4d4m

Ugh! Looks like I picked up the new UI in 10.76.

First noticed that I was only seeing 6 notes in the list in snippet view with EN in full screen (1080p). Then I noticed the unfeasible amount of wasted space on the notes. Open a note in a new window and 1/3 of the screen is taken up with title bars and metadata before the actual note text starts. And the note background in dark mode is pure black with no contrast with the surrounding. Horrible. 🤮  Not only does it look terrible, it's really bad for productivity.

Who signed off on this? I work for a digital consultancy. We have a lot of good UR/UX people on software projects and there's no way Evernote did proper user research.  If Bending Spoons want to email me, I'm sure we can help them out! 😂

Thanks, I've updated to 10.72 from the download page and it seems to be fixed.

52 minutes ago, agsteele said:

Please note everyone is talking about 10.72.2 where the fix has been released.

OK great. How/when do I get it?

#

19 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Seems to be fixed in Windows too...

Nope not fixed on 10.71.2 which Check for Updates reports as the latest version.

23 hours ago, 4d4m said:

Logged a ticket for what good it's likely to do...

For anyone else with this issue, my ticket number is 3814369. It might be worth quoting this as another instance of the same issue.

20 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Actually when I tried, I couldn't reproduce the "update view" behavior any more on 10.71.2 (Mac) and 10.65 (iOS) already.

Just tried it on my Macbook Air, 10.71.2 version and was able to reproduce it. It does seem either intermittent or depends on a permutation of conditions. It updated the edited date on a note from 21 Apr 2022 but not on one from 5 Apr 2022.  This was in a search list, it doesn't seem to have the issue on a regular list of notebook or stack contents.

17 hours ago, s2sailor said:

That is only my reading of the tea leaves.  There is likely more behind this.  I would recommend entering a support request.  The more they get reminded of this problem the greater the chance we have of getting it fixed.

Logged a ticket for what good it's likely to do...

This bug is "doing my head in" 

Today I was searching for notes of a meeting I had last summer, but wasn't sure when. It was mid June but at the time I thought it could have been any time from May to September. I searched on a keyword and started browsing the list. Every note I clicked on suddenly got a new updated date of today and promptly disappeared from view screen, as there were several hundred in the list they would have shot to the top but I'd scrolled halfway down. Very disruptive and disconcerting.  Now of course if I'm doing a similar search in the future, I can't just search through the rough date range of last updated, because a bunch are now incorrectly showing as Last edited on 16 Jan 2024 and will be near the top of the list. 

This does not happen on a list view for notes within a notebook or stack, but it does happen for search results.

I read the link posted above:

Quote

The first time a note is opened with the new RTE note system, it needs to pass through a conversion process and takes a couple of seconds to load. After this first time, notes should open and sync instantly.

So it would seem this on-demand process of conversion is tripping the updated field. But that does not explain why it doesn't happen when viewing notes within a notebook.

My concern is this is going to keep happening and every note that pre-dates this Real Time Editing change (about 5k in my case) is at some point going to have its metadata screwed up. Bye bye history.

Of course now since v6 I can't manually fix those notes as in their infinite wisdom Evernote have removed the ability to do so. 

This really strengthens my resolve to jump ship. I already did so, to Joplin, cancelling my sub earlier this year, to beat the price rises. I only came back because Joplin doesn't allow multiple note windows to be open and doesn't have a choice of view in the note list (only showing title), and as I kept getting 40% off offers on the free tier nag screens.

On 1/10/2024 at 3:14 PM, PinkElephant said:

Don’t expect this to happen ever.

The updated field is under system control. It shouldn’t update just on viewing (as it does recently), but apart from this making it editable is just an idea out of the box with the mothballs.

If you want to set a marker, use a tag.

As has been mentioned several times before, the ability to edit updated date existed in prior versions for many years.  At least since I started using it in 2012. It was in v5, v6 and Legacy. I was using the feature until Legacy got canned

So it's not some weird off the wall idea, it's a feature that was in the product, heavily used and deemed important by those that use it. Then was removed in v10 without explanation and no explanation why it's not going to return.

@Mike P Yes the metadata update issue is a dependency for the ability to edit the date. The editability may be a design choice (a poor one IMHO), but the metadata update issue is either a bug itself or an unforeseen consequence of an ill thought out change.

21 minutes ago, Mike P said:

That's assuming it is broken. The ability to change the update date is fairly pointless given that a whole lot of actions trigger an update - moving notebook, adding tags etc etc. It's therefore very unlikley that the update date a user chose would survive for very long. This can obviously be changed (and people have asked for that) but I'm just pointing out that it is not as simple as it might seem and requires a change in what constitutes an update which may well have other consequences.

I don't agree, it was a feature offered for years up to and including Legacy and it's a valid use case used by a lot of their customers that I think Evernote have dropped the ball on. They removed it in v10; either consciously removed it from the feature list, or as v10 was a ground-up rearchitecting they neglected to include in the feature list. 

The bit I've highlighted is another issue; a behaviour that they have changed in v10.  Changing metadata like tags and notebook should not update the "Updated Date" which should apply just to note content. I think the fact changes to metadata started to effect a change in update date only since v10 has driven more people to try to edit the updated date.

On 2/10/2022 at 5:55 AM, Mike P said:

Surely the ability to change the update date was already a work around for what you really want which seems to be a customisable way of sorting your notes. I've always been concerned about the ability to artificially change both creation and update date because at some stage I will want to know when the note really was creatred or updated. The easiest way of creating a customisable sort system is with the note title. Just include some digits before the main part of the title - you can even have an 8 digit representation of a date for old times sake.

Depending on the database used there should be an internal, immutable creation date and maybe a last modified one too but that isn't the point. The main point for a notes app is it implements a flexible filing system that users can tweak to their own needs. If you had a card filing system and you reviewed a note for a meeting last month and corrected an error, you wouldn't then file it back with today's notes.

In an ideal world I'd want to know when it was actually created and last modified, when it was last viewed and one or more significant custom dates, all viewable, searchable and orderable in the list.

I'd settle for how it used to be, an immutable creation date and an editable updated date.

On 1/19/2022 at 3:46 AM, blakesphere said:

Do we have an official response from the Evernote dev team?

I often edit notes for typos, formatting. I do not want them to bubble to the top.

The Windows legacy client allowed this.

Now the new products don't.

I too find it odd that the Created date can be revised but not both in the new products.

I worry this is philosophical (but again, why give access to any date?).

Will this field be opened up? If not, I'm going to have to figure out a different way to sort.

Which will surely be a hack.

So, any new news?

 

I've raised this as a ticket for what good it will do. 3 years after v10 it's still not fixed.

I've also opened a ticket on this. When v10 came out it was missing, together with the ability to edit Created Date, so I went straight back to Legacy. 3 years on, although created date has been made editable, updated date has not. If anything the opposite would make more sense, but many of the functionality decisions on v10 don't make sense to me.

As to should this metadata be editable, ideally there would be user editable metadata and non-user editable metadate such as ActualCreatedDate and ActualUpdatedDate.

I also prefix notes such as meeting notes or journal entries with a yyyy-mm-dd stamp so whatever happens to the metadata at least I can order in the actual chronological order.

20 hours ago, agsteele said:

I really don't have time to do the research for you. There have been many discussions of the issue. Is it right or wrong? Options to workaround. Why does it work this way now as opposed to the way it worked in the so-called Legacy apps. There has been no reason presented by Evernote for this way of working.  So you'll need to search in the forums or with your favourite search engine(s) and see what you can haul in.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. It wasn't a case of doing "my research for me" but as you'd obviously read many such posts I thought you might be able to quickly link one. In any case I think I misinterpreted your post slightly.

I took  "The reasons why the updated cannot be manually changed have been discussed many times in other threads" to mean there was a definitive answer from Evernote which has been stated and discussed many times, but what seems you meant is the fact that it cannot be changed has been discussed many times. The rest I've seen so far is speculation. And that leads me to another point

I realise that you and the other prolific posters are just users and not employees but it would be reasonable for someone coming onto a forum hosted on evernote.com to believe that posters tagged as Evernote Expert complete with the green Evernote logo might actually be speaking for the company, would it not?  This just raises the question why Evernote spokespeople are not posting on here. They don't seem very present and I have to say this doesn't give a great impression of prioritising customer satisfaction.

On 1/2/2024 at 4:36 PM, agsteele said:

It was resolved back in April but it seems has returned as an issue more recently. The reasons why the updated cannot be manually changed have been discussed many times in other threads.  I'd hope for a resolution on the substantive issue in the next release.

If you have links to a definitive source I'd appreciate it. My searching has turned up only one thread which didn't have a convincing reason; in summary not deemed a priority, which is very different to it can't be done at all. Especially when every version up to 6 (and 7 on Mac) and Legacy managed it perfectly fine. 

Also changing the updated date when tags are amended. To my mind this is just bad design. The note content is one thing, the tags are metadata, and these two things should be treated separately.

On 12/4/2023 at 8:45 PM, PinkElephant said:

EN desktop 10.67.4 positively solved the problem.

It's available for download from the EN website.

Nope, it's happening for me on Windows client (updated yesterday, 10.68.3) and has always happened on v10. This is one reason why I ran Legacy until forced onto v10. Other reasons include not being able to manually change the updated date.

Happens when just clicking on the note in the list, not even clicking into the note window, really annoying and wreaks havoc with my mental system

@John in Michigan USA you're right about the amount of help support has been, but fortunately doing the un-batched sync and turning on all the logging details enabled me to fix my database.  I was able to narrow the search to two notes with attached PDFs.  One PDF appeared to be corrupted and one was on the large side; but not excessively so and I couldn't see anything wrong with it.  It was viewable both in Evernote and a couple of other viewers.

Removing these two fixed it, but only after deleting and recreating the database exb file and all index files.  I might try to re-add the large PDF from the export to see if that was actually problematic or a red herring.

I'd love to know why these notes were fine on all other versions but 6.25., but the main thing is I can again use (a usable version of) Evernote on my work laptop. 

As a one time developer my suspicion would be they've implemented stricter validation of some sort in this version.

Just looking at some of the options under the extended help menu (CTRL-click Help) and noticed Enable HTTP Request Batching.

Hmmm, I wonder.  That should help identify the suspect.  The sync is going to take a while though.

I've got a ticket open with support for this issue at the moment but just throwing it out to the hive mind, as we've tried a few things without success.

I've got a new work laptop (a Dell XPS 9310) on which I've installed the Legacy client, but it will not complete a sync.  It gets to roughly the last 200 notes and then gives the red sync icon.  It syncs "inward" (i.e. note changes done on other clients appear in the app) but not "outward" (no new notes or edits from this machine go out).

I use Evernote on several other devices: another windows PC with 6.25.1 (green icon, pre "Legacy" tag), a Macbook with Legacy 7.14.  My previous work laptop was a Macbook with the last green icon 7.x client (can't remember the version) and that worked fine.  There are no sync issues with iOS or Web.  I've had the 10.x client on this machine with no sync issues either... just the multiple and well documented issues that make me want to stay with the legacy desktop clients for now.

So, assuming most other folks with 6.25.2 on Win 10 are ok, there must be some change in this version that conflicts with something in one of my 4000+ notes.

Here's a log excerpt.  It's always that same error message, and always just after an INFO event saying  "96% Submitting a batch of 70 note calls, size=7.6 MB"

14:35:47.782 [INFO   ] [2052] [29184] 96% Submitting a batch of 70 note calls, size=7.6 MB
14:35:47.931 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [25664] 96% CSyncThreadPool::OnPooledThreadFinished: 0d1f3b68
14:35:47.931 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [25664] CAppController::OnENThreadEnding: Ending thread [25664] threadPoolThread
14:35:48.681 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [29184] CGoogleAnalyticsBasicEvent::ctor: crash EDAMSystemException NoteStore:getResource 
14:35:48.681 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [29184] CGoogleAnalyticsExceptionEvent::ctor: EDAMSystemException:%201529a327fa885059ab9844ac0f368b12%20(4)
14:35:48.681 [ERROR  ] [2052] [29184] 96% EDAMSystemException: errorCode=INTERNAL_ERROR message="1529a327fa885059ab9844ac0f368b12"
14:35:48.681 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [29184] 96% CGetNotesDelegate::dtor: 1637df40
14:35:48.681 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [29184] 96% CSyncGetNotesTask::Run: FINISHED tid=7200
14:35:48.682 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncTaskList::WaitForAll: 17 tasks done, result: 0
14:35:48.682 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [29184] 96% CSyncThreadPool::OnPooledThreadFinished: 16227a18, syncGetNotesTask
14:35:48.683 [INFO   ] [2052] [5752] 96% Connecting account xxxxx
14:35:48.683 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CNoteStoreClient::CreateNoteStoreClient: shardId=s122
14:35:48.683 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CThriftTransportProvider::Get: REUSING 0948c6a0 1 www.evernote.com/edam/note/s122:443
14:35:48.683 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncTaskList::WaitForAll: 17 tasks
14:35:48.683 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncTaskList::WaitForAll: 17 tasks done, result: 0
14:35:48.914 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncAccountDelegate::SaveSyncUploaded: syncState.uploaded: 3317443 bytes
14:35:48.916 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncAccountTask::Run: FINISHED tid=1678
14:35:48.917 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncAccountDelegate::dtor: 17898378
14:35:48.918 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncAccountTask::dtor: 0d2a9b18
14:35:48.918 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [5752] 96% CSyncThreadPool::OnPooledThreadFinished: 0d1fd790, syncAccountTask
14:35:48.930 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [24828] 0% CBaseController::OnBaseTranCommitted: C:\Users\xxxx\Evernote\Databases\xxxx.exb
14:35:48.930 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [24828] 0% CSyncClientTask::Run: FINISHED tid=60fc
14:35:48.930 [DEBUG  ] [2052] [24828] CSyncController::OnSyncClientTaskStopped: flags=00000031
14:35:48.930 [INFO   ] [2052] [24828] Client synchronization finished, status: failed

The string in the INTERNAL_ERROR error message (and in the CGoogleAnalyticsExceptionEvent above) is obviously an object ID, presumably a note or attachment.  That string is the same every time (on 2 separate machines).

Any Evernote API gurus who can decipher this log?

If I could narrow down the problematic note it would help.  Or at least the 70 notes (or less, as it says 70 note calls) it's in, I could export and delete them one at a time, but I don't know the ordering.

On 12/17/2020 at 8:19 PM, jean jamin said:

It's very annoying when the Evernote CEO and Mr. Designer try to fool you, by basically only sharing their perspective https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nggD3PMO0EM Who uses 5 devices with different operating systems? This is presented as the major problem that had to be solved. Most use 1 device the most by far and occasionally watch through another device (no problem there). The fact that the user interface had to become more uniform was a problem for the manufacturer, not the user !! Everyone understands that this is a problem, but predominantly for the manufacturer! That great sacrifices had to be made from the user perspective for this is unforgivable to be honest. Make sure you only release something when it's all right and not a pale shadow of what I am used to as a user. But the worst part is that the gentlemen in their 'discussion' state for everything that is experienced as a problem that it only concerns 'a small percentage of the users' (tags for example) and that only that group finds it annoying that the tags were moved to the bottom. Everything that is a problem is made small and Mr. Designer goes to 'Polishing' as second step when the number of missing or poorly implemented functions is still enormous. After 12 years as a daily premium user and over 12000 notes, I am about to say goodbye to Evernote. I can endure too little too late, because I can still use the old app, but that they try to justify the fact that they are offending the most loyal users with a badly defective product is unacceptable.

I agree with most of what you say except "who uses 5 devices with different operating systems?"  Well, me for a start.  Currently I use 2 x MacOS, 2 x Windows, 2 x iPhone, 1 x iPad.  A mix of work and home devices  A couple of years ago I had no Macs but Android instead of the iPhone.  Then there's occasional use of web to look something up from another device (someone else's PC or a work VDI that's locked down etc). That's the 5, albeit I never had all 5 in use at the same time.  Unfortunately my phone was on auto-updates so that device is now committed to v10+.

As a software architect I fully understand the drive for convergence in terms of codebase, tech stack and UI.  However in the process to throw away basic taken-for-granted features of the core apps is not on.  There's no reason why using Electron per se should necessitate any of that.  It's probably just the opportunity cost of (re)building those in the new codebase vs "shiny new" features.  It might be their strategy is move (nearly) everyone to 10 then implement the features that most people cry about losing, while keeping Legacy around to try to avoid losing those who would jump ship and can't wait.   

It's a little disingenuous if that's the case though.  I'd much prefer them to be totally upfront about this.  An admission that they made a couple of mistakes in deprioritising these features would help a lot.

Personally I'm still playing wait and see, sticking with 6.25 Windows and 7.14 or Legacy on Mac.  Crunch time is September when my premium renewal is up.  I need some pretty good assurances before stumping up another year, though since Notion blew it by not having offline notebook access the hunt is still on.

Oh FFS!  Well I've just registered on Notion, and it's looking EXTREMELY promising.  Much more flexibility and the web version is really slick.  Dark mode ls luscious.  Evernote import is churning away and...

It. Is. Keeping. My. Notebook. Structure. AND. Tags. Intact!  ❤️

And the free personal account has no limits on numbers of notes!  Noice!

But then I install the Mac desktop version and it look identical to the web version.  OK that's fairly standard for modern apps these days.  Oh... hang on... if it's a local version of the web app what about offline note access?  Quick google:

https://www.notion.so/How-can-I-use-Notion-offline-de55148f97c84de3b6e71aa058906be4

Quote

 

If you need to access certain pages when you go offline, open the pages you want while you're still online and keep them open. This will allow Notion to cache the pages for offline editing. We'll sync all changes you make across your devices when you go back online.

We know there's a ways to go on this 😅Improvements to offline support are in progress!

 

Yes that's right.  Open the pages you want while you're still online.  Is that the best you can do FFS!  💔

Sooo I'm in major rant mode now.  Why the absolute feck can't developers of note apps get the frikin basics right?  Full offline access to 100% of your data without having to pre-prepare,  intuitive tagging, sorting by title, date created, date modified and lightning fast searching.   Stuff that Evernote used to do well

I've been an Evernote user since 2012 and a premium subscriber since 2014.  I use the Mac client (v7) on my work machine, two home Windows machines on 6.25, my phone (iOS) and iPad Pro.  I've been using Mac at work since July and been loving the dark mode.  The functionality seems to have some odd omissions versus the Windows client but nothing I couldn't live with.  I came to this post after googling for the copy/paste issue from Outlook, which for a while I thought was user error (I've been getting used to MacOS keyboard shortcuts) or a setting.

So I didn't even know there was a v10 version until googling.  I got excited for a minute or two... then I started reading the feedback and got worried. 

I've got 3700+ notes , about 3000 of which are work related.  I'm very concerned about the time and effort involved in migrating them to another platform, and the cognitive effort to get used to it.  I just don't have the time for that right now!  A while back I tried to migrate to OneNote due to restrictions on my old Win 10 work laptop, and it was a disaster.  The import mangles the notebook stack/notebook/note structure and doesn't do multiple tagging!   

So I'm now thinking I'll have to find something else.  I'm yet to find something that meets my requirements.  Having recently paid my yearly subscription I've now got just under a year to research and switch.  UNLESS some of the things I'm reading here change!  No local notes?? That's ridiculous! My internet is pretty good but if I couldn't refer to my notes during an outage it would be disastrous!  The web version is ok as a backup if I'm on a different device but isn't a suitable platform for the main reference.  This might be the kick I needed to spend some time rolling my own.