Jump to content

Recommended Posts

One decision I made years ago was to work in plain text. I made it for many reasons. But, chief among them was portability.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=14

Moving from one app to another is a relatively painless task if you write in Markdown, and you'll be able to print however you'd like, I suppose, because you can control everything. I went paperless years ago as well, so I wouldn't know about printing and page numbers, though.

And, because plain text is the lingua franca among computers, it is easy to find an app (even notepad, if you'd like) to handle your notes.If you're going back to basics, I wouldn't do Word, I'd do plain text.

 

Howdy, Chris:

 

Worthy article.

 

Problem for me is... PLAIN TEXT... is a block of black text... which offers diminished VISUAL ACUITY.

 

COLOR CODING... is invaluable to me in regards to... annotating notes... categorizing concepts... so that upon a later review my eye can speed scan a note... and quickly find what I'm looking for and understand the conceptual ideas laid out in 1/10 the time vs. reading BLACK plain text.

 

From a PORTABILITY perspective... no doubt plain text has more going for it!  LOL!

 

Poor color coding examples above... but the enhanced visual acuity is quite obvious.  :)

 

 

This issue may compel me to be an EN indentured servant for the unforeseen future!!!???

 

 

Appreciate! Point well noted!

 

~ Alan

Share this post


Link to post

GM, limiting your EN Notes to plain text *may* provide the ultimate in portability, but, IMO, HTML is a very close second, if not just as good.  Every note-taking Mac or Win app I know of, except for those dedicated to solely plain text, that accepts text input will accept HTML.  And most, if not all, of those that are restricted to plain text will convert HTML to plain text.  If not, there are plenty of utilities to convert HTML to plain text.

 

IAC, not being able to use HTML with all the great formatting and linking it provides, would so severely limit my notes as to make them be of very, very, limited usefulness.

 

While as of today their may not be a single app that can replace Evernote, I believe all of the top contenders do accept HTML.

 

 

One decision I made years ago was to work in plain text. I made it for many reasons. But, chief among them was portability.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

GM, limiting your EN Notes to plain text *may* provide the ultimate in portability, but, IMO, HTML is a very close second, if not just as good.  Every note-taking Mac or Win app I know of, except for those dedicated to solely plain text, that accepts text input will accept HTML.  And most, if not all, of those that are restricted to plain text will convert HTML to plain text.  If not, there are plenty of utilities to convert HTML to plain text.

 

IAC, not being able to use HTML with all the great formatting and linking it provides, would so severely limit my notes as to make them be of very, very, limited usefulness.

 

While as of today their may not be a single app that can replace Evernote, I believe all of the top contenders do accept HTML.

 

JMichael:

 

Good point... and HTML is a lesser import option.

 

Another point to consider is...

  • Evernote is the current 800 LB gorilla...
  • which potentially could warrant many or most future contenders to provide for robust EN importing

 

~ Alan

Share this post


Link to post

You'll want to use the best format for your particular use case. I've been pretty pleased with plain text and its flexibility -- you can even have images and attachments show up in it if you want.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=839

 

Sometimes, you can't make it work for your situation, though. For example, a lot of the cool plain text features that I mention at the link there are possible with iOS (if you sync through Dropbox to Notesy), but one of the most important ones (internal note links) isn't. This could be a major problem for people working with mobile. I figure, if you are going to be putting your stuff unencrypted into the cloud anyhow, then you ought to use Evernote, because it has note links, images, colors, and all of the other fun stuff that you and JM mentioned. It's probably the best cross-platform personal wiki that exists right now, though they have really not developed this aspect of the app as much as I would like, and probably won't with the turn to Business. A shame, really, because the links are what makes the "external brain" vision really come alive for me. 

 

There are a couple of other options for syncing a wiki-like database from a computer to iOS without sending your stuff unencrypted onto the cloud, but not cross platform. You need a Mac, and plain text won't cut it -- on VoodooPad you have to accept using markdown (somewhere in-between .html and .txt) or on DEVONthink you have to use rich text (a proprietary Microsoft format that is generally readable everywhere these days, but sometimes has inconsistencies).

 

It seems like a terribly simple concept, and it has been around a long time, but the personal wiki is surprisingly difficult to find in the wild, and even more rare in plain text. Once you come to this realization, the incredible work that Evernote has done to bring the personal wiki mainstream seems pretty cool.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Alan,

How do you read that font? On my iPad and it hurts! ;-)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

There is 1 other important aspect that you left out regarding plain text: exportability. That is to say, the app should support exporting notes as individual notes, and not as 1 big file, which is what I am having to face at the moment. Exporting as 1 big file means you have to retype everything if you change app.

 

One decision I made years ago was to work in plain text. I made it for many reasons. But, chief among them was portability.
http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=14

Moving from one app to another is a relatively painless task if you write in Markdown, and you'll be able to print however you'd like, I suppose, because you can control everything. I went paperless years ago as well, so I wouldn't know about printing and page numbers, though.

And, because plain text is the lingua franca among computers, it is easy to find an app (even notepad, if you'd like) to handle your notes.If you're going back to basics, I wouldn't do Word, I'd do plain text.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Another option to having just 1 app is to have 2 or 3 depending on your needs, use case, workflow, ... The reason I say this is because I believe the swiss army knife of note-taking apps does not exist. They all have their strenghts & weaknesses.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

There is 1 other important aspect that you left out regarding plain text: exportability. That is to say, the app should support exporting notes as individual notes, and not as 1 big file, which is what I am having to face at the moment. Exporting as 1 big file means you have to retype everything if you change app.

One decision I made years ago was to work in plain text. I made it for many reasons. But, chief among them was portability.http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=14

Moving from one app to another is a relatively painless task if you write in Markdown, and you'll be able to print however you'd like, I suppose, because you can control everything. I went paperless years ago as well, so I wouldn't know about printing and page numbers, though.

And, because plain text is the lingua franca among computers, it is easy to find an app (even notepad, if you'd like) to handle your notes.If you're going back to basics, I wouldn't do Word, I'd do plain text.

exportability is included in the concept of portability -- the ability to "port" (import/export) or move your data in and out of an app.this is one of my most pressing concerns with any app. evernote, and many other apps i know of, can easily export notes individually. what problem are you having?

Share this post


Link to post

True: exportability is part of portability. But whenever you talk about portability it is always in the context of plain text only. So I thought it was useful to also highlight exportability, particularly since I burned my fingers with it.

My problem is that I am using an app which allows export of notes (all in plain text) in 1 txt or html file. So if I would want to migrate to another app I would have to retype all my notes.

 

 

There is 1 other important aspect that you left out regarding plain text: exportability. That is to say, the app should support exporting notes as individual notes, and not as 1 big file, which is what I am having to face at the moment. Exporting as 1 big file means you have to retype everything if you change app.
 

One decision I made years ago was to work in plain text. I made it for many reasons. But, chief among them was portability.http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=14
Moving from one app to another is a relatively painless task if you write in Markdown, and you'll be able to print however you'd like, I suppose, because you can control everything. I went paperless years ago as well, so I wouldn't know about printing and page numbers, though.
And, because plain text is the lingua franca among computers, it is easy to find an app (even notepad, if you'd like) to handle your notes.If you're going back to basics, I wouldn't do Word, I'd do plain text.

exportability is included in the concept of portability -- the ability to "port" (import/export) or move your data in and out of an app.this is one of my most pressing concerns with any app. evernote, and many other apps i know of, can easily export notes individually. what problem are you having?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

True: exportability is part of portability. But whenever you talk about portability it is always in the context of plain text only. So I thought it was useful to also highlight exportability, particularly since I burned my fingers with it.

My problem is that I am using an app which allows export of notes (all in plain text) in 1 txt or html file. So if I would want to migrate to another app I would have to retype all my notes.

 

 

There is 1 other important aspect that you left out regarding plain text: exportability. That is to say, the app should support exporting notes as individual notes, and not as 1 big file, which is what I am having to face at the moment. Exporting as 1 big file means you have to retype everything if you change app.

 

One decision I made years ago was to work in plain text. I made it for many reasons. But, chief among them was portability.http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=14

Moving from one app to another is a relatively painless task if you write in Markdown, and you'll be able to print however you'd like, I suppose, because you can control everything. I went paperless years ago as well, so I wouldn't know about printing and page numbers, though.

And, because plain text is the lingua franca among computers, it is easy to find an app (even notepad, if you'd like) to handle your notes.If you're going back to basics, I wouldn't do Word, I'd do plain text.

exportability is included in the concept of portability -- the ability to "port" (import/export) or move your data in and out of an app.this is one of my most pressing concerns with any app. evernote, and many other apps i know of, can easily export notes individually. what problem are you having?

 

 

 

I think plain text is the most portable, though Evernote doesn't have plain text, so .html is the default. You can then take those .html files and convert them to plain text. In the past, I have done this by running them through VoodooPad or nvALT. I was once given an AppleScript to do it, but I stopped moving my notes in and out of Evernote, so I haven't had a chance to try it.  I write my notes using markdown, so the transition is generally smooth, with some weird spacing problems in past years, but nothing like that in recent builds. 

 

The nice thing about Evernote is that they built portability into it from the start. As I recall, though, Windows has a few more options (as usual), and you might want to consider exporting via your account on Windows if some of the options appeal to you. 

 

What app are you using that creates one big .txt or .html file? That sounds very odd. For example, with DEVONthink you can export using a bunch of different file formats, but it lumps everything into one file. Or, you can export using files and folders, which exports everything as it is (plain text if you are using that, other formats if those are what you have). Perhaps there is a setting we can help you find. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I agree that Evernote has organised it well, and I use EN as my digital filing cabinet & for notes that do not need special formatting or tables. But I use the open source "Zettelkasten" app for my literature research. For bulk export you either have to export each note individually (crazy) or export as 1 file.

 

 

I think plain text is the most portable, though Evernote doesn't have plain text, so .html is the default. You can then take those .html files and convert them to plain text. In the past, I have done this by running them through VoodooPad or nvALT. I was once given an AppleScript to do it, but I stopped moving my notes in and out of Evernote, so I haven't had a chance to try it.  I write my notes using markdown, so the transition is generally smooth, with some weird spacing problems in past years, but nothing like that in recent builds. 

 

The nice thing about Evernote is that they built portability into it from the start. As I recall, though, Windows has a few more options (as usual), and you might want to consider exporting via your account on Windows if some of the options appeal to you. 

 

What app are you using that creates one big .txt or .html file? That sounds very odd. For example, with DEVONthink you can export using a bunch of different file formats, but it lumps everything into one file. Or, you can export using files and folders, which exports everything as it is (plain text if you are using that, other formats if those are what you have). Perhaps there is a setting we can help you find. 

 

Share this post


Link to post

 

I agree that Evernote has organised it well, and I use EN as my digital filing cabinet & for notes that do not need special formatting or tables. But I use the open source "Zettelkasten" app for my literature research. For bulk export you either have to export each note individually (crazy) or export as 1 file.

 

 

I think plain text is the most portable, though Evernote doesn't have plain text, so .html is the default. You can then take those .html files and convert them to plain text. In the past, I have done this by running them through VoodooPad or nvALT. I was once given an AppleScript to do it, but I stopped moving my notes in and out of Evernote, so I haven't had a chance to try it.  I write my notes using markdown, so the transition is generally smooth, with some weird spacing problems in past years, but nothing like that in recent builds. 

 

The nice thing about Evernote is that they built portability into it from the start. As I recall, though, Windows has a few more options (as usual), and you might want to consider exporting via your account on Windows if some of the options appeal to you. 

 

What app are you using that creates one big .txt or .html file? That sounds very odd. For example, with DEVONthink you can export using a bunch of different file formats, but it lumps everything into one file. Or, you can export using files and folders, which exports everything as it is (plain text if you are using that, other formats if those are what you have). Perhaps there is a setting we can help you find. 

 

 

 

Hahaha. The Zettelkasten app. I always meant to try that, and I'm glad you've scouted the territory in my place. I downloaded it but never installed it, because I was doing just fine with Evernote and/or nvALT. I think Christian Tietze (someone who has helped popularize the digital Zettelkasten) also uses nvALT. The lack of portability in that app appears to be a terrible misstep by Daniel (I think it was written by one developer, right?), and that is exactly the kind of thing "power users" have to avoid, because we've got rather demanding use cases with lots of data.

Share this post


Link to post

Christian helped popularise the concept of Zettelkasten but he has been on nvAlt all along I think. I find Zettelkasten to be a very good app for literature research. I don't know if the lack of exportability is a misstep (yes Daniel Luedecke is the developer) or an oversight, by which I mean that I think it could still be corrected; I can't imagine that being a big problem. But I can't access the Yahoo discussion forum properly so can't bring it up.

Anyway, it sounds like you don't have a suggestion for me either.

 

Hahaha. The Zettelkasten app. I always meant to try that, and I'm glad you've scouted the territory in my place. I downloaded it but never installed it, because I was doing just fine with Evernote and/or nvALT. I think Christian Tietze (someone who has helped popularize the digital Zettelkasten) also uses nvALT. The lack of portability in that app appears to be a terrible misstep by Daniel (I think it was written by one developer, right?), and that is exactly the kind of thing "power users" have to avoid, because we've got rather demanding use cases with lots of data.

 

Share this post


Link to post

 

Christian helped popularise the concept of Zettelkasten but he has been on nvAlt all along I think. I find Zettelkasten to be a very good app for literature research. I don't know if the lack of exportability is a misstep (yes Daniel Luedecke is the developer) or an oversight, by which I mean that I think it could still be corrected; I can't imagine that being a big problem. But I can't access the Yahoo discussion forum properly so can't bring it up.

Anyway, it sounds like you don't have a suggestion for me either.

 

Hahaha. The Zettelkasten app. I always meant to try that, and I'm glad you've scouted the territory in my place. I downloaded it but never installed it, because I was doing just fine with Evernote and/or nvALT. I think Christian Tietze (someone who has helped popularize the digital Zettelkasten) also uses nvALT. The lack of portability in that app appears to be a terrible misstep by Daniel (I think it was written by one developer, right?), and that is exactly the kind of thing "power users" have to avoid, because we've got rather demanding use cases with lots of data.

 

 

 

Nope. No suggestions for getting stuff out of Zettelkasten, I'm afraid. If you can track down where it stores the files (perhaps using Finder), that might give you a hint. One of the great things about nvALT is that it puts everything right out in the open in a folder. There isn't any export out of it because your data doesn't go in anywhere. Brilliant. 

 

Christian experimented with a bunch of stuff for a while, I think. At least, that is the sense I got from his post here.

http://christiantietze.de/posts/2014/03/baseline-zettelkasten-software-reviews/

 

Interestingly, he didn't write about Evernote, as far as I know. I suppose it would be pretty much perfect for him as long as he doesn't need markdown previews. 

Share this post


Link to post

I am on Windows so can't use nvAlt. Christian has said he will start an Evernote review as a Zettelkasten this month. I'll be interested to read his findings.

1 mega drawback I see that will not make me use EN as a Zettelkasten is the fact that an uninstall/reinstall (EN support's almost standard recommendation to fix a problem) breaks internal links in local notes. Here too, I have experienced this painfully & will not let that happen again.

I remain amazed how often one has to do an EN uninstall/reinstall, because I have not come across this with any other apps.

 

Nope. No suggestions for getting stuff out of Zettelkasten, I'm afraid. If you can track down where it stores the files (perhaps using Finder), that might give you a hint. One of the great things about nvALT is that it puts everything right out in the open in a folder. There isn't any export out of it because your data doesn't go in anywhere. Brilliant. 

 

Christian experimented with a bunch of stuff for a while, I think. At least, that is the sense I got from his post here.

http://christiantietze.de/posts/2014/03/baseline-zettelkasten-software-reviews/

 

Interestingly, he didn't write about Evernote, as far as I know. I suppose it would be pretty much perfect for him as long as he doesn't need markdown previews. 

 

Share this post


Link to post

Read thru most of the posts. Have used lots of PIMs over the years. Came to Evernote for the obvious reasons. The drawbacks I found were not able to visually edit images (with random text, links, markings, etc.) as I can with OneNote and the lack of support for table sorting (which OneNote does). Have also used EssentialPIM extensively, which has the noted drawbacks as well. AllMyNotes looks attractive although dated, but does have table sorting capability. Have been getting used to OneNote. One thing I didn't like is saving to the Cloud all the time, which I found a way online to save locally and selectively save to the Cloud to see data on my other devices. The reason why I needed to save to the desktop is I have an Internet connection that is painfully slow at times with a limited data plan due to our living in a remote area. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Yes! I echo your desire for (an updated and Mac-ified) ECCO!

 

Warmly,

Joel

Share this post


Link to post

Evernote on Windows 7 Desktop, Windows 8.1 tablet, Android Phone and in iPad, plus a browser version.  You cannot get that with One Note.  The reason I switched in the first place was lack of an Android client (direct from MS, not a 3rd party hack) from Microsoft.  

 

Add to that Clearly, Skitch, Web Clipper, Penultimate.  

Share this post


Link to post

Like many other power users I have read every post in this thread with major interest...

After 4 years, 7000+ notes, I just lost ALL my tags today (which I use extensively). I'm in the "support matrix" with an open ticket and activity log sharing. I was stressed & freaked out earlier, but now I've made peace with whatever happens (with my tags).

But had this been data loss, privacy beach, etc. I don't think I'd be so Zen about it.

I've been "in love" with Evernote since 2011. But, now I'm starting to feel like I'm in a DYSFUNCTIONAL ONE-SIDED relationship.

...and I'm a relationship & dating coach who helps women avoid this exact situation! Kinda funny when I detach and think about it.

My wife thinks I'm crazy for being this affected by "software", and maybe she's right. But when I gave her an analogy to Facebook making her private messages public, randomly deleting photos, or closing her acct with no explanation, she felt me a little bit.

Anyway, the word of the day is not bugs, syncing, scaling, deleting or any other "physical" problem...

The word of the day is TRUST.

Once broken, it's hard to mend. Twice broken and only the victims & ***** come back for more.

They could literally resolve 80 percent of user frustration and restore trust without a single bug fixed, with simply better communication and transparency.

I remember around this time last year was when that epic blog post was made that Phil publicly responded to, that VALIDATED and RELIEVED many power users concerns that were previously voiced millions of times on this very forum.

I remember feeling mixed emotions.

Happy that the head honcho was finally owning up to all the problems we had been seeing. But felt a little nauseated that it took a high profile blogger to get his attention - making Phil seem very disingenuous like a politician who cares more about public opinion than public safety.

Anyway I have a lot more to say but this post is already getting long and I didn't know where to put all this stuff so I figured I'd drop it here, since it feels like 1/2 alternative seeking and 1/2 support group.

I feel your pain!

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

The fact is that very little changed after that blog post and Libin's response.

In the last year I haven't seen any of the "sexy" security that was promised and I think overall quality has in many cases collapsed. Penultimate, the new Mac client and the '"beta" web app have been pretty embarrassing and in some cases required huge amounts of (costly) back pedalling. In the meantime they decided (correctly I believe) to stop supporting free users but handled the process terribly.

Libin is great for click bait, you can see why the tech conferences and techy websites like him. I like listening to him on the podcasts. I don't believe a single word he says about Evernote because most of the time it's not true or he simply doesn't have the ability to deliver it.

I still use the product dozens of times a day, but in pretty much every use case it's for a lightweight task. I don't think I would ever be able to commit to completing a really important task in Evernote.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

The fact is that very little changed after that blog post and Libin's response.

In the last year I haven't seen any of the "sexy" security that was promised and I think overall quality has in many cases collapsed. Penultimate, the new Mac client and the '"beta" web app have been pretty embarrassing and in some cases required huge amounts of (costly) back pedalling. In the meantime they decided (correctly I believe) to stop supporting free users but handled the process terribly.

Libin is great for click bait, you can see why the tech conferences and techy websites like him. I like listening to him on the podcasts. I don't believe a single word he says about Evernote because most of the time it's not true or he simply doesn't have the ability to deliver it.

I still use the product dozens of times a day, but in pretty much every use case it's for a lightweight task. I don't think I would ever be able to commit to completing a really important task in Evernote.

I disagree that very little has changed, for the reasons you mention. IMO, a lot has changed and for the worst. Overall decline in quality, removing key features with no warning (sharing, support for free users - which, BTW was silently implemented with no mention by Evernote for several MONTHS eventhough it was a hot topic amongst users on this board), support for premium users seems to be pretty poor now, too) and overall, divorcing themselves from their users.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

A bit of nuance: they are divorcing themselves from their Free (understandable) & Premium users, but they are cosying up to their Business users.

 

I disagree that very little has changed, for the reasons you mention. IMO, a lot has changed and for the worst. Overall decline in quality, removing key features with no warning (sharing, support for free users - which, BTW was silently implemented with no mention by Evernote for several MONTHS eventhough it was a hot topic amongst users on this board), support for premium users seems to be pretty poor now, too) and overall, divorcing themselves from their users.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Funny the word m a s o c h i s t gets edited to ***** on this forum. That's weird.

Poetic?   :)

Share this post


Link to post

 

................................. but they are cosying up to their Business users.

 

 

I so wish that was true Pete!

 

Regards

 

Chris

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

If even that is not true then Evernote will definitely pay a heavy price. How sad.

 

 

 

................................. but they are cosying up to their Business users.

 

 

I so wish that was true Pete!

 

Regards

 

Chris

 

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

:)

 

This sure looks modeled after our familiar app. With "Eversync" service and more at http://everhelper.me.

 

Another one is Alternote: http://alternoteapp.com/

 

Lots of these apps popping up!

 

nimbus note shares the same domain as everhelper. what's their physical address? i don't know. is it wise to encourage doctors to keep patient records in nimbus notes? they seem to think so, though it would be illegal (and terrible advice even if it weren't) in the us. i cannot stress enough that users really need to be cautious about how they treat their data -- in comparison to nn, evernote seems considerably more trustworthy, even if we're only talking about transparency. 

 

just as a reminder, this is a thread for power users, and in that context, i am not criticizing nn, which may be a fine service, but when it comes to mission critical or large amounts of data, you really need to be careful. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Nimbus Notes head office, according to their website, is in Delaware. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion of their security, Grumpy. (That stuff still makes no sense to me unless translated to English...tech speech is not, IMO, English. Oh sure, I recogize a word here and there, but mostly it may as well be Martian for all the sense it makes to me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 An employee of Nimbus, Kuzma Safonov, told me they are based in Cleveland, Ohio & have been going since Nov 2013. Apart from the UI that looks remarkably like EN, their pricing does too.

 

Nimbus Notes head office, according to their website, is in Delaware. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion of their security, Grumpy. (That stuff still makes no sense to me unless translated to English...tech speech is not, IMO, English. Oh sure, I recogize a word here and there, but mostly it may as well be Martian for all the sense it makes to me. )


 

Share this post


Link to post

Where is Evernote located? I think we can all find that answer quite easily, if you don't know it already. Where are their servers? We know where the main ones are, and we know they have dedicated staff following strict protocols to maintain their security. Transparency is the foundation of trust. A company that does not even prominently display their physical address raises red flags for me. Why hide it?

Does nimbus notes mention this address on their website? I sidn't see it there, but it comes up when I plug in nimbus notes and delaware into Google (thanks Wordsgood).

1521 Concord Pike, Suite 301Wilmington, Delaware 19803

OK. Delaware isn't a hotbed of tech development in my mind, but people have their offices all over the place for various reasons.It might be fine. But, how likely is it that they share suite 301 with the Brandywine Executive Center office staff?

http://www.bwecenter.com/about-us/

I might be missing something here, but it looks fishy, like a copy/paste job. A simple mistake on my part or theirs? Maybe, but it is this kind of stuff that concerns me, because there should not be a question. The cloud is not some place in the virtual world but a physical location -- hard drives somewhere are gathering your data. You are asking them to put your data on their servers. Maybe they use Amazon or Dropbox. I can't even tell you that. Is it going onto the Dell in John's basement? Maybe. Who's John? I don't know. Not a single employee name is mentioned, so I just made it up.

A quick search turns up no employee names, no business model, no physical address, no virtual address (a form on their website), and a blog encouraging doctors to store patient data in their service (almost certainly a gross violation of HIPAA). To my eyes, it looks like a terrible idea to use them for anything you actually care about.

They may be entirely legit, and I am not making any accusations here. They simply look wrong to me, and that inexperience / lack of professionalism / amateurishness / fishiness raises red flags. This, despite having a really beautiful app.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Kuzma does look like a real person. And, when I plug his name in with Nimbus Notes, I get hits. He seems to be someone in Cleveland and a "leader" of two companies.
http://www.f6s.com/kuzmasafonov

Or, he is the co-founder with an email address representing several companies.
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/everhelper

I am not sure what his connection is with the business park in Delaware, though. And, if he has been in business since 2007, was he running his business while he was an MA student (I am a little unclear about when/whether he graduated from this university in Uzbekistan, or what his degree was)? With the scant data we have, it just doesn't add up for me to a legitimate service.

Maybe he is a brilliant, wonderful guy. Obviously, he is creating some great stuff. But, he needs to get together with his "team" and sort this stuff out for us, because it looks just as fishy when we connect a name to the product.

As some of you may know, I have been pushing Evernote to provide better security. It's not because they don't provide a lot already, but because I think (and many experts agree) that more encryption is needed by all cloud services. Certainly (in the doctor's example above), there are use cases that are entirely inappropriate for any cloud service without encryption, and Evernote has clearly stated that it is not (nor does it plan to be) HIPAA compliant. It's a good thing when companies explain to you the limits of their services.

 

Unless it is hiding a great deal of security information, Nimbus Notes (and some others mentioned here) doesn't even come close to the security that Evernote has offered its users since the beginning. This basic security stuff, at least for power users, shouldn't be ignored.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Thank you, Grumpy. That's what I feared and why I wanted your opinion.

Glad I could help, though I should stress that I am no expert in such things. I just happen to be rather concerned about security issues, and so I tend to focus on those when evaluating any service, and I am perhaps overly cautious when it comes to cloud services. I think my cautious approach is well-suited to my particular use case, though. I can imagine someone else with less sensitive data, or perhaps someone who is less concerned about losing control of that data, evaluating things differently.

Share this post


Link to post

When I worked for a law firm, many of our clients preferred to incorporate in and do business out of Delaware because the income tax law is very business-friendly. 

 

I'm not saying that Kuzma is doing anything shady, but there are those who do use the law for their own questionable purposes

 

Kuzma does look like a real person. And, when I plug his name in with Nimbus Notes, I get hits. He seems to be someone in Cleveland and a "leader" of two companies.
http://www.f6s.com/kuzmasafonov

Or, he is the co-founder with an email address representing several companies.
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/everhelper

I am not sure what his connection is with the business park in Delaware, though. And, if he has been in business since 2007, was he running his business while he was an MA student (I am a little unclear about when/whether he graduated from this university in Uzbekistan, or what his degree was)? With the scant data we have, it just doesn't add up for me to a legitimate service.
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

It is important to know where the servers are as well.  I don't think that it has changed, but the last cloud service contract with which I was involved had provisions that the company's data had to be housed on US servers.  Heaven only knows how much difference that makes, but still. 

Share this post


Link to post

It matters where the servers are located because their physical location affects legal jurisdiction. US servers are under US laws and Chinese servers are under Chinese laws. Conditions in these countries might differ from the privacy / security expectations you enjoy in your country. If you think about copyright laws and other such restrictions on data that regularly affect everyday folks, you can imagine the trouble that could be caused if your data ends up in the wrong place, so it is a good idea to inquire into the location of the servers.

As was mentioned, Delaware is a well-known tax-haven, and Nimbus Notes apparently shares the office complex with some major US banks, but I don't think anyone else claims to share the same office with the administrative staff of the business complex. That is what piqued my interest, though it may all just be a misunderstanding. The fact that it is unclear where NN is located is enough of a red flag to keep me away. Other users may have a different threshold for fishiness :)

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

Please don't ever leave the forum, Grumpy. Please....

It matters where the servers are located because their physical location affects legal jurisdiction. US servers are under US laws and Chinese servers are under Chinese laws. Conditions in these countries might differ from the privacy / security expectations you enjoy in your country. If you think about copyright laws and other such restrictions on data that regularly affect everyday folks, you can imagine the trouble that could be caused if your data ends up in the wrong place, so it is a good idea to inquire into the location of the servers.

As was mentioned, Delaware is a well-known tax-haven, and Nimbus Notes apparently shares the office complex with some major US banks, but I don't think anyone else claims to share the same office with the administrative staff of the business complex. That is what piqued my interest, though it may all just be a misunderstanding. The fact that it is unclear where NN is located is enough of a red flag to keep me away. Other users may have a different threshold for fishiness :)

Share this post


Link to post

There were a couple of alternatives there that I hadn't heard of before.  Thanks!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

How (and why) to use Google Drive as a powerful note-taking tool -- PC World Review

 

The above link is to an extensive article that revealed a number of features, or how-to's, of Google Drive that I was not aware of.

Of course, it makes good use of Google Docs.

 

But it does show you how to do a lot of note-taking tasks, as well as point out some areas where Evernote and/or OneNote are better.

 

I continue to think that Google (or maybe Yahoo) is the 500 LB sleeping guerrilla who, at any point, might wake up and try to grab the PIM and BIM market.  Maybe Google isn't really asleep, since Google Docs/Drive really provide the foundation they would need.  Yahoo continues to try to find their way to regain the dominance they once enjoyed.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

How (and why) to use Google Drive as a powerful note-taking tool -- PC World Review

 

The above link is to an extensive article that revealed a number of features, or how-to's, of Google Drive that I was not aware of.

Of course, it makes good use of Google Docs.

 

But it does show you how to do a lot of note-taking tasks, as well as point out some areas where Evernote and/or OneNote are better.

 

I continue to think that Google (or maybe Yahoo) is the 500 LB sleeping guerrilla who, at any point, might wake up and try to grab the PIM and BIM market.  Maybe Google isn't really asleep, since Google Docs/Drive really provide the foundation they would need.  Yahoo continues to try to find their way to regain the dominance they once enjoyed.

 

Thanks for posting the link. I ran across it today as well and was quite disappointed in the content. What a weak explanation of Google, especially with unsubstantiated claims about Google's search capabilities. Yes, it is pretty cool, but if the writer of the article is more familiar with the ins and outs of the service, it'd be nice to have that all explained for us. So much of the tech news these days is blather. I think they must have tight deadlines and little pay or something, because it usually doesn't even reach the level of "news" or even a decent "how to." As for Keep, and the link in the article, I can't say I am impressed.

 

But, I agree with you. There is a huge amount of potential out there for Google. Personally, I have had poor experiences with Google's note-taking services in the past, I am not terribly enthusiastic about their vision for the future (especially in terms of privacy), and I have no interest in switching to it anytime soon. But, many major corporations (including three of the universities I have worked at) are buying into their services, so they are picking up momentum.

 

By the way, lest anyone think I am just dismissing Google out of some blind affection for Evernote or whatever, I have an Android phone and I often have Android tablets, though none this year (I was hoping for a fast 10" instead of a slow 9"). Google gets a lot of stuff right, but it is still out of sync with my note-taking and PIM needs.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

How (and why) to use Google Drive as a powerful note-taking tool -- PC World Review

 

The above link is to an extensive article that revealed a number of features, or how-to's, of Google Drive that I was not aware of.

Of course, it makes good use of Google Docs.

 

But it does show you how to do a lot of note-taking tasks, as well as point out some areas where Evernote and/or OneNote are better.

. . .

 

Thanks for posting the link. I ran across it today as well and was quite disappointed in the content. What a weak explanation of Google, especially with unsubstantiated claims about Google's search capabilities. Yes, it is pretty cool, but if the writer of the article is more familiar with the ins and outs of the service, it'd be nice to have that all explained for us. So much of the tech news these days is blather. I think they must have tight deadlines and little pay or something, because it usually doesn't even reach the level of "news" or even a decent "how to." As for Keep, and the link in the article, I can't say I am impressed.

 

. . .

 

GM, I'm wondering if we read the same article.   ;)

  • It is a fairly long article (by blog standards) and IMO provides a lot of details.
  • It certainly provides as much detail as most Evernote blogs (both by Evernote and other authors).
  • He provides specific details about how to use advanced features of Google Search within Google Drive/Docs
  • Provided a link to the full set of options for Google Search
  • Provided details and links on Google Research (competitor to EN Context)
    • I had no idea about the extent and options for Google Research
    • For example, it gives you control over the sources, including scholarly articles, with EN Context does not.
  • Finally he points out where other apps like Evernote and OneNote might be a better fit

It is clearly no users guide, but then it doesn't claim to be.

But it does cover the entire scope of Google Drive/Docs/etc with enough detail to give you some appreciation for the tool, and to decide whether or not you might want to further investigate.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

GM, I'm wondering if we read the same article.   ;)

  • It is a fairly long article (by blog standards) and IMO provides a lot of details.
  • It certainly provides as much detail as most Evernote blogs (both by Evernote and other authors).
  • He provides specific details about how to use advanced features of Google Search within Google Drive/Docs
  • Provided a link to the full set of options for Google Search
  • Provided details and links on Google Research (competitor to EN Context)
    • I had no idea about the extent and options for Google Research
    • For example, it gives you control over the sources, including scholarly articles, with EN Context does not.
  • Finally he points out where other apps like Evernote and OneNote might be a better fit
It is clearly no users guide, but then it doesn't claim to be.

But it does cover the entire scope of Google Drive/Docs/etc with enough detail to give you some appreciation for the tool, and to decide whether or not you might want to further investigate.

Yes. We read the same article by Mr. Walter. No. I was not as impressed as you were :) However, I do appreciate your linking to the article. Hopefully, it will help other users.

Share this post


Link to post

Here is a specific criticism (one of several that I have) of Mr. Walter's article. He does a good job of mentioning that Google only OCRs the first 100 pages of a PDF. Most people do miss this. What he fails to do, though, is dig a little deeper and give you the important information you need to make a decision.

He is wrong about it being "like" Evernote. In fact, Evernote will not OCR the first 100 pages of a PDF that is longer than 100 pages (am I the only one that thinks this is suggested by his sentence?). It won't OCR it at all if it is over 100 pages (last I checked). This would seem to be a point in Google's favor.

BUT, as several GD users have complained about to Google since 2012, Google will not index any pages past the first 100 of a PDF that is already OCR'd (Mr. Walter mentions this). Evernote will (Mr. Walter does not mention this). This is a big deal if you put a bunch of PDFs into GD expecting its "best-in-class search" to find what you are looking for. It won't. And, you have to dig around a lot to find out about this limitation (in fact, Google's CS folks had us jumping through hoops for a long time moving files in and out before the users digging around figured out the problem). As far as I know, Google has not addressed this issue.

The devil is in the details. I'm not a tech blogger and don't get paid to research this stuff, but (judging by what he has said in his article) I have more knowledge of these services than Mr. Walter. If that is the case, it is difficult for me to be impressed by his effort. By the way, if you want to read more about this PDF thingy, see my posts in this thread on the GD forum.
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!msg/drive/xxx3qtRbA2w/kzhV0dv7r9UJ

 

[EDIT:] And, if you want a workaround for this limitation in Google Drive, textify your PDFs. http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=551%C2'> especially power users, need to know about services from multiple perspectives. A great blog post will provide plenty of workarounds and well-considered tips for usage in order to help us make informed decisions. Bringing together information we could have found on our own by Googling is definitely a helpful thing to do, but unless it is really difficult to find the information, it is not especially worthy of note. I wouldn't Evernote it :)


I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, though, and say that a lot of the tech stuff is blather because they aren't given the time, resources, or remuneration to produce worthwhile reading. Maybe he has some great stuff to say, but these constraints keep him from including it. Whatever the reason, it isn't in-depth enough for me.

Don't even get me started on security/privacy issues, including the security hole kerfuffle that GD had last year. GD is a non-starter for me, and I would recommend disgruntled Evernote power users (the audience in this thread) carefully research the other options out there before switching and finding out that they have wasted their time and effort. Or, even worse, have all of their content over the last three years handed over to the US government without their knowledge (a recent case involving WikiLeaks reporters). That brings us back to my encryption advice earlier in this thread, and my recommendation that users not put un-encrypted data into the cloud. In this sense, Evernote's local notebooks would be a far superior choice to Google Drive.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

GM, I really appreciate your experience and expertise in very large PDF files.  

 

Your main complaint about the PCWorld review is that the author did not go into enough detail about very large, > 100 pages, PDFs.  Frankly, I don't know how many users actually have, or want to store online, these very large PDFs.  Personally, I don't have any although I have a large collection of PDFs, with my largest being a 50-page PDF for a A/V receiver.  Unless you are maintaining a personal book library, I'm not sure I see the need.  If you are maintaining a personal book library, then I suspect there are much better tools for doing so than either Google Drive or Evernote.

 

I read a lot of tech reviews, and I rarely, if ever, find them to be both comprehensive and very detailed.  That would be a user's manual.  I look to reviews to provide me with insights into potentially useful features and serious drawbacks/limitations.  If the review has captured my interest, then I would normally get more detailed info by going to the product web site, reviewing the user's manual, and doing more Google searches on it.

 

No review is perfect, but I thought the PCWorld review of Google Drive was better than average.  And BTW, none of this means that I am promoting or recommending Google Drive.

Share this post


Link to post

That was one of many criticisms, and because my post on one of them was about half as long as his "long" article, I don't really want to go into any more details. After all, as you said, most tech articles are, in fact, neither comprehensive nor detailed. In that context, I have to agree that it is better than average.

As far as large PDFs go, it's a pretty common thing in my experience, so not some weird edge case unsuitable for Evernote or GD. I just happen to have more than most people. I don't see GD as an especially appealing alternative to OneNote or Evernote, and Keep is no more appealing than it was when it first came out. I would suggest that power users could benefit from some combination of apps, but GD (kind of like Dropbox) is probably best seen as a place to put stuff, not an environment for note-taking or a PIM.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

The first paragraph pretty much put me off:

 

 

Mac: Evernote's great, but it's a little over-the-top if you just use it for basic writing. Alternote is a Mac app currently in beta that simplifies things a lot while still syncing up with your Evernote account

 

It may appeal to some, though.

 

 

for those wanting to leave EN due to newly added features like work chat - check out Alternote http://lifehacker.com/alternote-is-a-minimal-note-taking-app-for-mac-with-eve-1684001621

Share this post


Link to post

That brings us back to my encryption advice earlier in this thread, and my recommendation that users not put un-encrypted data into the cloud. In this sense, Evernote's local notebooks would be a far superior choice to Google Drive.

And Google will never offer local-only storage. It's tied to their vision of privacy, i.e., you shouldn't expect any. After all, we are talking about the maker of Google Glass. From Google's perspective, that's not creepy at all! 

 

I certainly agree that Evernote's pivot to the business market opens up opportunities for existing competitors and new entrants in the PIM space, but Google will never be answer for those who wish to keep at least some of their notes out of the hands of others, including the corporation providing the service, hackers and your government.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

for those wanting to leave EN due to newly added features like work chat - check out Alternote http://lifehacker.com/alternote-is-a-minimal-note-taking-app-for-mac-with-eve-1684001621

Thanks for posting this. I imagine it will be a welcome alternative for people upset with some of the changes that have (or have not) been made to Evernote's UI.

Alternote is an Evernote integration with fewer features, though, as I understand it, which makes it a great option for people who don't like some of Evernote's features (they might be absent from the Alternote UIX), but I kind of doubt a minimalistic UI is going to solve the problems of any "power users." In addition, third-party integrations gain complete access to everything you have synced to Evernote, so that might also be a security concern for some. If they have a privacy policy, I couldn't find it. For me, at least, it is not appealing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I've been perusing this topic and from what I understand, Developers of Evernote are not listening to they're subscribers and there has been a breach of privacy numerous times in the past and we are looking for alternatives for Evernote for a power user? 

 

Is that the right statement? I've been contemplating to subscribe to Evernote but it lacks certain features I like and am considering other alternatives for the Mac. 

Share this post


Link to post

Well let's see.

 

Evernote not listening to subscribers? - that's a subjective view;  Evernote don't comment about what they have in the pipeline,  or when new features will be released.  They also conduct their own focus research on the next best direction for their product,  and are influenced by Apple and Google's design guidelines for their own respective products.  Having said all of which,  when were Ford last accused of listening to their customers in new car designs?  It's a big company.  They do their own thing.

 

"Breaches of privacy numerous times in the past?"  Are you reading a different forum?  There was an unsuccessful hack attempt.  Once.  Users would like various levels of encryption,  but Evernote haven't decided to implement this (as far as we know) - see para 1 above.

 

A lot of the 'power users' looking for alternative apps seem to be saying that there's not much out there to offer a viable option.  They're mumbling a lot but sticking with Evernote and hoping things get 'better' (whatever that is...)

 

If you do find a better option I think a lot of people would be glad to know it - please post back when you make your choice!

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

I've been perusing this topic and from what I understand, Developers of Evernote are not listening to they're subscribers and there has been a breach of privacy numerous times in the past and we are looking for alternatives for Evernote for a power user? 

 

Is that the right statement? I've been contemplating to subscribe to Evernote but it lacks certain features I like and am considering other alternatives for the Mac. 

Evernote, like lots of software developers listens to its users, but may not choose to implement every request. 

 

They've had a couple of security breaches/glitches (hardly "numerous", but nothing recently. They usually talk about such things here in the forums and in their tech blogs, so you can search for this if you're interested.

 

The fact that they've let this topic run on, to whatever effect, on their user forums for a fairly long time says something about them. I'l let you draw that conclusion. I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that any other product is unanimously better than Evernote, though some might be better for some peoples' use cases.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Evernote have been pretty clear in the past that they develop what they believe to be useful - there's no doubt that they take some account of user feedback but just because what seems like a lot of people on this small forum say that something is essential/easy to implement/a deal breaker (my favourite) doesn't mean that Evernote will ever develop it.

 

Given that there are more than 100m Evernote accounts, I don't remember reading about more than a handful of privacy/security issues which isn't bad.

 

This thread is really about long term evernote users who over time have become disgruntled with the way Evernote as a company behave or with specific use cases or issues that have not been or may not be resolved.

 

If it lacks features that you need then it's not the right app whatever the situation is with "listening" and security.

 

(I should just leave Gaz and Jeff to it)

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

@gaz.

 

Yeah, even if it happens twice.   ;)

Share this post


Link to post

I've been perusing this topic and from what I understand, Developers of Evernote are not listening to they're subscribers and there has been a breach of privacy numerous times in the past and we are looking for alternatives for Evernote for a power user? 

 

Is that the right statement? I've been contemplating to subscribe to Evernote but it lacks certain features I like and am considering other alternatives for the Mac. 

 

In the original post, the question was: "From the time you've taken to research, which applications are you finding to be the most VIABLE replacements or alternatives to EN for Power Users?" I think the general trend has been for folks to post note-taking or personal information apps that would be potential alternatives to EN, and I have been shooting down all of the ideas from the perspective of a power user :) Usually, my criticisms address the poor state of the alternative, lack of adequate privacy protections (sometimes, no policies at all), fishy practices, and the general insecurity of the "cloud," which Evernote is also built upon. If you aren't especially concerned about putting your stuff unencrypted into the cloud (this is my pet peeve), and just about everyone using Dropbox, email, etc. is not, then Evernote is one of the more secure options available; understanding, of course, that different people have different use cases.

 

For access to your notes regardless of platform, I think the only viable alternative proposed so far has been OneNote. If you can settle for primarily plain text, there are some other options for multiple platforms, but it usually requires you to cobble together different apps and run them through Dropbox (for example, nvALT on the Mac and notesy on your iPad). If you are working only with OSX and iOS, I would suggest taking a look at DEVONthink -- a pretty amazing app, but one that is not (and probably never will be) on Windows.

 

As Jefito said, it is cool that the company lets threads like this run on. In fact, though, I think that, for a lot of people, knowing the alternatives actually strengthens Evernote's case. For all of the complaints about its interface or whatever, just look at how innovative Evernote has been in this space. Until a few months ago, OneNote wasn't even available on all platforms. If you don't like OneNote (many of us came over from OneNote) and you need to work on multiple platforms, Evernote is probably the app for you.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

@gaz.

 

Yeah, even if it happens twice.   ;)

 

Don't know how I did that.  Killed one of them anyway;  it really wasn't so good it was worth saying twice...   :P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

So, apparently, I'm not allowed to "like" (upvote) more than 50 posts in one day, with this new forum system (got an error pop-up - DESPITE POP-UPS BEING BLOCKED IN MY BROWSER!!!) informing me that I have reached my "quota limit" of posts that I can "like" in one day.  WTF?  Apparently, people are being discouraged from doing a lot of reading in the forums. (sarcasm) Can't imagine why! (/sarcasm)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Simply to stop spammers, there's no great conspiracy at work here. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Apparently, people are being discouraged from doing a lot of reading in the forums.

Unlimited reading (something you do with your eyes, evidently) is still allowed in the forums. Unlimited "liking" is apparently not...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

WTF?

Evidently, there are two things that are very addictive: the need for speed and the need to please. And both, it seems, have their limits.

Share this post


Link to post

A lot of people seem to be recommending OneNote.  I've played with it a few times, but I don't mesh well with everything being nested boxes.  I haven't seen anyone mention Workflowy here.  In Workflowy, everything is nested outlines, which seems to match my brain better.  Unfortunately, it doesn't support images or even much formatting yet, but it is practically frictionless to navigate without your hands leaving the keyboard.

 

I use nested tags in Evernote to get a similar outline effect, but Evernote seems to view the feature as an afterthought.  Only the desktop client supports nesting, and it doesn't integrate well.  For instance, if I click New Note, I expect it to populate the tag field with the currently selected nested tags.  Instead I have to manually pin every note into the tag tree.  Tedious.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm no expert on Workflowy, but I think it isn't going to do much for power users who will likely want to store a variety of files, use the app offline, and so forth. It's a cool web app, to be sure, but I haven't seen anything appealing for my particular workflow. It would be nice if Evernote (or a third-party developer) would make an interface as effortless, but I don't think I'd hold my breath waiting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

After using Evernote for the past 6 years, I recently changed my cloud data storage substantially.

Rather than try to put most of my data into Evernote, I am now using: 

  • Workflowy for multi-step tasks and project management
  • Flickr for photos
  • DropBox and OneDrive for file storage
  • Google Keep for quick tasks and reminders
  • Evernote to store reference info, web clips and some old data
  • Specialized apps for specific tasks (example: grocery shopping)
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

That makes perfect sense JB - the idea that Evernote can be a one-stop place for every kind of data is just marketing BS.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

After using Evernote for the past 6 years, I recently changed my cloud data storage substantially.

Rather than try to put most of my data into Evernote, I am now using: 

  • Workflowy for multi-step tasks and project management
  • Flickr for photos
  • DropBox and OneDrive for file storage
  • Google Keep for quick tasks and reminders
  • Evernote to store reference info, web clips and some old data
  • Specialized apps for specific tasks (example: grocery shopping)

 

 

Howdy, JB:

 

If nothing else... RISK is certainly spread among multiple applications... and therefore mitigated.

 

~ Alan

Share this post


Link to post

Any tool has good uses and bad uses, which may differ among individual tool users. Some people can make beautiful ice sculptures with chainsaws, some can can make trips to the emergency room...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Any tool has good uses and bad uses, which may differ among individual tool users. Some people can make beautiful ice sculptures with chainsaws, some can can make trips to the emergency room...

 

My trips to the emergency room make for beautiful art. How does that fit into your analogy? (I may just be being a dick here)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

Any tool has good uses and bad uses, which may differ among individual tool users. Some people can make beautiful ice sculptures with chainsaws, some can can make trips to the emergency room...

 

My trips to the emergency room make for beautiful art. How does that fit into your analogy? (I may just be being a dick here)

Fits my analogy just fine!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I've been using, and loving, Evernote as a cloud based filing system - I want to scan my stuff in as pdfs and have it searchable.  I'm premium.  It used to be excellent, but is noticeably going downhill.  Instead of the core functionality I'm getting deluged by garbage "upgrades" like work chat and skitch, which I can't turn off, and make using it considerably more frustrating.

 

Does anyone have another solution for a scan to cloud with good search across devices?  Dropbox?  Google Drive?

Share this post


Link to post

There's a lot of options in this thread already,  though only one company so far seems to have the infrastructure and product range to offer a halfway compatible service.  A lot of people are looking around but at the end of the day it seems to boil down to your comfort zone with smaller companies,  who may not be secure,  or around for so long,  or have so many access or processing options.  Check out the latest MS OneNote for the big ticket approach,  but don't expect it to be anything like Evernote's notebook / notes / tag layout.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

if you're using the cloud, it's gonna be tough to beat evernote. for all platforms, onenote is probably the best alternative.

Share this post


Link to post

Guys.  Have you seen the latest Centrallo web version?  Just released today!   Look out Evernote!  www.centrallo.com

Checklists now too!  And the ability to publish and share links!  I can't stop using it.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted · Hidden by jefito, February 26, 2015 - duplicate post. borderline spammy, too, but not wholly off topic...
Hidden by jefito, February 26, 2015 - duplicate post. borderline spammy, too, but not wholly off topic...

Guys.  Have you seen the latest Centrallo web version?  Just released today!   Look out Evernote!  www.centrallo.com

Checklists now too!  And the ability to publish and share links!  I can't stop using it.

Share this post


Link to post
 

Guys.  Have you seen the latest Centrallo web version?  Just released today!   Look out Evernote!  www.centrallo.com

Checklists now too!  And the ability to publish and share links!  I can't stop using it.

 

 

I can't stop eating avocado.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Guys.  Have you seen the latest Centrallo web version?  Just released today!   Look out Evernote!  www.centrallo.com

Checklists now too!  And the ability to publish and share links!  I can't stop using it.

 

LOL. Good luck with your 1 GB power users. Oh, and if you want to know about their security policies, they recommend you email them to ask. Hahaha. It may be a great service, but I don't think it stacks up well to Evernote, and it certainly has a long way to go with its policies. Haven't we already covered this app? I think Roberta needs to provide us with more compelling reasons.

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/66103-power-user-discontent-best-alternatives-to-en/?p=314882

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

@centrallo.. I think their ad made me think in terms of Wunderlist.. Not very impressive, for a workflow, since, I prefer the other way.. And in any case.. their pricing is not very impressive.. Nothing about Tags.. Editing .. and most importantly.. no Windows.. no Evernote import support..  So.. thats a thumbs down..Sir.. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Done the searches already and signed in to Intellinote.

Appears to be a very clever package, but need to investigate more.

No way of importing Evenote Notes at the moment though.

Regards

Chris

 

Hello Evernote Users
 
We just released an Evernote Importer: https://www.intellin...rnote-importer/and we are looking for a few power Evernote users who are able to take our Importer out for a spin...and possibly provide feedback  :)
 
Any feedback (good/bad/ugly) will be greatly appreciated. (BTW, in the interest of full disclosure, let me add that Intellinote now offers 30-day free trials to all new users.)
 
Sincerely,
Mohan Kompella @IntellinoteInc 

Share this post


Link to post

Hello Evernote Users

 
We just released an Evernote Importer: https://www.intellin...rnote-importer/and we are looking for a few power Evernote users who are able to take our Importer out for a spin...and possibly provide feedback  :)
 
Any feedback (good/bad/ugly) will be greatly appreciated. (BTW, in the interest of full disclosure, let me add that Intellinote now offers 30-day free trials to all new users.)
 
Sincerely,
Mohan Kompella @IntellinoteInc

 

I took a quick look. At Intellinote's $10/mo vs. EN's $5/mo... for a start-up app?... that was enough for me to take a breath... and close the website... at least for now.

 

~ Alan

Share this post


Link to post

Centrallo looks like garbage.  Is that spam or is it supposed to be serious?  

Share this post


Link to post

I concluded a long time ago that with VC money aboard, what matters is subscriber base & new sign-up trends.  EN-Peek or Skitch or that EN-recipe thing attracts a new class of user.  A decent editor attracts no-one, merely quenches dissatisfaction.  Satisfaction/dissatisfaction is equal in importance to a penguin farting at the South Pole so far as VCs are concerned.  You guys are stuck on dissatisfactions (which I share).  We don't exit, because we all see the staggering potential of EN (done right).  And it will be - when the VCs have been bought out by [witholding my guess].  I agree with whomever pointed out that competition would make a difference.  But - there is no competition with remotely comparable potential.

 

/Schooner

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I concluded a long time ago that with VC money aboard, what matters is subscriber base & new sign-up trends.  EN-Peek or Skitch or that EN-recipe thing attracts a new class of user.  A decent editor attracts no-one, merely quenches dissatisfaction.  Satisfaction/dissatisfaction is equal in importance to a penguin farting at the South Pole so far as VCs are concerned.  You guys are stuck on dissatisfactions (which I share).  We don't exit, because we all see the staggering potential of EN (done right).  And it will be - when the VCs have been bought out by [witholding my guess].  I agree with whomever pointed out that competition would make a difference.  But - there is no competition with remotely comparable potential.

 

/Schooner

 

Hi. Interesting thoughts. With a new CFO, I think they are headed for the long-awaited FPO, and will not be bought by someone else, but who knows what the future will bring.

https://blog.evernote.com/blog/2015/03/05/evernote-welcomes-cfo-jeff-shotts/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+EvernoteBlog+%28Evernote+Blog%29

 

I don't think we are stuck on dissatisfactions here. We are looking for a tool that meets our needs and it isn't working for us. I don't have a burning desire to use a Caterpillar back-hoe, because it doesn't meet my daily needs, but I recognize the value in it, and I wouldn't discourage anyone from investing in the company. In this case, I think Evernote is a wonderful product, it meets the needs of a wide variety of users, I recommend it to lots of folks all the time, and I think it has a lot of potential. I think they'll be just fine without me or other "power" users, so the complaints here aren't really about the company's viability. It might well be (as I often say) that Evernote ought to ignore us and focus on something else -- I'm not in the company and I don't know what they talk about for their goals.

 

However, some of the issues I have raised for my particular use case aren't with the editor. The editor is just fine for my needs and it has been since they began way back in 2008. My problem is with security / privacy, and without robust encryption options (zero-knowledge encryption of notebooks?) I cannot use it for my professional life. I imagine doctors, lawyers, researchers, company employees handling any intellectual property (nearly everyone), and others would also benefit from such a feature. The fact that few other competitors have it (none in the cross-platform space) doesn't make it any less desirable as a feature. I'd urge Evernote to make it a priority, but I think it might take a Sony-like hack of someone (Evernote, Google, or Microsoft) to make this happen. 

 

As for VCs, I doubt encryption warms the cockles of their hearts, but telling them that the encryption will enable entire industries (the health industry, education industry, etc.) to use the service (tens of thousands of potential business users) might pique their interest :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Personally I am not stuck on dissatisfaction with function but am stuck on dissatisfaction with quality.  I agree wholeheartedly that improved security and some of the other oft repeated requests would enhance and expand the usability of the product.  But it is mind numbing to me to have a product where it does not functionally perform to its own specifications.  

 

Now it isn't debilitating, I can still leverage the product extremely well through workarounds of some sort.  But it creates an environment of sometimes second guessing or looking over one's shoulder because you can't quite be 100% sure.  Someone once told me that when it comes to presentations and developing confidence in your audience, if one number on the page is wrong, they are all wrong.  Simple examples for EN are reminder date search logic and tag syncing, or simplest of all, note counts on the web by themselves or when compared to the desktop.  How can note counts not be the same in a non-synced world?

 

Per all the above though, there is a balancing act between adding the sizzle that attracts investors/users and the infrastructure of the product.  At some point though, I think the two should be on level footing.  That being said, I am still an aggressive user and proponent of EN, the good far outweighs the bad from me at this point..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

How (and why) to use Google Drive as a powerful note-taking tool -- PC World Review

 

The above link is to an extensive article that revealed a number of features, or how-to's, of Google Drive that I was not aware of.

Of course, it makes good use of Google Docs.

 

But it does show you how to do a lot of note-taking tasks, as well as point out some areas where Evernote and/or OneNote are better.

 

I continue to think that Google (or maybe Yahoo) is the 500 LB sleeping guerrilla who, at any point, might wake up and try to grab the PIM and BIM market.  Maybe Google isn't really asleep, since Google Docs/Drive really provide the foundation they would need.  Yahoo continues to try to find their way to regain the dominance they once enjoyed.

 

Hmm, this article is a bit questionable. It's got lots of statements with nothing to back them up.

 

"First of all, all of your docs (or notes in this case) are saved in Google Drive, which has the best search capabilities around, hands-down. That makes it easy to find the note your looking for in a flash. Evernote's search is good, but not as good as Google's." Evidence? Example? Anything? Spellcheck? Bueller?

 

"Finally, using Docs as your note-taking tool of choice prevents that oh-so-annoying scenario when you're trying to remember exactly where you saved a key file. There's no more "Oh, I put that note in Evernote, but the related Word document is in Dropbox, and the image is in OneDrive," et cetera. If you go all-in with Drive, it's all there." Are they unaware you can do this in Evernote, too? Do they even know you can attach files to Evernote? It doesn't sound like they do...

 

And short of collaboration and the Research tool, every single thing they list can be done in Evernote just as easily (if not more so). It's great to mention that one can do these things with Google Drive, of course, but the premise of the article is why you should use Google Drive over other tools like Evernote, and they have very, very little evidence for this. They should have written the article with the spin of Google Drive being a good way to take notes. They should never have brought Evernote up.

 

I love OneNote and Microsoft is doing a lot to make it better on Macs, but the one thing that just KILLS me with every alternative application is the web clipper. Drive and OneNote's clippers are just awful. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

@GrumpyMonkey yeah, I use "Editor" as emblematic of one among my pet peeves, though the biggest is simply "imagine what this thing COULD do if only...". 

 

The issue IMO is that the CEO/board are fiduciaries of whom... VCs, not us customers.  PL may cater to our interests only where they happily coincide with those of the shareholders; it is otherwise impermissible to subordinate their interests to ours.

Client interests are further diluted by the questionable practice of free subscribers - an echo of the newspaper game, inflates the counts by removing the defection test for customer duration.

I suppose it's a sign of being in my 50s, but I have to confess a growing apprehension that there's an another obstacle to perfection (EN among many):  ill-conceived, poorly-implemented software features contrived by youngsters who haven't a clue how business/professions actually function.

 

/Schooner

Share this post


Link to post

@GrumpyMonkey yeah, I use "Editor" as emblematic of one among my pet peeves, though the biggest is simply "imagine what this thing COULD do if only...". 

 

The issue IMO is that the CEO/board are fiduciaries of whom... VCs, not us customers.  PL may cater to our interests only where they happily coincide with those of the shareholders; it is otherwise impermissible to subordinate their interests to ours.

Client interests are further diluted by the questionable practice of free subscribers - an echo of the newspaper game, inflates the counts by removing the defection test for customer duration.

I suppose it's a sign of being in my 50s, but I have to confess a growing apprehension that there's an another obstacle to perfection (EN among many):  ill-conceived, poorly-implemented software features contrived by youngsters who haven't a clue how business/professions actually function.

 

/Schooner

 

Everything you say may be true, moaning about it once might get the attention of the EN employee who reads these threads & perhaps he/she will do something with it in the future, no one knows. But continued moaning about it is not going to change anything.

Why not just accept EN with its shortcomings & use other apps where EN comes up short. It would be nice to be able to do everything under 1 roof but nothing is perfect in this world, so you might as well save yourself some stress & stop ranting. Or, alternatively, drop EN altogether.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

But continued moaning about it is not going to change anything.

 

Why not just accept EN with its shortcomings & use other apps where EN comes up short. 

 

I disagree.  Of course, it depends on what you mean by "moaning".  I would agree that whining is not likely to achieve change.

 

But I wouldn't use the word "moaning".  I'd say voicing legitimate complaints, backed up with some real world examples.

 

When a real issues exists, if the people who suffer from the issue quit complaining, then those that are causing the issue might assume the issue is no longer a problem, or at least assume that people can and have learned to live with the issue.

 

Continuing to make your voice heard about legitimate issues is what I call perseverance.  Sometimes one has to persevere for a long time to achieve real change.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Everything you say may be true, moaning about it once might get the attention of the EN employee who reads these threads & perhaps he/she will do something with it in the future, no one knows. But continued moaning about it is not going to change anything.

Why not just accept EN with its shortcomings & use other apps where EN comes up short. It would be nice to be able to do everything under 1 roof but nothing is perfect in this world, so you might as well save yourself some stress & stop ranting. Or, alternatively, drop EN altogether.

 

Precisely.  Aeroflot's 1962 continuous improvement policy concisely captured.  So long as there's no competition, you're bang on.

 

One appreciates that fora of this nature naturally attract complaints, issues, expressions of dissatisfaction - of which respected longstanding contributors grow visibly weary from time to time.  Our faith endures: that they equally appreciate one is less inclined to use this venue to express delight.  That particular service we cheerfully and invaluably render daily through excited referrals to colleagues.

 

/Schooner

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

I disagree.  Of course, it depends on what you mean by "moaning".  I would agree that whining is not likely to achieve change.

 

But I wouldn't use the word "moaning".  I'd say voicing legitimate complaints, backed up with some real world examples.

 

When a real issues exists, if the people who suffer from the issue quit complaining, then those that are causing the issue might assume the issue is no longer a problem, or at least assume that people can and have learned to live with the issue.

 

Continuing to make your voice heard about legitimate issues is what I call perseverance.  Sometimes one has to persevere for a long time to achieve real change.

 

 

Your argumentation seems sensible, but it is flawed, and you as a veteran of this forum should know better. The name of this forum is General Discussion, which means people can discuss their issues, ask for help, etc. If someone has raised an issue here & it is discussed at length, there is no point in keeping it up by moaning because Evernote will not take any notice. The only things they take notice of are the complaints tickets that people submit. And if enough people raise a ticket about the same issue Evernote will take real decisive action. They do not take action about things that are moaned about.

Share this post


Link to post

Precisely.  Aeroflot's 1962 continuous improvement policy concisely captured.  So long as there's no competition, you're bang on.

 

One appreciates that fora of this nature naturally attract complaints, issues, expressions of dissatisfaction - of which respected longstanding contributors grow visibly weary from time to time.  Our faith endures: that they equally appreciate one is less inclined to use this venue to express delight.  That particular service we cheerfully and invaluably render daily through excited referrals to colleagues.

 

/Schooner

 

 

I don't know about Aeroflot, it is an airline I have never used nor followed any of its continuous improvement policies, so you have 1 up on me there.

Like I answered to JMichael above, if you have a serious issue, the only way Evernote will address it for your case is if you submit a ticket. If others raise a ticket with the same issue they (Evernote) are likely to take a more structural approach.

So, if you don't want to get stuck with your frustrations, take decisive action yourself. Having said all that, this is a free forum so of course you are allowed to keep moaning. But I would have thought someone at your age would know better, and, believe me, I am speaking from experience ;)

Share this post


Link to post

I guess that this is what this topic has come down to: trying to make meaningful distinction between "moaning" and "whining"...

Share this post


Link to post

I guess that this is what this topic has come down to: trying to make meaningful distinction between "moaning" and "whining"...

 

Neither of which are a useful contribution to this forum.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Nevertheless, I like both whining and moaning at times, even if neither of them add any value to my life or help me in any practical sense.

Anyways, I just calculated very precisely that roughly 87% of the posts on the EN forum contain anywhere from mild to aggressive moaning and whining. I find it very stimulating and often entertaining. It's the spice of life. It makes me feel very human and not so alone ;-)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...