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shawnholt

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  1. Yet another completely ignored important request from the user community (especially those trying to leave behind onenote!) Please listen to us!
  2. I couldn't agree more. This forum has better outlining that EN. I keep trying to leave Onenote and then have so many more reasons to go back. OneNote is a fantastic outliner. It has lousy app integration and sparse updates, but blows the socks off of EN in that dept.
  3. Wow - this has happened 3 times this week and I lost a LOT of work. Can't believe this is not a priority.
  4. @yikeouch and @rekko - keep expressing your viewpoints - your doing a great job. There seem to be loud voices who drown everyone else out with statements like "if you don't like tags find another product ... " or "Evernote will never change that ...". These people really have no idea - they are users, just like you. The product team (if indeed they are listening) should be smart and creative enough to glean from your feedback a solution to accommodate your need. Many of us are wired to write outlines in a heiarchy and I'm sure if Evernote feels this is important they can figure out a way to allow the current users to do what they are doing and new users can be accommodated. Unfortunately, there are very narrow thinkers here who are not able to abstract your challenges. Many users have presented awkward workarounds - naming conventions, links, etc, but those are not the way the workflow is optimized, so it may be a fix, but not a solution. Keep expressing your selves and kudos to @grumpymonkey who may not agree that it suits him, but there are others who think differently.
  5. @jefito: Thanks for taking the time to respond so thoroughly. After 5,000+ posts, you are obviously very passionate about Evernote. Unfortunately, the fact that you keep talking about nested folders leads me to believe that you don't really understand what I'm trying to convey. In fact, by referring to nested folders you are making my point. I'm talking about how many people are accustomed to outlining content - sure nested folders are one way to do it, but I'm trying to point out there is a gap in the product,. I believe it applies to a large group of people - which you can estimate at whatever size you want - but judging from the number of people raising the issue and the many product that use that framework I'm confident that it is a significant market. While I applaud your zealous commitment to Evernote and your contributions to the forums, I'd encourage you to try and understand what i'm trying to convey before jumping all each premise with argumentative conjecture. It's not just you - I see a lot of this in the evernote forum, where "I'm right and your wrong." I'ts a shame because this energy could be spent trying to collaboratively solve problems. If your open to that sort of discussion, I'd welcome the dialog.
  6. @jefito: Of course software companies need to make difficult choices. Users are the WORST people to define features. they are great at helping product teams develop insights about users needs. Understanding users is critical to effective software development. Ignoring users is (perhaps there is a better word, but it resonates to me as ...) arrogance. Products need to be built for markets which have segments of users. I'm making the observation that there is a LARGE segment of users who are used to working with content structured in outline form. This is very different than tags which are meta information, an abstraction that is not easy for many people to get. I have no idea what the answer is (subnotebooks, new views, etc.) but I'm certain there is a problem for a sizable market. I've reviewed several threads on this topic and my conclusion (hypotheses really) are: 1. There are a large number (perhaps 5% ???) of the existing evernote community that would prefer a different abstraction. 2. I think it is reasonable to presume there is a large number of people who have tried to use evernote but stopped becuase of this issue (perhaps 10% of the existing user base - note its the dominant abstraction in outlook, onenote, etc.) 3. The discussions I have seen are all incredibly polarized about the ANSWER - changing the architecture or philosophical. I've seen a LOT of real hostility around this issue, as if it is an either/ or A/B right or wrong solution. 4. Since none of the proposed solutions seem to work the issue is dismissed (no published roadmap so all speculation) and there has been NOTHING presented to address or even acknowledge the underlying problem. my conclusion is that there is an arrogance on the part of Evernote or perhaps it's just a forum filled with uninformed voices, because they are assuming that potentially 15% of their users should change their behavior. 5. I like to think of myself as a pragmatist. I really really want to be able to use this tool. I think there are others like me. Changing a users behavior is possible, but hard. I think there should be an open and inclusive discussion to see if this large group of users needs can be accommodated with modest effort and without disrupting the architecture or workflow of current users. Who knows, this might lead to a much larger market share.....
  7. You may not be an official evangelist, but with over 3000 posts, you should be . I've seen development estimates of 10,000 Man hours slashed to less than 500 with some creative approaches to satisfying what the user really wants without major cost. In fact, i've seen this scale of change happen at least 10 times in my career. I think users want to see information in a hierarchy, not just the tags. That does not necessarily mean sub-notebooks as a data structure - it could mean a view that uses tags to display as a nested structure. There are many possibilities, but if the discussion becomes A vs. B / positional, dismissive and arrogant, then a creative solution will never be achieved. From my forum searching, there is a tremendous dissidence with some user base and that probably does not even represent the number of silent users. I'm hoping the team really tries to understand the user issue and spends some time to creatively address it.
  8. Wow - I've been trying to find his post, but must have come by 100 discussions on this topic. Can't see a listing of hist posts from profile. Seems like a lot of evangelists like yourself are trying to squash the issue.
  9. I don't think you are hearing me. Sorry if I'm not being clear. I just found a "locked thread" on this: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/25690-request-improve-the-tree-of-notebooks-and-stacks/page__st__20. I've been a product manager for 15 years. I really understand these issues and definitely understand development costs. My point is that creative solutions CAN often be achieved when the problem is not looked at as positional (ie. Either A or . A review of these threads (and your comments) keep indicating that it is an A or B choice and you have to take it or leave it, my way or the highway,etc. That is axiomatic of arrogance. I will search for Dave and perhaps direct my comments to him. Thanks for the reference.
  10. Yet another discussion: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/25235-request-multiple-notebook-levels/#entry155134
  11. A related discussion on this very issue: http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/25235-request-multiple-notebook-levels/#entry155134
  12. Ok - I haven't seen where they made it very clear. I'll reiterate then: "It's kind of arrogant if Evernote ignores users."
  13. My point is that if it has been discussed "many many times" (and it has been for YEARS.) then I would challenge the assumption that it does not "suit the average user well." Obviously, it is an important issue. It is the basis of Onenote and all traditional outlining tools. I learned outlining in school and have been doing it for years. Tags are relatively new. The idea of seeing your actual content in a hiachrchy, rather than meta-information (ie. tags) is not intuitive for a lot of people (perhaps there is a generational bias here.) I see three approach 1. ignore / dismiss them and have them adapt 2. create features to map to their mental model, at the risk of compromising design principle 3. Acknowledge the dissidence the product creates, and look for CREATIVE ways to address this that do not compromise design principals. What I keep hearing is that this philosophical issue is getting a #1 response (read YOUR own response -- its right there!) , but I am confident that bright people could deliver #3. I think a simple, additional view, might solve this, but if we can't get past #1, then #3 will NEVER happen.
  14. It's kind of aragant if Evernote ignores users. This is the way I think. May not be ideal way, or same way, but hard to change. Perhaps this can be accommodated wi tags? Other creative approaches. Getting philosophical about user experience will kill the product. A good designer can accommodate.
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