WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'd like to report some more weird behavior regarding from tables on my Windows 10 desktop. After any change to the number of rows or columns through right-clicking and selecting "insert/delete above/below..." the undo button simply does not work. Instead of undoing the change to the number of rows or columns, Evernote just moves the cursor to a different cell. Very weird. What's going on? Also, regarding the browser version of Evernote tables, there does not seem to be an option for deleting or adding rows or columns or resizing them. Pressing the tab key when the cursor's in the bottom right cell, though, does create a new row. Am I missing something? EDIT: Two more issues. First, Copy/Cut/Paste problems. If I select and cut or copy two cells worth of content, they cannot paste anywhere inside the table. Instead, pasting just seems to move the cursor one space to the right... like the space bar. I do seem able to copy/paste the contents of those two cells into a new, separate table, though. After attempting to paste, not much happens... and I can't undo it. CTRL+Z just does not work. Totally broken. Second, why is it not possible to select the contents of a single column? Lastly: Would it be easier if I just made a video to show all the weirdness? Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted July 21, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted July 21, 2016 Evernote's Help & Learning pages don't seem to have anything on tables at the moment, but what you're describing seems generally like business as usual for the tables function. It's a very basic feature that doesn't allow nested tables (so you can't paste complete tables into tables) and beyond creating the initial shape and adding or deleting rows and columns, pretty inflexible. It's not a 'fault', it was just built that way. Improvements may be coming (Evernote don't -usually- share information like that) but meantime what you see is all you got. The workarounds abound - use a spreadsheet or a word processor and embed the file / create (and edit) your table in another app and copy it into the note; work on copies of your original note so you can get back to the start if you need to... No videos required - we all know some things just don't work, but its one of many improvements Evernote are (hopefully) getting to... Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 8 hours ago, gazumped said: Evernote's Help & Learning pages don't seem to have anything on tables at the moment, but what you're describing seems generally like business as usual for the tables function. It's a very basic feature that doesn't allow nested tables (so you can't paste complete tables into tables) and beyond creating the initial shape and adding or deleting rows and columns, pretty inflexible. It's not a 'fault', it was just built that way. Undo not working is "business as usual"? 8 hours ago, gazumped said: Improvements may be coming (Evernote don't -usually- share information like that) but meantime what you see is all you got. The workarounds abound - use a spreadsheet or a word processor and embed the file / create (and edit) your table in another app and copy it into the note; work on copies of your original note so you can get back to the start if you need to... No videos required - we all know some things just don't work, but its one of many improvements Evernote are (hopefully) getting to... These don't sound like very good workarounds. At best, I'll have a Google Drive spreadsheet or Doc with a table, update that, then copy/paste it into Evernote? Why, then, use Evernote at all for tables that need updating? Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted July 21, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted July 21, 2016 2 hours ago, WeCanLearnAnything said: Why, then, use Evernote at all for tables that need updating? Good question. Evernote has some limitations - it's meant to be a catch all 'save it here' option for all sorts of data. If you find it doesn't work for your particular use case, then find a different option. Link to comment
nohb 27 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 @WeCanLearnAnything I'm not able to reproduce the issue with the undo function. Can you send me your OS and Evernote version? Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 I'm using Windows 10. It updated a few days ago, I think. My Evernote says it is fully up to date. Link to comment
Level 5* s2sailor 2,183 Posted July 25, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted July 25, 2016 8 hours ago, WeCanLearnAnything said: My Evernote says it is fully up to date The version will be different depending on whether you are using betas or not. Under Help -> About report the version number that is shown. Link to comment
Level 5* s2sailor 2,183 Posted July 25, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted July 25, 2016 8 hours ago, WeCanLearnAnything said: My Evernote says it is fully up to date The version will be different depending on whether you are using betas or not. Under Help -> About report the version number that is shown. Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 My version of Evernote is 6.1.2.2292 (302292) on both my laptop and desktop. I've experienced the same bugs on both machines. I'm happy to make a video of any of this if requested. Link to comment
Level 5* CalS 5,280 Posted July 25, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted July 25, 2016 I see the same behavior as @WeCanLearnAnything for undo. However, if I hit a second Ctrl-Z the new row is deleted. So two Ctrl-Z's to undo the row add. Win 10, EN 6.2.1.3089. Link to comment
nohb 27 Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 @WeCanLearnAnythingYes, a video link reproducing this would be very helpful. I'll try to recreate the steps on my end as well. Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted August 3, 2016 Author Share Posted August 3, 2016 On 7/31/2016 at 8:24 PM, nohb said: @WeCanLearnAnythingYes, a video link reproducing this would be very helpful. I'll try to recreate the steps on my end as well. Ok. I haven't made a video in a very long time. Can anybody recommend free Windows 10 software I might use for this? Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted August 3, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted August 3, 2016 Hi - try Jing; works on my Win 10 Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 On 7/25/2016 at 7:39 AM, csihilling said: I see the same behavior as @WeCanLearnAnything for undo. However, if I hit a second Ctrl-Z the new row is deleted. So two Ctrl-Z's to undo the row add. Win 10, EN 6.2.1.3089. The same thing is happening for me. If I "undo" enough, eventually things get undone. On 7/31/2016 at 8:24 PM, nohb said: @WeCanLearnAnythingYes, a video link reproducing this would be very helpful. I'll try to recreate the steps on my end as well. Here is a video of the many undos required and other weird glitches. Sorry for the fact that it's in flash and doesn't have great audio quality. The bugs/glitches, though, I think, are very clearly demonstrated. Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted August 6, 2016 Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 On 8/4/2016 at 5:54 PM, WeCanLearnAnything said: Here is a video of the many undos required and other weird glitches. Sorry for the fact that it's in flash and doesn't have great audio quality. The bugs/glitches, though, I think, are very clearly demonstrated. If anybody has any ideas, please let me know. One additional glitch I forgot to mention: At ~1:55 of the video, the some of the vertices/borders of the table at the bottom just go missing. See the attached photo. Link to comment
nohb 27 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 @WeCanLearnAnything Thanks for the video. I've converted this into a ticket so that we can get a copy of your note and investigate this issue further. Link to comment
Romasato 9 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Yes, I have been seeing the same issues with Everenote undo functionality, especially tables. Seems that holding CTRL+Z (i.e. requesting a lot of undo steps) eventually gets to the state before user-made changes. So I get a feeling that undo is too granular for changes in the tables and should group content change actions into bigger chunks... Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted November 24, 2016 Author Share Posted November 24, 2016 On 11/7/2016 at 3:38 AM, Romasato said: Yes, I have been seeing the same issues with Everenote undo functionality, especially tables. Seems that holding CTRL+Z (i.e. requesting a lot of undo steps) eventually gets to the state before user-made changes. So I get a feeling that undo is too granular for changes in the tables and should group content change actions into bigger chunks... The support team did get back to me with their standard messages. [See pics below.] I worry that Evernote has known about this supposed "greater issue" with tables since, say, 2010, but they don't want to expend the resources to fix it. Nor can they be forthright about this unwillingness because they would lose users and customers, so they just keep sending out messages along the lines of "We're aware... we're kind of on it... maybe we'll fix it one day... no timetables, though... thanks for being patient!" Personally, I won't be waiting too much longer as other Evernote Support Team members . If the editor does not receive a giant batch of bug fixes and improvements by Dec. 31, 2016, I'll be switching products. I need basic functions to just work and Evernote doesn't seem to make products that just work. Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted November 25, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted November 25, 2016 5 hours ago, WeCanLearnAnything said: I worry that Evernote has known about this supposed "greater issue" with tables since, say, 2010 I'm confused about this statement of yours - on what do you base it? In late 2015 Evernote released a blog post which included this comment about the basis behind the 'common editor' which has only just been completely introduced to all the clients - so if they did know about something in 2010, they have been working on a fix since then. What it’s entailed—the many months and technical intricacies required to build one common Evernote editing experience—is beyond the scope of this blog, but what’s important is what this will mean for the Evernote experience to come. and later... ... if you look for it. Starting this week, the early morsels of progress will be built into our desktop betas. We’ll provide you with more details soon, but in the meantime we’d like to invite you to join our Mac and Windows beta programs and contribute the feedback that will make the note editing experience great. I agree with your (frequently) stated unhappiness with the editor - it ain't great by any measure; but to be fair they are trying to make it better. And it clearly isn't going to be a quick fix. Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted November 25, 2016 Author Share Posted November 25, 2016 8 hours ago, gazumped said: I'm confused about this statement of yours - on what do you base it? In late 2015 Evernote released a blog post which included this comment about the basis behind the 'common editor' which has only just been completely introduced to all the clients - so if they did know about something in 2010, they have been working on a fix since then. What it’s entailed—the many months and technical intricacies required to build one common Evernote editing experience—is beyond the scope of this blog, but what’s important is what this will mean for the Evernote experience to come. and later... ... if you look for it. Starting this week, the early morsels of progress will be built into our desktop betas. We’ll provide you with more details soon, but in the meantime we’d like to invite you to join our Mac and Windows beta programs and contribute the feedback that will make the note editing experience great. I agree with your (frequently) stated unhappiness with the editor - it ain't great by any measure; but to be fair they are trying to make it better. And it clearly isn't going to be a quick fix. A simple forum search finds requests for tables from 2008, users unable to add or delete rows in 2009, lack of basic table features in 2010, and that's just after a 2-minute search looking through 3 of about 50 pages of search results. Tables have been bad for a long time, so, yes, obviously they aren't going to fix it quickly. It's this presumably ultra long wait for a fix which has caused me to set a deadline of Dec 31, 2016 for a massive set of basic fixes, otherwise I'm leaving Evernote until they get their act together. Given their extremely consistent history of valuing feature additions over quality and basic functions, I think it's just way too likely that in 10 and 20 years Evernote users will have an amazingly colorful array of UI options, but they'll also be posting on these forums about frustratingly awful tables. I acknowledge that they have a hard technical task in making Evernote consistent across platforms. How should I respond to this? Should I tolerate awful tables for many more years because Evernote finds them so hard to fix? Or should I search for a program that has decent tables? Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted November 25, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted November 25, 2016 2 hours ago, WeCanLearnAnything said: I acknowledge that they have a hard technical task in making Evernote consistent across platforms. How should I respond to this? Should I tolerate awful tables for many more years because Evernote finds them so hard to fix? Or should I search for a program that has decent tables? I totally agree - I take a Rasczak view as in - " I need a app. You're it until you're dead or I find someone better." If you can find an app that better serves your needs, then of course you should move to it. My only point is that constantly complaining about something you know is going to tale time to fix - even while looking elsewhere for an alternative - is directly comparable to that kid in the back seat who keeps on saying "are we there yet?" Evernote say they're working on this, and have made some progress. They are an independent commercial operation, so of course they have their own agenda, and no amount of forum badgering is going to change their approach. So we either work within the limitations of what we've got, or we find something else. Link to comment
DavidPierson 15 Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 I'm surprised gazumped that you weren't aware of the long running issues with tables, and undo. That this has been rather broken for years is my experience also. Evernote team certainly have their own agenda. It appears to revolve primarily around re-jigging the layout of the UI. Many would appreciate some improvements in what would regard as basic format functionality. I'm very glad of the ENML editor. But then, I'm enjoy the raw source code, changing table border formats, creating partially merged rows, and the like in ENML. I'm sure I'm not normal. Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted November 28, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted November 28, 2016 2 minutes ago, DavidPierson said: I'm surprised gazumped that you weren't aware of the long running issues with tables, and undo. That this has been rather broken for years is my experience also. Evernote team certainly have their own agenda. It appears to revolve primarily around re-jigging the layout of the UI. Many would appreciate some improvements in what would regard as basic format functionality. I'm very glad of the ENML editor. But then, I'm enjoy the raw source code, changing table border formats, creating partially merged rows, and the like in ENML. I'm sure I'm not normal. I'm aware that the editor in general, plus tables, bullet points, indents and various other features have been the subject of various complaints over the years. My point was that a fix for all of that wasn't a quick lick of paint, it was a root and branch rewrite of the editor function in four different operating systems. Evernote explained that several months ago. So they're not ignoring requests or following their own agenda - just working quietly behind the scenes to deliver what customers have requested. Of course customers have requested a lot.... Link to comment
Stuart Madden 26 Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 On 11/28/2016 at 1:56 AM, gazumped said: I'm aware that the editor in general, plus tables, bullet points, indents and various other features have been the subject of various complaints over the years. My point was that a fix for all of that wasn't a quick lick of paint, it was a root and branch rewrite of the editor function in four different operating systems. Evernote explained that several months ago. So they're not ignoring requests or following their own agenda - just working quietly behind the scenes to deliver what customers have requested. Of course customers have requested a lot.... And there is the rub! - If Support or Evernote Employees used this medium to update its users (particularly paying customers) on a regular basis, I don't think some of us would be asking 'are we there yet?' so often. I really do understand that customers have requested a lot, but we are talking basic functionality here, the kind we find well implemented in Open Source Word Processors, Onenote and Word. - All we are asking for is for undo to work as advertised. Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted November 29, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted November 29, 2016 5 hours ago, erwlas said: And there is the rub! - If Support or Evernote Employees used this medium to update its users (particularly paying customers) on a regular basis, I don't think some of us would be asking 'are we there yet?' so often. I really do understand that customers have requested a lot, but we are talking basic functionality here, the kind we find well implemented in Open Source Word Processors, Onenote and Word. - All we are asking for is for undo to work as advertised. - There are actually good reasons for enterprises not to update customers, which boil down to not wasting resources. No matter what the company says, they'll get a reaction: "why did you prioritize this feature over <insert competing favorite feature here>" "why didn't you do this months ago when I first told you about it?" "exactly how will you implement this?" "will this be available in the web client?" "what about <insert favorite OS here>"... the list is endless. It's enough to keep a couple of people tied up just answering questions, and it won't satisfy some of your users anyway, who didn't want whatever it is that you're blogging about. And while there's not much 'real' competition for Evernote yet, why tell your competitors that you're working on (fictitious example alert) a better tagging system, when they can spend the next several weeks poaching your users, shouting about how their tagging process is so much better than even the proposed new one in development? (You realize that truth in marketing is like quantum physics, right? It's subject to the uncertainty principle - you can never be sure whether a claimed feature is true or false until you open the box on your new widget.) There is also the point that Evernote, in the past several years have only ever once or twice commented on something in progress. And in at least one case I know got buried in exactly the sort of demands, complaints and objections that I outlined! Plus for undo to work as advertised, the work schedule is as follows: Either: fix undo in original iOS client fix undo in original Android clients (version 2 - 7 are still current) fix undo in original MacOS clients (at least two architectures extant) fix undo in original Windows clients (7,8,8.1,10.10anniv - remembering that 8 was a rewrite of 7 and 10 was a complete rewrite of everything...) PS1 make sure the tool gives the same result in all clients. PS2 get ready to do the same for bullets, indents, tables... OR code something from scratch that will provide the 'editor' function in all clients, and allow new and improved features like styles, bullets, tables, indents test it a bit - 200 million users will get a bit upset if you flux it up develop new and improved features. As I understand it from what Evernote have said in blogs and release notes, 1 & 2 are done and 3 (with 2 repeated) is in currently hand. I'd say they're doing the best they can, but that's just my opinion.... Link to comment
WeCanLearnAnything 100 Posted November 30, 2016 Author Share Posted November 30, 2016 On 11/25/2016 at 6:06 AM, gazumped said: I totally agree - I take a Rasczak view as in - " I need a app. You're it until you're dead or I find someone better." If you can find an app that better serves your needs, then of course you should move to it. My only point is that constantly complaining about something you know is going to tale time to fix - even while looking elsewhere for an alternative - is directly comparable to that kid in the back seat who keeps on saying "are we there yet?" Evernote say they're working on this, and have made some progress. They are an independent commercial operation, so of course they have their own agenda, and no amount of forum badgering is going to change their approach. So we either work within the limitations of what we've got, or we find something else. That's a ridiculous comparison. In your example the kid's badgering is whiny if the parents are doing a reasonable job of driving. A better comparison would be: A kid has known for hours that his parent/driver is unaware that he/she has been driving East for hours while the destination is West. The parent's frequent reassurances - "We're almost there! Stop complaining! Be patient!" - get old after 14 hours of driving, especially since the entire drive should have taken 10 minutes. The brakes sounded funny for months, smoke frequently enters the cabin, and now gas is running low. Meanwhile, the parent/driver takes hours at a time to: give the kid more toys that he/she doesn't use install a DVD player in the back seat that really struggles to read DVDs program a smart phone app that helps control the car's air conditioning Use Febreeze to reduce the smell of all that smoke. I'll continue to report bugs on these forums as others who experience the same bugs will then realize that the problem is with Evernote and not, say, the OS or hardware, or whatever else. Link to comment
Level 5* DTLow 5,736 Posted November 30, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted November 30, 2016 6 hours ago, WeCanLearnAnything said: I'll continue to report bugs on these forums as others who experience the same bugs will then realize that the problem is with Evernote and not, say, the OS or hardware, or whatever else. Posting a bug report is good Posting a feature request is good Continual whining doesn't serve a purpose and gets on the nerves And stop kicking the back of my seat Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted November 30, 2016 Level 5* Share Posted November 30, 2016 ...and this hypothetical kid seems very sure it's much better informed than its parents... Link to comment
Litteroddity 0 Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I wasn't having this issue for a long time, but it seems to be back again! No more undos in tables for this guy. Was a fix ever found? Link to comment
Level 5* gazumped 11,652 Posted March 23, 2017 Level 5* Share Posted March 23, 2017 On 21/03/2017 at 3:05 PM, Litteroddity said: I wasn't having this issue for a long time, but it seems to be back again! No more undos in tables for this guy. Was a fix ever found? Hi. Please don't post in more than one thread. Link to comment
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