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CreativeSoul

Feature Request: Notebooks within Notebooks

Idea

Dear Evernote Forum,

I am using Evernote since 2 years now and now I am feeling that I am missing a function within EN. Sometimes I want to write long texts within Evernote (like Texts for a Blog or even a book), but I want to chop up the scenes in to different notes. That results in a lot of notes which have to be organized within a notebook. Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.  Right now it is only possible to have a notebook with several folders. But the folders in the notebook themselves cannot have folders too.

 

What do you think about this request? Do you think that this feature would ease your work within EN? I already wrote to the support and they said that they marked my ticket as a feature request. They also recommended me to share my idea with you.

Best regards.

 

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2 hours ago, CreativeSoul said:

Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.  Right now it is only possible to have a notebook with several folders. But the folders in the notebook themselves cannot have folders too.

Its been discussed often in the forum.

An alternative is to use tags
You could even call your tags Folder-1 Folder-1.5 Folder-2 etc
The Mac platform allows for tags to be arranged in a limitless hierarchy,
for example      Folder-1
                              Folder-1.5
                                   Folder -1.5.1
                         Folder-2

Personally, I use tags for organization/classification;
I use notebooks for their special features like Local and Sharing.

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You can create a table of contents note with links to your notes in it.  A quick search found this help.

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On 4/16/2016 at 8:08 AM, CreativeSoul said:

Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.  Right now it is only possible to have a notebook with several folders. But the folders in the notebook themselves cannot have folders too.

What do you think about this request? Do you think that this feature would ease your work within EN?

This is one of the most frequently made requests, and has been for many years.  Yet Evernote has given no sign that they will even consider such a request.  For an example of these requests, see Nested notebook stacks? 

However, you can achieve most, if not all, of what you want to use Notebooks for, by using a system I call Pseudo Notebooks.  These are actually tags, but you can use them in every way like you would a real notebook1, PLUS you can have a virtually unlimited number, and have as many sub-[pseudo Notebooks] as you like.  See Using Tags as Pseudo Notebooks 

[1] The exception is that pseudo notebooks cannot be use for sharing or offline storage.

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Thank you all for your interesting and creative work-arounds. I think table of contents or the workaround with the tags are useful, but I don't know whether I could integrate them into my workflow in EN after 2 years. I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them). Anyways thanks again for your help, I hope that the EN-Team will think about this feature again! Does somebody know, why Evernote is not implementing this feature? 

On 16. April 2016 at 1:20 AM, JMichaelTX said:

This is one of the most frequently made requests, and has been for many years.  Yet Evernote has given no sign that they will even consider such a request.

 

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19 hours ago, CreativeSoul said:

I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them).

From its inception, surely tags have been regarded by most as being one of Evernote's most useful organisational features, one that takes it head and shoulders over nearly all the other note apps for ease of navigation.

Could you explain why they make you uncomfortable and why notebooks within notebooks would be more accessible than nested tags?

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On April 16, 2016 at 7:37 AM, DTLow said:

Therefore I would like to be able to have notebooks within notebooks. So generally I would like to be able to have a notebook with limitless folders.

 

On April 23, 2016 at 2:22 AM, CreativeSoul said:

I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them).

To all you notebook and folder people
I'm sorry to break this to you - for digital filing, there are no REAL notebooks or folders.
You can't have notebooks inside of notebooks

These are just labels assigned to a note.

These labels go by various names: Notebook, folder, tag, keyword etc.
But the truth is - they are just labels

It doesn't make much sense when people are specifying their preference for tag, notebook, folder without consideration of the features and limitations of each. Its just a name.

For example, this makes more sense:
I used a notebook instead of a tag for these notes so I could share them.

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.... or I used a notebook/stack to get one click context for searches

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On 4/23/2016 at 5:22 AM, CreativeSoul said:

Thank you all for your interesting and creative work-arounds. I think table of contents or the workaround with the tags are useful, but I don't know whether I could integrate them into my workflow in EN after 2 years. I barely use tags (i don't feel comfortable with them). Anyways thanks again for your help, I hope that the EN-Team will think about this feature again! Does somebody know, why Evernote is not implementing this feature? 

 

 

I can certainly understand a disdain for tags, I've seen Firefox destroyed because of tags and a misunderstanding on the part of Firefox developers that keywords were the same as tags. 

If I used tags almost all my notes would have useless tags.   I make sure that important words are in the Title or at least in the text.  I might also point out that in web pages if you have keywords (tags in Evernote context) that are not in the content the Google search extracts a penalty, so if you were to extend the same principle to Evernote -- it should be in the content and would be found anyway. I can't imagine it working faster if I used tags instead of actual words in content.

I also rearrange words in the title so most important word is first, so an alphabetical sort of titles works well when sorted as such.  Though I normally use the default -- updated in descending order.   A rule of thumb can be to take the original title, place the most important word first followed by remaining words,  comma, then the beginning words (the comma indicates a break in arrangement).  Anybody familiar with KWIC indexes would recognize the pattern.   Actually I see KWOC, which I never heard the term before is more what I am referring to.

I never heard of KWOC before but I guess it is closer to what I mean -- KWIC / KWAC / KWOC.    Also see Key Word in Context - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

With embedding folders within folders in Evernote there would be three problems.

1) You have a specification limit of 250 folders total.  When I discovered that and that I only had 100 more to go, I virtually stopped making new folders unless they were going to be public. 

2) You can only use a folder name once so you cannot use as a folder name within two stacks, nor would you be able to if you could within two different folders.

3) If you make a folder public you specify that folder name in the url, for instance http://www.evernote.com/pub/dmcritchie/foldername1   (l have no such folder)  But that means to me that it would be difficult to have a structure of folders within folders.

Of course Evernote uses the term notebook instead of folder.

Interesting point raised that folders may in fact be a tag in database. For a search of a folder you must place the folder at the beginning of the search and you can't for instance restrict to two or more folders, you have a choice search one folder or all folders.       

notebook:folder1  Evernote feature request

 

 

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11 minutes ago, dmcritchie said:

I make sure that important words are in the Title or at least in the text.

Do you have a master list of these keywords?  I like having the taglist to chose from.

>>I virtually stopped making new folders unless they were going to be public. 

That's my reason for using notebooks, to identify notes as syncd/local/offline/shared

It does bring up an interesting point.  Would a sub-notebook of a Local notebook also be expected to be Local?

 

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On 4/24/2016 at 9:07 AM, DTLow said:

To all you notebook and folder people
I'm sorry to break this to you - for digital filing, there are no REAL notebooks or folders.

I'm not sure why you continue to repeat something that is incorrect.

In the digital world of Evernote (and some other apps), "Notebooks" are real.  They are not labels, they are containers which contain zero or more Notes.

On 4/24/2016 at 9:07 AM, DTLow said:

These are just labels assigned to a note.

These labels go by various names: Notebook, folder, tag, keyword etc.
But the truth is - they are just labels

If there is anything that is not real in the Evernote digital world, it would be "labels".  Evernote does NOT any entity or property called "label".

So if you are trying to state the "truth", then you are far from it.

I have no idea what your point is, or why you keep slamming users who would like to have a more capable Notebook feature in Evernote, that behaves much like Mac/PC folders (which are also containers).  It seems very natural to me that at least some users would like the "folder" feature in Evernote  since from the invention of PCs and Macs, we have had folders (also called "directories" early on).

May I remind you of the title of this topic:  "Feature Request: Notebooks within Notebooks".

The operative words here are "feature request", so why not allow users to make a request without berating them?  

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:
2 hours ago, dmcritchie said:

I make sure that important words are in the Title or at least in the text.

Do you have a master list of these keywords?  I like having the taglist to chose from.

 

I said I avoid using tags.   If I did they would be like  "Firefox",  "Evernote", "Photography" so would be rather useless if everything would be mostly those.  I make sure important words are added to title or text if they are not there an don't rely on or use tags.

For the part you quoted here is an example Actual title of an article was
"Video Lessons: Build your Site with Joomla 3"  which I keep in my note with the link, but my title in Evernote becomes:
"
Joomla, Video Lessons: Build Site"    with the most important word first and remainder shortened to fit in Snippet view for list of articles because the title line does not wrap.   The text of note is  to the article and reads:

Video Lessons: Build your Site with Joomla 3
:: Check out the Brian Teeman's Joomla video course on How to Build a Site. After you watch this video course you'll be able to create a fully-functional Joomla 3 website.
https://www.siteground.com/tutorials/joomla-video/build-joomla3-site/

followed by the outline of the videos (had to use No Style in Firefox or a bookmarklet to be able to extract).

The only use of tags I used was to select articles for presentations  with structured tags like  en-pr-2014, en-pr-2015 (didn't get that far), en-pr-clip, en-pr-link    all could be found in search with  tag:en-pr-* (and they aren't within the articles)   There was a problem perhaps they did not work in web view at time -- they do work now, for sure.

You can get a list of the tags you use under  View > Tags View (toggle). 

 

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10 minutes ago, dmcritchie said:

I said I avoid using tags.   If I did they would be like  "Firefox",  "Evernote", "Photography" so would be rather useless if everything would be mostly those.  I make sure important words are added to title or text if they are not there an don't rely on or use tags.

ok, instead of master list of keywords, do you keep a master list of the important words  that you add to the title or text

I'd like to make sure that my use was consistent so that a a search would be accurate.

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On 4/16/2016 at 9:08 AM, CreativeSoul said:

Sometimes I want to write long texts within Evernote (like Texts for a Blog or even a book), but I want to chop up the scenes in to different notes.

You might consider creating an Outline ahead of time then using that outline for titles beginning with those indexes (03._a)   leave some space in between for insertions.   Just a thought, I'm not that organized.  Someone posted a nice article of what they did but I could not find it.  Most people I think just start writing in Word or similar by Chapters, at least the formatting will be consistent.

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18 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

I'm not sure why you continue to repeat something that is incorrect.

In the digital world of Evernote (and some other apps), "Notebooks" are real.  They are not labels, they are containers which contain zero or more Notes.

Wow, you actually believe notebooks are real containers, which contain notes.
Thats more of a logical view than reality.  Note data is contained in a database table(s).

I know that Evernote uses the notebook field to identify notes that are syncd/local/offline/shared.  
I know some people try to use notebooks for organization, but get frustrated by the lack of hierarchy

>>If there is anything that is not real in the Evernote digital world, it would be "labels".  Evernote does NOT any entity or property called "label".  So if you are trying to state the "truth", then you are far from it

I never said Evernote used the term  "labels"  The EN terms are Stacks, Notebooks and Tags

>>I have no idea what your point is, or why you keep slamming users who would like to have a more capable Notebook feature in Evernote, that behaves much like Mac/PC folders (which are also containers
>> May I remind you of the title of this topic:  "Feature Request: Notebooks within Notebooks".  The operative words here are "feature request", so why not allow users to make a request without berating them?  

It's not so much as "slamming" or "berating"  as trying to present an alternative solution for users frustrated by the lack of hierarchy with notebooks. Like you did with the Pseudo Notebooks   you posted above (possibly more diplomatic than my postings)

Yes, this is a request for notebook hierarchy, and there are others, but to date Evernote has not indicated any plans to implement a hierarchy.  
We can wait it out, but I think an alternate solution is more realistic.

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On 7/31/2016 at 0:23 AM, DTLow said:

Wow, you actually believe notebooks are real containers, which contain notes.
Thats more of a logical view than reality.  Note data is contained in a database table(s).

I thought since you claim  to be a software developer, you would understand that all software uses logic to emulate real world objects.  How the data is actually stored internally is an implementation detail.  The notion of a "container" comes from how the information is presented to the user in the UI.  The Evernote Notebook meets the usual definition of a software "container" because each Note belongs to, or is contained by, one and only one Notebook.

IAC, you are, again, incorrect, at least for Evernote Mac.  The note data is NOT stored/contained in a database.  It is stored in macOS folders and files.  The EN Mac SQLite database stores only the metadata for Notes, and other objects.

 

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On 2016-12-02 at 2:14 PM, JMichaelTX said:

IAC, you are, again, incorrect, at least for Evernote Mac.  The note data is NOT stored/contained in a database.  It is stored in macOS folders and files.  The EN Mac SQLite database stores only the metadata for Notes, and other objects.

Agreed, on a Mac
- the note content is stored in individual files; html, image, pdf ... A folder for each note
- the note metadata is stored in a database file ( LocalNoteStore.sqlite) ; title, notebook, tags ...
A note's notebook/tag info is stored in the database

>>The notion of a "container" comes from how the information is presented to the user in the UI.  The Evernote Notebook meets the usual definition of a software "container" because each Note belongs to, or is contained by, one and only one Notebook.

We've gone off topic, but I understand the perception of containers
- Even the perception of a stack of containers
- Its another thing with containers within containers; the analogy suffers
As I said, its more a logical view of the data than the actual data

>>all software uses logic to emulate real world objects.

My objective with Evernote is to stash my data and retrieve it when needed
I'm not into emulating real world objects; but tag/notebook works for me; some users prefer the term "folder" (a rose by any other name) Screen Shot 2016-12-04 at 8.31.09 AM.png 
Whatever the name, it's a column in the database

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I check back maybe every year of so to see if EN is headed toward nested folders, which is maybe the most ubiquitous idea in computing.  Sorry to say that I see here yet another thread where someone asks about this simple feature and gets pounded into the ground by EN zealots who believe that workaround=solution.  See you guys in another year or so.

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18 hours ago, Flier said:

another thread where someone asks about this simple feature and gets pounded into the ground by EN zealots who believe that workaround=solution

You're welcome to create a request for nested folders or add your vote to the the request for nested notebooks

However if you're going to post a comment and make claims like "most ubiquitous idea", don't be surprised if you get a discussion

 

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4 hours ago, DTLow said:

However if you're going to post a comment and make claims like "most ubiquitous idea", don't be supprized if you get a discussion

Actually @Flier said:

4 hours ago, Flier said:

nested folders, maybe the most ubiquitous idea in computing

Operative word being "maybe".

In the history of personal computers, directories and sub-directories were there virtually from the beginning, or at least as I best remember going back to the early 1980s.  I'm pretty sure the MS-DOS delivered by Microsoft to IBM included them.  IAC, I don't know of any computers in modern history that does not support them.

A mystery we may never solve is why Evernote chose not to support nested Notebooks, which are functionally much like folders/directories on computers.
Maybe when Evernote co-founder and former CEO Phil LIbin writes his memoirs. . . ?

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5 hours ago, JMichaelTX said:

In the history of personal computers, directories and sub-directories ...

And the discussion starts again

I have no objection to nested folders being ubiquous to computer organization.  It's true now, and true when Evernote started

From the very beginning Evernote has presented themselves as delivering an alternative organization method (Tags)

I understand completely that this alternative does not appeal to everyone and consequently, they don't use Evernote

 

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3 hours ago, DTLow said:

And the discussion starts again

LOL.  I think you prompted it with:

10 hours ago, DTLow said:

However if you're going to post a comment and make claims like "most ubiquitous idea", don't be supprized if you get a discussion

All I was trying to do was to show that he had made a reasonable statement.  But then, YMMV.

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I am against this feature. It would make the notebook structure just as messy as every folder structure I have ever come across. 

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On 3/11/2017 at 6:04 AM, Eduardo Estefano said:

I am against this feature. It would make the notebook structure just as messy as every folder structure I have ever come across. 

The folder structure used is entirely user-designed.

My folders are generally very logical and well-organized, thank you.  Folders are just another tool.  Any tool can be misused.

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On 2017-03-11 at 4:04 AM, Eduardo Estefano said:

I am against this feature

This is nothing wrong with user's posting a request; I see no harm with Evernote implementing Notebook hierarchy

>>.It would make the notebook structure just as messy as every folder structure I have ever come across

 I agree.  Notebook hierarchy is not a feature I'd use and I've posted many times on how tags are a superior form of organization

edited: Superior because of increased flexibility; it's hierarchical vs relational organization 
Notebooks provide a hiarchical organization - you can only assign one notebook to a note
Tags allow a relational organization - you can assign multiple tags to a note

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

I've posted many times on how tags are a superior form of organization

Tags are NOT inherently a better form of organization.  It depends greatly on the use case and user preference.

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Tags are great. But I personally need notebooks in order to share groups of notes.

Currently, the note sharing process is not so great. The note is only visible via workchat.

A combination of notebooks and tags for me at least eliminates the need for nested notebooks.

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On 2017-03-14 at 4:08 PM, Eduardo Estefano said:

Tags are great. But I personally need notebooks in order to share groups of notes.

Likewise, I use Notebooks for the purpose of Sharing, Local/Sync, Offline

I also have an Inbox Notebook; its a GTD thing

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:

 ... I've posted many times on how tags are a superior form of organization

Superior for what purpose?

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Flier said:

Yet again: Superior for what purpose?

Organization of notes for search/retrieval 

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Organization of all notes?  Everyone's notes?  The point is this:  You cannot possibly know all possible uses for Evernote, so you can't ever say logically that tags are superior to hierarchical folders without qualifying the statement to state the uses for which you consider tags to be superior.

You like tags. Fine.  You're a zealot for tags.  Fine.  But it is logically impossible for you to know that tags are superior in all possible uses.  Said another way, it is sloppy thinking.

What can be said is the capability of a union of truly hierarchical folders and the tag system provides a superset relative to the capability of the tag system alone.  Hence, it is likely that the  union will be superior to tags in at least some applications.

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On 2017-03-14 at 5:37 PM, Flier said:

You cannot possibly know all possible uses for Evernote, so you can't ever say logically that tags are superior to hierarchical folders without qualifying the statement to state the uses for which you consider tags to be superior.

I updated my post with: 
Superior because of increased flexibilityit's hierarchical vs relational organization 
Notebooks provide a hiarchical organization - you can only assign one notebook to a note
Tags allow a relational organization - you can assign multiple tags to a note

I choose to make use of the increased flexibility offered by Tags

I believe in knowing my tools and using the best method.  I'm a zealot for this.

>>What can be said is the capability of a union of truly hierarchical folders and the tag system provides a superset relative to the capability of the tag system alone

I see a problem with using two organizational systems at the same time.

Even if this request is implemented, I would not be using hierarchical folders/folders

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On 11.3.2017 at 1:04 PM, Eduardo Estefano said:

I am against this feature. It would make the notebook structure just as messy as every folder structure I have ever come across. 

What the heck? You don't have to use sub-notebooks if you don't want, people here are just too attached just because they get a batch saying "Guru".

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On 24.4.2016 at 4:07 PM, DTLow said:

You can't have notebooks inside of notebooks

God damnit, you do know that old school paper notebooks have flaws? We're in a digital age where we can have whatever functions we want, or do we still need to create notes on stones? That argument makes no sense and its persistent defense even less.

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