Penultimate 6 FAQ and How-To Info

gbarry · November 17, 2014

Thanks so much for the continued feedback around the new Penultimate 6.0. In addition to working to address any and all concerns, we’ve pulled together a Penultimate 6.0 FAQ, available below. An official user guide is on the way. A list of feedback under review is in the last section.

What’s New

Penultimate 6.0 is a complete rewrite of Penultimate for smoother writing and better organization. Each "notebook" from Penultimate 5 will appear as a vertically scrolling note in Penultimate 6, which matches how they are stored and viewed in Evernote. Use two fingers to scroll up and down, and keep scrolling to get more paper. Users may now organize their Penultimate notes into multiple Evernote notebooks, which appear as colored circles in the app. Your Penultimate notes can now exist in any Evernote notebook, and not just the default Penultimate notebook. This is an extra level of organization for users that was previously only available within Evernote.

6.0 Feature breakdown

New UI for focused writing
Write in full screen and keep writing without stopping to add new pages. Use two fingers to scroll up and down notes.
Create new notes, and access different kinds of paper, more quickly
New highlighting tool
Improved connection process, writing quality, and accuracy for the Jot Script stylus
More powerful search
View by default all Evernote notebooks that contain Penultimate notes
Access and add notes to your Evernote notebooks, including business notebooks
View your Penultimate notes in Evernote

FAQ

What versions of iOS is Penultimate compatible with?
Penultimate 6.0 requires iOS 8.0. The previous version of Penultimate is available on the App Store only for users who haven’t yet updated to iOS 8.0.

Scrolling is not working. How do I get it back?
Scrolling may be disabled if you have turned on drift. Turn off drift to restore scrolling.

Does Penultimate work on my iPhone, iPhone 6 Plus, or iPod Touch?
No, Penultimate is for iPad.

Is Dropbox auto-backup still supported?
Dropbox auto-backup is not supported in this release. This will be supported in a future release.

Can I view pages in landscape / lengthwise format?
No, Penultimate pages are in portrait format.

Can I write in landscape / lengthwise format?
Yes. Pages are always presented in portrait mode. When the device is in landscape orientation the page maintains its orientation to support landscape handwriting.

How-Tos

How to access existing Penultimate notebooks:
Existing Penultimate notebooks are now represented as a stack of pages that form a single note. You can access individual pages by opening a note and then scrolling with two fingers.

Notes in Penultimate 6 are sorted by Evernote notebook, so users with notes in multiple notebooks will not see all their notes on screen at the same time. Only Evernote notebooks containing Penultimate notes will be shown in the interface, so the user must first move a Penultimate note into that notebook in another Evernote client. After syncing, the Evernote notebook should show up as a circle in the notebook list in the app.

How to exit a notebook:
To exit the current notebook, tap the notebook at the top of the screen.

How to move a note to a different notebook:
This is currently not supported in the app. Users should use other Evernote clients to move Penultimate notes.

How to export notes:
Long press the note and slide your finger over the share icon. Choose the file type to export (this is only available if you have selected the “export notes as .pen format” under the sharing section in setting). Choose an app to receive the file. To export to Dropbox, the Dropbox app must be installed.

How to print notes:
Long press the note and slide your finger over the share icon. Choose to export as PDF. Select Print.

How to connect Jot Script:
Make sure your stylus is turned on. Open up the writing view and then open the menu if it is closed. Then tap the pen button with a bluetooth icon. Tap and hold the circles and follow the instructions on screen. This can also be accomplished under Settings > Jot Script Evernote Stylus Setup.

How to delete a note or notebook:
Long press the note or notebook and slide your finger over the trash can.

How to rename a note or notebook:
Long press the note or notebook and slide your finger over the "i."

How to enable iTunes backup:
This is currently not supported in the app.

Reported issues under review
We’re reviewing and passing along feedback over to the development team. Here’s a list of items that are presently under review:

Finding your place within longer notes
Page indicators
Ink rendering is thicker (different)
Two finger scrolling isn’t working
Drift needed, more space for zoom box
Zoom box should stop when you stop writing
Clear all function should be added
Landscape papers not showing up in landscape

Tippis · November 17, 2014

A more common question that needs to be answered is:

Why did you not release this new app as its own product, seeing as how it has little to nothing to do with the fundamental purpose of Penultimate?

By the way, as a counter-breakdown of your feature breakdown, consider this:

The skeumorphic design was fit for purpose. It allowed instant, easy, and intuitive access to everything. It was not distracting in any way. That is just a silly assertion with no apparent basis in reality. If you felt it was ugly, then that's one thing — aesthetics can be addressed without slashing and burning functionality. The metaphor of pages in a book works. It is used everywhere, and for a good reason.
The new design is not immersive, since it requires you to take your focus away from the actual writing far more often and since it offers exactly zero means of doing large-scale document manipulation — you have to constantly worry about doing everything exactly right from the start. The new design also does not give you access to all the tools you need. Instead, it requires you to jump through more hoops every time you need anything, and woe betide if you are a bit clumsy in your tool selection since that creates junk on your page. Oh, and scrolls have not been fit for purpose since, oh, the first century AD or so — that is itself another immersion breaker. That metaphor is no longer used anywhere, again for good reason.
The full-screen overlay zoom is perfect because it allows both large-scale input and constant overview of where are in the document. It does not make you lose your concept of space — it does the exact opposite since you always see what you're doing.
The zoom box makes you lose your concept of space, and reduces your ability to control your position on the page. It does not improve your access to tools (since there is no real difference) and just puts you even further away from some common editing actions. It also makes the entire experience less immersive since you have a hard, unalterable, and not particularly useful split of your screen — suddenly, less than half of that touch area is actually useful for note-taking, and you're stuck in this confined space as if it were one of those POS/Tracking handhelds that DHL lugs around, where you always have to sign the dotted line in the tiny window or you won't get your package.

By the way, not to be (very) mean, but I can't help noticing that in your illustration of the zoom in v6, the zoom box does not correspond to what's currently being edited. This was probably not your intent, but it is very indicative of the state of your app right now. The fact that you didn't notice this rather belies the claim that the new view somehow improves your spatial awareness on the page.

Some counter-points to your FAQ

Disabling scrolling is always bad — never take control away from the user. Oh, and there is no way to turn off drift because drift no longer exists in the app. Auto-scroll at a pre-determined and 100%-incompatible-with-everything speed is not the same thing as the drift functionality that made Penultimate a stand-out app.
Disallowing landscape viewing is bad — again, never take control away from the user. It was previously possible to create landscape documents, for instance for interactive presentations, and that functionality is now gone for no apparent reason.

Some required additions to your How-to

How do I insert pages in the middle of a document?¹
How do I remove pages from the document?¹
How do I rearrange the order of pages in the document?¹
How do I quickly navigate to the middle, end, or any other part of a 50+ pages document?¹
How do I make the zoom follow my writing rather than force the opposite (and inevitably fail at it)?
How do I select objects that exist at the edge of the page?
How do I restore the line width of documents opened in v6.0?

And, perhaps more importantly:

How do I (legally) get hold of a copy of Penultimate that already does all these things, and which offers far better precision and responsiveness in writing — i.e. Penultimate 5.3.1.ipa?
Alternatively: when can we see the vast array of missing functionality restored to version 6 in such a way that it can at least begin to resemble a proper Penultimate update?

¹ If the word “page” offends some design sensibility, just substitute with “a large, logically coherent section of notes”.

Skottk · November 17, 2014

Please let me know immediately whether the old version will be made available on itunes for download. Otherwise, does anyone have a recommendation for a replacement app for me on the ipad?

Look guys everybody screws up sometimes. Coke brought back classic coke. Just release the old app again and you and work on fixing the new app. That way I can keep working with penultimate.

ScottLougheed · November 17, 2014

Please let me know immediately whether the old version will be made available on itunes for download. Otherwise, does anyone have a recommendation for a replacement app for me on the ipad?
Look guys everybody screws up sometimes. Coke brought back classic coke. Just release the old app again and you and work on fixing the new app. That way I can keep working with penultimate.

There is already a thread with a rather detailed discussion about alternatives. I suggest you consult that. It's in this very sub-forum.

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/75511-please-anyone-suggest-a-new-note-taking-app/

Skottk · November 17, 2014

One more thing. The idea that having one long continuous note is better or more in line with the ipad is silly. People have the option of writing books on scrolls today, just like they have for 5000 years. nobody does because books with logical breaks makes more sense

Shakespeare212 · November 17, 2014

I think most of us on this forum understand the nature of the format change, but what we're trying to tell you is that we specfically purchased Penultimate because it was in a Notebook simulating format. This change is not so much an addition of value, but a complete destruction of the Notebooks we intentionally created over the years in that structure.

Please give us the option to restore the notebooks and journals we created, including the thumbnail page view so we don't have to scroll through the entire note to find a single piece of content. I can understand wanting to increase compatibility with the Evernote platform, however, this redesign is not aligned with the needs of your users.

CarynVainio · November 17, 2014

I sent in a support ticket several days ago that said my old notebooks -- which had thumbnails for me to find pages and allowed me to write in landscape, which is a frequent use when I sketch -- are now useless, infinite scrolling single notes.

The response I got was being directed to this thread to say how awesome the new update is.

Really, Evernote? THAT'S your response?

mike12045 · November 17, 2014

If you haven't synced your iPad with iTunes, you may be able to get the old one back.

Delete the garbage version from your iPad.

MAKE SURE THAT ITUNES IS NOT SET TO SYNC AUTOMATICALLY

Plug in the iPad, selectit in iTunes, and go to Apps. If your old Penultimate icon is there, you're golden. Just click on the Install button, and click on Apply (or whatever it says at the bottom.) The old app will install. Log into your Evernote account, and your notes will synced.

YMMV, but this worked for me.

EDIT: Well, this sucks. Somehow, the reinstallation has morphed back to the new, worthless version. Notability, here I come...

franck44 · November 17, 2014

look gbarry, do you really think the posts on the forums are "continued feedback"?

More than 260 people took some time to tell you the new app was useless. Having new useless features is ... useless.

I also received the email from the Evernote support team redirecting me to this forum.

Is Evernote a workplace with only a bunch of amateurs?

Be serious, roll back the old app 5.3.

I have already downloaded Bamboo Paper (and tried other apps). If the old app is not available within 24 hours you'll loose hundreds of users, regardless of how great your new features in 6.0 are.

Notwithstanding the 1-star rating on the app Store.

Thanks so much for the continued feedback around the new Penultimate 6.0. In addition to working to address any and all concerns, we’ve pulled together a Penultimate 6.0 FAQ, available below. An official user guide is on the way.

What’s New

Penultimate 6.0 is a complete rewrite of Penultimate for smoother writing and better organization. Each "notebook" from Penultimate 5 will appear as a vertically scrolling note in Penultimate 6, which matches how they are stored in viewed in Evernote. Use two fingers to scroll. Users may now organize their Penultimate notes into Evernote notebooks, which appear as colored circles in the app. This is an extra level of organization for users that was previously only available within Evernote.

6.0 Feature breakdown

New UI for focused writing

Write in full screen and keep writing without stopping to add new pages. Use two fingers to scroll up and down notes.

Create new notes, and access different kinds of paper, more quickly

New highlighting tool

Improved connection process, writing quality, and accuracy for the Jot Script stylus

More powerful search

View by default all Evernote notebooks that contain Penultimate notes

Access and add notes to your Evernote notebooks, including business notebooks

View your Penultimate notes in Evernote

FAQ

What versions of iOS is Penultimate compatible with?
Penultimate 6.0 requires iOS 8.0. The previous version of Penultimate is available on the App Store only for users who haven’t yet updated to iOS 8.0.

Scrolling is not working. How do I get it back?
Scrolling may be disabled if you have turned on drift. Turn off drift to restore scrolling.

Does Penultimate work on my iPhone, iPhone Plus, or iPod Touch?
No, Penultimate is for iPad.

Is Dropbox auto-backup still supported?
Dropbox auto-backup is not supported in this release. This will be supported in a future release.

Can I view pages in landscape / lengthwise format?
No, Penultimate pages are in portrait format.

How-Tos

How to exit notebook:
Notes in Penultimate 6 are divided by Evernote notebook, so users with notes in multiple notebooks will not see all their notes on screen at the same time. To exit the current notebook, tap the notebook at the top of the screen.

How to access existing notebooks:
Only notebooks containing Penultimate notes will be shown in the interface, so the user must first move a Penultimate note into that notebook in another client. After syncing, the notebook should show up in the notebook list in the app.

How to move a note to a different notebook:
This is currently not supported in the app. Users should use other Evernote clients to move Penultimate notes.

How to export notes:
Long press the note and slide your finger over the share icon. Choose the file type to export (this is only available if you have selected the “export notes as .pen format” under the sharing section in setting). Choose an app to receive the file. To export to Dropbox, the Dropbox app must be installed.

How to print notes:
Long press the note and slide your finger over the share icon. Choose to export as PDF (an option only if you have the .pen functionality turned on in settings). Select Print.

How to connect Jot Script:
Make sure your stylus is turned on. Open up the writing view and then open the menu if it is closed. Then tap the pen button with a bluetooth icon. Tap and hold the circles and follow the instructions on screen.

How to delete a note or notebook:
Long press the note or notebook and slide your finger over the trash can.

How to rename a note or notebook:
Long press the note or notebook and slide your finger over the "i."

How to enable iTunes backup:
This is currently not supported in the app.

Bereczky · November 17, 2014

You have turned this otherwise useful tool, something that has kept me in the Evernote universe, into complete *****. Responding to my ticket by directing me to this forum is outright cynical. All I can do here is read other people's identical comments. And no, it does not sooth me, but rather it dissuades me from renewing my subscription with you.

Hello! Money! I don't pay any longer. Hello! Can you hear me?

Please give me back pages in notes. Notes may be an endless stream of code for programmers, but normal people have been using books and notebooks for hundreds of years, and they have done so for a reason. Even scrolls have an end and a beginning.

Warm regards.

(I cannot believe this. I have actually bothered to register here to vent my anger. You behave like early-days Microsoft. Incredible.)

Tippis · November 17, 2014

You have turned this otherwise useful tool, something that has kept me in the Evernote universe, into complete *****. Responding to my ticket by directing me to this forum is outright cynical. All I can do here is read other people's identical comments. And no, it does not sooth me, but rather it dissuades me from renewing my subscription with you.

Hello! Money! I don't pay any longer. Hello! Can you hear me?

For the record, the terms of service (https://evernote.com/legal/tos.php) offer this suggestion under the section “Right to Modify the Service”:

You also acknowledge that a variety of Evernote actions may impair or prevent you from accessing your Content or using the Service at certain times and/or in the same way, for limited periods or permanently, and agree that Evernote has no responsibility or liability as a result of any such actions or results, including, without limitation, for the deletion of, or failure to make available to you, any Content. You agree that we shall not be liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension or discontinuance of any part of the Service. However, if you are a subscriber for Evernote Premium, Evernote Business or another paid version of the Service (each a “Premium Service”) and find that any such modifications or interruption of the Premium Service adversely affects you, you may notify our Customer Support team, explain the adverse impact the modification has created and, if you desire, request a termination of your Premium Service. Upon receipt of any such request, we will endeavor to promptly remedy the adverse impact caused by the modification, extend the duration of your Premium Service subscription for a period of time equal to the interruption and/or refund a portion of your Premium Service subscription fee equal to the remaining unused term of the Premium Service subscription, as we determine appropriate.

Referring to the highlighted sections might help you in your communication with the support team.

KnRomig · November 17, 2014

WAY.

TOO.

LITTLE.

WAY

TOO.

LATE.

Quit the charade.

Just state what everyone here knows - but are hoping against hope to not be true.

Evernote will not revert to Penultimate V5 types of functionality.

Evernote's ideas of how to interact with Penultimate V6 are the "correct" ones.

Evernote doesn't give a spit about all the content lost by its customers.

Evernote doesn't give 2 spits about how its customers actually use its products.

Just say it. Either that or really impress us and stop fighting your customers and provide what each and every one needs, V5. Period.

(So what if Evernote just spent some $$$ on development. Sunk costs are sunk. And sometimes investments don't generate what the investor believed).

I for one am moving on. Evernote just lost a business level (very small, 4 users) customer that paid it approx $500/year.

Already moving what content I can off of my EN accounts and am investigating several alternatives.

Truly a shame. I had created a rather robust workflow. But in my line of work, mistakes can carry significant consequences.

CarynVainio · November 17, 2014

Here's what I find really weird (among many things) about this update: one of the things they "fixed" was the fact that Penultimate had notebooks with discreet pages, and Evernote pulled those notebooks in as single, continuous scrolling notes.

I always found Evernote's implementation of this to be the flawed one, not Penultimate's. I always used my thumbnails in Penultimate because they were so easy to use, and the only time I ever pulled up notes from Penultimate in Evernote was when a search would pull it up, because a continuously scrolling note is useless to me. I had always hoped they would fix the fact that Evernote didn't pull in Penultimate's notebooks as, you know, notebooks, like they should be.

franck44 · November 17, 2014

Just contacted the "chat" support and here is what we can expect:

Alex: Hello! Hope your day is going well.

Thanks for your patience today

Because this version of Penultimate is brand new, we're activity collecting feedback and may make revisions in the coming weeks and months to address customers' concerns.

If you have any specific aspects of the app you'd like like to provide feedback about, I'd be more than happy to pass your suggestions along to our developers for their consideration

Due to inactivity, this chat session will be ended. Please feel free to chat back with us if you need further assistance. Likewise, you can also send us a support ticket from: evernote.com/contact/support/

Thank you for contacting us.
Chat session disconnected.

Hopeless.

snowman · November 17, 2014

In Total agreement with other posters. I need version five back. This is not an upgrade but a total change of product now limiting my use.

I do not use any writing, to me this is a drawing tool stimulating discussions. That functionality is now successfully killed off.

Make version 5 available separately and allow me to get back to it. And provide some proper answers instead of fobbing people off with a sing song on how wonderful version 6 is.

Alvin C · November 17, 2014

FAQ just reminds me that the handwriting function must be added to Evernote app just like the Android version. I don't know why the Android version is different from the iOS in terms of functions, and the company likes to do something to let Penultimate users suffer.

In this case, replace this app with Notability and even Noteshelf, in which the latter has auto publish to Evernote function.

thm43608 · November 18, 2014

Just contacted the "chat" support and here is what we can expect:

Alex: Hello! Hope your day is going well.
Thanks for your patience today
Because this version of Penultimate is brand new, we're activity collecting feedback and may make revisions in the coming weeks and months to address customers' concerns.
If you have any specific aspects of the app you'd like like to provide feedback about, I'd be more than happy to pass your suggestions along to our developers for their consideration
Due to inactivity, this chat session will be ended. Please feel free to chat back with us if you need further assistance. Likewise, you can also send us a support ticket from: evernote.com/contact/support/

Thank you for contacting us.
Chat session disconnected.

Hopeless.

Coming weeks and months?!? That is completely unacceptable. Give us a usable version while you make this one something efficient.

tombilson · November 18, 2014

Penultimate 6.0 is a complete rewrite of Penultimate for smoother writing and better organization.

-snip-

Can I view pages in landscape / lengthwise format?
No, Penultimate pages are in portrait format.

I think these sort of statements lie at the heart of why so many users feel angry, disappointed and frustrated at the update. It's because - in the face of so many objections from people who have had their work inconvenienced and their patterns of thought disrupted - you're still pedalling the line that Penultimate 6 is better than its predecessor, and making judgements about how it must be used.

Rather than kicking off this topic with a FAQ that addresses current concerns, you've pasted the FAQ that was probably written a few weeks before launch, when everyone at Evernote HQ was living in never never land, convinced that they'd dragged Penultimate out of the age of notebook metaphors. If people want to use landscape format (and there are many good reasons why they might) why on earth stop them? What functional benefit is achieved by reducing options on a piece of software about which you can only guess to which uses people make of it? I made extensive notes in landscape format, but now I can't. Do you think I'm now going to feel A: happy, or B: frustrated?

At the very least have the humility to acknowledge from the outset that Evernote might be mistaken over their vision for Penultimate and that the structure, design and functions of this particular piece of software might, even after testing, be flawed. It's not such a hard thing to do. Remember you make the software to help people to do what they want to do, not what you want them to do, unless of course Evernote is now flexing its muscles and imposing an ideology upon its users? All well and good, but isn't that achieved by taking people with you, rather than alienating them?

It's possible (and perhaps easier) for an organisation to be wrong - or rather believe in a set of wrong assumptions and selectively follow supporting evidence without taking a reality check - as much as for a single person to do the same.

gbarry · November 18, 2014

Thanks for the continued feedback. I've updated the OP to reflect issues that we're currently reviewing and/or working on addressing:

Reported issues under review
We’re reviewing and passing along feedback over to the development team. Here’s a list of items that are presently under review:
Finding your place within longer notes
Page indicators
Ink rendering is thicker (different)
Two finger scrolling isn’t working
Drift needed, more space for zoom box
Zoom box should stop when you stop writing
Clear all function should be added
Landscape papers not showing up in landscape

Tippis · November 18, 2014

Hmm… just to be that annoying forum user:

Another key question that I think needs to be answered is:

What problem do you feel that you are solving by removing pages as the core unit of organisation within a document?

In particular, what problem exists now that makes this removal a “good thing” compared to when the same idea was rejected years ago because it simply did not fit the use case of the app? What is the new use case that you feel has supplanted the tried and tested use case of organising thoughts by page?

thm43608 · November 18, 2014

Thanks for the continued feedback. I've updated the OP to reflect issues that we're currently reviewing and/or working on addressing:

Reported issues under review
We’re reviewing and passing along feedback over to the development team. Here’s a list of items that are presently under review:
Finding your place within longer notes
Page indicators
Ink rendering is thicker (different)
Two finger scrolling isn’t working
Drift needed, more space for zoom box
Zoom box should stop when you stop writing
Clear all function should be added
Landscape papers not showing up in landscape

We should be able to navigate from the zoom box too. For instance, if we use two fingers to swipe left or right in the zoom box at the bottom that we write in, the zoom area should move left/right (similar to the zoom in previous version). We need the same with up and down moving of the zoom box. Since I write a lot of equations on multiple lines, this is essential for me. (The drift feature doesn't cut it (even if it did work properly) because I often have text around symbols and need to move my writing area manually.)

Can we get a timeframe for when we can expect changes? The app is currently not in a usable state; it would be nice to know when it might be again.

tombilson · November 18, 2014

Hmm… just to be that annoying forum user:
Another key question that I think needs to be answered is:

What problem do you feel that you are solving by removing pages as the core unit of organisation within a document?

In particular, why problem exists now that makes this removal a “good thing” compared to when the same idea was rejected years ago because it simply did not fit the use case of the app? What is new use case that you feel has supplanted the tried and tested use case of organising thoughts by page?

This is a good point well made. If Evernote could show us the reasoning behind this decision (which presumably exists and has been documented) then we might at least start to have a dialogue. If you think it was such a good idea to abandon the notebook metaphor then convince us that you were right to do so.

It's a simple request.

thm43608 · November 18, 2014

Thanks for the continued feedback. I've updated the OP to reflect issues that we're currently reviewing and/or working on addressing:

Reported issues under review
We’re reviewing and passing along feedback over to the development team. Here’s a list of items that are presently under review:
Finding your place within longer notes
Page indicators
Ink rendering is thicker (different)
Two finger scrolling isn’t working
Drift needed, more space for zoom box
Zoom box should stop when you stop writing
Clear all function should be added
Landscape papers not showing up in landscape

We also need the option to rearrange pages or add remove pages to/from the middle of a note(book).

Furthermore, we should be able to have pages within one note(book) with different paper types. For instance, I may want one page with lines and the next with graph paper. As far as I can tell, this is not currently supported in v6 (it was in the previous version).

gbarry · November 18, 2014

Thanks for the continued feedback. This is really helpful. We'll likely reach out to a few of you here and in the other major announcement thread for some 1:1 feedback.

We've also published a KB article, which references much of the above: https://evernote.com/contact/support/kb/#!/article/104488346

We've been cataloging responses on all of the Penultimate threads, but please do consider this the "constructive feedback" thread--so that we can really delve into some nuance. Anything that is flame-ish and not informative I'll move over to the other thread. I don't want to quash any feedback, but I do want to filter as much of the constructive feedback into this thread so we can more easily reference your replies for our development and design teams.

Scottt · November 18, 2014

Hi guys,

Please listen to the real live user feedback you are seeing on these threads - this release is a fail - please rollback or rerelease 5.3 and support it in parallel.

Just so you know, my feedback on your usability post is as follows:

1) I was fine with not being able to access my other evernote notes, I can do that through Evernote

2) Having notebooks and flipping through pages was a good, familiar experience, if I wanted to scroll I could always use Evernote (in fact I really don't like the infinite scroll feature in Evernote)

3) Having buttons was good, gestures are what my 3 year old will be good at - you are putting your community through change management for the sake of change

4) The full page zoom was excellent, it was the feature I showed to most new users, I converted several people from Notes Puls/INKredible due to the full page zoom feature

By way of comparison, you might want to look at how Notes Plus handled even small changes in user experience by releasing the new changes as a separate production app.

As a whole, I feel you have fallen victim to one very strong designer's or high ranking manager's opinion - you might wish to choose who you'd rather support at this point, those people or your users.

In future I recommend you test all new features in the community before making wholesale changes. Never take one person's word for anything when it comes to user experience, the only way to be sure is to test.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

Cheers,

Scott

typhoid03 · November 18, 2014

Thanks for the continued feedback. I've updated the OP to reflect issues that we're currently reviewing and/or working on addressing:

Reported issues under review
We’re reviewing and passing along feedback over to the development team. Here’s a list of items that are presently under review:
Finding your place within longer notes
Page indicators
Ink rendering is thicker (different)
Two finger scrolling isn’t working
Drift needed, more space for zoom box
Zoom box should stop when you stop writing
Clear all function should be added
Landscape papers not showing up in landscape
We should be able to navigate from the zoom box too. For instance, if we use two fingers to swipe left or right in the zoom box at the bottom that we write in, the zoom area should move left/right (similar to the zoom in previous version). We need the same with up and down moving of the zoom box. Since I write a lot of equations on multiple lines, this is essential for me. (The drift feature doesn't cut it (even if it did work properly) because I often have text around symbols and need to move my writing area manually.)
Can we get a timeframe for when we can expect changes? The app is currently not in a usable state; it would be nice to know when it might be again.

Additional issues:

- Having the buttons on the writing service is a challenge. Half the time when I go to select a button (say the eraser) I end up writing a dot on my paper and not getting the tool I selected.

- The next line button doesn't jump down to the next available line, I tend to end up at an odd halfway spot

- Odd position for the next line button, I'm writing left to right, so why is the next line button on the left side of the screen? (also the opposite of a standard keyboard)

- Zoom box should not start moving until you start writing

- Having problems with 'c's and 'o's, lots of times they end up looking like 'l'

franck44 · November 18, 2014

It is really stunning to see that these people (at Evernote) think they have time to fix this totally broken update while users are going to wait until everything is working again.

I personally do not want to be involved in this large scale live beta testing endeavour and feed this bugs/issues list.

It worked well 5 days ago and they wrecked the app. Great amateurish job. Good luck now.

gbcb · November 18, 2014

Thanks so much for the continued feedback around the new Penultimate 6.0. In addition to working to address any and all concerns, we’ve pulled together a Penultimate 6.0 FAQ, available below. An official user guide is on the way. A list of feedback under review is in the last section.

Reported issues under review
We’re reviewing and passing along feedback over to the development team. Here’s a list of items that are presently under review:
Finding your place within longer notes
Page indicators
Ink rendering is thicker (different)
Two finger scrolling isn’t working
Drift needed, more space for zoom box
Zoom box should stop when you stop writing
Clear all function should be added
Landscape papers not showing up in landscape

Thank you for your response, but I'm afraid Evernote continues to miss several larger points.

- Your update turns its back on a number of features -- full-screen writing, page-based organization, landscape mode to mention just three -- that were central to the way many of your users used this program. Many of us chose Penultimate precisely because of the features and functionality you have now eliminated.

- The attempt to frame the livid customer response as simple "feedback" -- or to even properly acknowledge our immense frustration -- indicates a total lack of understanding of the degree to which this update has destroyed many users' workflows.

- While it was quickly obvious that the update left many users unhappy, your company has been largely silent until this response -- even sending out marketing emails encouraging upgrades after the initial deluge of criticism. I don't include Josh Taylor's early replies to complaints on this forum. He should be commended for at least trying. The question is why it has taken the rest of you so long.

- The update, the poor initial response, and now the official "thanks for the feedback" approach have worked together to fundamentally betray your users' trust. I have seen no attempts to regain it -- no real acknowledgements of the validity of our frustrations, no apologies, no olive branches. For a company that depends on users trusting it with their data, this defies belief.

This is not only a software issue. The update fiasco has uncovered deep faults within Evernote as a company, and we've moved far beyond problems that can be addressed by a simple bug fix. If Phil Libin and his management team are unable to prove that Evernote continues to deserve my trust, I will cancel my Premium subscription and remove Evernote from my productivity system.

And since I'm here, for what little it's worth... here's a piece of feedback on the app itself: The "infinite toilet roll" approach may work for viewing Penultimate notes on Evernote on a desktop machine, but actually makes quickly reviewing a notebook more difficult on an iPad, which I and many other users use as our primary platform for viewing our handwritten notes.

What a farce.

typhoid03 · November 18, 2014

Also it keeps crashing, I think I have lost near an hour of work today alone

pleasefixpenultimate · November 18, 2014

Based on this response after 4 days I can pretty much guarantee that they will not be going back to Penultimate 5.

I voted with me feet this morning and bought Goodnotes. And after a day I am already glad I made the switch. Penultimate had some good features that I missed, but in looking for a new note app over the last few days I realized it was lacking in many ways too. Like auto shapes, PDF annotation and others.

So good by Evernote and good luck to the rest of you.

Nadya De Angelis · November 18, 2014

To gbarry: just curious, have you actually used the new Penultimate yourself? You personally?

How about that: try to install a "Games" collection – yes, it's not easy, the button "Free download" is not responsive, unless you tap it several times, or maybe you have to find the right angle, or maybe deleting and reinstalling would help.

If you manage to do that, go to "The License Plate Game".

And see what happens.

Isn't it fun?

Please add it to the list of bugs.

koeselitz · November 18, 2014

I'm sorry, but I'm very frustrated, both with Evernote and with the other folks on this forum.

Design issues don't bother me. If the look or feel Penultimate is ruined, I don't care. It's your app - you can do what you want with it - and at worst I'll find another app to use. There is no reason to get upset just because the design of an app changes. What you have still not addressed is the incredibly serious issue of data loss, which is being experienced by many of us. Nobody's said a word about it, though.

If you - like me - had Penultimate but refused to sync with Evernote, preferring to just keep your notebooks locally on your iPad, this updated deleted all your notebooks forever, with no way of recovering them. Furthermore, anyone who hadn't synced since writing a note lost all of that note, too.

Let me repeat that, and please forgive me for shouting, but this is important and needs to be addressed:

THIS UPDATE DELETES ALL NOTEBOOKS FOR ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SYNC WITH EVERNOTE - IT DELETES ALL OF THEM FOREVER!

What could possibly be the reason for this? Did you really not believe that anyone could possibly exist who didn't want to sync with Evernote? Were you so unfamiliar with your own app that you didn't realize that not syncing with Evernote was even an option? Did you believe that everybody is always 100% synced?

It is inexcusable - ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE - that this update hasn't been withdrawn while this problem is fixed! Design issues are one thing, but every single day you leave this update on the App Store people are having their data deleted! Yet you haven't even seen fit to issue a warning in the update description cautioning that people must back up or sync or risk losing all data!

Sincerely: how dare you? How dare you call yourselves a data company and yet demonstrate that you care so little about the data of people who use your app?

Again: every minute you leave this update in the App Store is another minute when some other Penultimate user could have their data deleted forever! For the love of data preservation - you absolutely must withdraw it instantly! To do otherwise is to demonstrate serious and severe disregard for data preservation and for all the people who rely on you!

gbcb · November 18, 2014

I'm sorry, but I'm very frustrated, both with Evernote and with the other folks on this forum.

...

THIS UPDATE DELETES ALL NOTEBOOKS FOR ANYONE WHO DOESN'T SYNC WITH EVERNOTE - IT DELETES ALL OF THEM FOREVER!

...

It is inexcusable - ABSOLUTELY INEXCUSABLE - that this update hasn't been withdrawn while this problem is fixed! Design issues are one thing, but every single day you leave this update on the App Store people are having their data deleted! Yet you haven't even seen fit to issue a warning in the update description cautioning that people must back up or sync or risk losing all data!

This is a good point. I'm frustrated with the design changes, but that's nothing compared to actual data loss.

koeselitz · November 18, 2014

At the very least - and this would really be absolutely minimal, but at least it would be a start - it would be nice if Evernote could put a header on the release notes warning people that they MUST sync through Evernote or back up before updating if they don't want to lose their data. That way at least folks who are paying attention would be able to avoid having their notes deleted. (This would still punish people who don't read the release notes or auto-update, but again, it would be a start.)

Tonmaii · November 18, 2014

Really? Penultimate. Really?

I'm sorry I know you would hate to hear me lashing and I do hate to teach an adult to be an adult.

It's okay for me if its development team made a mistake.

It's okay for me if its development team ***** up sometimes.

It's okay for me if they would like to take time to fix thing up.

It's even okay for me if they won't roll back to 5.0.

As long as they be mature, admit for ***** up, and promise to fix it.

But what is this? It has been almost a week. And you came up with this?

Are you saying most of the problems come from users that they cant figure out how to use the app?

Even if the users really find it really hard to use new features&interface, can't you figure it out it's the problem of design!

(And you didnt mention it but it's also the problem of performance. Boo)

If you really care about customers, can't you apologize? And promise to fix it?

Since you released the update without warning and many people lost their notes, I doubt if you care at all..

rijnb · November 18, 2014

Hi Evernote team, thanks for updating the Evernote products somewhat regularly. I'm a fan and paid user of your products. Unfortunately the newest update of PenUltimate 6 seems to render the app pretty unusable on my new iPad Air.

The issues I'm having are:

1. The app seems to stutter during writing and misses many strokes as a result.

2. It also stutters when scrolling through documents - not extremely bad, but enough to be substandard smooth behavior and distracting.

3. Next to that, I like the cleaniness of the new interfaces, but removing the pages and needing to scrolling with 2 fingers often leaves unwanted vertical strokes on my screen, which I then have to 'undo' - very annoying.

4. The removal of thumbnails for pages (and removing the concept of pages) is very unfortunate for me. I have many larger multi page documents and scrolling through them like this is not really an option. Please reintroduce pages/paging, if only optional.

5. The auto-advance speed during writing in close-up mode used to be variable AFAIK or slower at least. The current speed is way too fast for me to use. This makes writing in close-up mode unusable for me.

I hope this input leads to improvements to your otherwise fine products. In this particular case I would prefer to revert to the previous version until the problems are solved, because my handwriting has become unreadable now and I'm considering using NotesPlus for handwriting again...

Please keep up the good work at Evernote!

Aleksandra · November 18, 2014

Hi guys, can anyone help me please? I've got my 7 notebooks in Penultimate format on my email - can anyone convert them to PDF format for me, please?

Recent update was DISASTROUS!!! I lost everything and I suppose to preparing for exams now....

Thanks Evernote....

ScottLougheed · November 18, 2014

You should be able to add them to penultimate (if they aren't already there), then using Evernote, view your penultimate content. You could also export these notes from Evernote as a PDF.

squido · November 18, 2014

Rats. This tells me you're doubling down on this abomination. Your side-by-side comparison is snarky, insulting, and alienating more users.

This debacle moved from being about technology to revealing how you regard your customer base. You are dismissive, uncommunicative, arrogant and stubborn.

You're about to be a business school case study - make it for the right reasons.

thm43608 · November 18, 2014

Rats. This tells me you're doubling down on this abomination. Your side-by-side comparison is snarky, insulting, and alienating more users.

This debacle moved from being about technology to revealing how you regard your customer base. You are dismissive, uncommunicative, arrogant and stubborn.

You're about to be a business school case study - make it for the right reasons.

Some of the designers have reached out to folks for feedback. I'm just as frustrated with the update, but I do think they are working hard to implement changes. I'm glad to see them actually asking for input. I think the best thing right now would be to continue reporting any bugs you find and any changes you would like implemented.

Phi87 · November 18, 2014

Thanks for the continued feedback. I've updated the OP to reflect issues that we're currently reviewing and/or working on addressing:

Reported issues under review
We’re reviewing and passing along feedback over to the development team. Here’s a list of items that are presently under review:
Finding your place within longer notes
Page indicators
Ink rendering is thicker (different)
Two finger scrolling isn’t working
Drift needed, more space for zoom box
Zoom box should stop when you stop writing
Clear all function should be added
Landscape papers not showing up in landscape

The other one I would add is that my notebooks have been destroyed. I now have a random selection of long pages inside an evernote notebook -- I have no idea where anything is or where I left off.

SilverDragon · November 18, 2014

DATA LOSS.

I didn't experience it myself, but I can feel for those who did.

The switch away from storing data locally in the Penultimate app to storing data in Evernote accounts, with local echo, was, well, inevitable. Evernote sells cloud services, not apps. I get that. I prepared for that. But not everyone is a cynical old software developer like me.

Releasing a version that destroys local data without warning is indefensible.

Many customers had automatic updates turned on. Warnings in the App Store would not have helped these unfortunates. Only a proper email warning announcement, that said "Back up or sync before release day, and keep your data backed up!" would have helped. Delaying release until a method of incorporating local-only data had been worked out would have been a better course of action still.

I am still waiting to hear a word of apology from Evernote about destroyed data.

archisketchure · November 18, 2014

Tippis pretty much nailed it all down for you. I'm an Architect who used this app constantly to sketch and store ideas and details for my staff. All of the new format changes make this app unusable for my purposes. It seems like a bad version of Notability now. I'm sad to have to move on to a different app that will serve my needs. Will probably explore the option of just moving everything over to Dropbox. Definitely won't need my premium account.

gbarry · November 18, 2014

For anyone running into data loss, please check to make sure that the way 6.0 is reorganizing your original Penultimate 5.3.1 notes is not the culprit here. We take every instance of data loss seriously, so I want to be able to verify that's what is happening when you move to 6.0.

Penultimate 5.3.1 notes should be consolidated to a notebook (shown as a circle) called "Penultimate"--and each notebook you had on 5.3.1 now exists as a single, scrolling note within the new Penultimate notebook. So if you had 5 notebooks with notes and drawings, you would have 5 corresponding notes with all of this information intact, that you would then two finger scroll up to see all of your data. I'd like to make sure that data loss hasn't occurred for anyone, outside of the clear feedback that this is not a good solution.

cifip · November 18, 2014

Some required additions to your How-to
How do I insert pages in the middle of a document?¹
How do I remove pages from the document?¹
How do I rearrange the order of pages in the document?¹
How do I quickly navigate to the middle, end, or any other part of a 50+ pages document?¹
How do I make the zoom follow my writing rather than force the opposite (and inevitably fail at it)?
How do I select objects that exist at the edge of the page?
How do I restore the line width of documents opened in v6.0?

Thanks for your feedback.

We're working on getting an updated version submitted to the App Store that will give users better navigation through longer notes (via thumbnails) as well as the ability to remove pages from documents. In addition, a sizable zoom box that is more responsive to users' handwriting and pause when writing stops.

We'll continue working on issues you and others are submitting.

cifip · November 18, 2014

We should be able to navigate from the zoom box too. For instance, if we use two fingers to swipe left or right in the zoom box at the bottom that we write in, the zoom area should move left/right (similar to the zoom in previous version). We need the same with up and down moving of the zoom box. Since I write a lot of equations on multiple lines, this is essential for me. (The drift feature doesn't cut it (even if it did work properly) because I often have text around symbols and need to move my writing area manually.)
Can we get a timeframe for when we can expect changes? The app is currently not in a usable state; it would be nice to know when it might be again.

Thanks for your feedback. Our next release will have a sizable zoom box which I hope will help with your equations on multiple lines.

We're working to submit a release to the App Store as soon as possible. We'll update this thread once we've done so.

cifip · November 18, 2014

Additional issues:

- Having the buttons on the writing service is a challenge. Half the time when I go to select a button (say the eraser) I end up writing a dot on my paper and not getting the tool I selected.
- The next line button doesn't jump down to the next available line, I tend to end up at an odd halfway spot
- Odd position for the next line button, I'm writing left to right, so why is the next line button on the left side of the screen? (also the opposite of a standard keyboard)
- Zoom box should not start moving until you start writing
- Having problems with 'c's and 'o's, lots of times they end up looking like 'l'

Thanks for your feedback.

The next release will have zoom box improvements that will be more responsive your handwriting. We're looking into the other issues you mentioned too.

You also mentioned that the app is crashing - can you provide details (hardware, OS version, what you had been doing in the app, etc.) to help troubleshoot?

KnRomig · November 18, 2014

- Drift needed, more space for zoom box

No. NO box.

Drift, yes (the run away and hide "feature" is just absurd).

As has been stated above, the zoom box is a terrible UI concept. Evernote's assertion that it provides better location awareness is just wrong. Being able to enter zoomed text anywhere is the correct application - the location awareness in the old zoom offered by the slight transparency of the entire note below was particularly clever. This "you will write were we tell you" idea is just poor.

I have already begun moving my notes/flow to Noteshelf (it too has a stupid zoom box - but at least it doesn't make a target practice game out of writing.) I have work to do now, I just can't wait for Evernote to address.

I keep coming back here because I can't keep my eyes of this train wreck. It is almost fun, if not compelling, to watch Evernote scrabble to no effect.

The customer care study is instructive.

I truly relied on Evernote. The amount of lost productivity just to circumvent this mess is significant.

I still hold out hope Evernote can get it "write."

thm43608 · November 18, 2014

We should be able to navigate from the zoom box too. For instance, if we use two fingers to swipe left or right in the zoom box at the bottom that we write in, the zoom area should move left/right (similar to the zoom in previous version). We need the same with up and down moving of the zoom box. Since I write a lot of equations on multiple lines, this is essential for me. (The drift feature doesn't cut it (even if it did work properly) because I often have text around symbols and need to move my writing area manually.)
Can we get a timeframe for when we can expect changes? The app is currently not in a usable state; it would be nice to know when it might be again.

Thanks for your feedback. Our next release will have a sizable zoom box which I hope will help with your equations on multiple lines.

We're working to submit a release to the App Store as soon as possible. We'll update this thread once we've done so.

Thanks. It is important for me to be able to navigate within the writing area at the bottom when using the zoom feature, too. I don't want to have to go back and move the zoom box I should be able to scroll both vertically and horizontally with two fingers right in the writing area. This is a feature that is of the utmost importance to me to be able to write notes efficiently. I've passed the info along to other designers too but wanted to let you know as well.

cifip · November 18, 2014

Hi Evernote team, thanks for updating the Evernote products somewhat regularly. I'm a fan and paid user of your products. Unfortunately the newest update of PenUltimate 6 seems to render the app pretty unusable on my new iPad Air.

The issues I'm having are:

1. The app seems to stutter during writing and misses many strokes as a result.
2. It also stutters when scrolling through documents - not extremely bad, but enough to be substandard smooth behavior and distracting.

3. Next to that, I like the cleaniness of the new interfaces, but removing the pages and needing to scrolling with 2 fingers often leaves unwanted vertical strokes on my screen, which I then have to 'undo' - very annoying.

4. The removal of thumbnails for pages (and removing the concept of pages) is very unfortunate for me. I have many larger multi page documents and scrolling through them like this is not really an option. Please reintroduce pages/paging, if only optional.

5. The auto-advance speed during writing in close-up mode used to be variable AFAIK or slower at least. The current speed is way too fast for me to use. This makes writing in close-up mode unusable for me.

I hope this input leads to improvements to your otherwise fine products. In this particular case I would prefer to revert to the previous version until the problems are solved, because my handwriting has become unreadable now and I'm considering using NotesPlus for handwriting again...

Please keep up the good work at Evernote!

Hi and thanks so much for your feedback.

We'll be addressing a few of those issues in the next release - specifically, a thumbnail tray to help navigate larger notes and a more responsive zoom box. We're investigating the other issues and hope to address in a follow-on release.

cifip · November 18, 2014

Thanks. It is important for me to be able to navigate within the writing area at the bottom when using the zoom feature, too. I don't want to have to go back and move the zoom box I should be able to scroll both vertically and horizontally with two fingers right in the writing area. This is a feature that is of the utmost importance to me to be able to write notes efficiently. I've passed the info along to other designers too but wanted to let you know as well.

Thanks - we'll look into it.

CarynVainio · November 18, 2014

So thumbnails will be added, along with the ability to add or remove pages from the notes. But it sounds like the "old idea = notebook, new idea = single notes" is still being retained?

I don't understand this line of design thinking. Evernote has notebooks that contain individual notes. The old Penultimate had notebooks that contained individual notes. The only place where this didn't line up together was when Evernote imported Penultimate's notebooks, which it turned into single scrolling notes in one notebook called Penultimate.

This has always felt like a bug to me. Why does Evernote not import Penultimate's notebooks as...you know, notebooks? And each page as a single note within that notebook?

It sounds like things are still going to be forced into this weird paradigm of "you don't work in notebooks anymore, you work in single notes! ...Except that these notes will have multiple pages and have thumbnails, but they're totally not notebooks."

Unless I'm misunderstanding? If you guys are reverted back to the old "notebooks containing notes" model, it seems like it'd be easier to just say that, so I'm guessing you're not and this is a weird partial fix.

Polymath · November 18, 2014

Given the response of your customers, would you please consider letting us revert back to the previous version until you sort all the bugs in version 6 and take on board people's comments. I too do not like the continuous pages and the two finger scrolling is clunky and just leaves lines on the page. I also have a problem with the app just quitting.

tinyshamrock · November 18, 2014

I, too, would like to echo what many are asking for in this thread....

Please, PLEASE, rerelease 5 as an app that we can download until 6 is fixed.

typhoid03 · November 19, 2014

Additional issues:

- Having the buttons on the writing service is a challenge. Half the time when I go to select a button (say the eraser) I end up writing a dot on my paper and not getting the tool I selected.
- The next line button doesn't jump down to the next available line, I tend to end up at an odd halfway spot
- Odd position for the next line button, I'm writing left to right, so why is the next line button on the left side of the screen? (also the opposite of a standard keyboard)
- Zoom box should not start moving until you start writing
- Having problems with 'c's and 'o's, lots of times they end up looking like 'l'

Thanks for your feedback.

The next release will have zoom box improvements that will be more responsive your handwriting. We're looking into the other issues you mentioned too.

You also mentioned that the app is crashing - can you provide details (hardware, OS version, what you had been doing in the app, etc.) to help troubleshoot?

re: crashing

iPad Air model code A1489

iOS 8.1

Had happened while I am writing notes using the zoom box

chris01 · November 19, 2014

Get rid of the zoom box or make it an option to use it or the original in-line zoom with a button to zoom in. Also add searchable check boxes so can add "To Do's" that are searchable in Evernote (just like One Note). Also bring back pages. I was using each page as notes for a particular project, then if I needed more pages for more notes I would just insert a new page - how can this be done with continuous scrolling?

mrboynton486 · November 19, 2014

I've been monitoring the replies for a few days now and I haven't seen any replies to the people like me who write in landscape. My old notes are all sideways. Is this a fix on the way?

OnePxOff · November 19, 2014

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not force the zoom box. The full page zoom from v5 was the absolute best and most useful feature. I have tried other apps with these boxes and always came back penultimate because it didn't have such amateur features. These new design "features" make no sense in a sofistcated app such as penultimate. Please listen to your user base and bring back the features that made penultimate so great.

I have been using penultimate since it first came out and it has always stood above the rest in terms of quality and features. It is a shame to see one the great ones fall to some misguided attempt to change for the sake of change.

Aleksandra · November 19, 2014

I've tried to open my notebooks from email ( I stored them there in old version .pen format) on my colegues Penultimate- it doesn't want to open the file in Penultimate or Evernote? It looks like to me version 5 .pen format is not readable by version 6? What's going on?

How otherwise I can change its format to PDF? I've tried any possible converter....

typhoid03 · November 19, 2014

Additional issues:

- Having the buttons on the writing service is a challenge. Half the time when I go to select a button (say the eraser) I end up writing a dot on my paper and not getting the tool I selected.
- The next line button doesn't jump down to the next available line, I tend to end up at an odd halfway spot
- Odd position for the next line button, I'm writing left to right, so why is the next line button on the left side of the screen? (also the opposite of a standard keyboard)
- Zoom box should not start moving until you start writing
- Having problems with 'c's and 'o's, lots of times they end up looking like 'l'

Thanks for your feedback.

The next release will have zoom box improvements that will be more responsive your handwriting. We're looking into the other issues you mentioned too.

You also mentioned that the app is crashing - can you provide details (hardware, OS version, what you had been doing in the app, etc.) to help troubleshoot?

re: crashing
iPad Air model code A1489
iOS 8.1
Had happened while I am writing notes using the zoom box

Now crashing while moving print around in normal view, erasing in normal view, writing in normal view, lost another 1.5hrs of work today

Jesse S. · November 19, 2014

I wanted to request another feature be added back into this new version. I am a teacher and I used to use Penultimate's presentation mode for live interactive whiteboard sessions. I suppose not many people used that function, as I haven't seen any other complaints about it. The older version of Penultimate was the most simple and elegant version of whiteboard display I had found, and it allowed me to then share the notes out with the students. And then, if a question came up and I needed to search for a previous example, I could do that as well.

Now, when I use the new version, it is incredibly distracting to students to watch me zoom in and change pen colors, etc. So much so that I can't use it, and have to find an alternative. I am a premium member, up for renewal next month, and you may loose me without some visible effort to address these problems. As I would tell my students, your business decision was based on a faulty analysis of what is important to your customer, and that is a fatal move.

thm43608 · November 19, 2014

I wanted to request another feature be added back into this new version. I am a teacher and I used to use Penultimate's presentation mode for live interactive whiteboard sessions. I suppose not many people used that function, as I haven't seen any other complaints about it. The older version of Penultimate was the most simple and elegant version of whiteboard display I had found, and it allowed me to then share the notes out with the students. And then, if a question came up and I needed to search for a previous example, I could do that as well.
Now, when I use the new version, it is incredibly distracting to students to watch me zoom in and change pen colors, etc. So much so that I can't use it, and have to find an alternative. I am a premium member, up for renewal next month, and you may loose me without some visible effort to address these problems. As I would tell my students, your business decision was based on a faulty analysis of what is important to your customer, and that is a fatal move.

I actually did not know this feature was available in the previous version. I was wanting something like that but couldn't find anything that would do it. I second this request!

I will be teaching a large lecture next semester and we must use projection equipment (usually doc cams). If this feature were available, I would be able to just use my iPad which would be really good!

Jesse S. · November 19, 2014

I actually did not know this feature was available in the previous version. I was wanting something like that but couldn't find anything that would do it. I second this request!

I will be teaching a large lecture next semester and we must use projection equipment (usually doc cams). If this feature were available, I would be able to just use my iPad which would be really good!

It was pretty outstanding, all that was mirrored on the AppleTV was the note page, in landscape, if you turned the iPad that way. Nice and clean, like a white background version of what Sal Khan does on Khan Academy. Plus the ability to use graph paper or blank sheets, it was very effective.

While presenting, you could zoom in for drawing in more detail on the iPad, while the mirrored page stayed in the full sheet view. I wouldn't mind the always portrait scrolling view that the new version has, but mirroring all of the interface instead of just the note is unacceptable for teaching anything other than how to use the program.

OnePxOff · November 19, 2014

As I would tell my students, your business decision was based on a faulty analysis of what is important to your customer, and that is a fatal move.

I completely agree with this thought. It feels like the this version came from the designers, being bored with the old skewmorphic design, and wanting to change everything just for the sake of change. The zoom box is a complete step backward in usability. Even with so called "improvements" to the zoom box it is not going to be as powerful as the full page zoom was. Every other app has a lame zoom box and it is why I don't use them. If they did beta test this version like they claim, it was only with people internal with the company or with people that are not power users.

Remmy · November 19, 2014

Thanks for the continued feedback. This is really helpful. We'll likely reach out to a few of you here and in the other major announcement thread for some 1:1 feedback.

We've also published a KB article, which references much of the above: https://evernote.com/contact/support/kb/#!/article/104488346

We've been cataloging responses on all of the Penultimate threads, but please do consider this the "constructive feedback" thread--so that we can really delve into some nuance. Anything that is flame-ish and not informative I'll move over to the other thread. I don't want to quash any feedback, but I do want to filter as much of the constructive feedback into this thread so we can more easily reference your replies for our development and design teams.

@gbarry: If I click on the link above (KB article you recommend), I get a message that this article can't be found.

When I click on the 'Knowledbase' link on the bottom of your message, I get my local (Dutch) translation of this page, but this only includes help for the 'old' (5) version of Penultimate.

Is this happening because the information hasn't been updated on the International / Dutch Evernote part of the site? The redirection to the international page occurs automatically, so I don't know how to look at the 'English' language version of the page...

squido · November 19, 2014

INITIAL SCREEN

I don't mingle Penultimate and Evernote so this initial screen is confusing to me and doesn't add value. The iced-over window effect is apt because I feel there's a useless layer obscuring my view. It is not evident what gesture gets it out of the way or penetrates it. See, I'm not sure what to do with the dang thing except it's in my way.

This tight integration with Evernote detracts from Penultimate. If I wanted to see an Evernote Note, I would go to Evernote, no? When I go to Penultimate, I want to resume or create a new note. You've complicated that activity and made it several unintuitive taps away.

TAP PLUS TO ADD NEW NOTE

...is the caption of the second screen shot running down the right of your side-by-side comparison. What plus? There is no plus on this screen!

SELECT PAPER BEFORE CREATING A NEW NOTE

Wrong-headed. I've got a thought to get down. I'm in a hurry. I can change the paper any time. Don't make me think about it now.

IMPROVED WRITING WITH JOT SCRIPT

Did this come at the expense of non-jot script writing because the stroke recognition is very poor. It's delayed and inarticulate. I already have a Pencil by 53 and I'm not buying your stylus. Restore the grace in which it formerly recognized my finger-stroke.

WEIRD OVERLAY EFFECT

I thought it was a brilliant, elegant and uncluttered solution to granting magnification without losing a sense of place. And you accomplished it without adding a single box/boundary/object or restricting my writing space! It is what sold me on your product. It wasn't a "weird overlay," it was a subtle underlay. I could write unencumbered and focus my gaze to the underlay only when I needed a frame of reference. Now I'm in a box that I cannot escape. No, I don't need constant feedback about where I am in relation to the page.

THE DRIFT

I don't need to repeat here how lovely it was in version 5 and how unrelenting and treadmilly it is here. It honestly gives me anxiety - like a conveyor belt I can't keep up with.

There are so many things about v6 that:

make you have to stop and think and recall
intrude upon the flow from head to hand to "paper"
make you fight with the app (like the scroll)
just plain reminds you that it's there. v5 got out of your way.

WHICH IS WHY YOUR BOAST OF DISTRACTION-FREE IS SO PUZZLING. You removed the one toolbar I needed easy, frequent access to. Regarding this new button bar:

Five of 10 buttons are ends of something and look too similar to distinguish themselves.
Every button is within a circle, again making them indistinguishable.
The only indicator of what button is active is the circle is a teeny bit darker which is even less discernible when it floats above my workspace.
Changing color and thickness is now two operations instead of one.
When did a check in the upper right mean "go to home." No! It's a home glyphicon in the upper left. Conform to user expectations.

Far from being a distraction, the toolbar was an anchor and an affordance that made sense. In departing from skeumorphic design you have taken away elements that ground the user. Okay you removed the saddle stitching that bound this virtual notebook but you also took away flipping through pages.

"How to exit a notebook: To exit the current notebook, tap the notebook at the top of the screen."

No, that changes the paper. So, so frustrating. The fact that such an essential activity has to be addressed in an FAQ should tell you something.

ray chamnpney · November 19, 2014

It is hard to believe that this was done without providing an option to stay with the product that I originally subscribed to. In addition to the other flaws in the update the prior note book format allowed me to email my notes directly from my Ipad. I can no longer do this as the notes are not email but a line of code. Am I correct or is there a way to email the notes from my Ipad?

Fineout · November 20, 2014

I like the scroll in the fact that it will save me from having to stop writing to "turn the page." I agree that pages make flipping through documents easier. Hopefully you can implement a scroll writing but page organized feature. Just a red dashed line that meant writing on a new "page" within the scroll would work

koeselitz · November 20, 2014

For anyone running into data loss, please check to make sure that the way 6.0 is reorganizing your original Penultimate 5.3.1 notes is not the culprit here. We take every instance of data loss seriously, so I want to be able to verify that's what is happening when you move to 6.0.

Penultimate 5.3.1 notes should be consolidated to a notebook (shown as a circle) called "Penultimate"--and each notebook you had on 5.3.1 now exists as a single, scrolling note within the new Penultimate notebook. So if you had 5 notebooks with notes and drawings, you would have 5 corresponding notes with all of this information intact, that you would then two finger scroll up to see all of your data. I'd like to make sure that data loss hasn't occurred for anyone, outside of the clear feedback that this is not a good solution.

This is absolutely not the case. There is a notebook now called "Penultimate" that contains very old versions of my data from the last time I synced - over a year and a half ago - some of which should not exist anymore, and many of which are missing because they are newer. I have scrolled through each and every one of these notes, and it is clear that all data not synced to Evernote has been deleted.

There is also a notebook with my old journal in it strangely called "Titanic." Not sure where that came from, but my notes aren't there, either.

I have scrolled through each and every note I have, and can confirm. The data loss is real.

Withdraw the update now. Fix it later. At the very least, warn people that data will be consolidated in the update description.

Aleksandra · November 20, 2014

For anyone running into data loss, please check to make sure that the way 6.0 is reorganizing your original Penultimate 5.3.1 notes is not the culprit here. We take every instance of data loss seriously, so I want to be able to verify that's what is happening when you move to 6.0.
Penultimate 5.3.1 notes should be consolidated to a notebook (shown as a circle) called "Penultimate"--and each notebook you had on 5.3.1 now exists as a single, scrolling note within the new Penultimate notebook. So if you had 5 notebooks with notes and drawings, you would have 5 corresponding notes with all of this information intact, that you would then two finger scroll up to see all of your data. I'd like to make sure that data loss hasn't occurred for anyone, outside of the clear feedback that this is not a good solution.
This is absolutely not the case. There is a notebook now called "Penultimate" that contains very old versions of my data from the last time I synced - over a year and a half ago - some of which should not exist anymore, and many of which are missing because they are newer. I have scrolled through each and every one of these notes, and it is clear that all data not synced to Evernote has been deleted.
There is also a notebook with my old journal in it strangely called "Titanic." Not sure where that came from, but my notes aren't there, either.
I have scrolled through each and every note I have, and can confirm. The data loss is real.
Withdraw the update now. Fix it later. At the very least, warn people that data will be consolidated in the update description.

Aleksandra · November 20, 2014

The same here- all data lost because I never synced with Evernote.... Have some backup on email - unfortunately in .pen format not PDF - not possible to open, I checked all converters available... Can anyone who downgrade Penultimate to version 5 help me please and change format of my 7 notebooks to PdF? Please! I'm devastated... Can't prepare for my exams...

ray chamnpney · November 20, 2014

I had 27 notebooks under the old system and I now have one notebook with 27 stacks of pages in the Penultimate notebook -- actually I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to any of this because I have not receive an answer to my prior two questions. I want my 27 individual note books back, not one notebook with 27 stacks of paper in that note book. My data is there in an unusable format; cannot email notes -- unable to file the notes into the system I was successfully using prior to this change. Beyond frustrated -- lack of customer service bordering on arrogance.

ScottLougheed · November 20, 2014

I had 27 notebooks under the old system and I now have one notebook with 27 stacks of pages in the Penultimate notebook -- actually I don't know why I'm bothering to respond to any of this because I have not receive an answer to my prior two questions. I want my 27 individual note books back, not one notebook with 27 stacks of paper in that note book. My data is there in an unusable format; cannot email notes -- unable to file the notes into the system I was successfully using prior to this change. Beyond frustrated -- lack of customer service bordering on arrogance.

You will have to rebuild your system under the new structure. Definitely a frustration, but at least now the Evernote/Penultimate metaphors are aligned.

You can create new notebooks (which correspond exactly with Evernote notebooks now) and move your 27 notes (formerly notebooks themselves) to those new notebooks using Evernote on your computer or mobile device. More details here:

https://evernote.com/contact/support/kb/#/article/104488346

Email:

You can email notes by tapping and holding any note (formerly a notebook). A trio of buttons should appear, one of which is a share button (box with upward arrow). Tap the share button and select the sharing method of your choice, including email.

talshuv · November 20, 2014

Beside all of the obvious unfortunate changes that have been made, the worst thing is not being able to access many of my previous notes.

Notebooks are being deleted. I cannot find notes that I've created in the previous version.

Is there a solution?

gbarry · November 20, 2014

@gbarry: If I click on the link above (KB article you recommend), I get a message that this article can't be found.
When I click on the 'Knowledbase' link on the bottom of your message, I get my local (Dutch) translation of this page, but this only includes help for the 'old' (5) version of Penultimate.
Is this happening because the information hasn't been updated on the International / Dutch Evernote part of the site? The redirection to the international page occurs automatically, so I don't know how to look at the 'English' language version of the page...

That's correct--I don't think the translations have fully made it out the door yet--we wanted to finalize a few things with that KB article before we sent it off for localization. That should change very soon.

ScottLougheed · November 20, 2014

Beside all of the obvious unfortunate changes that have been made, the worst thing is not being able to access many of my previous notes.
Notebooks are being deleted. I cannot find notes that I've created in the previous version.
Is there a solution?

Can you see those notes in Evernote?

jwnrugg · November 20, 2014

I agree with everything that Tippis has said.

What a disaster! I am a big fan of Evernote and was a big fan of Penultimate. I cannot even fathom the thinking that would produce such an awkward and unusable product. I say unusable, because I decided to add a passcode, and now when I put in my passcode, the screen goes black, stays black, until I hit the home key. The iPad doesn't crash, there just is no visible Penultimate product. By the way, I use Penultimate for client work. I need it every day. When I move to a new product, I won't be coming back. This is so disappointing.

SilverDragon · November 20, 2014

@ScottLougheed, you keep saying "the metaphors are aligned now," like it's a good thing.

The fact is that they're not. The correct alignment would have been Penultimate page = Evernote note, Penultimate notebook = Evernote notebook. The wrong decision was made with the Penultimate notebook = Evernote note, way back when evernote integration was first added to Penultimate. As a retired software developer, i recognize that this was the easy implementation. That doesn't make it the right one.

What I suspect that @ray chamnpney would like to do is to be able to email a single page (or "section" if you insist on avoiding skeuomorphism) from one of his long, long "notes." I don't think this is currently possible in Penultimate 6.0 save by doing a screenshot. Please correct me if I am in error.

I on-boarded with Penultimate after the Evernote integration. I kept my Penultimate notebooks short (I think the longest is 4 pages) and synced because after 30 years in the software industry I recognized a steamroller sitting on the side street with its engine running (to use a skeuomorphic metaphor) in the way the metaphors didn't match and wouldn't match, even if they were renamed to match.

So, it looks like "pages" will be back in some form. Drift will return. A lot of the UI issues will be addressed. Nonetheless, I mourn the loss of full-screen zoom, with drift. I mourn landscape-oriented notes, as well. Penultimate now has a zoom box like every other handwriting app on the market, and apparently will continue to do so. It will not be able to create or display landscape-oriented notes, unlike several other handwriting apps. How sad.

ScottLougheed · November 20, 2014

@ScottLougheed, you keep saying "the metaphors are aligned now," like it's a good thing.

The fact is that they're not. The correct alignment would have been Penultimate page = Evernote note, Penultimate notebook = Evernote notebook. The wrong decision was made with the Penultimate notebook = Evernote note, way back when evernote integration was first added to Penultimate. As a retired software developer, i recognize that this was the easy implementation. That doesn't make it the right one.

Ah, I agree with you, in general. However I would argue that what I suggest and what you suggest both constitute an "alignment of the metaphors", but in slightly different ways. I think your suggestion would jive a great deal more with how users have traditionally used Penultimate than what Evernote has done (and what I have suggested).

gbarry · November 20, 2014

For anyone running into data loss, please check to make sure that the way 6.0 is reorganizing your original Penultimate 5.3.1 notes is not the culprit here. We take every instance of data loss seriously, so I want to be able to verify that's what is happening when you move to 6.0.

Penultimate 5.3.1 notes should be consolidated to a notebook (shown as a circle) called "Penultimate"--and each notebook you had on 5.3.1 now exists as a single, scrolling note within the new Penultimate notebook. So if you had 5 notebooks with notes and drawings, you would have 5 corresponding notes with all of this information intact, that you would then two finger scroll up to see all of your data. I'd like to make sure that data loss hasn't occurred for anyone, outside of the clear feedback that this is not a good solution.
This is absolutely not the case. There is a notebook now called "Penultimate" that contains very old versions of my data from the last time I synced - over a year and a half ago - some of which should not exist anymore, and many of which are missing because they are newer. I have scrolled through each and every one of these notes, and it is clear that all data not synced to Evernote has been deleted.
There is also a notebook with my old journal in it strangely called "Titanic." Not sure where that came from, but my notes aren't there, either.
I have scrolled through each and every note I have, and can confirm. The data loss is real.
Withdraw the update now. Fix it later. At the very least, warn people that data will be consolidated in the update description.

I'd like for us to fully investigate your case and others who are running into missing notes outside of my described scenario. For anyone running into a possible data loss issue, please submit a support ticket, and if possible, provide a list of steps that you took, and an activity log, so that we can more fully investigate.

There is another possible scenario could be at fault for anyone running into missing notes--this may be caused by multiple or different log ins, or the creation of a new account during the first launch experience. Cross checking both your Penultimate and Evernote logins and double checking for additional Penultimate accounts often leads to an additional account with the lost notes. Would also suggest using search in Evernote to find "notes from Penultimate" to see if they're fully synced over to Evernote (if that option was selected). Searching "SourceApplication:Penultimate" in the search box on iOS will pull in Penultimate files.

cifip · November 20, 2014

I've been monitoring the replies for a few days now and I haven't seen any replies to the people like me who write in landscape. My old notes are all sideways. Is this a fix on the way?

Hi - we are working on this, but it will unfortunately not be part of what we submit to the App Store this week. We hope to have it very soon though. Thanks.

bobbijbailey · November 20, 2014

We used to be able to delete/clear a page. Is that possible anymore? (or do I have to use the small eraser and erase the page line by line if I want to keep using the same notebook and keep it current?)

ScottLougheed · November 21, 2014

We used to be able to delete/clear a page. Is that possible anymore? (or do I have to use the small eraser and erase the page line by line if I want to keep using the same notebook and keep it current?)

This is one I dearly miss too! I think part of it is since pages are gone, you'd end up clearing the entire thing! As it stands there is no way for the application to know where to stop clearing since there's no page break.

I think once they figure out what to do about pagination (looks like they are working on this for the next update) they might be able to actually make some progress on a "bulk erase".

SJunto · November 21, 2014

I just received the email that you screwed up and are adding new features. Kudos for realizing this release was a mistake, but I hope you will continue to accept feedback and consider rolling back to v 5 The elegance of the artisan notebook was a hit for a reason. While these new changes seem helpful, they will not revert back to the intuitive ease of the old app. Also, it would be even more noble if you explained WHY you did this. Is it because you bought the company and needed to rewrite for better integration into Evernote? That might make sense, but you can still go back and get it right. Please please please consider going back, taking a deep breath, talking to your customers, and then moving forward. You had achieved something so rare with any product - you improved people's lives and changed the way the work - making them more productive and happier. Please consider going back there and trying to evolve forward again.

fixit · November 21, 2014

I thought I was an idiot when I went to use the new Evernote/penultimate. It is so totally non conducive for my needs.

Please bring back the old version. I tried several different apps including Evernote before I landed on Penultimate. I like the notebooks with pages, I can delete a page or add one in the middle. It worked and flowed like it should.

ScottLougheed · November 21, 2014

Unfortunately I think the blogpost and email make pretty clear that bringing back version 5 is not on the agenda at all, but that they are committed to "improving" version 6 (ok, so you could argue that making version 6 "work" would entail making it identical to version 5, but that's a fairly specious suggestion).

As I see it, the pragmatic way forward is to either look for an alternative (and there are plenty if you aren't committed to having the Evernote integration), or stick with Penultimate and get used to the aesthetic changes while hoping for the best in terms of improvements.

Either way, penultimate users (and former users) are in a position of having to integrate some significant change....

SilverDragon · November 21, 2014

For anyone running into data loss, please check to make sure that the way 6.0 is reorganizing your original Penultimate 5.3.1 notes is not the culprit here. We take every instance of data loss seriously, so I want to be able to verify that's what is happening when you move to 6.0.

Penultimate 5.3.1 notes should be consolidated to a notebook (shown as a circle) called "Penultimate"--and each notebook you had on 5.3.1 now exists as a single, scrolling note within the new Penultimate notebook. So if you had 5 notebooks with notes and drawings, you would have 5 corresponding notes with all of this information intact, that you would then two finger scroll up to see all of your data. I'd like to make sure that data loss hasn't occurred for anyone, outside of the clear feedback that this is not a good solution.
This is absolutely not the case. There is a notebook now called "Penultimate" that contains very old versions of my data from the last time I synced - over a year and a half ago - some of which should not exist anymore, and many of which are missing because they are newer. I have scrolled through each and every one of these notes, and it is clear that all data not synced to Evernote has been deleted.
There is also a notebook with my old journal in it strangely called "Titanic." Not sure where that came from, but my notes aren't there, either.
I have scrolled through each and every note I have, and can confirm. The data loss is real.
Withdraw the update now. Fix it later. At the very least, warn people that data will be consolidated in the update description.

I'd like for us to fully investigate your case and others who are running into missing notes outside of my described scenario. For anyone running into a possible data loss issue, please submit a support ticket, and if possible, provide a list of steps that you took, and an activity log, so that we can more fully investigate.

There is another possible scenario could be at fault for anyone running into missing notes--this may be caused by multiple or different log ins, or the creation of a new account during the first launch experience. Cross checking both your Penultimate and Evernote logins and double checking for additional Penultimate accounts often leads to an additional account with the lost notes. Would also suggest using search in Evernote to find "notes from Penultimate" to see if they're fully synced over to Evernote (if that option was selected). Searching "SourceApplication:Penultimate" in the search box on iOS will pull in Penultimate files.

As a retired software developer, another scenario suggests itself to me. What if a Penultimate 5 user _had no Evernote account?_ Not ever. This hypothetical person loved Penultimate, used it extensively, but had no use for the Evernote service. He might even have _paid_ for the app before Evernote made it free. As a result, _none of his files had ever been synced to Evernote before the 6.0 update._ What would have happened to this person's data as 6.0 was installed?

crabbynat · November 21, 2014

Evernote- with regards to the amendments you are making to v6, can you please include (reintegrate) the ability to resize inserted pictures? I have not found a way to do this in the update, and I work in technical support for scientific equipment and use that feature A LOT when documenting activities on site.

Also, I swapped to the Jot Touch Pixelpoint a week before the upgrade, and it was perfect!!! I was thrilled with it and so happy I finally found something that worked perfectly for me. I was about 90% happy with the Jot Script, but the Touch put me at %110 satisfaction. Now it doesn't work as well with the new upgrade- the lines appear a bit jaggedy (for both of my styluses) and the sensing for it seems to be inconsistent and can place writing up to half a cm away from where's the point is touching my iPad screen.

Could you also bring back the different size choices for the eraser as well?

I also get the 'paste' option coming up a lot as I'm writing, and I don't know why... Sometimes due to my writing (lifting stylus in a printing style rather than handwriting cursive) it is selected and switches over to the cut/select tool which I then have to go back and select writing mode. It's just a little annoying, so would be nice to know if I'm doing something wrong or if others have found that too.

Thanks! Also, good work on the way you're dealing with the backlash, it says a lot about your appreciation of your consumers and understanding of the implications of brand loyalty (or lack thereof!). I'll stick with you while you work things out!

James C T · November 21, 2014

I'm afraid that since Evernote clearly have no intention of catering for the needs of their customers (i.e. nearly everyone wanted the old version back), I have already jumped ship to goodnotes, since I need an app like this so badly for work. Going for a week (and longer) with such an awful botch job just wasn't an option. You shouldn't be trying to make the best of a bad situation, you should be answering the needs of your customers

yaakovsladder · November 21, 2014

I have been using Penultimate for a couple of years and now all of my notebooks are in one notebook as long notes!!!! What am I supposed to do? I can't even discern which notebooks are which! This is horrible!

SJunto · November 21, 2014

So one last constructive attempt to lobby for reversion back to old structure (individual pages in individual notebooks). I really think your senior execs and CEO should be having this debate / discussion - it's at the core of what Penultimate is IMHO (which is not necessarily the same as what Evernote is...). And oh yeah - call it whatever you want - v 5, v 6.3, v 7...

Penultimate did something almost no apps or technologies ever get to do - it attracted a large user base that found it so amazing that they incorporated it deeply into their personal and professional lives - and I mean deeply. And then those users (me included...) went out and evangelized for it... Many use / used it every day - to be more productive, to learn more, to be more organized, etc. What an amazing feat!!! Helping people evolve and be better versions of themselves around content and information, much of which was their own work!!! Truly, truly remarkable.

There are I'm sure many reasons why, but high among them for me (and I would conjecture many others) is the fact that you created an intuitive, seamless, artisan styled, digitized version of a notebook / binder / canvas. And it can do so much more already. But in the end, the notebook design functions (separate pages, copying each, removing, inserting) is a core experience that has helped me immensely. I love the zoom, the tools, presentation, etc. - and I hope they all come back - but more than that the skeuomorphic notebook / binder / easel / white board design are the foundation. The success of a personal content input / storage / retrieval tool is so hard to do right - and you had so much of it right - please don't toss that away... I use Evernote as well (premium subscription, I'm a subscription junkie...) but not for the same purpose. And I wonder if your team and your execs truly get that - many of us use both, but not for the same purposes... PLEASE RECONSIDER AND TALK AMONGST YOURSELVES!!!

chris01 · November 22, 2014

I am a premium user, I have posted my comments on this and other blog and I find it amazing that the chiefs of this company are so adamant to cram v6 down our throats. I have never seen so many people of various backgrounds voicing their opinions against what Evernote did to Penultimate with v6. Overwhelming the feeling is that it was ruined. For Evernote not to provide both versions, to me means they have other motivations. Do they honesly think that people will use a product they don't like to use? IMHO I think there is a reluctance to offer v5 as it will mean failure for the people who sold the executives on this new version, how does that translate - heads will roll....someone has to take the fall. So bailing out this new version is what is in the cards until the chiefs listen to their customers. I have managed to reinstall V5.3 so for the time being I am happy...until I predict, the functionality of V5.3 with Evernote will be seriously hampered.

SJunto · November 22, 2014

Well now I must admit I'm bummed about all of this because I don't think anything is going to happen to change back to the foundational pages / notebooks format. Here's my thesis: The media is reporting Evernote just received a $20MM investment from Nikkei, which is also a content integration deal. Evernote has raised almost $300MM along the way, and really needs to start thinking about liquidity for its investors, likely via IPO, or acquisition by a strategic (though I'd bet on IPO). That's not a good or bad thing, it's just a fact of life for a VC backed company (particularly one with over 13 investors, many of whom started a while ago...). Regardless, in either case, what do they (the new owners / investors) want to see? A growing user and subscriber base... I simply can't imagine the # of Penultimate users is even close to the # of Evernote users / subs. And I can tell you I for one won't drop Evernote even if I move to another handwriting app. I like it too much and have too much time invested in using at for work / personal stuff. Are you gonna drop it?

So where will management allocate its resources ($ and time)? To an awesome, potentially winning handwriting app or to driving new Evernote users / subs and working hard on integrating the content deal it just signed with its new investor at a likely really high valuation? In an idealistic world, they would just revert back, shrink the Penultimate team and allocate resources elsewhere. If I were on the board, that'd be my vote - or to sell it - you might as well monetize it rather than futz along with noise from crazy evangelists while your design team scratches their head trying to understand how users actually used it. Anyway, I'm switching courses to finding a new app, as I'm now convinced Evernote is not likely to do the easy thing, and probably the better, less distracting thing...not that it wouldn't make sense to them, it's just not worth focusing their limited resources there.

But if they did!!! Wouldn't that be awesome - and email that said "We not only released too soon, we clearly misunderstood many of our users core use cases. We're sorry, we're going to back". Now THAT would be courageous!

koeselitz · November 24, 2014

For anyone running into data loss, please check to make sure that the way 6.0 is reorganizing your original Penultimate 5.3.1 notes is not the culprit here. We take every instance of data loss seriously, so I want to be able to verify that's what is happening when you move to 6.0.

Penultimate 5.3.1 notes should be consolidated to a notebook (shown as a circle) called "Penultimate"--and each notebook you had on 5.3.1 now exists as a single, scrolling note within the new Penultimate notebook. So if you had 5 notebooks with notes and drawings, you would have 5 corresponding notes with all of this information intact, that you would then two finger scroll up to see all of your data. I'd like to make sure that data loss hasn't occurred for anyone, outside of the clear feedback that this is not a good solution.
This is absolutely not the case. There is a notebook now called "Penultimate" that contains very old versions of my data from the last time I synced - over a year and a half ago - some of which should not exist anymore, and many of which are missing because they are newer. I have scrolled through each and every one of these notes, and it is clear that all data not synced to Evernote has been deleted.
There is also a notebook with my old journal in it strangely called "Titanic." Not sure where that came from, but my notes aren't there, either.
I have scrolled through each and every note I have, and can confirm. The data loss is real.
Withdraw the update now. Fix it later. At the very least, warn people that data will be consolidated in the update description.

I'd like for us to fully investigate your case and others who are running into missing notes outside of my described scenario. For anyone running into a possible data loss issue, please submit a support ticket, and if possible, provide a list of steps that you took, and an activity log, so that we can more fully investigate.

There is another possible scenario could be at fault for anyone running into missing notes--this may be caused by multiple or different log ins, or the creation of a new account during the first launch experience. Cross checking both your Penultimate and Evernote logins and double checking for additional Penultimate accounts often leads to an additional account with the lost notes. Would also suggest using search in Evernote to find "notes from Penultimate" to see if they're fully synced over to Evernote (if that option was selected). Searching "SourceApplication:Penultimate" in the search box on iOS will pull in Penultimate files.

.

Sorry, gbarry, but I have gone through these steps and recovered no data. I submitted a ticket and sent my logs in right after discovering the issue. No dice. I am not being asked to download and install something called iExplorer, which is quite difficult given that I don't own my own computer, but I'm looking for a way. At this point I know I'm not getting my notes back, so this is really just a donation of my free time to help your dev team. But I guess I would like the satisfaction of convincing you to believe me, anyway.

The suggestion that data might be in another Evernote account is rather disturbing in my case, since I have been logged out of Evernote within Penultimate for more than a year. Does Penultimate secretly sync back to Evernote even when you're not logged in or syncing is paused? If so, that is worrisome, since this is deceptive behavior on the part of the app.

I recognize that to you I seem to be a one in a million case of data loss - this is largely because it's hard to sort us out from the people who simply can't find their data. But I do database management for a living, and while there are plenty of us database techs who are dumb, I appreciated pretty quickly that this might just be my mistake in not looking close enough.

The fact remains: when I logged into Evernote and opened Penultimate for the first time after the update, everything I'd done for the past year and a half had been deleted, and all previously existing notes had been restored to their previous conditions with all newer changes lost. I'm kind of confused about how his happened, too, but it definitely happened.

While I understand that I've been a bit frankly about this, it was more than a little aggravating to read in the apology email that you simply don't believe any data loss has occurred. I guess you really can only go by what you see in front of you, though - and I don't imagine that many of the dev team or testers tend to work on Penultimate while logged out of Evernote.

sheridz · November 24, 2014

Hi, I still can't export or open my penultimate notes in other apps - i.e.. Good reader. How do I now email my notes?

Thanks

mgguess · November 24, 2014

You expect us to be grateful for this worthless update to the botched re-working of Penultimate? As of right now, all I know is an app that I depended on for work was re-introduced without warning, to useless, completely dysfunctional app. After this update I decided to keep my faith that Evernote would realize its mistake and quickly backtrack to the previous (functional) version. Now with the new update, the app doesn't even perform its most basic functionalities. I'm using the app on iOS 8 with an iPad Air and the thing crashes, loses my notes (I just spent an hour taking notes on something and had the app crash, only to lose everything I had written today).

I'm a premium customer, and I am very seriously considering calling off my dependence on Evernote. What are they going to decide to "update" next? What if I can't access my important documents in Evernote?

Did you even open this app on an iPad before releasing it? What kind of irresponsible people are working at this company?

You need to fix this, Evernote. The survival of your company (and the loyalty of your customers) depends on it......

ScottLougheed · November 24, 2014

Did you even open this app on an iPad before releasing it? What kind of irresponsible people are working at this company?

To be fair, every beta tester likely opened it and tested it, since it was distributed to beta testers several weeks before release. You could even apply to be a beta tester yourself, and they seem to let most people into the beta. Application Here:

Omnibus Beta Tester Beg

So you can at least be one more person in a position to voice their concerns a tiny bit earlier in the development process.

typhoid03 · November 24, 2014

You expect us to be grateful for this worthless update to the botched re-working of Penultimate? As of right now, all I know is an app that I depended on for work was re-introduced without warning, to useless, completely dysfunctional app. After this update I decided to keep my faith that Evernote would realize its mistake and quickly backtrack to the previous (functional) version. Now with the new update, the app doesn't even perform its most basic functionalities. I'm using the app on iOS 8 with an iPad Air and the thing crashes, loses my notes (I just spent an hour taking notes on something and had the app crash, only to lose everything I had written today).

I'm a premium customer, and I am very seriously considering calling off my dependence on Evernote. What are they going to decide to "update" next? What if I can't access my important documents in Evernote?

Did you even open this app on an iPad before releasing it? What kind of irresponsible people are working at this company?

You need to fix this, Evernote. The survival of your company (and the loyalty of your customers) depends on it......

I'm also still having experiencing repeated crashes, losing hours of work a day

KnRomig · November 24, 2014

Did you even open this app on an iPad before releasing it? What kind of irresponsible people are working at this company?

To be fair, every beta tester likely opened it and tested it, since it was distributed to beta testers several weeks before release. You could even apply to be a beta tester yourself, and they seem to let most people into the beta. Application Here:
Omnibus Beta Tester Beg

So you can at least be one more person in a position to voice their concerns a tiny bit earlier in the development process.

Having beta testers, and actually listening to the responses are two different things.

If EN was strictly looking for bugs (of which there are in abundance) or looking for actual use input (obviously not - or possibly the EN testers did not have the same use characteristics as the seeming majority - stemming from responses), these are two completely different objectives.

Regardless of beta testing, the shrill outcry here and on App Store indicates that EN flat got it wrong.

That EN is apparently unwilling to just provide (something it has and could provide at NO incremental cost) a product its users are clambering for, is telling as to what EN actually thinks of USER INPUT - beta or not.

Seriously, these decisions smack of pride/vanity rather than of useful product/tool development.

ScottLougheed · November 25, 2014

Did you even open this app on an iPad before releasing it? What kind of irresponsible people are working at this company?

To be fair, every beta tester likely opened it and tested it, since it was distributed to beta testers several weeks before release. You could even apply to be a beta tester yourself, and they seem to let most people into the beta. Application Here:
Omnibus Beta Tester Beg

So you can at least be one more person in a position to voice their concerns a tiny bit earlier in the development process.

Having beta testers, and actually listening to the responses are two different things.

Won't disagree with you there.

Penultimate 6 FAQ and How-To Info

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