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About CharlesHo

  1. That the organizational system of Penultimate is a collection of NOTEBOOKS that are made of individual pages yet when they sync to EN the ENTIRE notebook is a SINGLE note? The Penultimate app is itself a Notebook, so anything created within it would thus be pages. Penultimate is not a collection of notebooks, despite what is heavily implied by its organization system within the app (see the words "My Notebooks" within the Penultimate app that are just above all the floating NOTEBOOKS?). Penultimate is a single notebook, nothing more. The result of this is a poorly conceived organization system that becomes even worse to handle when trying to sort through the notes in EN, as individual NOTEBOOKS in Penultimate are actually a single individual NOTE in Evernote. A more robust organizational system is needed to complete the translation of note from Penultimate to EN, such as the one that affords Evernote the fame it deserves, before the Penultimate app can be seen as anything more than a point of shame.
  2. I'm going to go tagging crazy on my notes today and make this a perfectly ordered system of notes. This is definitely cause for me to drop Onenote and stay loyal to the EN app.
  3. All I have to say is...WOW! Yes, this is exactly what I was wanting! This works perfectly for me, jeez, I didn't even know this was a possible setup. Well, from my 2 item list of rants (canvas style writing and a more intuitive navigation) this definitely shows Evernote has all ready perfected at least one of them. And I could probably live without the other lol. THANKS!
  4. I'm curious, it's obviously me against everyone else, but I do see everyone's point and to some extent I agree with all of you and I wonder if there is a simple compromise. While I speak on two issues that continuously shows in forums, reviews, and articles as reasons people are shied away from the Evernote app and to something more conducive to their style there is also the equally large, if not larger, group of EN users that like the way the interface currently is and want nothing to change. May I propose that the individual notes do not appear in the tag hierarchy at all, keeping it the exact same way it is shown now, but instead allow for the same list of individual notes that we see in the normal notes interface to become an option to be shown in the tag interface. I'm of course talking about the list of individual notes that appears at the top of the window(or the side depending on your selected option) to also appear in the tags interface as an option. This way, when you click any tag the list at the top of the window is populated with the notes associated with the selected tag. Furthermore, might I also implore that a quick view method comes with this, such as the spacebar quick view that OSX uses as we've discussed. So far from what everyone has said about their concerns, this would simultaneously give both groups everything they want without compromising either style of navigating their note organizational system.
  5. If notes could have only one tag, then this would be feasible (though perhaps unwieldy). But they don't; notes can have more than one tag, and if you were to maintain a fully populated tree of all notes contained in all of their tags (or even a demand-driven partially populated tree), that might be problematic and confusing. But in all Evernote clients that I know of, there's a note list, and when you click on a tag in the tag tree, the note list shows you those notes (possibly subject to other search criteria).The fact of the matter is that tags are not containers; they're labels that you stick on notes. Sure, you *can* use them to organize hierarchically, but just because notes aren't presented in the same tree as their organizing tags (hey, they don't appear in the same UI tree as their notebooks, either) doesn't mean that the everything "completely falls apart" for everyone. Indeed, this user interface model is common, certainly every Windows user is familiar with the Windows Explorer folders-on-the-left-files-on-the-right schema, one which supports, yes, an actual hierarchical system, in what is arguably a fairly successful user interface, and one that a lot of people are familiar with. And containers are not tags, so why can a tag contained within another tag show me only associated tags and not what the tags are actually given to (the notes). I see the tag system as a list of titles, titles given to notes. Many notes have many different titles, but in the end the tag system is nothing more than a list of these titles unless you want to completely leave the tags interface and peruse what gives those titles substance in a totally different interface(the notes interface). Looking at how nice and organized my tags are is great but it is the absolute antithesis of a fluid interaction with a interface when I have to switch from one interface (the tags menu) to another (the notes menu) and then back again. OSX uses tags too. For argument sake, tag 50 items and put each of those 50 tagged items into their own unique tag group in EN and see how fast you can individually look at each note. This process would involve starting at the tag interface, opening a tag group, double clicking a tag, viewing the note within, hitting the back button in the top left, closing the previously opened tag group, opening another, repeating the process. 50 times... Then tag 50 text documents on your Mac and give each item its own unique tag in addition to that and see how fast you can individually look at each one. This entire process involves two buttons, neither of which is clicking of the mouse. The space bar and the arrow keys. The notes are never actually opened but I still get to look inside each one. Which is faster? The crux of this comparison is that the entire time I am viewing the individual items tagged in OSX I never once leave the tags interface. While on Evernote I do. 50 times. The point is while going in and out of the notes menu and tags menu seems like a task of little consequence in terms of time, when your notes become highly extensive this unnoticeable inconvenience seems a lot more noticeable. I believe someone above references the Onenote application as a desk drawer and Evernote as a filing cabinet. Well how does the navigational experience change when your filing cabinet actually has several hundred individual notes in it. Viewing notes under their respective tags would be disastrous for those of us with large note libraries. Absolutely disastrous. But even disregarding that, I fail to see how this saves any time from the current setup. All that's different is that instead of navigating notes in the note list once you're viewing the tag you desire, you view them in the sidebar, right? To me that seems a step backward. At least in the note list you get note previews. The current setup of EN actually functions pretty much exactly the way you request via the OSX Quick Look. Instead of hitting space on a note, you simply click it. The note opens up in the Note Preview pane and voila! I have to agree with Jefito in that, while Evernote's UI could use some tweaking, it's overall look and layout is probably the most popular software content layout of all time. Sidebar, List, Preview Pane. Outlook, most email clients, and a very large clump of task management software all follow this model, and it seems to really work. Sure, there's always room for improvement (I'm crossing my fingers for the ability to set note list layout per notebook vs. over all of Evernote, myself), but overall it really seems to work. I have 4k notes in my EN and I can easily and quickly hone in on exactly what I'm looking for. YMMV of course, but that's my 2 cents. For experiment's sake, I created 100 tags in Evernote. Then I randomly put many of those tags within many others in an effort to make the 100 tag hierarchy as complex as I can. It was very easy to navigate the resulting hierarchy. Granted it would of been even easier if there was some color coding system associated with the tags as opposed to the tride and true ubiquitously gray Evernote user interface. I suspect the interaction would be the same if it were 200, 400, etc. tags. So what if 100 of those tags were not tags at all but actual buttons associated with individual notes? I do not understand how a tag interface that seems to behave just as well independent of its size would all of a sudden be too complex if some of those tags were actually notes instead. If we think that the addition of individual notes into the tag interface is a level of complexity that can't be intuitive to the user then this also becomes a constraint on the level of complexity of just the tags themselves. In my opinion, there is no such thing as an "intuitive hierachical interface". That's why I love Evernote. Because you think there is no such thing as an intuitive hierarchical interface is why you love Evernote? Well, I don't really know what to say to that except that while it may be believed that it doesn't exist that does not mean the need or demand for one doesn't exist. The iphone didn't exist at one time but there was a need for one. Evernote didn't exist but there was a need for it. Onenote didn't exist but there was a need for it. Needs and demands motivate innovation. For those that do not innovate fall victim to obscurity. I know for a fact your opinion, as I understand it, is not Evernote's business model(for the most part) so I can't see them accepting this as an unchangeable reality of their own software.
  6. I don't follow. What exactly are you trying to do? Browse your notes? What purpose does double clicking (as opposed to single clicking) serve? Have you tried nesting tags? Yes, in this case the tags are indeed nested. Sorry, yes the desire is to offer a quick way to see notes in a system organized in a way that is customized to the individual, something that only this tag system has the potential to allow. Creating hierarchical organization systems in Evernote is actually very easy but where it completely falls apart is the hierarchy stops at just the groups and not the individual notes themselves. As for my double clicking, at least on OSX, when you get to the group just before you see the individual notes that it's comprised of you have to double click that group to get to the list of individual notes, which happens to completely take you out of the tags interface and into the notes interface.
  7. The tag system in Evernote is a great idea, but it is missing an intuitive hierarchical interface as well as a very quick way to actually look at the contents of the notes. As it stands now the tag system is organized like folders on a desktop, you have to double click each one to see whats inside then double click again to get to the individual notes you want, at which point the interface is entirely recreated just to show you what you clicked as if they assume you're not trying to quickly peruse your contents but somehow know exactly where you want to go with no room for error. This seems highly flawed to me, tags are an amazing idea but their presentation is enough to drive me mad and ruins their entire experience. Like someone said in this thread, thumbnails may be a great solution to this but I don't know if I want to see a miniature window of my notes as opposed to something larger that I can quickly read without needing to go away from the tags section of Evernote. Once again I find myself complaining about Evernote's concept of an interface. There is so many amazing ideas in the software that are just either poorly executed or not fully realized. Someone needs to step back and objectively look to see what they have right now and what are all the little things that can be done to, unquestionably, make Evernote the far superior product. It is so close! But right now its kind of an open question. Really hate dogging on Evernote so much as I truly do love the company. The actual Evernote program aside, the clipping utility that comes with Evernote as well as the browser extensions for clipping are absolutely unequaled right now and their is very very little room for improvement on those features and I suspect it will still be the case that Evernote is the best in this regard for a long time. P.S. My suggestion for fixing the tag system to address my concerns would be to allow INDIVIDUAL NOTE BUTTONS to be shown in the tag menu interface. Right now it stops at the respective group. You click the group, much like a folder, to see the individual notes inside of it. I suggest going one step farther by not stopping at the group but allowing us to click that same little down arrow on the right side of the tag in the tag menu to see the individual notes inside of it. And in taking a very clever idea from OSX where you can hit the space bar on literally any file, folder, image, etc. and get a blown up quick view of its contents faster than it would be to even open the file, this exact same thing should also be done in Evernote! Once the individual note is selected in your note hierarchy that you created in the tags menu, just hit the space bar! Doing so would get a large scale (larger than a thumbnail concept) of the notes faster than it would be to even open the note in the first place.
  8. My introduction to Evernote is like so many others...I got a Macbook Pro and realized Onenote is not native to OSX so I searched for the best Mac equivalent, Evernote. I've used Evernote for quite some time now and have yet to look back and hardly remember what it was like to use Onenote and even forgot about its existence all together as Evernote has made me a very satisfied customer. However, recently Microsoft released a fully native Onenote client in the App Store. I downloaded it to check it out to see how it changed and I was immediately reminded of the massive differences between Evernote and Onenote. Onenote has a well built canvas style layout where one may write anywhere they want in their notes, as opposed to writing exactly how one would in just a text document, strictly vertical as we see in Evernote. Onenote also has a highly customizable organization system with notebooks that have tabs for subjects and tabs that have pages for chapters and pages that have subpages for sections (I write this in the context of taking notes in classes but the benefit is the same in all applications). That may sound confusing but you can use it all or to whatever level of complexity and thoroughness you want. Now that I'm done lauding over how great Onenote is I want it to be understood that I say this because I WANT EVERNOTE TO BE EVEN BETTER! So I pose the question to the Evernote staff that in light of this new development with Onenote being more aggressive in encroaching upon your customer base and thus undoubtedly creating pressure for you to step up your game to make huge improvements before you start to lose too many of your customers to the Onenote brand, what is your plan in addressing these striking inferiorities that the Evernote team could indeed correct but has yet to do so? Specifically I ask this in terms of what are two of the most apparent differences, and in many people's opinions inferiorities on Evernote's part, those being a canvas layout for the notetaking experience and a more elaborate organization system of the likes that we see in Onenote. Will these issues never be addressed? Is it time for me to board the S.S. Onenote (PLEASE SAY NO..)?
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