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Can't Read Shared Note Without Evernote Account -- Unacceptable

 

Just updated to EN Mac 6.0.6, and AFAIK you can't share a Note except via Work Chat, and the recipient can't view it without an Evernote account.  

  • This is totally unacceptable
  • I don't want to chat, I just want to share a Note
  • The recipient doesn't want (and will NOT create) an Evernote account -- they just want to read/view the Note as simply and quickly as possible.

Please respect the wishes of many, many of your users, and decouple sharing and Work Chat, and make shared Notes and Notebooks like they used to be -- visible in a web browser without Evernote, with an option to add to your (the recipient's) Evernote account.

 

Here's a screenshot of the recipient's email notification:

 

EN-Mac-606-Shared-Note-EMail.png

 

 

 

 

The public link option is still there as well as the original methods to publish to social media.  None of these require an Evernote account to login.  

https://www.evernote.com/l/AAwPzRgtEt9ElpTg2I9haBXPm2ZIeOjz1wg

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@ mcheng

These links do not work...

They do for me.

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For the umpteenth time, I hit the close box on a banner in Evernote telling me I should try Work Chat. No. No I should not. I work alone. I like working alone. I use Evernote to keep information about all my creative projects in one place. Why do I have to continuously close this message on my tablets and my phone?

 

 

 

Amazing to me how hard Evernote is working to turn it's vocal champions into the opposite - I often do sessions internally and to clients about digital tools - evernote was always on the list, now I mention it only if raised by a question and then I talk about the mistakes I think the company havemade.

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My question is simple, but one that I’m doubtful Evernote will acknowledge.

 

Why can’t we just disable it if we don’t need or like it? Why can’t we just customize the toolbar like in any other serious Mac app?

 

Here’s the relevant section of the OS X Human Interface Guidelines:

 

 

In general, allow users to show or hide the toolbar. Users might want to hide the toolbar to minimize distractions or reveal more of their content. (Note that you can cause the toolbar to hide automatically in a full-screen window.) The commands for showing and hiding the toolbar belong in the View menu. For more information about this menu, see The View Menu.

 

In general, let users customize the toolbar. Although the default toolbar should include the commands that most users want, you should let users customize this set of commands to support their individual working styles. In addition, users should be able to specify whether toolbar items are displayed as controls only, text only, or controls with text (by default, display both controls and text). Place the Customize Toolbar command in the View menu (for more information about this menu, see The View Menu). Although you can also allow users to adjust the size of toolbar items, most users don’t expect this capability (if you decide to do this, you must supply different sizes of toolbar icons).

 

Emphasis mine.

 

Why is this so hard for you to do?

 

What is the hidden reason behind disabling this common UI behaviour that is so important that you don’t mind alienating your staunchest and most loyal supporters?

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Evernote appears to be taking the stance on this that what their customers like/dislike is of no importance. Their responses have been interesting ( i m being polite).

It seems that they are not happy that people don’t like this change. Every interaction I have seen from them has been defensive and certainly not customer centric. There appears to be ego involved or some underlying reason they cannot undo this. Most people are at a loss but they do not appear to be willing to address it other than what is wrong with people that they don’t like it. It’s a shame as this is an amazing product but a lot of people are now seeking an alternative.

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Evernote is the only Mac app I regular use which doesn't allow me to customise the toolbar.  And now they've forced a fugly great button on there for a feature I will NEVER use, which replaced a button that I did use, and which (when the window is smaller) forces off the search bar which I use ALL THE TIME!

 

Absolutely ridiculous!

 

I'd bet the vast majority of Evernote users use it as a single user, so why the heck they have to keep ramming this work chat rubbish down our throat is beyond me.

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Reading between the lines, the single user (mainly free user) model is not driving enough revenue to be truly sustainable or to create the right environment for an IPO. So, the focus is pivoting towards business and business means more collaboration and so they believe they need collaborative elements like chat.

 

As to why they are so stubborn about the toolbar I have no idea, I'd guess they have some crummy custom code in there that would be a pain to change.

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As to why they are so stubborn about the toolbar I have no idea, I'd guess they have some crummy custom code in there that would be a pain to change.

 

That doesn't make sense to me.  The toolbar used to be fully customizable.

 

I think this stems from the philosophy of Evernote CEO Phil Libin, who has stated on more than one occasion that the user shouldn't be provided with options:

 

From http://www.theguardian.com/technology/appsblog/2012/jul/24/evernote-ux-privacy-developers-interview

 

Libin says this doesn't mean over-complicating Evernote or hitting users with a barrage of options and features – quite the opposite, in fact.

  
"When you're in a design session, if the answer is 'make that configurable, put in a preference for this', that's almost always not the right answer. It's the lazy way out: you're leaving it up to the user to do the work of figuring things out."

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As to why they are so stubborn about the toolbar I have no idea, I'd guess they have some crummy custom code in there that would be a pain to change.

 

That doesn't make sense to me.  The toolbar used to be fully customizable.

 

I think this stems from the philosophy of Evernote CEO Phil Libin, who has stated on more than one occasion that the user shouldn't be provided with options:

 

From http://www.theguardian.com/technology/appsblog/2012/jul/24/evernote-ux-privacy-developers-interview

 

Libin says this doesn't mean over-complicating Evernote or hitting users with a barrage of options and features – quite the opposite, in fact.

  
"When you're in a design session, if the answer is 'make that configurable, put in a preference for this', that's almost always not the right answer. It's the lazy way out: you're leaving it up to the user to do the work of figuring things out."

 

 

I think him saying that is disingenious. I mean, yes, he's right, and it sounds noble and quotable and makes him look good on the surface but with a closer look it’s just smoke and mirrors because

 

1) Evernote has a ton of preferences, and

2) when the choice you make for the user is driven by business motivations and not user satisfaction, that's when that kind of thinking becomes poisonous.

 

Like I’ve said many times before, if it’s a business thing, I will gladly fork over $10 a month just for the privilege of turning off that miserable Work Chat button. I can't be the only one.

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1) Evernote has a ton of preferences,

 

From my perspective, Evernote does NOT have a "ton of preferences".  It has the least number of preferences and configurable UI (like toolbars) of any Mac app that I have used.

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1) Evernote has a ton of preferences,

 

From my perspective, Evernote does NOT have a "ton of preferences".  It has the least number of preferences and configurable UI (like toolbars) of any Mac app that I have used.

 

 

Fair enough. But it's still far from minimalist in its UI.

 

Thing is, even Apple's toolbars are configurable, and Apple is the modern champion of that kind of "if it needs a preference you just make the choice" kind of thinking.

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How do  I get the hell rid of the whole chat feature     icons and all......is it possible that you actually took my favorite software and with one feature I can't disable forced me to go back to one note

'

you must provide an easy way for macs premium users to completely disable work chat

 

or I am gone

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I cannot believe that this decision has been made.. I have used Evernote for years now and have championed to people above any other app.. I find the email note button is one of the most used features as my company blocks the use of apps / websites such as Evernote due to data protection reasons. However If i need to forward meeting notes etc I have survived by using the email function.


 


Please please please add this back so it is easy to access - even as an option in the share drop down, not all hidden away in the menu system. 


 


Thanks


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It's as simple as this:  sharing and chatting are two different things.  I hate Work Chat.  Sharing is no longer simple or straightforward.  I used to sing Evernote praises from the rooftops.  Have recommended to dozens and dozens of clients.  No more.  I'm am so sad something I LOVED to use and recommend has been ruined.  Work Chat needs to go.  Bring simple sharing back.

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It's as simple as this:  sharing and chatting are two different things.  I hate Work Chat.  Sharing is no longer simple or straightforward.  I used to sing Evernote praises from the rooftops.  Have recommended to dozens and dozens of clients.  No more.  I'm am so sad something I LOVED to use and recommend has been ruined.  Work Chat needs to go.  Bring simple sharing back.

 

I agree that "sharing and chatting are two different things" and I think many others do as well.

 

Evernote, if you want to provide sharing within Work Chat, I don't think anyone would object as long as you ALSO provide sharing easy and without going through Work Chat.

 

It should be very clear to your now that forcing your users to go through Work Chat does not, and will not, cause them to use Work Chat as a true chat platform.  In fact, I think it is having just the opposite effect -- causing Evernote users, many of them long term and previously very happy users, to reject Work Chat out-of-hand.

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Our company uses a secure desktopenvironment (EN cant be installed). When I want to send a note to a colleague using my android-app I frequently accidentally share with Workchat. I found out how to share via email with a link, but I usually forget this after a month. It isnt the easiest way. Now my collegueas ask me to please stop using EN and use normal email like them! 

 

So please;

 

1. Can you make emailing with the android-app as intuitive as before (I'm a premiumuser since 2009, I really liked it)? 

2. When I use "Send to emailaddress", it seems to use Workchat. There is no feedback that says I used Workchat (so I think my colleague got the note). Can you fix that?

3. Can you tell me how to email a note without using a link from the android-app? 

 

Thank you, I hope you fix Evernote the way it was and make it possible to opt out on workchat. I hate it and will never use it. 

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I like it so far, a great start. What will be most helpful for chat is:

 

  1. Ability to pull in or view chat history when in a notebook or within a specifc note.
  2. Ability to tag conversations and assign to a specific notebook or note.

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I'm glad some of you like this feature. I LOATHE it. I hate that every time I share a note, the work chat window pops up. Would you please allow us to disable this feature which is completely useless for some users?

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Here's a real clear, simple, example of why we need to separate sharing from chatting:

 

This happens a lot.

 

Client, boss, or colleague sends an email requesting info on xyz topic.  Needs it for an external meeting soon.

What I need to be able to do quickly, is reply to that email and say:

  • Got you covered.
  • Here's a link to one of my Evernote Notes (or Notebooks) that provides what you asked for.
  • And:  The PW is same as before.  OR I'll txt you the PW.

Neither of us want, nor has time for a chat.

 

I need to go to the note or notebook, right-click and choose "Share (private)", and provide the recipient name or email of the recipient, and share permissions (default to read-only), and maybe a password for that recipient if I have not shared anything with that recipient before.

 

What would really be cool, is to have a one-time setup of sharing recipients:

  • Name
  • email
  • mobile phone
  • PW

So that when I want to share with a recipient, all I have to do is pick the recipients name in the sharing request (above), and Evernote does all the work:

  • Sends email to recipient with note/notebook title and link
  • Sends txt msg to recipient with PW

When the recipient clicks on the sharing link, I get notified by email (optional), by the Activity monitor in EN, and date/time stamp of access is recorded in the sharing record for that item.

 

More icing on the sharing cake

  • It would be very cool and respectful, if the sharing recipient had an option to view both shared notes and shared notebooks in a web browser.
  • Displaying a note like you do now.
  • Open a shared NB in the EN Web client, with NO account -- just for viewing
  • Provide option in notification email and after web display to open in the recipient's EN account
  • This would be really useful when the recipient wants to show the note/NB to someone else (or view in by projector) without having to open their own EN account that would expose confidential/sensitive info.

 

I hope this gives you guys at Evernote a more clear idea of what many of really need.

I think that if you will separate sharing from chatting, you  will eliminate a large percent of objections/complaints to Work Chat.  Just my opinion.   ;)

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Hi JMichael,

 

Thanks for the feedback.  We are looking at streamlining the sharing flow to make it more focused on sharing and less on chatting and it should feel roughly similar to what you are describing. Its already available on the mobile clients and we should be trickling it out across the desktop and web clients over the next few releases.  

 

When you see the feature on your client, please let us know if it works and what other changes you'd like.

 

When the recipient clicks on the sharing link, I get notified by email (optional), by the Activity monitor in EN, and date/time stamp of access is recorded in the sharing record for that item.

I believe when someone accesses a newly shared notebook an entry is added to the Activity feed (the little satellite dish icon) but I'm not sure what you mean by the "sharing record" for the item.  Some sort of read notification is on the roadmap but its not well defined at the moment.  I'll take your feedback as input for this feature.  

 

Thanks

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@mcheng:  Many thanks for your prompt and very responsive reply.  It is much appreciated.  I love your tone and willingness to engage us users in the design process.

 

By "date/time stamp of access is recorded in the sharing record for that item" here is what I mean:

  • Before Work Chat, when you right-clicked on a NB and selected "Sharing" it showed a popup of sharing info, including the recipients and permissions.
  • Now, when you select "Share" on a NB already shared, it opens Work Chat -- NOT GOOD and very confusing
  • What I would like to see for the right-click context menu is:  
    • New Share   [ONLY IF the NB has NOT been shared]
    • View/Edit Existing Share    [ONLY IF the NB has already been shared]
    • Work Chat 
  • Then when I view the "View/Edit Existing Share", I'd like to see a table of:
    • ​Recipient
    • Permissions
    • Date Shared
    • Date Accepted [by Recipient]

To compliment this, and make management of sharing over all a much better/easier process, I'd like:

  1. A Sharing Status window (from the View menu) that would show a table for all shared NBs and Notes
    (please make an independent, movable window so we can view sharing and main Note window at same time)
    • ​​Table Columns
      • NB or Note Title
      • Recipient
      • Date shared
      • Date accepted
      • Permissions
      • Last access by Recipient (if possible)
    • Be able to sort on any of these columns
    • Be able to make all sharing changes (add, remove, change permissions), including single action to remove NB/Note from sharing completely for all Recipients

Does this make sense to you?  Do you see how easy and NOT confusing this would make it for your users?

 

Again, many thanks for asking for our feedback.

 

Hi JMichael,

 

Thanks for the feedback.  We are looking at streamlining the sharing flow to make it more focused on sharing and less on chatting and it should feel roughly similar to what you are describing. Its already available on the mobile clients and we should be trickling it out across the desktop and web clients over the next few releases.  

 

When you see the feature on your client, please let us know if it works and what other changes you'd like.

 

When the recipient clicks on the sharing link, I get notified by email (optional), by the Activity monitor in EN, and date/time stamp of access is recorded in the sharing record for that item.

I believe when someone accesses a newly shared notebook an entry is added to the Activity feed (the little satellite dish icon) but I'm not sure what you mean by the "sharing record" for the item.  Some sort of read notification is on the roadmap but its not well defined at the moment.  I'll take your feedback as input for this feature.  

 

Thanks

 

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Hi JMichael,

 

The 2 desktop clients are going through a redesign of the notebook screen which should make accessing the share permissions much easier in the next few updates.  It should be much more intuitive to share the notebook, access the permissions, publish to business, etc and do much of what you suggest.  The only thing I can't promise are the details about the date shared, date accepted and last accessed fields you requested.  I'll pass these along to the Mac & Win PMs for consideration.

 

Thanks.

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@mcheng:  That sounds very promising.  Thanks again.

 

I forgot to mention one request that I hope is easy to do:  Please make the NBs that are shared EASY to identify visually.  A different color, like med-dark green, would be great!  But something that is easy to see for the visually challenged.   ;)

 

OK, I'm gonna go out a limb here, and ask for one more thing (aka Jobs):  How about a filter that shows ONLY shared NBs in the Left Panel, NB view, and in the Notes list?

 

OK, I'll be quiet now.  My Christmas wish list is complete (at least for this month  :ph34r: )

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@mcheng:  Just wanted to provide you with a visual indication of the problem with identifying the Shared/Joined Notebooks:

 

EN-Mac-606-NB-List-SharedNB.png         EN-Win-583-NB-List-JoinedNB.png

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@mcheng:  I'm just having fun now, and thought I'd throw something out for illustration purposes.

 

I'm sure your UI designers can do much better, but here's one rendition of, IMO from a User's POV, of how Shared, Joined, and Selected Notebooks could be clearly indicated:

 

EN-Mac-606-Shared-NB-UI.png

 

I think the indicators would be pretty obvious to most users.

My thought process was:

  1. Choose an icon/color that should be intuitive to most users
  2. Obviously (and that's the point), "S" is for shared, and "J" is for joined
  3. Red is for caution
    1. I want to be instantly reminded of what NB I have shared when I look at my screen
    2. When I first shared the NB, I probably make sure there were NOT any sensitive Note in the NB
    3. But over time, I might forget I had shared it, and add some Notes I really don't want shared.
    4. Hopefully the RED will be like a stoplight to me, reminding me that I have shared that NB
  4. Green is good
    1. Generally, joining a shared NB is a good thing with little downside for me
    2. Still, I want to be able to quickly ID these joined NB, because that's where treasure might lie.  :-)
  5. Icon design
    1. OK, using a simple character is pretty boring.
    2. What little designer blood I have in me caused me to initially go out and search for cool sharing icons
    3. And, I actually found quite a few.  Of course, if I was a real designer, I'd roll my own
    4. I tried a few, but by the time I shrunk them down to fit on the NB list, they were almost unreadable, and no longer instantly imparted any message to me
    5. So finally I tried something simple, just a bold, upper case letter
    6. The message is instantly clear, even if it won't win any design awards.
  6. Indicator of Being Selected
    1. I think the Apple UI design guidelines call for adding a background color to indicate selection
    2. IAC, it jumps out to me much quicker and clearer than just changing the text color.
    3. And now, if you change the text color for shared and joined NB, then we need a different indicator for selected.

I know most UI designers hate to get design suggestions from anyone, let alone their users.  After all, what do we know about design????

But I hope the Evernote designer will accept this quick-and-dirty design in the spirit in which it was intended -- just giving some feedback on what a non-designer finds easy to read and understand.

 

I'm sure they can take this and make it much cooler while retaining the readability and communication to us end users.

 

I hope you guys have fun with this, and feel free to laugh at my poor attempt at UI design.

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@mcheng:  I'm just having fun now, and thought I'd throw something out for illustration purposes.

 

I'm sure your UI designers can do much better, but here's one rendition of, IMO from a User's POV, of how Shared, Joined, and Selected Notebooks could be clearly indicated:

 

EN-Mac-606-Shared-NB-UI.png

 

I think the indicators would be pretty obvious to most users.

My thought process was:

  1. Choose an icon/color that should be intuitive to most users
  2. Obviously (and that's the point), "S" is for shared, and "J" is for joined
  3. Red is for caution
    1. I want to be instantly reminded of what NB I have shared when I look at my screen
    2. When I first shared the NB, I probably make sure there were NOT any sensitive Note in the NB
    3. But over time, I might forget I had shared it, and add some Notes I really don't want shared.
    4. Hopefully the RED will be like a stoplight to me, reminding me that I have shared that NB
  4. Green is good
    1. Generally, joining a shared NB is a good thing with little downside for me
    2. Still, I want to be able to quickly ID these joined NB, because that's where treasure might lie.  :-)
  5. Icon design
    1. OK, using a simple character is pretty boring.
    2. What little designer blood I have in me caused me to initially go out and search for cool sharing icons
    3. And, I actually found quite a few.  Of course, if I was a real designer, I'd roll my own
    4. I tried a few, but by the time I shrunk them down to fit on the NB list, they were almost unreadable, and no longer instantly imparted any message to me
    5. So finally I tried something simple, just a bold, upper case letter
    6. The message is instantly clear, even if it won't win any design awards.
  6. Indicator of Being Selected
    1. I think the Apple UI design guidelines call for adding a background color to indicate selection
    2. IAC, it jumps out to me much quicker and clearer than just changing the text color.
    3. And now, if you change the text color for shared and joined NB, then we need a different indicator for selected.

I know most UI designers hate to get design suggestions from anyone, let alone their users.  After all, what do we know about design????

But I hope the Evernote designer will accept this quick-and-dirty design in the spirit in which it was intended -- just giving some feedback on what a non-designer finds easy to read and understand.

 

I'm sure they can take this and make it much cooler while retaining the readability and communication to us end users.

 

I hope you guys have fun with this, and feel free to laugh at my poor attempt at UI design.

 

 

JMichael,

Bless you for taking so much of your own time and energy articulating why SO many users are frustrated with the new Work Chat sharing function. To my mind, it's ridiculous that this kind of effort has to come from USERS when Evernote clearly has a design and Ui team that can't seem to figure it out. Perhaps you should go on the EN payroll with a title of "Regular User Who Just Wants Things To Be Easy."

 

Truly, it's beyond me why a Ui team has had such a hard time getting this right. Are they over-thinking it? Are they more concerned with the way things LOOK than the way people USE the tool? (ding ding ding my money is on that). Here's a clue. Users care more about how something WORKS than how it looks. We're doing nutty things like trying to run businesses and whatnot, so call me crazy but every tool I use has to work easily and intuitively. I would love to use Evernote to share information with my clients and my work team but I don't. I've relegated Evernote to a tool for two things:

1. Saving web pages I may want to find again

2. Annotating screen shots to include in emails

 

It's funny how this whole thing has played out... let's say you go to your favorite restaurant you've been going to for years. But suddenly nothing that comes out of the kitchen tastes good anymore. You keep trying but something just isn't right. So YOU go back into the kitchen and instruct the chef on how to make your dinner because although he's the supposed "expert" he just can't seem to make food that people actually want to eat. 

 

Thank you for putting so much effort into communicating with EN on these most obvious usability issues. One wonders where it will end up, but as of right now, I am no longer recommending it to my clients until I see what happens.

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I'm a premium user and have been for a while.  Can premium users turn off work chat?  It's worse than useless.

 

Evernote started off great, and is going downhill.  Reminds me of Microsoft word - complicated to death, and ignoring core functionality.

 

I've stopped recommending it to people, and started pondering One Note.  I hope the evernote we loved comes back

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Hi JMichael,

 

Thanks for clarifying I thought you meant the actual notebook screen vs the left navigation pane.  I'll forward your input to the desktop PMs and designers for consideration on the roadmap.

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Hi JMichael,

 

Thanks for clarifying I thought you meant the actual notebook screen vs the left navigation pane.  I'll forward your input to the desktop PMs and designers for consideration on the roadmap.

 

Thanks mcheng.

 

Shared/Joined Icons, colors, and right-click should be applied to the Notebook view as well.   :)

Consistency is a good thing.   ;)

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@mcheng:  I'm just having fun now, and thought I'd throw something out for illustration purposes.

 

I'm sure your UI designers can do much better, but here's one rendition of, IMO from a User's POV, of how Shared, Joined, and Selected Notebooks could be clearly indicated:

 

EN-Mac-606-Shared-NB-UI.png

 

I think the indicators would be pretty obvious to most users.

My thought process was:

  1. Choose an icon/color that should be intuitive to most users
  2. Obviously (and that's the point), "S" is for shared, and "J" is for joined
  3. Red is for caution
    1. I want to be instantly reminded of what NB I have shared when I look at my screen
    2. When I first shared the NB, I probably make sure there were NOT any sensitive Note in the NB
    3. But over time, I might forget I had shared it, and add some Notes I really don't want shared.
    4. Hopefully the RED will be like a stoplight to me, reminding me that I have shared that NB
  4. Green is good
    1. Generally, joining a shared NB is a good thing with little downside for me
    2. Still, I want to be able to quickly ID these joined NB, because that's where treasure might lie.  :-)
  5. Icon design
    1. OK, using a simple character is pretty boring.
    2. What little designer blood I have in me caused me to initially go out and search for cool sharing icons
    3. And, I actually found quite a few.  Of course, if I was a real designer, I'd roll my own
    4. I tried a few, but by the time I shrunk them down to fit on the NB list, they were almost unreadable, and no longer instantly imparted any message to me
    5. So finally I tried something simple, just a bold, upper case letter
    6. The message is instantly clear, even if it won't win any design awards.
  6. Indicator of Being Selected
    1. I think the Apple UI design guidelines call for adding a background color to indicate selection
    2. IAC, it jumps out to me much quicker and clearer than just changing the text color.
    3. And now, if you change the text color for shared and joined NB, then we need a different indicator for selected.

I know most UI designers hate to get design suggestions from anyone, let alone their users.  After all, what do we know about design????

But I hope the Evernote designer will accept this quick-and-dirty design in the spirit in which it was intended -- just giving some feedback on what a non-designer finds easy to read and understand.

 

I'm sure they can take this and make it much cooler while retaining the readability and communication to us end users.

 

I hope you guys have fun with this, and feel free to laugh at my poor attempt at UI design.

 

As always thanks for the suggestions and feedback.  Can you explain or give more color regarding your goal for seeing which notebooks are shared vs joined and the actions you might take after seeing this break out.  I think I can guess but I want to make sure I understand the big picture from your perspective.

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As always thanks for the suggestions and feedback.  Can you explain or give more color regarding your goal for seeing which notebooks are shared vs joined and the actions you might take after seeing this break out.  I think I can guess but I want to make sure I understand the big picture from your perspective.

 

 

Hi Marcus,

 

Sure, thanks for asking.

 

I'll try to expand on what I already posted:

 

  1. Red is for caution
    1. I want to be instantly reminded of what NB I have shared when I look at my screen
    2. When I first shared the NB, I probably make sure there were NOT any sensitive Note in the NB
    3. But over time, I might forget I had shared it, and add some Notes I really don't want shared.
    4. Hopefully the RED will be like a stoplight to me, reminding me that I have shared that NB
  2. Green is good
    1. Generally, joining a shared NB is a good thing with little downside for me
    2. Still, I want to be able to quickly ID these joined NB, because that's where treasure might lie.  :-)

 

One of the real dangers with having shared a NB is that I forget I shared it.  You know, the old "out of sight, out of mind".

So, if I share a NB today, 3-6 months from now when I on to other stuff, I might forget I have shared it.

And so, when I'm assigning a NB to a sensitive Note, I might pick the Shared NB without remembering it is shared.

And so, if that Note contains sensitive info, I could be causing problems.

 

As I think through this, I realize that at the Notebook assignment time, is also when I really need to be made aware of which NBs are shared, so I don't pick one by mistake.  So the icons/colors I showed above would also be very helpful, maybe more critical, to be shown in the Notebook dropdown lists (like in the Note itself, and above the Notes list).

 

Also, sometimes we need to share a NB for a limited period.  Seeing the clearly marked NBs with icon/color prompts me to consider if I need to unshare the NB.

 

This is not unlike sharing folders on your PC/Mac.  They are usually clearly marked with a distinctive icon for the folder.

 

The distinctive icon/color for Joined NBs is also very help.  It let us quickly find/see NBs we have joined, which is useful because mostly likely we joined for a reason, and might need to go there often.

 

But then time goes on, and our need for that Joined NB is gone.  So, to remove clutter (Evernote's favorite word  ;) ), seeing the Joined NBs  that I no longer need quickly jump out at me is a great thing to have.

 

You know, this trend, perhaps started by Apple, to move away from colors to greyscale is very interesting.  Many, many years ago when color monitors were expensive, we had to work hard to justify buying them.  Then extensive UX studies were made, and they found that colors are not just there for aesthetics, but, properly design, can actually impart a lot of information much, much quicker than B&W.   Combine color with well-design icons, then the user can get the message much, much quicker than by reading text.

 

While I'm here, please let me put in a request for a closely related need:  Local Notebooks.  Please add distinctive icon/color the Local Notebooks as well.

 

So, in a complicated, busy, fast-moving world, having good visual cues are a great help.

You guys want us to spend our entire day in Evernote, then making it easy to read will go a long way.

 

I hopes this helps you understand our needs.  Please feel free to ask more questions if needed.

Thanks again for asking.

 

Best Regards,

JMichael

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JMichael you said: 

 

You know, this trend, perhaps started by Apple, to move away from colors to greyscale is very interesting.  Many, many years ago when color monitors were expensive, we had to work hard to justify buying them.  Then extensive UX studies were made, and they found that colors are not just there for aesthetics, but, properly design, can actually impart a lot of information much, much quicker than B&W.   Combine color with well-design icons, then the user can get the message much, much quicker than by reading text.

 

 

While I'm here, please let me put in a request for a closely related need:  Local Notebooks.  Please add distinctive icon/color the Local Notebooks as well.

 

So, in a complicated, busy, fast-moving world, having good visual cues are a great help.

You guys want us to spend our entire day in Evernote, then making it easy to read will go a long way.

 

------------------------

 

AMEN AMEN AMEN! Visual cues are MASSIVELY important, regardless of your individual work style.

 

I want to know *at a glance* if a notebook has been shared and with a single click I'd like to know WITH WHOM and maybe even WHEN. Hmmmm... how about that?

 

Also, I would like to know *at a glance* if a notebook is one that I created or if it's one that I joined and with a single click maybe learn WHEN. Hmmmm....

 

I'd love to know *at a glance* if a notebook is LOCAL or synced. Hmmmm...

JMichael, I have to hand it to you. You are SO much more kind and patient than I have been on this forum regarding the interface redesign, the removal of the color cues and the flattening of the interface in terms of the lack of s
keumorphism. I know it's all en vogue to have this flat design but I find it alienating and unfamiliar.

 

And don't get me started on how ridiculous the idea of grey-on-slightly-different-grey-on-white color scheme is. Can you imagine if STOP signs were grey on white? How about speed limit signs or maybe the dashboard in your car? Oh yeah wouldn't it be nice to have to strain to see how fast you're going or how much gas you have left in your tank as you're flying down the highway? Oooh lemme see, is that grey gas needle on the white background at half a tank or a quarter? Wow I just can't tell...maybe I should look at the road but I think I may be low on gas, so lemme look again and see if BLAM!! Whoopsy. Rear-ended that dude at the grey and white stop sign.

 

Seriously. Sometimes I just shake my head. 

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Hi JMichael,

 

The 2 desktop clients are going through a redesign of the notebook screen which should make accessing the share permissions much easier in the next few updates.  It should be much more intuitive to share the notebook, access the permissions, publish to business, etc and do much of what you suggest.  The only thing I can't promise are the details about the date shared, date accepted and last accessed fields you requested.  I'll pass these along to the Mac & Win PMs for consideration.

 

Thanks.

 

Hello mcheng.  Can you provide some info on estimated timing of the future desktop client updates?  I've got about six weeks left on a 3 month subscription that came with a Moleskine notebook.  I love the potential of this app.  But, I can't say that I will be renewing unless I see some steps in the right direction in regards to sharing.  

 

I think Evernote has proven that there is value in the overall concept.  But, the UX needs work IMO.  The door is open for a competitor to take your lunch money.

 

Frankly, I wonder if Evernote team members actually use the app on a regular basis.  Not intending to be a jerk.  But, it is curious how Work Chat in its present form made it through user testing and into production.

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Dear mcheng,

 

I hope you will forgive me for pointing out that while your engagement with the community is laudable, you are very selective in what you acknowledge of this thread.

 

What is Evernote's response to the sizeable group of people objecting to the fact that we cannot be given the option to disable Work Chat, even if we are willing to pay for said option?

 

Regards

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Dear mcheng,

 

I hope you will forgive me for pointing out that while your engagement with the community is laudable, you are very selective in what you acknowledge of this thread.

 

What is Evernote's response to the sizeable group of people objecting to the fact that we cannot be given the option to disable Work Chat, even if we are willing to pay for said option?

 

Regards

 

Can you be more specific regarding how you want to disable it?  Are you on the Mac and would like to turn it off in the toolbar?  If so I think you'll be very happy soon...

 

 

Hi JMichael,

 

The 2 desktop clients are going through a redesign of the notebook screen which should make accessing the share permissions much easier in the next few updates.  It should be much more intuitive to share the notebook, access the permissions, publish to business, etc and do much of what you suggest.  The only thing I can't promise are the details about the date shared, date accepted and last accessed fields you requested.  I'll pass these along to the Mac & Win PMs for consideration.

 

Thanks.

 

Hello mcheng.  Can you provide some info on estimated timing of the future desktop client updates?  I've got about six weeks left on a 3 month subscription that came with a Moleskine notebook.  I love the potential of this app.  But, I can't say that I will be renewing unless I see some steps in the right direction in regards to sharing.  

 

I think Evernote has proven that there is value in the overall concept.  But, the UX needs work IMO.  The door is open for a competitor to take your lunch money.

 

Frankly, I wonder if Evernote team members actually use the app on a regular basis.  Not intending to be a jerk.  But, it is curious how Work Chat in its present form made it through user testing and into production.

 

 

Work chat is used extensively within Evernote the company and I think works really well but a key difference might be that everyone is in the Evernote business which might change the mindset of people trying to share and the way we use the product.

 

If you're looking for notebook view updates, the Windows client made the change awhile ago.  On the Mac we'll be releasing the 6.0.7 beta hopefully soon and you'll be able to turn on the new notebook view that shows more information at a glance. 

 

If you're asking for new sharing flows, I'm guessing Windows will release updates sooner than Mac because we're still working through some big challenges but sharing is really important to us as a company and it's a top priority so we'll release updates as soon as we can.  I can't provide specifics but it's definitely something we're spending a lot of time on as you can tell by how active we are in these forums on this topic.

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Dear mcheng,

 

I hope you will forgive me for pointing out that while your engagement with the community is laudable, you are very selective in what you acknowledge of this thread.

 

What is Evernote's response to the sizeable group of people objecting to the fact that we cannot be given the option to disable Work Chat, even if we are willing to pay for said option?

 

Regards

 

Can you be more specific regarding how you want to disable it?  Are you on the Mac and would like to turn it off in the toolbar?  If so I think you'll be very happy soon...

 

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it.

 

I can’t speak for everyone who wants to be able to disable it, but for me it would be enough to just be able to remove it from the toolbar. That would, indeed, make me very happy.

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Dear mcheng,

 

I hope you will forgive me for pointing out that while your engagement with the community is laudable, you are very selective in what you acknowledge of this thread.

 

What is Evernote's response to the sizeable group of people objecting to the fact that we cannot be given the option to disable Work Chat, even if we are willing to pay for said option?

 

Regards

 

Can you be more specific regarding how you want to disable it?  Are you on the Mac and would like to turn it off in the toolbar?  If so I think you'll be very happy soon...

 

 

Hi JMichael,

 

The 2 desktop clients are going through a redesign of the notebook screen which should make accessing the share permissions much easier in the next few updates.  It should be much more intuitive to share the notebook, access the permissions, publish to business, etc and do much of what you suggest.  The only thing I can't promise are the details about the date shared, date accepted and last accessed fields you requested.  I'll pass these along to the Mac & Win PMs for consideration.

 

Thanks.

 

Hello mcheng.  Can you provide some info on estimated timing of the future desktop client updates?  I've got about six weeks left on a 3 month subscription that came with a Moleskine notebook.  I love the potential of this app.  But, I can't say that I will be renewing unless I see some steps in the right direction in regards to sharing.  

 

I think Evernote has proven that there is value in the overall concept.  But, the UX needs work IMO.  The door is open for a competitor to take your lunch money.

 

Frankly, I wonder if Evernote team members actually use the app on a regular basis.  Not intending to be a jerk.  But, it is curious how Work Chat in its present form made it through user testing and into production.

 

 

Work chat is used extensively within Evernote the company and I think works really well but a key difference might be that everyone is in the Evernote business which might change the mindset of people trying to share and the way we use the product.

 

If you're looking for notebook view updates, the Windows client made the change awhile ago.  On the Mac we'll be releasing the 6.0.7 beta hopefully soon and you'll be able to turn on the new notebook view that shows more information at a glance. 

 

If you're asking for new sharing flows, I'm guessing Windows will release updates sooner than Mac because we're still working through some big challenges but sharing is really important to us as a company and it's a top priority so we'll release updates as soon as we can.  I can't provide specifics but it's definitely something we're spending a lot of time on as you can tell by how active we are in these forums on this topic.

 

 

Thanks very much for the reply.  Not necessarily what I wanted to hear.  But, I appreciate the honesty.

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Is there are way to get rid of the Work chat button and promote email back to as a core option in the Mac and IOS version. ?  No Disrespect but it seems to me that the feature is a hack to get more users signed up. Why not enable EN loyal users the option to edit the UI to get rid so we can it (Not just in  the Toolbar but within note and in the IOS version).  At least it would appease annoyed user such as myself the option to hid this redundant feature.  

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Is there are way to get rid of the Work chat button and promote email back to as a core option in the Mac and IOS version. ?  No Disrespect but it seems to me that the feature is a hack to get more users signed up. Why not enable EN loyal users the option to edit the UI to get rid so we can it (Not just in  the Toolbar but within note and in the IOS version).  At least it would appease annoyed user such as myself the option to hid this redundant feature.  

 

We've added a customizable toolbar in 6.0.7 so you can configure it anyway you want.  Email is quickly available by right clicking a note in the note list.  We have basic toolbar customization now but are considering future enhancements where we would allow you to add your favorite feature but this is not currently available.

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@Marcus:  Thanks again for the customizable toolbar.  Looking forward to seeing many tools/buttons that we can add.

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One thing that really bothers me about Work Chat is that when I share a link to a note that has already been shared, it opens in a the browser. So, for example, I have a notebook shared with my wife. I want to make a comment on a note within that notebook, so I use Work Chat. However, to reference the note, I want to provide her with a link. Why wouldn't the link open in the app she's using (similar to how it works if I put that link in another note)?

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Hi derrickpsu,

 

I wanted to clarify how you are getting the link to your note in the chat thread.  See this screenshot:  https://www.evernote.com/l/AAxRPbPvyaNKo50anw0EXcG1d76m_grnt6o

 

The "Copy Public Link" item will generate a link like the one above which will open in a browser by default.  However the "Share" button should put a specially formatted link in the chat thread which should open in a separate Evernote window for the desktop apps but not in a browser.

 

If you could elaborate on what you're doing and on which platform I may be able to point out what may be going wrong or worse case file a bug with the appropriate PM.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

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Is there are way to get rid of the Work chat button and promote email back to as a core option in the Mac and IOS version. ?  No Disrespect but it seems to me that the feature is a hack to get more users signed up. Why not enable EN loyal users the option to edit the UI to get rid so we can it (Not just in  the Toolbar but within note and in the IOS version).  At least it would appease annoyed user such as myself the option to hid this redundant feature.  

 

We've added a customizable toolbar in 6.0.7 so you can configure it anyway you want.  Email is quickly available by right clicking a note in the note list.  We have basic toolbar customization now but are considering future enhancements where we would allow you to add your favorite feature but this is not currently available.

 

We can remove it from the Toolbar in the Mac Version, we can't remove it from the Note itself, we can't it remove it in the IOS Version, we can't remove it from widget in the IOS Version. why ist it so hard to understand that even if there is an majority who use the Work Chat, there are users who don't. I work for myself, i never will have the use for this feature, so please let me deactivate it. 

For weeks my EN-Apps prompted me hints for the Workchat although i'm premium User and dont want ads. Now the Macversion has a non removable item in the Menulist. 

It's annoying!

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@mcheng:
 
Back in Feb, you asked for my feedback on how to improve the sharing UI.
 
Have you made any changes as a result of this feedback?  Any planned?

 

 

Hi JMichael,

 

The 2 desktop clients are going through a redesign of the notebook screen which should make accessing the share permissions much easier in the next few updates.  It should be much more intuitive to share the notebook, access the permissions, publish to business, etc and do much of what you suggest.  The only thing I can't promise are the details about the date shared, date accepted and last accessed fields you requested.  I'll pass these along to the Mac & Win PMs for consideration.

 

Thanks.

 

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Hi derrickpsu,

 

I wanted to clarify how you are getting the link to your note in the chat thread.  See this screenshot:  https://www.evernote.com/l/AAxRPbPvyaNKo50anw0EXcG1d76m_grnt6o

 

The "Copy Public Link" item will generate a link like the one above which will open in a browser by default.  However the "Share" button should put a specially formatted link in the chat thread which should open in a separate Evernote window for the desktop apps but not in a browser.

 

If you could elaborate on what you're doing and on which platform I may be able to point out what may be going wrong or worse case file a bug with the appropriate PM.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

Hi mcheng. I think the confusion is when the notebook is already shared. I don't want to re-share a note with a person who already can see that note because of it being in a shared notebook. I'd rather just mention it, same pattern as what I would do in other notes (e.g. let's say I wanted to make a 'Table of Contents' note)--grab the public link and put it in the new note. In that scenario, the application is smart enough to know I want to open it inside the app, not the browser. In general, is there ever a time that I would want to go to the browser version of the note if I'm already in the app? I can see this being the case if I email someone and they open the link in an email application, for example, but not from within the app.

 

If 'sharing' the note is the only option (even though it's already shared), that seems like that'll work for what I need, but I still think it'd be worth your UX/dev teams looking into eliminating some of the friction of being sent to the browser, logging in, and so on.

 

Hope that helps! Let me know if you need any further clarification.

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Anyone know how to turn off the popup notice asking me to try Evernote Chat for Work on my Windows 7 computer, other than uninstalling Evernote from my computer? There are only two options in the popup - Try it, or Remind me later.

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Anyone know how to turn off the popup notice asking me to try Evernote Chat for Work on my Windows 7 computer, other than uninstalling Evernote from my computer? There are only two options in the popup - Try it, or Remind me later.

There's likely a little "X" in the corner. Dismissing it should dismiss it permanently (well, until the next time you do a fresh Evernote install, should you ever need to do so). 

Or click "try it" and don't actually do anything. 

 

(Haven't seen these popups, or they are different on Mac). 

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Anyone know how to turn off the popup notice asking me to try Evernote Chat for Work on my Windows 7 computer, other than uninstalling Evernote from my computer? There are only two options in the popup - Try it, or Remind me later.

There's likely a little "X" in the corner. Dismissing it should dismiss it permanently (well, until the next time you do a fresh Evernote install, should you ever need to do so). 

Or click "try it" and don't actually do anything. 

 

(Haven't seen these popups, or they are different on Mac). 

 

There is no "X" in the corner.  This thing seems to appear at least once a day and it freezes my computer for 2-3 minutes before it finally lets me click the "later" button --- which is the only option for getting rid of the advertisement.  Also, ironically, EN will not operate until you click "later."  For instance, I wanted to use EN to take a screen clip of the advertisement and could not because EN is frozen until you deal with Work Chat.  Apparently advertising work chat is a higher priority for Evernote than any other feature of its software, which becomes disabled in order to make their ad even more aggressive.  Truly a bad sign for a company if they are this desparate to force a feature down our throats.

 

This ad appears even when I am not using evernote so it is the first example I'm aware of where EN is actively pushing ads onto my Windows machine without my consent and disrupting other programs and windows itself.  I've never experienced any software that was not considered malware that actively displayed ads even when not using the software -- it's absolutely ourageous.  Apparently the only way to get rid of it is to uninstall Evernote.  

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Anyone know how to turn off the popup notice asking me to try Evernote Chat for Work on my Windows 7 computer, other than uninstalling Evernote from my computer? There are only two options in the popup - Try it, or Remind me later.

There's likely a little "X" in the corner. Dismissing it should dismiss it permanently (well, until the next time you do a fresh Evernote install, should you ever need to do so). 

Or click "try it" and don't actually do anything. 

 

(Haven't seen these popups, or they are different on Mac). 

 

There is no "X" in the corner.  This thing seems to appear at least once a day and it freezes my computer for 2-3 minutes before it finally lets me click the "later" button --- which is the only option for getting rid of the advertisement.  Also, ironically, EN will not operate until you click "later."  For instance, I wanted to use EN to take a screen clip of the advertisement and could not because EN is frozen until you deal with Work Chat.  Apparently advertising work chat is a higher priority for Evernote than any other feature of its software, which becomes disabled in order to make their ad even more aggressive.  Truly a bad sign for a company if they are this desparate to force a feature down our throats.

 

This ad appears even when I am not using evernote so it is the first example I'm aware of where EN is actively pushing ads onto my Windows machine without my consent and disrupting other programs and windows itself.  I've never experienced any software that was not considered malware that actively displayed ads even when not using the software -- it's absolutely ourageous.  Apparently the only way to get rid of it is to uninstall Evernote.  

 

Strange, I just saw another person complaining about an evernote-related ad appearing when Evernote was not running. Recently, on the Mac side of things, we just experienced a bug/overzealousness in which premium users were presented with hard-to-dismiss popover ad and a persistent sidebar ad for Evernote Business. 

 

I suspect the problems Windows users are experiencing are likely not intentional, or at least, if they were intentional, will be rolled back, as has happened on Mac. 

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Are you still considering adding an "Email note..." button to the toolbar? I just don't have any use for "Share...". The "Email note..." button got lots of use from me in the past, but now I just copy and paste my note contents into an email, which sucks, but it's all I'm left with.

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Are you still considering adding an "Email note..." button to the toolbar? I just don't have any use for "Share...". The "Email note..." button got lots of use from me in the past, but now I just copy and paste my note contents into an email, which sucks, but it's all I'm left with.

You can still email notes, it just isn't present in the toolbar (And never has been, at least on the Mac). If you mean the Menu bar, then it is also still there, see the screenshot:

https://www.evernote.com/l/ABnpcizkQXxBDbpDr-a2KLE8zhHHla68G8Q

 

You can use your computers System Preferences>Keyboard to create a keyboard shortcut for that command if you need to use that function on a regular basis and don't want to click through the menus. 

 

If you're on a windows machine, I don't think you can create custom keyboard shortcuts, at least not natively in Windows, so you'll be stuck clicking through the menu.

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Hi, all  evernote experts, 

 

I have some questions below, can anyone tell me how to do ?

1.)  how to create many multiple work chat with a same evernote user ?  I prefer to have different work chat in different task/note we are going to discuss.

2.) How to recall a message if i sent wrongly.  this feature can be seen in Korea IM apps  'LINE" 

 

I looking forward to yours reply.

thanks

Goh

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