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Dmitriy583

Two device limit is a bad idea

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Give users a choice either ads or limit a bandwidth. I use Evernote rarely, just to memorize some stuff I need to get back later. I currently have it on 5 devices. 2 laptops with dual OS Win/Mac and a desktop PC. It's gonna be fairly inconvenient to manage these. I think I'll have to switch to web-version or seek for alternative.

If I understand it correctly free accounts are generating too much traffic. But you don't limit web-version to two devices? What if everybody starts using web version, won't this be even more traffic? 

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I think its a brilliant idea.
Its seems to be causing a lot of the non-paying users to leave.  These are non-paying, and will never pay.
And it's more incentive for new users trying the service, to switch to a pay account

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It's a bit of a pain in the butt, but that's likely the point. 

I don't want to see ads, especially not targeted ads, and they already limit bandwidth (that 60mb cap isn't exactly generous). 

The market sucks sometimes. 

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the new terms say I should only use Evernote on 2 devices. Well, that's what I'm doing. I use it on my macbook and on my android device. But on my macbook, I use it both on OS X, and bootcamp. Even since I'm using it on 3 platforms, I'm still limited to 2 devices. But Evernote is prompting me to remove one of my installations. I believe Evernote is violating its own terms, because I'm technically limited to 2 devices only. 

 

I need to point out that the only reason I switched from Onenote to Evernote was that by the time, Onenote was not a cloud based application (which is now). 

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As someone who occasionally uses Evernote for some notes (once or twice a week) but needs more then two devices, I will have to find an alternative.

The prices are too high for non-professional use as the alternatives grow and get better (f.ex. Google Keep). IMHO the wrong marketing decision, feels like desperate money-catching before the alternatives overtake the market...

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My two cents as a long term Evernote fan...

 

I was super sad to see that Evernote is increasing Premium prices. I was more sad to see Evernote limiting the number of devices to only 2 per account for the free version. 

I always have LOVED Evernote Premium. I have never even investigated any other option. My wife is also using Evernote for saving her blogs long term, but she has more than 2 devices where she will need access. 

With those new changes, I am now looking into OneNote. I will definitely have to bring my wife to One Note. I may also need to migrate my 10,368 notes to One Note as well.

As I said, I LOVE Evernote. My wife and I even bought the t-shirts. I even have 2 of them :) I have over 10,000 notes. I will probably not be recommending Evernote any more because of these changes. I get changes like this happen and I doubt anything I do will change that. I just wanted to give some feedback as a long term fan.

I never thought I would ever be jumping to another note program. Now am pulling all my notes into OneNote with the Windows tool... (carl sheds a tear)

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I just read about this new 2 device policy. I have been using evernote (free/basic) for many years now, and has changed/upgraded my phones several times over the years. So there are quite a few phones that has installed and used evernote using my account.

 

How will Evernote know which 2 devices are the ones to be used? I searched the settings and cant seem to find the list of devices that we can select or remove. I dont want evernote to automatically chose devices that I do not use or no longer use. How do I check and select/remove devices for evernote?

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It's been said in other threads,  but it may be worth repeating here - the two device limit 1) doesn't include Evernote web,  so you could happily use phone / tablet and laptop (via a browser);  and 2) the two devices aren't fixed in stone - deleting access to one device and adding a different one takes a few keystrokes.  I tend to use the device I'm working on pretty exclusively until the end of a 'session'.  Changing devices to work at home,  or on a work machine doesn't sound like it would be much of a chore...

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And if one follows good security practices (can't say I do :() and logs out after each session it shouldn't be a problem at all, if I read it right.

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Absolutely frustrated by evernote.

I was considering to upgrade my account to premium next year. I cant do it now. But two device limit is forcing me to change to OneNote.

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4 minutes ago, preisarrais said:

But two device limit is forcing me to change to OneNote.

You can have 100 devices, it's just you can only use two at a time.

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13 hours ago, preisarrais said:

I was considering to upgrade my account to premium next year

If Evernote had a $ for everyone "considering" to pay, they would.......

Why don't you "consider" upgrading to the Plus account

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...aaaand in addition to my post above,  the two-device limit only applies to Basic accounts - upgrade to Plus as @DTLow suggests,  and you're fine.  So no need to delay the subscription any longer...

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On 7/2/2016 at 7:26 PM, gazumped said:

... the two device limit 1) doesn't include Evernote web,  so you could happily use phone / tablet and laptop (via a browser);  and 2) the two devices aren't fixed in stone - deleting access to one device and adding a different one takes a few keystrokes....

 

17 hours ago, csihilling said:

You can have 100 devices, it's just you can only use two at a time.

I'm not a Basic user, so I'm not affected by the 2-device limit. But I do have to say that this point--that the limit really means only using 2 logged-in devices at once--was not made at all clear in EN's original announcements, and isn't very clear even in the subsequent Devices FAQ. I can't blame Basic users for being pretty confused about it. I certainly read the original announcement as saying that they are limited to 2 devices forever, period.

If it is a matter of logging off one device and onto another, then really it's hard for me to see the 2-device limit as much of a burden, even for people skillful enough to use one device in each hand. :) If 2 or more people are sharing a free account with 3 or 4 devices each ... well, honestly, even though it was allowed before, I can see how it couldn't last forever. It's like the Free Lunch Counter saying, "Sorry, but from now on you're limited to a plate and a glass; you and your crew will have to put the bowls, cups, and dessert plates down." You know, that Free Lunch Counter, the one we've all been to. ;)

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Actually the two device limit might do a bit of good - it should cut down on the conflicting edits complaints when folks dive from one screen to another...

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19 hours ago, preisarrais said:

Absolutely frustrated by evernote.

I was considering to upgrade my account to premium next year. I cant do it now. But two device limit is forcing me to change to OneNote.

You could always upgrade to Plus !!!! No numbers of device limit after that....

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3 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

 

 

I'm not a Basic user, so I'm not affected by the 2-device limit. But I do have to say that this point--that the limit really means only using 2 logged-in devices at once--was not made at all clear in EN's original announcements, and isn't very clear even in the subsequent Devices FAQ. I can't blame Basic users for being pretty confused about it. I certainly read the original announcement as saying that they are limited to 2 devices forever, period.

Ah, that's a great point then, all I have to do is log out after using it and I can log in on another device?

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On 2016-07-04 at 3:06 PM, alistairgd said:

Ah, that's a great point then, all I have to do is log out after using it and I can log in on another device?

Correct.

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Love Evernote. Thank you for an amazing product.

But now shifting to Onenote after the two device limit was announced. It is a major limitation for me even if I'm not a power user.
Also considering Google Keep. Wish Springpad was back in the game.

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It's not a "2 devices limit" it's "more than 2 devices at the same time".  Adding in new devices and switching between existing and new seems pretty easy... 

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1 hour ago, gazumped said:

It's not a "2 devices limit" it's "more than 2 devices at the same time".  Adding in new devices and switching between existing and new seems pretty easy... 

Geeesh... is that all?

And I've wasted time migrating to a Synology NAS Evernote clone. Oh well... going forward my "personal" notes will remain on my private cloud... for all else it is Evernote as normal, as long as I can log off other devices remotely.

So I'll check that out... will logging onto my phone on the road give me the opportunity to log off my tablet at home? Yep. That seemed to have worked. 

So a bit of a nuisance, and I'll need to develop a mnemonic by which to better remember my convoluted password. And maybe I'll use the web interface more unless I'm into heavy editing. but not as bad as originally communicated.

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On 7/2/2016 at 10:25 PM, RyanEklektos said:

This 2-device limit is insane. Evernote is going to start losing business.

Even iOS/Mac Notes are catching up with features. Also, I bet Microsoft is laughing, thinking of all the new OneNote business they'll get.

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On July 12, 2016 at 8:52 AM, DowCo1 said:

Even iOS/Mac Notes are catching up with features. Also, I bet Microsoft is laughing, thinking of all the new OneNote business they'll get.

Right, millions of non-paying users

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I was an Evernote since 2010, at one point i was a paid customer.

But the price point was to high for my type of usage, i don't store any images or recordings etc all I have is text.

So I switched back to the free version and I kept using it until today, once I encountered the device limitation.  (I own 1 phone, 1 tablet and 2 pcs)

I checked again on the pricing to see if i can add more devices, but it was still too high for something that today has so many alternatives.

So i went and backed all my data and then imported it to apple notes, (it was so simple it event kept all my history with the proper note dates).

http://lifehacker.com/how-to-transfer-your-notes-from-evernote-to-apple-notes-1767124859

I want to thank the evernotes tech team for creating this amazing app so ahead of its time, and for supporting it over the years into all the devices i have used.

Unfortunately their sales team I think do not know what they are doing, i'm sure like me there are other users willing to pay if there were a more affordable plan for text only users.

 

After this sand incident, I'm really happy now that I have consolidated all my notes on a single place and i don't need to depend on evernotes anymore.

This account unchinaglia was just created so that i can post on the forums, because i deleted all my data from evernotes and deactivated my old account.

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On July 1, 2016 at 3:06 PM, carlthewinner said:

My two cents as a long term Evernote fan...

 

I was super sad to see that Evernote is increasing Premium prices. I was more sad to see Evernote limiting the number of devices to only 2 per account for the free version. 

I always have LOVED Evernote Premium. I have never even investigated any other option. My wife is also using Evernote for saving her blogs long term, but she has more than 2 devices where she will need access. 

With those new changes, I am now looking into OneNote. I will definitely have to bring my wife to One Note. I may also need to migrate my 10,368 notes to One Note as well.

As I said, I LOVE Evernote. My wife and I even bought the t-shirts. I even have 2 of them :) I have over 10,000 notes. I will probably not be recommending Evernote any more because of these changes. I get changes like this happen and I doubt anything I do will change that. I just wanted to give some feedback as a long term fan.

I never thought I would ever be jumping to another note program. Now am pulling all my notes into OneNote with the Windows tool... (carl sheds a tear)

If you jump ship for good and want to unload your EN shirts let me know. 

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22 hours ago, DTLow said:

Right, millions of non-paying users

They might not be paying for OneNote, but they're now better prospects for Microsoft's other paid offerings. Evernote only has one way to monetize customers, while Microsoft has many.

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3 minutes ago, MileLow said:

now better prospects for Microsoft's other paid offerings

Seems to me that most of those are 1) things that Evernote has no interest in doing and 2) more expensive than an EN subscription.  If folks prefer not to pay for their 'important' services, and are willing to go to some lengths to keep their non-paying status,  I really don't think Evernote will suffer in the long term from their going...

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7 minutes ago, MileLow said:

They might not be paying for OneNote, but they're now better prospects for Microsoft's other paid offerings. Evernote only has one way to monetize customers, while Microsoft has many.

Did you notice the "non-paying" prefix

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On July 14, 2016 at 0:33 PM, DTLow said:

Did you notice the "non-paying" prefix

Non paying for the service that for many doesn't offer enough value over it's free competition. 

The same people may be spending enough money on Windows Store Apps, Xbox games and consoles, Office 360 subscription (that offers quite a bit of value, for whomever needs a full blown always up to date Office suite and 1 TB of cloud storage, plus free Evernote alternative, for about as much as EN Premium). Plus Bing searches. Plus potentially considering a Surface tablet which was pretty much designed around OneNote. Plus potentially at some point deciding to stick with Windows vs switching to Apple or Linux, or buying an Xbox over a PlayStation, because they are so invested in MS ecosystem, of which OneNote is now a major part.

There's a good reason why about two years ago MS made OneNote for desktop free and started heavily developing and pushing it on all major platforms. Before that it was an excellent but rather obscure desktop product for about a decade.

So I believe MS is salivating right now over all these non-paying EN users who are still likely to pay for games, store apps, and run Bing searches that bring ad money.

 

 

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On July 13, 2016 at 2:18 PM, DTLow said:

Right, millions of non-paying users

What makes you think ONLY the Non-paying users will migrate to OneNote. There are paying subscribers who

1) Have moved

2) Thinking about moving

3) Frustrated about increase in price

4) Don't care about increase in price but for the behavior of Evernote they just moved loosing trust. 

5) Who sort of stay at both places like me as I have a Office 365 Subscription and as well Premium. 

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1 hour ago, sangadi said:

What makes you think ONLY the Non-paying users will migrate to OneNote.

Non-paying users are the ones who tend to be more migratory
They try out a product, then switch to another product and so on

Paying users tend to be long term. They pay for a subscription.
However when their subscriptions expire, its conceivable they may chose to move to OneNote or other services. It happens all the time.

But my point was that since One Note doesn't charge for their accounts; all user are non-paying.
They don't generate revenue directly
 

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On July 14, 2016 at 9:25 AM, MileLow said:

They might not be paying for OneNote, but they're now better prospects for Microsoft's other paid offerings. Evernote only has one way to monetize customers, while Microsoft has many.

If they're currently Window users I would think they're  already prospects for MS

I agree that MS has more products for monetization than EN

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49 minutes ago, DTLow said:

If they're currently Window users I would think they're  already prospects for MS

OneNote is tightly integrated with Outlook and a number of users who wouldn't pay $60 or so a year for Evernote Premium or OneNote alone would probably consider paying that to get MS Office and 1 TB of cloud storage on top of all OneNote functionality.

Or, at some point, they will run out of free space and pay $24 / year for extra OneDrive storage.

Or, some of them will buy a Surface because they are heavy ON users and ON is a central part of Surface experience.

Or, they will just be more inclined to look at other MS products, or recommend them to others.

There's a number of ways in which an essential service like ON may generate added revenue while remaining free.

EN can't probably afford this model. And it's understandable. But their problem is not having an added value package that would compel more users to switch to a paid subscription even while there is so much free competition. Instead they are cutting services to free users and raising prices for paid ones without adding any more value to the product they provide. This is either a deliberate short term milking attempt or someone is smoking a very potent stuff.

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Like many others, I'm a free user who uses (well, used...) more than two devices. And having my phone, tablet and two laptops synced at all times was really useful.

I didn't, however, need any of the extra features on the higher tiers. I'm not a heavy user, just one with multiple devices to hand. And the new pricing and feature structure does not change that. And this is where the real problem lies.

If all you want is a jump from two always-synced devices to three or four, Plus just isn't a good value proposition. You're paying for a load of features that you have zero requirement for just to get a modest upgrade (it's not like I'm wanting to sync an actually unlimited number of devices, still a fingers-on-one-hand number) in a feature that used to be part of the free package.

I'm sorry but "Pay for junk you'll never need, so you can continue using a feature that used to be free" comes over as being a rip-off, however you try to spin it.

Alienating your free users really isn't a good idea. As what I think many companies tend to forget is that even a non-paying-user of a service can be word-of-mouth-advertising. And future users who hear of it, even form free users, may well have a genuine use-case for a paid tiers. But if everyone's talking about alternatives and migrations instead of why Evernote is really good, that's not going to help attract new users.

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I was a paying customer who switched to OneNote after seeing the new web version and the continued refusal to allow multiple sub-folders, and that was before Microsoft made switching much, much easier: https://www.onenote.com/import-evernote-to-onenote. Their web clipper could use more improvement, but the desktop version I use is absolutely loaded with features and MS is actually asking users what features they desire (as opposed to being told what features they are allowed). I'm very pleased with the switch.

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34 minutes ago, Spenceragain said:

I was a paying customer who switched to OneNote after seeing the new web version and the continued refusal to allow multiple sub-folders, 

OneNote has folders?

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1 hour ago, Spenceragain said:

OneNote offers up to six levels of hierarchy, as I'm sure you're aware.

Actually I'm not too familiar with OneNote, but thanks for the info

I am an Evernote user; not sure about "refusal to allow multiple sub-folders"

I guess the comparison in Evernote is Stacks/Notebooks/Notes; only three levels.

I was never fond of the folder filing model.  I prefer to organize my data using tags

 

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Oh, I just assumed you were familiar with OneNote. So many people have researched multiple options. The "refusal" goes back years and is well documented in these forums. Some love it as it is - hell, I still love so much about Evernote. And the web clipper is a work of art. For a while I tried to change so that Evernote would work for me, but I ultimately had to find something else that allowed me to organize in a way I felt comfortable with.

I don't understand why they implemented "stacks," since they were so adamant that "notebooks/notes" was all anyone needed. The thing is, adding the ability to have sub-folders, the way something like Nimbus Notes does, wouldn't negatively impact anyone who prefers tags. It would simply add an option that many users have been clamoring for. 

I was using the web version quite a bit last year, and what I have always loved about Evernote was the visual layout and the ability to have a visual overview at all times of "notebooks/list of notes/current or selected note." The new web version design did away with that and didn't even provide the option to use that view, thus removing one of the things that kept me from switching.

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Lol, no one going to pay for a note making app. Non paying users are responsible for all revenues generated by apps.

On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 11:48 PM, DTLow said:

Right, millions of non-paying users

 

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9 hours ago, opensource said:

Lol, no one going to pay for a note making app.

How about an app that acts as a digital filing cabinet and syncs to multiple device platforms.

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Definitely a bad idea. I needed a facility on all my 3 devices iPad4, iPHone5s and my laptop. I loved Evernote even though I'm only an occasional user. Now restricted to only one mobile device Evernote is no use to me. I've moved over to OneNote. Pity, but it was your choice!

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9 hours ago, bean481 said:

Definitely a bad idea. I needed a facility on all my 3 devices iPad4, iPHone5s and my laptop. I loved Evernote even though I'm only an occasional user. Now restricted to only one mobile device Evernote is no use to me. I've moved over to OneNote. Pity, but it was your choice!

You did understand that whenever you logged in on device #3,  you'd have only one option window to navigate requesting that you disconnect either device #1 or #2 to put #3 on the system?  As long as you're not using all three at the same time - which is pretty much impossible - you probably wouldn't have noticed much change.

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I'm so ticked off at Evernote right now. The 2 device limit is a JOKE!. And I swear they've purposely made evernote web buggy and slow now. It keeps freezing on me and crashing. So lame! I'm leaving Evernote.

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So we all can use Google keep as well. If you don't crave for notebooks too much. It's web app works separate from browser on PC also. a note making app is meant for syncing. And for making people work easier. Not to make them worried about one more thing.

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I will be leaving Evernote as well.

The 2 device limit is a crazy idea. I only save notes, and use very little cloud space (and would love the use dropbox sync if it was available), but I guess I would move somewhere else.

I would gladly pay to BUY the software, but pay a subscription just so I can use it in one more device, it's insane.

Thank you for the great software in the last years and I hope you continue developing evernote and this is just a bump on the road driven by the new management.

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On 7/24/2016 at 0:31 PM, kristenkj said:

I'm so ticked off at Evernote right now. The 2 device limit is a JOKE!. And I swear they've purposely made evernote web buggy and slow now. It keeps freezing on me and crashing. So lame! I'm leaving Evernote.

 

21 hours ago, psycoder said:

I will be leaving Evernote as well.

The 2 device limit is a crazy idea. I only save notes, and use very little cloud space (and would love the use dropbox sync if it was available), but I guess I would move somewhere else.

I would gladly pay to BUY the software, but pay a subscription just so I can use it in one more device, it's insane.

Thank you for the great software in the last years and I hope you continue developing evernote and this is just a bump on the road driven by the new management.

It is as two concurrent device limit.  You can have as many devices as you like, only two signed in at a time.

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I was Premium due to Samsung purchases, but free more than suited me for years before and ever since I let it expire. I'm a low bandwidth multi device user. I have laptops, tablets, and/or old phones scattered around my house, work, and car. They all had Evernote in the past. Due to this announcement I have spent a bit of time angrily selecting long-dormant devices and removing Evernote (my brain replacement). I had no idea how many devices I had, but I know how convenient it's always been to pick one up and reference one of my ~250 Evernote entrees. I knew I had to kill off one more device before tomorrow so I came here to find out how to revoke a device when not prompted. I came across this bittersweet thread and learned I only had to log out and not uninstall the app! I sure wish that was made clear in the announcement. There would be a lot less lashing out here and everywhere Evernote is discussed. I've absolutely shredded one of my favorite apps ever (second to the sadly defunct WikiMind) for weeks now to anyone who would listen. This was unnecessary and easily avoidable. Before someone who is more of a fanboy than I was tears me a new one because I may have missed a couple of words somewhere, let me say I'm sorry. When many of us see a privilege being removed we quickly turn on the red filter and let the hate fly.

Am I happy with this change? No. IMO, would be wiser offering a more affordable subscription for those of us who create a few words of traffic every once in a while? Yes. I know a lot of people who refuse to pay for any app or service on their phone. I will pay what I feel is a reasonable amount. Evernote for free is a great tool would I pay a few bucks for the app or a few bucks more for an annual subscription? Depends on my mood I suppose.

Regardless, I'm taking some deep breaths and looking forward to installing Evernote on a handful of more oft used devices in my path. Definitely time to come up with a less cryptic password though. Now THAT bothers me ... <sigh>

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1 hour ago, SLatEvnote said:

I came across this bittersweet thread and learned I only had to log out and not uninstall the app! I sure wish that was made clear in the announcement.

You're not alone in this. A lot of folks have been confused by the two-device limit, and that's caused a lot of unnecessary angst (some people are still outraged by it, but meh). Anyways, I agree that communication about this and the price increases could have been a lot clearer.

1 hour ago, SLatEvnote said:

Am I happy with this change? No. IMO, would be wiser offering a more affordable subscription for those of us who create a few words of traffic every once in a while?

You might be interested in this thread, where a lower-priced tier is proposed: 

 

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2 hours ago, jefito said:

You're not alone in this. A lot of folks have been confused by the two-device limit, and that's caused a lot of unnecessary angst (some people are still outraged by it, but meh). Anyways, I agree that communication about this and the price increases could have been a lot clearer.

You might be interested in this thread, where a lower-priced tier is proposed: 

 

Thank you for that link jefito. I have thrown my two cents into that thread as well.

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On 7/3/2016 at 7:42 PM, csihilling said:

You can have 100 devices, it's just you can only use two at a time.

Finally I can connect a face to the name :-) (re: your new avatar/ icon thingy)!

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Well thanks.  Don't believe everything you hear on the radio.

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On 7/4/2016 at 9:03 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

 

 

I'm not a Basic user, so I'm not affected by the 2-device limit. But I do have to say that this point--that the limit really means only using 2 logged-in devices at once--was not made at all clear in EN's original announcements, and isn't very clear even in the subsequent Devices FAQ. I can't blame Basic users for being pretty confused about it. I certainly read the original announcement as saying that they are limited to 2 devices forever, period.

If it is a matter of logging off one device and onto another, then really it's hard for me to see the 2-device limit as much of a burden, even for people skillful enough to use one device in each hand. :) If 2 or more people are sharing a free account with 3 or 4 devices each ... well, honestly, even though it was allowed before, I can see how it couldn't last forever. It's like the Free Lunch Counter saying, "Sorry, but from now on you're limited to a plate and a glass; you and your crew will have to put the bowls, cups, and dessert plates down." You know, that Free Lunch Counter, the one we've all been to. ;)

 

If this is true, then I can stay with Evernote. I have it installed on three devices - two computers and my phone and one of the reasons I switched from OneNote in the first place (as it didn't become mobile or synable until just recently). The announcement does seem like you can only use it on two devices, which is fine if you only own one computer and a smartphone, so like 12% of the population. The rest of us have three or more.

Though the amount of data is good for the plus or premium, it seems like Evernote only wants people using this for business, which I don't/rarely use (I actually use OneNote for business). I did think about using the premium discount, but again, I don't need most of these features.

Someone mentioned using the web version, however I don't LIKE using the web version (or I wouldn't have it on my computers). I feel there's better control using the desktop app versus the mobile and the web versions. The desktop version is better at customization and yes, if I just need to write down something quick, then the web version works (sometimes), but for actual notes, I would rather sign out of one and then use it on another.

As someone mentioned earlier, this isn't about people not paying for anything - it's about paying for things we don't need. It would be like paying for Windows Enterprise on a home computer - yes, I do business at home, but I'm not an enterprise business; why would I want to pay for enterprise features? I guess I could go for the plus version, but I'm never offline enough to need that feature, I don't forward emails to Evernote, and if I need support, I have this thing called Google. It's only business that I would be importing PDFs and that's only to organize notes; I don't search for text within them, I'm not taking people's business cards, and related notes and content is what I use tags for.

So for me, basic is fine, but the two device limit is stupid and certainly not worth it for features I don't and won't use.

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1 hour ago, Agent_66 said:

As someone mentioned earlier, this isn't about people not paying for anything - it's about paying for things we don't need. 

There's also the concept of "paying your own way"
plus, I need the expanded featureset in the paid plans

>>Someone mentioned using the web version, however I don't LIKE using the web version (or I wouldn't have it on my computers). I feel there's better control using the desktop app versus the mobile and the web versions. The desktop version is better at customization and yes, if I just need to write down something quick, then the web version works (sometimes), but for actual notes,

I also prefer the client software over the web platform; maybe it would have value as a paid feature. :)

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I always had a feeling Evernote team was dead (example: it's still not possible to do a search with AND and OR conditions; can't do a search; in app that is full of data...), now it's obvious.

Instead of "pay and you will get this great feature" they do "pay or we will make your life miserable". That's not how you do business, imo. Too bad there are no real alternatives that I know, currently.

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I don't even use it on a weekly basis, uses it once in a while to jot down notes, or paste links I might want at a later stage, so I do not cost much money. 

I have it at work, home + my iPhone. Doing a 2 device limitation might push me to OneNote. Or I might use web interface only. 

But cutting down the service for existing customers (even freeriders) is the way to get enemies, not happy customers.

Box.net gave me 50GB for life when I was an early user. They keep that promise. So they are always in the back of my mind as an alternative to DropBox.

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On 8/7/2016 at 4:57 AM, Dima Stefantsov said:

I always had a feeling Evernote team was dead (example: it's still not possible to do a search with AND and OR conditions; can't do a search; in app that is full of data...), now it's obvious.

Instead of "pay and you will get this great feature" they do "pay or we will make your life miserable". That's not how you do business, imo. Too bad there are no real alternatives that I know, currently.

Alternatively, it's "pay and you get enhanced Evernote features, or don't pay, and you get a useful Evernote feature set". "Doing business" is about keeping your company afloat so that you can continue giving value to your customers (i.e., doing business is not about going out of business). It seems fair to ask the users to pay for the value they're receiving; this only sharpens the question a bit. You can still use Evernote entirely for free.

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On 7/23/2016 at 3:29 PM, opensource said:

Non paying users are responsible for all revenues generated by apps.

uh...ok

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Was really surprized to find out the new limitation. 

The first though was - are you serious? 

 

Guys, I get 1Tb of cloud space (and excellent app that just works in addition to that) for $8/ month. 

Do you really expect me pay half of Dropbox price for a note-keeping app? Seriuosly? 

 

I never came close to that 60Mb limit per month since mostly I keep addresses and web linkes in evernote. But yes, I have many devices - two phones (used at different time), tablet, work PC and home PC. But I definitely not a heavy user (I think 1 note/ day is maximum I can make). 

I can get most of features I need with free Google Keep (the only thing I miss is attachment of PDF - when travelling I attach tickets in PDF to the note - but this feature is also unavailable for evernote since no offline files for free users).

 

I pay $2 for Strava app - the excellent motivational network for those into hobby sports - and I do that simply to support them. I don't need their premium (or at least can live without it), but I do feel they care about me. Even if I am a free user the product is 100% functional. They do not limit free users - they simply give more to those who pay.

 

Showing that you're only interested in my money is definitely the wrong message to the customer. Of course everyone wants to eat. But those who survive care not about money, but about the product and about their customers first. 

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1 hour ago, Sergey Kessel said:

Do you really expect me pay half of Dropbox price for a note-keeping app? Seriuosly? 

I would only consider paying if the features seem worth the value.
If not worth the value - don't pay.
If the device limit thing is too much hastle - I would find another product to use.
Seems like a simple solution to me, I don't understand your issue.

As to you being a customer - I would think that implies you pay money

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1 hour ago, Sergey Kessel said:

Guys, I get 1Tb of cloud space (and excellent app that just works in addition to that) for $8/ month. 

Do you really expect me pay half of Dropbox price for a note-keeping app? Seriuosly? 

The value of Evernote has never really been in upload capacity, which is not the same as storage capacity; Evernote doesn't really have storage capacity limits, though you'd be probably be pretty sorry if you actually had a 1TB Evernote note database: the desktop clients have had difficulty with large databases. It's actually the ability to organize and search your data in ways that are better than that of a simple file system that makes Evernote useful to me. So no, nobody's expecting you to do anything; I'm guessing they're hoping that you try to make a rational decision about your needs, and do something appropriate. If that means losing you as a customer who doesn't pay them anything anyways, then I think that they can take it. Why wouldn't they be interested in your money? Do you think that they're in business purely to feel good about how they're helping people to organize their lives? That's a nice thought, but businesses need money to pay their employees. I don't work for free. Do you? If the business can't survive because they're not making enough money, then what happens to their customers anyway?

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Every buisness needs money, no question here. The point is - if you put money first, before your customers (and customers are all users, not necessarily those who pay) you won't survive. I beleive in a simple equation - customer-company-employee. That's how you shall prioritise things. And that works. Always.

And logic "you're not paying - so why shall they care" also works, always - companies that think like that die very soon. 

Speaking of evernote - I do beleive they'll clear userbase from those that dont generate revenues. The point is, as mentioned above, that non-paying users are responsible for generating all revenues. It is non-paying that make word of mouth. It is non-paying that convert to paying. Killing non-paying is killing your future. 

 

So I think the only curcumstances that this step can be "justified" is when you plan to sell a company and need nice figures in your repors. Showing nice figures in reports always payback (negatively) afterwards. 

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16 hours ago, Sergey Kessel said:

....companies that think like that die very soon. 

Speaking of evernote - I do beleive they'll clear userbase from those that dont generate revenues. The point is, as mentioned above, that non-paying users are responsible for generating all revenues. It is non-paying that make word of mouth. It is non-paying that convert to paying. Killing non-paying is killing your future. ...

Companies also die that give away their product without having revenue

Personally I don't believe that EN's future is in the long term non-paying users.  
Regardless, EN is continuing the free basic account level, and the non-paying users should be grateful

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1 hour ago, Sergey Kessel said:

Every buisness needs money, no question here. The point is - if you put money first, before your customers (and customers are all users, not necessarily those who pay) you won't survive. I beleive in a simple equation - customer-company-employee. That's how you shall prioritise things. And that works. Always.

And logic "you're not paying - so why shall they care" also works, always - companies that think like that die very soon. 

Speaking of evernote - I do beleive they'll clear userbase from those that dont generate revenues. The point is, as mentioned above, that non-paying users are responsible for generating all revenues. It is non-paying that make word of mouth. It is non-paying that convert to paying. Killing non-paying is killing your future. 

So I think the only curcumstances that this step can be "justified" is when you plan to sell a company and need nice figures in your repors. Showing nice figures in reports always payback (negatively) afterwards. 

If you don't pay attention to money, then the business dies, and customers are nowhere regardless. That's not a good business plan.

By the way, it's false to say that they are putting money first. You certainly can still use the Basic service absolutely for free, as in free beer. But long-term free users do not help the business. They've pulled back so that free users need to make a choice: either accept the limitations of the free service, subscribe to a paid tier, or move to a different note service. But again, they are not killing the free service, and claiming it is doesn't make it true..

If you feel like joining in the fun of speculating about Evernote's future, you should seek out the lengthy topic elsewhere in the forum about Evernote's new pricing. Other people feel as you do.

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>>> But long-term free users do not help the business. 

That is simply wrong statement. Free users do help long-term. They are the starting point for those who pay - just study the customer curve for any given product. 
It is adding new limitations to those who got onto a hook of the product during previous 5 years that do not help business. 

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4 hours ago, Sergey Kessel said:

>>> But long-term free users do not help the business. 

That is simply wrong statement. Free users do help long-term. They are the starting point for those who pay - just study the customer curve for any given product. 
It is adding new limitations to those who got onto a hook of the product during previous 5 years that do not help business. 

 
 
 

Wow, are you off base! For 8 very long years, Evernote has patiently supported and encouraged free-users. The company hoped the "starting-pointers" would eventually pay for the service. Evernote realized their former CEO's assumption was wrong. The new CEO is working to correct the mistake. Based on the gnashing of teeth by a few of these vocal long-term free-users, the new plan is having the intended effect.

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5 hours ago, Sergey Kessel said:

>>> But long-term free users do not help the business. 

That is simply wrong statement. Free users do help long-term. They are the starting point for those who pay - just study the customer curve for any given product. 
It is adding new limitations to those who got onto a hook of the product during previous 5 years that do not help business. 

True for products with trial periods.  Per @jbenson2 above, an infinite trial period was not working quite as well.  But even within that, anyone can still have all the benefits of Basic EN forever, just with the two concurrent device limitation.  Time will tell if this limitation increases the conversion rate.

Edited by csihilling
Fixed thought.
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If Evernote has a halfway decent management information set-up they will already have looked at the number of conversions to paid from free for 1,2,3,4,5-year free users and based their strategies on that.  Off the top of my head (ie I have no information at all on which to base this opinion,  just my mature technical judgement - :blink:) I'd guess that 1 & 2-year users top the polls on the basis that Evernote either clicks with you immediately and you want to get the added benefit of a paid subscription or you consider it worthwhile paying to support more development and continued existence,  or - as with me - you try it out initially and then don't use it much for a year or so until the penny eventually drops.

There may be later conversions in free years 3 and/ or 4,  but Evernote can only see the long term free user as a drain on resources no matter how much of an evangelist s/he may proudly claim to be.  A free account still syncs every 30 minutes or so for every device that is connected to it and uses as much time and bandwidth on the servers as a fully paid account,  and generates just as much support traffic - though that's now dealt with through the forums. 

Unless those free users are all using the referral scheme,  there's no record of whether they actually generate business through their activities - and if they are members of the referral scheme Evernote is paying them to get the better user experience.

There's a possible marketing benefit in Evernote being able to claim "200M users",  but if 150M of those are syncing 20+ times per day on an average of 3 devices (judging by comments here) without visible means of contributing actual dollar support that's a pretty steep overhead and a ridiculous number of transactions that Evernote's hardware has to be able to handle.

Evernote doesn't share this sort of information,  so who knows what sort of decision process they followed; but restricting access to two devices at the same time just reduced that overhead by 30%.  Seems like a sensible move to me - and it's one they can always revue at any time.

 

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13 hours ago, Sergey Kessel said:

>>> But long-term free users do not help the business. 

That is simply wrong statement. Free users do help long-term. They are the starting point for those who pay - just study the customer curve for any given product. 
It is adding new limitations to those who got onto a hook of the product during previous 5 years that do not help business. 

Yes? So where's the customer curve for the product we're discussing here?

In any case, a lot of the people so torqued about this change were *never* going to pay for the service. How does that help Evernote?

Oh, and thanks for distorting my statement: I said "long-term free users"; you said merely "free users". Not quite the same thing.

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It seems there might be a change in interpretation.  I just got an email intending to clarify the "it's ok to switch devices" policy stating:

   "Take it two at a time — Feel free to install Evernote on as many devices as you like. If you’re on a Basic account, you can log in from up to two devices at a time. Need to switch devices? Just log out from one and log in on the other."

However, this is a misrepresentation of what recently happened to me.  I logged onto my Basic account - sometime yesterday, I believe - and got a notice that if I didn't immediately REMOVE Evernote from the other (more than 2) devices, my account would be closed.  No mention at all of signing out. 

At the time I was on my computer (device 1) and my phone (device 2).  My tablet was not turned on. The 4th device was my (same) computer which had been reformatted so that "device" hadn't been accessed in months.

It seems the new policy in practice isn't fitting the stated policy.

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5 minutes ago, DTLow said:

You might review "device management" in your account settings to see how many devices are registered to your account

Thanks, I did already - that was the point.  B) 

Yes, I had 4 devices but I was only logged into 2. One of the others I hadn't even been on in months.

From my experience, it seems the "2-device login" is indeed being handled as a "2-device limit".

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10 hours ago, tonimb said:

It seems there might be a change in interpretation.  I just got an email intending to clarify the "it's ok to switch devices" policy stating:

   "Take it two at a time — Feel free to install Evernote on as many devices as you like. If you’re on a Basic account, you can log in from up to two devices at a time. Need to switch devices? Just log out from one and log in on the other."

However, this is a misrepresentation of what recently happened to me.  I logged onto my Basic account - sometime yesterday, I believe - and got a notice that if I didn't immediately REMOVE Evernote from the other (more than 2) devices, my account would be closed.  No mention at all of signing out. 

At the time I was on my computer (device 1) and my phone (device 2).  My tablet was not turned on. The 4th device was my (same) computer which had been reformatted so that "device" hadn't been accessed in months.

It seems the new policy in practice isn't fitting the stated policy.

This has been the issue from the start.  Forum posts from EN employees have consistently referenced the policy as two concurrent devices, log out of one to activate another.  The marketing on the other hand has made it seem like two devices period.  Poor communications on a good day, questionable and manipulative marketing on a bad day, IMO.

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I am using latest versions of OSX on a MacBook Pro and iMac and I am willing to migrate to Apple Notes. My problem is the note dates. When I import notes from Evernote to Apple Notes the original creation date is lost and I get the actual date of import. 

Any knowledge anybody? 

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2 hours ago, Stelios Gkavakis said:

I am using latest versions of OSX on a MacBook Pro and iMac and I am willing to migrate to Apple Notes. My problem is the note dates. When I import notes from Evernote to Apple Notes the original creation date is lost and I get the actual date of import. 

Any knowledge anybody? 

If import involves the use of Evernote .enex files, then the information is there; whatever method you're using to import must not be taking advantage of it (contact Apple support, maybe?). A web search did turn up this article though: https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-i-ditched-evernote-for-1286074947960886.html?ref=gs; maybe that will be helpful.

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17 hours ago, jefito said:

If import involves the use of Evernote .enex files, then the information is there; whatever method you're using to import must not be taking advantage of it (contact Apple support, maybe?). A web search did turn up this article though: https://www.yahoo.com/news/why-i-ditched-evernote-for-1286074947960886.html?ref=gs; maybe that will be helpful.

I export my notes as an .enex file and import them through the only way there is to import notes in Apple Notes. The import feature. What I get is all my notes as they should have been appart from their time stamps. They all get a time stamp of the time imported which is not what I want. 

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4 hours ago, Stelios Gkavakis said:

I export my notes as an .enex file and import them through the only way there is to import notes in Apple Notes. The import feature. What I get is all my notes as they should have been appart from their time stamps. They all get a time stamp of the time imported which is not what I want. 

As per @jefito, this is an issue you have to address with Apple - the import tool is not supported by Evernote

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Evernote, you're not exactly endearing me to you. I used to use Evernote a lot a few years back. Saved lots of things but rarely went back to study my notes. There's just something I don't like about the whole organising system.  The 2 device limit is the nail in the coffin. A Google Keep advanced would be great. 

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Having being using Evernote for years (Premium member from time to time) but the 2 devices limitation and the higher price are the last straw. Currently importing my notes into OneNote. Bye Bye Evernote. Think better next time.

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On 19/09/2016 at 4:07 AM, Hawkeye007 said:

That's a very old link - even the comments are 6 months old.  I think it's acknowledged that OneNote is the 'goto' alternative for unhappy Evernote users,  and most of those who were likely to make use of it have probably had a go at moving by now.  There's more up to date comment in the forum's MegaThread

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On September 18, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Hawkeye007 said:

Limiting free version to just 2 devices - practically means they wanna push out the free users.

How about adding the Pin feature to free accounts - What does that practically mean?

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On 9/18/2016 at 10:08 PM, Hawkeye007 said:

 

Limiting free version to just 2 devices - practically means they wanna push out the free users. 

More likely they'd like them to upgrade to a paid account, but sure, if the two simultaneously signed-in device limit is too onerous for some -- particularly those who would never pay -- then it seems they'll likely take that hit, yes. Let's just say that the device limitation sharpens the distinction between free and paid tiers, and makes it easier to choose what to do...

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I also think it is a bad idea, I have work computers as well and home computers tablet etc. It almost make evernote not usable for me. I had a premium account but cancelled it now. I feel forced to subscribe. 

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I have always loved evernote,  unfortunately also for me the 2 device limit is the reason I'm looking at using other programs. I am willing to pay, but current price is too much for what I use it for an also because there are other alternatives. I do not think it is smart that evernote introduces this limit, it is a  way to earn more money on the short term but in the same time they loose all the (marketing from) simple users who seem to talk enthusiastically about this product

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

+users that not even use extensively, but at least always talk enthusiastically about this program. Without them I think the program 

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On 2016-12-22 at 1:52 PM, Thafuz said:

I also think it is a bad idea, I have work computers as well and home computers tablet etc. It almost make evernote not usable for me. I had a premium account but cancelled it now. I feel forced to subscribe. 

 

On 2016-12-25 at 3:21 PM, edj said:

I have always loved evernote,  unfortunately also for me the 2 device limit is the reason I'm looking at using other programs. 

There is no device limit on paid subscriptions

The limit is on simultaneous devices.  

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Any word on if Evernote is going to remove the 2 device limit? I'm in the final stages of ditching Evernote because of this limit and switching over to Todoist or some other tool. Too bad, I always liked Evernote, but can't be limited to 2 devices. Pretty ridiculous.

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17 hours ago, AdkGuy said:

Any word on if Evernote is going to remove the 2 device limit? I'm in the final stages of ditching Evernote because of this limit and switching over to Todoist or some other tool. Too bad, I always liked Evernote, but can't be limited to 2 devices. Pretty ridiculous.

Probably not going to change, and it is two concurrent devices, not just two devices.

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Evernote...  You have lost a paying user.

My paid account recently expired and much to my surprise I was forced to pick 2 devices to sync.  I have always liked that I could go back to a free account if needed, but I use evernote on 4 devices regularly.  I don't love how notes are organized but I have always made it work.  With this latest change I will not be renewing my account and I have already ported all my notes to another application.

I am sure this won't kill Evernote, but it won't be my $$$ keeping them alive.

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7 hours ago, OzDone said:

My paid account recently expired and much to my surprise I was forced to pick 2 devices to sync.  I have always liked that I could go back to a free account if needed, but I use evernote on 4 devices regularly.  I don't love how notes are organized but I have always made it work.  With this latest change I will not be renewing my account and I have already ported all my notes to another application.

?? Let me get this straight -- you stopped paying and reverted to basic, and found out about the two concurrent device limit. So out of spite, you've decided to stop paying? But wait, you already stopped paying.

Ooookayyy...

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What @jefito said and it is two concurrent devices, not just two devices.  Log out of one to log into another.

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Totally short sighted view.

The whole purpose of having it is to be able to review my notes from anywhere. I am a photographer and use it to keep track of items. In the field I use my Android phone or Tablet and at home up to 3 pc's.

I think I have no alternative than to take this from Evernote and put under notes in OneNote.

What a pity as i was just starting to use it more and more.

Gareth

 

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5 hours ago, nicolgareth@gmail.com said:

What a pity as i was just starting to use it more and more.

...but not enough to actually pay,  which is the reason the limit was imposed..

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6 hours ago, nicolgareth@gmail.com said:

The whole purpose of having it is to be able to review my notes from anywhere. I am a photographer and use it to keep track of items. In the field I use my Android phone or Tablet and at home up to 3 pc's.

Again -- two concurrent devices: you can log out of Windows clients pretty easily.

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I was so frustrated by the newly imposed 2 device limit that I migrated my data to Microsoft Onenote and switched.  After using Onenote for several months and having major issues with notes not syncing properly between devices, I've returned to Evernote for a few of my basic notes that I can live with only syncing between two devices. In my experience, Evernote has been much simpler to use and more reliable than Onenote, but the 2 device limit, and more importantly how it was imposed after so many of us became reliant on the product still is a major turn off for me.

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8 hours ago, spudboss said:

I was so frustrated by the newly imposed 2 device limit that I migrated my data to Microsoft Onenote and switched.  After using Onenote for several months and having major issues with notes not syncing properly between devices, I've returned to Evernote for a few of my basic notes that I can live with only syncing between two devices. In my experience, Evernote has been much simpler to use and more reliable than Onenote, but the 2 device limit, and more importantly how it was imposed after so many of us became reliant on the product still is a major turn off for me.

This is now getting on for a year old and Evernote haven't shown any sign of changing their mind.  The arguments for and against were exercised to death already.  It seemed generally agreed that the whole thing was handled pretty badly,  but like with Microsoft recently closing down one of their apps completely it's a case of provider's game - provider's rules apply.

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Seriously reconsidering the 2 devices limit. You can lower the bandwidth to 50MB but make it sync to all devices. Won't be too long when all the users will slowly migrate to One Note. 

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Hi.  You're a little late to the party.  A limit of two devices at the same time doesn't stop you changing devices when you want.  And we've been explaining this for nearly a year now.  There still seem to be a lot of users hanging on...

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