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johnmarshall4

Please don't kill the list view

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Every few years you guys try and kill list view. Last time it was the Mac client and now the new web client. Please don't.  Many of us use that view. It is very useful to see my note's tag and dates at the same time.

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Thank you for your feedback. We will take this into consideration as we continue to improve the Beta. - Nancy

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I can't speak for everyone but to me personally the whole point of the list view is not to eliminate images. It's to have additional information available at a glance. Tags, dates etc. Millions of people using two-panel file managers like Total Commander or Double Commander (or the 'Detailed' view in Windows Explorer) may indicate it's not a niche requirement.

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I can't speak for everyone but to me personally the whole point of the list view is not to eliminate images. It's to have additional information available at a glance. Tags, dates etc. Millions of people using two-panel file managers like Total Commander or Double Commander (or the 'Detailed' view in Windows Explorer) may indicate it's not a niche requirement.

 

 

Indeed. List views (two-panel file managers) are all about maximising information density and are thus an extremely useful tool for experienced knowledge workers with "real work" to accomplish. It's why we see information-dense UIs such as list views in nearly all serious productivity tools.

 

Unfortunately for Evernote Web users, it appears Evernote is targeting its Web Beta at a different type of user, for whom a "clean" UI is the overriding requirement, with information density (and thus productivity) clearly not a priority.

 

Evernote has had months and months of feedback that the Web Beta hinders the productivity of experienced Evernote users, but is sticking to its guns. The conclusion must be that the Evernote Beta is aimed at a different user base, likely to be new/novice Evernote users, not experienced knowledge workers for whom productivity is key.

 

Unless Evernote changes course (of which there is currently no sign...) then it seems reasonable to conclude that these experienced knowledge worker types will have no choice but to begin looking elsewhere for their productivity tools. Sad, I know, but I don't see what the alternative is.

 

I'm still using Evernote Web (the current non-beta version), but will probably be abandoning Evernote if/when this is deprecated and replaced with the Web Beta. Also, I've stopped evangelising about Evernote to friends/family until I see what path Evernote chooses.

 

This is all very disappointing, but we have to deal with the hand we're dealt not the hand we'd choose ourselves.

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Please do not bring Evernote down to the lowest common denominator. I don't care about pretty, I need fast, functional and flexible. 

 

List view was one of the reasons for not switching to OneNote.

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Hello! Can you help me understand your preference for List View over Snippet view? Is it just the density of information? aka the # of notes that you can see, or in addition is it the tags & the quick sort ability. Just trying to understand the problems folks are running into with the options menu right now so we can continue to improve. 

 

Nancy 

 

 

I can't speak for everyone but to me personally the whole point of the list view is not to eliminate images. It's to have additional information available at a glance. Tags, dates etc. Millions of people using two-panel file managers like Total Commander or Double Commander (or the 'Detailed' view in Windows Explorer) may indicate it's not a niche requirement.

 

 

Indeed. List views (two-panel file managers) are all about maximising information density and are thus an extremely useful tool for experienced knowledge workers with "real work" to accomplish. It's why we see information-dense UIs such as list views in nearly all serious productivity tools.

 

Unfortunately for Evernote Web users, it appears Evernote is targeting its Web Beta at a different type of user, for whom a "clean" UI is the overriding requirement, with information density (and thus productivity) clearly not a priority.

 

Evernote has had months and months of feedback that the Web Beta hinders the productivity of experienced Evernote users, but is sticking to its guns. The conclusion must be that the Evernote Beta is aimed at a different user base, likely to be new/novice Evernote users, not experienced knowledge workers for whom productivity is key.

 

Unless Evernote changes course (of which there is currently no sign...) then it seems reasonable to conclude that these experienced knowledge worker types will have no choice but to begin looking elsewhere for their productivity tools. Sad, I know, but I don't see what the alternative is.

 

I'm still using Evernote Web (the current non-beta version), but will probably be abandoning Evernote if/when this is deprecated and replaced with the Web Beta. Also, I've stopped evangelising about Evernote to friends/family until I see what path Evernote chooses.

 

This is all very disappointing, but we have to deal with the hand we're dealt not the hand we'd choose ourselves.

 

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Hello! Can you help me understand your preference for List View over Snippet view? Is it just the density of information? aka the # of notes that you can see, or in addition is it the tags & the quick sort ability. Just trying to understand the problems folks are running into with the options menu right now so we can continue to improve. 

 

Nancy 

 

 

I can't speak for everyone but to me personally the whole point of the list view is not to eliminate images. It's to have additional information available at a glance. Tags, dates etc. Millions of people using two-panel file managers like Total Commander or Double Commander (or the 'Detailed' view in Windows Explorer) may indicate it's not a niche requirement.

 

 

Indeed. List views (two-panel file managers) are all about maximising information density and are thus an extremely useful tool for experienced knowledge workers with "real work" to accomplish. It's why we see information-dense UIs such as list views in nearly all serious productivity tools.

 

Unfortunately for Evernote Web users, it appears Evernote is targeting its Web Beta at a different type of user, for whom a "clean" UI is the overriding requirement, with information density (and thus productivity) clearly not a priority.

 

Evernote has had months and months of feedback that the Web Beta hinders the productivity of experienced Evernote users, but is sticking to its guns. The conclusion must be that the Evernote Beta is aimed at a different user base, likely to be new/novice Evernote users, not experienced knowledge workers for whom productivity is key.

 

Unless Evernote changes course (of which there is currently no sign...) then it seems reasonable to conclude that these experienced knowledge worker types will have no choice but to begin looking elsewhere for their productivity tools. Sad, I know, but I don't see what the alternative is.

 

I'm still using Evernote Web (the current non-beta version), but will probably be abandoning Evernote if/when this is deprecated and replaced with the Web Beta. Also, I've stopped evangelising about Evernote to friends/family until I see what path Evernote chooses.

 

This is all very disappointing, but we have to deal with the hand we're dealt not the hand we'd choose ourselves.

 

 

Hi!

Personally, I'm after >various information visible at a glance< plus the accompanying ability of rapid:

- sorting

- data entry

So to me it's not only about the number of notes visible at once.

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For me high information density effectively expands short term memory. So the more notes I can get on my screen, and the more ways I can filter and sort them, the better.

 

 

 

Hello! Can you help me understand your preference for List View over Snippet view? Is it just the density of information? aka the # of notes that you can see, or in addition is it the tags & the quick sort ability. Just trying to understand the problems folks are running into with the options menu right now so we can continue to improve. 

 

Nancy 

 

 

I can't speak for everyone but to me personally the whole point of the list view is not to eliminate images. It's to have additional information available at a glance. Tags, dates etc. Millions of people using two-panel file managers like Total Commander or Double Commander (or the 'Detailed' view in Windows Explorer) may indicate it's not a niche requirement.

 

 

Indeed. List views (two-panel file managers) are all about maximising information density and are thus an extremely useful tool for experienced knowledge workers with "real work" to accomplish. It's why we see information-dense UIs such as list views in nearly all serious productivity tools.

 

Unfortunately for Evernote Web users, it appears Evernote is targeting its Web Beta at a different type of user, for whom a "clean" UI is the overriding requirement, with information density (and thus productivity) clearly not a priority.

 

Evernote has had months and months of feedback that the Web Beta hinders the productivity of experienced Evernote users, but is sticking to its guns. The conclusion must be that the Evernote Beta is aimed at a different user base, likely to be new/novice Evernote users, not experienced knowledge workers for whom productivity is key.

 

Unless Evernote changes course (of which there is currently no sign...) then it seems reasonable to conclude that these experienced knowledge worker types will have no choice but to begin looking elsewhere for their productivity tools. Sad, I know, but I don't see what the alternative is.

 

I'm still using Evernote Web (the current non-beta version), but will probably be abandoning Evernote if/when this is deprecated and replaced with the Web Beta. Also, I've stopped evangelising about Evernote to friends/family until I see what path Evernote chooses.

 

This is all very disappointing, but we have to deal with the hand we're dealt not the hand we'd choose ourselves.

 

 

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An option to seeing the tags in the list view would be hugely helpful for me.

 

I'm a writer. I used to give each writing project its own notebook. Eventually that got cumbersome as the old ones long since completed were in the list every time I wanted to move a note to a notebook. So instead of notebooks I've started to use a tag for each project name and put all the project notes in one Projects notebook, and the notes for the completed ones in an Archived Notes notebook. (I still want a proper archiving option, but that's another discussion.) 

 

But lots of notes for planning fiction projects will have the same title, though for different projects - "Outline" "Character List" "Locations" etc. So if I'm working on a couple of projects at once, then I either have to include the project name in the title or show the snippets so I can check if that's the Outline for project A or project B etc. Or I have to look at notes tagged for one or the other project, rather than just All Notes, where I can hop quickly between the notes for current projects, which will usually be up at the top of Most Recently Updated.

 

Anyway, that's why I'd like to be able to see tags in the list view. As an option of course, since I'm sure plenty of people don't want to see tags in that view.

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Hey Nancy,

 

I'm with Becky Black.  I think the ability to have options is probably the way to go.  Being able to remove images and note text was a huge boon to the Web Client's usability.  Having options to include things like tags and notebooks in the list view could also be beneficial.  I, for one, use list view on the desktop to make sure groups of notes are categorized accordingly.  Do I have the dates updated, the right tags, etc.

 

Part of it is about showing more notes on the screen, but I also think that for some of us it's about having related context information around notes without having to actually open them.

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Hey Nancy,

 

I'm with Becky Black.  I think the ability to have options is probably the way to go.  Being able to remove images and note text was a huge boon to the Web Client's usability.  Having options to include things like tags and notebooks in the list view could also be beneficial.  I, for one, use list view on the desktop to make sure groups of notes are categorized accordingly.  Do I have the dates updated, the right tags, etc.

 

Part of it is about showing more notes on the screen, but I also think that for some of us it's about having related context information around notes without having to actually open them.

 

Thanks for the feedback!

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Good afternoon,

The list view is essential when using Evernote to implement GTD. In the Action notebooks each note is essentially a to-do item (with supporting information in the body). So having a list view is very efficient to see everything that needs to be done in the current context. 

Also seeing the associated tags is more useful than seeing the date the note was created or updated. 

Read up on the The Secret Weapon, or head over to David Allen's web site and see how they implement GTD on Evernote.

There are other tools for implementing GTD - I've recently tried Nozbe and Nirvana - but no one, absolutely no one, has the ability to capture information like Evernote. I just hope Evernote still provides an interface that makes implementing GTD smooth and easy as opposed to a compromise.

Thanks,

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On April 1, 2016 at 10:16 AM, schultzter said:

The list view is essential when using Evernote to implement GTD.

I don't have list view on my iPad, but its not critical to my implementation of GTD
I have saved searches to provide me my task list to focus on.

>>Also seeing the associated tags is more useful than seeing the date the note was created or updated.
For me, the most used reason for the top list view on my Mac is so I can easily sort on title/create-date/update-date
I like having that grid view of all my note metadata.  I wish I could add a Reminder-Date column

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8 minutes ago, DTLow said:

my implementation of GTD

What's your implementation? I'm trying to follow The Secret Weapon (TSW) but I'm not 100% sold on it.

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On April 1, 2016 at 0:15 PM, schultzter said:

What's your implementation? I'm trying to follow The Secret Weapon (TSW) but I'm not 100% sold on it.

I've taken points from GTD and TSW.

I'm a tag enthusiast; action items are identified by the tag !Actionable 
(TSW uses Task notebooks)

I have three organization steps: Collection, Process, Do
 
1. Collection
    - I dump everything into my Inbox notebook, tasks, clippings, etc.  
      I may process the note then or later in a mass cleanup
    - Various Input Methods
       Manual Notes
       Web clippings
       Scanner and Camera
       IFTTT
    - I make sure all my task/todo items are in Evernote
 
 
2. Process
  • Shortcut Process-Inbox
          - identify actionable notes - tag as !Actionable
          - move notes from my Inbox notebook to Filing notebook
  • Shortcut Process-Actionable
    - identifies all tasks with no priority (date frame)
    - specify a project id tag
          - Identify priority by date frame
             Date specific notes are assigned a Reminder Date
             Notes for immediate work are assigned a current Reminder date
             If there is no specific date, I use generic tags; Later/Someday
             Next Actions are flagged
 
3. Do
  • As mentioned above, Notes are identitied with priority (date frame)
          I have three GTD list shortcuts
                         Now identifies notes to be acted on for the current date (based on Reminder Date)
                         Next identifies next actions not covered by the Now shortcut
                         Projects identifies project master notes
  • Periodically Projects are reviewed and the reminder dates are adjusted for notes as required
  • Archive: I just use a generic !Archive tag to exclude notes from my searches
 
Tools
- Notebooks Inbox, Filing
- Reminder Date for date specific notes
- Tags: I use ?Who, !What, @Where. When class tags
- Shortcuts; can be tags, notebooks, searches or a combination
        . Process-Inbox, Process-Actionable, Process-Projects
        . Now/Next/Later/Someday; specifies task priority; Now is driven by Remider Date
        . Project Id; Group tasks for project reviews
- Script (Apple) and IFTTT recipes
        . Start my daily journal note
        . Perform backups
       . Begin note with template
- Templates (notes in Envernote)
- Email > Evernote
       . On my iPad, I just forward my email to my Evernote address
        . On my Mac, I have a tool to do a more direct transfer
- Calendar Collector from Cronofy which automatically creates a calendar event when I add a Reminder date
 
Backups
- As a Mac user, I have time machine backups, but I’ll probably never use them
- I consider the Evernote web servers and the copy of notes on my Ipad as part of my backup process..
- External (iCloud)
  A full HTML backup is stored externally
  A full Enex backup is stored externally and updated weekly
  Previous day changes exported to html and enex;  Evernote also has a Note History feature
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5 hours ago, DTLow said:

classifications such as ?Who, !What/.Commonplace, @Where

That looks pretty good. I remember now back in my Palm Pilot days when I GTD'd Outlook. I did something like that too with punctuation at the beginning of the category. I may just draw some plagiarisminspiration from your implementation! Thanks.

Part of my issue is I'm using Evernote Web (I'm on Linux at home) so it's not 100% as functional as the Windows or Mac apps.  

I'm going to check-out Cronofy, that looks cool. I'm pretty happy with Evernote Reminders and the daily emails.

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On 4/2/2016 at 8:59 PM, schultzter said:

punctuation at the beginning of the category

So here's what I'm doing now that I'm up and running for a few weeks. Things are going pretty well. 

To make sure my the tags on my notes/to-dos sort consistently I adopted the following punctuation prefixes because the sort order is the ASCII table:

+ for Contexts, like +home and +work and +agenda

0-9 for Priorities, like 0-Daily, 1-Now, ..., 9-Done

= for Projects, like =Blog, =Maintenance, ...

? for Who, like ?John Oliver, ?Stephen Colbert, ...

So I know the first tag will always be the Context, the second the Priority, etc. It makes quickly scanning a list much more effective without having to do too much filtering - which Evernote could certainly do better at - like AND & OR so I could have +work AND (0-Daily OR 1-Now).

From there everything actionable is in my Inbox (which I can filter by Context - some Contexts overlap physical locations, like being on-line or making phone calls can happen almost anywhere these days) and everything else is in my Reference stack (or my Xrchive if it's a completed action with interesting notes).

Thanks @DTLow for your help getting started.

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On April 13, 2016 at 7:47 AM, schultzter said:

0-9 for Priorities, like 0-Daily, 1-Now, ..., 9-Done

I never liked the 0-9 prefix and use When
For example When Later  When Soon  ....
As I start typing the tagname When I get a dropdown list of my priority tags

Instead of a "Now" tag, I make use of the Reminder Date feature
"Now" is a shortcut to a search: reminderTime:* -reminderTime:day+1 -reminderdonetime:* -tag:!Archive
This allows me to future date tasks so they automatically trigger into my "Now" classification

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On 4/13/2016 at 10:47 AM, schultzter said:

the tags on my notes/to-dos sort consistently

I just tried the new Windows version, and the tags are not sorted there! I'm not sure how they are ordered, I guess in the order they are added.

In the Windows version I can sort the Tag column though, which is something I can't do on the web version. 

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So, has listview been removed from both desktop and the web apps?

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2 hours ago, rimboma said:

So, has listview been removed from both desktop and the web apps?

Still there on the desktop platforms (Mac, Windows)
The issue was with the new web beta version.

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