New for Evernote 6.2.1

[jbenson2 2,147]

39 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I actually use that all the time.  It is my preferred way to drill down within a search.  I never do a notebook specific search.  I just start with key words and if need be then click on a notebook if the initial search results are too broad.  I like the idea above about changing it to "Also found" to help clarify what it is.

 

Of course, we are beta users and therefore more familiar with the wonderful idiosyncrasies of Evernote programming that pop up with each release. My comment was trying to point out a confusing search result when the general version is released to the public.

[gustavgi 308]

Speaking of the "several" button, would it be possible to have the list sorted alphabetically, or at least give some hint as to why the suggestions seem to be sorted at random?

[s2sailor 2,186]

32 minutes ago, jbenson2 said:

Of course, we are beta users and therefore more familiar with the wonderful idiosyncrasies of Evernote programming that pop up with each release. My comment was trying to point out a confusing search result when the general version is released to the public.

Sigh ... you made a comment that said you would never use it.  I wasn't trying to devalue your comment, only providing a different view point.  I "don't" think it would be confusing if it was changed to "Also found" as suggested by @gustavgi and I would hate to see something, that I view as useful, be removed.

[CalS 5,280]

11 hours ago, gustavgi said:

 It's just the small magnifying glass in the Ctrl+Q box, that shows after you start typing. It lets you execute a note search with the mouse. Earlier it just cleared the search.

Thanks, guess I never noticed since I just hit enter, duh too.  Good to know.

[EdH 1,670]

I am having a LOT of issues with this build not refreshing the note view. I have it set to List View, and when changing notes, the header changes to the proper note title in the note window, but not the body. I have to switch notebooks and then switch back, or open then selected note in a new window. The note view below never changes though. Happens VERY frequently, dozens of times since upgrading a few minutes ago to 6.2.1.3089 (303089)

[eafpres 111]

2 hours ago, EdH said:

I am having a LOT of issues with this build not refreshing the note view. I have it set to List View, and when changing notes, the header changes to the proper note title in the note window, but not the body. I have to switch notebooks and then switch back, or open then selected note in a new window. The note view below never changes though. Happens VERY frequently, dozens of times since upgrading a few minutes ago to 6.2.1.3089 (303089)

This is not happening to me with the same build.  I'm in Windows 10 with all updates.  

[eafpres 111]

On 7/14/2016 at 8:19 AM, GiacomoLaw said:

Is anyone going to use the thumbnail view? It looks quite good...

After the last update, due to the change in the display of changed and created dates, I changed to list view and now have title, tags, created, updated as my columns.  Most of the time I have widths set such that I cannot see the last 2 columns, but they are right there if I need them.  I change sort by title, updated, and created all the time.  The list view makes that a one click.  So, I looked at thumbnail view and it is nice to see more of the note (or the PDF in the note) and using the zoom and gear I can get a nice view of most of the info I want, but to sort I have to go up and use the drop down to change.  Bottom line is I don't see using thumbnail view.

[gustavgi 308]

13 hours ago, eafpres said:

After the last update, due to the change in the display of changed and created dates, I changed to list view and now have title, tags, created, updated as my columns.  Most of the time I have widths set such that I cannot see the last 2 columns, but they are right there if I need them.  I change sort by title, updated, and created all the time.  The list view makes that a one click.  So, I looked at thumbnail view and it is nice to see more of the note (or the PDF in the note) and using the zoom and gear I can get a nice view of most of the info I want, but to sort I have to go up and use the drop down to change.  Bottom line is I don't see using thumbnail view.

@kvitekp mentioned on page 4 in this thread that he would pass that "issue" along to the UX/UI people, so hopefully you won't have to go through the drop down in the future.

[eafpres 111]

21 hours ago, gustavgi said:

It works in every instance except when you first filter by manually typing "notebook:" (it works when you select a notebook by dropdown, left panel, use a saved search that filters by notebook etc.).

Ah, missed that in your detailed description. My bad!

[eafpres 111]

1 hour ago, gustavgi said:

@kvitekp mentioned on page 4 in this thread that he would pass that "issue" along to the UX/UI people, so hopefully you won't have to go through the drop down in the future.

Oops.  I think I need to retake "Reading 101". 

It would be interesting to see the thumbnail view enhanced enough to replace note panel on the right. Imagine being able to zoom and scroll that view to see more than one note--as many or as few as you want. 

[s2sailor 2,186]

46 minutes ago, eafpres said:

It would be interesting to see the thumbnail view enhanced enough to replace note panel on the right. Imagine being able to zoom and scroll that view to see more than one note--as many or as few as you want.

I think you can already do that.  Under view deselect Note Panel and that will free up the right side of your screen and then zoom away.

[gustavgi 308]

17 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I think you can already do that.  Under view deselect Note Panel and that will free up the right side of your screen and then zoom away.

I guess he means that because some thumbnails doesn't show the entire note, you would need to be able to scroll (& zoom) also inside each thumbnail.

I can support that request if it was possible to have the search matches highlighted within the thumbnail (similar to how search matches are highlighted within "context cards" (premium feature) at the end of the note.

Either way, highlighting search matches in yellow within the thumbnail is something that would be a very nice touch either way!

[CalS 5,280]

3 hours ago, eafpres said:

Oops.  I think I need to retake "Reading 101". 

It would be interesting to see the thumbnail view enhanced enough to replace note panel on the right. Imagine being able to zoom and scroll that view to see more than one note--as many or as few as you want. 

Close the left panel (F10) in addition to closing the note panel (Ctrl-F11) and there you are, a screen of notes where you can adjust the number of columns by dragging the magnifier slider.

[jbenson2 2,147]

Using  Evernote for Windows 6.2.1.3089 (303089) Prerelease

Other users and I have noticed the Airplane photo as Evernote opens slowly.

I contacted Evernote Support and they suggested I post a comment on the beta forum
https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/251-windows-beta/

But... the link does not work.

You can find more details in this post (which does work)
https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/96063-database-opening-very-slow/
 

[CalS 5,280]

23 minutes ago, jbenson2 said:

Other users and I have noticed the Airplane photo as Evernote opens slowly.

Haven't seen that.  Biplane?  

[dbcerogert 3]

Error occurs when moving

[Krunoslav 197]

On 7/12/2016 at 10:09 PM, Chantal Leonard said:

[Edit 7/15: we've updated the beta to address a few bugs so try the download link again to get the latest]

Hi everyone,

We just released a new beta - You can download it here. 

Please reply to this post and let us know how you like it! And if you find an issue, please let us know in a reply to this post.

Thanks, 

Chantal (and the rest of the Windows Evernote team!) 

Evernote for Windows 6.2.1 Release Notes

New:

• New Tools/Options UI with lots of new options available
• New Thumbnail view for your list of notes that presents notes the way they look in Note View

Improved:

• Shortcuts can now be optionally displayed on a separate toolbar.
• Quick Search: clicking the button will pass the search to note search, just like Enter key. (thanks to gustavgi)
• Assisted Search: hovering the "several" notebooks popup shows notebook notes preview tooltip. (thanks to gustavgi)

Fixed:

• Miscellaneous bug fixes and improvements.

I would also like to recommend using this opportunity is when posting new updates notification like the next beta release or something. Can you please include screenshots of the new features. Reading something like this:

New:

• New Tools/Options UI with lots of new options available
• New Thumbnail view for your list of notes that presents notes the way they look in Note View

Does not reveal a lot about what that is unless one installs the Evernote, its hard to say what it means. Including a simple screenshot, or Gif would greatly help with this. And its super easy to do.  I have been asking for this in the past. But seems every time its the new employee who posts the update notification.  Thanks.

[gustavgi 308]

1 hour ago, Krunoslav said:

I would also like to recommend using this opportunity is when posting new updates notification like the next beta release or something. Can you please include screenshots of the new features. Reading something like this:

New:

• New Tools/Options UI with lots of new options available
• New Thumbnail view for your list of notes that presents notes the way they look in Note View

Does not reveal a lot about what that is unless one installs the Evernote, its hard to say what it means. Including a simple screenshot, or Gif would greatly help with this. And its super easy to do.  I have been asking for this in the past. But seems every time its the new employee who pots the update notification.  Thanks.

While screenshots would be nice, the beta information is not marketing. They are not supposed to put effort into convincing you to test the new beta by explaining how good the new features might be. It's information for the people that actually do download the beta, to test out the new features before release.

[Krunoslav 197]

35 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

While screenshots would be nice, the beta information is not marketing. They are not supposed to put effort into convincing you to test the new beta by explaining how good the new features might be. It's information for the people that actually do download the beta, to test out the new features before release.

But adding a screen shot is super easy and as they say an image speaks a thousand words. I don't see any convincing argument why it can't be added.

[gustavgi 308]

1 minute ago, Krunoslav said:

But adding a screen shot is super easy and as they say an image speaks a thousand words. I don't see any convincing argument why it can't be added.

Could be several reasons that make the process take more time that is should. The person in charge of posting on the forum may not be running the beta software on their computer is one.

[Krunoslav 197]

4 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Could be several reasons that make the process take more time that is should. The person in charge of posting on the forum may not be running the beta software on their computer is one.

Or maybe someone should just try a little harder. I'm sorry but this is basics, I can't see why wouldn't it be implemented. There is no convincing argument why something could not be improved that easily can be. Its 2016. Images and video are practically outnumbering the text. Almost every tool that we have now can do that. Including Evernote itself, has screenshot capability and this forum has the upload button. I don't see why something so useful would be so difficult to implement. Aren't we all here to improve Evernote and its community?

[gustavgi 308]

18 minutes ago, Krunoslav said:

Or maybe someone should just try a little harder. I'm sorry but this is basics, I can't see why wouldn't it be implemented. There is no convincing argument why something could not be improved that easily can be. Its 2016. Images and video are practically outnumbering the text. Almost every tool that we have now can do that. Including Evernote itself, has screenshot capability and this forum has the upload button. I don't see why something so useful would be so difficult to implement. Aren't we all here to improve Evernote and its community?

Of course, and like I said, images would be nice so I'm not defending the lack of pictures. It's just that it's a common problem that task which involves more than one person usually takes >15 minutes because of pure logistics/communication, even if it's the most basic thing you heard of. And 15 minutes is unacceptable to spend on a task which isn't giving anyone any concrete value.

I guess most of the time when they push out a beta which has been somewhat proofed, the people working on prerelease software already has moved on to other versions. This could mean that only a couple of people are able to send the person posting online screenshots of the state of the software and so on...

[Krunoslav 197]

3 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Of course, and like I said, images would be nice so I'm not defending the lack of pictures. It's just that it's a common problem that task which involves more than one person usually takes >15 minutes because of pure logistics/communication, even if it's the most basic thing you heard of. And 15 minutes is unacceptable to spend on a task which isn't giving anyone any concrete value.

It does not involve more than one person and takes less than 5 min. I don't know how experienced you are with screenshots or not. And it does provide a lot of value, I don't see how you can defend it. Even if you are playing Devil's advocate here.

[gustavgi 308]

Just now, Krunoslav said:

It does not involve more than one person and takes less than 5 min. I don't know how experienced you are with screenshots or not. And it does provide a lot of value, I don't see how you can defend it. Even if you are playing Devil's advocate here.

Like I said, it's hard to take screenshots if you don't have the software installed on the computer you are working on..

[Krunoslav 197]

9 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Like I said, it's hard to take screenshots if you don't have the software installed on the computer you are working on..

Evernote has a screenshot tool built in and annotations as well. Your excuse is not valid. I'm sorry.

[gustavgi 308]

4 hours ago, Krunoslav said:

Evernote has a screenshot tool built in and annotations as well. Your excuse is not valid. I'm sorry.

I was talking about the current public beta of Evernote... Everyone can take screenshots using paint or whatever.

But It is more likely that the person posting is sitting on the last stable release without the beta features, or a future release where taking screenshots is most likely prohibited.

But since it's just speculation on my part, hopefully Evernote can implement your idea or give you the reason why.

[s2sailor 2,186]

5 hours ago, Krunoslav said:

I would also like to recommend using this opportunity is when posting new updates notification like the next beta release or something. Can you please include screenshots of the new features.

I think this is a great idea for general, public releases but might be overkill for an interim, beta release,

[Krunoslav 197]

1 hour ago, s2sailor said:

I think this is a great idea for general, public releases but might be overkill for an interim, beta release,

Well, the whole point of posting a screenshot for a beta release would be to help see what it is that we will be testing and is it worth installing. And screenshots are sooooo easy to add that I really don't see why there is even a debate about this. Images of features always help and they are easy to show with a screenshot. If they are not using it, only thing I can think of is that for some reason they haven't thought about it. But now that they have been asked about it, there is no valid reason that I can see why they would not be included.

[gustavgi 308]

48 minutes ago, Krunoslav said:

Well, the whole point of posting a screenshot for a beta release would be to help see what it is that we will be testing and is it worth installing. And screenshots are sooooo easy to add that I really don't see why there is even a debate about this. Images of features always help and they are easy to show with a screenshot. If they are not using it, only thing I can think of is that for some reason they haven't thought about it. But now that they have been asked about it, there is no valid reason that I can see why they would not be included.

Another reason not to be more specific if it could make people not install betas, that otherwise would, because the new featues aren't "exiting" enough. One of the main reasons I install betas is that I hope that some new cool features have been implemented, and by that I help catch bugs even if the build turns out to be of no value to me.

[Krunoslav 197]

8 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

Another reason not to be more specific is that it could make people not install betas, that otherwise would, because the new featues aren't "exiting" enough. One of the main reasons I install betas is that I hope that some new cool features have been implemented, and by that I help catch bugs even if the build turns out to be of no value to me.

I'm just curios. Because now I don't know if you are trying to troll me or are you genuinely trying to complicate things for no reason.  Just let people post a simple screenshot and move on. I would appreciate if you didn't try to turn a useful suggestion into a "bug".I don't know what do you get out of it by playing the role of devil's advocate. There is no way you can argue against the usefulness of screenshot that explains more visually the new features and or changes. And they are simple to make. So you must be trolling. I would appreciate if you would stop, please. Thank you very much.  And if you are not trolling than I hope we can agree to disagree and move on. Enough time was wasted. 

[gustavgi 308]

Well one of the reasons is that I've never seen an Evernote employee call out a "bad" idea or motivate why an idea is less good. Instead they keep quiet and move on.

In those scenarios you sometime get a reaction from the user, complaining why they won't get an acknowlegement for their request(s). In those cases I might give a thought on why it might be "ignored". Sometimes I also tend to be selfish in the sense that I want Evernote to focus on being a better product. Therefore I might point out weak spots I see in a requests, if I feel that an implementation could cause short-term or long-term negative effects.

For the same reason I also hold back on personal request that I can see clash with other users work flows.

[eafpres 111]

Just thought I would put into this thread my perspective.  I ran an agile software team for about 2 years on a big project.  We had a lead customer, and when we wanted them to start using the beta, we had sales put together screen shots and verbiage not so much to convince them but to allay their concerns.  Internally, I was running one beta site, and we had a QA site, a development site, and then the current build.  We talked about each week what we wanted to push to which site; development usually had the latest, basically as a smoke test, the beta was one or two behind, and QA was behind only getting actual releases.  

I view this situation differently.  Evernote gives us, the actual customers, the option to load new betas.  Each of us has our own view and reasons to load it or not.  You might recall a couple years ago (maybe less) they pushed the beta for the web version, and we all blew it up because it was bad.  We could easily go back, so the risk was low, so lots of people tried it out.  There wasn't a big release package, it was just users wanting to see what was new.  The result of that was Evernote went back to a different direction and it was really a win for everyone.  Had they waited to document it and all that, they would be substantially more invested and less likely to go back, in my opinion.  

Last thing--a key part of these recent betas was addressing complaints around the changes to search in the latest release.  Evernote had taken a truly agile approach now and is addressing those concerns very quickly and making new features available to the community for feedback.  So if you don't have time for the bit of discovery, I understand that.  Then just stay on the released version.  On the other hand, they have received a lot of constructive feedback on the betas which I hope makes the release better.  I don't feel like my productivity has been significantly impacted by discovering the new features.  I am already using several of them in my workflow, so it is actually a net improvement after a week or so.

All of this is just my view, there are plenty of other valid viewpoints (not saying mine is valid...)

[EdH 1,670]

6 hours ago, Krunoslav said:

Or maybe someone should just try a little harder. I'm sorry but this is basics, I can't see why wouldn't it be implemented. There is no convincing argument why something could not be improved that easily can be. Its 2016. Images and video are practically outnumbering the text. Almost every tool that we have now can do that. Including Evernote itself, has screenshot capability and this forum has the upload button. I don't see why something so useful would be so difficult to implement. Aren't we all here to improve Evernote and its community?

I agree. These beta release notes are not super helpful this time around.

 

7 hours ago, gustavgi said:

 

• New Tools/Options UI with lots of new options available
• New Thumbnail view for your list of notes that presents notes the way they look in Note View

I still don't know what that means.

[CalS 5,280]

Not so sure about the screen shots, but I would be happy with a more comprehensive list of changes/fixes, whether it be the Beta or the General release.  Easier to test if you know all the things to look for.  And, though it is always fun to find an Easter egg, it is quicker if you can just read about it and use it.

[HerbyDE 101]

On 24.7.2016 at 8:43 PM, EdH said:

I agree. These beta release notes are not super helpful this time around.

 

I still don't know what that means.

1. " New Thumbnail view" means "Pinterest-like" -> look screen 1

2. "New Tools/Options UI" -> look screen 2

 

[gazumped 11,658]

Hey @Chantal Leonard - Just got the 6.2.2 update - install has said "Please wait while Windows configures Evernote v 6.2.2 - time remaining 2 seconds" for the last couple of minutes,  while my disk activity hit 100% and stayed there.  I noticed that the default database location has changed in this update - is the file being moved?  My database is around 12GB,  so that's going to take a while...

EDIT:  Hmmn.  Looks like Evernote is out of use for a while for me...

 

[jefito 5,589]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Hey @Chantal Leonard - Just got the 6.2.2 update - install has said "Please wait while Windows configures Evernote v 6.2.2 - time remaining 2 seconds" for the last couple of minutes,  while my disk activity hit 100% and stayed there.  I noticed that the default database location has changed in this update - is the file being moved?  My database is around 12GB,  so that's going to take a while...

EDIT:  Hmmn.  Looks like Evernote is out of use for a while for me...

May relate to this topic: 

Edit: Oh yeah, duh -- it's in the 6.2.2 release notes:

Evernote for Windows 6.2.2 Release Notes

New:

• New for Beta 2: Evernote is changing the default location of its files.

• New Tools/Options UI with lots of new options available

• New Thumbnail view that presents notes the way they look in Note View

Improved:

• Shortcuts can now be optionally displayed on a separate toolbar.

• Quick Search: clicking the button will pass the search to note search, just like Enter key. (thanks to gustavgi)

• Assisted Search: hovering the "several" notebooks popup shows notebook notes preview tooltip. (thanks to gustavgi)

Fixed:

• Fixed problem with with a cursor jumping to the beginning of the note when editing it in the single note view window.

• Fixed problem with note list selection not being scrolled when a note is selected using a shortcut.

• Fixed problem with thumbnail view sometimes getting very slow when viewing scale up images.

[gazumped 11,658]

Cheers.  As an update,  the 'copying...' window disappeared after about an hour (I had a lunch break) and I do have an Evernote icon on my desktop.  Plus the "time remaining 2 seconds" window which won't go away. 

My C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\Evernote\Evernote folder is empty apart from the backups I created,  and the C:\Users\USER\AppData\Local\Evernote\ folder is empty except for the sub-folder.  I did have more than one database - I use a couple of basic accounts as well as my premium.  All my databases are now missing from their old location.  System search for .EXB files in progress.

And the Evernote icon does nothing.  My backup laptop is currently updating to W10.  Not a good day so far...

[s2sailor 2,186]

42 minutes ago, jefito said:

Evernote for Windows 6.2.2 Release Notes

New:

• New for Beta 2: Evernote is changing the default location of its files.

For those of us with large databases, this one is a biggie and as @gazumped learned, will tie up your system for a while.  Would have been good if they had included a warning with that and it would be nice to know what the "new" default location is before we load the update.

[kvitekp 298]

23 minutes ago, gazumped said:

All my databases are now missing from their old location.

Before moving the database, Evernote showed the message box informing you about the new default database location: \Users\<user>\Evernote

Please start Evernote and check Tools/Options/General to see where your database is located.

[kvitekp 298]

This is the message box you'll see when upgrading to the latest beta... <EvernotePath> is replaced with \Users\<user>\Evernote:

[jefito 5,589]

23 minutes ago, kvitekp said:

This is the message box you'll see when upgrading to the latest beta... <EvernotePath> is replaced with \Users\<user>\Evernote:

 

Yep, I saw the dialog.

For something like this, a warning in the installer might be appropriate. Also, does it move the files if the database was not located in AppData/Local? I'm thinking of folks who may have moved it themselves, to, say an SSD.

[kvitekp 298]

7 minutes ago, jefito said:

For something like this, a warning in the installer might be appropriate. Also, does it move the files if the database was not located in AppData/Local? I'm thinking of folks who may have moved it themselves, to, say an SSD.

We're only changing default Evernote files location, so if it was customized, it stays as is. Also, if files cannot be moved for any reason, we customize Evernote files location to point to the old default location.

This is a huge change, so we really appreciate your feedback and edge case ideas! Please keep them coming.

[jbenson2 2,147]

10 minutes ago, kvitekp said:

This is a huge change, so we really appreciate your feedback and edge case ideas! Please keep them coming.

Thanks for the warning

In Windows I turned off the >Tools >Options >General >"Enable Beta updates"

I'll sit on the sidelines for a while and watch the comments after the general release is announced.

[jefito 5,589]

1 minute ago, kvitekp said:

We're only changing default Evernote files location, so if it was customized, it stays as is. Also, if files cannot be moved for any reason, we customize Evernote files location to point to the old default location.

This is a huge change, so we really appreciate your feedback and edge case ideas! Please keep them coming.

That policy sounds about right (I can only imagine the ripples throughout the code base(s) though). I think that including more detailed explanation (such as what you just clarified) might be helpful to users. I also still think some warning at install time would be helpful as well, but since I'd rather eat bugs than muck around in install scripts, I wouldn't quibble about it.  

Thanks.

[EdH 1,670]

I think a warning on the size and time would be appropriate. Mine is 8GB, so I will wait until later this morning to install the update when I can control the downtime. 

 

[CalS 5,280]

@kvitekp

No horse in the data base move race, mine is in a different location already.  Just installed the prerelease and EN came right back up.

A question though, which is quicker, moving the data base location yourself before the update or letting the update move it?  @gazumped's quote about taking a lunch prompted the question.

[ej8899 175]

I fail to see what folks are concerned about the database move for...

I have over 7000 notes, and just short of 8gb of data.  The move of data took me less time than it took for me to get up and pour myself an already made coffee.  A pretty painless process and everything is functioning just fine after.

[EdH 1,670]

4 minutes ago, csihilling said:

@kvitekp

No horse in the data base move race, mine is in a different location already.  Just installed the prerelease and EN came right back up.

A question though, which is quicker, moving the data base location yourself before the update or letting the update move it?  @gazumped's quote about taking a lunch prompted the question.

I suspect moving it manually then upgrading would just confuse it. I thought about doing that, then thought better of it. :-)

personally, I am looking forward to the day that blow the EN Windows database up and use the mac database structure, which is far faster from an end user perspective. 

[CalS 5,280]

1 minute ago, EdH said:

I suspect moving it manually then upgrading would just confuse it. I thought about doing that, then thought better of it. :-)

personally, I am looking forward to the day that blow the EN Windows database up and use the mac database structure, which is far faster from an end user perspective. 

Yeah, could be.  I just remember when I upgraded laptops a ways back I had to do a fresh install which amounted to restoring the DB in its custom location, modifying the location in options on the sign in splash screen, and then logging in.  Wasn't too bad.  Definitely not worth the tension if the conversion only takes a few minutes.

Trepidation on blowing up the EN Windows data base, mine is pretty much instantaneous now...  

[gustavgi 308]

 

56 minutes ago, csihilling said:

@kvitekp

No horse in the data base move race, mine is in a different location already.  Just installed the prerelease and EN came right back up.

A question though, which is quicker, moving the data base location yourself before the update or letting the update move it?  @gazumped's quote about taking a lunch prompted the question.

It seems like Evernote is just triggering the Windows copy+paste to new location, and then deleting the original files after copying is a success.

The things that affect the time is database-size and the speed of your harddrive (including activity). It took 10 seconds for me to move my 4 Gb file on a Surface Pro 4 with an SSD.

 

[CalS 5,280]

11 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

It seems like Evernote is just triggering the Windows copy+paste to new location, and then deleting the original files after copying is a success.

The things that affect the time is database-size and the speed of your harddrive (including activity). It took 10 seconds for me to move my 4 Gb file on a Surface Pro 4 with an SSD.

 

Simple enough, that answers the question, thanks.

[CalS 5,280]

11 minutes ago, gustavgi said:

It seems like Evernote is just triggering the Windows copy+paste to new location, and then deleting the original files after copying is a success.

The things that affect the time is database-size and the speed of your harddrive (including activity). It took 10 seconds for me to move my 4 Gb file on a Surface Pro 4 with an SSD.

 

Simple enough, that answers the question, thanks.

[gazumped 11,658]

Well I'm glad you guys are having fun - I'm back online now,  thanks to my Win10 'backup' laptop - the main one - i7 processor 8GB memory and a fast-ish hard drive with 50% capacity is still syncing. It's been over 5 hours now and the system is still so busy it's locked up.  Evernote shows me that it has my notes,  but I can't get to Tools > Options to check the location of the database,  and my Explorer window won't show me anything other than the folder content it loaded up with. 

For the record Windows file/ copy isn't the fastest thing on the planet,  and I'd normally use Teracopy in preference.  If and when I get my life back I'll copy a 16GB file with both and compare the times..

This time more than any other I strongly recommend that you 1) get a backup of the existing database folder before you start with Evernote,  and 2) if you have a large database,  do this one evening when you don't need the system for a while...

Just my luck that my normally routine update went wrong on the same day I decided to bite the bullet and go to W10.  To keep things in perspective I started that update 8 hours ago!!!

We'll just call this 'lost time'...

[jefito 5,589]

52 minutes ago, ej8899 said:

I fail to see what folks are concerned about the database move for...

I have over 7000 notes, and just short of 8gb of data.  The move of data took me less time than it took for me to get up and pour myself an already made coffee.  A pretty painless process and everything is functioning just fine after.

Customers are known to get wiggy about this sort of thing when it happens without warning. Trust me on this. And add in Peter's comments about it being a big change, it seems like a good idea to be careful around it, and your data in general.

[ej8899 175]

4 minutes ago, jefito said:

Customers are known to get wiggy about this sort of thing when it happens without warning. Trust me on this. And add in Peter's comments about it being a big change, it seems like a good idea to be careful around it, and your data in general.

True, but I suspect far too many people are forgetting we're testing a beta version - bugs, hiccups and potentially data loss are all a possibility.  Anyone having concerns is probably best removing themselves from beta updates to avoid contracting a case of the wiggies.

[CalS 5,280]

15 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Well I'm glad you guys are having fun - I'm back online now,  thanks to my Win10 'backup' laptop - the main one - i7 processor 8GB memory and a fast-ish hard drive with 50% capacity is still syncing. It's been over 5 hours now and the system is still so busy it's locked up.  Evernote shows me that it has my notes,  but I can't get to Tools > Options to check the location of the database,  and my Explorer window won't show me anything other than the folder content it loaded up with. 

For the record Windows file/ copy isn't the fastest thing on the planet,  and I'd normally use Teracopy in preference.  If and when I get my life back I'll copy a 16GB file with both and compare the times..

This time more than any other I strongly recommend that you 1) get a backup of the existing database folder before you start with Evernote,  and 2) if you have a large database,  do this one evening when you don't need the system for a while...

Just my luck that my normally routine update went wrong on the same day I decided to bite the bullet and go to W10.  To keep things in perspective I started that update 8 hours ago!!!

We'll just call this 'lost time'...

Sorry for your pain.  Two changes at the same time, you do tempt Murphy.    Must be time for a dram in your time zone.

[CalS 5,280]

17 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Well I'm glad you guys are having fun - I'm back online now,  thanks to my Win10 'backup' laptop - the main one - i7 processor 8GB memory and a fast-ish hard drive with 50% capacity is still syncing. It's been over 5 hours now and the system is still so busy it's locked up.  Evernote shows me that it has my notes,  but I can't get to Tools > Options to check the location of the database,  and my Explorer window won't show me anything other than the folder content it loaded up with. 

For the record Windows file/ copy isn't the fastest thing on the planet,  and I'd normally use Teracopy in preference.  If and when I get my life back I'll copy a 16GB file with both and compare the times..

This time more than any other I strongly recommend that you 1) get a backup of the existing database folder before you start with Evernote,  and 2) if you have a large database,  do this one evening when you don't need the system for a while...

Just my luck that my normally routine update went wrong on the same day I decided to bite the bullet and go to W10.  To keep things in perspective I started that update 8 hours ago!!!

We'll just call this 'lost time'...

Sorry for your pain.  Two changes at the same time, you do tempt Murphy.    Must be time for a wee dram in your time zone.

[EdH 1,670]

29 minutes ago, ej8899 said:

True, but I suspect far too many people are forgetting we're testing a beta version - bugs, hiccups and potentially data loss are all a possibility.  Anyone having concerns is probably best removing themselves from beta updates to avoid contracting a case of the wiggies.

Yes, but I think he was talking about what happens when this goes public. 

[gazumped 11,658]

Way ahead of you boss - welcome to my pity party... 

[kvitekp 298]

1 hour ago, jefito said:

That policy sounds about right (I can only imagine the ripples throughout the code base(s) though).

The code change is actually trivial and very isolated. It's the things that can go wrong when copying a potentially large amount of data (insufficient disk space, locked files, etc) what keep us worrying. We could not use "move" approach since there is no atomic "move" in Windows, so we have to go through "copy/delete" and fall back to "use as is" if something goes wrong.

1 hour ago, jefito said:

I also still think some warning at install time would be helpful as well, but since I'd rather eat bugs than muck around in install scripts, I wouldn't quibble about it

Installer knows nothing about database file locations -- it only installs Evernote program files and registers it's embedded with other apps. Also, if Evernote is installed for all users (which is the case for most), that warning will be shown only to the person who installed/updated the app, whereas database has to be moved for all users.

1 hour ago, csihilling said:

A question though, which is quicker, moving the data base location yourself before the update or letting the update move it?

If the new location is on the same drive, moving manually is faster: move vs. copy/delete. New location is \Users\<user>\Evernote, so in most cases it looks like this:

07:51:45 [7896] Moving Evernote files to the new default location
07:51:45 [7896] * from: C:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\Evernote\Evernote
07:51:45 [7896] *   to: C:\Users\<user>\Evernote

[kvitekp 298]

1 hour ago, EdH said:

I suspect moving it manually then upgrading would just confuse it. I thought about doing that, then thought better of it. :-)

Not really: if Evernote finds its files in the new default location in \Users\<user>\Evernote it will just use it without trying to move anything. It's totally safe.

The exact logic looks like this:

1. If Evernote files location is customized, just use customized location
2. If there is the database in the new default location, just use the new default location
3. If there is no database in the new default location, check if the database is present in the old default location
4. If there is one, show info message box and copy Evernote files into the new default location
5. If copy is successful, delete Evernote files in the old default location
6. If copy fails for any reason, customize Evernote files location to point to the old default location.

Note that when moving files from the old to the new default location, Evernote moves all files present in the old default location, including those that you placed there yourself.

[EdH 1,670]

59 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Well I'm glad you guys are having fun - I'm back online now,  thanks to my Win10 'backup' laptop - the main one - i7 processor 8GB memory and a fast-ish hard drive with 50% capacity is still syncing. It's been over 5 hours now and the system is still so busy it's locked up.  Evernote shows me that it has my notes,  but I can't get to Tools > Options to check the location of the database,  and my Explorer window won't show me anything other than the folder content it loaded up with. 

For the record Windows file/ copy isn't the fastest thing on the planet,  and I'd normally use Teracopy in preference.  If and when I get my life back I'll copy a 16GB file with both and compare the times..

This time more than any other I strongly recommend that you 1) get a backup of the existing database folder before you start with Evernote,  and 2) if you have a large database,  do this one evening when you don't need the system for a while...

Just my luck that my normally routine update went wrong on the same day I decided to bite the bullet and go to W10.  To keep things in perspective I started that update 8 hours ago!!!

We'll just call this 'lost time'...

Something blew up on your end I suspect. From the time I told it to install (after the download) until it was done was less than 2 minutes on my Surface Pro 4, i5 processor, 512GB SSD. It moved 9.1GB of data (most of that my EXB file, but about 66 other misc files and such in the EN folder structure, and EN 6.2.2 came up and was responsive nearly immediately.

Sorry for your trouble. I hope EN can get a log from you on this that might help them avoid this issue for the general public should it be a specific set of circumstances and not a hardware issue on your end, like bad sectors or something.

[EdH 1,670]

I also had to go and exclude this folder from my backup. Backing up the EN folder is just a waste of time and bandwidth. The reality is though I doubt most EN users have any kind of backup installed.

[jefito 5,589]

58 minutes ago, ej8899 said:

True, but I suspect far too many people are forgetting we're testing a beta version - bugs, hiccups and potentially data loss are all a possibility.  Anyone having concerns is probably best removing themselves from beta updates to avoid contracting a case of the wiggies.

I doubt that anyone is forgetting that, but speaking for myself, I'm just making suggestions with the idea of improving the eventual release.

[kvitekp 298]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

Well I'm glad you guys are having fun - I'm back online now,  thanks to my Win10 'backup' laptop - the main one - i7 processor 8GB memory and a fast-ish hard drive with 50% capacity is still syncing. It's been over 5 hours now and the system is still so busy it's locked up.  Evernote shows me that it has my notes,  but I can't get to Tools > Options to check the location of the database,  and my Explorer window won't show me anything other than the folder content it loaded up with. 

I'm not sure why it takes so much time in your case -- Evernote uses Windows Shell copy folders API, and 50GB databases were moved pretty quickly (< 10 mins) on less than average computers here with pretty busy non SSD hard drives. 

You can always terminate Evernote process if it takes too long and move the files manually using the tool you prefer. We've chosen Windows Shell copy service due to it's great interactive error handling and progress reporting.

[gazumped 11,658]

Thanks Peter.  My system is completely locked up,  but Explorer says that my former Databases folder is now totally empty - so I was nervous about interrupting anything.  When I last checked an hour or so ago things looked as though they were getting to some sort of conclusion,  so I'll look again in a little while and if necessary power things off and restart.  It's normally a fast computer,  but for whatever reason today it is in a complete panic.

[EdH 1,670]

1 hour ago, kvitekp said:

The code change is actually trivial and very isolated. It's the things that can go wrong when copying a potentially large amount of data (insufficient disk space, locked files, etc) what keep us worrying. We could not use "move" approach since there is no atomic "move" in Windows, so we have to go through "copy/delete" and fall back to "use as is" if something goes wrong.

If by "Atomic Move" you mean move entire structures, why not:

1. create the new folder location
2. Move the EXB file only. That is the only file of any size. I know you can do that because I can do that from the command line.
3. copy/delete the rest of the files, which will be tiny and not cause the out of disk space issues that the EXB file could cause.

[kvitekp 298]

3 hours ago, EdH said:

If by "Atomic Move" you mean move entire structures, why not:

1. create the new folder location
2. Move the EXB file only. That is the only file of any size. I know you can do that because I can do that from the command line.
3. copy/delete the rest of the files, which will be tiny and not cause the out of disk space issues that the EXB file could cause.

The satellite files are very small compared to the database size, so leaving them behind will not give us much. Instead, we've chosen all or nothing approach: if something goes wrong, we just use the old location without touching it at all, just like if you've used custom location.

[kvitekp 298]

7 hours ago, gazumped said:

My system is completely locked up,  but Explorer says that my former Databases folder is now totally empty - so I was nervous about interrupting anything.

When moving database, Evernote will clean the old default location only after it successfully copied all its contents to the new default location in \Users\<user>\Evernote.

[gazumped 11,658]

Hi Peter - thanks for the further update.  Actually I was wrong to say 'totally empty' - I meant of Evernote files;  I did have 3 backup files in there,  averaging 10GB each.  They weren't moved or deleted.  I'll tidy them tomorrow.

I just gave a wrap up summary over here -

 

[EdH 1,670]

10 hours ago, kvitekp said:

The satellite files are very small compared to the database size, so leaving them behind will not give us much. Instead, we've chosen all or nothing approach: if something goes wrong, we just use the old location without touching it at all, just like if you've used custom location.

I understand that. I just thought if you moved the single large database file instead of copying/deleting, you mitigate any out of space errors.

[EdH 1,670]

10 hours ago, kvitekp said:

The satellite files are very small compared to the database size, so leaving them behind will not give us much. Instead, we've chosen all or nothing approach: if something goes wrong, we just use the old location without touching it at all, just like if you've used custom location.

I understand that. I just thought if you moved the single large database file instead of copying/deleting, you mitigate any out of space errors.

[eafpres 111]

Here are my results updating to Evernote 6.2.2

Windows 10, Lenovo Y50 touch, Chrome

Total ET 12:15 minutes, most of that was copy/delete databases to new folder

Databases folder size 12 GB (sorry for the crappy graphics below, but this is what the Properties query reports)

 

 

[jefito 5,589]

8 hours ago, EdH said:

I understand that. I just thought if you moved the single large database file instead of copying/deleting, you mitigate any out of space errors.

Even so, you still need to code for handling out-of-space errors. And if you move the .exb file, and then something else fails, then you need to remember to move the .exb file back. Much simpler to copy everything, and if it succeeds, delete the old.

[EdH 1,670]

3 hours ago, jefito said:

Even so, you still need to code for handling out-of-space errors. And if you move the .exb file, and then something else fails, then you need to remember to move the .exb file back. Much simpler to copy everything, and if it succeeds, delete the old.

Yeah, I get that. It just seems to me that the biggest issue is running out of disk space due to moving a multiple GB file that will temporarily double its requirements. By moving it, you eliminate that particular issue.

Or make the installer check for available disk space first. How much is available (HMIA)? How much does EN need(HMDENN)? Is HMDENN*2>HMIA?

[jefito 5,589]

2 hours ago, EdH said:

Yeah, I get that. It just seems to me that the biggest issue is running out of disk space due to moving a multiple GB file that will temporarily double its requirements. By moving it, you eliminate that particular issue.

Or make the installer check for available disk space first. How much is available (HMIA)? How much does EN need(HMDENN)? Is HMDENN*2>HMIA?

Sure, you can try basic checks, but Evernote isn't the only process running on the system at the same time, and there's no guarantee that other processes won't be writing to the destination drive then too. Bottom line is that you still have to code for the failure case, so why not use a strategy that I'd guess is simpler to clean up. I'm also guessing that failure cases for out-of-space would be pretty low -- if you're really that constrained for disk space, you have bigger problems than this one.