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Eric Flynn

Time to ditch Evernote in favour of Dropbox?

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Hey all,

 

recently Dropbox announced their new service that is still in beta and is being developed. Sites like The Verge and TechInsider posted some good overviews of what it does. But by checking out full dropbox paper review I noticed that Dropbox are getting onto Evernote's turf and might as well be dominating it very very soon. 

 

What do you think about it? Are you gonna switch? It's pretty power and all web based, so no clunky software needs to be downloaded. 

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Am I going to switch?

No, it's too soon for me to consider moving my data to the beta "Dropbox Paper".

If it is gaining users and develops a strong reputation, I might consider it in a couple years or so.

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Am I going to switch?

No, it's too soon for me to consider moving my data to the beta "Dropbox Paper".

If it is gaining users and develops a strong reputation, I might consider it in a couple years or so.

 

Makes sense. I guess I am just one of those who likes to jump to the newly released services and products to test them. So far though, Paper was great. Although I admit that Evernote is a long way ahead.

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I can see some users going for it - the real-time editing and direct calendar links look pretty good.  Of course if I were a company like Evernote,  with an existing product and a market position to protect,  I might have held back some juicy features so that if a competitor launches something better than my recent products,  I already have a 'plan B' ready to launch so I can leave the competitors eating my dust.  (No inside knowledge here,  I'm just sneaky and devious by nature.)  I signed up for the waiting list anyway.  I like new toys too...

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I'm pretty much already making the switch. Evernote needs to wake up and realize internet services are everything, nowadays. Why download? It's like this scene in Silicon Valley where this one developer mocks Richard's project because they had to download some software to fully test it. What are we, in 1999? All of Evernote's features should work on the Web. I like Dropbox Paper because it works really well, it's on the web and it's not clunky and doesn't feel slow like Evernote Web does. Also, folders and sub-folders are very important for me and Evernote Web lacks when it comes to fully taking advantage of Evernote Web.

Okay, now, it's time to be real and honest. Evernote is way more advanced and further ahead than Dropbox Paper is, of course. That's why Paper's in Beta. I can't say I don't rely on Evernote's Web Clipper and tagging system, but I don't doubt that once Dropbox Paper gets out of this beta stage, it'll be far better than Evernote in some aspects. I don't think it'll be better in all aspects, because Paper isn't trying to compete with Evernote, I think it's trying to compete with things like Google Keep and writing platforms for collaboration.

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Yup.  A year ago I gave paper a try.  Still using Evernote though...  no convincing reason to change.

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I can understand the desire to jump into something new with a lot of attractive bells and whistles. Personally, I have too much important and historical data stored in Evernote to risk a switch to a beta program.  Dropbox Paper has been in beta status for at least a year. Once it is officially released, I will give it a trial. Until then, I will follow Dropbox's advice:

DROPBOX WILL HAVE NO LIABILITY ARISING OUT OF OR IN 
CONNECTION WITH A BETA SERVICE—USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
https://www.dropbox.com/help/9175

p.s. Yes, I also avoid Evernote beta upgrades as well.

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

I don't doubt that once Dropbox Paper gets out of this beta stage, it'll be far better than Evernote in some aspects. I don't think it'll be better in all aspects, because Paper isn't trying to compete with Evernote

Can you expand on which aspects are important for you.
For me, the important points are storing and retrieval of my data and sync between my devices
Sharing feature is also important for collaboration

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40 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Can you expand on which aspects are important for you.
For me, the important points are storing and retrieval of my data and sync between my devices
Sharing feature is also important for collaboration

One of the most important things for me that Dropbox Paper has that Evernote doesn't is consistency. They don't have one feature available on Web that isn't available on an app. I stil can't get over the fact that folders and sub-folders aren't available on Evernote Web. Don't get me started on how idiotic Stacks are, because you need a mobile device to create them. You also can't change the font. I wouldn't mind if you couldn't change the font at all, but you can on the Web and can't on the app. Idiotic. 

Next is images. On Dropbox Paper, I can resize an image, center it, align it to the left or right, and make comments and a comments section rather than either in chat or by editing the notes themselves.

Next is design. The design of Evernote Web make using it slow and unpleasant. I preferred the old Evernote Web. Dropbox Paper has a light UI, it's smooth and I love how clean it is. It makes writing more productive for me rather than just having everything on one screen thrown at you. I love how the formatting toolbar shows up only upon double click on the Web version. 

There's plenty more where that came from, but that's the general idea for me and why I prefer Dropbox Paper. 

I do, however, like how Evernote has a split view. Left for notes and right for editing and viewing. 

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23 minutes ago, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

One of the most important things for me that Dropbox Paper has that Evernote doesn't is consistency. They don't have one feature available on Web that isn't available on an app. I stil can't get over the fact that folders and sub-folders aren't available on Evernote Web.

For me, Folders and Sub-Folders was never a requirement
- Just a method of organization
I was happy to give up that method years ago and switch to a Tags methodology
fwiw  Evernote is consistent on all platforms, no Folders or Sub-Folders :)

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Just now, DTLow said:

For me, Folders and Sub-Folders was never a requirement;
Just a method of organization
I was happy to give up that method years ago and switch to a Tags methodology

How do tags work if you have the same tags for both work and personal use and you only wish to view tags for work documents? That's my issue with tags. There's no separation. 

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16 minutes ago, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

How do tags work if you have the same tags for both work and personal use and you only wish to view tags for work documents? That's my issue with tags. There's no separation. 

Not a requirement for me, but there would be various solutions
For example, prefix all your work tags with "W-"
I actually use tag prefixes to create classes of tags. as in ?Who !What @Where 
Some people use separate Work and Personal Notebooks

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2 hours ago, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

How do tags work if you have the same tags for both work and personal use and you only wish to view tags for work documents? That's my issue with tags. There's no separation. 

If a tag means something does it mean the same thing at work and home?  For example, I have a Phone.Log tag which is used for both work and home.  It's the other tag(s) that focus the note so I don't have separate tags for work and home phone log notes.  Out of interest what is an example of when you need separation, just wondering? 

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5 minutes ago, csihilling said:

If a tag means something does it mean the same thing at work and home? For example, I have a Phone.Log tag which is used for both work and home.  It's the other tag(s) that focus the note so I don't have separate tags for work and home phone log notes.  Out of interest what is an example of when you need separation, just wondering? 

I hear that, I guess I'm just not used to the whole tag system yet. I came from Google Apps and Dropbox, having used both for many years and relied heavily on specified folders, so maybe I'm just not using tags correctly. I think it was another users who suggest using prefixes if there the same tag is being used for both home and work. Some tags would be "Articles." For work, I write articles. For personal use, I save Articles. Or, for Reviews. I write reviews, but I also save reviews to read later. I guess there's an easy fix for that, being that the tagging system is powerful, so I may have just been over-thinking it this whole time.

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:

Not a requirement for me, but there would be various solutions
For example, prefix all your work tags with "W-"
I actually use tag prefixes to create classes of tags. as in ?Who !What @Where 
Some people use separate Work and Personal Notebooks

Prefixes are a fantastic idea, you just made my experience a whole other level of productive, thanks! Yeah, I use separate notebooks as well.

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I tried Paper in beta and found it lackluster. I really like downloadable software, as long as it's lean and efficient, because it plugs into the OS in ways web-based software can't. I use Evernote's system-wide keyboard shortcuts all the time, and to lose them would not be worth moving everything to web. I do think the web viewer should be able to do everything the installed software can do within web-based parameters, but working 100% from the web isn't efficient, to me. Chrome is a resource MONSTER and flipping tabs is a lot harder than flipping through software windows. Much harder to snap half and half on screen with other software. There are lots of features you only really get once you install software, and I don't want to lose that. Besides the fact that Paper is really more of a pared-down Google Docs than Evernote. Evernote's OCR, clipper, advanced tagging/organizing, and multitude of other features make it MUCH more of an organizational power tool than Paper. Paper's a great way to hash out ideas with coworkers and create basic outlines for projects and tasks. 

Honestly, I'm a bit confused what Dropbox is even trying to do with Paper. It seems to me like they haven't quite made up their minds yet. So, I'll wait and see where they take it once out of beta. 

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On 12/1/2016 at 11:55 AM, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

I hear that, I guess I'm just not used to the whole tag system yet. I came from Google Apps and Dropbox, having used both for many years and relied heavily on specified folders, so maybe I'm just not using tags correctly. I think it was another users who suggest using prefixes if there the same tag is being used for both home and work. Some tags would be "Articles." For work, I write articles. For personal use, I save Articles. Or, for Reviews. I write reviews, but I also save reviews to read later. I guess there's an easy fix for that, being that the tagging system is powerful, so I may have just been over-thinking it this whole time.

Well I'm sure you will morph to what works best for you.  I started out with some prefixes and double tags, but eventually changed my thinking to the same concept should be represented by the same tag, no matter the context.  Good thing about EN, it was easy for me to make that adjustment when the time came. 

If I applied that logic to your example, I might have multiple article and review tags since the article is a different concept for work or home (Article.work and Article.Home, article first to facilitate an all article search).  Or an article tag with home and work tags.  Anyway, again I'm sure you will find your own sweet spot.

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On 12/1/2016 at 11:23 AM, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

How do tags work if you have the same tags for both work and personal use and you only wish to view tags for work documents? That's my issue with tags. There's no separation. 

??

Tags are just strings of text. They work the way that you set them up. If you want separate work tags, then you have to make separate tags; You make your own separation, if that's important to you.

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On 12/1/2016 at 11:03 AM, chirmer said:

... I use Evernote's system-wide keyboard shortcuts all the time, and to lose them would not be worth moving everything to web... Chrome is a resource MONSTER... Evernote's OCR, clipper, advanced tagging/organizing, and multitude of other features make it MUCH more of an organizational power tool than Paper. ...

+1

I've been playing around with Dropbox paper but haven't made the full switch yet because of the above.

Dropbox Paper needs to make:

  1. Deleting files easy. It's weirdly difficult now.
  2. a decent tagging system
  3. an offline version.

Once they do that, I think a huge number of people - both current Evernote users and people looking for a note-taking software - will find Paper's simplicity and reliability very attractive.

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On 12/1/2016 at 2:11 PM, csihilling said:

I started out with some prefixes and double tags, but eventually changed my thinking to the same concept should be represented by the same tag, no matter the context.

That's the way I feel about it, too. If I need specific context, I use something else, much as I'd do for a specific search term which may have multiple meanings.

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Man I'm super bummed! I bought a Chromebook and have loved every part of it, until I got Evernote (which I was highly recommended by a friend) and realized the web version has no keyboard shortcuts compared to the downloadable version. I'm starting a new semester in the morning and was really looking forward to having a great tool to take all of my notes on. Guess I'll have to keep searching.. 

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11 hours ago, Max Bush said:

Man I'm super bummed! I bought a Chromebook

And you think Dropbox works better on a Chromebook?

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Just use GDrive. My biggest gripes with using GDrive as a data storage / retrieval solution are all Windows-related and don't apply to Chromebooks (since you have no choice anyway ;) ). Otherwise, between the Drive and Docs you get all of the features you need for class notes taking. Text search in PDFs and images, spreadsheets, sync with phones etc. Also Keep is great for short term notes. Check Kami for PDF annotation.

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I'm back, with my new discovery. Consol.io, which offers what Evernote does, but more, including: end-to-end encryption, powerful tagging and organizations, Calendar, Tasks, file organization, bookmarking tools, and more. Check it out for yourself.

As I said before, I used to love and use Evernote and if it weren't for Consol, then I'd be on Dropbox. There's no more innovation or creativity left on Evernote and the Web interface just makes me laugh because there's no customization.

do see why so many people love it, but this is my opinion. I prefer Consol.

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5 hours ago, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

I'm back, with my new discovery. Consol.io, which offers what Evernote does

Thanks, just took an quick look and I see

- Platforms: only Web

- Export Options: None

To put this in perspective; these points are important to me but would not matter to  many people

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$192 per year for end to end encryption...

No client apps, so all my data is hosted by a bunch of people I don't know, on who know's what and I can't even get a local backup?

No mobile apps.....

2.4 on the TOS - reserves the right to view content, remember how much fuss that caused here earlier this year....

3.4 on the TOS - reserves the right to impose a data storage limit on your account at any time at their discretion

Privacy - they can track your location and may not delete your content from their backups

Attachments/files are not encrypted

No support?

Just had a quick look and it looks fairly high risk to me.

 

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4 minutes ago, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

At least with E2EE they can't access your data if it's encrypted.

Just to be clear on encryption thing

I understand encrypting data on my computer, and then uploading it to the cloud

How does the encryption work on a web application?

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Dropbox Paper is the development I am closely watching.

I am a prime customer with Evernote but literally cannot read any note on the EN web client on a Win 10 10inch notepad. I have no problem with any Dropbox web views including papers. 

There are really terrific ideas behind Evernote. But as the programmers make or break usability I am fairly convinced by now that Evernote programmers for Windows are lame ducks. He who cannot master 10 inch view reflow must go back to college to learn his trade first and he who takes money without offering the service he promises will eventually reap the fruits of his failing efforts.

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1 minute ago, JohnLongney said:

Dropbox Paper is the development I am closely watching.

I am a prime customer with Evernote but literally cannot read any note on the EN web client on a Win 10 10inch notepad. I have no problem with any Dropbox web views including papers. 

There are really terrific ideas behind Evernote. But as the programmers make or break usability I am fairly convinced by now that Evernote programmers for Windows are lame ducks. He who cannot master 10 inch view reflow must go back to college to learn his trade first and he who takes money without offering the service he promises will eventually reap the fruits of his failing efforts.

You actually make an excellent point here. +1. Haha.

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On 1/22/2017 at 11:37 PM, Max Bush said:

Man I'm super bummed! I bought a Chromebook and have loved every part of it, until I got Evernote (which I was highly recommended by a friend) and realized the web version has no keyboard shortcuts compared to the downloadable version. I'm starting a new semester in the morning and was really looking forward to having a great tool to take all of my notes on. Guess I'll have to keep searching.. 

I know! I have a Chromebook too, I was disappointed.

You can try out Dropbox Paper or Consol.io. Whichever environment you prefer.

The Chrome Web Store has an extension called "ain't" text editor. It has Workspaces like Notebooks, no tagging, though. It's minimal.

You can also try OneNote, Google Keep, Diaro and Journey. Both are great notebook or journaling tools.

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@Mike Kuplevatsky

If you're the same person who wrote this article: https://kuplevatsky.com/2016/10/10/consol-io-knocks-out-competition-bringing-together-collaborators-thinkers-doers/, then congratulations. Its first paragraph is a real knockout. To wit, arrogant, crass, condescending, and yet pretty much content-free; for instance, how, specifically, does it stack up against the competitors it is supposedly knocking out? I quote:

Quote

Today, we’ll be talking about a new productivity tool called Consol and why it’s important for you, if you’re a decent human being, to check it out and allow it to rock your world. Don’t know what Consol is? ***** you. You can’t handle this article. How the ***** did you even manage to come across my article?! Go read a book about the history of tampons. (Says the guy writing this, who looks like a ferret that gave up on itself ten years ago).

What is Consol?

What you’re about to read is one seriously ***** important article. Every single god-damn word.

Consol is badass. We’re talking Arnold Schwarzenegger and Lou Ferrigno, who had their genes combined to create the strongest baby on earth and this baby punched Sylvester Stallone and Stallone ***** blew into pieces. It’s more badass than that.

OK, then, that was two paragraphs; it gets less vulgar, but remains information light. Anyways, it turned me right off. Tone and presentation are important, but this is what Consol.io is lauding for publicity (https://www.consol.io/consol-io-knocks-competition-bringing-together-collaborators-thinkers-doers/)?  I did trawl through the actual Console.io site's information, but found their model confusing; by contrast, I find Evernote's to be simple and flexible in ways that suit me (maybe I've just used it for so long, it's super familiar, but I don't recall that it caused any confusion when I first started); notebooks, notes and tags; pretty simple. I might have checked Consol.io out more thoroughly but the free trial is only 30 days, not long enough for me at this time. If it works for you, then great; we should all have tools that we like to use. I'll stick to Evernote, thanks just the same.

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On 27/01/2017 at 8:55 PM, jefito said:

If it works for you, then great; we should all have tools that we like to use.

 

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On 1-12-2016 at 4:59 PM, Mike Kuplevatsky said:

Next is images. On Dropbox Paper, I can resize an image, center it, align it to the left or right, and make comments and a comments section rather than either in chat or by editing the notes themselves.

Hello Mike,

I don't think that this is possible, to resize any images in Dropbox's Paper. I tested it today and it is the reason for me to not opt for Dropbox Paper for my business. 
Having said that, Evernote Web's options for image handling are just... well... none existent! I just can't get my head around the fact that Evernote offers nothing for endusers who need to use images in their text/lists. It's impossible. Try inserting an image in your text or list in Evernote... it is just remarkable that with today's web standards... Evernote just inserts our images at the very end of your document/note. Seriously... we are living in 2017. Look at OneNote from Microsoft... try the webversion: this webapp gives us all we need on images... you can drag them anywhere on the screen, resize them... place them inside tables, etc, etc.  Evernote, hello?

Hopefully Evernote catches up. Thank you for considering this for a future version.
 

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2 hours ago, Grover_evernote said:

Hello Mike,

I don't think that this is possible, to resize any images in Dropbox's Paper. I tested it today and it is the reason for me to not opt for Dropbox Paper for my business. 
Having said that, Evernote Web's options for image handling are just... well... none existent! I just can't get my head around the fact that Evernote offers nothing for endusers who need to use images in their text/lists. It's impossible. Try inserting an image in your text or list in Evernote... it is just remarkable that with today's web standards... Evernote just inserts our images at the very end of your document/note. Seriously... we are living in 2017. Look at OneNote from Microsoft... try the webversion: this webapp gives us all we need on images... you can drag them anywhere on the screen, resize them... place them inside tables, etc, etc.  Evernote, hello?

Hopefully Evernote catches up. Thank you for considering this for a future version.
 

Precisely because it's 2017, you don't need a proprietary database for your data when you have OCR-searchable, accessible, cross-platform, often open-source tools that utilize common file formats. I can see using Onenote - and perhaps even Evernote - as a project collaboration tool for a team, but for personal information storage, and long term data storage, a file system all the way, for me at least. I can take my notes using any number of tools, I can quickly find them using a number of tools, I can take web page clips using a number of tools, I can quickly copy documents using a number of tools, and I don't depend on any single tool anymore, because for every one I prefer, there's at least one or two more that do the same thing, and all of my files are in common file formats that don't require exporting or importing. It's been a really liberating experience.

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