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Remmy

Be warned about Evernote and how they treat their customers

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For those of you out there who don't use Penultimate: this used to be a very good note-taking app by Evernote. Last week, they ruined the whole experience by updating the app to a completely new version. The Penultimate sub-forum has filled up with literally hundreds of complaints and people pleading the company to roll back to the previous version. Up to now, there has been little response from the Evernote company. Users have lost data / notes due to the update. Users with a special Adonit Jot Scipt ('Evernote edition') stylus suddenly can't write properly with the stylus within the Penultimate app. To make matters worse, Evernote did not update their help / support site for the new version of the app, leaving people guessing how to use it (remember, it was a total redesign!).

 

The lastest / only response from Evernote has been to post a FAQ on the forum for the new version, and an arrogant message telling people they only want 'constructive criticism' in this topic. No response at all to the hundreds of complaints.

 

Please take note of this and reconsider if you want to keep doing business with this company.

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You have deleted multiple notes on my clients which will cost me thousands of dollars due to your change in format.  You could have warned your clients so that they could remove notes from the penultimate app. This is not acceptable and, in addition, you don't make yourself accessible so that we can see how a fix can be done.  You have screwed me and I don't know if I can trust your company - I am pissed beyond belief!!!!

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Specifically, the Evernote forum manager said: "Anything that is flame-ish and not informative I'll move over to the other thread. I don't want to quash any feedback, but I do want to filter as much of the constructive feedback into this thread so we can more easily reference your replies for our development and design teams." Happy to hear disagreement and criticism, of course, and I am often the one critical of this or that in the Evernote service. But, please recognize that this is a community, and speaking for myself, I'd like to see everyone respecting others and their opinions. The FAQ thread and posts by developers are responses to complaints from users like yourself. I am sure that GBarry and the developers would like to hear your comments, and that is why they are welcoming them in that thread. 

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You have deleted multiple notes on my clients which will cost me thousands of dollars due to your change in format.  You could have warned your clients so that they could remove notes from the penultimate app. This is not acceptable and, in addition, you don't make yourself accessible so that we can see how a fix can be done.  You have screwed me and I don't know if I can trust your company - I am pissed beyond belief!!!!

Evernote staff are apparently aware of reports of dataloss. This shouldn't be happening. Can you confirm that your content hasn't just been consolidated into the single notebook called "Penultimate"?

 

For example, if you had several penultimate notebooks in the previous version, those would all now appear as notes within a single Penultimate notebook represented by a circle. 

In this case it isn't a matter of data loss, but rather a change in how your data are presented. 

 

You can also look at the Evernote application on your desktop or mobile device  to see if your penultimate content is still there, but perhaps not being piked up by Penultimate for some reason. 

 

If your notes are still absent, then it might be a real case of data loss, which would warrant a support ticket. 

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I have been following the Penultimate debacle with interest - and this seems to have had enormous repercussions, one of which - and right up there - is the loss of data. From the droves of people who have commented about their experience, it seems like many have suffered a very real data loss - not one of notebooks being consolidated into a single Penultimate notebook.

 

This is a significant and widespread error on Evernote's part. Also, the phrasing of what was actually said can be as buttered up and as pragmatic as they like - but in light of their non-responsiveness, I do find it pretty disconcerting. Just as @Remmy said, they did ask for constructive criticism/ feedback. Same difference. And @Remmy is free to interpret that as arrogant. Besides, how difficult is it to filter feedback? Honestly.

 

Evernote messed up big time on this one and should be apologetic at the very least. I see none of that in all sincerity. It's easy to be diplomatic about something when one has not lost any data himself... but let's talk about other sore points - and every member here will make @Remmy's rant pale in comparison. 

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The last upgrade of penultimate is just a disaster. I spent four hours in the last two days getting my information back.

1. Provide an option to switch back to old design and application behaviour.

2. Give advice how to retrieve lost data

I just cannot believe what i have to experience.

Not to mention my first meeting on monday morning, german local time when i first opened penultimate after the weekend... 

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I switched to Notes Plus awhile ago simply because of the lack of responsiveness to us here.  Still love my choice. 

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I switched to Notes Plus awhile ago simply because of the lack of responsiveness to us here.  Still love my choice. 

 

And you still love the Evernote forums  ;)

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I've written two emails to Phil Libin on this issue in the vain hope that he might care. Reposting the most recent one here:

 

Dear Mr. Libin,

It has been nearly a week since the Penultimate update interrupted your users' workflows and in some cases destroyed their data. The response to date -- first silence, then framing our complaints as "feedback" to be considered in future bug-fix releases -- has been worse than amateurish, and wholly inadequate.
 
Who pushed for the release of what was clearly an unfinished and deeply flawed product, and why? When will you and the management team take responsibility for this debacle and issue a formal apology? 
 
Most importantly, what concrete steps will you take to regain your users' trust? You must understand that simply issuing another update, while obviously necessary, is no longer even close to sufficient. How can we expect you to not repeat this breach of trust when you have not even acknowledged that it occurred?
 
I will continue to raise these questions until you provide satisfactory answers to your user base.
 
Sincerely,
gbcb
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You have deleted multiple notes on my clients which will cost me thousands of dollars due to your change in format.  You could have warned your clients so that they could remove notes from the penultimate app. This is not acceptable and, in addition, you don't make yourself accessible so that we can see how a fix can be done.  You have screwed me and I don't know if I can trust your company - I am pissed beyond belief!!!!

Evernote staff are apparently aware of reports of dataloss. This shouldn't be happening. Can you confirm that your content hasn't just been consolidated into the single notebook called "Penultimate"?

 

For example, if you had several penultimate notebooks in the previous version, those would all now appear as notes within a single Penultimate notebook represented by a circle. 

In this case it isn't a matter of data loss, but rather a change in how your data are presented. 

 

You can also look at the Evernote application on your desktop or mobile device  to see if your penultimate content is still there, but perhaps not being piked up by Penultimate for some reason. 

 

If your notes are still absent, then it might be a real case of data loss, which would warrant a support ticket. 

 

 

There is something really sick in the way Evernote's employees behave AFTER they are well aware of massive dataloss. The crappy app is still in the appstore, users who don't know what's going on still update -> more pain, more dataloss. Every single day, every single hour there's more unhappiness in the world generated by this app only.

 

This shows how Evernote really cares about its customers and their notes.

 

I once lost a notebook with 400 notes in it (a bug on Evernote's side, not my fault). After that I'm a synchronization maniac (automanic, manual, database backups, time machine).

 

Guess what?

 

I lost my notes!

 

Simply because I happened to travel on 13-14. Three planes, four airports, no wifi, jetlag. Everything I wrote and drew and planned in Penultimate in this trip is lost.

 

Yes, one can open a ticket. Then what? Free users will never get a reply, paid users with any luck will get an automatic one pointing at gbarry's post about how great circles are, much better than rectangles. 

 

Sure, if one wants to stick these notes into one's аss – then I totally agree, circles are better. 

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Free users will never get a reply, paid users with any luck will get an automatic one pointing at gbarry's post about how great circles are, much better than rectangles. 

 

Sure, if one wants to stick these notes into one's аss – then I totally agree, circles are better. 

 

 

Comment of the week!

 

Evernote has completely lost the plot now. The last Windows client update was a triumph of form over function and avoided the opportunity to fix the very many outstanding bugs (yet helpfully managed to include some new ones). The web client update is another design-led disaster, and now Penultimate has been eviscerated.

 

The clamour of complaints from very upset Penultimate users hasn't caused any useful response other than a derisory FAQ which should have been in place up front anyway. It's blindingly obvious that Evernote doesn't care about its established user base AT ALL.

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I also wonder: Does Evernote have a comms team, or anyone at all to advise them on communications or crisis strategy? I work in communications, and I think that's a large part of why I keep coming back to watch this train wreck. It's fascinating to see how poorly they're handling this.

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(Though kudos to them for having the guts to let irate customers take over their company's forum  :rolleyes:)

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Yes, one can open a ticket. Then what? Free users will never get a reply, paid users with any luck will get an automatic one pointing at gbarry's post about how great circles are, much better than rectangles.

I tested this out on a separate free account. I did get a reply, sure, it was over a week later (I actually had no expectations that I'd get a reply at all), but it was complete and satisfactory. It may depend on the issue; in this case, I was seeking a procedure for shutting down an Evernote account, and that might have been an easy cut/paste for the support person.

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Yes, one can open a ticket. Then what? Free users will never get a reply, paid users with any luck will get an automatic one pointing at gbarry's post about how great circles are, much better than rectangles.

I tested this out on a separate free account. I did get a reply, sure, it was over a week later (I actually had no expectations that I'd get a reply at all), but it was complete and satisfactory. It may depend on the issue; in this case, I was seeking a procedure for shutting down an Evernote account, and that might have been an easy cut/paste for the support person.

 

 

 

Last time I tried to submit a ticket as a free user (less than a month ago) the page resulted in "Ask the community!" link to this forum (https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/71385-no-more-free-tickets-for-free-users/).

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Last time I tried to submit a ticket as a free user (less than a month ago) the page resulted in "Ask the community!" link to this forum...

 

 

I have created a new post here on some interesting statistics as they apply to what volunteer forum members are increasingly dealing with as a result of similar facts to the one you just mentioned: 

 

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/76307-is-the-evernote-forum-becoming-predominantly-a-complaints-board-substitute-for-evernote-support/

 

You've got to take your hats off to the core (volunteer) member base (of which I don't count myself a part yet)...

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Phil Libin just wrote a brief email response to questions I raised about Penultimate and Evernote. You can read it here.

 

Apologies for linking to another one of my posts in a different thread and sub-forum, but I think it's relevant to this discussion.

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Phil Libin just wrote a brief email response to questions I raised about Penultimate and Evernote. You can read it here.

 

Apologies for linking to another one of my posts in a different thread and sub-forum, but I think it's relevant to this discussion.

 

Thanks for that. It is refreshing to see a personal response from the CEO himself, no matter how brief. 

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Phil Libin just wrote a brief email response to questions I raised about Penultimate and Evernote. You can read it here.

 

Apologies for linking to another one of my posts in a different thread and sub-forum, but I think it's relevant to this discussion.

 

Thanks for that. It is refreshing to see a personal response from the CEO himself, no matter how brief. 

 

 

This is NOT refreshing to me.  What else could he say???

 

This whole episode clearly demonstrates that Evernote has NOT learned anything from their prior major disasters with iOS and Skitch.

And what about CEO Phil LIbin's promise in Jan 2014 to focus on quality???

 

It is clear that Evernote either does not have a real QC dept/process, or the product managers are able to ignore it or go around it when they wish.  Sorry to be so blunt, but we have been complaining about the poor internal testing and quality control for a very long time now, to no avail.

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This is NOT refreshing to me.  What else could he say???

 

This whole episode clearly demonstrates that Evernote has NOT learned anything from their prior major disasters with iOS and Skitch.

And what about CEO Phil LIbin's promise in Jan 2014 to focus on quality???

 

It is clear that Evernote either does not have a real QC dept/process, or the product managers are able to ignore it or go around it when they wish.  Sorry to be so blunt, but we have been complaining about the poor internal testing and quality control for a very long time now, to no avail.

 

 

I actually quoted Phil Libin's own words from his January 2014 blog post in thanking him for his response. Hopefully he and his team will recognize that this is a worrying pattern and will take steps to address it.

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This is NOT refreshing to me.  What else could he say???

 

This whole episode clearly demonstrates that Evernote has NOT learned anything from their prior major disasters with iOS and Skitch.

And what about CEO Phil LIbin's promise in Jan 2014 to focus on quality???

 

It is clear that Evernote either does not have a real QC dept/process, or the product managers are able to ignore it or go around it when they wish.  Sorry to be so blunt, but we have been complaining about the poor internal testing and quality control for a very long time now, to no avail.

 

 

You're right... the word "refreshing" sounds a little too optimistic. Rather, it's nice to see a sliver of an apology. I say this based not only on that brief response, but also together with the much broader response on the Penultimate overhaul on the Evernote blog. Although a similar response to the January blog post, which I previously highlighted in a recent post, it is a teeny bit humbling to be admitting the same mistake all over again. That, in my book, counts for something. And I am sure the Vice President of Mobile Products, Jamie Hull, does not speak on his own behalf. It was obviously sanctioned by Phil Libin. The brief email reply and the blog post go hand in glove.

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I am sure the Vice President of Mobile Products, Jamie Hull, does not speak on his own behalf.

 

her own behalf  :)

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I am sure the Vice President of Mobile Products, Jamie Hull, does not speak on his own behalf.

 

her own behalf  :)

 

 

If only she were as famous as Jamie Oliver. These unisex names get me on occasion. I have been schooled.

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Comment of the week!

 

Evernote has completely lost the plot now. The last Windows client update was a triumph of form over function and avoided the opportunity to fix the very many outstanding bugs (yet helpfully managed to include some new ones). The web client update is another design-led disaster, and now Penultimate has been eviscerated.

Still using Windows Evernote 4.6.7.8409, and loving it !!

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You might try 5.0, EN sped up on that one.

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I've been an EN user since 2008, but I recently acquired a Surface Pro 3 and love how easy and effortless it is to take notes using the pen in OneNote.  See my post in the Windows forum on my thoughts on OneNote / SP3 combination.  If I were Phil, I'd be seriously worried about this.  I have noticed the decline in EN quality and loss of focus over the past several years.  My new project is to transition my EN data into OneNote now, because I'm worried one day I'll wake up to an "Springpad" email from Phil.

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I've been an EN user since 2008, but I recently acquired a Surface Pro 3 and love how easy and effortless it is to take notes using the pen in OneNote.  See my post in the Windows forum on my thoughts on OneNote / SP3 combination.  If I were Phil, I'd be seriously worried about this.  I have noticed the decline in EN quality and loss of focus over the past several years.  My new project is to transition my EN data into OneNote now, because I'm worried one day I'll wake up to an "Springpad" email from Phil.

 

I worry about no email and waking up one morning to find no web interface, no forum, no nothing. 

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I've been an EN user since 2008, but I recently acquired a Surface Pro 3 and love how easy and effortless it is to take notes using the pen in OneNote.  See my post in the Windows forum on my thoughts on OneNote / SP3 combination.  If I were Phil, I'd be seriously worried about this.  I have noticed the decline in EN quality and loss of focus over the past several years.  My new project is to transition my EN data into OneNote now, because I'm worried one day I'll wake up to an "Springpad" email from Phil.

 

I worry about no email and waking up one morning to find no web interface, no forum, no nothing.

It'll be a very Zen feeling, no doubt...
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I've been an EN user since 2008, but I recently acquired a Surface Pro 3 and love how easy and effortless it is to take notes using the pen in OneNote.  See my post in the Windows forum on my thoughts on OneNote / SP3 combination.  If I were Phil, I'd be seriously worried about this.  I have noticed the decline in EN quality and loss of focus over the past several years.  My new project is to transition my EN data into OneNote now, because I'm worried one day I'll wake up to an "Springpad" email from Phil.

 

I worry about no email and waking up one morning to find no web interface, no forum, no nothing.

 

It'll be a very Zen feeling, no doubt...

 

Just Evernote wearables...

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Evernote tinfoil wearables!! Now *there's* an idea for The Market. :)

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Evernote tinfoil wearables!! Now *there's* an idea for The Market. :)

 

With a decent antennae for 4G reception and manageable sync times. The tagline would just be, "I remember!"

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Sync? The Overlords do not use this outmoded "sync" thing you mention. It all operates via quantum entanglement...

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... which is all above my head. So I will trust that there's something to a cone-shaped, tin-foil hat. That, and the fact that the "Eye" can see me and read my thoughts whenever I put it on. 

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