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I see in the news today (Nov 4, 2014) Evernote Premium price may change

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Any projections on how much it’ll change for users in the USA? I ass-u-me we’d get a notice before auto-renewal along with the option of opting out of any price increase…

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What news? Maybe you should post a link to what you read.

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What news? Maybe you should post a link to what you read.

 

From Metrodon:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/nov/04/evernote-premium-price-phil-libin

 

It also confirms that EN has changed focus from being "my" external brain to being a business tool.  Something that has been very clear in the past several months, but nice to (FINALLY) get confirmation from Evernote.  Unfortunate for those of us who signed up for the "MY" external brain thing.  I don't mind the price increase.  I'm sure it's justified.  But I really do mind the change of the focus of the app, especially with no formal warning.   We just had to read the writing on the wall & go from there. 

 

"Libin said that Evernote has rethought the core of its business, drilling down on work and businesses, rather than consumer note-taking."

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Yup, I wonder how many business people need links to Tech Crunch articles in their business notes  :D ?

 

I'm a huge Evernote fan, love the app, use it dozens of times every day. It's never felt more rudderless. Fingers crossed they figure it out, I'm lazy and I don't want to have to move.

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"It's never felt more rudderless"

 

That is a perfect description!

 

I felt something was seriously wrong when Libin started preaching his 100-year dream.

I've seen other companies lose their sense of direction and then suddenly do a 180 flip.

It often happens when a company is in the middle of a take-over by another corporation with a different vision.

 

search 48SW37

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I'm not sure this has to do with a take-over (and I have no inside information here), I think it's more to do with monetisation.

 

They have built a brilliant product that is used by over a 100 million people. People really love it, but whether enough people love it enough to pay for it and to pay enough for it is another question.

 

So, despite all the comments early on about their backgrounds in corporate security and not wanting to go back there, I think they have realised that business is where the money is. 

 

Pivot...

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Metrodon, 

I think you are correct. It looks like my "Jump the Shark" prediction is playing out.

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/14830-evernote-jumps-the-shark/

 

 
To: Evernote CEO - Phil Libin
Phil, I also marked up my calendar.
 
Phil Libin's comment - 4 years ago
 
Phil Libin's comment - today
 
Grrrr.
 
search 48SW37
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I'm a huge Evernote fan, love the app, use it dozens of times every day. It's never felt more rudderless. Fingers crossed they figure it out, I'm lazy and I don't want to have to move.

I've claimed multiple times on this board that EN is the app I've used the most...ever.  I mean, ever.  And I've been using computers for several decades.  Seeing the writing on the wall, I started migrating away in July (to Onenote).  I'd also claimed several times on this board that I did not see Onenote as competition to Evernote, even though there was some overlap.  I've used ON longer than Evernote, but IMO/IME Onenote was better suited to brainstorming or big project notes.  Evernote was MY external brain for many things that ON is overkill for.  Although I'm adapting, Onenote is not even a close second to the Evernote I signed up for in 2008 and loved for many years.  But as they say...all good things must come to an end.  (sniff)

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Yup, I wonder how many business people need links to Tech Crunch articles in their business notes  :D ?

 

I'm a huge Evernote fan, love the app, use it dozens of times every day. It's never felt more rudderless. Fingers crossed they figure it out, I'm lazy and I don't want to have to move.

 

I wonder how many businesses/business people (reminds me of "Romy & Michelle's High School Reunion" ("business women's lunch")) will put up with not knowing ETAs or roadmaps/priority lists. 

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JB, you need to give me the lottery numbers for this weekend please.

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Thanks for the link, BnF & Metrodon.

 

Right now, Evernote is as useful to me as it ever was, if not more so. My personal use case is a lot like my work use case. I'm not doing wine label collecting or anything like that. Sure, they're focusing more on collaboration, but basic features (collection, clipping, organization, search) need to be there, otherwise what are you collaborating with? It's not clear what's going to be lost, at least in my case.

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Thanks for the link, BnF & Metrodon.

 

Right now, Evernote is as useful to me as it ever was, if not more so. My personal use case is a lot like my work use case. I'm not doing wine label collecting or anything like that. Sure, they're focusing more on collaboration, but basic features (collection, clipping, organization, search) need to be there, otherwise what are you collaborating with? It's not clear what's going to be lost, at least in my case.

 

I have discussed this before but...

 

For me, Evernote has become useless because of the scaling issue.  I cannot use my main account on the Windows desktop nor the iOS client due to the number of notes (over 64,000) or the size of the database (over 37 gigs) or both.  SO...about two years ago, I created my "duet" account & would share a few notebooks between the two accounts.  However, about six months ago, the sharing got effed up...(discussed that on the board & supplied ticket numbers - "ghost notes" would remain & I'd have to do the "rebuild my local database thing."  Then they fixed it...then it broke again.)  The cherry on top was when I realized the web client (the only client I can use my main account on) doesn't search correctly.  (Also discussed on the board & supplied the ticket number.)

 

Sure, I can still take/create notes.  But if I can't use the app to RETRIEVE them, then it's not really helpful. 

 

Oddly enough, unless EN does a major overhaul, these are issues that will persist with a focus on business. 

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I have discussed this before but...

 

For me, Evernote has become useless because of the scaling issue.  I cannot use my main account on the Windows desktop nor the iOS client due to the number of notes (over 64,000) or the size of the database (over 37 gigs) or both.

 

<snip>

 

Oddly enough, unless EN does a major overhaul, these are issues that will persist with a focus on business. 

Sure, I understand all of that, but scaling is not an issue for me, as yet, anyways -- I'm nowhere near your numbers in terms of note count or database size. It's in terms of functionality that I am concerned with at the moment (though the scalability thing is lurking back there, because you're right: they will need to make things more robust if their focus is on business use). But modulo scalability, I'm not seeing a problem in my case, yet.

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(Thank you, BurgersNFries, for posting the Guardian link. Yep, that's where I saw it—Flipboarded…but I wasn't sure whether this was one of those forums in which posting links is allowed. I always try to be on best behavior.)

I agree with comments here perceiving EN's increasing monetization. It's a sad thing for me to see. I bought my Premium subscription originally, not because I needed what it offered, but rather, to show my support for a favored product. Little did I know. When the "Evernote Lifestyle" (Marketplace) reared its ugly head, I began to get suspicious. In my mind, EN is losing touch with its roots.

Me? I stumbled upon EN when Google killed its Notebooks app. I wanted, simply, a place to take and sync notes. Now EN has become an "ecosystem". Matter of taste—I certainly don't fault or intend to offend those who enjoy an "ecosystem". But when I need to get an add-on like QuickEver for a quick-start note-taker, somehow, I miss "the old days".

I question my Premium investment, and especially, a price bump.

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Scalability - I struggled with Evernote scalability problems for several months when I reached 30,000 notes.

 

I hoped that Evernote's move to the corporate world would quickly address this issue. 

 

Different levels of Evernote Support suggested a variety of possible solutions. When the "Not Responding" problem got really serious, they suggest that I purchase a 2nd Premium account and split the notes into two accounts. I tried their suggestion for a while, but more problems developed, so I finally gave up. I am now removing PDF files from Evernote and using other services for my important information -  Google Keep for tasks and OneNote for archiving data.

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Sure, I can still take/create notes.  But if I can't use the app to RETRIEVE them, then it's not really helpful. 

 

Oddly enough, unless EN does a major overhaul, these are issues that will persist with a focus on business. 

 

BnF, Amen.  Issues in all likelihood that will accelerate let alone persist in a group setting.

 

Looking for a silver lining, are the issues more likely to be addressed with a paying master?  

 

Though I do think I still have some runway before I'm running a stand alone copy on my PC doing what I need to do, minus synchronization.  Coining a phrase, FLAM (Full Local Access Method), or maybe ENFLAME, (EverNote Full Local Access Method Extraordinaire).   :)

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That line by PL is a heavy blow for people like me who hopes EN will improve its note-taking experience further.

They still have a lot of things to do in this area, but it sounds like they think personal note-taking has been perfected.

At this time, I believe most people use EN largely because the competitors in the note-taking area are inferior to EN. But the situation could change.

 

I would rather pay for a product that is the top of an area than one having a bunch of mediocre features across many areas.

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 When the "Evernote Lifestyle" (Marketplace) reared its ugly head, I began to get suspicious. In my mind, EN is losing touch with its roots.

 

 

Yes it's interesting - that is the point that the alarm bells starting ringing with me - you can see a shift in the tone of the external communications - the language has shifted from being about a very clear product/business model to an increasingly value "don't think, feel the love" level of discourse. 

 

I need to think about what my options are - simply because although Evernote's new business model makes sense for them, it makes sense for to me to try and migrate to something else before the product rot gets too bad.

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That line by PL is a heavy blow for people like me who hopes EN will improve its note-taking experience further.

They still have a lot of things to do in this area, but it sounds like they think personal note-taking has been perfected.

At this time, I believe most people use EN largely because the competitors in the note-taking area are inferior to EN. But the situation could change.

 

I would rather pay for a product that is the top of an area than one having a bunch of mediocre features across many areas.

But they're claiming that the editing experience *will* improve, at least in this presentation: https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/73509-me-vs-market/?p=317299. It may be in response to an question later on in the video, I  don't recall, exactly where the comment about the "common editor" is. That editor is already rolled out on the Mac, but I'm not a Mac user, you'll need to judge for yourself. That being said, I've never had any sense that they wanted to be a top-of-the-line note taking application, though. Functional, yes, but note taking is not really what they're about, even though it's a part of the Evernote experience.

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That being said, I've never had any sense that they wanted to be a top-of-the-line note taking application, though. Functional, yes, but note taking is not really what they're about, even though it's a part of the Evernote experience.

 

 

"Note" should not be narrowly defined as plain-text typing note, but an extended concept of various sorts of information that can be input, collected, stored and researched. I believe the most glaring slogan from Evernote is "to become one's second brain", which emphases EN's role as a reliable information manager. The "note-taking experience" could refer to any experience associating with information processing.

 

For example,  EN's web clipper is the best in the market, bar none. It's a part of EN's note-taking experience. EN make PDF annotation as one of the premium features. Annotation helps information research, which is also in the category of note-taking. But the new work-chat is quite off the target. It is certainly a sharing option but more like a pure collaboration tool. Context is information relevant, but according to my experience in research, people tend to research information more from the source based on their preference, not general recommendation. To make an example of comparison with "basic" feature, auto-generating TOC of a note is far more helpful for me. i am sure many EN users have wish list of such "basic" note-taking features. It is evident that there are still a wide range of details out there in normal note-taking workflow worth refining. 

 

The improvement on basic aspect of note-taking may not serve as a premium selling point directly (it is impossible that EN make a better editor exclusively for premium members), but the enhancement would probably encourage people to use EN more in daily life, which in turn leads to more frequent monthly quota hitting. The attraction of premium membership is still there.

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That being said, I've never had any sense that they wanted to be a top-of-the-line note taking application, though. Functional, yes, but note taking is not really what they're about, even though it's a part of the Evernote experience.

 

 

"Note" should not be narrowly defined as plain-text typing note, but an extended concept of various sorts of information that can be input, collected, stored and researched. <snip>

OK, fair enough. I would define note-taking more narrowly, but I certainly use Evernote as an information gathering and organizational tool. And it's pretty good and useful at that.

 

But the larger point here is that Evernote is apparently at a "what now?" moment, which you see expressed in the video: hey, we have this cool tool, and it's pretty good for storing and finding stuff, and you can spend all of our time improving those capabilities to the nth degree (and remember, once you get the easy stuff down, it takes increasingly more effort to push towards perfection), or we could stop and look at what we have in the larger context of "how do we take this chunk of knowledge and make it more accessible to the folks that I do meaningful work with"? And I think they're grappling with that, and what's kind of interesting to watch (for me anyways, as a software developer myself) is that it seems that they don't quite have all of the details mapped out yet, or the destination even, but they're still willing to push off in a direction that feels right, trusting their abilities to make something good, despite the risk that they may fail.

 

ANyways, yeah, Work chat/collaboration actually does seem to be a natural next step, in my mind, even though it's probably not so important to my own use case, at least at present. That plus advances in the information gathering side of things: rather than me directing Evernote to pull in this or that piece of information, why can't Evernote figure out what information in the wide world I'd be interested in, and capture it for me, or at least present it to me to decide it's relevant to me or not? And then when I have all of this stuff, and my workmates have their stuff, how do we structure that so that we can work on our common goals? Sure, we can build a wiki, but I think that Evernote has something more fluid in mind, and something that you don't need to build/organize yourself, but have Evernote pull out and present the information to you.

 

Does this mean that what we have in Evernote now is going away? Not necessarily, at least I hope not.

 

Anyways, that's my take on what Evernote seem to be going after. I said before that they aim high, and I'd add that they probably believe that when you strive to do interesting things, your best work will result, hopefully one that you can make a living on. Will it fly? Watch and see...

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Great conversation. There's plenty of points I want to jump into, but for right now I'd like to clarify Jeff's note concerning common editor. The common editor is meant to solve formatting problems when notes are passed often between all the different clients, and we have a team tied to making this happen across all clients. Mac has it, yes, but I expect you won't see much of a difference until you begin to sync notes across all platforms that eventually have the common editor baked in.

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The common editor is meant to solve formatting problems when notes are passed often between all the different clients, and we have a team tied to making this happen across all clients.

 

This is the first time I have seen you guys talk about making sure a feature works the same across platforms.  Until now it appeared that every EN client was independently developed with little control/coordination across clients.

 

This is great news!  I hope you continue to do more of this.   :)

 

There are many users who use both EN Mac and EN Win on a regular basis between work and home.  There are also families and companies that have both platforms in use.  It is a HUGE benefit to have things work the same way in both clients.

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Great conversation. There's plenty of points I want to jump into, but for right now I'd like to clarify Jeff's note concerning common editor. The common editor is meant to solve formatting problems when notes are passed often between all the different clients, and we have a team tied to making this happen across all clients. Mac has it, yes, but I expect you won't see much of a difference until you begin to sync notes across all platforms that eventually have the common editor baked in.

 

Does this mean that my annotations (with Skitch tools) will stop shifting and changing across platforms too? Also of significance: I discovered that when sharing and collaborating on documents via Work Chat - annotations disappear and behave erratically across different platforms. The thing about collaborating (and I imagine annotations are kind of important here) is that you are most likely going to be editing something created on a different platform. Will the common editor fix this? 

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I too am a VERY long-time user of Evernote. I started with version 1 release 1 Point 1 or whatever.  Basically, as soon as it became available. I could see that this was going to be a VERY useful tool. And I stumped up for Premium, 2 accounts (self and Mrs Self), basically to shore up support that the company would "make it" and not fall by the wayside due to everyone using the freebie and nobody paying. And I didn't want advertising.

 

Like BnF, I use it for my 2nd brain - I store anything and everything, from patient information brochures to web-clippings (thousands of 'em), from PDFs to graphics, from scanned documents to receipts, etc etc, as I'm sure most of you all do too.  Mrs Self uses it for recipes, receipts, instruction manuals, etc etc.

 

But this new focus on business tools, should really be a separate product. I have absolutely ZERO use for Work Chat (who the hell wants another one, on top of IM, iMessage, SMS texts, Facebook Messenger, etc etc etc?) and I have less than zero use for Context. Why the hell would I want Evernote to analyse MY notes and come up with something I didn't ask for?

 

And they have relegated "Share Note via Email" away from the "Share" button - it's now buried two deep in a menu, and they're deprecating it - usually means getting rid of the function. Very VERY BAD MOVE, Evernote team...!

 

They took away our configurable toolbar some time ago (yeah, yeah, I know - but let me harp on it one more time) so that we HAVE to use whatever THEY dictate goes on the toolbar - which is largely empty. There is no way I can put "Email Note" button on there, for example.  Or even such a commonly used one as "Print Note". Nope - it's their way or the highway.

 

The problem seems to be that they're trying to make the one version of Evernote into all things for all people - and as a result they're going to make it not many things for a few people. Direction lost. Should be at least two separate apps - Evernote Private, and Evernote Business, for example.

 

As far as monetisation goes, they should perhaps put more deterrents in the free version (no OCR, few more ads, limit number of notes that sync, whatever), to encourage a much higher proportion of users to go premium - and of course, keep the premium version at a reasonable price to help that encouragement.

 

Libin is off in his own little fairy world, I think. He is not listening. He sees himself as some sort of messiah. And he is in grave danger of the company doing a swift dive into the never-never by his approach, rather than building on success and then just polishing that success to make everything work as smoothly and quickly as possible.

 

Don't need or want Work Chat.  Don't need or want Context.  DO need and want configurable toolbar.  DO need and want Email Note one-button functionality....  Are you listening Phil???

 

End of rant - for now :ph34r:

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If you're a NAS user and don't really trust 3rd party companies with your data in "the cloud", you'll soon be able to create and save your own notes. Synology for one - which I use - have recently rolled out a notes application. V1 is not amazing but it will get better as all of Synology apps have over time. For the last week I've been unable to sync Evernote from desktop to EN server and back to other desktop, the notes don't tally right now, and the "conflicting" folder no longer exists for whatever reason. These fundamental features not working scare me. And love or hate BnF, when someone with so many notes and EN experience decides to jump, it definitely makes you take notice.

 

For me it seems Evernote has become a jack of all trades. I'd swap robust reliability and security over bling all day long. BnF will probably tell me to go and use GoogleDrive again. No Thanks, I was liking Evernote before the confusion.

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"If you have already been an unlucky victim, I sincerely apologize"

Frank.dg - Are you an Evernote employee or in a PR firm that works for Evernote?

Great white, diplomat, South Africa. Your post seems a bit odd and off topic.

The concern is the direction Phil Libin and others are taking Evernote..

You honestly don't understand why someone who uses the cloud would complain about privacy/ trust issues?

Sounds more like a rant from the NSA

This post looks kind of non sequitur to me. Could you spell it out for me? I seem to be missing something here.

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GM... that's because I deleted my post to which @jbenson2 was referring to. It may have been out of place (and off topic), even though responding to post #26. I sent him a PM to let him know I was deleting it... and suggested he delete his post too. I realized the message would not be taken well to, and didn't want to prolong any sort of debate. Anyways, just to clarify... I was indirectly responding to post #26, and mentioned a couple of things, such as why people sign up for a cloud-based service and then complain about trust/ privacy issues. I then made an attempt at what I thought might have been humorous to some, saying something along the lines of there being more chance of being attacked by a Great White shark in an ill-fated surfing trip to South Africa or Australia, than your information inexplicably disappearing from a mainstream repository such as Dropbox, Google Drive or Evernote... I then wrote a response to him in a long-winded post, explaining a few things, including the fact that it was a pet peeve of mine and extending my apologies... but in the end, I deleted both, since I'm not interested in getting into a debate with anyone here about what was most certainly a sensitive topic.

i see. it probably is best to avoid analogies, especially ones involving the loss of life. i agree that we should just let this one go, especially since you have deleted the post.

to your point about the cloud, and risks involved there, phil libin (evernote ceo) has said that they are targeting people who want to use the cloud, not the ones who are uncomfortable putting stuff there. evernote has made its position clear from the beginning. they have also been emphasizing collaboration and sharing over your personal, anti-social media external brain for several years now. The current price hike, and Evernote's direction shouldn't come as a shock to people, in my opinion.

personally, i think this is not good for evernote or its users, and i think evernote really ought to have implemented better encryption options by now such as encrypted notebooks, but i haven't been able to persuade evernote. as i have often said, they aren't behind in this regard, because very few other services offer encryption either. i talk on my blog more about how to stay secure if anyone wants to know more.

i would just end by saying that i think people ought to be much more concerned about their security and privacy, and if they were less eager to trade security and privacy for convenience, evernote and other services would have more incentive to beef up their services. we would probably also have a govt. that strongly supported our fourth amendment rights rather than worked to undermine them. in other words, we only have ourselves to blame for the current predicament, and it seems increasingly unlikely to me that tech companies are going to step in to sort this out -- they are waiting on the govt., as comments by phil have suggested.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/nov/01/evernote-phil-libin-nsa-consumer-confidence

another election has come and gone without addressing this issue. maybe in another couple years, the electorate will manage to push it to the fore.

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In the hope of keeping this conversation focused. These are the three most liked posts in this thread and therefore considered (by most) the most important points.

 

 

What news? Maybe you should post a link to what you read.

 

From Metrodon:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/nov/04/evernote-premium-price-phil-libin

 

It also confirms that EN has changed focus from being "my" external brain to being a business tool.  Something that has been very clear in the past several months, but nice to (FINALLY) get confirmation from Evernote.  Unfortunate for those of us who signed up for the "MY" external brain thing.  I don't mind the price increase.  I'm sure it's justified.  But I really do mind the change of the focus of the app, especially with no formal warning.   We just had to read the writing on the wall & go from there. 

 

"Libin said that Evernote has rethought the core of its business, drilling down on work and businesses, rather than consumer note-taking."

 

 

 

That line by PL is a heavy blow for people like me who hopes EN will improve its note-taking experience further.

They still have a lot of things to do in this area, but it sounds like they think personal note-taking has been perfected.

At this time, I believe most people use EN largely because the competitors in the note-taking area are inferior to EN. But the situation could change.

 

I would rather pay for a product that is the top of an area than one having a bunch of mediocre features across many areas.

 

 

I too am a VERY long-time user of Evernote. I started with version 1 release 1 Point 1 or whatever.  Basically, as soon as it became available. I could see that this was going to be a VERY useful tool. And I stumped up for Premium, 2 accounts (self and Mrs Self), basically to shore up support that the company would "make it" and not fall by the wayside due to everyone using the freebie and nobody paying. And I didn't want advertising.

 

Like BnF, I use it for my 2nd brain - I store anything and everything, from patient information brochures to web-clippings (thousands of 'em), from PDFs to graphics, from scanned documents to receipts, etc etc, as I'm sure most of you all do too.  Mrs Self uses it for recipes, receipts, instruction manuals, etc etc.

 

But this new focus on business tools, should really be a separate product. I have absolutely ZERO use for Work Chat (who the hell wants another one, on top of IM, iMessage, SMS texts, Facebook Messenger, etc etc etc?) and I have less than zero use for Context. Why the hell would I want Evernote to analyse MY notes and come up with something I didn't ask for?

 

And they have relegated "Share Note via Email" away from the "Share" button - it's now buried two deep in a menu, and they're deprecating it - usually means getting rid of the function. Very VERY BAD MOVE, Evernote team...!

 

They took away our configurable toolbar some time ago (yeah, yeah, I know - but let me harp on it one more time) so that we HAVE to use whatever THEY dictate goes on the toolbar - which is largely empty. There is no way I can put "Email Note" button on there, for example.  Or even such a commonly used one as "Print Note". Nope - it's their way or the highway.

 

The problem seems to be that they're trying to make the one version of Evernote into all things for all people - and as a result they're going to make it not many things for a few people. Direction lost. Should be at least two separate apps - Evernote Private, and Evernote Business, for example.

 

As far as monetisation goes, they should perhaps put more deterrents in the free version (no OCR, few more ads, limit number of notes that sync, whatever), to encourage a much higher proportion of users to go premium - and of course, keep the premium version at a reasonable price to help that encouragement.

 

Libin is off in his own little fairy world, I think. He is not listening. He sees himself as some sort of messiah. And he is in grave danger of the company doing a swift dive into the never-never by his approach, rather than building on success and then just polishing that success to make everything work as smoothly and quickly as possible.

 

Don't need or want Work Chat.  Don't need or want Context.  DO need and want configurable toolbar.  DO need and want Email Note one-button functionality....  Are you listening Phil???

 

End of rant - for now :ph34r:

 

 

Frank.dg, you are a great conversation starter and working your way towards moderation, but dude, . . ..  you're all over the board with your thoughts. You're a great guy but lets stay focused. Evernote is actually watching this thread and I for one want them to hear these points.

 

Apologies in advance -- I am just very frustrated and this is important.

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Any projections on how much it’ll change for users in the USA? I ass-u-me we’d get a notice before auto-renewal along with the option of opting out of any price increase…

 

...just a reminder of the OP.

 

But in line with the subsequent conversation:

 

I see every indication that the note-taking experience will continue to improve. One such example would be the common editor which will standardize cross-platform editing. 

 

Here's something Andrew Sinkov said in his talk:

 

  • We're not about the storage... of course you can put everything into Evernote that you want. We're about surfacing it, making it valuable and giving you the information that you need... in order to build the narrative that you need to work better.

This smacks of "External Brain" and "Remember Everything", even though he said that this would no longer be the way they want people to think about Evernote. I've made this point elsewhere a few times. It does not seem to be a contradiction to me. Also, do yourself a favor and listen to the last question/ last 2 minutes of the video GM posted. Andrew answers a question something to the effect of whether Evernote cares about the "gardener". 

 

I also suggested in the same thread (which I still think would be a worthwhile exercise) the following:

 

Now, in practical terms (actual features), it would be an interesting exercise to outline what, specifically, we have lost/ might be losing (from the note-taking perspective) - in order to separate the conceptual from the practical - both present as well as the up-and-coming. At present, I personally am not affected in any way. But those of you who've come up against anything significant... it'd be great to sort of quantify it. As far as I am aware, these are the practical things that have already impacted/ may impact peoples' workflow/ modus operandi:

  1. New Web beta interface (a marked downgrade for those who rely on the Web client)
  2. The tentative status of Public notebooks (although I'm holding thumbs on this one)
  3. ......

... To which JMichael responded with some very relevant sync, scalability and security issues...

 

But still, (and I think this thread has devolved into exactly the same topic that has been dealt with there - so I don't think you would mind me rehashing it here) I think it pragmatic to list what we know for sure has been rolled back since the implementation of Work Chat and Contexts (which by the way, is simply an extension of related notes, Google simultaneous search and more) AND which features we can reasonably predict will be pulled out from under us. I think the topic will remain one of conjecture... and will keep going in vicious circles until our "worst fears" are either confirmed or quelled by Evernote in the coming months and years.

 

So... can you think of anything else that has been dropped or downgraded besides the Web beta restrictions many are feeling? Could you spell out how you imagine Evernote would actually go about taking away our "Remember Everything" and "External Brain", besides the fact they said that was no longer the way they wanted people to think of Evernote. What features would they actually need to restrict/pull for that to become a reality... so that we can't put more of what we already do put into Evernote...and how we would see a degeneration of what we are able to "remember" or access via a search, etc? How would they, in other words cause "amnesia" to set in? I'd like to see some concrete/ predictable examples (not necessarily from you... from any and all Evernote users).

 

As of today, I see absolutely no changes to the way I can input material into Evernote and have what I want surface. If they do begin to limit note-taking as we know it in any way, I will be among the first to get enormously peeved. I have personally seen more diverse ways of getting info into Evernote emerge recently... such as clipping Gmail emails to your account, clipping and notification center shortcuts in iOS... more ways of surfacing information we have (related notes implemented not so long ago, etc.) I've seen an abundance of new ways (especially in iOS) to access the information we need by bubbling recent notes accessed and searched for to the top of a thoughtfully put together layout. The way I see it, "Remember Everything" is diversifying. If premium members don't care for Contexts... they can opt out. Work Chat seems to be the big thorn in the side here. Specifically not being able to hide the Work Chat icon on mobile devices. But other than users connecting the dots and warning that more focus on the "Work Space" will draw resources away from the betterment of the core product we've enjoyed up until the present day... will Evernote in any way regress in capability as we now see it?

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[ . . . ]

As of today, I see absolutely no changes to the way I can input material into Evernote and have what I want surface

 

[ . . . ]

 

That's great Frank.dg, happy for you.

 

The problem for a lot of us is that we CAN NOT use the Web Beta  to "surface" what we need, and we see the Web Beta as the test for the Desktop Apps to follow.  It's wonderful that you can "surface" everything you need -- WE CAN'T.  We use complex searching, tag organization and we need to move back and forth from one search to another quickly moving data, notes and information - pop, pop, pop, We pop-out notes for clarity and we switch notebooks in seconds from one to the other, We search for A but not B, including C and D. The application WE USE is not a "Note App" but is known as a "Data Base" -- and OUR use of Evernote is just totally trashed and unusable with the Web Base Beta

 

So you can add for your point number 3

 

3) A worthless and unusable depository of important information you can no longer retrieve in in complex and important ways

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[ . . . ]

As of today, I see absolutely no changes to the way I can input material into Evernote and have what I want surface

 

[ . . . ]

 

That's great Frank.dg, happy for you.

 

The problem for a lot of us is that we CAN NOT use the Web Beta  to "surface" what we need, and we see the Web Beta as the test for the Desktop Apps to follow.  It's wonderful that you can "surface" everything you need -- WE CAN'T.  We use complex searching, tag organization and we need to move back and forth from one search to another quickly moving data, notes and information - pop, pop, pop, We pop-out notes for clarity and we switch notebooks in seconds from one to the other, We search for A but not B, including C and D. The application WE USE is not a "Note App" but is known as a "Data Base" -- and OUR use of Evernote is just totally trashed and unusable with the Web Base Beta

 

So you can add for your point number 3

 

3) A worthless and unusable depository of important information you can no longer retrieve in in complex and important ways

 

 

I think your #3 is the same as my #1

 

I'm not downplaying the severity of the Web Beta (opted in for) as it now stands.  FWIW, there have been some minor tweaks and improvements related to that, and there may be more to come... but sadly, I don't think it will be anywhere close to the old/ current working version. So that is a HUGE blow to many. I'm not gloating. It also impacts me significantly in one use case: A database I put together of roughly 17,000 comic strips - the words within which are accurately picked up by Evernote's OCR -  returns more search results on the web client than other platforms... so it is/ was a more robust platform in the sense that it is 100% web based and so is better able to retrieve information from the whole of your database and not show partial results when dealing with a significant number of matches.

 

So... for all intents and purposes, it seems like it's the Web beta that is affected. Not a cross-platform-wide downgrade... but singularly, a disaster for many who rely on the Web client - especially when there is a forced implementation and it is no longer an opt-in. 

 

However, from what I can tell, most of the uneasiness (to put it mildly) centers around what people guess may or may not happen on all platforms as a result of the change in vision. The Web beta is barely functional when compared to the versatility of desktop... but there's not a snowball's chance in hell that the desktop would follow suite. I'm pretty sure of that. That doesn't make the Web thing OK, I know. In other words, part of the frustration is because of the Web beta... but more so what may lie around the corner for Evernote itself. Not all frustration is as a result of the Web beta. That's a fraction of the sum total of what could go south.

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The problem for a lot of us is that we CAN NOT use the Web Beta  to "surface" what we need, and we see the Web Beta as the test for the Desktop Apps to follow.  It's wonderful that you can "surface" everything you need -- WE CAN'T.  We use complex searching, tag organization and we need to move back and forth from one search to another quickly moving data, notes and information - pop, pop, pop, We pop-out notes for clarity and we switch notebooks in seconds from one to the other, We search for A but not B, including C and D. The application WE USE is not a "Note App" but is known as a "Data Base" -- and OUR use of Evernote is just totally trashed and unusable with the Web Base Beta

If you're going by web beta to make substantive judgements about Evernote clients in general, you're not paying attention, or you're just cherry-picking a reason to complain. They've already said that there are features missing that they're going to put back in. I don't know what it's going to be like when it's "done"" and neither do you. And you don't know whether the desktop and mobile apps are going to follow, either. With respect to the the web beta, just revert to the released version; it still works, last I checked (and it doesn't have work chat, which unaccountably seems to be driving people bug-house crazy). Or you can just keep batting your head with your own fist. Your choice.

 

But stop using we" as if it means "everyone". It doesn't.

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[ . .. ]... but there's not a snowball's chance in hell that the desktop would follow suite. [. . . ]

 

 

You don't say? And your certainty of this is from . .  ..?

 

FYI  #3 is a  deal braker -- it just does not get any worse than that

(3) A worthless and unusable depository of important information you can no longer retrieve in in complex and important ways)

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i'd caution again against treating andrew's talk as just meaningless words, and as much as we give phil trouble for some of the things he says, i think if you look at his statements over time, he has been surprisingly consistent, especially from about 2012. they've got a vision, and while it is not the one they started with, it is the one they have been promoting for a couple of years.

it should come as no surprise that the rewrite of the website looks simple. that's exactly what phil said he wanted to do. will it have all of the features as the old site? i doubt it. the old site lacks some of the features that the older site had. stuff changes over time, with some things getting dropped and other things getting added.

i don't see any point in quantifying changes. i'm not sure how we would weight the loss of the mobile web site, the gain of a simpler beta site, or the blocking of ios browsers from accessing the web site. we certainly don't know the reasons for these decisions, and they may have all been completely unconnected with either vision. i'm much more interested in my own experience, my own expectations, and my own use case -- i'm selfish.

my opinion is that evernote has finite resources and is choosing to apply them to projects that will fulfill their vision for the app, so it may not be so much what disappears (see my other posts for some examples of that stuff), but what doesn't get done. if you've ever seen the simpsons episode where homer designs the car, then you know that this decision to follow a vision may not be so bad, and it might be in evernote's best interests to reject the suggestions of people who want the app to go back to its original focus. rejecting is not ignoring.

they're listening. they're talking this stuff over. i think that's exactly what we ought to expect. they may still decide to raise the price of premium, but that decision doesn't mean they are ignoring us. i recommend people keep advocating for whatever they want to see in the app, even if it doesn't fit the current vision, because as we have seen, they are open to changing the vision as necessary.

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i don't see any point in quantifying changes. i'm not sure how we would weight the loss of the mobile web site, the gain of a simpler beta site, or the blocking of ios browsers from accessing the web site. we certainly don't know the reasons for these decisions, and they may have all been completely unconnected with either vision. i'm much more interested in my own experience, my own expectations, and my own use case -- i'm selfish.

 

 

Yep... quantifying changes in itself does not matter, if what's going to happen is going to happen... but for the same selfish reasons, I thought it would be nice to know, personally, where I stand and what my options are. To sort of take stock of where we're at and where we might head - not based on "What if's", but more on what we see has been rolled back as of late, and what clear indications we have for the coming months. I was of the thought that "many hands make light work"... that if there was something clearly written on the wall, or there was a significant feature recently pulled that I had overlooked, it would be easily picked up by at least a few of the 100,000,000 users... or  fraction thereof that might visit the Evernote forum. 

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[ . .. ]... but there's not a snowball's chance in hell that the desktop would follow suite. [. . . ]

 

 

You don't say? And your certainty of this is from . .  ..?

 

FYI  #3 is a  deal braker -- it just does not get any worse than that

(3) A worthless and unusable depository of important information you can no longer retrieve in in complex and important ways)

 

 

It's more based on a gut feel… But here is why I am more certain than doubtful that the desktop clients will not follow suit and go down the same path as the Web Beta
 
  • As Jefito said, they're not done with the Web Beta yet
  • Evernote would certainly lose their core supporters (and Evangelists)/power users. This would unnecessarily alienate a significant portion of all Evernote users.
  • I'd like to kick this around a little and make it a thing of web vs desktop:
    • If any two platforms ever had a resemblance, it'd be these two
    • Given the opportunity to test the concept of what they see as a distraction-free work space, the web would seem to be the most logical one to gamble on.
    • Given that Windows smart phone/android/iOS/desktop are all so uniquely different, why not give one of the two most similar an overhaul?
    • Since the work space thing is taking shape around Evernote's belief that "The one thing everyone has in common, is work." (From Andrew's speech); it also seems to me that the only platform that everyone (with access to a desktop at least) has in common, is the web client. Not everyone has a Windows portable device/iPad/iPhone/android/Windows desktop/MacBook etc...
    • Changing up the web client would drive many people who need desktop flexibility to the desktop client itself... Sort of a polarizing effect. 
    • If, on the off chance, users who primarily chose desktop over web, quite enjoyed the idea of a distraction free writing/working environment, the use of the web client might then become a regular addition to their workflow (for specific use cases), thereby instantly offering a "richer"/"more varied" range of options/ user experience. The web (beta) may be useful/beneficial to some, at least in some "context" (GTD-speaking). This would define and contrast the web and desktop clients further.
    • A changing up of the web client presents less of a train smash than a similar change to desktop (Mac and Windows):
      • Just like I use my iPad in some contexts that require more mobility/comfort/different frame of mind… And I am not able to batch edit etc. (desktop functionality), if I were on the new web Beta, I would then wait for the next opportunity to batch edit/tag etc. on desktop client if one we're not really available.
      • (And I've been leading up to this)… Those who currently rely on the web client (released version) may have various motivations… Among them:
        • Perhaps you're on a work computer/other, where the desktop client may not be installed.
        • Perhaps you're a Linux user (No desktop client)
        • Maybe you have limited desktop storage space (HD)
      • In most cases, I think, these uses would probably have access to a desktop client on a PC at home or at least in some other context. In many cases, the "batch work"/specific search capabilities needed, could be accessed at a later time (just as in the case of using an iPad). Alternatively, one could create saved searches and include them in the Shortcuts list to then be accessed while on the web (Beta version). Or else, this presents the opportunity to get really conversant with the rich and varied "search syntax" itself in all its shapes and forms . It's also difficult to imagine that a significant portion of Linux users would not have access to a Windows desktop/Mac at some point during a typical day. Also, if your PC has limited storage capabilities, there's always the possibility of a future upgrade. In the case of Evernote on a company computer where one didn't have authorization to install the desktop client, that might change in the future, since Evernote is a decent work tool (in general) that merits consideration from the company/IT department, especially if they understood its potential in the workplace. In that sense, although not ideal, there are possible workarounds when it comes to trying to make do without the current release (old) web version. I'm not saying this smugly as if I've found solutions for everyone... but what the heck would one do if they suddenly no longer had access to something they previously depended on? Imagine the same scenario with the desktop client... So Evernote came to their decision through who knows what criteria.
  • Evernote has not indicated a change in functionality of the desktop clients (even so, there would be a Beta version prior to a new release)
  • Evernote can force a web client change for all users, but not a desktop client upgrade. This would have people "stubbornly" clinging to the old release (not unlike tree huggers), which would be near impossible to pry them (us) away from
  • Public notebooks came back after an outcry. Also, joining a public notebook became briefly impossible with the new web Beta, until they rerouted to the current release and fixed that issue rather quickly. This shows me that they are sorely aware of the limitations that the web Beta currently poses, especially if they need to employ the current release to allow us to view and join public notebooks. They would need to include more functionality in the web Beta to maintain this. Incidentally (a case for Public notebooks sticking around) why would they go to the trouble to fix this, when it could have been an easy way out - a good excuse to drop Public notebooks? (This shows me a sustained effort to keep some really great features)
  • As far as the mobile clients go:
    • The way I see it, they are already "optimized" for the "work space" vision.
      • Work Chat is a lot more visual and responds faster
      • The mobile clients inherently have less clutter (look at the recent android upgrade/ overhaul, for example)
    • All mobile clients already lack the "heavy lifting" capabilities that desktop and the current release (old version) web clients have.
    • It is therefore not worth considering what might happen to mobile clients in terms of being downgraded in capability (due to Evernote's shift in vision). At least it would be negligible.
    • It seems to me, therefore, that it all boils down to none other than the fate of the desktop client
That's why, it is of my opinion, that there is "not a snowballs chance in hell" that the desktop client will follow suit... at least not to the degree that many suspect it might. I'm not trying to predict anything. It may all be a little over my head - but rather, these are the things I pick up on, whether they are worthy considerations or not. In that sense, I do actually derive a little peace of mind from this. Who knows? I could be deluding myself... but I think (I hope) I am seeing things logically. 
 

 

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i don't see any point in quantifying changes. i'm not sure how we would weight the loss of the mobile web site, the gain of a simpler beta site, or the blocking of ios browsers from accessing the web site. we certainly don't know the reasons for these decisions, and they may have all been completely unconnected with either vision. i'm much more interested in my own experience, my own expectations, and my own use case -- i'm selfish.

 

 

Yep... quantifying changes in itself does not matter, if what's going to happen is going to happen... but for the same selfish reasons, I thought it would be nice to know, personally, where I stand and what my options are. To sort of take stock of where we're at and where we might head - not based on "What if's", but more on what we see has been rolled back as of late, and what clear indications we have for the coming months. I was of the thought that "many hands make light work"... that if there was something clearly written on the wall, or there was a significant feature recently pulled that I had overlooked, it would be easily picked up by at least a few of the 100,000,000 users... or  fraction thereof that might visit the Evernote forum. 

 

 

I am still unclear about how one would go about accumulating or interpreting this data. They recently removed customer support for Free users, presumably the majority of the 100 million users, so I would say that was a pretty big change. Why did they do it? I don't know. What does that bode for the future? I don't know. Does it matter to most users? Maybe not, because I imagine the majority of users have never used support and don't plan to use it in the future. Will it matter to me or you? It might if you run into problems :)

 

Broadly speaking, I think we can expect Evernote to continue pushing forward with AI type changes to the app -- ways to "surface" information for you. I would further speculate that they will beef up one glaring, sometimes requested, and potentially very powerful feature would be auto-filing of stuff. It's kind of there already with your web clips, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see it make its way into the rest of the service someday. Speculation along these lines (things that fit their vision) is probably not going to be too far off the mark. That's why (circling back to the earlier discussion) I recommend people listen to what they say and don't dismiss the words as empty or meaningless. When they say they have changed how they view the service, I expect we will see different kinds of features roll out in the future. 

 

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/36864-auto-filing/

 

As you'll see in the link, it looks like I was one of the first people to notice the new auto-filing feature. I think that gets me five gold starts or something :) Evernote often fails to announce changes, and so we are sometimes unaware of the tremendous amount of work the developers are doing behind the scenes. I've encouraged them to communicate these changes more. Hopefully, they'll adopt that suggestion. In the meantime, as users, I think the best thing we can do is urge them to make the app that we want for our individual use cases, let them sort through these and pull out what they want, and keep an eye out for changes to the app that might be beneficial to our workflows.

 

And, for the cost-conscious, you might want to keep an eye out for price hikes. They've announced it for Premium members, and this would be a good time to pull the trigger if you are thinking of going Premium.

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I never use web access to Evernote.  I use the Evernote client on my Macs, iPad, iPhone, and one Windows PC. So I really have no idea what everyone is referring to about the web client. It may as well not exist as far as I'm concerned.

 

I do however use Web Clipping.

 

However, that is a very selfish viewpoint, I admit, so I won't poke any criticisms at something I don't use.

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i don't see any point in quantifying changes. i'm not sure how we would weight the loss of the mobile web site, the gain of a simpler beta site, or the blocking of ios browsers from accessing the web site. we certainly don't know the reasons for these decisions, and they may have all been completely unconnected with either vision. i'm much more interested in my own experience, my own expectations, and my own use case -- i'm selfish.

 

 

Yep... quantifying changes in itself does not matter, if what's going to happen is going to happen... but for the same selfish reasons, I thought it would be nice to know, personally, where I stand and what my options are. To sort of take stock of where we're at and where we might head - not based on "What if's", but more on what we see has been rolled back as of late, and what clear indications we have for the coming months. I was of the thought that "many hands make light work"... that if there was something clearly written on the wall, or there was a significant feature recently pulled that I had overlooked, it would be easily picked up by at least a few of the 100,000,000 users... or  fraction thereof that might visit the Evernote forum. 

 

 

I am still unclear about how one would go about accumulating or interpreting this data. They recently removed customer support for Free users, presumably the majority of the 100 million users, so I would say that was a pretty big change. Why did they do it? I don't know. What does that bode for the future? I don't know. Does it matter to most users? Maybe not, because I imagine the majority of users have never used support and don't plan to use it in the future. Will it matter to me or you? It might if you run into problems :)

 

What I've suggested is not nearly as complicated as that. What is there to interpret? If we then expanded the list to include zero customer support for Free users, then I would say, "OK... I understand the motivation, obviously related to resources available... but does that have anything to do with Evernote's evolution into a service that surfaces your info through artificially augmented intelligence (Contexts, etc), a new work space concept including a de-cluttered Web Beta and Work Chat... and any number of up-and-coming features? Does it have anything to do with us losing any functionality in Evernote continuing to help us remember everything and be our external brain?" I don't know... you be the judge of that. But at the most basic level, one now sees that as a possible regression overall. Simple. No data analysis... no doctoral thesis. I actually think that sort of thing would be useful for those who are speculating (God forbid you try and stop them) - it might help some to speculate with better clarity. Or maybe certain peoples' speculating might find some sort of temporary closure. Whatever. No need to interpret. A mention will suffice. The implications may or may not be sufficiently practical and obvious to those who are made aware of any change to the service.

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...And I didn't want advertising.

Ad revenue for the free users is fair as long as they are not supplying ANY information to those advertizers. I dislike advertisers targeting me. For those who pay NO ADS - PERIOD.

 ...

But this new focus on business tools, should really be a separate product. ...

I absolutely agree. Should be easy enough to do. Just enable/disable business focused tools. Context search -- get rid of it and stop snooping on my work.

As far as interface, they should allow users to modify the menues to their liking - a premium feature. Where do we see users complaining about seeing Share Note via Email on the Share button? I too think removing functions that make sense is stupid. It wasn't broken so leave it alone. As far as printing [ios], ensure we can print to third party print apps installed.

 

 

...

The problem seems to be that they're trying to make the one version of Evernote into all things for all people - and as a result they're going to make it not many things for a few people. Direction lost. Should be at least two separate apps - Evernote Private, and Evernote Business, for example.

 

I hear you and agree. Or simply disable features that are useless for home/private users. Feedback will guide them as to what is important or not for each side.

Libin is off in his own little fairy world, I think. He is not listening. He sees himself as some sort of messiah. And he is in grave danger of the company doing a swift dive into the never-never by his approach, rather than building on success and then just polishing that success to make everything work as smoothly and quickly as possible.

I picked up that same feeling watching him on YouTube. Evernote you maybe around but liked by very few.

Increase in fees maybe reasonable, changing direction is not in my opinion. And stop trying to be everything to everyone. You have outstanding bugs in your app fix them instead.

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It's more based on a gut feel…  [ . . . ]

 

 

 

Dude! . . . .. You're over a thousand words!

 

I don't go on gut feeling. I go on what they tell us. I go on their word (if we can even trust it any more) and I go on what they actually produced with their Beta.

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It's more based on a gut feel… [ . . . ]

Dude! . . . .. You're over a thousand words!

I don't go on gut feeling. I go on what they tell us. I go on their word (if we can even trust it any more) and I go on what they actually produced with their Beta.

Okie dokie...

Knew you would pick up on that. Gut feel... based on some very worthy tidbits. Ok... I dare you to play nice and concede just one teeny tiny point. There are more than a few very smart things in that post, if I do say so myself. Yes... over a thousand words. BUT. Over a thousand very focused, practical and pragmatic words - based on real technical and otherwise info. Can you do likewise? I mean, without flipping out?

 

It's clear that you are hung up on solely the Web Beta (Also, there's a whole section of the forum devoted to that). JohnDM... I'm with you on that one. Really. I myself was talking about the Web Beta as it relates to the "uncertainty" of the Desktop client in that specific post. Very focused. Try and find anything off-topic there. You've told me I'm a nice guy, but I'm all over the place etc, etc... working my way to being a moderator (whoopie!)... I've overlooked a number of these sorts of comments. I mean, what is that?? I'm going on real-life, real-speak information. After all, I did transcribe half the speech verbatim. In case you didn't know, I'm kind of serious about this whole deal too. I'm deeply invested. I would ask you to think twice before going off on a tangent and at least try to "live and let live" - given that I do believe I'm making a whole lot of sense. The lighthearted comments interspersed are to (try) and avoid conflict. Trust me, I'm not looking for it. Sincerely.

 

I think more than a few might find the post you're referring to quite interesting (It was written with love):

 

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/73373-i-see-in-the-news-today-nov-4-2014-evernote-premium-price-may-change/page-2#entry318490

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[ . . . ]

It's clear that you are hung up on solely the Web Beta

 

[ . . . ]

 

 

 

Frank.dg, yeah that's kind of the point. You have said the Web Betta works fine for you. and I have acknowledged that and am happy for you. The web beta dose NOT work for me at all. I can not see context, I can not make complex searches and make quick switches back and forth from notebooks and tags and saved searched. You seem to not understand that.

 

I know a of a few power users in the forums that are in the same position as me and I would bet there are millions like us.

 

 

[ . . . ]

 Really. I myself was talking about the Web Beta as it relates to the "uncertainty" of the Desktop client in that specific post

 

[ . . .]

 

 

Ok.  I acknowledge that this is what you are talking about as if you do not need the same power of searching and retrieval in the web that you do on your desk top. Many of us might be in a public place (or at work where we can't have our personal evernote account on company computers)  or we might be out of town without our laptop and need the power that the desktop offers -- apparently this is a not a problem for you -- that's great. I am happy for you. It is a problem for me and I would bet millions like me.

 

 

[ . . . ]

I'm kind of serious about this whole deal too. I'm deeply invested.

 

[ . . .]

 

 

Me too. So I am not being dismissive of your comments because of  thinking that you did not care about the service or were not as invested in it as I am. It just so happens the new beta works for you. so why wouldn't you be so concerned about it, maybe even excited about it and feel affronted that I so strongly disagree with you. The beta does NOT work for me, Is not usable and is a disaster.

 

It's not personal Frank.dg. I am sure we agree on many things about Evennote -- this is not one of them

 

 

[ . . . ]

I would ask you to think twice before going off on a tangent and at least try to "live and let live"

 

[ . . .]

 

 

That's lovely coming from a person that finds the Beta usable and just the normal course of evolution -- you can be  nonchalant about this like we are talking the difference between Coke and Pepsi

 

So I ask *YOU*, Frank.dg, to acknowledge that this is critically serious for me (and many like me) and this represents thousands of work hours that are in jeopardy, it represents not being able to retrieve my notes the way I need to  and it represents putting my life in a mess trying to come up with a solution if and when I need to change

 

So again -- this is not personal. The changes affecting you are little Vs, effecting me are great. You are copacetic with the new changes Vs I find them disastrous for me personally and I think for millions like me AND I am trying to convince Evernote it just might be disastrous for  them as well.   You keeping wanting to disagree with me (though be it in a  very kind way)  --  thus the back and forth.

 

The stakes are higher for me and many like me

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JohnDM...

I think you're totally missing the boat here. I'm not saying that the Web Beta is working fine for me. Quite the opposite... and yes... you are getting hung up onthe Web Beta (and rightly so - although I'm looking at a larger context) while I'm talking about what Evernote's change of vision implies for the desktop. The interesting thing is that you yourself brought up the fact that the overhaul on the Web Client would most likely spell disaster for the Desktop client... and implied that it would follow suit. Do you not use the desktop? (rhetorical question). I understand you perfectly. I said so. ("I'm with you on that one"). Could one be any clearer? Again, where did I say that "the Beta works for me"? I confine myself to the desktop client when on my laptop due to the inflexibility of the Web Beta. I even pointed out earlier a specific use case of mine that requires the current web release to give satisfactory results (as opposed to using the desktop client for such). Do yourself a favor and re-read everything. I think you've been lashing out so much and being so defensive that you perhaps think my "over 1,000 words" were directed at you. As I've already said, that specific perspective might be useful to others. I see you coming across as pretty in-your-face to anyone who doesn't give you a pat on the back. I get it... the Web Beta is unusable to you. It's as you say, a disaster.

I think you're having a disagreeing party all on our lonesome. We're not disagreeing about the Web Beta. You say that I find the Beta to be just the normal course of evolution (I think you're getting confused with some comments from other posters). As a side note, the Web Beta is usable, just not as much as we would want it. You need to be a better listener. Why do I need to be stating the obvious? I'm being nonchalant? I think you need to choose your words a little more carefully. Your tone and the way you feel the need to blow off steam and direct it at specific people is not OK. Granted, your last post was a little more civil than previous ones... but still - you've misinterpreted me. By the way, in most instances, you have cherry picked a couple of things I've said, taking them out of their broader context when quoting me. If one did not read my previous posts, a few of them may be misconstrued. Not the most ideal. I hope you see my point.

Maybe cool down and then come back and have a decent back and forth conversation (with someone else if you prefer) without calling people "Dude!" and telling people in a condescending way "You're a great guy but you're all over the map". I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Seriously. And I overlooked those comments on more than one occasion. I am now 6 posts shy of becoming a moderator... sure... whatever that means... why did you have to bring that up (That I'm "working [my] way to being a moderator")? That has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. I would be repeating myself if I were to respond to the rest of your rant. I think you get the point. I'm not responding to anything more on this little diversion. I would prefer to see these last few back-and-forth's of ours deleted, actually.

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Thanks for the link, BnF & Metrodon.

 

Right now, Evernote is as useful to me as it ever was, if not more so. My personal use case is a lot like my work use case. I'm not doing wine label collecting or anything like that. Sure, they're focusing more on collaboration, but basic features (collection, clipping, organization, search) need to be there, otherwise what are you collaborating with? It's not clear what's going to be lost, at least in my case.

 

I have discussed this before but...

 

For me, Evernote has become useless because of the scaling issue.  I cannot use my main account on the Windows desktop nor the iOS client due to the number of notes (over 64,000) or the size of the database (over 37 gigs) or both.  SO...about two years ago, I created my "duet" account & would share a few notebooks between the two accounts.  However, about six months ago, the sharing got effed up...(discussed that on the board & supplied ticket numbers - "ghost notes" would remain & I'd have to do the "rebuild my local database thing."  Then they fixed it...then it broke again.)  The cherry on top was when I realized the web client (the only client I can use my main account on) doesn't search correctly.  (Also discussed on the board & supplied the ticket number.)

 

Sure, I can still take/create notes.  But if I can't use the app to RETRIEVE them, then it's not really helpful. 

 

Oddly enough, unless EN does a major overhaul, these are issues that will persist with a focus on business. 

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way.. but I am curious how people use Evernote to get 65,000 notes.  Rough math.. for the past 7 years, you have created 25 notes a day..every day of the week, non stop!  Wow!  I can't fathom what this would be for and I am really curious?!!  

 

Any insights?

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With gigabytes of free storage, 25 notes/day is not that outrageous. The world is going digital.

 

I have 30,000+ in Evernote. Due to scalability problems with Evernote, I am putting more of my stuff into Google Keep, OneNote, and Dropbox. And all my photos go into Flickr. I also maintain an aggressive backup program, just in case.

 

1/3rd are scanned documents from actual paper.

https://flic.kr/p/oewCiF

 

2/3rd are web captures and PDF downloads. 

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Don't take this the wrong way.. but I am curious how people use Evernote to get 65,000 notes.  Rough math.. for the past 7 years, you have created 25 notes a day..every day of the week, non stop!  Wow!  I can't fathom what this would be for and I am really curious?!!  

 

Any insights?

 

 

25 notes/day may be on the high end for most people, but it's not hard to get close to that.

 

Most of my notes (42%) come from web clippings.  I do a lot of research on products & services, and also capture articles of interest about my hobbies, news, politics, and finance.  In addition to that I use the FileThis service to autodownload to Evernote monthly statements for many non-sensitive accounts.  So, it can easily add up to 10-15 notes/day, maybe peaking at the 25 level.

 

Of course at the beginning, many users will be uploading lots of PDFs from paper documents in their file archive.

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Out of interest I diveded my total notes by the number of days since my first note was created.  The answer is 13.26 per day.  My notes are comprised of statements, receipts, reference materials, emails, meeting notes, presentations, web clips, tasks, etc.  Surprisingly easy to get to 10+ notes per day the more paperless you want to be.

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Thanks for the link, BnF & Metrodon.

 

Right now, Evernote is as useful to me as it ever was, if not more so. My personal use case is a lot like my work use case. I'm not doing wine label collecting or anything like that. Sure, they're focusing more on collaboration, but basic features (collection, clipping, organization, search) need to be there, otherwise what are you collaborating with? It's not clear what's going to be lost, at least in my case.

 

I have discussed this before but...

 

For me, Evernote has become useless because of the scaling issue.  I cannot use my main account on the Windows desktop nor the iOS client due to the number of notes (over 64,000) or the size of the database (over 37 gigs) or both.  SO...about two years ago, I created my "duet" account & would share a few notebooks between the two accounts.  However, about six months ago, the sharing got effed up...(discussed that on the board & supplied ticket numbers - "ghost notes" would remain & I'd have to do the "rebuild my local database thing."  Then they fixed it...then it broke again.)  The cherry on top was when I realized the web client (the only client I can use my main account on) doesn't search correctly.  (Also discussed on the board & supplied the ticket number.)

 

Sure, I can still take/create notes.  But if I can't use the app to RETRIEVE them, then it's not really helpful. 

 

Oddly enough, unless EN does a major overhaul, these are issues that will persist with a focus on business. 

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way.. but I am curious how people use Evernote to get 65,000 notes.  Rough math.. for the past 7 years, you have created 25 notes a day..every day of the week, non stop!  Wow!  I can't fathom what this would be for and I am really curious?!!  

 

Any insights?

 

 

I think the other thing that gets some folks up to high numbers is adding older files they already had. I am slowly scanning old paper documents and over the summer I put a lot of archive material up from my desktop. When I was new to Evernote, I scanned in old saved recipes from magazines, that probably added 1500 recipes. 

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Don't take this the wrong way.. but I am curious how people use Evernote to get 65,000 notes. Rough math.. for the past 7 years, you have created 25 notes a day..every day of the week, non stop! Wow! I can't fathom what this would be for and I am really curious?!!

Any insights?

As others have mentioned, I added many documents I had scanned as well as documents (IE Word) I created well before starting with Evernote. I imported notes created over several years from my Palm PDA. Plus, I have emails from work and select others auto forwarded to Evernote for archival purposes. I use IFTTT to auto send certain things to Evernote. I often used Fastever Snap to quickly send photos to Evernote from my phone. The photos often were things I saw in stores that I may want to buy later (so I remember where it was and how much it was) or the price of something in one store to compare to prices elsewhere. Etc, etc, etc. It's not that hard to generate an average of tens of notes a day.

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With respect to the web beta being a harbinger of the future for the desktop clients: I think that is patently false. 

 

WHY? Because Libin said exactly the opposite in his talk at EC2014. He made it very clear that trying to duplicate desktop functionality in a browser had required considerable effort with poor results. He stated plainly that they would treat the web browser as its own distinct client, focusing on only those features done best in a browser or those that are unique to a browser. That they would not try and transplant desktop features to the web for the sake of it

 

To me, this suggests that the feature set available in the web browser will be entirely independent of the feature set available on any of the desktop clients. This means the web will likely do things desktop clients can't, and will like be unable to do many of the things desktop clients can. I think Evernote sees it as an entirely different product. I don't think I am imputing too much, or reading too much between the lines. Libin's words don't have to be stretched too far to reach my conclusion, I don't think. 

 

Now, this doesn't mean that we won't see some of the branding and design language of the web beta get applied to the other clients. While Evernote has never been too diligent about design consistency (that is, aesthetics, exclusively), I can see some of the general design ideas expressed in the web beta moving to other clients to maintain a somewhat coherent brand identity. This would be a rather standard practice, I think, and it more or less independent of features in the sense of "capabilities". 

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Nice to see some users out there who don't anticipate the new EN strategical direction. And I STRONGLY support what NightStalker wrote in post #25.

 

I was about to book a year premium subscription - for the first time after being an EN customer since 2008, simply because I really love what EN is all about (originally). But honestly I'm not that sure about that after reading all that gossip and the statements of the CEO :-(

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Nice to see some users out there who don't anticipate the new EN strategical direction. And I STRONGLY support what NightStalker wrote in post #25.

The use of "anticipate" is a little confusing. Maybe you meant to use some other word? I.e. It doesn't make sense in any context - whether one is for or against the whole change.

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Don't take this the wrong way.. but I am curious how people use Evernote to get 65,000 notes. Rough math.. for the past 7 years, you have created 25 notes a day..every day of the week, non stop! Wow! I can't fathom what this would be for and I am really curious?!!

Any insights?

As others have mentioned, I added many documents I had scanned as well as documents (IE Word) I created well before starting with Evernote. I imported notes created over several years from my Palm PDA. Plus, I have emails from work and select others auto forwarded to Evernote for archival purposes. I use IFTTT to auto send certain things to Evernote. I often used Fastever Snap to quickly send photos to Evernote from my phone. The photos often were things I saw in stores that I may want to buy later (so I remember where it was and how much it was) or the price of something in one store to compare to prices elsewhere. Etc, etc, etc. It's not that hard to generate an average of tens of notes a day.

 

 

 

Evernote started out as a personal tool.  They stated publicly they were not interested in creating a business product.  (As opposed to a personal tool people can use for personal as well as business information.)  They were multi platform.  I started using it in 2008 for archiving emails.  But it wasn't until June 2009 when I started fully using it, thinking it would be my last migration.  (I had migrated data several times b/c of the various PDAs I had used in the past.)  FINALLY...  (I thought...)  No more migrating!   But as stated several places throughout the board, I apparently have outgrown Evernote and am once again...migrating to another tool.  (sigh).  And since they are switching gears, it appears that's where they have focused their resources, rather than fixing the problems those of us with big accounts have encountered.  Oddly enough, unless they fix the already existing core problems, these things will still exist and probably rear their ugly heads more quickly, now that EN is focusing on being a business tool. 

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Nice to see some users out there who don't anticipate the new EN strategical direction. And I STRONGLY support what NightStalker wrote in post #25.

The use of "anticipate" is a little confusing. Maybe you meant to use some other word? I.e. It doesn't make sense in any context - whether one is for or against the whole change.

 

 

@Frank.dg - I'm not an native english speaker, so sorry for any confusion. I just wanted to say that that there are users out there that don't like what EN is heading for...

 

@BurgersNFries - to what platform do you migrate now? Unfortunately I can't find any application who is anywhere near to EN. OneNote seems to be the only big alternative but lacks so many things that I use EN for. Besides that it has another approach for taking note that I appreciate during my work (project work etc.) but not that much as a filing cabinet. 

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To me, this suggests that the feature set available in the web browser will be entirely independent of the feature set available on any of the desktop clients. This means the web will likely do things desktop clients can't, and will like be unable to do many of the things desktop clients can. I think Evernote sees it as an entirely different product. I don't think I am imputing too much, or reading too much between the lines. Libin's words don't have to be stretched too far to reach my conclusion, I don't think. 

Scott,

 

You may be 100% correct with the above statement, time will tell.  An opinion I would interject here is that an entirely independent feature set in a cross platform product is a mistake.  There are some things you just can't do the same based upon platform for sure.  But there are some core things that a user would, and probably should, expect.  Business or personal.  The world is going, has gone, digital.  "You can't" isn't going to be the right answer to why someone is unable to do something core on their phone, tablet or the web.  I believe a company needs to decide what is truly core to their product and replicate that wherever they provide their product.  Bad strategy otherwise.

 

This lack of unification has been a problem for EN in the years I have been using the products.  It really reared it's ugly head with the new web UI, based upon the forum feedback anyway.  EN management could better unify the platforms if they decided to do so.  Set the core and hold themselves accountable to the implied contract with those who use their products.  Frankly, I can't understand why this isn't important to them, makes no sense to me.  Core functionality across platforms would make for a  better world for them and anyone using EN, business or personal, IMO.

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Nice to see some users out there who don't anticipate the new EN strategical direction. And I STRONGLY support what NightStalker wrote in post #25.

The use of "anticipate" is a little confusing. Maybe you meant to use some other word? I.e. It doesn't make sense in any context - whether one is for or against the whole change.

 

 

I think he meant "appreciate". An easy mistake if the poster is not a native English speaker. And I DO appreciate his comment on my post ;)

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JohnDM...

I think you're totally missing the boat here. I'm not saying that the Web Beta is working fine for me. Quite the opposite... 

 

Frank it was obvious he just wasn't reading. Applause for putting up with that nonsense as long as you did while still being civil. JohnDM sounds pretty upset about the beta web UI which I completely understand.  The first time I tried it I was horrified because it doesn't allow me to work the way I need to in Evernote either. That being said...

 

I have to agree with you, gut feeling or not, that the changes in the web UI (assuming of course they become reality. Enough complaints and they very well might shelve the thing) won't make their way to the desktop client. Desktop and Business users are going to need a power platform and the web UI won't cut it, at least not unless they make a lot of very large changes.

 

My opinion is I wish they would stop worrying about these big UI changes and work on adding to the core functionality....like nested folders and a list editor that actually works.

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Thanks for the link, BnF & Metrodon.

 

Right now, Evernote is as useful to me as it ever was, if not more so. My personal use case is a lot like my work use case. I'm not doing wine label collecting or anything like that. Sure, they're focusing more on collaboration, but basic features (collection, clipping, organization, search) need to be there, otherwise what are you collaborating with? It's not clear what's going to be lost, at least in my case.

 

I have discussed this before but...

 

For me, Evernote has become useless because of the scaling issue.  I cannot use my main account on the Windows desktop nor the iOS client due to the number of notes (over 64,000) or the size of the database (over 37 gigs) or both.  SO...about two years ago, I created my "duet" account & would share a few notebooks between the two accounts.  However, about six months ago, the sharing got effed up...(discussed that on the board & supplied ticket numbers - "ghost notes" would remain & I'd have to do the "rebuild my local database thing."  Then they fixed it...then it broke again.)  The cherry on top was when I realized the web client (the only client I can use my main account on) doesn't search correctly.  (Also discussed on the board & supplied the ticket number.)

 

Sure, I can still take/create notes.  But if I can't use the app to RETRIEVE them, then it's not really helpful. 

 

Oddly enough, unless EN does a major overhaul, these are issues that will persist with a focus on business. 

 

 

Don't take this the wrong way.. but I am curious how people use Evernote to get 65,000 notes.  Rough math.. for the past 7 years, you have created 25 notes a day..every day of the week, non stop!  Wow!  I can't fathom what this would be for and I am really curious?!!  

 

Any insights?

 

Easy answer - person may be using EN to clip from the web.

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... or a certain "Peanuts" and "Calvin & Hobbes" fan might have 21,000 comic strips in their primary account, each housed in individual notes. Sorry guys, I can't share. All I can tell you is that Evernote's OCR is a beauty!

 

Those notes alone were amassed over a period of exactly 118 days. 

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I create a note for every job done in my business. That adds up over time....

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Same as ENut, we have a Note for every task, email or phone call into my business, along with a Note for every quotation and every pdf!

 

Soon adds up!

 

Regards

 

 

Chris

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I need to think about what my options are - simply because although Evernote's new business model makes sense for them, it makes sense for to me to try and migrate to something else before the product rot gets too bad.

Indeed. While EN is working for my needs at the moment, despite all its shortcomings, the now-explicit change in company direction means I have to start getting prepared for a time when the app will not meet my needs.

In particular, I need to rethink my use of note links in EN. Seems that is a feature that is not going to migrate well if/when the time comes to jump ship.

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Hi. Note links (essentially file names, unless modified) are picked up as links in VoodooPad and DEVONthink (Mac), so the transition (if necessary) is a smooth one on the Mac. And, if you are willing to go one step further and put brackets [[ ]] around file names, nvALT (Mac) will also make links. Evernote has made it very easy to keep your data portable, so I wouldn't worry too much, but writing in markdown (treating your notes as plain text) will simplify the process even more if moving becomes necessary. Hopefully, Evernote's change in direction, though, won't cause you too much trouble.

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Hi. Note links (essentially file names, unless modified) are picked up as links in VoodooPad and DEVONthink (Mac), so the transition (if necessary) is a smooth one on the Mac. And, if you are willing to go one step further and put brackets [[ ]] around file names, nvALT (Mac) will also make links. Evernote has made it very easy to keep your data portable, so I wouldn't worry too much, but writing in markdown (treating your notes as plain text) will simplify the process even more if moving becomes necessary. Hopefully, Evernote's change in direction, though, won't cause you too much trouble.

Thanks GM. I'm on Windows and will be for the foreseeable future (tied to some apps only available on Windows).

Guess I better stop modifying note links and just leave them as the name of the note to preserve maximum flexibility going forward.

As for EN's change in direction, I hope so too. At the very least, this will mean that EN will finally address the editor (e.g., bullets, etc.) and database size issues as both will come under much more stress from business use than personal use.

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Hi. Note links (essentially file names, unless modified) are picked up as links in VoodooPad and DEVONthink (Mac), so the transition (if necessary) is a smooth one on the Mac. And, if you are willing to go one step further and put brackets [[ ]] around file names, nvALT (Mac) will also make links. Evernote has made it very easy to keep your data portable, so I wouldn't worry too much, but writing in markdown (treating your notes as plain text) will simplify the process even more if moving becomes necessary. Hopefully, Evernote's change in direction, though, won't cause you too much trouble.

Thanks GM. I'm on Windows and will be for the foreseeable future (tied to some apps only available on Windows).Guess I better stop modifying note links and just leave them as the name of the note to preserve maximum flexibility going forward.

Windows is a tough one, because personal information managers don't seem to be quite as popular as projects for developers. I imagine there is something out there, though, but the safest thing is probably not to modify the note links. Perhaps a Mac with Parallels (a way to seamlessly run Windows stuff) is in your future :)

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Ehm, so what about the announced price change in "early 2015". We're at the end of the first quarter and did not see any change in the price tag.

 

Was ist just a bluff from Phil Libin? 

 

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Ehm, so what about the announced price change in "early 2015". We're at the end of the first quarter and did not see any change in the price tag.

 

Was ist just a bluff from Phil Libin? 

 

Some users have gotten surveys on a new pricing structure which might well result in many users having a lower price OR continuing at the same premium price 

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I would not put much faith in a price decrease.

 

The opening sentence in the US edition of The Guardian:

 

"Cloud service Evernote is preparing to raise the price of its premium subscriptions in early 2015 from its current $5 a month, according to chief executive Phil Libin."

 


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He may be a very nice bloke, but I take pretty much everything that comes out of Mr Libin's mouth with a big bucket of salt. He says a lot of stuff just because it's going to generate media coverage.

 

Remember this is a company that doesn't spend money on advertising, but it puts a huge amount of effort into making sure it receives positive media coverage.

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I love Evernote, but I use it primarily as an archive now.  I used to use it as my primary work space, but it started losing huge sections of my notes on sync, and support couldn't help me even after extensive troubleshooting.  Additionally, the windows app crashes frequently, frustrating me to no end.  I moved my workspace to OneNote, and kept Evernote as a combination junk drawer, file cabinet, and secondary backup app for my blog posts.  If not for the tons of stuff I have in EN, plus the superior webclipping, I would just jump to ON entirely.  So far I'm content keeping both because it's easier than moving everything over.  I don't mind paying for it but if the price jumps too much then I can't justify keeping it.  

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GM, I don't agree with your statement that EN has made it easy to keep your data portable. Yes, apart from the enex format, notes can be exported in HTML & MHT formats, but importing these into other note-taking apps, whether they be wiki or non-wiki apps, results in notes that either cannot be edited or are unreadable. This applies to Windows. I do agree that writing in markdown is much better, and your personal strategy (if I remember well) to keep notes in plain text (with or without markdown) is the best way to keep portability optimised.

So Tavor's earlier comment that he/she wants to prepare for when jumping ship becomes necessary is pertinent.

 

Hi. Note links (essentially file names, unless modified) are picked up as links in VoodooPad and DEVONthink (Mac), so the transition (if necessary) is a smooth one on the Mac. And, if you are willing to go one step further and put brackets [[ ]] around file names, nvALT (Mac) will also make links. Evernote has made it very easy to keep your data portable, so I wouldn't worry too much, but writing in markdown (treating your notes as plain text) will simplify the process even more if moving becomes necessary. Hopefully, Evernote's change in direction, though, won't cause you too much trouble.

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GM, I don't agree with your statement that EN has made it easy to keep your data portable. Yes, apart from the enex format, notes can be exported in HTML & MHT formats, but importing these into other note-taking apps, whether they be wiki or non-wiki apps, results in notes that either cannot be edited or are unreadable. This applies to Windows. I do agree that writing in markdown is much better, and your personal strategy (if I remember well) to keep notes in plain text (with or without markdown) is the best way to keep portability optimised.

So Tavor's earlier comment that he/she wants to prepare for when jumping ship becomes necessary is pertinent.

 

Hi. Note links (essentially file names, unless modified) are picked up as links in VoodooPad and DEVONthink (Mac), so the transition (if necessary) is a smooth one on the Mac. And, if you are willing to go one step further and put brackets [[ ]] around file names, nvALT (Mac) will also make links. Evernote has made it very easy to keep your data portable, so I wouldn't worry too much, but writing in markdown (treating your notes as plain text) will simplify the process even more if moving becomes necessary. Hopefully, Evernote's change in direction, though, won't cause you too much trouble.

 

 

It seems no less difficult than other similar apps, and perhaps even easier.

 

Easy or difficult, though, I plan my exit strategy whenever I begin using any application, and in the case of Evernote, that means you have the universally recognized .html format which is easy to view, but maybe difficult to edit; hence, my preference for markdown.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy formatting their notes just right, incorporating multi-media, making use of note links, setting reminders, attaching tags, etc. However, every layer of complexity in any app is going to make transitioning out of it that much more difficult. I don't know how much we can expect Evernote to deal with this beyond the options they provide. It seems to me that the burden is mainly on other apps to handle the import properly.

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@GM: fully agree with what you say. The .html format is easy to view, but viewing is not the same as using. And being able to view your notes is not part of portability. Real portability is usability elsewhere, which is what you get with markdown.

So I don't disagree with your views or strategy, my point is to make it clear that Evernote does not make it any easier than other similar apps, and that there is no real portability.

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@GM: fully agree with what you say. The .html format is easy to view, but viewing is not the same as using. And being able to view your notes is not part of portability. Real portability is usability elsewhere, which is what you get with markdown.

So I don't disagree with your views or strategy, my point is to make it clear that Evernote does not make it any easier than other similar apps, and that there is no real portability.

 

I'm not sure if we are agreeing or disagreeing :)

 

I feel like Evernote makes things relatively straightforward. I was able to move in and out of it for a couple of years in just a few minutes for each migration. I've written about it elsewhere on the forums.

 

Outlook makes me think of something that is not very portable. I used to have a bunch of emails in it on Windows, exported them in the proprietary format, and now I cannot even read them using Outlook on my Mac. It is very unlikely that I will ever voluntarily return to Outlook because of this. Fortunately, I can open the files on my old Windows computer, export from there, and then access them. Technically, it is "portable," but only in the literal sense of the word.

 

If Evernote only allowed an .enex export, I suppose I would not consider it portable, but they make other options available. That seems about as "portable" as you are going to get, though one could argue about whether they ought to also have rich text, text, etc. The rest of the "portability" equation is up to the user. If users are expecting to move smoothly from one app to another without giving thought to the things that will be lost along the way (almost inevitable if you are using any of an app's unique features), then they are in for a nasty surprise with any app. 

 

Anyhow, as you said, real portability is plain text (using markdown makes it more bearable, in my opinion), but this is up to users, and it requires forethought. 

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