Shared notebooks upload

[Tanjamuse 0]

Can someone please clarify if a notebook is shared from one user to another, on whose account does the note count if the person who the notebook is shared with creates a new note in that book?

 

Example, if a notebook is shared with me, and I create a new note in that notebook, would the note then count on my account of the 100.000 notes I can have or the original owner of the notebook?

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

The creator of the note has the size of the uploaded content counted against them. 

 

The key to remember is that it is an upload limit. If you didn't upload it, it doesn't count against you. That being said, as soon as you make a change to a note uploaded by someone else, uploading the updated version counts agains your limit. 

[Tanjamuse 0]

If someone shares a notebook with a lot of notes with me, does that amount of notes count against my total of 100.000 as wel?

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

My understanding is that it does not. That 100,000 limit is solely applied to content in notebooks you own.

So:

Upload limit is global and applies to any content you upload regardless of whether it is in a notebook you own or not. 

Maximum note limit of 100,000 applies only to notes in notebooks you own. 
 

Some related discussion:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34227-total-account-limit/

[Tanjamuse 0]

I did see that thread, but I was unsure of whether or not it still applied. Thank you for clearing some things up for me

[RightPaddock 34]

My understanding is that it does not. That 100,000 limit is solely applied to content in notebooks you own.

So:

Upload limit is global and applies to any content you upload regardless of whether it is in a notebook you own or not. 

Maximum note limit of 100,000 applies only to notes in notebooks you own. 

 

Some related discussion:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34227-total-account-limit/

 

Scott can you tell me if the volume limits (number of notebooks, number of notes, note size) include local notebooks - i.e. could I have 1,000 local note books with a 1,000,000 notes

 

Update : I think I found my answer https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/43783-do-notes-in-local-notebook-count-against-total-account-note-limit/#entry232984

 

...notes in local notebooks do not count towards your maximum number of notes, and local notebooks do not count against your total number of synced notebooks. You can have as many notes in local notebooks as you would like

 

 

 

That's almost 2 years old - would it be safe to assume it holds true today.

 

Yes I know I am responsible for backing it up. I don't rely on applications for backup, I have a single 'unified' back up regime that caters for all my data.

 

Thanks RP

[Tanjamuse 0]

I looked at my database via the SQLite browser, and I can see a note from a notebook that someone has shared with me count in the note_attr. Wouldn't that mean that it counts as one of my 100.000 notes? And if it doesn't, how do I then keep track of how many notes I would have left?

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

 

My understanding is that it does not. That 100,000 limit is solely applied to content in notebooks you own.

So:

Upload limit is global and applies to any content you upload regardless of whether it is in a notebook you own or not. 

Maximum note limit of 100,000 applies only to notes in notebooks you own. 

 

Some related discussion:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/34227-total-account-limit/

 

Scott can you tell me if the volume limits (number of notebooks, number of notes, note size) include local notebooks - i.e. could I have 1,000 local note books with a 1,000,000 notes

 

Update : I think I found my answer https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/43783-do-notes-in-local-notebook-count-against-total-account-note-limit/#entry232984

 

...notes in local notebooks do not count towards your maximum number of notes, and local notebooks do not count against your total number of synced notebooks. You can have as many notes in local notebooks as you would like

 

 

 

That's almost 2 years old - would it be safe to assume it holds true today.

 

Yes I know I am responsible for backing it up. I don't rely on applications for backup, I have a single 'unified' back up regime that caters for all my data.

 

Thanks RP

 

I don't think anything has changed. Local notebooks and notes within them are not counted against your limits. 

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

I looked at my database via the SQLite browser, and I can see a note from a notebook that someone has shared with me count in the note_attr. Wouldn't that mean that it counts as one of my 100.000 notes? And if it doesn't, how do I then keep track of how many notes I would have left?

1) I don't know the answer because I don't know how Evernote structures their database to know what the "count" property means or how it is used. 

2) You can see your note count in the sidebar of Evernote. While this would include both notebooks you own and notebooks shared with you, if you are approaching 100,000 you can bet you're fairly close to the limit, depending on the proportion of notebooks you own versus those shared with you. Or, in the Notebook screen, you can manually tally the note counts in each notebook you own, since those are displayed next to the notebook name. 

 

100,000 notes is an awful lot of notes. I've seen only a couple of people in this community even come close, though I am sure MANY more than that are out there in the wild, I still think they are very much edge cases. I'm not justifying the 100,000 limit, just saying I think it requires a fair bit of effort to even approach that and in all likelihood you'll encounter the widely discussed performance issues (not to mention potential local storage limitations, depending on your computer's HD/SSD capacity) before you reach 100,000. 

If you get to the 100,000 point, there are some clumsy workarounds. 

[Tanjamuse 0]

What would those be?

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

What would those be?

Are you asking about workarounds?

1) Create a second account and share notes between them.

2) Select older notes and export them to .enex files for archiving/long-term storage

3) More masses of notes to a local notebook where they don't count against your quota. 

 

 

None of these are elegant, most of them mean you are limiting the accessibility of the notes you are sloughing off, and they all introduce the possibility of losing data (e.g., local notebooks are less robust since there is no remote storage of them). 

 

Have you reached, or are you approaching 100,000 notes?

[RightPaddock 34]

ScottLougheed, on 15 May 2015 - 11:30 PM, said:

    I don't think anything has changed. Local notebooks and notes within them are not counted against your limits.

Thanks Scott

 

All Evernote does is to keep a current replica of a database on its servers  - that is not backup.  Backup should allow me to restore a database to a known point in time - eg COB last Tuesday.  This may be in Evernote 4 Business - but I for one wouldn't put my money it.  The notion that Evernote online is adequate backup is IMO a fallacy.  It does not afford me any protection against my own mistakes.  My experience is that data loss/corruption is most frequently caused by user error - and in these days of point, click, swipe, pinch etc the propensity for such errors is multiplied.    .

 

Re Notes counts in left sidebar etc - I can only see the number of notes in each notebook - I have to get a calculator out and accumulate the notebook counts to get a total note count - most of us can't add up 3 three-digit numbers in our heads - let alone a say 150.

 

On the issue of limits - If ones notes are being sourced from a  known archive that contains a million items then one would probably do some planning to determine how one might partition the million items over multiple accounts - with no more than 250 notebooks and 100,000 notes in each account.  I suspect Tanjamuse might be at that stage.

 

RP

[Tanjamuse 0]

Are you asking about workarounds?

1) Create a second account and share notes between them.

2) Select older notes and export them to .enex files for archiving/long-term storage

3) More masses of notes to a local notebook where they don't count against your quota. 

 

What good is the first option if the notes count on both accounts?

 

The second option isn't useful for me, since I need to access them online. Which goes for the third option as well.

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

 

Are you asking about workarounds?

1) Create a second account and share notes between them.

2) Select older notes and export them to .enex files for archiving/long-term storage

3) More masses of notes to a local notebook where they don't count against your quota. 

 

What good is the first option if the notes count on both accounts?

 

The second option isn't useful for me, since I need to access them online. Which goes for the third option as well.

 

We've established that shared files only count against the owner, have we not? 

 

As for the utility of 2 and 3, is it really the case that you need immediate access to all 100,000 notes at all times? Is it not possible that at least several thousand or more are no longer of immediate use? Either way, I understand that this is far from ideal because of course, you'd never know if you need access until you do, and you realize they're archived by either means, and then you're stuck. However, as I said, these are workarounds, and they aren't elegant. I didn't promise they worked well, or worked for everyone!

 

Have your reached, or are you approaching 100,000 notes? 

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

 

ScottLougheed, on 15 May 2015 - 11:30 PM, said:

    I don't think anything has changed. Local notebooks and notes within them are not counted against your limits.

Thanks Scott

 

All Evernote does is to keep a current replica of a database on its servers  - that is not backup.  Backup should allow me to restore a database to a known point in time - eg COB last Tuesday.  This may be in Evernote 4 Business - but I for one wouldn't put my money it.  The notion that Evernote online is adequate backup is IMO a fallacy.  It does not afford me any protection against my own mistakes.  My experience is that data loss/corruption is most frequently caused by user error - and in these days of point, click, swipe, pinch etc the propensity for such errors is multiplied.    .

 

 

 

Not sure why this is relevant to the present discussion, but you are right. Evernote is not a backup, itself, nor is it easy to backup the database or restore individual components of that database. Local notebooks are especially vulnerable because unlike synced notebooks they exist in only one place (and a hard-to-backup place at that), so if something goes awry locally (such as a hard disk failure) they're toast (Except for any backups you may have made). While syncing to evernote is not backup, it does prevent against loss due to a local hardware failure. 

I personally never use local notebooks because there are too many documented issues on these forums with either data loss (because of a local failure) or accidental syncing of local content (due, often, to user error, but still, not a chance I want to take, since I am a user and thus, could potentially err). 

 

 

 

 

Re Notes counts in left sidebar etc - I can only see the number of notes in each notebook - I have to get a calculator out and accumulate the notebook counts to get a total note count - most of us can't add up 3 three-digit numbers in our heads - let alone a say 150.

 

 

Yes, it is a bit of a chore to do this calculation, especially if you have lots of notebooks. I never suggested it could be done in your head, a calculator is probably necessary. But, this isn't a daily task so hopefully the one time every blue moon you have to do this to determine where you are at isn't to terrible to bear.  

 

 

 

On the issue of limits - If ones notes are being sourced from a  known archive that contains a million items then one would probably do some planning to determine how one might partition the million items over multiple accounts - with no more than 250 notebooks and 100,000 notes in each account.  I suspect Tanjamuse might be at that stage.

 

RP

 

 

Tanjamuse hasn't given us any information at all in order to make even a remotely informed assumption about where they are at in terms of these limits. 

That being said, yes, regardless of where your data are coming from or what the contents are, planning is necessary, especially when you are working with numbers that, from the start, are encroaching on Evernote's limits. 

 

If I was doing the type of serious work involving archiving potentially 'millions' of items, I'd be reluctant to make Evernote my weapon of choice not the least because the various account limits would immediately pose a challenge, but also because, as you point out, there are challenges with ensuring the integrity of the data. If I had that type of data coming in, I'd do a bit of extra research to find the tool best suited to the task. The account limits of Evernote immediately preclude Evernote's use if you're talking "millions" of documents. 

[RightPaddock 34]

@ScottLougheed - You can change the location of where EN keeps its data via Tools->Options->General.  To backup the data just backup everything in the location that the Open Database Folder link opens

 

I suspect it defaults to somewhere in %appdata% which by default is on the %systemdrive%.  Personally I try to keep data off a system drive.  Preferably onto a separate physical device or at least another partition.  I've done that for decades - and I do incremental backup of all my data every day.  Know what - I have never lost more than a days work.  I fact not even that, where I can I take intra-day snapshots of changes.  Christopher Mayo has an excellent blog post on Evernote backups - its Mac-centric, but just as doable on Windows or Linux ==>> Your Backups and the Zombie Apocalypse

 

I suspect the EN limits are arbitrary - why 250 notebooks and not 256, why a 100 tags per note (apart from, to have that many even, is daft).  The only limit that makes any sense is the 255 character limit on Note Titles.  I only know of one computer that 'worked' in powers of 10; the Singer System 10, and that was 30+ years ago. 

 

My million was probably a bit over the top,  But that said, my newsreader collects about 300-500 'items' a day off the web.  If I kept them all and stored them in Evernote (which I've considered doing) I would exceed the 100,000 limit is less than 12 months.  Why would I keep the text and not the links.  Example - when the German reserve bank (Deutsche Bundesbank) changed their website a few years ago a lot of stuff disappeared.   Wading through web page archives is painful and a hit-and-miss affair at the best of times, and when it's in a foreign language - excruciatingly so - I gave up after a few days.

 

So apart from Evernote, are you aware of other products of a similar nature, that 1) will run on desktops and tablets, and 2) is not targeted at large corporations with deep pockets and lots of on tap IT expertise 3) is 'big' enough to not disappear in a puff of smoke next month.  OneNote is a possibility but IMO its Android and IOS incarnations are too 'immature'.

 

RP

[ScottLougheed 1,316]

@ScottLougheed - You can change the location of where EN keeps its data via Tools->Options->General.  To backup the data just backup everything in the location that the Open Database Folder link opens

 

I suspect it defaults to somewhere in %appdata% which by default is on the %systemdrive%.  Personally I try to keep data off a system drive.  Preferably onto a separate physical device or at least another partition.  I've done that for decades - and I do incremental backup of all my data every day.  Know what - I have never lost more than a days work.  I fact not even that, where I can I take intra-day snapshots of changes.  Christopher Mayo has an excellent blog post on Evernote backups - its Mac-centric, but just as doable on Windows or Linux ==>> Your Backups and the Zombie Apocalypse

Yes, on windows you can change the location of the local database, but this is not possible on Mac, which is the platform I use. This is not terribly important from a backup standpoint, it can get backed up regardless of its location. I have never found myself needed to change the location of my local database.

 

Yes, Chris Mayo's post is great. I personally have no problems with backups. I have a robust backup strategy. The challenge with respect to backups and Evernote I referred to was related to the fact that it is not possible to restore individual notes or notebooks. You can only ever restore the entire database. Incremental backups makes this less of an issue, but depending on the amount of work you do between increments, and the trouble that required you to restore from the backup, the whole-databse-recovery can be a bit onerous. 

 

I suspect the EN limits are arbitrary - why 250 notebooks and not 256, why a 100 tags per note (apart from, to have that many even, is daft).  The only limit that makes any sense is the 255 character limit on Note Titles.  I only know of one computer that 'worked' in powers of 10; the Singer System 10, and that was 30+ years ago. 

I don't think this is up for debate. I think it is arbitrary, but also established in the interest of limiting server load and the use of other resources. I'm sure they're being extraordinarily conservative in their choices. Only Evernote can really tell though 

 

 

 

My million was probably a bit over the top,  But that said, my newsreader collects about 300-500 'items' a day off the web.  If I kept them all and stored them in Evernote (which I've considered doing) I would exceed the 100,000 limit is less than 12 months.  Why would I keep the text and not the links.  Example - when the German reserve bank (Deutsche Bundesbank) changed their website a few years ago a lot of stuff disappeared.   Wading through web page archives is painful and a hit-and-miss affair at the best of times, and when it's in a foreign language - excruciatingly so - I gave up after a few days.

 

That is an interesting use case. Personally that type of automated bulk archiving is not something I would have a need for, but I can see how, if that was something you needed to do, would definitely overwhelm Evernote. Evernote is either not the right tool for you, or you should consider a different strategy that works better with the capacities of Evernote. 

 

 

 

 

So apart from Evernote, are you aware of other products of a similar nature, that 1) will run on desktops and tablets, and 2) is not targeted at large corporations with deep pockets and lots of on tap IT expertise 3) is 'big' enough to not disappear in a puff of smoke next month.  OneNote is a possibility but IMO its Android and IOS incarnations are too 'immature'.

 

RP

I don't you Windows, so I can't make any suggestions for that. My program of choice is DEVONThink Pro Office, which is Mac only. It offers many tools that suit my needs that Evernote does not offer, and also overcomes many of the limitations (e.g., scalability and arbitrary limits) or hurdles (e.g., my need to avoid cloud storage for much of my content) I've experienced with Evernote. 

For more discussion about alternatives, I'd suggest you take a look at:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/66103-power-user-discontent-best-alternatives-to-en/