(Archived) EN Contradictions

[Daly_de_Gagne 4]

I have sort of a love/hate thing going with EN.

On one hand I am using EN 3 now a great deal for collecting information, primarily from the web, and to house my PDF collection.

All good stuff.

I can see where recent changes in the program make swift and reliable collection possible.

And that makes it more and more likely that some of us will get some incredibly large collections of thousands and thousands of items.

So...who was the person or persons at EN who thought that while adding this enhanced and new capabilities it would make sense to remove some of the existing ability the program has to organize information?

That's the major EN contradiction, and folks on the forum have been addressing it for a couple of years. And not getting much satisfaction.

For example, to handle large amounts of information, we need the...

...former way of working with tags...

...templates...

that we used to have.

And we need easier to read tag lists, not an overly light shade of grey that is hard on some eyes.

We need ways to break up our data bases so it isn't all in one data based. As it is now, EN opens only data base, and if your subject range is very detailed, or extensive, or both, you end up with an overly long list of tags.

Sub notebooks would help.

But, as programs such as MyInfo and Surfulater have shown, it is possible and useful to have multiple data bases, with tabs allowing you to switch among the data bases, WhizFolders, a great program for writers, allows multiple outlines to be open, with one window being an index of what is open at the moment.

It is time to put emphasis back on how do we organize and process all of this data that EN makes it so easy to capture.

Surfulater gives a choice of folders or tags. But it makes it so easy to create clones of an item for placing in multiple folders the folders serve essentially as tags. The folder list is at the left hand side of the item window, and items can be directly assigned to them.

And as I write this, Zoot is moving quickly ahead with its version 6 beta, and may end up offering most of what most people here would want in terms of collecting, organizing, creating metadata columns, using smart folders, searching and tags, etc.

Guess the moral of the story is that if you're going to make it so ridiculously easy to capture material, it makes sense to also provide the means for organizing it really well.

Daly

[efforting 0]

I think the idea of multiple databases is absolutely a great idea. Grouping and keeping my databases separate from each other would go a long way helping me to keep my sanity.

[Daly_de_Gagne 4]

I think the idea of multiple databases is absolutely a great idea. Grouping and keeping my databases separate from each other would go a long way helping me to keep my sanity.

Thanks for the support on this.

Trying to do everything in one database, given the tools at hand, is indeed crazy-making.

Daly

[Daly_de_Gagne 4]

I think the idea of multiple databases is absolutely a great idea. Grouping and keeping my databases separate from each other would go a long way helping me to keep my sanity.

Thanks for the support on this.

Trying to do everything in one database, given the tools at hand, is indeed crazy-making.

Daly

To add to my thought, I'd say it is time to start reflecting on how we handle information within EN as much as it is on collecting everything from everywhere, and being able to run on every platform.

It is not enough just to have a bigger and easier to use box.

We have to work with what is in the box.

Daly

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

And sometimes, the boxes get old & start to rot & you need to get a new box.

I would suggest EN stop giving their software away for free. Give a free trial version & after the end of the trial, game over, unless you purchase it. Include a year's worth of storage in the initial price & the cloud fee would be renewable at the end of each year. Then maybe people would quit bitching & moaning about what the software doesn't do & either learn to work with it or move on to another program. Rarely have I seen a message board where so many have complained about what a program doesn't do. I'm thinking it's because most of the software I use is payware. So if you've trialed it & then paid for it, I guess people are less apt to complain so much b/c by handing your money over to them, you've accepted the software as it is. And if you don't like the future upgrades, you don't get them. You just use the software until it no longer works b/c of hardware or OS limitations & move on to something else. (Because any good, successful software is going to evolve & change b/c that's the nature of all things computer.)

[Daly_de_Gagne 4]

And sometimes, the boxes get old & start to rot & you need to get a new box.

I would suggest EN stop giving their software away for free. Give a free trial version & after the end of the trial, game over, unless you purchase it. Include a year's worth of storage in the initial price & the cloud fee would be renewable at the end of each year. Then maybe people would quit bitching & moaning about what the software doesn't do & either learn to work with it or move on to another program. Rarely have I seen a message board where so many have complained about what a program doesn't do. I'm thinking it's because most of the software I use is payware. So if you've trialed it & then paid for it, I guess people are less apt to complain so much b/c by handing your money over to them, you've accepted the software as it is. And if you don't like the future upgrades, you don't get them. You just use the software until it no longer works b/c of hardware or OS limitations & move on to something else. (Because any good, successful software is going to evolve & change b/c that's the nature of all things computer.)

The problem is that there isn't much out there that does the heavy lifting of people doing serious information processing on the net. EN is among the best, but that doesn't mean it is perfect, and it doesn't mean it can't be a hell of a lot better.

I have upgraded for the year, so don't that I am getting a free ride.

As for the bloody arrogant way you have dismissed anyone who dares to offer criticisms, that's what forums are for.

Also, there was a time when the product did some of that better than it now does.

Daly

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Also, there was a time when the product did some of that better than it now does.

That would depend, of course, on who you are talking to.

[Daly_de_Gagne 4]

Also, there was a time when the product did some of that better than it now does.

That would depend, of course, on who you are talking to.

We agree.

And many of those people have made their voices heard here.

And they have documented their concerns.

It is time for EN to wake up and listen - because it is painting itself into a corner.

By making it so easy to collect information sooner or later there will be demand for the kinds of enhancements and return of features that some of us have been talking about.

When Zoot 6 comes out of beta, it will have the collection and info management aspects down cold - for those who do not need the cloud or multiplatform capability, it will be a time to decide whether to stay or to go.

I like the cloud because it is synchronized backup of all my information - but he, I also have Mozy, so it isn't a deal breaker.

Daly

[dan7000 26]

When Zoot 6 comes out of beta, it will have the collection and info management aspects down cold - for those who do not need the cloud or multiplatform capability, it will be a time to decide whether to stay or to go.

Oh, man. That was a good one. I think I read this same comment on a message board 4 years ago. Still waiting.

From the betas I have seen, Zoot doesn't even fully support rich text. Let alone quick and easy collection of fully formatted web pages (with inline images) like EN does. Or drag and drop collection of other file types into the body of notes. With EN, I can forward an email to EN from my blackberry and it shows up in my EN database on Windows with all attachments intact.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to play around with any new info management tool that I think could actually do serious and easy data collection and management -- which would include the features I mentioned above -- but I don't really ever seriously anticipate Zoot to be such a tool. I would love to be proven wrong.

[Daly_de_Gagne 4]

When Zoot 6 comes out of beta, it will have the collection and info management aspects down cold - for those who do not need the cloud or multiplatform capability, it will be a time to decide whether to stay or to go.

Oh, man. That was a good one. I think I read this same comment on a message board 4 years ago. Still waiting.

From the betas I have seen, Zoot doesn't even fully support rich text. Let alone quick and easy collection of fully formatted web pages (with inline images) like EN does. Or drag and drop collection of other file types into the body of notes. With EN, I can forward an email to EN from my blackberry and it shows up in my EN database on Windows with all attachments intact.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to play around with any new info management tool that I think could actually do serious and easy data collection and management -- which would include the features I mentioned above -- but I don't really ever seriously anticipate Zoot to be such a tool. I would love to be proven wrong.

Well bro, wake up and smell the coffee. Be prepared to be proven wrong.

Zoot 6, two versions since you last checked in if it was four years ago, is in beta.

It has a built-in browser.

The Zooter will capture web pages and plug them into Zoot.

Zoot 6 is fully revised and up to the minute in technology.

I am beta testing Zoot 6.

Daly