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Glennie

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN

Idea

Every few days somebody requests some new feature .

And I think it is still the case that most people coming to this page don't really know how this works.

I have been a member since October 2014. I remember how I began sending in information about problems with the old web version. They were received with a great deal of interest, it seemed. But curiously, none of those problems were ever fixed. One that I remember very well, and I think has still not been fixed is that if you have a long note, scroll down to a certain point and then leave the text there for a while without doing anything on the page, at a given moment the page springs back up to page 1. If you are presenting to 100 students at university, this can be just a little embarrassing. At  Evernote they abundantly agreed with me: that really was a bad fault. 18 months later I went back for a while, till the same thing happened in class. Nothing had been done.

As far as this new version is concerned, our major achievements have been to get nested tags and stacks . And I think the idea was that we would all be so happy with that that we would forget things like merging notes or resizing images or all the other things that members have requested over the past year or so.

There was also one other improvement which I had been requesting for some time: that the size of the font did not change if you moved a piece of text (took for ever, incredible as it may sound).

The other major improvement was the addition of the link to GDrive, which I think nobody had actually requested, and I think there has been some improvement in speed.

That has been it. This page contains a very long list of requests (like a "dark" version for people with eye problems) that have never come to anything made by members who have rarely come back given the almost total lack of development of the Web version.

That is the way things are. Requesting things here is almost a total waste of time. And don't be fooled by the term "Beta": this is just the previous "New" version with a different label on the bottle.

As I have mentioned many times before, until Evernote sees that there is big money in the Web version (and that depends quite a lot on the fate of the Chromebooks, I guess), this will continue to be the poor relation of the Evernote family.

You can request as many things as you like, but you may as well just put those requests in a bottle and throw it out to sea. That's the way I see it.

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Hi @Glennie,

Thanks for writing in. To be frank, the web forums have gone uncommented for too long. I hear your frustration. Some requests we can't address because other priorities get in the way. Some requests are impossible given the size of our team and the effort involved. Some requests are on our backlog already. However, we should be telling you where things land. I can make a commitment to be a presence on the forums going forward and will respond to requests as they come up.

Evernote for web is and always will be a core platform for Evernote. We have an active development team that works on our web client and pushes updates on a weekly cadence. The web is very much alive, but a lot of that activity is in rebuilding things you can't see. We don't frequently announce public release notes because a lot of these changes we're working on are under the surface.

Evernote has not always prioritized the health of the web client. We aim to turn a corner. One of our goals for then next 12-18 months is bringing up the quality of the web application. We have an idea of where we want to head, but feedback and participation from this community helps us refine our direction and prioritize what comes next. 

TLDR; Thank you for your patience. Please keep the requests coming, we're listening. And stay tuned.

Best,
Karen
Product Manager, Evernote Web Client

P.S. @Glennie I'd find it valuable to talk further about your experiences using the web client. If you're open to it, I'd like to jump on a call or email thread to get your full story. I'll DM you.

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Thanks for the message Scruggles.

For me, this is the most important thing that you say: "However, we should be telling you where things land. I can make a commitment to be a presence on the forums going forward and will respond to requests as they come up."

The silence from Evernote on what is in the pipeline and what isn't in the pipeline (and maybe why not) is what creates a feeling of frustration and futility for me. 

If that silence is really about to come to an end, for me that is a very big step forward. :)

 

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42 minutes ago, Glennie said:

The silence from Evernote on what is in the pipeline and what isn't in the pipeline (and maybe why not) is what creates a feeling of frustration and futility for me. 

If that silence is really about to come to an end, for me that is a very big step forward. :)

 

I think most people agree about this.

Sure, there has clearly been some improvements in the communication on Evernote's part already in 2016, at least regarding the Windows platform.

However I still think that transparency about future improvements in itself should be a priority. Sure, there is a line when it comes to trade secrets etc. Even though I'm sure there would be a lot of users that would have expressed their disinterest in Evernote pursuing Work Chat, that was a strategy decision. The same goes for the recent collabs with Outlook and Google Drive.

But when it comes to if Evernote users prefer to have i.e. nested tags on iOS now or in 2 years, instead of X. Or if EN should prioritize to fix the everlasting bug that doesn't let you print text with italics or underline on Windows, I don't see why Evernote in the past hasn't cared to ask for customer inputs.

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@gustavgi, this is the place to bring those concerns up! As a rule, we tend not to share our roadmaps because they are predictions, not decisions about what we can build. We can't prioritize everything, but please continue to push for what you think we should place focus on.

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Data density.....We use Evernote to store lots of stuff and the web client does a great job of hiding most of it all the time. I'm all in favour of good design, but the best design gives function as well as form. 

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@Metrodon This is something we've been thinking about a lot - how do we show the *right* amount of information so you can see the highest ## of notes, but also disambiguate between notes? Do you have any specific problems or ideas you'd like to highlight?

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I never use the web version due to data density problems.

With the Evernote Desktop - I can see 30 note titles 
With the Evernote Web - I can only see 4 note titles (zoom is 100%)
 

Evernote desktop.png

 

Evernote web.png

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2 hours ago, scruggles said:

@Metrodon This is something we've been thinking about a lot - how do we show the *right* amount of information so you can see the highest ## of notes, but also disambiguate between notes? Do you have any specific problems or ideas you'd like to highlight?

@scruggles I think this about more than just how many notes...it's about how I view my notebooks, my tags, the choice of font colour, etc...I hate to say it, but if you compare it to the previous incarnation I don't thing it fairs well. We are being expected to pay Premium prices, my expectation is that all of the apps deliver a professional and featured experience. At the moment, the web app seems more like a toy.

 

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8 hours ago, jbenson2 said:

I never use the web version due to data density problems.

With the Evernote Desktop - I can see 30 note titles 
With the Evernote Web - I can only see 4 note titles (zoom is 100%)

Try this: at the top of the note list > Options > View Options > uncheck "show images", "show text". 

With a monitor and resolution that shows 7 note titles with both options checked, once I uncheck both, I can see 14 note titles. Not as good as the 36 note titles I can see in the desktop version, but certainly a huge improvement over 7.

I sort by date updated (newest first), and find that going from 7 to 14 is a help as it makes it easier to see/find notes that I'm currently working with. Going from 14 to 36, while a much larger increase, isn't as useful an increase as going from 7 to 14, as notes #15-36 are much less likely to be notes I need to access at the moment than notes #8-14.

My data density issue with the web browser version is the ridiculous amounts of white space on both sides of a note's content - this is especially the case when using a 22" or larger widescreen monitor. Margins are useful to help delineate space, but when the combined width of the margins is almost the width of the content, you know your Apple-influenced design has gotten out of hand. Chop both margins by 75% and give me that space for my note contents, or failing that, use the space to widen out the note list.

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11 hours ago, tavor said:

Try this: at the top of the note list > Options > View Options > uncheck "show images", "show text". 

I learned something new. By turning off images and text, it increases the number of note titles to 8.

Sorting by Updated Date won't work for me because I am frequently doing some house cleaning on older notes to ensure consistency (I have over 30,000 notes).

Thanks again for the tip and explanation.
 

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Hi @scruggles

 

On 6/24/2016 at 9:31 PM, scruggles said:

 

@gustavgi, this is the place to bring those concerns up! As a rule, we tend not to share our roadmaps because they are predictions, not decisions about what we can build. We can't prioritize everything, but please continue to push for what you think we should place focus on.

 

How about releasing a tentative roadmap with the tentative in bold and maybe a disclaimer that it is tentative? That should clear things up with people. The silence about what and if evernote is ever going to work on something is really bad. See this tweet for example that I did a few days back.

 

The exact same thing that is being mentioned here. I have encountered many bugs but don't report them because it feels like I am talking to a wall. I was thinking of trying premium for a lot of time, started a few days back and have encountered 4-5 bugs which I am not sure whether I should report or not because it seems like I am wasting my time by writing the stuff. 

Evernote should seriously consider posting a blog like JetBrains did. https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2015/09/04/we-are-listening/ because most of the people feel that Evernote is not listening.

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@aseembansal@ymail.com Nice idea, thanks for the feedback! I'll pass the thought along to the team. 

FYI If you have bugs that you've encountered, the best way to report those is by filing a CS ticket. If you're a premium customer, you should get a faster response time. While this forum can be a good way to surface those bugs, filing a ticket puts it in our backlog.

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scruggles / Karen - Kudos to you for your willingness and commitment to be a presence in the forums and respond to requests (as evidenced in this thread). 

I am empathetic and sympathetic to the challenge of changing an app, program, system, (generically, product) to the satisfaction of customers.

In my experience, the vast majority of customers will continue their support of a product leader and team that keeps the product moving forward, even if their pet request is not fulfilled. - - - I think this is the case with the EN users in this forum. Most are sufficiently serious, logical, and professional to support you.

Communications is, of course, a large part of it. Acknowledge customer requests. Tell them what you will be doing in the short term and do it.

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14 hours ago, scruggles said:

@aseembansal@ymail.com Nice idea, thanks for the feedback! I'll pass the thought along to the team. 

FYI If you have bugs that you've encountered, the best way to report those is by filing a CS ticket. If you're a premium customer, you should get a faster response time. While this forum can be a good way to surface those bugs, filing a ticket puts it in our backlog.

Hi

I contacted customer support and I got this. By this it does not look like it was placed on backlog. Or was it?

Quote

Nefre (Evernote Help and Learning)

Jul 7, 12:13 PDT

Hello again,

I checked further into moving shared notes across shared notebooks from the web and It’s confirmed that this is by design. There is a limitation of moving notes across shards from the browser. The desktop and mobile app versions can support these changes so it will require to do this from those applications.

As for saved searches on Android, 'save to home screen' is the way it saves the search. It will not save search in the search bar field as it does on the desktop app. So this is working by design.

As a workaround you could create the saved search from the desktop app first, then they will appear in your Android search field as a 'saved search'. At the moment saved searches cannot be created from the app in the traditional way.

Please let me know if you have any further questions or anything more I can assist you with.

Best Regards,
Nefre

 

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Hi @aseembansal@ymail.com! Got it - the issues you seem to be reporting may be issues that we already have on our to do list, but required some heavier lifting to fix. The various client teams are investing in our infrastructure so that we may stop having these cross-client inconsistencies. It takes considerable investment (i.e. time) to fix some of these issues, so I ask that you bear with us and stay tuned for updates.

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Hi @scruggles

I understand that it takes time if your infrastructure is not fine but at least pay attention to the highest voted posts here. Otherwise this just remains a joke.

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On 06/07/2016 at 8:53 PM, Metrodon said:

@scruggles I think this about more than just how many notes...it's about how I view my notebooks, my tags, the choice of font colour, etc...I hate to say it, but if you compare it to the previous incarnation I don't thing it fairs well. We are being expected to pay Premium prices, my expectation is that all of the apps deliver a professional and featured experience. At the moment, the web app seems more like a toy.

 

 

Metrodon, here's what I think:-

1. The previous Evernote Web was a full-function web app designed to replicate most/all the functionality of the desktop versions. In my opinion, this product worked great. For Chrome OS, Linux or the many users barred from locally installed software, this was the only option for them to use Evernote. Many people seemed to use and like this product.

2. When the Web Beta was announced and then launched, it was never clear why to me. Few if anybody had asked for such a product and I've the impression that few liked it once they'd used it. Why? Because whilst "beautiful" it was not a serious tool in comparison to the Evernote Web it was replacing, particularly in the areas of productivity, data density and just sheer usefulness. You've summed it up nicely: the new web app is like a "toy" compared to the prior version. Perhaps some users like this cut-down reinterpretation but it's clear from this forum that many do not: not primarily through reluctance to change but because it does not satisfy their functional requirements - requirements that the prior version did meet.

3. The conundrum was why had Evernote taken this step, replacing a serious tool with a less useful one, upsetting many long-standing users who relied on the functionality of the old version? My best guess is that the explanation lies in the new Evernote pricing policy that was announced in June, and which presumably had been planned for a long time. The device number restrictions could easily be circumvented if Evernote Web was full-fat rather than lite. By intentionally making Evernote Web a cut-down feature-light version, rather than a fully functional professional tool, Evernote does not need to worry much about people using the web app rather than subscribing to premium subscription. I'm sure that if the old web app had been maintained with approximate feature parity with the installed desktop version then Evernote would currently be seeing significant revenue "leakage" as people switched to the "unmetered" web app rather than subscribed for installed versions.

I should stress that these are my guesses, and I might be wrong*, but I'm yet to see a better explanation as to the direction Evernote took its web app: that of discarding a great and popular product, relied upon by many, leading to the impression of having "thrown users under the bus" in the process.

If I'm right then it's just really unfortunate that users who relied upon the web app (those unable to use a locally installed version, such as Chrome OS users, Linux users, or others for whom local installs are barred due to site policies) have been caught in the crossfire.

Also, if I'm right it means there's zero hope of seeing Evernote Web return to its status as a fully-featured alternative to the installed versions, since this could impact Evernote revenues unless Evernote moved to a more sophisticated licensing model than the current device count one.

I'm a Chromebook user so this is a disappointing conclusion for me but that's the way it is. Many/most Chromebooks will soon-ish be able to run Android apps so those users have a potential way forward. Others will just have to find alternatives. It's unfortunate but c'est la vie. As an aside, the persistence of complaints shows just how important a tool Evernote Web in its previous guise was to many users!

*NB if there's another coherent explanation as to how and why the new web app design came about I'd love to hear it. Maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick?

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What you suggest is shocking but not beyond the realms of possibility.

If it is true, nobody is ever going to admit to it, of course.

Let's see what happens in the "Scruggles" era. :) 

 

 

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I wouldn't see my guess as shocking. Businesses need to generate revenues and be profitable and that sometimes involves tough commercial decisions that leave some stakeholders unhappy. For example Google ditching Google Reader left many people upset but Google was perfectly entitled to do that. Of course, goodwill is not an unlimited well to be drawn from so businesses must be careful. At least there still is an Evernote web app, albeit a lot less useful IMO, and which remains free to use.

The situation could be worse :)

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Personally, I don't think what you are suggesting is correct.

The new web app development started under the previous regime and I think was more about having a 'cool' UI than anything else. The new pricing etc is definitely the new regime at work.

Either way, it leaves those of us who use the web app hobbled by it's lack of data density and functionality.

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As far as I can remember the new UI came along with the idea of the Work Chat.

The idea was that Evernote notes were going to become spaces in which people would create (on the wide open spaces of the new UI) and share and then create some more and share etc.

Not sure if many people are actually doing that.

There seemed to be less emphasis on the idea of using Evernote to store things efficiently and more on the idea of it being a communication tool. All very strange given that very few had been using Evernote for that purpose...what they loved was the possibility Evernote provided of curating the web in a way that was very efficient. It was about them creating their own very accessible hoard of goodies for future use....most of the time working alone.

But then the creative space hasn't really been developed either ...no tables formatting, no ability to resize images...it's like the Web version is stuck between two stools.

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Ok Metrodon, happy to be corrected! The device number licensing restrictions would seem to suggest that Evernote Web won't be seeing any major functionality upgrades though.

Glennie, it does appear Evernote saw the old Evernote Web as expendable: rather than develop an entirely new product to deliver the functionality you're describing, they attempted to morph Evernote Web into becoming that new product, with little regard for the many existing users who relied upon a full-function Evernote experience delivered via the browser.

So far as I can tell, the new Evernote Web isn't popular with many people. What a waste of development resources and money that's been, therefore. Add in all the disgruntled users of the old web app who feel cast aside and it's hard not to conclude that the strategy has been disastrous. Also, since the web app doesn't generate revenue directly (unless I'm mistaken?) then I cannot see it being developed long term. We shall see.

 

 

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Am looking at OneNote and like what I see. Am going to give it a try.

Can't export my Evernote Web App content, but I can live with that.

Have the feeling we could go on for ever here and never get anywhere.  

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On 6/7/2016 at 8:06 PM, jbenson2 said:

I never use the web version due to data density problems.

With the Evernote Desktop - I can see 30 note titles 
With the Evernote Web - I can only see 4 note titles (zoom is 100%)
 

Evernote desktop.png

 

Evernote web.png

It's true, only four. But those four are presented so beautifully! Isn't that what is important? The style! The elegance! You could make wallpaper from that tasteful list of notes! To hell with rapid access to information! That's so old-fashioned! :D:D:D:D:D

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9 hours ago, Glennie said:

It's true, only four. But those four are presented so beautifully! Isn't that what is important? The style! The elegance! You could make wallpaper from that tasteful list of notes! To hell with rapid access to information! That's so old-fashioned! :D:D:D:D:D

:D Just want this post to remain on top of the forum so that people see it.

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On 7/6/2016 at 0:54 PM, scruggles said:

@Metrodon This is something we've been thinking about a lot - how do we show the *right* amount of information so you can see the highest ## of notes, but also disambiguate between notes? Do you have any specific problems or ideas you'd like to highlight?

 
 
 

For me, you guys were doing it right with the first version where you had the same set up view as you did on the desktop. Perhaps add the F10 and F11 (in Windows) to the web version so if we wanted to hide the left and note panels, we could. I believe that the web version needs to be comparable to the desktop, if possible. The fact that I can't filter through my tags and 'drill down' through them like I can on the desktop makes using the web version pointless for me. My brother who just recently started using Evernote started off with the web version and that's all he knew until I showed him what the desktop version could do and he was wondering why he was still using the web version. I actually wouldn't mind using the web version alone but it's just not comparable to the desktop. When the second version came out of beta a year or two ago, I felt like it came out of beta unfinished and still feels that way.

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When I began with Evernote years ago, I started with Snippet view, which I think was the default. But like others, I like to maximize my screen real estate, so I finally settled on Top List view and have been using that for a very long time. For me, to switch to the web version, the difference is so glaring, it is distracting to use. 

Also, for me, who spends hours a day on the same laptop, I don't really understand any advantage of using the web version over the desktop version. It would be interesting to know what percentage of people use the web version for the majority of the time. 

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I would love to see Evernote web evolve into a more power tool for writers.  Take a look at the feature set of Scrivener and that should provide you with some ideas of what writers are looking for.  Word count would be a great place to start!

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I notice the way in which the requests continue to pile up.

"This would be nice"..."that would be good"...."here's a suggestion"...

________

From 22 April: "Hey folks! We are happy to announce that last night we began rolling out a new editing experience for Chrome and Safari."

From here: https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/234-web-product-feedback/: "One thing to remember: popularity does not mean implementation. Our forums are one component of the decisions we make, and while a bunch of ideas have merit, we need to be selective and always balancing priorities. "

The last release notes we have seen : 7/7

_________

We haven't exactly seen a lot since the 22 April announcement have we? The least we might have expected would be some sort of comeback on the request for a dark theme given that this is has to do with users with visual impairment. So it is a kind of humanitarian thing.  It was first requested on October 31, 2013. There are 283 replies in the thread. It has 32 votes... 

I think what happens on this forum is that users come on without ever looking at how the forum works (= we make the requests and then Evernote basically ignores them but occasionally makes little hope-raising moves like the invention of the Beta not long ago...just to keep us interested) and optimistically add yet another request. Then they go away again. So the forum is an enormous pile of requests, almost all ignored. 

It's an absurd situation.  Surely one for a PhD thesis. 

Why do I keep writing? 

Out of a sense of outrage, basically. Outrage at this scandalous and spurious consultation process. Just to let the Evernote people know that they are not just dealing with a group of starry-eyed teenagers who will believe just about anything they read if it seems to have some bells and whistles hanging on it.

There are mature, intelligent people writing on this forum, many of whom are paying for a product which almost never seems to get any better, and Evernote is not fooling them one little bit. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Glennie

My two cents:

I think a lot of it has to do with the money side of things. I don't think they raised their pricing just for the fun of it. To survive, they had to raise them and I'm sure they hated to have to do that. Since development is at such a slow rate, to me, it's apparent that they don't have the financial resources that we expect from companies like Google and MIcrosoft. I think we need to see if things improve in the next year or so to see if the pricing change helped or hurt them. I don't think they are doing this on purpose though. At the start, they had the money to make great things happened but they lost their focus (and their way). However, with new management, I'm willing to give them some time to see if they can rebound. I just don't think that time has happened yet.

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On 8/17/2016 at 1:20 AM, Glennie said:

There are mature, intelligent people writing on this forum, many of whom are paying for a product which almost never seems to get any better, and Evernote is not fooling them one little bit. 

 
 

Here is a mature, intelligent person writing on this forum who has paid for Evernote. I have seen 117 significant improvements on the product. And Evernote is not fooling me one little bit. Each of these improvements includes something that is needed. For example, the most recent improvement involves editing improvements such as the Note Merge options - that allows me to customize my separator bars with merged notes.  Awesome feature. Evernote does get better.

Evernote improvements.png

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For what it's worth on the very narrow sub-issue discussed here about the new Evernote Web:

Those who don't like the new Evernote Web version can easily (and have always been able to) revert back to the old version unhindered by visiting their Settings page. For functions the new Evernote Web doesn't have, I frequently revert back for periods of time to the old Evernote Web to get along when I'm not at my computer/laptop (and my phone app lacks the feature also).

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55 minutes ago, Ray Sidney-Smith said:

For what it's worth on the very narrow sub-issue discussed here about the new Evernote Web:

Those who don't like the new Evernote Web version can easily (and have always been able to) revert back to the old version unhindered by visiting their Settings page. For functions the new Evernote Web doesn't have, I frequently revert back for periods of time to the old Evernote Web to get along when I'm not at my computer/laptop (and my phone app lacks the feature also).

Not actually true - if you've opened an account fairly recently (in the last year?), then you don't have access to the old (functional) web client.

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2 hours ago, Metrodon said:

Not actually true - if you've opened an account fairly recently (in the last year?), then you don't have access to the old (functional) web client.

That's unfortunate for new Evernote users! I just created a demo account and tried to browse to https://www.evernote.com/Settings.action?disableBeta= to see if I could disable the beta version and it didn't work. I wonder if an Evernote Basic user could request Evernote Support to "revert" their account back to the old Web client. Thanks for clarifying, @Metrodon

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On 8/25/2016 at 3:53 AM, Ray Sidney-Smith said:

That's unfortunate for new Evernote users! I just created a demo account and tried to browse to https://www.evernote.com/Settings.action?disableBeta= to see if I could disable the beta version and it didn't work. I wonder if an Evernote Basic user could request Evernote Support to "revert" their account back to the old Web client. Thanks for clarifying, @Metrodon

I had tried that on an account. Seriously they should allow that as long as they don't make the new interface properly functional. @scruggles something to consider.

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19 hours ago, Aseem Bansal said:

I had tried that on an account. Seriously they should allow that as long as they don't make the new interface properly functional. @scruggles something to consider.

 

I think to do so would be a tacit acknowledgement that the new Evernote Web is flawed - which we believe it is - and hence involve owning up to having made a big mistake.

In my experience few businesses like to own up to their mistakes; which is ironic, because on the few occasions when they do their customers usually respect them for having the guts to do it. Everyone makes mistakes, and it's how you respond to them that provides the measure of you.

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My guess is that implementing the new editor and the associated functionality in the old app was at some point decided to be too difficult. So, the new app was born. Unfortunately, I don't think there is any chance of the new editor being wrapped into the old app and at the current glacial rate it's going to take forever to make the new app functional. That's if they are even at all interested in getting the new app as functional as the old one.

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Would there be a chance to add a sort option for reminders by due date only? Today, they are first sorted by notebook which can not be switched off.

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On 6/23/2016 at 1:57 PM, scruggles said:

Evernote has not always prioritized the health of the web client. We aim to turn a corner. One of our goals for then next 12-18 months is bringing up the quality of the web application. We have an idea of where we want to head, but feedback and participation from this community helps us refine our direction and prioritize what comes next. 

This was posted mid 2016, it's almost 2019, the web client still seems pretty stagnant.

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19 minutes ago, Kruger2147 said:

This was posted mid 2016, it's almost 2019, the web client still seems pretty stagnant.

There's currently a beta version available for testing.  It still seems like a long term process for the web app.

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