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Nesting Multiple Notebooks / Creating Sub-Notebooks

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Nested tags in the UI can help "visually" but structured tags make the hierarchy.

 

- myBook

-- myBook:ch1

-- myBook:ch2

...

if you want all note about the book -> tag:myBook*

And you can use the "parent tag", myBook, for the book itself.

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I meant suppose I want to tag myBook with real tags such as "history", "19th century", and "us presidents". Since the myBook tag exists as a tag to shoehorn the tagging system into a navigation system, and since tags themselves can't have tags, then i don't see a way to do it.

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I meant suppose I want to tag myBook with real tags such as "history", "19th century", and "us presidents". Since the myBook tag exists as a tag to shoehorn the tagging system into a navigation system, and since tags themselves can't have tags, then i don't see a way to do it.

 

It can take a while to get used to a flat filing system,  but it's no less flexible than any other - just different.  You could use a randomly generated password as a title/tag (©BnF) - my LastPass just gave me "pP3lVOa1" - so your hierarchy runs -

 

<pP3lVOa1> <19c> <presidents>

   <pP3lVOa1 - chapter 01>

   <pP3lVOa1 - chapter 02>

   etc..

 

And by using the TOC feature (in some - all?? - clients) you can create an index of chapters / sections with direct links to those notes.

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Ok, I didn't understand what you meant Kevin.

 

There must be several ways to do that, it depends of what you want to do with notes.

You can have one index note per book. You can use it as a summary and TOC for other notes relative to the book...and you can give this index notes thematic tags.

 

Tags you can also organize with nested tags & hierarchy, or you can just use  keywords at the beginning of the notes... the hardest thing IMO with EN is often to make a choice.

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A tagging system makes sense if you think of the whole system as a collection of completely independent notes. You create a note, you add the tags, you search for tags to find what you want.

 

But it doesn't make as much sense if you consider the notes to be related to each other. 

??? Tags can be obviously used to show a relationship between notes. In fact, that's really a defining characteristic of tags.

 

Now they may not easily be able to express all of the relationships between notes that some users want to express, but that's a different matter. In your case, you could have a tag for the book, and a number of generic tags for Chapter1, Chapter2, Section1, Section2, etc. Apply as needed. This would give you ordering, but you can certain search on "tag:MyBook tag:Chapter3 tag:Section*", say, to pull out all of the sections in chapter 3 of your book. Somewhat equivalently, you could just make your book into a notebook, with the generic tags as before.

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jefito, your solution sounds like object-oriented CSS. You have to repeat the entire ancestral tag lineage on every single note. Could get tedious.

 

Also, search results are returned in alphabetical tag order, are they not? So if you want any kind of ordering of the child content relative to the parent, you have to number the tags.

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jefito, your solution sounds like object-oriented CSS. You have to repeat the entire ancestral tag lineage on every single note. Could get tedious.

 

Also, search results are returned in alphabetical tag order, are they not? So if you want any kind of ordering of the child content relative to the parent, you have to number the tags.

That's not my solution; that's just a workaround used by some users. I don't use it myself, but it's a possibility, and it does have some search advantages with judicious use of the wildcard ('*').

 

Search results are ordered in whatever way your note list is ordered (I use Created date, reversed almost all the time). But no, you wouldn't get any ordering based on tag name, unless you were in list view, sorting by tags, which is supported in some Evernote clients (Windows, for one).

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@kevind3207,

 

FWIW, presented with what I think you are trying to accomplish and EN as the tool:

  1. I would create a tag for the name of the book
  2. Assuming a chapter per note I would title each note "Chapter xx - Whatever the title of the chapter is to be"
  3. Tag each chapter note with the book title tag
  4. Create a TOC note from a search and bulk select on the title tag, as needed

One tag, note titles, and the TOC function.  

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Bump for a key feature missing in Evernote ..

 

  • Development
    • Visual Studio
      • Visual Basic
      • C#
    • Work-Related
      • Projects
      • HR Docs
      • Meetings
    • Android Studio
      • Guides
      • Projects
      • Templates

...etc

 

  Missing this key feature strays me from Evernote to use other programs (that all seem to contain subfolder heirarchy's except Evernote)

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Bump for a key feature missing in Evernote ..

 

  • Development
    • Visual Studio
      • Visual Basic
      • C#
    • Work-Related
      • Projects
      • HR Docs
      • Meetings
    • Android Studio
      • Guides
      • Projects
      • Templates

...etc

 

  Missing this key feature strays me from Evernote to use other programs (that all seem to contain subfolder heirarchy's except Evernote)

 

You did notice that the (Evernote's choice) Best Answer in this thread is from 2008?  And since it mentions nested tags but not notebooks,  rather suggests that they aren't interested?  Lots of discussion in the forums if you search...

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We take every request in the forums as a feature request, yes.

Could you provide more information about how you see the difference? What is the task you want to accomplish with hierarchical notebooks that you can't do with hierarchical tags?

 

Although tags are allowing me to mimic certein heirarchial structures in some regard...

I would like to see visible 'clickable tags' in the notebook pain....

I would like to 'earmark-colourcode' say 4 (or more) tags in a certain notebook... that when clicked on it 'that context' will take me directly to that 'sub-folder'.

This would work on the listing view in notebook pain... when clicking to select a notebook... I can see the earmarked tags visible... And I can 1 click and get directly to them..

Just a thought. Hard to explain exactly what I mean...

But that would make my personal experience better, and i think allow any user to create a hierarchial visible structure without impacting Evernote's 'style' or feel...

 

The reason for this is that although I use heirarchial 'sub-folders' with tags in some notebooks... I dont do it in all.. Also I might use some form of heirarchial-tag system in a specific notebook... But I also use tags that dont support heirarchial sorting of sorts... So when I need to sort and find a tag it is mostly by memory. Visually All the relevant tags to that notebook are mixed with the rest of the tags, which kills the heirarchy a bit...

 

If I could 'ear-mark' certain tags specific to a notebook I would be able to easily get to the 'sub-folder' if I so chose visually and not dependent on memory. The ability to even have those tags come out on top in that specific notebook or be colour coded (red for eg.) would make it more powerfull.

 

I realise this may be a more 'advanced feature... That needs to be in beded in the software...

 

But when users maintain that they want sub-folders... And they come to these forums or elsewhere..

We will be able to say YES! you can mimmick subfolders exactly the way you want them visually... If you set it up in a certain way, using already available tools on evernote. With an extra revelance/organisation mechanism.

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Bump for a key feature missing in Evernote ..

 

  • Development

    • Visual Studio

    • Visual Basic
    • C#
  • Work-Related

    • Projects
    • HR Docs
    • Meetings
  • Android Studio

    • Guides
    • Projects
    • Templates

...etc

 

  Missing this key feature strays me from Evernote to use other programs (that all seem to contain subfolder heirarchy's except Evernote)

Same here. I use CarbonFin. It organizes limitless nested sub-notes or sub-folders and visually shows their relationship and hierarchy.. I'd like to switch to Evernote because CarbonFin does not allow graphics. But since I have accumulated hundreds of notes (like IT project outlines, clients requests/ resolutions) over the years, if I were to lose their relationship and hierarchy, I'd be lost in them.

How can I be notified if Evernote develops an update that offers Nested Sub-Notes with Visual Hierarchy display?

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Well I'm sure the technology press would report it, it would be a big deal because it seems to be contrary to Evernote's design ethos.

 

I'm pretty sure it's never going to happen.

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Wow!  After nearly 7 years, and 715 posts, this thread is still active with many, many users asking for hierarchical Notebooks (sub-Notebooks).  There remain a few users who consistently argue against Evernote providing this feature.

 

I will concede that after all this time, it seems unlikely that Evernote will ever provide hierarchical Notebooks.

But that does not alter the fact that it is a very valid request made by many, many users.

 

IMO, it boils down to each person's mindset.  Some see a natural organization that is hierarchical, as in parent-child.

We, the human race, have been organizing our information like this for centuries, if not thousands of years.

Others, don't seem to grasp the value of hierarchical organization.  And that's fine -- no one is trying to force you to use that approach.

 

Both hierarchical Notebooks and Tags have their place, and are very useful.  

We should be allowed to choose the method we prefer.

 

The below quote from 2008 seems to sum it up very well:

 

 

I am a little frustrated. There are a few people who come on here and they simply say that because we want subnotebooks, we aren't using tags correctly. Clearly, as the argument seems to go, we don't know what we really want, and the problem is that we just don't know how to use the software correctly. If we did,then we'd be happy with tags and there'd be no problem.

You, people who like tags and don't want subnotebooks, don't need to understand. If/when we get subnotebooks as a feature, you are welcome to not use them. However, please stop telling us that we don't need this feature. Obviously, we see a need for it.

I like tags. I use tags. But tags will not replace my need for notebooks. Unlike Missdipsy,my notes do not transfer from one class to another. Even if I read the same case for two classes, specific rule that I need to get out of it is different. There is exactly 0 overlap. I do not anticipate that changing.

Now, could I,if I tried hard enough, make tags work for me in the way that I want it? Yeah, I probably could. But, here's the thing. At the end of the semester, I need to do something with my notes. I don't need my torts notes anymore, but can't get rid of them because I will need them for the bar. So, I need a way to keep them out of the way. With tags, they are still floating around. I don't want to clutter up my life, and I don't want to clutter up my software.

Here's the bottom line: If tags work for you, mazel tov. Stop telling those of us who want the subnotebooks that we're wrong. Obviously, tags do not serve the purpose that we want. Tags will not replace notebook categorization for me. What's more, by telling me how wrong I am, you make me want to try and see your side even less. I have even less interest now in trying to make tags work for me. You don't need to understand our reasoning. If you don't want subnotebooks, fine. This is not the thread for you; please move on.

 

 

 

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Wow!  After nearly 7 years, and 715 posts, this thread is still active with many, many users asking for hierarchical Notebooks (sub-Notebooks).  There remain a few users who consistently argue against Evernote providing this feature.

Really? Who? Do try to be specific when making vague claims like this.

Anyways, yawn. Nothing new to see here. Most of us who are still here accept that hierarchical schemes have some use in this world, and that requesting them is valid, and have said as much. Hardly anyone is actually arguing against Evernote having them. About as far as folks go is to try to see whether those who request them can use tags instead, because that's what's available in the here and now.

 

Short form: if you need hierarchies as your organizational principle, and tags don't do it for you, then you'll need to choose another product at this time. Evernote has the right to choose the design of their product. Users have the right to choose to not use Evernote. After 7 years and 716 posts, that's still valid.

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Wow!  After nearly 7 years, and 715 posts, this thread is still active with many, many users asking for hierarchical Notebooks (sub-Notebooks).  There remain a few users who consistently argue against Evernote providing this feature.

Really? Who? Do try to be specific when making vague claims like this.

Anyways, yawn. Nothing new to see here. 

 

 

 

Don't know what you mean by "yawn".  Do try to be specific when making vague claims like this.

 

If this is boring to you, then why bother posting a reply that adds no value?

 

If you don't get the significance of many users continuing to request this feature after 7 years, then I don't think anyone can explain it to you.

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It's really not worth having an argument about.

 

This feature doesn't exist, to implement it would obviously require a considerable effort and Evernote have made it pretty clear a number of times that they don't intend to do so as they believe (for better or worse, I'm making no judgement) that a tagging solution will work better in this application.

 

This is the current situation and is likely to be the situation for the foreseeable future. 

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I think the major significance is that with 100M+ users

 

1) Lots of new users think "what happened to folders?" and post here without checking the history,  and 

2) "Significance" would be more than .01% of users leaping up and down and requesting folders - and that'd be 1,000 posts here,  not just the dozen or so who've griped about it and gone away...

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Wow!  After nearly 7 years, and 715 posts, this thread is still active with many, many users asking for hierarchical Notebooks (sub-Notebooks).  There remain a few users who consistently argue against Evernote providing this feature.

Really? Who? Do try to be specific when making vague claims like this.

Anyways, yawn. Nothing new to see here.

 

 

Don't know what you mean by "yawn".  Do try to be specific when making vague claims like this.

 

If this is boring to you, then why bother posting a reply that adds no value?

 

If you don't get the significance of many users continuing to request this feature after 7 years, then I don't think anyone can explain it to you.

And after nearly 7 years, there are those who regularly misquote what other users have said in order to fit their own agenda. Sad, but true. As requested, please cite where anyone (ANYONE) has argued against EN adding this feature. Otherwise, you look like a fool.

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It's hard to say what Evernote will or will not do.

 

Here are some features, that many said would never happen, but were added after many users kept on requesting them:

  1. Stacks (in response to the early requests for hierarchical notebooks)
  2. Note links
  3. Editing of images within Evernote

For anyone who doesn't think it will ever happen and who don't see the need, feel free to just ignore this thread.

For those who do see the need, feel free to keep on requesting it.

 

But any post has the effect of bumping this thread to the top of the list, making it more visible.  :)

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It's hard to say what Evernote will or will not do.

 

Here are some features, that many said would never happen, but were added after many users kept on requesting them:

  • Stacks (in response to the early requests for hierarchical notebooks)
  • Note links
  • Editing of images within Evernote
For anyone who doesn't think it will ever happen and who don't see the need, feel free to just ignore this thread.

For those who do see the need, feel free to keep on requesting it.

 

But any post has the effect of bumping this thread to the top of the list, making it more visible.  :)

And after nearly 7 years, there are those who regularly ignore requests to back up what they say.

 

 

Wow!  After nearly 7 years, and 715 posts, this thread is still active with many, many users asking for hierarchical Notebooks (sub-Notebooks).  There remain a few users who consistently argue against Evernote providing this feature.

Really? Who? Do try to be specific when making vague claims like this.

Anyways, yawn. Nothing new to see here.

 

 

Don't know what you mean by "yawn".  Do try to be specific when making vague claims like this.

 

If this is boring to you, then why bother posting a reply that adds no value?

 

If you don't get the significance of many users continuing to request this feature after 7 years, then I don't think anyone can explain it to you.

If there is seven years worth of posts by people arguing "against Evernote providing this feature", surely you can dredge up at least one post...??? Rather than just flapping your proverbial gums.

YAWN.

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I want to see more Heirarchial structures.

 

I would like to see it in the form of 'ear-marked' tags... Where I can earmark some specific tags to Notebooks that show up next to the Notebooks in Notebook Pain.

 

Essentially just tags with extra functionality. I.e. little red tags.. That visibly show next to the notebook I earmarked them to..

 

A visible hierarchy just like stacks with "clickability' to get to that 'subdivision' within the notebook they are earmarked to..... Nothing more... 

 

I think if they do that right they can satisfy the often requested sub-notebook. feature, without running from Evernote's tagging model.

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I was just reviewing some of my Notes in Evernote, and I ran across this 2010 Evernote Blog that I found very interesting.

 

Posted by Andrew Sinkov on 27 Apr 2010

 

Here is an excerpt on a question about "subfolders", which really means Sub-Notebooks:

[Question by ThinkWasabi]:

WHEN WILL SUCH HIGHLY DEMANDED CAPABILITIES AS SUBFOLDERS BECOME AVAILABLE? WILL WE SEE A LINUX VERSION SOON?

 
[Answer by CEO Phil Libin]:
Subfolders are in big demand! The other day, we had users submit questions on our blog and I answered over 150 of them. Subfolders were probably the most requested feature. We had originally hoped that nested tags would be good enough, but it looks like people want more. We’re trying to design subfolders now (many people want them, but few agree on how they should work) and will decide on how this feature fits into our roadmap soon.

 

Unfortunately this only led to "Stacks", and not the full hierarchical Notebooks that most wanted.

 

Still, it's a great acknowledgement by Evernote of the high popularity of this feature.

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Less than 2 years after it launched and with way fewer users,  it's possible most of those requests were coming from new users who were still wedded to the traditional folder system.  Since then it's either proven much harder than was originally thought to crowbar the existing code into allowing multiple levels of folder,  or a growingly sophisticated user-base lost interest in the topic and got distracted into other areas. Either way,  the basic facts remain:  despite being discussed in circles here for 37 pages,  multi-level folders didn't happen (yet).  

 

Meantime I'd far rather see rock-solid syncs / no freezes / faster and better searches (amongst many other things) at the top of the agenda.

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Meantime I'd far rather see rock-solid syncs / no freezes / faster and better searches (amongst many other things) at the top of the agenda.

 

I totally agree with this.  Sync must be rock-solid, and searches must provide the same results across all platforms.

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Product limitation on being able to have a simple and easy way to NEST / Sub folder / Visually Hierarchal Tree information  is still a hugh issue with in the tool set!!!!

 

1) Love Evernote

2) Off and on user for 4 plus years - Forced myself to consolidated my daily use to Evernote for about 18 months. (Good days and AHHHHHH days but good ones have been enough to keep me on task as my daily tool)

3) Lack of true and simple nesting has always been a chalange (and a huge impact to effective time usage. Eg wasted enegery trying to use new options in combinations with old options to meet my orginizational needs, and wasted time just accessing / searching for information due to the lack of this)

4) OS and Device Platform support has meet the need with Sync

5) Recent quaility Improvements (past 12 Months):

     a) Stacks and Stack managment has been a blesing

     B) Web Clipping and Clearly have been great adds and it is always great to see these things improve and spread accros Platforms (OS, Device & Browsers)

     c) Intergrations with other tools / applications

     d) Syncrozation and options on correcting or forcing resync have been better over the last 6 months.

     e) Ability to intergrate other MutilMedia information types directly into a note rather than just a link has bee helpful need ability to do both Consolidate info as well as link to info.

     f) Sharing info - Chat - This is one of those ""Improvements to Sharing"" information that for me has been nothing less than AHHHHHHHHHHH trying to make it work for our needs. Still happy to see development in this space hower to me the simple truth is just improve the sharing options to meet the need rather than pull in another area of technology that should not be inside the tool but linked to other tools that provide that service and a better way to improve the intergtation to those or between those tools and improvments to just the existing evernote functions for sharing information.

 

Ok enough of the background, bottom line I have read for years how the under line Evernote product concept has been built and the redirection of how to drastically change how one should orginize information and brain wave patterns as well as how the future for this space looks like potentially even more of a new land scape. The underlying fact is efficancy and ability to be effective with tons of data at our finger tiips in the extend world of the internet and how that relates to our need to have a more limited set of that information captured or tracked at our disposal in a managed structure and potentially off net access.

 

I dont know how many times (or how many hours) I have tried to leverage Tags, Notebooks, Stacks, Links & Notes to meet my simple need for nesting or relating information together so its relation ship is not lost and is easly managed. But as I went through the delimigh again this morning I decided I should chime in to say from a concept view it is absoltely simple to see that nesting either Stacks or Notebooks is the simple solution. I dont know from a code base how difficult this would be for Evernote but to me it seems to not be a code issue but much more of a product managment and physlophy of how is the best way to orginize information!!!!

 

So to summarize Please Please Please keep consideration for enableing the abilty to nest information more than just 3 levels in sight!!!!!  For me personally if I just had about 3 more levels I would be about 40% more effictive!!!! with this kind of information.

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Yes, yes, I cry out for nested notebooks/notestacks, just like nested file folders in any OS. For a simple reason--it's just so intuitive, logical, and natural way to org the files/notes. By contrast nested tags would suffer limited functionality and they are certaily NOT intuitive and logical.

I hope these numerous requests are heard and Evernote will get this feature churned out soon.

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So:  I have a scanned receipt for my car insurance.  Do I file it under Personal > Car > Insurance?  Or under Insurance > Car > Personal?  Or Expenses > Car? 

 

Or should I just file the thing and add Personal / Car / Insurance / Expenses as tags and find it any way I search?

 

If I missed my nested folder structure,  I could nest tags in similar ways,  but that's just a convenience.  Or you could have tags nested under A, B, C so your tags window is 26 lines long,  and you can look up names quickly.

 

Nested folders aren't efficient or logical.  Tags are far simpler and more flexible.  Just my opinion.

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Yes, yes, I cry out for nested notebooks/notestacks, just like nested file folders in any OS. For a simple reason--it's just so intuitive, logical, and natural way to org the files/notes.

Nested notebooks/folders are anything but intuitive or logical, for the reasons Gaz mentioned above. Jefito's classic example is if I have a red, round, rubber ball, do I file it under things that are red? Things that are round? Things that are rubber? Things that are toys? This becomes more complex the more notes you have. If you have only a few hundred notes, then it may be pretty easy to retrieve them by digging around in nested notebooks/folders. But if you have tens of thousands of notes, it becomes a nightmare. If we came out of the womb knowing to use nested notebooks/folders, then it would seem applications like Mac's Finder or Windows Locate32 or Everything would be useless.

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Jefito's classic example 

Does "classic" mean old? :)

 

Anyways, "intuitive" is a frequently misused and misunderstood term; this is all learned behavior here. And tags and hierarchies are both logical constructs -- there's nothing illogical about tags.

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Nested folders aren't efficient or logical.  . . .  Just my opinion.

 

@Gaz:  You should add "to me".  But then you did add "Just my opinion".  Same thing I guess.   :)

 

As has been stated numerous times, nested folders (AKA sub-notebooks) are very logical and efficient to some of us, especially for some use cases.  Organization of projects is just one clear example.

 

I think this directly relates to a statement often made by many of us:  We should each be able to organize our information in a way that best suits him/herself.  Some would like and use sub-notebooks, others might not.

 

I'd like to add that BOTH sub-notebooks and tags have their place in organizing info.

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what i would like to see is the ability to create a stack with in a stack. ex.....

Receipts - stack
my receipts - stack
march 2015 - notebook
april 2015 - notebook
wifes receipts - stack
march 2015 -notebook
april 2015 - notebook
 

under the Receipts stack i want to have a stack for me and a stack for my wife. and under each of our personal stacks i want to create a notebook for each month. so when i scan a receipt this month it gets put in the notebook for this month. this would help in keeping things alot more organized. 

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what i would like to see is the ability to create a stack with in a stack. ex.....

Receipts - stack

my receipts - stack

march 2015 - notebook

april 2015 - notebook

wifes receipts - stack

march 2015 -notebook

april 2015 - notebook

 

under the Receipts stack i want to have a stack for me and a stack for my wife. and under each of our personal stacks i want to create a notebook for each month. so when i scan a receipt this month it gets put in the notebook for this month. this would help in keeping things alot more organized. 

 

That would be nice... but a (heck of a nice) workaround for now might be to:

  1. Create a Receipts Stack with a notebook for each month and tag yours and your wife's receipts accordingly. You can easily filter by tag. 
  2. OR... create a Receipts Stack with a notebook for both you and your wife... and then tag receipts according to month
  3. OR... create one notebook called "Receipts" and tag yours and you wife's receipts according to "his" and "hers"...  as well as a month and a year tag (I recommend this third option).
    • You can filter for more than 2 tags at a time. 

The advantage of using tags is that you can:

  • Save yourself notebooks (you have a limit of 250)
    • 10 "year" tags, 12 "month" tags and a "his" and "hers" tag (24 tags) will replace 120 months' worth of notebooks over a 10-year period (240 notebooks between you and your wife in total), since you're recycling tags (combinations)
    • Shorter list of tags than notebooks (in this use case)
  • Filter for all receipts for December across multiple years
  • It is the only scenario under which you can achieve your requirements in Evernote currently
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We don't have sub-notebooks, but you can organize tags into a hierarchy. This may allow you to set up the organizational scheme you're looking for.

 

New to Evernote, this is a surprise and disappointment. Virtually every program I use has nested folders to one degree or another. Why would Evernote not have the same in the form of nested notebooks? I'd love to move all of my stuff into Evernote and use Evernote as the primary organizer for our two-location business. This would be a simple matter if we could create sub notebooks at multiple levels. Yes, I read here that tags can provide a workaround of sorts but why should a workaround be necessary?

 

I've never been one to use tags. A well-defined filing system and the search functions various programs provide have always met my needs. Why should I be forced to use tags when sub-folders will do? Why should I be forced to learn and add a tag scheme to a filing system that has served me well forever without tags? Originally excited about the possibilities Evernote creates for me and my business, the inability to easily create sub notebooks at multiple levels throws cold water on the whole idea.

 

Would it be difficult for Evernote to add hierarchical notebooks as a feature? What keeps Evernote from doing this?

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Yes, yes, I cry out for nested notebooks/notestacks, just like nested file folders in any OS. For a simple reason--it's just so intuitive, logical, and natural way to org the files/notes.

Nested notebooks/folders are anything but intuitive or logical, for the reasons Gaz mentioned above. Jefito's classic example is if I have a red, round, rubber ball, do I file it under things that are red? Things that are round? Things that are rubber? Things that are toys? This becomes more complex the more notes you have. If you have only a few hundred notes, then it may be pretty easy to retrieve them by digging around in nested notebooks/folders. But if you have tens of thousands of notes, it becomes a nightmare. If we came out of the womb knowing to use nested notebooks/folders, then it would seem applications like Mac's Finder or Windows Locate32 or Everything would be useless.

 

 

Some of us (a good portion, perhaps) do not have tens of thousands of notes but even if I did, a hierarchical notebook system would be helpful. I don't live life generating and collecting notes at random. Whether something is filed under the category red, round or rubber ball depends on more than the item's characteristics alone. In our business, it depends on it's purpose and our purpose in creating the note.

 

We happen to have red, round rubber balls in our facilities. When I am walking about and happen to look at them, I might notice they are dirty and need cleaning. That is a maintenance task. The logical next action is to add that task to the maintenance list (note) and store it here: Maintenance|Weekly. Then, when I next meet with our maintenance staff, or conduct a maintenance inspection, the ball issue is addressed when the checklist is referenced. Notice how this has nothing to do with the characteristics of the ball itself. It has everything to do with supervising staff and keeping our facility clean and well maintained.

 

Notice also how things change. A ball that is multi-tagged when brought new into the facility would be red, round and rubber. Later it became dirty. Do you then create a tag "dirty" for that? Do you create a "needs cleaning" tag for the ball and other items that are found dirty? If the cleaning task is assigned to Joe, do you create a Joe tag? And if you do, what do you do if Joe leaves and Jane takes his place? Relying on tags alone is an invitation for chaos in a dynamic enterprise. You could end up creating and recreating tags for the purpose of creating and recreating tags, and in that kind of unfocused thinking, you may easily miss essential tasks. We're not in business to do that. We're in business to get things done.

 

Back to the ball, the same red, round, rubber ball gets replaced every so often with a new one. We purchase new equipment twice a year. If Evernote had hierarchical notebooks, the note "replace ball" would be filed with other such notes in one of two folders: Purchasing|Later or Purchasing|Upcoming Round. The choice is determined by the condition of the ball that is observed when the list of items in the Purchasing|Later folder is reviewed.

 

Notice the difference. You are talking about nouns (ball) and ajectives (red, round, rubber). I am talking about verbs; specific action items that staff or I take regarding the ball. Tagging items by their characteristics is meaningless to us. If I tagged everything in our business by each thing's characteristics, it would be (1) a waste of time and (2) counterproductive. It would be a waste of time because the tags "red, round or rubber" have no meaning whatsoever given the ball's role in our business. It would be counterproductive because pulling up everything that had a tag "rubber" on it would force us to go through a list of search results (matt, handle, bumper, guard, plate, mallet, check, etc.) to get to the item we realy want (ball). And even then, that search-result list tells us nothing about what to do next. Unless you create a class of action tags, there is nothing about a ball's characteristics that tell us what to do next with it. But if you try to create a class of action tags, how exactly would each tag apply to each person and thing in our business?

 

If you are a librarian or warehouse manager organizing a static collection of stuff for the purpose of quickly retreiving something later, or at random if it happens to come to mind; or if you are a free spirit engaged in a creative thinking exercise, tags are probably a godsend. If you are a business person organizing the SPECIFIC NEXT ACTIONS you and your staff will take in our respective daily walks, a hirerachical notebook system would greatly increase Evernote's usefulness and efficiency.

 

The ball does not determine where, how and when to categorize it, I do. In that ongoing activity, a hierarchical folder (notebook) system is not only desirable, it is essential.

 

That is not to say that tags do not have their wonderful uses. They certainly do in many applications. But a hierarchical notebook system has its wonderful uses too. One does not replace the other. Together, the two make each other more powerful. 

 

It would mean a great deal to me and my business if hierarchical notebooks were added to Evernote.

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Hi. 

 

Since the first item you quote by Engberg was dated 2008,  it appears that Evernote is in no hurry to adopt a hierarchical structure.  There has been a lot of discussion about this in the past,  but the situation boils down to:  Evernote get to choose what they do.  They have chosen (so far) not to do this.  Whether that's for practical,  technical or idealogical reasons,  no-one knows.  Unless they already have been working on a change though,  even if they decide to embrace this new philosophy,  it won't happen soon.

 

In the meantime,  it is perfectly feasible to run a large note system without either notebooks or (many) tags.  If that doesn't suit your use case,  there are other note-taking apps out there that may do better.

 

For some purposes I agree a folder structure is a good way to filter information.  For others I prefer outlines or mindmaps.  Alongside Evernote,  which is still my main information store,  I use Treepad for folders,  Workflowy for outlines and MIndjet / Freeplane for mindmaps. 

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So:  I have a scanned receipt for my car insurance.  Do I file it under Personal > Car > Insurance?  Or under Insurance > Car > Personal?  Or Expenses > Car? 

 

Or should I just file the thing and add Personal / Car / Insurance / Expenses as tags and find it any way I search?

 

The answer depends on why you are scanning the receipt in the first place. In my case, it is to create an easily retrievable copy of that receipt if I had to prove payment was made. The expenditure itself is already recorded in my bookkeeping system. Tagging it three times is one approach. Mine would be to file it under Vendors|(Insurance Company Name). In this hypothetical scenario, I'd  name the file: 2015-06-19 Car Insurance Receipt. Every other document relating to that vendor is similarly named and filed. That gives me the ability to instantly review, in date order, everything that has ever happened in my relationship with this vendor. The file name is the tag. It can be found by using Evernote search without having to create tags too. You have to name the file something, name it in way that eliminates the need to tag.

 

The real scenario is to scan and attach the receipt to the listed item in the bookkeeping system, but that requires people to have such a bookkeeping system up and running.

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How do you deal with the access to the asset if you change providers?

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Some people continually repeat that "Nested notebooks/folders are anything but intuitive or logical".

Perhaps what the author means is that they are not intuitive or logical to the speaker/author making the statement.

 

Clearly, hierarchical organizational methods are very intuitive/logical to many of us, but apparently not to all.

We have been using hierarchical organization methods far, far, longer than we've been using this new invention called "tags".  Both methods are useful, and I see no need to put down one or the other.

 

I could definitely put sub-notebooks to good use in Evernote.  But, since it appears that Evernote is not likely to provide this feature any time soon, if ever, I have made good use of Evernote without them, using a limited number of stacks/notebooks with plenty of tags, and good, consistent Note Title naming convention.

 

BTW, since we now have had Note Links for several years, the answer to the oft asked question of where to store a Note that could/does have multiple parent Notebooks (the old car insurance question), is to put the actual, master note wherever is most, natural, logical to you, and then create another note in the other "parent" notebook, with a link back to the master Note.

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Don't exactly know what triggered the resurrection of the hierarchical organizational debate, I was just wondering how the OP would handle changing insurance companies for an asset. 

 

People do things in different ways that feel comfortable to them, just trying to understand the OPs way.  Been around the block long enough to know there is no ONE way.

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My post had nothing to do with you or your post, Cal.

 

Simply making the point that both hierarchical structures (sub-notebooks) and tags are useful.

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Still new to Evernote and liking much about the product, I am struggling to use Evernote without unlimited notebooks and sub-notebooks. Obviously, tags and nested tags make sense to the Evernote developers and many fans but they do not yet make sense to me.

 

(1) Where can I go to read the rationale behind tags and the anti-hierarchy stance Evernote seems to take? Perhaps if I understood more about that, Evernote would come more easily to me.

 

(2) When you come from a lifetime of using physical file drawers and the Windows folders and files scheme, and from a lifetime of categorizing and organizing everything by major topics and sub topics, what mental shift is needed to make Evernote tags work?

 

As I learn Evernote, certain tag shortcomings are becoming evident. How can these be addressed? Examples:

 

(A.) Say I created a project (major topic) and a dozen notes related to it (sub-topics) and say the project is completed and archived, perhaps never to be referenced again. Also say I tucked that project and all its notes away in an archive notebook because I want everything always in Evernote. To keep meaningless notes from the past from showing up on the list when I click a common-sense tag that was used in the past and is also used in present projects (Contractor Mike, City Permit, Pending Delivery, etc.), must I delete all such tags from all notes of the  completed project before archiving it? If so, you can see where it gets frustrating to operate without a notebook/sub-notebook system. With that system, All I would have to do is move the entire project and all untagged notes into an archive notebook and be done with it.

 

(B.) Today, a new project came to mind; master Evernote (master is a verb in this case). Using my tratitional system, my natural instinct leads me to go to my projects folder and create a sub-folder named "Master Evernote." In my daily walk, as resources become known and thoughts come to mind that relate to this project, each item (note, photo, link, book reference, idea, etc.) would be added to the Master Evernote folder. If appropriate, sub-folders may be created within the Master Evernote folder to better organize various items. When I made time or found time to work on this project, I'd simply go to the project folder and sub-folders and begin work. As the project evolves, and if it makes sense to rename a sub-folder or recategorize a group of items within the project, that can be instantly done in one step by renaming or moving the subfolder. So to with an individual item, simply move or rename the item. But if tags are used, it seems there is a major shortcoming in that to recategorize a collection of notes, you have to change the tags on every note. How is that inefficiency avoided or overcome?

 

I am still learning so the following criticism of tags may be off base, but at present it seems to me that tags present a major problem on the back end. Tags useful at first become litter and clutter later that must be cleaned up when the tagged items are recategorized or become no longer relevant. Globally deleting or renaming a tag is not a solution because that same tag may be used elsewhere in Evernote in a way that serves a good purpose. You could work around that, I suppose, by developing a more complex tag naming structure but why should we have to work around anything? Why can't Evernote simply allow us to use nested notebooks in a multi-level hierarchy?

 

At the heart of all of this is my sense of where things are. With folders and sub-folders, that comes easily to me. Using nested tags alone, it is a mental struggle to know where to go to find something, and where to go to file something new. Yes, a note can be tagged for easy reference later, but where does the note itself reside?

 

I suppose you can keep things "simple" by dumping everything into a single notebook, tagging everything as appropriate and letting the nested tag screen tell you where things "are." That seems risky because if you accidently globally lose or delete a tag, like might happen when sitting in front of your screen when tired, the only way to bring that back is to recover your backup file (assuming you made one recently) or go manually through every note you have to re-tag as appropriate. In a business setting this risk is huge because notebooks are shared and there is no telling what a well-intentioned or errant staff member may do with tags, even if one is told what to do and not do. Yes, the same risk exists with folders and sub-folders but those are not global like tags are.

 

Comments of all kinds will be appreciated. As stated above, I like Evernote and really want to make it work.

 

I once saw a T-shirt that said, "Everything I have ever let go of has claw marks all over it." Perhaps with that trait activated, let me close by asking, what is so terrible about the folder/sub-folder scheme that Evernot cannot add it as a feature? It seems to be a popular and ongoing request. Why has it not been added?  What policy, obstacle or idea keeps Evernote from allowing unlimited notebooks and notebooks that can hold sub-notebooks at multiple levels?

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Hi - Evernote haven't (AFAIK) published anything in detail on how or why they chose stacks,  notebooks,  titles and tags over a hierarchical system.  They chose the current setup,  and show no great inclination to change,  so the choices are: work within the limits of what we have,  or use a different package.  Google searches will get you lots of information,  both inside and outside the forums,  on how to use the features you have.

 

Random comments now on your various other points...

 

There isn't an 'anti-hierarchy' stance at Evernote, they just appear not to wish to change something which seems to work for most folks.  They're a business after all - why undertake a potentially expensive re-tooling exercise if you don't have to?

 

Archived items (if you want to keep a record but don't want search confusion) can be exported to files or additional free accounts.

 

New projects may require their own notebook for a while,  as new notes are added.  As the project develops those notes may be tagged "marketing" or "technical" or some such.  To recategorise a group of notes in that notebook,  just select the notes and add to or change the tagging.  No deletion required.

 

In my account with nearly 20,000 notes,  most of them are in one notebook and many are untagged,  because I can find them with a search.  I'd suggest you try Evernote for a while,  to get used to the practicalities of working in this way.  To add new material,  just clip.  To categorise,  add titles and tags.  If you really have to (new projects / shared notes / Local Notebooks),  add a new notebook..

 

And on your last point,  see above - Evernote 'could' do lots of things to make their product more attractive.  But how much would it cost,  how many extra paying users might that generate,  and over what sort of period might they expect payback and profit?

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I don't know why EN has opted not to extend the notebook hierarchy beyond the stack concept.  Since this is page 38 of this thread there has been a lot of discussion re this concept in general.  If it is really important to you to have a deeper folder hierarchy, EN might not be the tool that you want to use.  However, I think you can still accomplish your goals, though in a slightly different way (read claw marks).  Your call in the end obviously.

 

To be clear I am a proponent of minimalist notebooks, using tags I can mostly remember (which means not too granular), and the power of the search engine.  I think too many notebooks constrict searching, for my use case anyway.  To your specific concerns.

 

(1) Search the forum for various posts on notebooks vs tags, how to use tags, using keywords, etc.  Many different methods embedded in those posts.

 

(2) To discuss how to view tags I think I need to mention notebooks first.  I view notebooks as containers for a large grouping of notes.  I have six notebooks, 2 synched and 4 local (excluding INBOX and Scans which tend to be empty).  Most of my synched notes are in one notebook the other is for receipts.  This makes it easier to limit the search, but frankly most of my searches are at the All Notes level.  I view the tags in EN as a grouping mechanism.  Sometimes they can form a hierarchy.  For example Accounts - Bank - Wells.Fargo is a three level tag hierarchy which includes Credit, Insurance and the like at the second level and all of the third level are actual companies.  I use the same tag hierarchy concept for projects.  End of the day though, it is the bottom level tag that makes a difference in searches.  The rest is just for left panel display.  Don't know if this is clear or answers your question, but I guess you could say I use tags in flat and hierarchical methods.

 

A - For this I would create a stack containing all of your active notebooks and perform your searches with that as the context.  Should you ever want to see all notes with the tag you can use All Notes as the context.  No need to delete or rename any tags.

 

B - When I start a new project I create a tag and add that tag to the shortcuts bar for quick access to work the project.  I put the tag in my tag project hierarchy.  I don't really move anything after that, I may add other tags to some of the notes, but often don't.  No real need for any global re-categorization, the initial tag sets it up.

 

Tags can definitely become clutter when they are too discrete, as can notebooks in my view.  The last thing you want is a complex tag structure or a tag for every little thing.  Easy to remember, oft used tags are the way to go.  A tag should only have one meaning across all your data.  For me notebooks and tags should enable a search which gets me to 25 or so notes (1 of which being the one I want) out of the largest possible context that I can then word search or scan if I like.  I have 30k notes now.

 

For me the note resides in EN in one of 6 notebooks which comprise two stacks.  Tags and word searches are how I find the note.  Oftentimes I work in EN without the left panel even showing (using the F10 option).  So I guess I'm not as concerned where the note is as how do I find it.  I may be taking the risk that you mention of being able to accidentally delete a tag and suffering the consequences.  Safe so far.  Same risk with notebooks as you state, difference being the notes are gone if you delete a notebook.  Not a point I would make a decision on though.

 

I will stress my methods are not for everyone.  I'm okay conceptually using tags in a flat and hierarchical fashion, once I got my head wrapped around it.  Works for me and my use case and that's about it.   :)  

 

 If any thing I would go for a Boolean search capability before more deeply nested notebooks.  Workarounds for that are more painful.

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This approach would work for me if I were to start collecting notes now and expected to have just few dozens of notes at the most. But I've been collecting nested personal and business notes since Palm invented the first PDA. Since then I've migrated through four different platforms and apps combination. I hope to leave my family-notes as a legacy. For that purpose, a nested note system makes it easier and more intuitive to browse the notes without any preconception of a tag configuration.

I currently use CarbonFin that works pretty well. Although it contains thousands of sub notes, it's not intimidating at all: the home screen only has 11 notes. However it does not allow graphics nor embedded links. My main concern though is that CarbonFin does not seem to have a monetized business plan: they do not charge for app updates (Mobile of Web), and they do not sell ads either. I feel like it's a matter of time before they lose interest in maintaining the system (unless of course EverNote acquires them).

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This approach would work for me if I were to start collecting notes now and expected to have just few dozens of notes at the most. But I've been collecting nested personal and business notes since Palm invented the first PDA. Since then I've migrated through four different platforms and apps combination. I hope to leave my family-notes as a legacy. For that purpose, a nested note system makes it easier and more intuitive to browse the notes without any preconception of a tag configuration.

Yes is true... maybe.

I mean, whenever I've had to look into someone else storage to find something I always felt lost, more or less. The fact is what seem us intuitive and logical is often a cognitive bias.

So, I think the key, whatever the system you use, is to document your filling system. It is particulary true when you have to collab, share or transmit your infos, but even for a personnal use (do what I say, not what I do :unsure: ). Maybe, however, this need is more important with tagging system (I feel so in any case).

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Maybe an app developer is reading our conversation, and is planning to offer a combination of CarbonFin and EverNote in one new app.

The outline approach might be a cognitive bias to those who work with tags daily, but outline is what has been used in table-of-contents for millennia. It's worth a chance as an opinion for the development of hierarchical order. A new productivity app is badly needed in data organization. C'mon Google are you listening?

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Maybe an app developer is reading our conversation, and is planning to offer a combination of CarbonFin and EverNote in one new app.

The outline approach might be a cognitive bias to those who work with tags daily, but outline is what has been used in table-of-contents for millennia. It's worth a chance as an opinion for the development of hierarchical order. A new productivity app is badly needed in data organization. C'mon Google are you listening?

 

Hmmn.  Have you used Gmail recently?

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I haven't been here that much in a few weeks, and am really not up to backtracking through this thread, so please forgive me if I'm stating an obvious point...

@Workingman and @Christozoid, I used to handle a massive paper filing system as part of my job, so I do understand where you're coming from with regards to a hierarchical system of folders and sub-folders. Not using them when I first started with EN was a huge adjustment for me, but I now, by far, prefer the Tag system.

Granted, I'm not using EN in a business setting as I once did with the paper filing system, but I do recall one aspect of the the folder system that used to drive me nuts...and was equally applicable to the thousands of electronic files I processed and tracked each day.

That is that even with set perameters in place for everyone who has access to the files, people will always think just enough differently from everyone one else. What makes sense to as the appropriate destination for a document, even with clearly defined guides and "rules" set out for reference. In my experience, that inevitably led to problems with some files being located in hard to find locations.

The solution was to make copies of certain files - meaning those that could be applicable to more than one topic (or project) in the minds of someone accessing them, and put copies into every folder where they might look - and have a fairly elaborate cross-referencing system in place that I, as the filing gate keeper, had to set up and enforce.

Hope this is making sense...

With electronic files, the obvious problem with files that were worked on by more than one person, is how easily the current version can get lost or overwritten. This is where I find using the Tag system, along with a limited heirarchy of Notebook structure, Note Links (including creating a Table of Contents with clickable note links), and the use of EN's Search function, to be most effective. It allows me to cross-reference everything, track various projects and quickly drill down to find whatever I need.

In my case, and unlike some of the power users, such as Gazumped, I don't find it beneficial to completely do away with a hierarchical system of Notebooks and Stacks, i.e. folders and sub-folders. But I've managed over the past couple years, with some experimenting that led to reorganizing my EN database a few times, how to reduce and limit the number of Notebooks I actually need. That includes deleting or renaming several Tags a few times.

Tags can be safely deleted with having to worry about accidently losing individual Notes or entire Notebooks. (Though the latter two can be retrieved from your Trash Notebook, assuming you haven't deleted them from there too.) Tags, for me, serve the same function as making copies of my Notes (files) to put in every possibly applicable Notebook (folder). As others have pointed out, you don't want to get too carried away with Tags and end up with a ton that fast end up redundant and overwhelming.

Another handy thing about them, is the ability of the desktop EN apps to apply a particular Tag to multiple Notes at the same time select by first selecting them, then adding the Tag. Tags are also a great way to identify and grab all the notes belonging to a specific project that you want to archive out of your EN database.

Okay, I could keep going on about the pros of tagging for far too long, so I'll wrap it up now.

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As a person who has deep-seated pigeon-hole tendencies myself, it's been a difficult retraining.  But speaking up for tags (and I have 5400+ notes right now), their greatest value is one note appearing in many places based on tags.  It is seldom a note has utility in just a single domain, even if it's not immediately apparent when you gather it.  

I'll search all my notes several times using different parameters as needed for a project, give them a common tag for that project, and then using that tag gather all those into a special folder for that project.  When I'm finished, I'll create a TOC note as a reminder, and them dump the notes all back into the shared folder with that project tag still attached.   Some of my notes have a dozen tags from being associated with many writing projects.  

Think of it as 'catch, tag and release' for ideas.  

Maybe the preference for tags or subfolders really has something to do with innate cognitive differences and personality types/learning styles.   That would be an interesting psych study.  

 

As an old, old SQL dB development hand, I've watched the machine side go from deep nesting to flatter, fuzzy logic, NO SQL-style of Big Data/HADOOP manipulation.  It's been a jaw-dropping transformation in the data world, which makes me think EN is on the right side of dB history in the tags vs ratholes debate.  

 

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I must agree with those who find tags less than intuitive and that being able to have multiple levels of notebook nesting easier to use.  The concept of multiple levels fits nicely with wide spread outline experience in which topics can be nested to multiple levels.  I have also found the search function on everynote to be less than optimal.  It brings up many items that are not at all relevant and frankly at times I can't understand why a particular note was "hit"

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I must agree with those who find tags less than intuitive and that being able to have multiple levels of notebook nesting easier to use.  The concept of multiple levels fits nicely with wide spread outline experience in which topics can be nested to multiple levels.  I have also found the search function on everynote to be less than optimal.  It brings up many items that are not at all relevant and frankly at times I can't understand why a particular note was "hit"

 

I also agree that tags are initially less intuitive,  and that there is a 'brain training' period of months during which tags can be downright infuriating.  But once you get used to the concept it's like riding the proverbial bike.  I don't think either method is better - but from all appearances Evernote has no plans to change from the present layout,  so it's get used to the practice,  or find different software. 

 

Getting false hits is par for the course with any large database.  It's inevitable that the more (and longer) documents you store,  the more likely any given series of words is to have matches.  The search syntax also takes a little getting used to,  but once you can use it effectively it is possible to find exactly the material you need within one or two operations.  You can then tag that material permanently or temporarily to make searches easier,  or save the successful search for further use.

 

There's lots of discussion and many suggestions for data organisation throughout the forums if you wish to delve further..  or if you have any specific questions please feel free to raise them.

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I have read a lot of post on why having subnotebooks have advantages and speed up the organization and recall of idea's.  So what is EN reason for not including this feature.  Would it slow people down? Are they trying to teach us a better way and we just can't grasp it? Is it to to much processing power? Bandwdth? What is the reason.   

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I have read a lot of post on why having subnotebooks have advantages and speed up the organization and recall of idea's.  So what is EN reason for not including this feature.  Would it slow people down? Are they trying to teach us a better way and we just can't grasp it? Is it to to much processing power? Bandwdth? What is the reason.   

 

There are innumerable posts in the forums covering both sides of the argument - for and against hierarchies.  Evernote don't generally seem to feel a need to justify their product design - the simple fact is that this has been the choice since it's inception,  and they've shown no inclination to change.  They may have given it some thought,  or they may simply have followed Google who use the same structure - and have even more accounts than Evernote. 

 

As a user,  either you learn to use it,  or you find a different product.  :( 

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Well, I've been waiting for years to see nested sub-notes in Evernote. I started using outliner apps since the era of the Palm smart phones, and I have accumulated legacy notes with as much as 5 layers of hierarcal sub-notes deep. As of now, I use CarbonFin for iOS and Windows. I believe that it is the last of multi platform outliner apps. I'd feel better if they would charge a fee for their services in order to stay in business, but they are not monetized by any means that I can see: not by ads, nor by subscription. Any one who knows of a similar outliner, please advise me.

As for Evernote, I believe they never envisioned the use of their app as an OUTLINER with ability of infinite collapse and expansion: which is no small fit of programming either. Furthermore the newcomers in information management perhaps never experienced the practical benefits of an outliner, so they are not compelling the app creators like EN to offer such depth in their apps. Let' hope that some new startups find it profitable to court the outliner users, and save this effective tool of information management.

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Any one who knows of a similar outliner, please advise me.

 

 

workflowy.com

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All good reasons for requesting sub stacks- basically Evernote thinks they know best and is not listening to their customer base. I don't want to open Evernote and see 100s of Notebooks or stacks- I want to control what I see.

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Many power-users (customers) on this forum have pointed out the effectiveness of minimizing the # of notebooks.

 

They control what they see with: 

1.) tags

2.) structured consistent titles

3.) YYMMDD title prefixes

4.) Evernote search grammar terms

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I understand that many would prefer a more hierarchical notebook structure.  It just seems EN is disinclined to implement such a thing.

 

IMHO, the more notes you have the more a pain search can become if you have a lot of notebooks/stacks.  Notebooks and stacks segregate your notes in searches so if you didn't put it where you thought you did you won't find it.  Then you end up doing an all notes search or something close.  Tags don't segregate your notes, but if you tag something wrong, same issue and solution. 

 

So for me, as few notebooks and tags as possible is the solution.  Currently I have 8 notebooks, 2 stacks, and 300 or so tags (named so I can remember them) with 30k notes.  Typically I will get a search result with less than 20 notes which makes it easy to find what I was seeking.  FWIW.

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IMHO, the more notes you have the more a pain search can become if you have a lot of notebooks/stacks.  Notebooks and stacks segregate your notes in searches so if you didn't put it where you thought you did you won't find it.  Then you end up doing an all notes search or something close.

 

Sorry Cal, I don't see how having more Notebooks causes you to "have the more a pain search".

If you have more than one Notebook, then you will need to search using "All Notes", which is very easy to do, if you want to search outside of the current selected Notebook.  So it is irrelevant whether you have two, twenty, or 200 Notebooks.

 

Using a Notebooks is just one more way to organize and find your Notes.  Mis-filing is always a concern, but that can happen just as easily with tags and keywords in Note Titles, as with Notebooks.

 

I have found Notebooks to be a very effective tool, especially with entities like projects.

I can first easily filter on Notebook (using the "Jump to Notebook" shortcut), and then, if needed, ADD tag filters using the "Jump to Tag" shortcut.

Also, showing Reminders (used to indicated key notes) AFTER a Notebook and/or tag filter is very powerful.

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I found a huge reason for more than one notebook when I started syncing some notebooks into Jorte Calendar.

Tested and put all my (over 15000) notes into the calendar crashed my phone, twice.

 

If you don't need for more than one notebook, don't have more...

I need more than one...

 

And I tag all notes .NB "notebooks name" so I easy can restore from ENEX (I export stacks)  if I need to. But I still use notebooks

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IMHO, the more notes you have the more a pain search can become if you have a lot of notebooks/stacks.  Notebooks and stacks segregate your notes in searches so if you didn't put it where you thought you did you won't find it.  Then you end up doing an all notes search or something close.

 

Sorry Cal, I don't see how having more Notebooks causes you to "have the more a pain search".

 

No need to be sorry, as always different strokes for different folks.  I simply view notebooks as the way to segregate notes for searches, not to fully organize the notes.  So fewer notebooks makes sense in my world (assuming one puts like notes in the same notebook).  And I would say the bulk of my searches are all notes, some are by stack, and rarely by notebook.  But it ain't for everyone.  :)

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In the beginning, I started off creating a lot of notebooks. Because the notebooks were specific for a topic, each notebook contained just a few notes. Using Evernote's search grammar and consistent title structures allowed me to find the information just as fast as if they were in just one notebook. In other words, the dozens of notebooks were not offering me any advantage. 

 

So I reached a compromise between 1 notebook and the 250 maximum.

 

After a few months, I consolidated the notebooks into broad categories (work, home, leisure, financial, and miscellaneous).  This has worked well for me over the past 7 years and 30,000+ notes.

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When I started working with Evernote I used it with an organization I was used to before. The concept of tags was new to me and it took some time to digest. But after some time I started to appreciate it. It actually allows you to organize the information in a similar way as your brain works. Your brain does not put information into a hierarchical tree-like structure (notebooks and sub-notebooks). It keeps it in context and creates relations between information in a very complex way. With tags you can do the same. You can link a note to different contexts using tags. Today I am using just two stacks, one for work related notes one for private and less than 10 notebooks per stack but about 200 tags. And actually I could live with one notebook only and exchange e.g. the stacks 'work' and 'private' by two additional tags.

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Please. Using Evernote makes me feel somewhat retarded everytime I can't stack items as they should

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18 minutes ago, Ãxel said:

Please. Using Evernote makes me feel somewhat retarded everytime I can't stack items as they should

I'm not sure Evernote can be blamed for your problems.

Why wouldn't you use tags for stacking items, for example: Insurance > House  or Insurance > Car

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Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks

My knowledge of how to use Tags continues to evolve.  This has been largely due to limitations Evernote has placed on Notebooks.

So, the question is:  How does one make the best use of the tool they have?

Notebooks (NB) are limited to 250.  Tags are virtually unlimited at 100,000.    Tags can have a hierarchical structure of Parent Tag / Child Tag, much like the folders that you see on your computer.
 
So, if we can model NBs as Tags, then we can effectively have unlimited NBs and sub-NBs.  One of the most appealing features of Notebooks (and folders) is how they visually appear.  But what if we can do the same visual layout with Tags?  Stay tuned to learn how.
 
I use tags in two fundamentally different ways:
  1. Pseudo Notebooks -- use in place of where you would normally use a notebook.  This includes sub-notebooks.
  2. Note Categorization -- traditional use of tags to categorize the entity, which can have multiple tags.  Can be used across Notebooks, or in this case, across pseudo NBs.
Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks
 
Tags can be organized in hierarchies (meaning Parent-Child relationship).  So we can achieve the appearance of Notebooks and sub-notebooks,
 
Without going into a lot of detail at this point, I have created a number of Tags which serve as pseudo Notebooks.   Note that all of the pseudo NBs, actually tags, all have a prefix of ".NB.", which makes it easy to identify which tags are pseudo NBs, and will cause them to appear at the top of the Tag list.
 
One great advantage of using tags as pseudo NBs, is that you can assign multiple pseudo NBs to the same Note.  Can't do that with actual NBs.  Each Note can belong to only one NB.  So this allows me, for example, to assign multiple pseudo NBs of .NB.IT, .NB.Business, and .NB.Personal to the same Note, which is the asset record for a new Mac, used in both business and personal activities.  Now when I search or filter on any of the 3 pseudo NBs it will find the asset record of my Mac.
 
I now have all of my pseudo NBs that appear at the top of my Tag list, and the pseudo NBs can, and do, have sub-pseudo NBs.  Here's an example:
 
EN-Mac-6.3-Pseudo-NBs.png.a04a1800aadfb467f67ab7f7c4956c19.png
 
As a result, I now have a need for ONLY 3 main Notebooks, plus any Notebooks needed for sharing or mobile offline use:
 
EN-Mac-6.3-NBs.png.f9de1465cff90a888dd0a2964742ca68.png
 
Please feel free to post any questions or comments.
 
EDIT:  Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 12:36:27 PM CST
For more discussion on pseudo notebooks, 
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the main reason i mainly stick to notebooks is because it requires slightly less effort than tagging. like when creating a new note on the desktop version, the notebook will automatically be selected but tagging involves 2 extra steps, clicking "add tag" or "f3", and then typing the name of the tag. when a tag is selected from the left menu and you make a new note, its created in the default notebook but the tag that was being viewed isn't added to the note. it's the same deal on android but slightly more awkward because of the screen size.

it sounds fairly insignificant but even though ive tried tags many times i still end up adding to notebooks because its just that bit quicker and easier. i think if the process of adding tags had a bit more polish i might be able to switch.

like having the tag list pop up on windows instead of having to type first would mean a tag could be using only a mouse. if 3 or so recent tags were listed it would make it quicker and maybe 3 suggestions/predictions, something similar to how the web clipper works. these would make it even easier on the mobile version of evernote.

also when typing tags it just uses a basic search instead of fuzzy. why hasn't that ever been updated? for example if you want to add the tag "SomeName" and can only remember part of the name and type "Name" it wont show up... you have to type "Some" from the very beginning or else it disappears from the list. 

there are plenty other little things about tag entry that could be improved that i wont get into but i think its all very strange when people say evernote is best suited to tag use instead of notebooks, yet evernote seems to be designed better to add things to notebooks. so something doesn't add up. even the new android widget lets you quickly add a note to a notebook, but not to a tag. 

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5 minutes ago, savagecabage said:

stick to notebooks is because it requires slightly less effort than tagging. like when creating a new note on the desktop version, the notebook will automatically be selected

That is true, there is no default tag - not sure I'd want it
I have a default notebook (@inbox) where everything goes until I process it.
On my mail-to-evernote process, I have the option of specifying notebooks or tags; I don't use it too much because I prefer the inbox process.

How do you handle the situation where a note belongs in more than one notebook?

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On 1/5/2016 at 1:20 PM, JMichaelTX said:

My knowledge of how to use Tags continues to evolve.  This has been largely due to limitations Evernote has placed on Notebooks.

So, the question is:  How does one make the best use of the tool they have?

Notebooks (NB) are limited to 250.  Tags are virtually unlimited at 100,000.    Tags can have a hierarchical structure of Parent Tag / Child Tag, much like the folders that you see on your computer.
 
So, if we can model NBs as Tags, then we can effectively have unlimited NBs and sub-NBs.  One of the most appealing features of Notebooks (and folders) is how they visually appear.  But what if we can do the same visual layout with Tags?  Stay tuned to learn how.
 
I use tags in two fundamentally different ways:
  1. Pseudo Notebooks -- use in place of where you would normally use a notebook.  This includes sub-notebooks.
  2. Note Categorization -- traditional use of tags to categorize the entity, which can have multiple tags.  Can be used across Notebooks, or in this case, across pseudo NBs.
Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks
 
Tags can be organized in hierarchies (meaning Parent-Child relationship).  So we can achieve the appearance of Notebooks and sub-notebooks,
 
Without going into a lot of detail at this point, I have created a number of Tags which serve as pseudo Notebooks.   Note that all of the pseudo NBs, actually tags, all have a prefix of ".NB.", which makes it easy to identify which tags are pseudo NBs, and will cause them to appear at the top of the Tag list.
 
One great advantage of using tags as pseudo NBs, is that you can assign multiple pseudo NBs to the same Note.  Can't do that with actual NBs.  Each Note can belong to only one NB.  So this allows me, for example, to assign multiple pseudo NBs of .NB.IT, .NB.Business, and .NB.Personal to the same Note, which is the asset record for a new Mac, used in both business and personal activities.  Now when I search or filter on any of the 3 pseudo NBs it will find the asset record of my Mac.
 
I now have all of my pseudo NBs that appear at the top of my Tag list, and the pseudo NBs can, and do, have sub-pseudo NBs.  Here's an example:
 
EN-Mac-6.3-Pseudo-NBs.png
 
As a result, I now have a need for ONLY 3 main Notebooks, plus any Notebooks needed for sharing or mobile offline use:
 
EN-Mac-6.3-NBs.png
 
Please feel free to post any questions or comments.

JMichaelTX

You have mentioned few times, that tags can be organized into hierarchical structure of Parent/Child tags. Is it really the case? If I have a parent TagAB and child tags TagA and TagB under the parent TagAB

TagAB

    TagA

    TagB

and create a note Note1 tagged with TagA only. Does it mean that by clicking on parent TagAB I will see Note1? It is not the case in my version of EN for Windows and EN on the Web. Or, maybe my understanding on Parent/Child (Folder/Subfolder) is not correct?

In your pseudo notebooks tags example above, if you click on .NB.Business do you see notes tagged with .NB.Clients only? From the number of notes belonging to your tags it doesn't look like this is the case. So hierarchical structure of tags applies to the display of tags only, not to the underlying notes.

Thanks 

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3 hours ago, AndreasM said:

create a note Note1 tagged with TagA only. Does it mean that by clicking on parent TagAB I will see Note1?

Sorry for the confusion.  Your understanding of tag hierarchies is correct.  If TagAB has NOT been assigned to Note1, then clicking on TagAB will NOT show Note1 in the filtered note list.

My point with pseudo NBs (tags) is that you can create a tag hierarchy in the way you would like to view your Notes.  But if you want any parent tag to include notes of its child tags, the parent tag most also be assigned to the same notes.  Think of the top-level pseudo NB like a book cover. When you open a book you don't see all of the pages.  You have to go to each chapter/page to see it.  The pseudo NB tag hierarchy lets you describe the chapters in the book in a visual way.

So, as I have said before, it is NOT a perfect system, but I believe it is the best we can do to simulate an unlimited number of notebooks and sub-notebooks.  If it is important to you for the parent pseudo NB to "contain" all of the notes of its child tags, then you will need to do a search like this:
any: tag:ChildA tag:ChildB tag:ChildC   etc

This will select all note with any of the child tags.  Then assign the parent tag to those notes.

This is less than ideal for sure, but it is workable.  If you need to do this a lot, then create a Saved Search.

My workflow goes something like this:

  1. All new notes go to ".INBOX" an actual notebook
  2. If tags were not assigned via web clipping (usually they are), then I usually assign two or more tags:
    1. A top-level pseudo NB, like ".NB.IT"
    2. A primary category tag, like "IT.SW" or "EN.Mac"
    3. Additional sub-category tags if I feel they are important, and likely to be used
  3. Move the Note to "Active", my primary actual notebook

Most of my new notes now come from web clippings.  I have to say that I am very impressed with the EN Web Clipper.  After having used it for a while, it accurately auto-selects the proper notebook and top-level pseudo NB (tag).

I hope this helps.  Please feel free to ask more questions and challenge my approach.  I expect to learn from this, and will adapt my approach over time as I learn more.

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JMichaelTX,

thank you for replying to my post. I think using any: tag:ChildA tag:ChildB tag:ChildC   etc. is the solution here. Likewise, most of my notes come from the Web, and I'm very happy with the EN Clipper in Chrome.

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@all discussing here about how to replace lack of Evernote's support through using tags: your effort and sharing is great for all. But @evernote don't forget that all those techniques are nothing but workarounds for an incredible dab design of the notebooks feature by thinking the can have only two levels.

"Tags" are TAGS, and "notebooks" are a synonym of what it's currently called directories in computing, applied to a system where items are called "notes".

Trying to use tags as directories is a pain in the ass:

  1. Because you know that you are using something the way it wasn't intended to be used, and you know that the efforts on the development team of the product won't match you current work style. Using a software the against its design sucks.
  2. Because you know that when this finally gets addressed you won't be able to replace tags with notebooks in the end. Using a software the against its design sucks, again.
  3. Because it clobbers your tag list with pseudo notebooks. Using a software the against its design sucks - surprise!
  4. Because managing groups of notes by its tag has some usability issues vs managing a ***** notebook. Using a software the against its design sucks and it's obvious.
  5. You can't share a tag because... it's not a notebook containing notes. And that's why using a software the against its design sucks.

That's only why I can achieve to imagine using only 5 minutes of my time and without joining the adventure of misusing tags.

I am very surprised about @evernote not addressing this when the software is so cool, stable and mature nowadays, but also very surprised about some people here blaming others about "this is not an evernote's problem, but a problem of you because you don't know how to use the software".

Greetings.

 

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53 minutes ago, Ãxel said:

Trying to use tags as directories is a pain in the ass:

Actually it is not.  Have you  tried it?

I get it that that is not your preferred solution, but to be practical it is highly unlikely that Evernote will change its basic notebook design.  Users have been complaining/requesting improved notebook features for many, many years now, and Evernote has made only one, small change in all that time:  Added "Stacks".

So, you have a choice:  Make the best of the tool you have, or change tools.

If you don't let the term "notebook" mislead you, or limit you, then almost all of the functionality you want from a notebook can be obtained using tags.

Let's take a very broad category of information that I will call "Personal".  If I create a bunch of notes that I want to be associated with "Personal" I can use either a notebook named "Personal", or a tag named "Personal"

There is no material difference between a notebook of "Personal" and a tag of "Personal" in how I reference those notes:

  • In the left Sidebar, I can click on the label for either to filter the notes
  • In the Search box, I can filter the list using qualifiers for either ("notebook:" vs "tag:")
  • In the Notebook filter (dropdown list at top of note list), I can select the "Personal" notebook, which is analogous to selecting the "Personal" tag in the Tag Filter.
  • For each note, I would need to choose either the "Personal" notebook, or the "Personal" tag

So, from an user's organization perspective, use of a notebook and tag are the same.

The difference comes in when the user wants to either:

  1. Have more than 250 broad categories (like Project 100 - Project 500)
  2. Use logical, hierarchical subdivisions of the category (often called "sub-notebooks")

So, notebooks do NOT offer any organization advantage over tags.
Whereas tags offer many organization advantages over notebooks

  1. Virtually unlimited number of tags
  2. Can have a many sub-tags (sub-categories) in the tag hierarchy as you like
  3. Can assign multiple tags to the same note
    (so, for example, a computer asset Note can be referenced by both "Business" and "Personal")

This is not just theory.  I have demonstrated the use of tags as pseudo Notebooks for several months now, and I can say it works extremely well.  I have NOT found any usage or organization issues.  I have NOT found any missing features using tags vs using notebooks.  In fact my experience has been extremely positive since using tags has eliminated a number of obstacles I had with notebooks.

There are definitely some use cases that require notebooks, like sharing and mobile off-line storage.  One of the many benefits of using pseudo Notebooks is that I can create an actual EN notebook for sharing that still has my pseudo Notebook tag.

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On 10/14/2015 at 3:43 AM, Stuhrer said:

When I started working with Evernote I used it with an organization I was used to before. The concept of tags was new to me and it took some time to digest. But after some time I started to appreciate it. It actually allows you to organize the information in a similar way as your brain works. Your brain does not put information into a hierarchical tree-like structure (notebooks and sub-notebooks). It keeps it in context and creates relations between information in a very complex way. With tags you can do the same. You can link a note to different contexts using tags. Today I am using just two stacks, one for work related notes one for private and less than 10 notebooks per stack but about 200 tags. And actually I could live with one notebook only and exchange e.g. the stacks 'work' and 'private' by two additional tags.

I'm trying to bend my mind around this Evernote concept of hierarchy by tag, in order to see if I can convert hundreds of CarbonFin outlines to Evernote. Maybe you can help me make the transition. I have created a drawing, representing the (Stack, Notebook, Tags) approach that you have suggested but this forum wouldn't allow me to upload it.

When browsing an outline system for notes about Car Loan for example, one would normally  start from a larger category like "Private" note, then drill down to “Car” subnote> “Loan” sub-subnote etc.

How then do you browse in Evernote?
In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

 

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5 hours ago, Christozoid said:

In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

For this purpose; a tag is just a tag, nothing else. There is no real hierarchy.
You can have a combination search   tag:Loan tag:Home  tag:Private .....
however there is no hierarchy *** This may have changed in the recent Windows beta

Regarding your chart.
Evernote does not allow duplicate tag names.
You can call your tags     Private-Car-Loan       Private-House-Loan
or use multiple tags         Private Car  Loan      Private  House  Loan

My preference is to use multiple tags

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18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

Actually it is not.  Have you  tried it?

I get it that that is not your preferred solution, but to be practical it is highly unlikely that Evernote will change its basic notebook design.  Users have been complaining/requesting improved notebook features for many, many years now, and Evernote has made only one, small change in all that time:  Added "Stacks".

@JMichaelTX I've seen this kind of scenario several times before (enterprise is sure that all complaining users are wrong and its implementatrion is best for the user, user tries it, user is happy) and in all cases I finally agreed with the enterprise, but this time seems impossible to me to agree:

Notebooks are useful for some things and tags are useful for others; trying to assume that notebooks are limited on its functionality because they are not stackable, and that you must stop using notebooks for its natural feature and use tags for two different features (tagging and stacking) trying to cover the usability lack of the notebooks is terrible and leads to error prone management. Software developers know the users are prone to committing errors and tools must help us avoid that.

Also, lack of ability to manage shared work when you stop using notebooks and begin using tags turns the software much less useful when you migrate from notebooks to tags.

18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

So, you have a choice:  Make the best of the tool you have, or change tools.

I know. I am just trying to make the user feedback on this post even more complete adding my humble opinion about that, gathering the users feedback with the best quality is valuable for the company.

I think with no doubt (I say this with all my respect) that not addressing this issue is a terrible decission from the EN team, but also know that even with this design issue, EN is still a better product than any on the competition and that is why happy-with-tags an unhappy-with-tags users are we all still using it.

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4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

I've seen this kind of scenario several times before (enterprise is sure that all complaining users are wrong and its implementatrion is best for the user, user tries it, user is happy) and in all cases I finally agreed with the enterprise, but this time seems impossible to me to agree:

I should clarify.  My preference would be for Evernote to support unlimited number of Notebooks and sub-Notebooks, just like folders on my Mac.
But they don't, and they do not show any interest in doing so, maybe never.
So, I'm using the tools provided to me, regardless of the original intent by the developers, to get the most out of Evernote that I can.

4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

Notebooks are useful for some things and tags are useful for others; trying to assume that notebooks are limited on its functionality because they are not stackable, and that you must stop using notebooks for its natural feature and use tags for two different features (tagging and stacking) trying to cover the usability lack of the notebooks is terrible and leads to error prone management.

I have no idea what you mean by "error prone management", but I have actually tried using Evernote with a lot of well organized Notebooks, and now with a lot of well organized Tags.  There is no "error".  The management of my notes, using tags, is working very well.
Perhaps you just don't understand it.  People often condemn or have bias against things they don't understand.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said "This is not just theory. I have demonstrated the use of tags as pseudo Notebooks for several months now, and I can say it works extremely well."

4 hours ago, Ãxel said:

Also, lack of ability to manage shared work when you stop using notebooks and begin using tags turns the software much less useful when you migrate from notebooks to tags

You must have missed this part of my previous post:

22 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

There are definitely some use cases that require notebooks, like sharing and mobile off-line storage.  One of the many benefits of using pseudo Notebooks is that I can create an actual EN notebook for sharing that still has my pseudo Notebook tag.

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6 hours ago, DTLow said:

In Evernote a tag is just a tag, nothing else. There is no real hierarchy.

There is a real hierarchy, it just does not have full inheritance on the notes that have been assigned the tag.

It is hierarchy of tags, but not of notes.  Hierarchy simple means the data has a parent-child relationship.  And that is true of Evernote tags.

So, it turns out that it is more of an organizational tools for tags than for notes, unless the user ensures that all of a tags parents are also assigned to the same note.

Having said all that, I still find using a tag hierarchy to be a useful tool to organize my notes.  
Yes, it would be better if tag hierarchy:

  1. Applied the parent-child relationship to the notes, so that if I only assign certain child tags to a note, then a search/filter using the Parent tag would include all notes that have its child tags
  2. I could use the same tag name in multiple tag hierarchies.

However, one of the big issues is that tag hierarchies are NOT supported on mobile devices.

EDIT:  2016-04-04  18:13 CT

I should add that real tag inheritance *could* be coming soon to EN Mac.  It is already in the New Evernote for Windows, v6.0 Beta 

57 minutes ago, csihilling said:

Tag inheritance is included in the new Windows beta.  So if you create a tag hierarchy with Animal as the parent and the rest as children, you would be able to do a tag:Animal search and get all the notes even without any of them being tagged with Animal. 

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On 4/4/2016 at 11:47 AM, Christozoid said:

When browsing an outline system for notes about Car Loan for example, one would normally  start from a larger category like "Private" note, then drill down to “Car” subnote> “Loan” sub-subnote etc.

How then do you browse in Evernote?
In Evernote, do you star by filtering the whole stack for the “Loan” tag, then test each “Loan” tag to see if they are related to the “Home” notebook, the Finance notebook, or the car notebook?

Because of the greater capability and flexibility of tags over notebooks, I would model your needs using tags, specifically Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks 

  • .NB.Private
    • .NB.Home
      • other sub-categories as you like
      • I have quite a few "Home." tags, probably more than most people
      • It is totally up to you how broad or detailed you get with sub-categories
      • Here's my list: (which will be more than most people want)
        EN-Mac-6.6-Tags-Home-List.png
    • .NB.Car
      • I have a similar sub-cat tag list for my cars (which I call "Auto")
    • .NB.Finance
      • Loan
    • .NB.Travel
    • etc

Just like you would always assign a Notebook to a Note, I would always assign at least one pseudo NB (those tags with a prefix of ".NB.") to a note.  So in your diagram, all "private" notes would have a tag of ".NB.Private".

For a note that is info about a loan, I would tag it like this:

  • .NB.Private
  • .NB.Finance
  • Loan
  • and then whichever other category applied, could be both:
    • .NB.Home
      OR
    • .NB.Car

Now when you search for, say car loans, it would be:
tag:.NB.Car tag:Loan

If you want to browse through your home stuff, then click on the .NB.Private tag to expand, and then expand the .NB.Home tag.  There you would see all of your "Home." tags, and click on whichever one you want to explore.

If you want to see cross-cutting tags like "Loan", click on ".NB.Home" to filter the list for that tag.
Then click on the Tags filter, and ADD "Loan".
Now you see a list of notes related to loans for your home.

I have one other tag hierarchy I call "MY STUFF".  I use these tags to clearly identify notes about stuff that is actually mine, vs about the same subject, but is just information.  For example, "MY.Books" are books that I actually own, whereas "Books" would include those as well as other books I may have some interest in, or that are reviews of, use as a reference, etc. 

You could use just one tag named "Mine", but I like having:

  • MY.Books
  • My.Doctor
  • MY.History
  • MY.House
  • etc

This has become a very long list, so it is probably better to to use one tag for "Mine" and then another tag that I already have, like "MED.Doctor" instead of also having "MY.Doctor", OR like "Mine" and "Books".
You decide which way you like best.

Please see my post on  Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks for more details and examples.

Well, I hope this gives you some ideas.  Please feel free to come back with questions.

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Ho-hum.  I have been an unenthusiastic user of Evernote for several years.  Its capabilities for me to put web clips, documents, emails, etc. into shared notebooks and enable offline notebooks makes it extremely useful for travel planning.  Unenthusiastic because it is so crippled by its cave-man folder structure.

I check these forums every 6 months to a year and it is always the same:  Never is there an announcement that the deficiency is being fixed.  Instead, there is always an Evernote zealot, having newly discovered the wheel, patiently explaining how tags can be used as a workaround for the lack of a folder hierarchy.  Workaround, children.  It's a workaround.  Workarounds are bad and they come to bad ends.

I do marvel though at the cave-man level of intelligence at Evernote that does not admit that this is a major design flaw.  I had many exposures to computer file systems before MS-DOS came along and I do not remember, even then, that any of them were as fundamentally crippled as Evernote is.  Maybe some were, in which case I will emit a sigh of gratitude that they have passed into the distant mists.

So I use Evernote as the limited, special-purpose tool that it is and I hope that, somehow, some way, the cave men will see the light.

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4 hours ago, Flier said:

Instead, there is always an Evernote zealot, having newly discovered the wheel, patiently explaining how tags can be used as a workaround for the lack of a folder hierarchy.  Workaround, children.  It's a workaround.  Workarounds are bad and they come to bad ends.

I'm not an " Evernote zealot", but I am a big user of Evernote and have learned how to take advantage of what it offers.  Are you just whining because you can't get what you want, or have you actually tried using tags?

Few things in life are perfect, and we most always have to adapt the tools available (or affordable) for our specific uses.  Workarounds are NOT necessarily bad.  Sometimes a "workaround" is just a clever way of using a product for other than its original intended use.  Ignore the tools offered by Evernote at your own peril loss (bad choice of a word).

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1 hour ago, Flier said:

So I use Evernote as the limited, special-purpose tool

Evernotes has notebooks/tags/searches as tools to fulfill user note collection requirements.
I'm not sure what your requirements are but if you identify them first; I'm sure you'll see that there are tools for them.
Its not a great process if you start your requirement definition by specifying a specific tool.

Examples of requirements:
- I need to identify all notes having xxxx in the text
- I need to identify all notes that I classed as xxxxx
- I need to share this collection of notes with other users
- I need to keep this collection of notes local and not sync/d to the cloud
 

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54 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

I'm not an " Evernote zealot", but I am a big user of Evernote and have learned how to take advantage of what it offers.  Are you just whining because you can't get what you want, or have you actually tried using tags?

Few things in life are perfect, and we most always have to adapt the tools available (or affordable) for our specific uses.  Workarounds are NOT necessarily bad.  Sometimes a "workaround" is just a clever way of using a product for other than its original intended use.  Ignore the tools offered by Evernote at your own peril.

I'm not going to get into an extended debate here but I will tell you what I have learned during a career in engineering and computing:  Bad tools are bad.  They are bad even if one can figure out how to use them via workarounds.  True craftsmen never use such tools willingly and, if they must use them in a limited way, they do not accept them as anything but an interim necessity while waiting for the better tool.  Poor craftsmen, OTOH, accept poor tools without even understanding what they are doing.

"Peril"  ??!! The zealots will attack?  I am terrified.

(I guess the attack has already started.) DTLow:  My requirement is for an information organizing tool whose basic approach, hierarchical folders, is consistent with every other computer file system in the known universe.  I do not need a car where the gas pedal must be pulled upwards to accelerate, despite the fact that such a car would meet the requirement of having an accelerator.

End of discussion from my end.  I'm gone again for another six months, at which time I'll be back to check on the cave men.

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10 hours ago, Flier said:

My requirement is for an information organizing tool whose basic approach, hierarchical folders, is consistent with every other computer file system in the known universe.

I think you're looking at the wrong software.  Evernote doesn't use a note folder methodology.

I'd describe it more as a note label methodology.
Its kind of the latest thing in organization.  Even computer file systems are starting to use it by adding file tags

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3 hours ago, Flier said:

"Peril"  ??!! The zealots will attack?  I am terrified.

Sorry, no attack intended.  I really meant "loss", as in your loss by not using the tools Evernote provides.

3 hours ago, Flier said:

I'm gone again for another six months, at which time I'll be back to check on the cave men.

Too bad.  Us cave men and women just unearthed a gold mine in the EN Win 6 Beta -- full tag inheritance.  Probably coming to a Mac near you soon.  But then you don't use tags . . .

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Hi there.  Amazing product you have.  Unless I'm missing something, I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For example:

Notebook Stack:
     To-Do
           Work
                 Job1234
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
                 Job4321
                       On-Site Notes
                       Off-Site Notes
                       Manufacturing
          Home
                 To-Buy
                       Shoprite
                       Costco
                       Lowes
                 To-Fix
                       Kitchen
                       Master Bedroom

 

Thanks so much.  I couldn't live without evernote.  I use it on my phone, ipad, laptop, desktop.  Truly a terrific product.

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8 hours ago, magkcbw said:

I would love to have the ability to nest multiple notebooks.  Like sub-notebooks

For notebooks, the best you can do is store a collection of notebooks in a stack.
Only one level of nesting.

Have you looked at tags; there's no limit to the nesting levels
People do use notebooks for organization, but notebooks have limitations. 
They are more suited for their special features with collections of notes such as Trash, Local, Offline, Shared

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Hi there, thank you for the reply and your workaround.  It's appreciated. I thought tags were just keywords to search by, but if you are saying no limit to nesting levels I must have not understood it properly.  I'll read up on it.

Just out of curiosity, why the restriction?  If evernote is about note taking and organization and all that, what is the purpose of locking it down with restrictions.  Since it wouldn't change the way people who use it as it is, it would only be an enhancement for organization freaks like me.  If it's just a matter of wording, make a sub-notebooks or some such. 

No restrictions my friend DTLow...where are we?  Communist China? ***** Germany?  Give me nesting or give me death!  

In all seriousness, I appreciate your help.  Thanks for your time.

 

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On May 14, 2016 at 9:24 AM, magkcbw said:

Just out of curiosity, why the restriction?  If evernote is about note taking and organization and all that, what is the purpose of locking it down with restrictions.  Since it wouldn't change the way people who use it as it is, it would only be an enhancement for organization freaks like me.  If it's just a matter of wording, make a sub-notebooks or some such. 

Maybe restrictions was the wrong word - how about limitations. I edited my post.

Notebooks and Tags are different tools.

If I want my notes to be  local/offline/syncd/sharedI use a Notebook

If I want to organize my notes with multi-levels, I use a Tag

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I need this functionality too it is severely crippling and illogical to use pseudo tagging. Here's 90% of my workflows:

  1. Gather data for things I research on the internet.
  2. Clip found data into evernote, thanks to webclipper it almost always picks the right notebook to clip into.
  3. Brainstorm/grade collected data later on, easy to do with almost folder like hierarchy.

But I've ran up a ton of note stacks. I need deeper nesting. 

So this is what my new workflow should be?

  1. Gather data on the internet.
  2. Clip it into evernote.
  3. Think about hierarchical tag structure for that note
  4. Implement tag structure to each clipped note manually
  5. Note down my tag structure in some graphical overview/make a picture
  6. Use the correct tag search to get all my tags for the "folder"
  7. Brainstorm/grade collected data later on

Seriously? That's extremely primitive. I'll jump ship towards another note taking tool as soon as I find one with pdf and ocr searching which is somewhat as advanced as Evernote. Does Evernote realize/care that it's ruining its industry leading product by simply not caring about a functionality that has been requested for 8 years and has been shoved aside without a single explanation why it will not be implemented?

Also please consider how annoying this would be on an android. I don't know about everyone else but my typing speed on a mobile is at least halfed compared to the desktop if not quartered. So am I really expected to type out PDFs.Biology.Cancer.Research.In-Vivo.Finished to find my pdf's? You know what would help a lot in this case? Folder-like tree navigation that you simply open up with a finger tap.

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On 6/3/2016 at 9:46 AM, vetmode said:

Clip found data into evernote, thanks to webclipper it almost always picks the right notebook to clip into.

I find the EN Clipper also almost always picks the right primary tag to use.

In my case, those are pseudo Notebook tags, which, for most purposes, work just like an actual Notebook.
Now that EN Win has tag inheritance (as an option), clicking on a top-level tag, shows all Notes that have it, or any of its child tags, as a tag.

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In my opinion, the difference between a folder structure and tag structure is the role of the order.
In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

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9 hours ago, Mata Hari said:

In my opinion, the difference between a folder structure and tag structure is the role of the order.
In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

Can you explain that further,
and how folders enter this discussion?  So far we have Stacks, Notebooks, and Tags

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I think the reference to folder is to make it clear that the notebook structure is analogous to the folders structure in Windows.

Tags is definitely the way to go. I ditched most of my notebooks and put everything in one notebook except for special notebooks which I have for shared or offline notes. The multiple tags means that you can tag with tags that are not in the same tree (it's not just the equivalence of AB and BA). So in the OPs original folder structure a note  could be tagged with "to buy" and "kitchen". There would also be no need for two notebooks (or tags) named "on-site notes". 

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7 hours ago, Mike P said:

I think the reference to folder is to make it clear that the notebook structure is analogous to the folders structure in Windows

So A and B are folders (like Windows filing)  compared to A and B tags in Evernote
and

>>@Mata Hari: In a folder structure AB is not the same as BA where is in a tag structure they are the same

Indicating using folders, you would have to copy the note to put it into both folders A and B

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To me the structure of EN built on Notes Notebooks Stacks is just a tree structure  with 3 levels (or 2 if you like to see the Notes as level 0) 
The theoretical basis is tree structure and there are many variations on that, the usual is folders and menus etc
In a tree structure, AB is not the same as BA (A and B are example of folder names)
But with MULTI TAGS you have no order. I can have tag T1 T2 or T2 T1 and it points to the same notes
Nesting tags is possible in EN to several levels.  But it is not a true tree structure.
If you search tag T2 it will return notes with that tag but not with T1. 
Therefore tags and folders are not the same thing.
I use both folder and tags to structuring. 

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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