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Everything posted by NoelK

  1. Thanks for your post, Marcus, and for the update! I always appreciate an Evernote staff member weighing in here on a discussion. As for the bolded, however, be very careful of this mindset. JMichael has already made some very good points, and I share his thinking on the issue. You may well be right that many who are happy don't particularly frequent the forums, but please don't forget that there may well be many disgruntled users who are also not here to air their thoughts and complaints, there may also be many many more who have simply given up using Evernote silently, or have decided not to pull the trigger and go premium after all... For the moment at least, I've given up using Evernote. I may well return to it in future though. P.s - As an aside (and definitely no offence meant), I'm guessing you learned to type on a manual typewriter? You double tap space after each fullstop
  2. Uh huh... go back a few years and see if that word 'presenting' is still in there. It's called Copywriting. I'm sure it'll be updated to include collaborating soon enough. Out of interest though, what is your argument here? So if it doesn't include 'collaborating' right now, it is considered bloat? Writing notes, and collecting information. If Evernote just did this really well, I'd be very happy. Instead, Evernote have made the app bloated with extra features, and still after all these years the editor sucks... For what it's worth, I don't think you're a troll anyway.
  3. Are you always this abrasive in your responses to people in this forum? No wonder the Evernote forum has a reputation for zealotry. As for the bolded, yes. OneNote does indeed have way more buttons, but you know what? One of those very buttons allows me to hide the ribbon bar. Thereby making most of those buttons go away until I actually need them. Frankly, I've no idea why 6 whole seconds would bother you if you're only opening the app once or twice during the day and leaving it in the background while you do other things. Press Cmd+H and it disappears until you need it again. Out of interest though, when Evernote first started gaining momentum, it was because of the fact that it was a lightweight repository for almost anything I wanted to store there. A digital filing cabinet, if you will. Why exactly does Evernote need to offer more and not just be lightweight now?
  4. OneNote was released for Mac a little while back, you can check the app store if you're interested. I completely agree with what I've bolded in your quote here though. Evernote has stretched way beyond what it originally set out to do that it no longer seems to be suiting a lot of users' needs. Apart from that, users are getting very annoyed that even if Evernote wanted to add these features to the app, they have absolutely no choice in simply switching it off or not. Unfortunately, what comes with added features is a whole lot of lag and bloat. Frankly, I'd prefer if Evernote adopted the KISS philosophy. Keep the regular client simple, and 'trick out' Evernote business for those who actually need this collaborative bloat. Indeed, you're right. OneNote does take almost exactly 7 seconds to open for me. Thing is, 6 extra seconds for me to open OneNote in the morning is not a whole lot compared to how long it takes me to fix, say, a table in Evernote, thanks to Evernote's continually frustrating editor. In OneNote, a table can be fixed and edited quite easily. You can apply this same argument to a whole host of other features regarding the editor, not just for tables. How nice of you to tell him what his opinion should include. Well done. If we're going down that road though, your opinion shouldn't just include "get over it". That's not particularly helpful in terms of a discussion. I see you still don't understand why being able to switch off or hide the collaborative aspects of Evernote is entirely possible. You want a solution or an alternative to "always on whether you want it or not"? Give me the option to turn it off, or at least hide what I don't want.
  5. Incidentally, I've begun to shift all of my notes and other work over to OneNote for Mac. It's a dedicated note taking application, and while it's true that Microsoft have a habit of cramming a whole load of unnecessary features into their apps, OneNote has thus far managed to remain stutter-free. It takes a little while to get used to, but once you've figured out how to use the tabs, sheets, and notebooks properly it makes a lot of sense. I still have a lot of my notes in Evernote, though. It's hard to let it go as I've been using it for so many years now, but it's just being taken in a direction that isn't suitable for how I want to work. A shame, really.
  6. That would require Evernote having someone to actually care about our issues, or you know, acknowledge our existence. Ostensibly, that is not the case. Has been for a very long time now.
  7. I agree with this too. I find myself using the web client a lot more than the OSX app, for a few reasons: 1. The character of Evernote is still there with the green and grey accents on white. It's very nice to look at; 2. It's still functional enough for my more basic needs, and I find myself having a Chrome window open pretty much all the time anyway. And last, but certainly not least; 3. Work Chat is not front and centre to dominate my toolbar and create those occasional niggling distractions. In short: Evernote, in my opinion, absolutely ruined the Mac app. Indeed, they've been slowly ruining it in increments throughout the years... Alas, there is no good replacement as of yet.
  8. Or you could simply do what we've all been doing since 2008 - email the note. Absolutely no need for the recipient to turn on workchat at all.I'm not entirely sure Lycoz has been using Evernote longer than 6 months. Apparently making sure the entire team he is collaborating with has Work Chat turned on is an act of colossal heroism. And I speak as someone who has had to setup design standards for an entire engineering company for the switch to Autodesk Revit... Organising a team really isn't that difficult.I have no problem with work chat, it's the front and centre, no-choice-of-on-or-off nature of it that irks me. You just dont get it. Again its fine... The real professionals do get it. I cant rehash the exact same things over and over... Its a small button... Get over it... Its there to stay. Your annoyance at a little button is bewildering... I wish the human race had more important things to argue about... I am done here. Ah, the argument of condescension? Yeah, sorry, no. You can claim my point of view is invalid because "I don't get it" all you like, but it isn't an argument. If it was such a "little button", your earlier argument as to how it had such a big footprint are now invalid. If you just "don't get it" that some people don't need Evernote to be collaboration software, fair enough, but it in no way invalidates my argument, and that if other people's. Users have desired customisable toolbars pretty much since it was removed from Evernote for Mac. They've shown how much they care about this issue for users. For Evernote's sake, I would hope no developers are planning to release a dedicated, focused note-taking repository to compete directly with Evernote. Maybe the human race does have more important things to argue about, would you like them to do it here, in the Evernote forums? Really?
  9. Or you could simply do what we've all been doing since 2008 - email the note. Absolutely no need for the recipient to turn on workchat at all. I'm not entirely sure Lycoz has been using Evernote longer than 6 months. Apparently making sure the entire team he is collaborating with has Work Chat turned on is an act of colossal heroism. And I speak as someone who has had to setup design standards for an entire engineering company for the switch to Autodesk Revit... Organising a team really isn't that difficult. I have no problem with work chat, it's the front and centre, no-choice-of-on-or-off nature of it that irks me.
  10. ... To have to explain to him that he has to turn on workchat... or explain some arbiatary e-mail process that I dont know about because he has turned off his work-chat would be incredibly frustrating... It just doesnt work... ... You tell him: Preferences>Work Chat>On This would frustrate you? I'll be honest, being able to customise the toolbar as I have done with Apple mail and several other apps would be more important to me than switching Work Chat off, but I really don't think this would be as frustrating as you make it out to be.
  11. Everything I said went right over your head... Its not about inconveniencing me... What you are suggesting would make Workchat break... It would not work... I think the Evernote team knows this... They will ignore your suggestions... Because they are professionals. They know to just ignore what you are asking for... Because practically it is nonsense. I explained it to you. You dont get it. Thats fine.. It wont change.. I can guarantee that. Time will tell. Very aware of how often Evernote listen to users in regards to customising the toolbar, believe me. If this is the direction Evernote want to go in, that's their decision. I am, however, free to criticise and voice my opinion on a user forum. If Evernote actually finds itself in competition with a powerful, focused, note-taking repository, I would imagine myself and others would be away quickly enough. The condescension was quite unnecessary, too. I get it just fine, I just don't agree with you at all. WC can easily be used for those who want it, and not for others. Frankly, if that's how you want to be then fine, end of our discussion. I won't continue on with rock-headed fanatics.
  12. ... ... ... The crux of the argument is that by you getting customisation of work chat you essentially limit my ability to use it. Its a case of it either exists.. Or it doesn't.. You cant have something like that "half-exist"... Why should other users be inconvenienced or irritated at the lack of customisability, or turning off features that they don't want, just so that they don't inconvenience you? So what you're saying is that what somebody else wants is irrelevant or unworkable simply because it will inconvenience you? Why must your email be spammed? Why, because I might work that way! And so anyone who doesn't like the route that Evernote is going down here are just moaners who want to troll forums? As if I have nothing better to do. Frankly, the only reason I still use Evernote is because there is no real competition. One Note is way too clunky and others like Simplenote (which incidentally, Evernote 6 looks very similar to now) are lacking in certain features. I have used Evernote ever since the app actually lived up to it's name. Evernote. It was a note-taking repository that I could brain-dump into, keep pictures for research, save useful emails. Nowadays they're trying to make it into a complete collaboration and project management tool. It ceases to be a pure and powerful note-taking tool the further Evernote takes it in this direction. And here lies the crux of the matter: Evernote wants to make an app for all-in-one collaboration, I just want a powerful note-taking app and repository of information. As far as being able to switch off Work Chat goes, though... is it really so hard to ask those you plan to collaborate with to make sure they have WC switched on? Preferences>Work Chat>On Very same as Context. And this way, your coworkers can at least switch it back off when the project is over. I find it hard to believe that those that actually use Evernote for collaboration would have it switched off, accidentally or otherwise... This is also a good idea.
  13. Workchat is very usefull to many... Customizability confuses things I think the problem lies more in its placement and how its in a position whereby it messes with visibility and spacing to buttons that other people consider more important. i.e. if I put evernote in half screen... I cant add tags or search properly... because the top bar gets cramped and unusable... We need to features we use all the time to always be there... half screen or not... Workchat.. I could live with it being compromised in half screen... What I cant live with is my search/addition of tags etc being compromised... Its just one button... They need to place it better... probably make it smaller too... I completely understand work chat's usefulness to others, hence my example. I'm sure a lot of business associates, office workers, entrepreneurs, and so on find huge value in being able to collaborate right within Evernote. I've absolutely no problem with this. My problem, however, is that I personally use Evernote in a different way to these people. It's very much a personal repository of information for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I may not be a UX expert, but I fail to see how having a simple on/off toggle in the settings would overcomplicate things. I mentioned that Evernote's new Context feature can be switched on and off in exactly the same way Work Chat could be, and this doesn't complicate anything. Likewise, those users of OSX may be very familiar already with how OSX allows customisation of the toolbar. (View>Customise Toolbar... From there, it's a simple drag and drop) These problems that you mention seem to be fixed in a very similar way to my own... Obviously, the placement and size of the Work Chat button is a problem for some, but one that is easily fixed by being able to turn work chat off, or being able to customise the toolbar.
  14. Since there is still discussion about the buttons being customisable (which I completely agree with), in particular the Work Chat button, I thought I might ask why exactly is it that this new contextual feature for Evernote can be switched off if I want it, but Work Chat cannot? Why can't I switch that off? Let me emphasise this further: I do not use Evernote in the same way a business executive (for example) uses it. I do not need to collaborate with coworkers through Evernote. I do not want a chat client built into the same app I use to take notes, outline ideas, and in general produce raw information from my head to the computer before I work through it properly later in the appropriate program. Why (WHY?) can I not customise Evernote for my own needs/uses? Please consider making various elements customisable. The toolbar would be a great place to start. Please consider adding the Evernote green accents back in. In a misguided attempt to follow Apple's guidelines for Yosemite, I think you guys have completely removed the soul and character that was there with older versions of Evernote. Such a simple thing, green accent colours, could go a long way to alleviating people's problems with the new grey-on-grey-on-retina-burning white. I'm seriously considering just using the web client from now on. I write this in the assumption that the Evernote dev team actually listens to it's users and would like to actually improve the experience. That said, I'm happy you guys will be making the app more and more stable as time goes on.
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