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ios Evernote - Can We Get a Response?

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Better yet, just admit this was a bad idea from the very ground up and roll back to the old version, which was superior in every single way.

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they dont CARE that NO ONE seems to like this version. I have been up all night trying to figure out how to downgrade and no luck (its not backed up on my computer). So I have been downloading as many free writing apps as I could and they all have the same dumb features that penultimate has copied.

Bring back the old notebook feel. Bring back the drift feature. And if you are not going to do that, at least make the old version available to us.

I have deleted it and started using paper and pencil. May penultimate rest in peace as it will never be the same.

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Sorry, but I am reposting from the longer thread.  Thought I would add it here as well since it is appropos.

 

I just received this response from their support team. It proves they have not a single clue. The total lack of understanding is the proof I need to cancel my premium membership, which I have now done. Goodby evernote. I will never speak positive about you again for the way you destroyed all my carefully-written notesbooks without warning and showed not the slightest shade of actual customer support. How do I screenshot an entire app???? Just roll back to Penultimate 5, you morons.  By "how handwriting could be" you meant how to make your app more in line with the cheap, crappy apps that are already flooded on the market?  Bamboo so far shows promise, Inkflow Plus isn't bad, Noteability.  Testing these at the moment, and while they don't have OCR tech and they don't sync automatically to evernote, at least I have more comfort that someone won't come along and totally ***** up every work note I made without any warning since at least they'll be in pdf and backed up separately.

"I'm Joseph, and thank you so much for contacting me at Evernote customer support. I definitely want to help. Penultimate’s goal is to show how handwriting could be. And that means some big changes. You may read more on the release of Penultimate here: http://blog.evernote...-penultimate-6/

I would like to help with anything that doesn't work, so I would like to collect a bit more information. Could you let me know a bit more about the issue you are noticing with Zoom and Drift? Can you let me know the step take before noticing the issue?

A screenshot of the areas that are causing an issue can also help. To take a screenshot on an iOS device, press and hold the sleep/wake button and the home button at the same time. The screen will flash white and the screenshot will be saved to the Camera Roll in the Photos app.

If you'd like to submit feedback about any design improvements, I can definitely pass them along to the correct team! We always welcome feedback and suggestions, because that is the best way to improve our product. Let me know if I can help clarify anything a bit more, and I look forward to your response!"         

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Well, i deleted the app too.

 

Maybe i'll give it another try if they roll back to the prepatch version - the new 6.x version ist a huge step back and it is not userfriendly any more...

 

I dont know what has driven them to release this 6.x piece of S... - for sure it's the easiest way to get us to use something else instead of Penultimate (which i do now!)

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Like many other I just created an account to post here. I have been waiting prairie toy for some response or acknowledgement from Evernote that they are working on the issues identified. But it seems like they are just ignoring it. I replaced pen and paper with Penultimate a few months ago, and have been promoting it to co-workers ever since. The app is now unusable, and I have been following the discussion here, App Store comments and even Twitter waiting for some solution. After 652 reviews and a 1.5 star rating you would think there would be a response. I am very disappointed at the lack of communication. Now I am looking at paying $7.99 for Inkflow Plus, but I would pay much more to get Penultimate 5 back.

Evernote please fix this. Or if you are not, tell us so we can all move on.

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This kind of makes me wonder if Evernote's goal is to do away with Penultimate so that they have less applications to support.  This would be one way to drive away the users.  Just saying...

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This kind of makes me wonder if Evernote's goal is to do away with Penultimate so that they have less applications to support.  This would be one way to drive away the users.  Just saying...

 

I doubt they would rewrite the app and make a big deal of it in public so that they can finally get rid of those pesky customers who keep using it! I'm sure something is being done, but it may not be the something you want. I recommend clearly stating which aspects of the app are a problem and why (for your particular workflow). That's probably the best way to convince the developers that a change is needed. 

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I do not like it either. From a one more unhappy evernote follower-user from León, Gto; Mexico. I at least would expect a response from the evernote team.

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Am I the only one who simply can't write in it?  I literally can not use it.  8 out of 10 swipes of my stylus aren't registering.  When they do, it's hideous.  I should screenshot notes take before the update next to notes taken after.  It's like someone repeatedly smashed my hand into a car door

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Another vote demanding a response, a plan from Evernote!

Guys! You are loosing credibility by not communicating. You must react to 190 ALL negative comments in 40 hours, many of us first ever posting customers, reacting to the Penultimate 6 release. Your rating in the App Store is dropping like a stone. No response is not Evernote like.

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Another vote demanding a response, a plan from Evernote!

Guys! You are loosing credibility by not communicating. You must react to 190 ALL negative comments in 40 hours, many of us first ever posting customers, reacting to the Penultimate 6 release. Your rating in the App Store is dropping like a stone. No response is not Evernote like.

 

Hi. You're kidding, right? At least, I thought so at first, but I am not sure. Are you suggesting that they spend the time to reply to every single negative comment instead of doing their jobs and improving the app? This is a user forum, so developers don't post very much, though they read, and in several years here, I don't think I have ever seen anyone address every complaint about an app. 

 

My recommendation, as mentioned above, is to clearly state what your issues are with the app and why the current app is a problem. Designers can work with that, and they can respond. As you said, there are a lot of negative comments out there about the app -- hopefully the designers are listening. But, you also don't want your specific concerns drowned out by the rest because you haven't been clear about the problems.

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Another vote demanding a response, a plan from Evernote!

Guys! You are loosing credibility by not communicating. You must react to 190 ALL negative comments in 40 hours, many of us first ever posting customers, reacting to the Penultimate 6 release. Your rating in the App Store is dropping like a stone. No response is not Evernote like.

 

Hi. You're kidding, right? At least, I thought so at first, but I am not sure. Are you suggesting that they spend the time to reply to every single negative comment instead of doing their jobs and improving the app? This is a user forum, so developers don't post very much, though they read, and in several years here, I don't think I have ever seen anyone address every complaint about an app. 

 

My recommendation, as mentioned above, is to clearly state what your issues are with the app and why the current app is a problem. Designers can work with that, and they can respond. As you said, there are a lot of negative comments out there about the app -- hopefully the designers are listening. But, you also don't want your specific concerns drowned out by the rest because you haven't been clear about the problems.

 

 

I see nothing wrong with replying every single negative comment, especially after they cancelled any support for free users. In fact, it's the only way to justify this highly questionable move.

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A rollback wouldn't help me at all. Evernote already deleted all my notebooks with this update because I chose to take the option not to sign in to Evernote inside Penultimate. I guess Evernote thought that people like me are worthless idiots who don't deserve to have our data protected. There's nothing anybody can do now, though. No update will bring back deleted data.

Really, this was a hideous thing to do to people.

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Never seen anything quite like this.

The most obnoxious piece of ***** move ever from a company.

Just roll back to the old app and apologise to not lose every customer.

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Sine they won't respond to our postings, maybe they will respond to paper. Please actually mail them a letter.

Phil Libin, CEO

Evernote Corporation

305 Walnut Street

Redwood City, CA 94063

USA

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Sine they won't respond to our postings, maybe they will respond to paper. Please actually mail them a letter.

Phil Libin, CEO

Evernote Corporation

305 Walnut Street

Redwood City, CA 94063

USA

Highly doubtful. Personally, I wouldn't waste my 45 cents. (Or whatever it is these days.)

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Evernote staff responded to user concerns within one day of the release. See the posts beginning with this one:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/74824-penultimate-60-released/?p=320403

 

…and then immediately stopped when it became clear that they had a severe issue at their hands — long before most people probably had updated and started to pour in. Not even within those scattered few comments was there any suggestion that they were going to address the issues beyond some vague (and in every way insufficient) “doing something for next version”.

 

So a handful of posts over a lunch break just after release doesn't quite qualify as a response to the mountain of user concerns that happened over the last four days.

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Consistently, their responses do not address the actual structural demolition to their own app. They are trying to resolve why a single person is having a problem connecting a particular stylus. The response is so far below inadequate that it hurts to describe. Still looking for votes on best new app methods to replace evernote and penultimate. Lots of options I'm testing through, but need something for work tomorrow morning and not happy with any solution yet.

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Evernote staff responded to user concerns within one day of the release. See the posts beginning with this one:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/74824-penultimate-60-released/?p=320403

 

…and then immediately stopped when it became clear that they had a severe issue at their hands — long before most people probably had updated and started to pour in. Not even within those scattered few comments was there any suggestion that they were going to address the issues beyond some vague (and in every way insufficient) “doing something for next version”.

 

So a handful of posts over a lunch break just after release doesn't quite qualify as a response to the mountain of user concerns that happened over the last four days.

 

 

It was the weekend. I don't think they work on weekends. I'm not sure. At any rate, they don't post as much on weekends. Maybe this week we will hear more.

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Evernote staff responded to user concerns within one day of the release. See the posts beginning with this one:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/74824-penultimate-60-released/?p=320403

 

…and then immediately stopped when it became clear that they had a severe issue at their hands — long before most people probably had updated and started to pour in. Not even within those scattered few comments was there any suggestion that they were going to address the issues beyond some vague (and in every way insufficient) “doing something for next version”.

 

So a handful of posts over a lunch break just after release doesn't quite qualify as a response to the mountain of user concerns that happened over the last four days.

 

 

It was the weekend. I don't think they work on weekends. I'm not sure. At any rate, they don't post as much on weekends. Maybe this week we will hear more.

 

 

The weekend started on Saturday; the feedback started trickling in on Thursday and became a flood on Friday. And really, the first reports of data loss and loss of functionality on Thursday should have put them on alert for the week-end so that they could at least give of a peep of acknowledgement of what people were saying.

 

They had ample time to give more thorough replies and more than enough time to arrange for a watch (and preliminary replies). They may not work 24/7, but they run an 24/7 service and need to be able to at least show sign of life — it's a good idea after any big rewrite and release, and an especially good idea given the early indications that something had gone horribly wrong…

 

What's not a good idea is to give some ineffectual and rather evasive replies to a few hours after release and then let the issue simmer for a day and a half before taking the week-end off.

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The fact that I just received an email saying and I quote "penultimate 6.0 + jot script. Upgraded to work better together." Is so idiotic it's funny

And no evernote, I'm not feeling like handing you any money right now for a fancy stylus or a $70 business card case..

FIX YOUR APP!!

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Dear BNF: I don't have high hopes, either. A political activist I know once told me that emails and calls just don't influence people like a big sack of mail. (ps, it's 49 cents these days).

Dear Scott: while I'm heartened that Evernote staff are as committed as ever, a fail this major really does warrant an Executive response. And fast...

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Dear BNF: I don't have high hopes, either. A political activist I know once told me that emails and calls just don't influence people like a big sack of mail. (ps, it's 49 cents these days).

Dear Scott: while I'm heartened that Evernote staff are as committed as ever, a fail this major really does warrant an Executive response. And fast...

Libin seems to know what's going on:https://twitter.com/plibin/status/534378189934440449

While it is impossible to know how Evernote Execs and staff will actually respond in practice, there's no doubt that the outcry has made it to the top.

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Tone deaf.  Or arrogant.  Likely both.

When I complained re: the entire product (Notebooks, Zoom, page scroll and train wreck bad "writing") I received this response:

 

"Since you're experiencing problems with the app's performance, rather than just with the UI changes,"

[emphasis added]

 

Note the "just the UI changes."

 

Evernote is either in complete denial or is set on forcing this change no mater what.

 

Either way, for a CLOUD based company to destroy the trust of its customers is insane.

In a cloud based industry/workflow, trust is ALL you have.  That IS the value.  There are many, many alternatives.

 

OneNote

Outline+

Box Notes

 

GoodNotes

Bambo Paper

NoteShelf

Noteability

Memo

 

Pen and paper and scanner

etc. etc.

 

The (now lost to me) leverage Evernote had was the trust I (now regrettably) placed in the company.

There likely are several business school papers possible from this debacle. 

"How to Piss Away a User Base"

 

The continued silence (and a tweet about bugs is silence - how many pieces of software are rolled out bug free??) is evidence that this firm has completely lost its way with regard to users of this product.

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Tone deaf.  Or arrogant.  Likely both.

When I complained re: the entire product (Notebooks, Zoom, page scroll and train wreck bad "writing") I received this response:

 

"Since you're experiencing problems with the app's performance, rather than just with the UI changes,"

[emphasis added]

 

Note the "just the UI changes."

 

Evernote is either in complete denial or is set on forcing this change no mater what.

 

Either way, for a CLOUD based company to destroy the trust of its customers is insane.

In a cloud based industry/workflow, trust is ALL you have.  That IS the value.  There are many, many alternatives.

 

OneNote

Outline+

Box Notes

 

GoodNotes

Bambo Paper

NoteShelf

Noteability

Memo

 

Pen and paper and scanner

etc. etc.

 

The (now lost to me) leverage Evernote had was the trust I (now regrettably) placed in the company.

There likely are several business school papers possible from this debacle. 

"How to Piss Away a User Base"

 

The continued silence (and a tweet about bugs is silence - have many pieces of software are rolled out bug free??) is evidence that this firm has completely lost its way with regard to users of this product.

This. I'd like it twice if I could.

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This app is now useless to me.. Enjoy my couple of dollars as I mention to everyone I know not to buy this ***** app.

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The corporate silence has spoken volumes to me. Even if they make some improvements now would you really trust them with your data and understanding of the needs of the people who liked Penultimate features again? Fool me once . . . .

 

Switching to "Notability". Automatically backs up a pdf to my Dropbox. Also made a beautiful drawing in "Sketches" yesterday and cut/pasted it into a Notability note.  Some of my product may actually improve thanks to this loss.  Will probably set up folders and move my whole Evernote trove of information over. I was synced and did not lose any data but a company that is so incompetent or insensitive to the loss of it's customers data is not where I want to place my trust.   

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Just received a brief email response from Phil Libin. It's a start:
 

It's my fault. We're focused on fixing the problems first. Once the app is in decent shape, we'll figure out the important process and responsibility questions you raise.
 
Thanks for your letter and sorry for the short response.


Here's the note I had sent:
 

Dear Mr. Libin,
It has been nearly a week since the Penultimate update interrupted your users' workflows and in some cases destroyed their data. The response to date -- first silence, then framing our complaints as "feedback" to be considered in future bug-fix releases -- has been worse than amateurish, and wholly inadequate.

Who pushed for the release of what was clearly an unfinished and deeply flawed product, and why? When will you and the management team take responsibility for this debacle and issue a formal apology?

Most importantly, what concrete steps will you take to regain your users' trust? You must understand that simply issuing another update, while obviously necessary, is no longer even close to sufficient. How can we expect you to not repeat this breach of trust when you have not even acknowledged that it occurred?

I will continue to raise these questions until you provide satisfactory answers to your user base.

Sincerely,
gbcb

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Here is the response from Evernote:

 

http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2014/11/19/note-penultimate/

 

We take a big approach to redesigns. We think that as devices become more powerful and operating systems change, our apps should follow suit. A week ago, we released an update to Penultimate, our handwriting app for iPad, that was meant to demonstrate our vision of where digital handwriting is headed. We did not do a good job.

Simply put, we released this version too soon. Our big ideas were overshadowed by usability issues and incomplete features. The complaints from the community have been loud and justified.

Here’s what we’re doing about it.

This week, we are submitting an update to Apple with the following improvements:

  • The drift feature returns with scroll speeds that match your writing speed
  • The zoom box will be resizable
  • Introduction of a sliding tray within a note to let you jump to specific sections easily
  • The ability to insert a page above or below
  • The ability to clear and delete a full page
  • Adding page breaks and page numbers
  • Note titles will be turned on by default (you can turn them on manually now)

We have heard complaints of missing notes and notebook. As far we know, there is no data loss associated with this update. In this new layout, each Penultimate notebook became its own long note. Scrolling through the note displays the notebook’s content. The sliding drawer that we’re introducing will let you easily navigate to any part of a note. Learn more about notes in Penultimate in ourknowledge base.

We’re continuing to apply your feedback and enhance the experience. In the coming weeks and months you’ll see improved functionality and new features that will make Penultimate better than it’s ever been.

As a company grows, a common external perception is that it loses touch with the needs of its users, and events like this only further that feeling. This is fundamentally not true at Evernote. We’re sorry. We screwed up. We’ve heard your feedback, and are going to make things better. Once we’ve solved the immediate issues, we’ll change our process to make sure big new releases go better in the future. We do believe that we’re taking Penultimate in the right direction, but this was not the way to unveil our vision.

Redesigns are important, especially for an app like Penultimate. As technology races ahead, activities like handwriting are in danger of becoming nostalgic. We think Penultimate can play a significant role in keeping handwriting a vital part of our lives.

Thanks for your feedback. Keep it coming.

Jamie Hull
Vice President, Mobile Products

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I do like seeing that they have some idea that they REALLY screwed up, I am a little worried they haven't addressed the concerns with landscape and presentation mode that I use every day as a teacher.  My lessons will be forever lost if they don't make those fixes.

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Yes, a good first step. Let's hope the update actually goes some way toward restoring lost functionality. As for the "no data loss" claim... I'm skeptical, but again maybe this update will help

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First, I appreciate the apology.

Second--the difference between Penultimate and, say Facebook, is that with something like facebook, it's not a business app--any 'radical' change is a nuisance until the user base gets accustomed to it.

With Penultimate, there are real live business processes dependent on how it works. It's more like a B2B app or a back office app. That said, when you want to do something radically different (which is important to do) you 1) raise the new technology alongside the old, 2) get feedback and adjust 3) when the value has been demonstrated--or at least you can show a minimal and temporary (emphasis 'temporary') loss of productivity, then and only then do you 3) manage the sunset of the old technology.

This one was dumped on us. I've been scrambling for 3 days to find a replacement to Penultimate. There are alternatives, but they are materially different and I'd prefer not to deal with them (I've tried at least 4). So, the fixes they describe will be welcomed with open arms and smiling faces--maybe....

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Thank you for the effort @gbcb

 

 

You're welcome. I've probably come across as rather angry on these pages in recent days (because I have been...). I thought his response and now Jamie Hull's blog post show that they actually understand and are trying to fix this mistake. I really hope they follow up!

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Jamie's response is very well stated. Unfortunately, I fear that many of us will find and build alternative workflows in haste and will have already overcome the learning curves associated with those new workflows by the time Penultimate is to the level it was with a more robust change management strategy in place for the future (that's one thing I've always given Apple–phenominal change management in the OS X and iOS releases). Also, given what I've seen in the forum and my personal experience, the loss will primarily be in those users who didn't have Evernote accounts and just liked Penultimate, because this seems to be a link for many of the lost data folks...no sync to Evernote, no visible notebooks on update or after creating a new Evernote account.

I'm not trying to be a naysayer and I wish Evernote all the best, but I can at least say that for me...I've moved on (except I still don't have access to my old notebooks) with a new workflow, leveraging apps I rarely used in the past (Notes, Pages, etc.), better integration across devices, and updated my hardware.

It took a moment to get a response, but it does remind me a little of the antennagate thing with the iPhone 4 and Steve Jobs holding a press conference during which he said something like: It's not like we've been sitting around doing nothing for a year on this...it's been 3 weeks. Of course, that was one problem reported by a "small number of users" on a product consumers were otherwise happy with; so, might be apples and oranges.

Well done Evernote on developing and implementing, what appears to be, a coordinated response across multiple spokepeople and media in a relatively short period of time. Sounds like there are a lot of lessons learned on this one.

Cheers

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Thank you Jamie, I appreciate your wanting to redesign Penultimate, I am incredibly sad that the .ipa is reduced from approx 45mb  to version 6 at approx 18mb. So releasing this has taken away huge amounts of functionality. There is no way in gods earth that Penultimate was bloated therefore it seems the redesign was a deliberate reduction of usability. Sadly NO thought or information was given to users to explain the LOSS of functionality that evernote KNEW was going to happen. Instead all information re the upgrade implied better and superior functionality. You guys patently knew this to be untrue.

Please restore the functionality whether in the old format or the new one

You do not seem to have realised what a satisfied and loyal user base you had - who would never have looked elsewhere and would have continued to help build goodwill and clientele for you!! 

I can no longer make notebooks and change paper style i.e.. lined and unlined within a notebook as I create pages

Massive issue is scrolling - please put back page turns

 

In the new version my stylus writes on the line ABOVE where it rests on the page - making it impossible to write properly

Likewise the rubber is overly wide and unwieldy to say the least

 

I am unable to make new books and title them properly - I am wondering whether this requires and evernote account linked to penultimate for v 6

 

Now unable to save books in iTunes 

I upgraded to v 6 - backed up iPad air, attempted to restore previous v5 and due to reformat cannot link them back to v5 penultimate.

 

There are so many ways this does not work for me now - I lost usability for over 75 notebooks, many with well over 100 pages of notes each and representing 3 years worth of work - your app was critical to me being paperless

I use the tray to select a page and scrolling leaves marks- now must clean marks due to line difference and width of rubber lose data - now try to reenter - Tell me how this is user friendly Please page turning is better 

 

I am really hoping you restore the functionality that was there - no users would ever leave, only ask for increased functionality by suggestion.

 

I am hoping you fix this app so I do not have to change away - though am already having to consider options in the short term

Very frustrating and scary when you put your trust in something and an ill considered change like this leaves a tarnished mark in my mind - I do not give my trust easily.

 

I really want to support your endeavours - make changes that help me and others to operate this app and we can stay

Really hoping you listen to this - a healthy business never loses its brand by creating quality product - you certainly had it and with work can still have this

 

My smile may not be there and my head may hang, however my hope is still very much alive

Thanks in advance for listening

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