Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Since I started this thread, I would like to point out that there would be NO DISCUSSION regarding EN alternatives if EN were not consistently alienating its subscriber base: whether it be poor management... poor tech support... poor development practices (ignoring subscribers). This thread is simply the result of corporate NON-RESPONSIVENESS to subscribers over months and years. No one is at fault here other than Evernote itself... not EN subscribers.

 

Having said this, from my point of view, it is not INCONSIDERATE to engage in these conversations because EN has created the NEED and the BREACH CONFIDENCE even amongst its power users... who so have a vested interest in the immediate and long term success and viability of EN who is housing subscriber proprietary databases and information. Subscribers have been given reason to have a LEGITIMATE concern about the EN service and business practices due to EN disregard for subscriber concerns and needs.

 

 

I hope this proves helpful.

 

Alan

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Alan.

Agree, maybe not to the depth of the rhetoric above. Problems definitely exist. Do I imagine you pounding the pulpit in the INSTANCES above? ;-)

Share this post


Link to post

Alan.

Agree, maybe not to the depth of the rhetoric above. Problems definitely exist. Do I imagine you pounding the pulpit in the INSTANCES above? ;-)

 

I don't know what you mean by pounding the pulpit... other than I'm peeved this is the 4th PIM / database I have gone with over the past 6-years to experience similiar management dissassociation from subscribers and all that comes with it.

 

Additionally, this thread is not about RHETORIC... it's about NON-PERMORANCE. From my point of view, it's one more provider who has not performed as represented. Outside of this, I have no axe to grind.

 

Alan

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

rhet·o·ric (noun)

the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing, especially the use of figures of speech and other compositional techniques.

= ALL CAPS.

I agree 100% that this thread is about significant issues that EN as a company is facing. And it is good to know that there are power users who are passionate about the product. It's the level of drama that I don't get. Problem with interpreting the written word versus all of the nice visual cues we get when we actually converse with someone I suppose.

Consumers vote with their feet. As is obvious by this thread, some are working their way up to a jog. I guess it's just not as dire for me at this point. That being said, these forums and trouble tickets are the best outlet we have for reporting the stuff that just does not work per spec, transparency and service included. Taller order to modify a company's culture from here though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

(1) Re "Pounding the pulpit"

This is a reference to preaching.  Like the old story: A kid looked at his Dad's preaching/sermon notes.  In the margin is written "argument weak here, pound the pulpit and shout like h-ell"

 

@Alan We do not think your argument is weak.  But if you were saying this over a coffee or something stronger, we can imagine you getting a tad animated.

 

(2) Re Rightnote.  I saw the report on this, way up in this thread.

But no response to the "have you checked it out?" question.

 

Anyone?  Or do I have to get my hands dirty.

 

(3) Reflection: the cross platform issue is big.  There are some good Mac only or PC only options it seems.

 

(4) Investigated some free forums last night, and considered LinkedIn (but their business ethics are pretty low and client unfriendly)  Nothing to suggest yet.

 

Regards

 

-Derek

Share this post


Link to post

Taller order to modify a company's culture from here though.

Very good point!  But wouldn't you like to sit in on a meeting and share a thought or two?!

 

Although I don't dare place myself in their category, I did however, learn from the "Greatest Generation" in many aspects of life.  Business was one.  EN needs a bit more growth in...(well, I am left without the proper words)...Anyone?

Share this post


Link to post

I used to be an Evernote Premium user - now I use OneNote. I mostly changed because of the better way it handles tables. I understand the Mac version of Evernote has been updated to handle tables in a reasonable way - so if / when the Windows version catches up I may be back.

 

For those keeping score, here are some quirks of OneNote.

 

The web clipping is terrible. I've tried Clip To OneNote and can't get that to work either. On my desktop I just cut and paste which is OK. On my andriod phone I'm out of luck.

 

The Notebook Hierarchy of OneNote is a little strange. In theory it has this many levels:

Notebook -> Section Group -> Sub Group -> Section -> Page -> Sub Page.

The Pages are like Evernote notes. But they much be under a section. The rest is handled in the file directory system with folders and sub foulders. So if you want a Page under a Section Group you can't do it without putting a section in between. So it does have more hierarchy than Evernote but it's a little quirky till you figure this out.

 

The tagging system is also different. Evernote Tags apply to notes, OneNote tags apply to lines of text. So you can have many different tags in the same note. The notes include images like arrows and things like colored highlighting if you want. You can make your own tags. And you can't exactly search for tags but you can generate a list of all tags in a notebook, or section etc.

 

FYI - I don't use drawing so can't comment on that.

 

Also I'm using the free version of OneNote 2013 which stores my stuff  in the cloud (Microsoft's One Drive) so it syncs well between my Laptop (Windows 8.1) my Desktop (Windows 7) and my phone (android) but it's a bit slow and clunky on the phone. Also the links to Pages are much more convoluted in OneNote. They are hyperlink - so the visible text is OK but if you need the underlying link it's about 8 miles long.

 

Hope that helps.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

 

Taller order to modify a company's culture from here though.

Very good point!  But wouldn't you like to sit in on a meeting and share a thought or two?!

 

Although I don't dare place myself in their category, I did however, learn from the "Greatest Generation" in many aspects of life.  Business was one.  EN needs a bit more growth in...(well, I am left without the proper words)...Anyone?

 

I think I would enjoy sitting in a meeting or two, if for no other reason that to get a sense of how the world is viewed in ENland.  Tough enough picking the proper words for myself. but quality comes to mind for me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

(2) Re Rightnote.  I saw the report on this, way up in this thread.

But no response to the "have you checked it out?" question.

 

 

Howdy, Derek:

 

See post #41 - RE: RightNote

Share this post


Link to post

..And as to sitting in on meetings,  there's an EverCon coming up next month - anyone planning to go?  That would be a chance to ask some pertinent questions...

Share this post


Link to post

..And as to sitting in on meetings,  there's an EverCon coming up next month - anyone planning to go?  That would be a chance to ask some pertinent questions...

 

Is it real or is it a con? LOL

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Evercon 4: https://evernote.com/ec/ (Not to be confused with http://evercon.org/)

 

1.00 on the Thursday - Breakout sessions and Workshops: talk - State of the Platform - Chris Traganos — Director of Developer Relations, Evernote
https://evernote.com/ec/#schedule - Sounds good.  Does anyone know this guy and could we ask that this be recorded and posted in YouTube?
 
Sadly the work of one of the most interesting looking speakers (as in "practical and applied") seems to be in Spanish.  https://www.youtube.com/user/vladcampos
 
Josh Zerkel is new to Evernote (last month) eg http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2010/01/20/6-ways-evernote-can-boost-your-productivity-guest-post-by-joshua-zerkel/  Here's hoping some new blood may help!!
 
http://moearora.com/ Moe Orara looks interesting as well.
 
Now I know why printing in Evernote sucks.  ""paperless" seems to be a theme in some of the articles here.
 
I wonder if these guys ever have a syncing, printing, data, formating, presenting or error problem?  I wonder do they care about us poor EN forum inhabiters?  I wonder if they will use EN presenter?
 
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=evernote gives lots and lots of videos, I've never watched one of them.  Maybe I should.  
 
So: this does look an interesting lineup, even if a bit of a talk fest.  No "Feedback to Evernote" sessions.  Paul Libin CEO will be there as well.
 
Who is nearest to it? https://evernote.com/ec/#location  Someone or more should go.
 
My 2c
 
-Derek

Share this post


Link to post

Ideally, hundreds of us would show up, but I know that's not feasible.  But honestly, I don't think it would matter, just like none of the discussions other moderators and I had a few months ago with EN staff and just like none of the chatter here on the board has made an impact.  (Ok, maybe it's made an impact, but nothing that's visible to us...which would be important, since so many (including me) are either abandoning EN or reducing our reliance upon it.)  But at least we'd be going down with a fight.   IMO, Libin may still be the figurehead, but someone else is pulling the strings.  But who knows...maybe a year or two from now, EN will have done something amazing & we will all be in love with that.  In the mean time, it's simply not working very well for me now.  And that's what I need...now.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Ideally, hundreds of us would show up, but I know that's not feasible.  But honestly, I don't think it would matter, just like none of the discussions other moderators and I had a few months ago with EN staff and just like none of the chatter here on the board has made an impact.  (Ok, maybe it's made an impact, but nothing that's visible to us...which would be important, since so many (including me) are either abandoning EN or reducing our reliance upon it.)  But at least we'd be going down with a fight.   IMO, Libin may still be the figurehead, but someone else is pulling the strings.  But who knows...maybe a year or two from now, EN will have done something amazing & we will all be in love with that.  In the mean time, it's simply not working very well for me now.  And that's what I need...now.

 

Howdy, BNF:

 

Agreed... there's no reason to expect change until EN starts hurt'n due to serious competition.

 

Curious to know... what is working for you now?

 

Alan

Share this post


Link to post

Howdy, BNF:

Agreed... there's no reason to expect change until EN starts hurt'n due to serious competition.

Curious to know... what is working for you now?

Alan

 

Sorry, but I have already commented on that in this thread (and a few others). I will not remove my comments, but I will also not contribute any more details because...

 

 

@ JM

- It seems inconsiderate to use the Evernote forum to discuss the ins and outs of leaving the service.

I agree...

 

FWIW, although I've contributed to this thread, out of respect to Evernote, I think it's best to discuss some of the finer points of migrating away from EN NOT on their message board. I was hoping to look into someplace to do that but simply have not had the time. If anyone would care to research this & set something up & PM those who have publicly stated they are/may be interested in such a board, then that may be a more respectful way to share information. JMO.

I know there are some software message boards that will not allow posters to mention the name of competitive products & will edit your post, if you do.  (Coffeecup software is one.)  Evernote has never done this - they have always allowed other products to be mentioned.  However, discussing the finer points of migrating away from the service is quite different from simply mentioning other products or discussing the reasons one is leaving Evernote.

 

If anyone finds an existing or creates a board on transitioning from Evernote, I will be happy to contribute. But I will not mention any more details on this board, out of respect for Evernote. And I will not respond to PMs on the topic b/c I don't have the time or inclination to deal with the topic on an individual basis.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

@gazumped,

 

Thinking more in terms of the sessions where strategy of product and delivery occur.  The sessions where what we as consumers see and feel is begot.  The practical side of implementing the purpose, vision, mission, whatever you want to call it.  Kind of where the heart of the beast is built.  The agenda appears to be more a set of practicum sessions.  Still never bad to mix with the folks.  Though not being near SF is a constraint.   :)

Share this post


Link to post

I used to be an Evernote Premium user - now I use OneNote. I mostly changed because of the better way it handles tables. I understand the Mac version of Evernote has been updated to handle tables in a reasonable way - so if / when the Windows version catches up I may be back.

From a quick look at ON videos, it seems ON doesn't support any calculations in their tables, which is what I was hoping for (simple calcs). What aspects of tables does ON handle better than EN?

 

For those keeping score, here are some quirks of OneNote.

 

The web clipping is terrible. I've tried Clip To OneNote and can't get that to work either. On my desktop I just cut and paste which is OK. On my andriod phone I'm out of luck.

 

The Notebook Hierarchy of OneNote is a little strange. In theory it has this many levels:

Notebook -> Section Group -> Sub Group -> Section -> Page -> Sub Page.

The Pages are like Evernote notes. But they much be under a section. The rest is handled in the file directory system with folders and sub foulders. So if you want a Page under a Section Group you can't do it without putting a section in between. So it does have more hierarchy than Evernote but it's a little quirky till you figure this out.

 

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. Yeah, from the videos I've seen, the web clipping is awful. But given how obvious this must be to ON and how important a feature this is for many people using an information mgr app, I would guess we can expect to see improvements here.

 

Almost seems like too much hierarchy now that I've gotten used to tagging in EN.

 

If you have a page in multiple sections, is it possible to keep them connected such that a change in one page carries over to the other instances of that page? Or is it like having the same file in multiple folders, where a change in one file does not affect the other copies of that file?

 

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

From a quick look at ON videos, it seems ON doesn't support any calculations in their tables, which is what I was hoping for (simple calcs). What aspects of tables does ON handle better than EN?

 

In OneNote you can convert a table to an excel spreadsheet. After editing, save it & close the spreadsheet. The table then shows the update.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

<GROAN>

 

Sorry, won't joke again here.

 

 

Don't stop on my account - I was just giving that one the appreciation it deserved   :P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

 

From a quick look at ON videos, it seems ON doesn't support any calculations in their tables, which is what I was hoping for (simple calcs). What aspects of tables does ON handle better than EN?

 

In OneNote you can convert a table to an excel spreadsheet. After editing, save it & close the spreadsheet. The table then shows the update.

 

So the ON page/note shows the updated spreadsheet table's values. Pretty cool. Do edits go the other way - i.e., edits in ON show up in spreadsheet? Or is it just one way edits from spreadsheet to ON?

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

 

 

From a quick look at ON videos, it seems ON doesn't support any calculations in their tables, which is what I was hoping for (simple calcs). What aspects of tables does ON handle better than EN?

 

In OneNote you can convert a table to an excel spreadsheet. After editing, save it & close the spreadsheet. The table then shows the update.

 

So the ON page/note shows the updated spreadsheet table's values. Pretty cool. Do edits go the other way - i.e., edits in ON show up in spreadsheet? Or is it just one way edits from spreadsheet to ON?

 

 

I believe it's 1-way only, but I am not a OneNote expert.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Has anyone ever used or investigated Intellinote?  https://www.intellinote.net

 

Very interesting  Their video is very good.  Their pricing seems very reasonable: FREE for individual users/small groups,  $10/mo for groups > 5.

 

Collaboration seems to be their strong suit.  While Evernote claims it provides "collaboration", it does NOT provide the collaboration that is generally accepted, that most users expect.  Sharing is NOT collaboration, IMO.

 

What is not clear is whether or not they have Win and Mac apps, or all is done via a web app. 

 

I have requested more info.  

Share this post


Link to post

From what I have read, they are a web based solution for laptops and desktops with an android app and iOS app.

So, yes! I am intrigued!

Share this post


Link to post

From what I understand it is only for work because the core of it it is collaboration. It cannot be applied for home use, if I am not mistaken.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Did I also see a 2GB limit in the details?  Is that monthly / annually / ever??

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe a different market than EN?  Looks like a new world CRM of sorts.

Share this post


Link to post

From what I understand it is only for work because the core of it it is collaboration. It cannot be applied for home use, if I am not mistaken.

 

It appears, all you need is an email address for anyone you wish to collaborate with.  They then need at least the free version in order to participate.  So, work or at home, from my perspective.

Share this post


Link to post

Did I also see a 2GB limit in the details?  Is that monthly / annually / ever??

Per month, from what I read.

Share this post


Link to post

Has anyone ever used or investigated Intellinote?  https://www.intellinote.net

 

Howdy, Sentinel:

 

It looks like Intellinote is primarily designed to be a collaboration tools, so the intent behind it is quite different from EN.

 

 

Appreciate your brining Intellinote to the table.   :)

 

Alan

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Done the searches already and signed in to Intellinote.

Appears to be a very clever package, but need to investigate more.

No way of importing Evenote Notes at the moment though.

Regards

Chris

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

There are some promising options. But as for me, I'm of tired of migrating over the years through various apps/PIM platforms. I was confident that my migration to Evernote (the first multi-platform, cloud PIM - because back then, EN WAS a PERSONAL information manager) would be the last. Since I was wrong on that count, I'm reluctant to go with anything new or relatively new. So I'm sticking with OneNote. Although I've used ON for many years, in the past, I only used it for brainstorming big/bigger projects. That's where I think ON shines. I preferred EN for my Rolodex, everything I would write on a PostIt or the back of an envelope or in my PIM. Notes that pretty much stand on their own merit. IE, at Michael's, the magnets are on the aisle with mirrors & Krafty Bloks. Or...I want to get this item, but I'm not going to get it today. So I'm snapping a photo of it so I can put it on my wish list and compare the price (in the photo) with other places. Evernote was PERFECT for these types of notes. That's why I never felt EN & ON were competitors. These days, I don't know what Evernote thinks it is. It's failing (for me) as a PIM.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

There are some promising options. But as for me, I'm of tired of migrating over the years through various apps/PIM platforms. I was confident that my migration to Evernote (the first multi-platform, cloud PIM - because back then, EN WAS a PERSONAL information manager) would be the last. Since I was wrong on that count, I'm reluctant to go with anything new or relatively new. So I'm sticking with OneNote. Although I've used ON for many years, in the past, I only used it for brainstorming big/bigger projects. That's where I think ON shines. I preferred EN for my Rolodex, everything I would write on a PostIt or the back of an envelope or in my PIM. Notes that pretty much stand on their own merit. IE, at Michael's, the magnets are on the aisle with mirrors & Krafty Bloks. Or...I want to get this item, but I'm not going to get it today. So I'm snapping a photo of it so I can put it on my wish list and compare the price (in the photo) with other places. Evernote was PERFECT for these types of notes. That's why I never felt EN & ON were competitors. These days, I don't know what Evernote thinks it is. It's failing (for me) as a PIM.

 

Is the app failing as a PIM or the company failing to give you the support you expect? I suspect it is the latter because it is the latter that has changed for the worse of late, not the former.

Share this post


Link to post

Probably the former. BNF has posted elsewhere about her trouble maintaining a large database. It (her duet account) is a pretty kludgy and often unworkable system, from what I understand. I doubt BNF used customer service much, and even when she did, as a Premium member, she probably hasn't seen a major change. I'm sure she can elaborate.

For me, if I'm putting something on the cloud, it needs to be encrypted. We don't have it, so I can't make as much use of Evernote as I'd like. Times have changed (actually, we've just become more aware of vulnerabilities that were always there) and it is time for Evernote to change too.

Also, if I'm investing time and energy in using a product, developer support for features also needs to be consistent and clearly communicated. I can't have sharing here one day and gone the next, for example. I've encountered too many suddenly missing or broken things over the years (see other posts in the forum), and I really think Evernote needs to rethink its strategy in this regard. Partially, it's about bugs, but it is also about systemic issues as well.

As for customer service, I have strong opinions about what ought to be done in principle (see my other posts), but for my own use case,the recent changes have had a relatively small impact on me.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the response GM, I doubt BNF will chime in when remarks come from me. I don't want to talk on her behalf but seem to remember some comments from her where she said that when she tried to get support for her free account none was forthcoming, which drove the complaints from other free users home for her. But I also remember her complaints about EN yanking out features without any advance notice or discussion.

Anyway, I agree with your points, particularly the last one about the impact.The way I use EN I also felt a small impact only.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the response GM, I doubt BNF will chime in when remarks come from me. I don't want to talk on her behalf but seem to remember some comments from her where she said that when she tried to get support for her free account none was forthcoming, which drove the complaints from other free users home for her. But I also remember her complaints about EN yanking out features without any advance notice or discussion.

Anyway, I agree with your points, particularly the last one about the impact.The way I use EN I also felt a small impact only.

 

I don't want to speak for her, either, but here I go: I think (if I recall correctly) that BNF mentioned she didn't receive a response to a test ticket she submitted from her free user account. At the time it was unclear whether free users were receiving support or not, and we wanted to know if we should even bother telling friends, family, fellow users on the forum, etc. to submit a ticket. Now, we know the answer.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for the response GM, I doubt BNF will chime in when remarks come from me.

I don't know why you'd say that. 

 

Is the app failing as a PIM or the company failing to give you the support you expect? I suspect it is the latter because it is the latter that has changed for the worse of late, not the former.

GM is correct in his replies.  It is the former.  My "duet" system was a workaround b/c Evernote does not scale well. My main account (over 62,000 notes & over 35 gigs) is absolutely unusable on the Windows and iOS clients. (Please search the board on 'duet' for more info, if you're interested.)  I was having to use the web client on my PC & Clever on my iDevices with my big account & EN Windows client (PC) and iOS app for my daily/duey account.  I could share notebooks from the big account to the daily account.  But then sharing started being problematic.  (Please search the board for my posts on "ghost notes" for more information, if you're interested.)  And then the web client search is faulty - simply missing some notes that clearly (NPI) should have been in the results pane.  As long as I thought these issues were being addressed, I was willing to put up with these workarounds & core-feature-big-time-bugs.  But it's clear to me (IMO) that currently, Evernote has divorced itself from its userbase.  Maybe they are going through growing pains & much of what is going on at the mother ship is like re-breaking a badly healing bone so it will heal correctly.  I don't know.  I do know that when I start having to use workarounds because a system doesn't work correctly and then they (EN) start breaking my workarounds so I need to use workarounds for my workarounds, that it's time for me to bail.  I have lost all confidence & brand loyalty and need to cut my losses, move on & go to a system that I am more confident will be around & useful to me next year, the year after & the years after that.  Evernote strove to be a 100 year company.  From my seat in the stands, they will be lucky to make it to 10.

 

And yes, my complaint about the lack of a reply to a support ticket was simply a test from a free account  b/c as GM said, several months ago, we moderators noticed a larger than normal number of posts on the board of users complaining about not receiving a reply to their support ticket.  We (moderators) had privately addressed this to EN staff & received no reply of any substance. So it was just a test.  Both my main & daily/duet accounts are premium, so I can (supposedly) get timely replies to my support tickets.  However, I have not submitted a support ticket, since the chaos began at Evernote.  And unfortunately, all the tickets I have submitted in the past few years are things that are not able to be fixed by someone at a support desk.  My tickets require a fix by the developers b/c they are things like scalability, "ghost notes" in shared notebooks, different search results between the various clients (web, Windows, iOS for me) and note count.  I mean, if the SOP for fixing a problem is to rebuild your database from the servers, then for crimony sake, at least give me the ability to confirm all my notes in my Windows client match what the Evernote servers show, before I rebuild my Windows client database.  

 

I don't want to speak for her, either, but here I go: I think (if I recall correctly) that BNF mentioned she didn't receive a response to a test ticket she submitted from her free user account. At the time it was unclear whether free users were receiving support or not, and we wanted to know if we should even bother telling friends, family, fellow users on the forum, etc. to submit a ticket. Now, we know the answer.

These days, I don't post much b/c I feel there is not much more for me to contribute.  I am using an older version of the Windows client b/c I don't trust the upgrades.  So if someone complains that a new version does something or doesn't do something, I cannot comment except to say it used to behave a certain way in the past.  As stated earlier in this thread, out of respect for EN, I won't discuss (on this board) details of my migration to Onenote.  And when someone complains about the quality of customer service or that the Windows client is so darned sloooooow, etc, I have to agree. And finally, I'm having to devote a lot of time to learning/adapting to a new PIM & migrating my notes to it. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

The scalability issues raised by GM, BNF and others have persuaded me to limit the number/size of pictures and document scans I keep in EN. I know many of the guides and books out there recommend putting all that stuff in EN, and I think many users who take that advice are going to eventually regret it.

 

As stated earlier in this thread, out of respect for EN, I won't discuss (on this board) details of my migration to Onenote.  And when someone complains about the quality of customer service or that the Windows client is so darned sloooooow, etc, I have to agree. And finally, I'm having to devote a lot of time to learning/adapting to a new PIM & migrating my notes to it. 

Is there a discussion forum/site for ON that you are using?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I am 100% on board with the issues detailed in this thread relative to EN's lack of support, poor communications, and quality control issues.  EN is not a well run company at the moment.  On the other hand, my use case has not been impacted that much by all of the above.  In fact, the most recent Windows releases brought back instantaneous searches and response times.  I don't get the not responding message anymore.  The IOS versions are as quick.  Not as big a data base as most on here I suppose, 15GB, 26k notes, 60% synced/40% local, but hopefully enough to test the beast.. 

 

I guess I am not motivated to toss in the towel at this point.  The pain of changing my practices and learning something new outweighs the pain of dealing with EN.  It just isn't hurting bad enough yet.  Maybe they will fix themselves, maybe they won't.  For sure I am doing automated ENEX backups until that is determined.

 

I may be just fully missing something (wouldn't be the first time), am being totally myopic, or just have my head firmly in the sand, or someplace else.  So best alternative to En for me at the moment is EN.  FWIW.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I guess I am not motivated to toss in the towel at this point.  The pain of changing my practices and learning something new outweighs the pain of dealing with EN.  It just isn't hurting bad enough yet.  Maybe they will fix themselves, maybe they won't.  For sure I am doing automated ENEX backups until that is determined.

 

I may be just fully missing something (wouldn't be the first time), am being totally myopic, or just have my head firmly in the sand, or someplace else.  So best alternative to En for me at the moment is EN.  FWIW.

I'm in a similar boat. I could switch to ON, but I don't think it's better suited (yet) for my purposes. But the various issues with EN, as well as with management's communication with users, has me concerned and on the lookout for a potential replacement if/when the time comes.

 

Given EN's seeming shift toward business users, I found some of the recent business user posts amusing. Some of the issues they are facing reveal just how difficult it will be for EN to become polished enough to really gain significant traction in that space.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

...But as for me, I'm of tired of migrating over the years through various apps/PIM platforms. I was confident that my migration to Evernote (the first multi-platform, cloud PIM - because back then, EN WAS a PERSONAL information manager) would be the last. Since I was wrong on that count, I'm reluctant to go with anything new or relatively new. 

 

I could not say it better!

 

With this in mind, I am having difficulty migrating toward anything that will not allow my OS to search for and use my files without the app that organized them.  (I think I said that right) Thus, having an app to organize the files in their original format, with the ability to clip items (web, email, etc) into a format I can readily use a basic app for editing, etc.   

 

Otherwise, in 2-3 years, I should only expect to face the same dilemma I am faced with now!  I too, had placed all my "expectations" in EN for that long term use.  Now I am having to use anti-bacterial creme and a band-aid on that bite I recently received!  And it stings!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Is there a discussion forum/site for ON that you are using?

I am setting one up where alternatives can be discussed as well as tips & tricks for migrating to Onenote. I will share what I am learning. Anyone who is interested, please PM me. I will let you know when it's ready (won't be today - possibly tomorrow).

To clarify, I am setting up an alternative site to discuss these issues freely, solely out of respect for the fact that this is the Evernote forum. I think it's in poor taste to discuss the finer details of leaving EN on their own message board.  IMO, it's a bit like setting up a date with your new boyfriend while your old boyfriend is still in the room, packing up his stuff.  :D

EDIT: BTW, the forum I'm working on is also open to EN staff. I realize it's a bit of a conflict of interest. But maybe it's also something you'd find interesting/helpful, too. You're not prohibited from joining. I just don't want to utilize EN's resources to discuss this topic  .  I promise I won't let anyone flame you.  ;)

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

I edited the above post, but just so people know it...

EDIT: BTW, the forum I'm working on is also open to EN staff. I realize it's a bit of a conflict of interest. But maybe it's also something you'd find interesting/helpful, too. You're not prohibited from joining. I just don't want to utilize EN's resources to discuss this topic.  I promise I won't let anyone flame you.  ;)

Share this post


Link to post

Will your forum support the potentially huge Linux market?

(Runs (again))

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

Is there a discussion forum/site for ON that you are using?

I am setting one up where alternatives can be discussed as well as tips & tricks for migrating to Onenote. I will share what I am learning. Anyone who is interested, please PM me. I will let you know when it's ready (won't be today - possibly tomorrow).

To clarify, I am setting up an alternative site to discuss these issues freely, solely out of respect for the fact that this is the Evernote forum. I think it's in poor taste to discuss the finer details of leaving EN on their own message board.  IMO, it's a bit like setting up a date with your new boyfriend while your old boyfriend is still in the room, packing up his stuff.  :D

EDIT: BTW, the forum I'm working on is also open to EN staff. I realize it's a bit of a conflict of interest. But maybe it's also something you'd find interesting/helpful, too. You're not prohibited from joining. I just don't want to utilize EN's resources to discuss this topic  .  I promise I won't let anyone flame you.  ;)

 

 

It's up & running.  If I missed sending you the URL, please let me know. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

BNF,

Thanks for your honest assessment.

 

ETA:  I'd been on the fence for some time re the instability and user deadzoning.  It all feels like that anti-littering PSA where the Native American guy surveys what his beloved landscape has become, then turns toward the camera with a tear rolling down one cheek.

Edited by Machine2473

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

Is there a discussion forum/site for ON that you are using?

I am setting one up where alternatives can be discussed as well as tips & tricks for migrating to Onenote. I will share what I am learning. Anyone who is interested, please PM me. I will let you know when it's ready (won't be today - possibly tomorrow).

To clarify, I am setting up an alternative site to discuss these issues freely, solely out of respect for the fact that this is the Evernote forum. I think it's in poor taste to discuss the finer details of leaving EN on their own message board.  IMO, it's a bit like setting up a date with your new boyfriend while your old boyfriend is still in the room, packing up his stuff.  :D

EDIT: BTW, the forum I'm working on is also open to EN staff. I realize it's a bit of a conflict of interest. But maybe it's also something you'd find interesting/helpful, too. You're not prohibited from joining. I just don't want to utilize EN's resources to discuss this topic  .  I promise I won't let anyone flame you.  ;)

 

 

It's up & running.  If I missed sending you the URL, please let me know. 

 

 

Thanks BNF.  Can you please post the URL here?  If not, then a PM will be fine.

Share this post


Link to post

 

It's up & running.  If I missed sending you the URL, please let me know. 

 

Apparently I can't send a PM? I'm interested

 

Might be a post count limitation; i.e., you don't have enough posts yet to access the messaging system. I tried sending you a PM and got a message saying you can't use it yet.

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

It's up & running.  If I missed sending you the URL, please let me know. 

 

Apparently I can't send a PM? I'm interested

 

Might be a post count limitation; i.e., you don't have enough posts yet to access the messaging system. I tried sending you a PM and got a message saying you can't use it yet.

 

Thanks, I'm sure that's it. Couldn't find anything in the documentation though.

Share this post


Link to post

Evernote conference next week.

 

Here's hoping they bother to read a little bit of the feedback in the forums.

 

 

-Derek

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Here is my latest update with EN Support as of today.


 


If you use a Third Party App integration with Evernote, please BECAREFUL!


 


I submitted a ticket requesting an update on the Open Ticket I had regarding Notes and Notebooks appearing in my account in June 2014.  After numerous emails back and forth with Terry O., and much incentive from me, it was finally determined the Notes & Notebooks that appeared in my account came from two sources, which are third party apps which can be used in conjunction with Evernote:  SpringPad Migration Tool and CloudHQ


 


-In June 2014, I connected CloudHQ to my Evernote account for use as backup.  I disconnected that account later in June 2014 when I discovered these Notes and Notebooks appearing.


-I have never had a SpringPad Account.


 


It was determined that some of the Notes and Notebooks that were not mine but found their way into my account, was done via CloudHQ.  I still do not know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.


 


Evernote assures my NONE of MY Notes or Notebooks have been inadvertently placed in someone else's account.  Okay!


 


Other Notes and Notebooks appeared in my account from SpringPad’s Migration Tool from SpringPad to Evernote in June 2014.  I still don’t know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.  I did not have a SpringPad account, so whatever SpringPad sent to my account was not my information.  Interesting!  I wonder how many people have not noticed this happening to their account.


 


Evernote does not initiate any moving of data into their service from a third party applicatin without someone authorizing that transfer of data.  It seems both of the third party apps mentioned above transferred data into my Evernote account in error.  Somehow, CloudHQ crosswired someone else’s Evernote data into my Evernote account.  I have not addressed this issue with CloudHQ as of yet.  I wanted to get one investigation done at time.


 


As for SpringPad’s Miigration Tool, well, I simply do not know what to say there.  Somehow, someone’s SpringPad data was inadvertently sent to my Evernote account.  If Evernote said it came from SpringPad, well then, I guess it did, but not from me!  It could not have since I did not have an account with SpringPad.  Since SpringPad does not exist anymore, I guess I will never find out.


 


Both of these issues came on the heels of another user having someone elses data “emailed” into his Evernote account, even after the email account was changed.  I am not sure the results of that investigation.


 


I requested Evernote come out with a public statement addressing these issues in an attempt to be transparent, explainig Evernote did not transfer the data into the accounts, rather a third party app did. I suggested this could only help Evernote with it’s users and their concerns.  No reply from EN on this.


 


In additon, I provided the following to Terry O. during our discussions back and forth:


 


Conerns voiced by other EN Power Users:


 


  • Data NOT Secure in EN (May 2014 a user reported Notes being emailed into his account. Notes contained sensitive data (No one knows if this has been resolved???.  Then Notes appearing in my account without investigation as to why/how -until today-)
  • Extremely Slow Support Service (in the recent months this has become an increasingly worse)
  • EN Support sending Users who submit Support Tickets to the User Forum for help instead of EN Support providing the help.
  • Insufficient Answers from Support (Which is what I was getting in June when no one investigated my support requests as you finally did this time)
  • Removing of Features in the Desktop Clients WITHOUT any discussion from EN with it’s users. (EN simply removed features without telling the users and with no explanation as to why)
  • Poor (NO) Communication from EN about issues the users take serious. No public announcement to the users about the resolution of either case where Notebooks and Notes appeared in a user’s account.  Users need answers to these problems, not excuses, so they can feel comfortable in using the EN service.  But hey, even excuses at this point would be better than what we are receiving, which is nothing.  Silence!  And silence does not foster good relationships, satisfaction, comfort, security, etc.
  • Inexcusable No-Return Policy in your Market.  Not that all power users purchase from EN (too expensive), rather, who wants to trust a company who does not offer a return policy?  Think about the simplicity of return policies in the world of retail, and EN does not have one?  This provides a lack of TRUST IN EVERNOTE.
  • Take my money and run! - all of the above makes the users feel as though EN has no interest in their users.  You just want our money, then run!

 


No reply to me about these issues. 


 


Terry O. simply said that if anyone else has issues they wish to be addressed by Evernote, for them to submit a support ticket.  So, if you share any of the above conerns or any other concerns about Evernote and their service, I encourage you to submit a support ticket.  It seems obvious they are not willing to address these issues any further with me!  I guess I will submit a separate ticket on this. 


 


It seems it is best to address one issue at a time per ticket.


 


Good luck!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

 

Here is my latest update with EN Support as of today.

 

If you use a Third Party App integration with Evernote, please BECAREFUL!

 

I submitted a ticket requesting an update on the Open Ticket I had regarding Notes and Notebooks appearing in my account in June 2014.  After numerous emails back and forth with Terry O., and much incentive from me, it was finally determined the Notes & Notebooks that appeared in my account came from two sources, which are third party apps which can be used in conjunction with Evernote:  SpringPad Migration Tool and CloudHQ

 

-In June 2014, I connected CloudHQ to my Evernote account for use as backup.  I disconnected that account later in June 2014 when I discovered these Notes and Notebooks appearing.

-I have never had a SpringPad Account.

 

It was determined that some of the Notes and Notebooks that were not mine but found their way into my account, was done via CloudHQ.  I still do not know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.

 

Evernote assures my NONE of MY Notes or Notebooks have been inadvertently placed in someone else's account.  Okay!

 

Other Notes and Notebooks appeared in my account from SpringPad’s Migration Tool from SpringPad to Evernote in June 2014.  I still don’t know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.  I did not have a SpringPad account, so whatever SpringPad sent to my account was not my information.  Interesting!  I wonder how many people have not noticed this happening to their account.

 

Evernote does not initiate any moving of data into their service from a third party applicatin without someone authorizing that transfer of data.  It seems both of the third party apps mentioned above transferred data into my Evernote account in error.  Somehow, CloudHQ crosswired someone else’s Evernote data into my Evernote account.  I have not addressed this issue with CloudHQ as of yet.  I wanted to get one investigation done at time.

 

As for SpringPad’s Miigration Tool, well, I simply do not know what to say there.  Somehow, someone’s SpringPad data was inadvertently sent to my Evernote account.  If Evernote said it came from SpringPad, well then, I guess it did, but not from me!  It could not have since I did not have an account with SpringPad.  Since SpringPad does not exist anymore, I guess I will never find out.

 

Both of these issues came on the heels of another user having someone elses data “emailed” into his Evernote account, even after the email account was changed.  I am not sure the results of that investigation.

 

I requested Evernote come out with a public statement addressing these issues in an attempt to be transparent, explainig Evernote did not transfer the data into the accounts, rather a third party app did. I suggested this could only help Evernote with it’s users and their concerns.  No reply from EN on this.

 

In additon, I provided the following to Terry O. during our discussions back and forth:

 

Conerns voiced by other EN Power Users:

 

  • Data NOT Secure in EN (May 2014 a user reported Notes being emailed into his account. Notes contained sensitive data (No one knows if this has been resolved???.  Then Notes appearing in my account without investigation as to why/how -until today-)
  • Extremely Slow Support Service (in the recent months this has become an increasingly worse)
  • EN Support sending Users who submit Support Tickets to the User Forum for help instead of EN Support providing the help.
  • Insufficient Answers from Support (Which is what I was getting in June when no one investigated my support requests as you finally did this time)
  • Removing of Features in the Desktop Clients WITHOUT any discussion from EN with it’s users. (EN simply removed features without telling the users and with no explanation as to why)
  • Poor (NO) Communication from EN about issues the users take serious. No public announcement to the users about the resolution of either case where Notebooks and Notes appeared in a user’s account.  Users need answers to these problems, not excuses, so they can feel comfortable in using the EN service.  But hey, even excuses at this point would be better than what we are receiving, which is nothing.  Silence!  And silence does not foster good relationships, satisfaction, comfort, security, etc.
  • Inexcusable No-Return Policy in your Market.  Not that all power users purchase from EN (too expensive), rather, who wants to trust a company who does not offer a return policy?  Think about the simplicity of return policies in the world of retail, and EN does not have one?  This provides a lack of TRUST IN EVERNOTE.
  • Take my money and run! - all of the above makes the users feel as though EN has no interest in their users.  You just want our money, then run!

 

No reply to me about these issues. 

 

Terry O. simply said that if anyone else has issues they wish to be addressed by Evernote, for them to submit a support ticket.  So, if you share any of the above conerns or any other concerns about Evernote and their service, I encourage you to submit a support ticket.  It seems obvious they are not willing to address these issues any further with me!  I guess I will submit a separate ticket on this. 

 

It seems it is best to address one issue at a time per ticket.

 

Good luck!

 

 

EN can not sustain a viable company as subcriber reports continue to confirm unsustainable poor customer service.

Businesses will read about it... and walk. How unfortunate and shortsighted.

 

Alan

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Here is my latest update with EN Support as of today.

 

If you use a Third Party App integration with Evernote, please BECAREFUL!

 

I submitted a ticket requesting an update on the Open Ticket I had regarding Notes and Notebooks appearing in my account in June 2014.  After numerous emails back and forth with Terry O., and much incentive from me, it was finally determined the Notes & Notebooks that appeared in my account came from two sources, which are third party apps which can be used in conjunction with Evernote:  SpringPad Migration Tool and CloudHQ

 

-In June 2014, I connected CloudHQ to my Evernote account for use as backup.  I disconnected that account later in June 2014 when I discovered these Notes and Notebooks appearing.

-I have never had a SpringPad Account.

 

It was determined that some of the Notes and Notebooks that were not mine but found their way into my account, was done via CloudHQ.  I still do not know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.

 

Evernote assures my NONE of MY Notes or Notebooks have been inadvertently placed in someone else's account.  Okay!

 

Other Notes and Notebooks appeared in my account from SpringPad’s Migration Tool from SpringPad to Evernote in June 2014.  I still don’t know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.  I did not have a SpringPad account, so whatever SpringPad sent to my account was not my information.  Interesting!  I wonder how many people have not noticed this happening to their account.

 

Evernote does not initiate any moving of data into their service from a third party applicatin without someone authorizing that transfer of data.  It seems both of the third party apps mentioned above transferred data into my Evernote account in error.  Somehow, CloudHQ crosswired someone else’s Evernote data into my Evernote account.  I have not addressed this issue with CloudHQ as of yet.  I wanted to get one investigation done at time.

 

As for SpringPad’s Miigration Tool, well, I simply do not know what to say there.  Somehow, someone’s SpringPad data was inadvertently sent to my Evernote account.  If Evernote said it came from SpringPad, well then, I guess it did, but not from me!  It could not have since I did not have an account with SpringPad.  Since SpringPad does not exist anymore, I guess I will never find out.

 

Both of these issues came on the heels of another user having someone elses data “emailed” into his Evernote account, even after the email account was changed.  I am not sure the results of that investigation.

 

I requested Evernote come out with a public statement addressing these issues in an attempt to be transparent, explainig Evernote did not transfer the data into the accounts, rather a third party app did. I suggested this could only help Evernote with it’s users and their concerns.  No reply from EN on this.

 

In additon, I provided the following to Terry O. during our discussions back and forth:

 

Conerns voiced by other EN Power Users:

  • Data NOT Secure in EN (May 2014 a user reported Notes being emailed into his account. Notes contained sensitive data (No one knows if this has been resolved???.  Then Notes appearing in my account without investigation as to why/how -until today-)
  • Extremely Slow Support Service (in the recent months this has become an increasingly worse)
  • EN Support sending Users who submit Support Tickets to the User Forum for help instead of EN Support providing the help.
  • Insufficient Answers from Support (Which is what I was getting in June when no one investigated my support requests as you finally did this time)
  • Removing of Features in the Desktop Clients WITHOUT any discussion from EN with it’s users. (EN simply removed features without telling the users and with no explanation as to why)
  • Poor (NO) Communication from EN about issues the users take serious. No public announcement to the users about the resolution of either case where Notebooks and Notes appeared in a user’s account.  Users need answers to these problems, not excuses, so they can feel comfortable in using the EN service.  But hey, even excuses at this point would be better than what we are receiving, which is nothing.  Silence!  And silence does not foster good relationships, satisfaction, comfort, security, etc.
  • Inexcusable No-Return Policy in your Market.  Not that all power users purchase from EN (too expensive), rather, who wants to trust a company who does not offer a return policy?  Think about the simplicity of return policies in the world of retail, and EN does not have one?  This provides a lack of TRUST IN EVERNOTE.
  • Take my money and run! - all of the above makes the users feel as though EN has no interest in their users.  You just want our money, then run!
No reply to me about these issues. 

 

Terry O. simply said that if anyone else has issues they wish to be addressed by Evernote, for them to submit a support ticket.  So, if you share any of the above conerns or any other concerns about Evernote and their service, I encourage you to submit a support ticket.  It seems obvious they are not willing to address these issues any further with me!  I guess I will submit a separate ticket on this. 

 

It seems it is best to address one issue at a time per ticket.

 

Good luck!

 

Sentinel, I appreciate you going public with your experience.  Although I 'liked' your post, it's hard to like what it conveyed.  Several of the issues you mentioned are things some of the "formerly-known-as-evangelists" (including me) tried to discuss with Evernote privately several months ago.  We received no reply of substance.  Especially concerning were things like the mysterious notes being added to accounts, local notebooks being sync'd, removing features and without warning.  It would have been much better for Evernote to go public with these things rather than try to sweep them under the rug, which tends to foster suspicion.

 

For about six years, up until about six months ago, I'd bet there were no users that were more supportive of Evernote than I was.  I've posted more than a couple of times on the board that I use Evernote at least once every hour I'm on a computer/iPad & really even more than that. (And I'm on a computer a LOT each & every day!)  I used to "feed" Evernote with photos while shopping of things I may want to get.  Or prices of items for price comparison.  I felt I had a rapport with a few of the employees.  But these issues, along with my own (previously discussed) problems of scalability (making large accounts essentially useless) and newly introduced bugs (notebook sharing/ghost notes) topped off with the incommunicado stance of Evernote has caused me to lose all confidence in the company.  I feel like I've lost a good friend.  I think the concept of Evernote's tags was brilliant and it's difficult for me to adapt to Onenote, since I'm migrating away from Evernote.  For me, I've given up on trying to "get through" to those in charge at Evernote.  I tried for a few months & after receiving no reply of substance & continuing to see more & more things going awry, I decided it's time for me to move on.  Hopefully, this is just a rough patch that is part of their growing pains.  I hope that in a year or two, Evernote will return to the great product that it was for many years.  If so, I will be very happy to return. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

Agree BNF!  I too feel like I lost a friend.  That emotion was my only drive to attempt deeper communication with EN.  However, like you, I need to move on as well.  I do hope they come back with better service and support.  They have a potentially great product and I could excuse some of the bugs IF there was simply better communication from EN.

 

But once again today, I was brushed off because they were not interested in discussing the issues any further.

 

Thank you BNF and all the other Evangelists (too many to list, but you know who you are!) for your help to me and all the others over the years!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Looks like Synology is launching an evernote clone.  No idea if it is actually sanctioned by evernote (doesn't seem likely), but it seems like a private cloud option of Evernote is happening.

 

https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/5.1beta

 

Now of course, I have no idea how synology's "evernote" compares to the real deal.  Time will tell.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Looks like Synology is launching an evernote clone.  No idea if it is actually sanctioned by evernote (doesn't seem likely), but it seems like a private cloud option of Evernote is happening.

 

https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/5.1beta

 

Now of course, I have no idea how synology's "evernote" compares to the real deal.  Time will tell.

Thanks for sharing this!

Share this post


Link to post

I would very much like to hear from an Evernote employee about several issues.  However, they simply will not respond!  I will be on the sidelines watching and listening, waiting for one of two things to happen:

 

EN will either step up to the plate or they will continue their nonchalant, indifference to it's users.  

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know why we haven't seen any posts from Evernote employees in this thread.  I think it really leads to more and more misunderstandings and mistrust.  At this point it seems that we are feeding on the negativity of one another.

 

IAC, I wanted to share this post by EN employee Jackolicious, who now may be known as "The Cricket;)

 

 

 

And the response from Evernote? Just crickets.

Hey folks, cricket here:

 

I'm glad to see this discussion in the Mac forum. Our power users are everything to us. We (the Evernote team) are all power users too. I have 5 digits worth of notes and was growing frustrated too. We are working on it.

 

We just released Evernote for Mac 5.6. This could easily be called the biggest power-user release we've ever done. Our sync was completely rewritten from the ground up. We reduced the opportunity for crashes significantly (and if you do crash, our new crash reporting system ensures that we tackle the most frequent crashes before every release). Our note editor is brand new to handle old features better (like bulleted lists), new features (image resizing, table resizing), and features we can't even talk about yet! Search was rewritten to sort by relevance so that users with large numbers of notes get better results (not just more of them). 

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is: we're working on it. Making an awesome place to store your life's work is our life's work. Keep the discussion going. We love the feedback.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Looks like Synology is launching an evernote clone.  No idea if it is actually sanctioned by evernote (doesn't seem likely), but it seems like a private cloud option of Evernote is happening.

 

https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/5.1beta

 

Now of course, I have no idea how synology's "evernote" compares to the real deal.  Time will tell.

 

Howdy adama31:

 

I just got off the phone with Synology. DSM 5.1 beta runs exclusively on Synology's hardware... not WIN, not iOS, not Android, etc.

 

I'm expecting a return call from their marketing department. If anything changes, I'll relay the info here and at en2one.proboards.com.

 

 

Alan

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

Looks like Synology is launching an evernote clone.  No idea if it is actually sanctioned by evernote (doesn't seem likely), but it seems like a private cloud option of Evernote is happening.

 

https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/5.1beta

 

Now of course, I have no idea how synology's "evernote" compares to the real deal.  Time will tell.

 

Howdy adama31:

 

I just got off the phone with Synology. DSM 5.1 beta runs exclusively on Synology's hardware... not WIN, not iOS, not Android, etc.

 

I'm expecting a return call from their marketing department. If anything changes, I'll relay the info here and at en2one.proboards.com.

 

 

Alan

 

Correct.  Synology only. If it takes off, it'd be a good selling point for them.  Lately they seem quite focused on personal cloud stuff and a local version of an evernote clone falls squarely in that personal cloud category.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks for posting Sentinel. I appreciate the "likes" from everyone, but I have deleted my earlier post, because I didn't like the tone I took. It was too negative. Frankly, I am also not happy with a post I made a while back about Evernote being "unethical" in its response either. I should have recognized the possibility of a third-party app causing this issue (for some reason, it didn't occur to me that one would be mucking up multiple accounts) and I should not have rushed to judgment on Evernote. I am still not pleased with how things look (I am not sure how to explain why Evernote would try to shush a user about a known security breach), but I don't have all of the information on hand, and perhaps I never will, so I can't really say much. I guess this kind of thing hit a particularly grumpy spot with me, though, and I was a bit harsh.

 

I think I can be a little more sucinct and even-handed here by just saying that I think Evernote needs to do a much better job with communication. I'd like to hear what Cloud HQ has to say. I'd also like to hear more about how many apps are doing this, how many users were affected, how widespread the security breach is, etc. It's better for everyone: Evernote, users, and developers. In this case of poor communication (explaining to us about the leaking of data from one account to another) it is a security breach at stake. But, in other cases, it has to do with changes they make to the service. Generally speaking, users ought to be provided with the information they need to make informed decisions about how to use the product. I've offered several concrete proposals over the years on these forums. I'll leave it at that.

Share this post


Link to post

Illustrious -

 

I spent a couple of hours researching your ticket yesterday and this morning to help Terry answer your questions. We take allegations of security risks extremely seriously.

 

While I understand your frustrations, I'm positive that Evernote did not disclose anything from or add anything to your account without your consent (or the consent of someone logged into your account using the web browser on your computer).

 

In both of the cases you mention in June, someone on your computer chose to authorize those third party web services to create notes within your Evernote account. Shortly after each of these authorizations, those services took non-Evernote data and used it to create notes and notebooks in your account. None of your notes were accessed by those services, and none of the data they put into your account came from other Evernote accounts.

 

I say that this came from your own computer because I went through our logs to confirm that the same IP address had been used in surrounding days to access your account from your client, web clipper, and web browser. And the web browsers used in surrounding days was identical (in "User-Agent") to the one that authorized Springpad import to Evernote.

 

Since you deleted the notes that Springpad imported from your account, and since their service is no longer available, I can't rule out the possibility that they pushed notes from the wrong Springpad account into Evernote after your browser granted them access. But it's also possible that the content came from the right authenticated Springpad account. (We heard no other reports of incorrect behavior from any of the people who did the same import.)

 

However, I absolutely agree with your general recommendation that Evernote users should choose carefully which third-party applications they permit to access to their Evernote accounts, just like you should choose carefully what applications should have permission to read your email or access your banking web site.

 

We try to help with this decision by enumerating exactly which capabilities you're granting each application. I.e. some applications have permissions to read your notes, others do not. We encourage developers to request only the permissions they absolutely need, and we've added some safety features (e.g. "Note History") to protect against accidental note damage from third party applications.

 

And we will, of course, terminate the access of any applications that are actually mishandling the data of the Evernote users who have granted them access.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

Dave,


 


I do appreciate the visit in the Forum and would have apprecited a bit more information in our discussions in the Support emails back and forth.  Thank you for the detailed response!  Well worded and about what I anticipated.


 


I am glad Evernote has a handle on this issue.  It makes me feel more comfortable knowing you are on it.  Thank you!


  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

My pleasure!

 

There's a bit too much on this thread to try to wade in point-by-point on page 9, but I want to make sure everyone knows that we do hear your concerns and take them seriously.

 

While we have a great team who works hard to balance the needs of our 100+ million users, we obviously screw up from time to time and introduce bugs or make UI changes that make some tasks harder (while trying to improve others).

We'll keep working to get things right, and the feedback from the forum and from Support tickets is a huge part of that.

 

But we do feel that our top responsibility is to be the best custodians of your life's work. Above all else, we want to make sure your data is protected. Hopefully, this will let you trust us to keep managing the things you write and collect.

But we also feel extremely strongly that it's your right to take your information elsewhere if we should ever lose your trust:

http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2014/06/03/evernotes-three-laws-data-protection-update/

 

Thanks

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

In hindsight, I feel it necessary to apologize.  My lack of knowledge on the data appearing in my account frustrated me and I allowed that frustration to ferment.  I was frustrated with several issues that hit in a small time frame, however, that is no justification for my rants. I made several posts in this forum I consider less than professional.

 

My posts were never meant to be malicious!  If you wish to delete them, I agree.  If you wish to leave them up as an example of what “not to do”, I agree.

 

I want to extend my apology to Evernote, Terry O., Dave Engberg, the Evangelists and all other Forum users.  I apologize for any undue harm or discontent I may have caused any of you.  I should have handled the situation more discreetly and with greater respect for all involved.  I (me and my small group of users) am only one insignificant user out of over 100 Million, and keeping that in perspective, I now feel fortunate I receive(d) any reply from Evernote when submitting tickets.  So, for that I am grateful!

 

I hope you accept this apology as it comes from the bottom of my heart.  I hope you take it as it is meant, as well as an attempt to foster a kindred spirit.  I wish Evernote, it’s employees and it’s users the best of luck and most success in the future.  I also hope the upcoming 2014 Evernote Conference is a rocking conference for all!

 

Sincerely,

Sentinel

Share this post


Link to post

For those of you who generate really large files, you'll be please to know that Microsoft OneDrive is here to help.

Just received this announcement by email:

 

 

We’re excited to announce that you can now upload files up to 10 GB from desktop, mobile, and the web! Our goal with OneDrive is to provide a single place for all your files, and we don’t want you to be limited by file size.

 
Thanks,
The OneDrive Team

 

Doesn't affect me.  I don't have any files over a few hundred MB, much less 10GB!  Most of my files are << 100MB

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

 

In hindsight, I feel it necessary to apologize.  My lack of knowledge on the data appearing in my account frustrated me and I allowed that frustration to ferment.  I was frustrated with several issues that hit in a small time frame, however, that is no justification for my rants. I made several posts in this forum I consider less than professional.

 

 

Sentinel, while I appreciate that sinking feeling that might come from discovering that you were, perhaps, responsible for what looked like an Evernote mistake, and your ensuing apology, I must confess that I'm not convinced you did anything wrong. I am glad to see that Evernote finally "spent a couple of hours researching your ticket", but had they done so back in June when they were supposed to then all of this might have been avoided. It looks to me like everything you said and did from June to now is what finally got Evernote to reply to you with a real explanation. In my mind, if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Sentinel,

 

Don't be so hard on yourself.  Annoyances have a cumulative effect.  Your data issue plus the myriad reports of software errors and a vacuum of communications take their toll.  Now that we know our data is protected how's about fixing some of the issues with getting to it.  

 

Avid user here, not interested in transitioning to some other platform in any way.  Would just like EN to perform per specifications, nothing to do with my preferences.  Those trouble tickets I have submitted which have been confirmed as errors that have gone into the black hole of development priorities.  Those would be good to hear about.  Just saying...

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

@ Sentinel

 

I don't remember reading anything malicious in your comments, and I appreciated your candor in exposing an extremely serious issue that users need to know about in order to make informed decisions about how to handle their data. You are not one out of a 100 million. You are one of two people (?) on this forum (a small subset of users) who have reported extremely disturbing behavior for the last few months. Thank you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Howdy, Sentinel:

 

Personally, IMO your apology is misplaced. I do not agree your comments were negative but were objective... nor is it you who ought to be apologing... but rather it is EN that ought to be rightfully apologizing to its entire user base.

 

I am 61. I have been in business since 1976 from the day I got out of college. If I ran my ship with the same sloppy and calous customer service and tech support that EN does, I would be out of business.

 

Subscribers have every RIGHT to report technical issues. After the same issues have been reported... even for several years... then SHAME on EN... not the subscriber who is disaffected due to poor management and customer support.

 

I had previously been an independent Software Applications and Beta-tester for years from Microsoft to shareware houses. EN's handling of subscriber complaints is a TEXTBOOK 101 case study on how NOT to do it.

 

 

Hope this proves helpful.

 

Alan

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Sentinel, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. You have always proven both courteous and helpful.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

One positive i got from this thread is to know that technically, there could be a private cloud possibility. Always a concern when you use public clouds like Evernote. Hope this device is  a success for it will raise the bar for Evernote to compete, and address more people issues and not take them for granted.

Share this post


Link to post

This thread is probably one of the most important threads in the history of this forum, because for the first time, Premium Users, Power Users and even some of the Evangelists have come about openly expressing their displeasure on various issues regarding to Evernote, almost unanimously in one thread. The irony is that almost all the users here, are the ones who were almost vocal supporters of the product and have helped grow the product in their own small ways. I have to thank the Evangelists ( no matter, how much I am against them in other threads), who pain stakingly reply to every newbie on the thread, on the silliest of questions, rather than grudgingly telling them to search within the Forum. Surely, its Evangelists have played a very important role in the company, no matter, how often they tend to be misinterpreted/disliked by many of us, whenever we criticized Evernote.

 

I see this thread not as signs of a rebellion, but rather as the first strong seeds of distrust and cracks that are beginning to show up in Phil Libin's 100 year old dreams. I do hope that Evernote does realize the gravity of the situation through the thread and make amends, before things go out of hand. Surely, considering the amount of effort I have invested and the passion that I have the product, and the amount it has helped me in improving my life ( I document my life in a Blog that tells individuals with ADHD how to benefit from Evernote) is priceless.

 

What i see are the major issues here. I think, over the last year, MS One Note has emerged the greatest threat, here. On Volume, Evernote can simply not compete with One Note. I think, even Evernote's Premium service cannot compete with the storage facility or the user experience that Microsoft produces in its software suite of products ( in most cases, atleast), unlike Evernote, where a lot of times in Evernote, the experience is buggy, tends to freeze, or is very slow. For me, the Android Versions and IOS Versions are much better now, but I am still not happy with the Windows Experience. The fact that MS is looking to develop strongly cross platform might also be of interest, after Satya Nadella took over.

 

Another issue that I personally think happened that has made the company lose focus on its core goal was bringing in the Evernote Market. I mean Evernote is a tech company. I can understand them trying to see Jot Pens or Post It Notes that have Evernote Software integration, but what does it have to do with selling bags and shoes? Where they trying to diversify Evernote into a pop brand across various product lines like Nike or Reebok, when their primary business was itself still not on firm ground? Did the then numbers, growth and potential lack of competition to Evernote's core business simply make the top management 'over confident'?  The focus and effort that went into the market, in my opinion should have been here on the software suite of products.

 

The third and most important thing here is the total opaqueness in which the system works here. Common, I am putting my life's work here, just as the way you do your advertising. Surely, I have a right to know, in what direction we are going, because the longer I use your product, the less likely, I will be able to come out of it. You know it, too. But when users ask for important information, we even have responses like "Evernote does not tell its futre plans" or something to taht effect. Someone even replied that telling out their plans could become benefitting for a competitor. So, despite thousands of questions on this forum, as to whether 2 Factor is coming or not.. People had no idea..

 

Finally, Evernote got hacked. It became news, all over. And then EN scampered around, and within a couple of months had built the 2 Fac infrastruture. My point is, that EN should have told users officially that 2 Fac was coming. ( or not coming in the near future) . This would have helped users take a conscious decision, whether they would like to continue in the product, and I think it is a fair enough question that needs to be answered. This is just one small example, here.

 

I hope Phil Libin does take things seriously this time. Apology Letters may not necessarily work, the next time, around.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post

I'm investigating this now and it doesn't seem to be very easy to have OneNote for a team within an organization.

 

It would seem that I can create a shared notebook and invite people to it - the notebook *can* live on the network but in order for all of us to see it everywhere then it has to be on OneNote Online which is somehow apparently a part of OneDrive for which an individual has 15GB storage, but why should my work notebook and my personal workbooks share storage space?

 

Then there is the issue of sharing - people don't need a Windows Live ID but they can use one - not sure how that works.  They are sharing my files - but are we collaborating or are they in MY files?  (It seems that they are in MY files).  

 

And for the life of me I cannot find decent documentation anywhere (I've looked hardish).  We have Office/OneNote 2010 so is NOT Office365 the online world of Microsoft Office.  And in our office, our Microsoft products are managed by IT - we all sort of have Windows Live IDs that are sometimes tied to our MS exchange email address (as they should for work) but not everyone does.  And yeah, we have sharepoint, and no, my OneNote stuff is not going there.

 

So as my confused writing will attest to MS OneNote for collaboration/business uses seems much much harder to deal with and set up than it should.

 

Despite the big problems that I'm hearing about with EN Business I'm leaning that way because it's easy and I understand how the pieces relate.  (Except for that whole "no admin control of notebook names" issue which totally stinks!!!!)  

 

One admin account - and multiple employee user accounts.  (Mind you I'm keeping my Personal account separate from the Business account no matter what anyone says - work is work, personal stuff is personal - and if I am not the EN Business admin anymore I don't want to have to then separate the accounts.).

 

So, I'm on the fence but leaning towards EN Business because of seeming chaos surrounding OneNote usage for teams. 

Share this post


Link to post

@Sqril:  If you're looking for a good collaboration tool, there are several out there that are much better than either Evernote or OneNote.

 

You can do a Google on "collaboration" to find lot's of choices & reviews.

Here is one that I have NOT used, but has been highly recommended:  Confluence

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

@JMichael - thanks for the suggestion..

 

I was looking at those type of things for awhile but it's mostly places to put our project notes, workflows and process documentations.

 

(I have in the past looked at 5pm, basecamp, fengoffice, glasscubes, goplay, podio, smartsheets, teambox, and teamlab).  It's a team of 3 and they weren't interested in anything that in depth.

 

But I want us to all be able see the same stuff - hence the EB Business thought.

 

EDIT: Apparently I thought I was posting a little farther back in the thread so apologies if this seems out of the current context of the thread.

Share this post


Link to post

@Sqril:  No worries.  I know Evernote advertises its Business version as a collaboration tool, but, IMO, it's really not.  I've seen lots of complaints about EN sharing.  Recently there have also been lots of complaints about syncing.  So I wouldn't go there.   ;)   

 

Confluence is only $10/mo for 10 users, so that seems like a very low, reasonable price to me.  They have a free trial if you want to test it out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

FYI:  Evernote's radical plan to kill files

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102047277

 

 

 

Something's got to give somewhere!  LOL.

 

Alan

 

More Libin clickbait.....the reality of the application is so far from the stuff that he says that it's not worth commenting on.

Share this post


Link to post

(I thought originally it said flies)

 

Evernote conference in full swing. http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/10/04/the-evernote-conference-announcements-highlights-photos/

 

Here's hoping.  I discover in the biggest project I need to keep up with (Moodle) that a lot of business is done in smoke filled back rooms (metaphorically speaking) over late night after session drinks.

 

May the bodies at EC4 have great clarity.

 

-Derek

Share this post


Link to post

History gets fuzzy sometimes, but IMO EN got  "froggier" about the time Business was introduced and the sharing that entailed.  Doesn't sound like less business....

Share this post


Link to post

(I thought originally it said flies)

Evernote conference in full swing. http://blog.evernote.com/blog/2013/10/04/the-evernote-conference-announcements-highlights-photos/

Here's hoping. I discover in the biggest project I need to keep up with (Moodle) that a lot of business is done in smoke filled back rooms (metaphorically speaking) over late night after session drinks.

May the bodies at EC4 have great clarity.

-Derek

Isn't that conference information from last year? I don't think it is under way for a few more hours yet. I don't think it is a place normally used for hashing out ideas about where the company, so I would expect more along the lines of announcements than changes in direction.

As for Phil's plan to end files, I'll be interested to see where that goes. Personally, I think Evernote is tied just as much to real world metaphors as files: notes, notebooks, stacks, and tags. I don't really see a problem with virtual versions of the old physical files, as long as they get the job done. And, on the computer, we've certainly leveraged the power of digital information with things like indexing, smart folders, and tags.

I'm a little more interested in less attractive, but much more immediately useful improvements that tackle existing problems by introducing encrypted notebooks, selective sync, and so forth. These aren't concepts that will blow your mind, but features that would make a big difference for users.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

FYI: Evernote's radical plan to kill files

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102047277

Something's got to give somewhere! LOL.

Alan

I'm starting by eliminating exb files.

History gets fuzzy sometimes, but IMO EN got "froggier" about the time Business was introduced and the sharing that entailed. Doesn't sound like less business....

I think that's probably true. EN used to stress, in the past, that it was a *personal* tool and that they weren't interested in making it an enterprise tool. When they introduced EB, it was quite a surprise & seemed they were moving in a direction they had seemed to publicly say they were avoiding. I'm honestly not sure what direction they are going now & I'm not sure they do, either.

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/14830-evernote-jumps-the-shark/?p=71909

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

I don't really see a problem with virtual versions of the old physical files, as long as they get the job done

Amen.  IMO, there seems to be too much emphasis on sizzle and coolness, and not enough on function and results.

 

I'm starting by eliminating exb files.

Ouch.   :lol:

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it does.

Check out the strong, adverse reaction to the new EN Web Beta.

 

Thankfully, I rarely use the EN Web client.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it does.

Check out the strong, adverse reaction to the new EN Web Beta.

 

Thankfully, I rarely use the EN Web client.

 

I saw one user who liked it...  oh wait.  :huh:

Share this post


Link to post

Have you looked at Trello? Superb Organizational flexibility. Strong support

Share this post


Link to post

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, it does.

Check out the strong, adverse reaction to the new EN Web Beta.

 

Thankfully, I rarely use the EN Web client.

Just checked it out. Awful. Like you, I use the desktop client, so this doesn't bother me.

 

I really hope that 'white space' design doesn't make it into the desktop clients.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Sentinel, I wish you the best with all of this. 

I had two ticket rounds with misplaced and lost notes. Bottom line was they thought it was "wierd" that those notes were lost and that all of 2009 and 2010 notes were placed in November of 2011. Over a 800 notes were lost and I just had to deal with it. 

 Because of the less than accommodating let alone apologetic (not close) responses I've had a major chip about Evernotes user responses ever since. It's utterly deplorable....and the evangelists although could be a buffer of sorts, aren't.

It's really sad that you have to go public with this...you shouldn't have to. It's a statement of Evernotes user support failings. 

But it does sound like you could make headway. 

The best to you. 

 

 

Here is my latest update with EN Support as of today.

 

If you use a Third Party App integration with Evernote, please BECAREFUL!

 

I submitted a ticket requesting an update on the Open Ticket I had regarding Notes and Notebooks appearing in my account in June 2014.  After numerous emails back and forth with Terry O., and much incentive from me, it was finally determined the Notes & Notebooks that appeared in my account came from two sources, which are third party apps which can be used in conjunction with Evernote:  SpringPad Migration Tool and CloudHQ

 

-In June 2014, I connected CloudHQ to my Evernote account for use as backup.  I disconnected that account later in June 2014 when I discovered these Notes and Notebooks appearing.

-I have never had a SpringPad Account.

 

It was determined that some of the Notes and Notebooks that were not mine but found their way into my account, was done via CloudHQ.  I still do not know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.

 

Evernote assures my NONE of MY Notes or Notebooks have been inadvertently placed in someone else's account.  Okay!

 

Other Notes and Notebooks appeared in my account from SpringPad’s Migration Tool from SpringPad to Evernote in June 2014.  I still don’t know who those Notes and Notebooks belong to nor what they contained.  I did not have a SpringPad account, so whatever SpringPad sent to my account was not my information.  Interesting!  I wonder how many people have not noticed this happening to their account.

 

Evernote does not initiate any moving of data into their service from a third party applicatin without someone authorizing that transfer of data.  It seems both of the third party apps mentioned above transferred data into my Evernote account in error.  Somehow, CloudHQ crosswired someone else’s Evernote data into my Evernote account.  I have not addressed this issue with CloudHQ as of yet.  I wanted to get one investigation done at time.

 

As for SpringPad’s Miigration Tool, well, I simply do not know what to say there.  Somehow, someone’s SpringPad data was inadvertently sent to my Evernote account.  If Evernote said it came from SpringPad, well then, I guess it did, but not from me!  It could not have since I did not have an account with SpringPad.  Since SpringPad does not exist anymore, I guess I will never find out.

 

Both of these issues came on the heels of another user having someone elses data “emailed” into his Evernote account, even after the email account was changed.  I am not sure the results of that investigation.

 

I requested Evernote come out with a public statement addressing these issues in an attempt to be transparent, explainig Evernote did not transfer the data into the accounts, rather a third party app did. I suggested this could only help Evernote with it’s users and their concerns.  No reply from EN on this.

 

In additon, I provided the following to Terry O. during our discussions back and forth:

 

Conerns voiced by other EN Power Users:

 

  • Data NOT Secure in EN (May 2014 a user reported Notes being emailed into his account. Notes contained sensitive data (No one knows if this has been resolved???.  Then Notes appearing in my account without investigation as to why/how -until today-)
  • Extremely Slow Support Service (in the recent months this has become an increasingly worse)
  • EN Support sending Users who submit Support Tickets to the User Forum for help instead of EN Support providing the help.
  • Insufficient Answers from Support (Which is what I was getting in June when no one investigated my support requests as you finally did this time)
  • Removing of Features in the Desktop Clients WITHOUT any discussion from EN with it’s users. (EN simply removed features without telling the users and with no explanation as to why)
  • Poor (NO) Communication from EN about issues the users take serious. No public announcement to the users about the resolution of either case where Notebooks and Notes appeared in a user’s account.  Users need answers to these problems, not excuses, so they can feel comfortable in using the EN service.  But hey, even excuses at this point would be better than what we are receiving, which is nothing.  Silence!  And silence does not foster good relationships, satisfaction, comfort, security, etc.
  • Inexcusable No-Return Policy in your Market.  Not that all power users purchase from EN (too expensive), rather, who wants to trust a company who does not offer a return policy?  Think about the simplicity of return policies in the world of retail, and EN does not have one?  This provides a lack of TRUST IN EVERNOTE.
  • Take my money and run! - all of the above makes the users feel as though EN has no interest in their users.  You just want our money, then run!

 

No reply to me about these issues. 

 

Terry O. simply said that if anyone else has issues they wish to be addressed by Evernote, for them to submit a support ticket.  So, if you share any of the above conerns or any other concerns about Evernote and their service, I encourage you to submit a support ticket.  It seems obvious they are not willing to address these issues any further with me!  I guess I will submit a separate ticket on this. 

 

It seems it is best to address one issue at a time per ticket.

 

Good luck!

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Because of the less than accommodating let alone apologetic (not close) responses I've had a major chip about Evernotes user responses ever since. It's utterly deplorable....and the evangelists although could be a buffer of sorts, aren't.

I am unclear about what apologies you were expecting from users about your lost notes and the unsatisfactory experience had you with customer support. Perhaps, if you could post some links to the posts we could help remove that chip from your shoulder?

As for Evangelists, they no longer exist, so they cannot help Sentinel. Former evangelists, like myself, have done as much as we can to draw attention to the issue (on the forums and in private correspondence) and try to find a resolution. I can assure you that many users of this forum are quite interested in helping out other users and do our best to do so, even if we don't always achieve the results we'd like.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

From Users?!!...no from Evernote ticketeers. After all was done, Not once was there a 'hey sorry bout the lost notes and misplaced notes'....sounds petty now actually , but at the time it exacerbated the frustration. 

 

Because of the less than accommodating let alone apologetic (not close) responses I've had a major chip about Evernotes user responses ever since. It's utterly deplorable....and the evangelists although could be a buffer of sorts, aren't.


I am unclear about what apologies you were expecting from users about your lost notes and the unsatisfactory experience had you with customer support. Perhaps, if you could post some links to the posts we could help remove that chip from your shoulder?

As for Evangelists, they no longer exist, so they cannot help Sentinel. Former evangelists, like myself, have done as much as we can to draw attention to the issue (on the forums and in private correspondence) and try to find a resolution. I can assure you that many users of this forum are quite interested in helping out other users and do our best to do so, even if we don't always achieve the results we'd like.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...