SWSL

Anyway, the survey prompted me to consider and I wanted to put something positive out on the forum.  If they see it, fine.   Don't want to just complain all the time!  

Interesting that the surveys vary from user to user.  Mine asked about a dozen things.  Speed, interface, etc.  Noted improvements over the last 3 or 6 months, I forget. 

I went to take the survey and found that it is asking if we have noticed improvements (in V10) in recent months - basically since BS started improving things.  

But I was using legacy up until the last month or so and can't compare V10 1/23 to V10 1/24.

What I can say however is that before, I didn't like using V10, especially the Android version 18 months ago when I tested it.  It seemed slow and buggy.

Now since I got pushed onto V10 I really like it.  I think that it has matured into a good product. 

Thanks BS!  Product rocks! 

Now I would love it if you can find a way to offer a more affordable subscription level.  As noted before.  Sliding scale with low income proof or reduced but workable feature set level for those who have smaller budgets. 

Cheers

@Wandering Reborn:  You make some assumptions to arrive at your conclusion that there are no options possible besides double or nothing.  But after watching several rounds of subscription structure and pricing changes over the years and seeing how these things vary with other products,  I am not convinced that the pricing structure of the moment is the only sustainable option. 

We will see how the new owners' thinking about their product and market evolves.  They may have hit on a good balance just as you believe.   As I tried to say, there are many ways to skin this cat and each has it's trade-offs.  

3 hours ago, Wanderling Reborn said:

... existing paying customers are already paying, why provide them with an option to pay less ? 

 

Actually, many long term customers have been paying in at now eliminated levels.  When our renewals come up and our cost rises significantly, there will be some who are not big users or don't have enough disposable income that opt out unless there is a workable option.  

As far as server usage goes, monthly upload limits has been one of the ways to distinguish levels from the start.  And, as most of us know, many many apps and programs offer good utility for a regular plan while locking out cool features that business, power and/or high income users will not want to miss out on.  

There is always a decision with a business about pricing.  Do you price higher and make more on fewer users or do you price lower and depend more on economy of scale.  In this product servers are not the only expense.   Management, maintenance, development. initial buyout etc. all contribute to the cost of the service and these can lower per user as numbers go up.  

Again, I'm seeing many corporations dealing with this so that they can have it both ways.  They get the most out of customers who have the money to pay premium while offering a good enough product for those who might be otherwise excluded from the customer base.   An example is cell service.  Post pay cell service in the US is very expensive but you get priority and support.   The same companies also now run somewhat separate prepay businesses that use the same network but deprioritize data and minimize customer support.  It works.  Everybody gets what they can afford and the companies get more business off the same network. 

45 minutes ago, gazumped said:

OK - I'll accept that - as long as everyone understand the answer (to the corolla question) is 'no'...

So the level/price structuring is final then?   I imagined that they are still sorting things out as they redefine the levels.   Are you with management or perhaps have a good line of communication with BS ?  

59 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I think this misstates the point some people are making. It's more like "The free ride was great. I understand it can't last forever. I can't afford the Rolls, or even the F-150. Could I please have a Corolla?"

Well said.  But it goes beyond the "free ride" dismissal.   Many of us have paid in consistently over many years, supporting the company and turning on others to EN;  it was hardly a free ride.   Still, at some price point, cost is an issue. 

It's not even "could you make a Corolla for us little guys? "  It's more like "Hey, you got me to try your automobile invention and after a decade I have become accustomed to having a car - it is really a fine way to get around.  But then you added so many features  (or maybe cars were always subsidized and the price was artificially low, but anyway)  now it's looking like my only option is a high-priced luxury car.  But me, I don't really need all the luxury, I just need a car.  It sure would be nice if you could offer something dialed back and more affordable for our market segment.   Maybe it would even help your bottom line!"

Personally, I use EN enough so that I will drop Amazon prime or something as EN gets more expensive.  I depend on this system and it's important to me.  I don't really care about most of the added features but now that they are part of the package, I don't seem to have a choice.   Leather seats or no seats? OK, looks like I'll be paying for leather. 

I used to ski and would see this with the smaller resorts.  They would have a nice mountainside with 4 good lifts.  Affordable. good skiing. Plenty of vertical.  Short lines.  Then they opened another area, built more parking lots, more lifts, then lodges, more development.  Eventually, it's another big deal place that is crowded and charges top rates. Do I get to ski more?  No, actually the lines are longer so I skied less.  Eventually, I couldn't afford it anymore and stopped skiing.  I guess their business model worked for the investors anyway.  

It's an aspect of how the world works today - but I'm not a fan.

I am also concerned about the price change when mine renews from whatever the least expensive level was last called (Plus?) to what is it now, "Personal"?      I did see that BS is offering a student discount and wonder if there could also be a "retiree/low income" tier.  Amazon USA offers this for prime subscription and I was able to verify low income using a medicaid approval among other things.    

Just a thought.   If you are making good money etc, then new pricing is still affordable I suppose.  But if you are living on a very restricted (under 30K USD for us) income, it's a much higher percentage of the yearly budget than for a "middle-class"  60 -150K household.     I know, it sounds whiney and anyway, why would anybody with a low income need good tools, right?    But realistically, there are a lot of people who live like students and it's a market segment that could represent additional income as free gets phased out.  

To reiterate, I am a long time subscriber advocating for sliding scale pricing that covers more than just students.  Don't have to create a new tier, just offer vetted alternate billing schemes as already done with promotions.  Many companies do this on a case by case basis via their "customer retention" department and maybe BS will too.  But upfront would be best.

6 minutes ago, gazumped said:

On the search front - just search for words;  on desktop you'll see a list of hits,  and if the search word is in the title it will be highlighted.  Fancier searches are possible with Filters.

Thanks.  I just checked and search already looks clearer than I noticed the other day.  I must have been searching in a different mode, not sure.    Actually it's  quite easy to tell where I'm searching.  For some reason I have a grayed out filters option but nice to know that there is that possibility and it's improving just as I was hoping for.  

I came back to chime in that I've now switched to the v10.x  on the desktop and it's looking very good so far.   I forget the issues I saw before, but it seems to be working fine and the layout and interface is not feeling too clunky or complicated by feature gloat.  

I'm having a bit of trouble sorting out search  but I could never get the search in legacy to work well for me.  Seems like it's better now, I just need to sort out when it's searching what.  In that area, I would hope that we can eliminate the need for terms (like "intitle:"  and just have a priority that would put a result found in the title at the top or give a checkbox like most forums have.  

So, at this point, I feel like EN 10 is fully adequate and as good of a tool (for my use case!) as before.   Also hoping that my Android installations (especially tablet) will prove to function better as I poke at them now and then.

Now my only real concern is whether I can afford the ever-inflating pricing scheme.  They really need a low level tier to keep everyone in the fold, but paying.   I would vote for a lowish monthly upload limit as before.  I guess it may come down to choosing Netflix, Prime or EN, for those of us that have to live on a tighter budget.   There are SO many ongoing fees these days it's insane.   EN will win over Prime if they can offer anything close to the plus subscription cost. 

Anyway, as one who mostly reports issues, I wanted to put in a word or two on the positive here. 

23 minutes ago, gazumped said:

We're not support here - just other users

Oh, I know.  Probably that was an unnecessary comment on my part.  Not helpful.   

I'm not even looking for support, just sharing my experience.    Mostly I was just commiserating with the OP that for somebody on the go, when the app was upgraded and got difficult we just had to jump over to using the simple reliable Keep.   

But thanks-  Next time I have time, I will check into the app again on my various Android devices to see if I can use it now.  That would be great.  Better to come at it with a "half-full" approach instead of the "why is my glass suddenly half-empty"?  Haha.

Cheers

After I was forced into the Android update, the first time I actually needed it,  I want to take a photo note.  It kept freezing.   I finally saved the photo note in google Keep.    Repeated visits to EN android have mostly been painful, many steps to get where it should be easy, difficulty moving around in the app with interface decisions and overall, enough dysfunctionality so that I concluded to only have it on the phone for emergencies but to do anything I need access to in Keep.  

I have resigned myself to the new reduced functionality and no longer being able to depend on EN mobile app.  As long as the Windows client can keep working, it should be easier to deal with a poor interface on a bigger screen.   Still on legacy there - my red banner went away, not sure why.   But anyway, I will just download pdfs to my phone and put key info into into Keep or email as needed for reference.  Trying to adjust to what I am stuck with.  Too bad - it was so convenient before! 

That's my experience, but I suppose I'll be told that my experience is not valid because it works for you and I'm doing something wrong.   I don't know - I just wish it would work like it did before they fixed it.    Don't have time to fool around.   

3 hours ago, caineo said:

I get so many updates for activity on this thread! Surely that's some anecdotal indication that this is a missing quality of life feature that many people have been grinning and bearing for years. 😅

Me too.  I'm need to unfollow.   Not important.  But the other day it occurred to me "if they didn't put images there at all - it might be better?   But eventually even the wrong images help one identify.  And they are often right or close enough.   

The issue is that the images are basically an avatar for the topic.  Or illustration to an article.   Fantastic to have an illustration, but a constant grating feeling to have a picture of a train or a worm representing your article about cats.   Only a few get significantly misrepresented but it just feels wrong to keep seeing a topic illustrated in a conflicting manner.   If you are going to show an avatar, either let me choose it or make it so generic that it's not wrong at least.  

A little thing that does not go away if you use EN steadily.  But I ignore it like those barking dogs that always go off.  Such is life. Little things.

28 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Updated to ex-Evernote Legacy user   

>EN offers a free tier and perhaps feel that us paying customers are subsidizing it? 

That's my understanding of how it works, with the objective of becoming paying customers

>but wonder how people might abuse the free tier

Using the product with no intention of ever paying   

Ah, ok.  Sorry to hear but glad you are still contributing to the discussion, thx.

Gotcha on the abuse explanation.  I didn't know it was a trial thing.   Anyway, free worked to get me hooked!   I now know that this is one of the top services I need on every device.  Why I pay.

1 minute ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

This may be Evernote's biggest making-users-happy conflict: "new features can be problematic" vs. "why can't it do X?" I suppose that 75% of the threads on these forums are one or the other of those. And each side feels equally ... what? aggrieved? cheated? just annoyed? The addition of tasks is a classic example. "Tasks? Who needs tasks?" vs. "You call these tasks? Make them better!"

Agreed.  "Remember everything (in one app)" or "Try to do everything (in one app)".   Which is it, right?  

17 hours ago, DTLow said:

I left Evernote when they converted to the v10 product    
For me, it was a features issue   
I'm tolerant of price increases, but have always thought the "free" tier has been abused by many users
imho  New users should get full access for only a limited trial period

Interesting.  You left Evernote but your signature says legacy user.  I wonder which it is. I'm a fairly committed  legacy user myself.   V10 will have to actually function better - for my usage - before I'll change.   I'll try it out again sometime if EN is still affordable after all this.  Bells and whistles are no compensation for increased friction accessing my data though. 

For me, EN is a utility service like Google Drive.  I want it to work and to keep working with the least friction and not be too expensive to include in my yearly budget along with all the other subscriptions. I'm off of LastPass paid (another utility) for that reason.    It's not something where new features make it better for me and to the degree they cost more or adds friction, new features are problematic.   Jefito's comment about software like MS Word having 80% too much for most is spot-on.    I cope by looking for the more simplified tool when feature-creep takes over on the main one.  The critical features for EN were already mature when I started paying.  Unfortunately, in today's landscape companies find it difficult to simply earn a living providing a service.  Grow or die, right? Thankfully our utility companies, at least, don't work that way.  

I've been paying for a long time myself but wonder how people might abuse the free tier - what that means.  They cheat to get more than EN intends?   Take too much?   Like when they offer a free cookie at an event and you eat the whole tray?  Ha ha- never did that, I swear!    suspect you simply mean that you don't like that EN offers a free tier and perhaps feel that us paying customers are subsidizing it? I guess that's their business decision, but we can opine, to be sure, gotcha.  

On 11/16/2022 at 11:16 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

17 hours ago, gazumped said:

"Evernote's Next Chapter" seems to be a bunch of guys wading through the history of the company and trying to get Uncle Phil to say something controversial about the buy-out while he continues to stress that it's been 8 years since he left,  and he has no useful opinion... 

 

I heard about the sale first from TWIT and was impressed at how frequently and convincingly Leo lamented the downfall of Evernote.  As if it had died years ago.   As you say, Phil did not play along but that didn't stop Leo from repeating his assumptions various times.     I guess that he has long stopped using it and somehow that meant that we all did as well.  For me, there has been no downfall and will not be as long as legacy EN functions and there is still a server.    

That said, it's rare that things change in corporate world for the better.  Here's hoping they don't kill or break it!  

One of the things about Google search that made it work so well is that it weights things.  This brings the most likely result up top.  In EN, I can search for something and many results show up that have one occurrence of the term buried somewhere in the note but are not opened much and not about the term as a topic.   Then the one note titled with the search term will be buried down the list. Hard to even find.   It's like you search for "IRS USA" and you get twenty results where some site mentions IRS but the actual Gov site is buried on the next page. 

I know, I should have memorized whether the thing I'm searching for is in it's own titled note.  I should also have the search codes memorized so that I type the extra stuff in the window "intitle:" or something like that, in case it's a titled note.  I'm a bad lazy user who hasn't gotten search working after years and years. But I just want it to work like google.  I can use the web like a ninja but not EN.   

Speaking of that, could EN just somehow link to google so that we get google search limited to within the app?

My solution is to stop depending on Evernote as a functioning app on my phone.   It's more like an option these days if I must, but anything I need guaranteed access to, that I put in Google Keep or Email, or Drive which all function fine.  

I have a vague understanding that EN's recent global programming choices were optimized for the corporate side of things (easily changed, looks good, long feature lists) at the cost of speed and functionality. 

On 7/22/2021 at 3:53 PM, PinkElephant said:

EN has said they will continue the Plus plan as they did up to now - features of back then, price as back then.

Are they canceling our ability to keep offline notes on the mobile app or not?   That was the very feature that I became a subscriber for.   This is a huge change removing the much needed ability to access our most critical information when a data signal is not available.  A huge deal-killer.  

I encountered the same or similar issue yesterday.   Trying to read a note on my android 11 (Samsung Galaxy Note) tablet with V10, the note kept closing and the screen would go back not just one step but past the specific notebook to the list of notebooks.  Took multiple clicks to open the note again, but it closed promptly while scrolling.

Rinse and repeat.   Maddening! 

Playing with the issue, I did notice that perhapsEvernote V10 (or is it Android?) is reading a gesture that may have a "hook" movement to it that it is interpreting.   It seems that scrolling down the page (an upward finger movement) with a slight hook to the right in the movement provokes the closing of the note.  Perhaps very careful scrolling,  avoiding any "hooking action" might avoid the unintended closing effect.

I am a paying customer but am not going to open a support ticket.  I was just trying out v10 again for a day.  I solved MY note closing issue by reinstalling the legacy Android version. 

Cheers

On 6/24/2021 at 2:54 PM, gazumped said:

 AFAIK there has always been a regular pressure to upgrade - .... - but I don't think there's been any recent overt increase.  ....  but are you saying that the pressures you see have gone up? 

Or are you frustrated because the new features don't add anything to your individual experience?

I appreciate your engaging and open minded tone, Gazumped.   It's nice to see that not everybody who is an experienced premium user has a poor attitude.  

I am a long time Plus subscriber.  Every time I renew my subscription, I do, indeed feel that I am paying a fair price to support a useful service and I appreciate that when EN decided to eliminate our subscription level, that they left the option for us legacy subscribers.

I do resent someone with a higher need/income - perhaps a true business grade usage - acting as if, as a Plus user,  I'm no longer a valid participating client supporting this software.  My money and many others like me has been part of the yearly income EN used to build the business for the first decade. I have payed in hundreds of dollars over the years to EN.   If we had not been offered an affordable PLUS option back then, there may have never been enough paying user base to continue, who knows.  EN downplayed our role in their new business model's press release when they declared that move, but retaining that legacy option may have been as much to keep the ongoing paying user base income as high as possible while pushing for a higher price with new users. 

If they were so confident that they didn't need us, then I doubt they would have kept us!   I don't think the decision was based on altruism. 

Thanks EN for respecting us Plus users and continuing to support.

To address the two questions;

Yes the nagging to upgrade from Plus to Premium has increased.  The imposition of a new "home"  page we have to click through to get to our notes and one that we can't manage in anyway without upgrading is an additional pressure.  No doubt strategic.

And no, as far as I can tell so far, V10 does not add anything to my experience. It only removes and downgrades - as far as I can tell, but I'm keeping an eye on it to see.     I have personally been fine with EN for years and seen no new features that I wished for nor would pay to get.  It was all there long ago when I signed on.  The rest are bells and whistles - to me.   But I can see how such things might help attract new customers and increase the value to businesses and power users. 

Really, it's the same as all the MS suite stuff.  Excel and Word were fully functional tools many many iterations back.  But they have to keep doing something, right?  Today's business models don't allow for simply perfecting a good tool and selling the same thing for years.  It's like that everywhere. 

But I'll add my input in the ways that I can because what we say and pay for as consumers does matter.  It's not "love it or leave it"  but an ongoing feedback loop.  Both positive and negative feedback matter. 

I just tried entering some text to my notes on vehicle maintenance (noting the work done as it was done) but the android v10 wouldn't allow me to. .  The curser won't appear into the line where I want to add text.  The text editor will only allow me to add to the end of the note.   

So - can we have text editing - within our notes - as a "feature" in the "new improved" version?   

As a clue, I see something at the top of my note - a label added by EN that says  "HTML content"  I did not put that there.   I have no idea what flavor of content I have in my notes nor how Evernote manages all that.  They have never indicated any such distinctions before.  I form notes as I go, copying and pasting sections from anywhere, web pages, pdfs, photos, word docs and then I also enter my own text and organize, format.  

But now I find that the note I wish to add text to has the "HTML" text label at the top and somehow that means I can't edit it?   Where did this come from?  Why can't Evernote Android deal with the text in my Evernote desktop created notes?  

Whatever the reason, please add this text editing feature to the new version as it worked in the old one so that I can use it again. 

Sorta like asking for a car with a steering wheel as a feature, I know.   

But that's where we are at now.

On 4/22/2021 at 7:18 PM, PinkElephant said:

They improve their product by adding home. All users get it for free (some less happy than others, as this thread tells). Not money paid so far.

Now to make real good use of it, you need the subscription. Sure you can complain about it when on Basic, who wouldn’t like to get the steak and not only the bread ?

They put the good stuff into the window, and then they sell the tickets to get access. This is why probably the whole Basic plan expenses are booked as marketing cost, not as a charity.

If you look at it from ENs perspective, they need to balance the Basic user experience between „good enough“ and „just not too good“. Else conversion to paid accounts would stop, or even reverse itself.

1) "Improve"  is more like  "change"  their product, introducing a new layer

2) all users get it for free.  Yep, sorta like you take your car in for an oil change but they decided to spray paint it a different color.  It's an improvement!  And free!  Of course, it's not what you wanted and you now have a problem, but if you pay up, they will finish the job.  Hope you liked the color we chose.

3) No, they didn't put the good stuff in the window - they sold me a room to keep my data in I paid for the locks and then suddenly they put a heavy rollup door in front of it.  If I want the same access I used to have, I can lift the new door and get to where I was.  It's no advantage to most of us, it's an imposition. And paying doesn't even make it go away. 

4) I have a paid account.  Paying customer for many years.  They are looking for ways to force me to upgrade to features I don't need to a level of subscription that I don't want.  HOW?  By hindering my access to the content I create.  Creates a sense of adversarial disrespect to be honest.   The opposite of customer loyalty.  Will they get more or less money from me in the long run?  Less - because even though I will probably stay- I've stopped recommending EN to anyone else.   I am a negative marketer now. 

Quote

I have lost my faith in any corporation that is based in California.

I think that you are seriously limiting your view.  It's not about California, it's about the current corporate structure.  This is what modern corporations do.  It's a systematic issue, not a geographic one.  

I suspect that this is where we start to glimpse the real goals behind the latest corporate "improvements"  called "Home"

Now that our OWN choices for what to see when opening Evernote have been "improved" and turned a promotional page that makes it more like, what?   a Yahoo home page ?  - now that they have hijacked that and taken control over what we see first, well, don't worry because if you REALLY don't like what the corporation decided you should want to see, then SURE, you can change it.  

But it will cost you!  Pay up and ..you can have a bit of that control we just took away back. Yes ! That's right!  Premium subscribers can choose!  Otherwise, WE decide what to show you.