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Justin Street

windows Evernote For Windows 5.6 Beta 2

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Hi folks,


 


We have released a new beta. 


 


Here are the changes it contains:


 



Improvements

  • Readability and organization of notebooks menu
  • Performance of sync on sign out
Fixed

  • Bugs related to notebook picker improvements
  • Some images displaying at incorrect aspect ratios

 

Please try it out and let us know what you think.

 

Thanks!

 


You can opt into beta's by going to Tools >> Options and checking [ ] Update to pre-release version when available

 


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First impression - shocking! In version 5 there was such a well-arranged list of notebooks - you had columns and could see a lot of notbooks without any scrolling.

 

And now? In my eyes: a dull ugly list - I have to scroll and to scroll and to scroll - terrible! And very slow. And no separators for the eyes. And such a waste of space: left side the names of the notebooks, than blank ... blank ... blank ... blank ... oh and at the right side I could see the number of notes. This is okay for a small smartphone screen - but not for monitors in the office with 30'' and more.

 

And .. and ... and. How could you do this???

 

Maybe other users like this ... maybe ...

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First impression - shocking! In version 5 there was such a well-arranged list of notebooks - you had columns and could see a lot of notbooks without any scrolling.

 

And now? In my eyes: a dull ugly list - I have to scroll and to scroll and to scroll - terrible! And very slow. And no separators for the eyes. And such a waste of space: left side the names of the notebooks, than blank ... blank ... blank ... blank ... oh and at the right side I could see the number of notes. This is okay for a small smartphone screen - but not for monitors in the office with 30'' and more.

 

And .. and ... and. How could you do this???

 

Maybe other users like this ... maybe ...

 

 

Concur! This is no improvement at all. You might offer the new view of the notebooks menu as an option, but at my desktop, this is no improvement of readability.

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Hi folks,

  • Readability and organization of notebooks menu

 

Does this refer to the dropdown notebook menus that you get in various places, like the notebook picker in the note header, and the one in the note filter control. I like the direction that this is going. I like that I can easily distinguish which account a shared notebook comes from; I'd like to see that reflected in the notebook list in the left panel as well. With respect to these menu dropdowns, it's be nice if stacks (and maybe the Recent list) were collapsible, which would cut down on scrolling in some cases.

I see that the Notebook panel has been getting some rework as well.

 

 

  • Performance of sync on sign out

 

I don't know about performance, but a couple of times recently I've had troubles shutting Evernote down before a system restart. I'd get a confusing message when I tried to cancel the Sync operation (I'd press cancel, then I'd get a are-you-sure type dialog with an ambiguous 'Cancel' button on it): I should have screen-capped it, I suppose, but usually when I'm restarting, I'm in a bit of a hurry...

 

A continuing issue I have (and have reported before, earlier in the v5 betas, I think) is a problem with identical tag names in separate accounts. I share notebooks between my personal and work accounts, and I have the same tags in both account, for example "_Todo". Now for purposes of note filtering, there's no way for a search on "tag:_Todo" to distinguish which of the "_Todo" tags I mean, and I'm fine with that; I can set further context if need be. There's no functional difference with respect to search. This just means that my accounts share a common tag vocabulary. 

 

However, in the various tag lists available (tag list in the left panel, tag dropdowns), the UI insists on displaying multiple entries for what are effectively the same thing, and goes the extra mile of confuson by:

* Highlighting both if I pick on one (tag list in left panel),

* Visually adding both identical tags to the tag filter if my context is broad enough (e.g. All Notes); this also makes it it so that you cannot delete one of them by clicking on the 'x' in the tag label

 

In other words, the UI is going to extra trouble maintaining a distinction between two items that are actually functionally the same. Drives me nuts.

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Also, the icons in the notebook drop down that distinguish between sync'd, local and shared have been removed.  The icon for the selected notebook is still there, but they are missing from the drop down list.

 

Evernote first removed the notebook icons from the left panel and now from the notebook drop down list, I honestly don't get this.  They are intentionally removing from the UI ways to distinguish between notebook types.  Why?!?  They are different and users need to see that.  Aside from causing long term users to get cranky, this will create more confusion for new users. 

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A notebook that's shared to you is marked by the account name of the sharer in the dropdowns. That's important information for operating on your note list, at least it is for me, whereas distinctions between local and synced, or notebooks I've shared and those I've not really aren't important to me in that context.

 

In the notebook list in the left panel, I'm not so sure, but the notebook panel, where there's more space, could have that information more prominently displayed -- right now you need to open the Settings for the notebook to get it.

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First impression - shocking! In version 5 there was such a well-arranged list of notebooks - you had columns and could see a lot of notbooks without any scrolling.

 

And now? In my eyes: a dull ugly list - I have to scroll and to scroll and to scroll - terrible! And very slow. And no separators for the eyes. And such a waste of space: left side the names of the notebooks, than blank ... blank ... blank ... blank ... oh and at the right side I could see the number of notes. This is okay for a small smartphone screen - but not for monitors in the office with 30'' and more.

 

And .. and ... and. How could you do this???

 

Maybe other users like this ... maybe ...

to clarify: I mean this area

long-list.jpg

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Also, the icons in the notebook drop down that distinguish between sync'd, local and shared have been removed.  The icon for the selected notebook is still there, but they are missing from the drop down list.

 

Evernote first removed the notebook icons from the left panel and now from the notebook drop down list, I honestly don't get this.  They are intentionally removing from the UI ways to distinguish between notebook types.  Why?!?  They are different and users need to see that.  Aside from causing long term users to get cranky, this will create more confusion for new users. 

I should not have included shared notebooks in the this comment.  My main concern is distinguishing between local and sync'd and I found the icons very helpful.

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The distinction between local and sync'ed is absolutely critical. A local notebook is not backed up to the server.

 

Jefito, I really don't see how it helps the discussion by your commenting that it doesn't matter to you. I would have hoped you would have had the vision to see that this issue does matter a lot to a great deal of users and that fact is what should be of most significance. You seem to have a remarkable amount of influence on the direction of the product, and I would be delighted to see that put towards issues that will improve the product in the eyes of the customer base.

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The distinction between local and sync'ed is absolutely critical. A local notebook is not backed up to the server.

Yes, I understand that. It is not critical to me except in certain contexts.

 

Jefito, I really don't see how it helps the discussion by your commenting that it doesn't matter to you. I would have hoped you would have had the vision to see that this issue does matter a lot to a great deal of users and that fact is what should be of most significance. You seem to have a remarkable amount of influence on the direction of the product, and I would be delighted to see that put towards issues that will improve the product in the eyes of the customer base.

It's really just grist for the Evernote mill -- I thought that I made it pretty clear that my usage, in a particular context, doesn't require that immediate distinction, but in other contexts it would be useful. Never made any claims about other users; other use cases are of course welcome for those who care to post about them

I don't kid myself in thinking that I have any influence at all on Evernote's development direction, except where I can report bugs.

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THis new notebook arrangement is even worse for business users. My business notebooks are now ABOVE my personal notebooks, so I have to scroll to get to my personal stuff. I really wonder if people at Evernote actually use this product on Windows. It is really frustrating to have these issues pop up.

I really feel for users that have dozens or even hundreds of business notebooks they are subscribed to. This new change would render their client useless for any personal notes.

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Justin Street


 


Does Evernote test the program for scalability with a large Evernote file?


For example: a 20 GB Windows .exb file with 75,000 notes containing a variety of file types?


(edit: moved from beta 1 to beta 2)

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20GB here with 24,500 notes, so same database size Jbensen2. I just apparently have more in attachments. Speed is lacking at this level, that is for sure. More than once I will leave Evernote for Windows and grab my iPad to get something as it is much faster. That is a shame.

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JBenson and EdH,

 

Slowness just happen with this Beta?  

 

My slowness TOTALLY disappeared with 5.5.2.4187 Public, 25,000 notes 15GB, so smaller DB.  Updated to a 5.6 beta last week to try and fix a tag search problem and it crashed, backed right out.  Haven't updated to new 5.6 Public just because after that....

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JBenson and EdH,

 

Slowness just happen with this Beta?  

 

My slowness TOTALLY disappeared with 5.5.2.4187 Public, 25,000 notes 15GB, so smaller DB.  Updated to a 5.6 beta last week to try and fix a tag search problem and it crashed, backed right out.  Haven't updated to new 5.6 Public just because after that....

 

No. My slowness has been going on over a year. i am wondering if the business side in the DB has any impact.

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Thanks for the feedback. Noted til here. Keep it coming!

Jack, I appreciate you making this comment.  I know the mantra is that Evernote reads all forum posts, but without feedback we really don't know.  This short comment, occasionally posted like you do, at least assures us that our posts in this topic have been read by an EN employee.  Thank you.

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Thanks for the feedback. Noted til here. Keep it coming!

Jack, I appreciate you making this comment.  I know the mantra is that Evernote reads all forum posts, but without feedback we really don't know.  This short comment, occasionally posted like you do, at least assures us that our posts in this topic have been read by an EN employee.  Thank you.

 

 

I am trying to figure out how to "LIKE" this multiple times.

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JBenson and EdH,

 

Slowness just happen with this Beta?  

 

My slowness TOTALLY disappeared with 5.5.2.4187 Public, 25,000 notes 15GB, so smaller DB.  Updated to a 5.6 beta last week to try and fix a tag search problem and it crashed, backed right out.  Haven't updated to new 5.6 Public just because after that....

 

No. My slowness has been going on over a year. i am wondering if the business side in the DB has any impact.

 

No business on my side, so maybe so.  See any improvement at all with the 4187 release?  It was night and day for me, without the business side.

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I decided to give the latest beta version a shot.

Risky, yes, but don't see any other option.

Upgraded to Windows 5.6.2.4351 (272351) Prerelease

 

It still takes 8 minutes of the "Not Responding" message before the program finishes loading.

Don't see any similar problems with my other programs.

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csihilling - I have .4351, no diff.

jbenson2 - 8min? Yikes! I assume you've defragged. How old is your database - ie when is the last time you deleted it and redownloaded? Mine only takes a minutes or two. I have far fewer notes though so maybe it takes longer to get going with more notes and size is less of an issue.

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jbenson2 - 8min? Yikes! I assume you've defragged. How old is your database - ie when is the last time you deleted it and redownloaded? Mine only takes a minutes or two. I have far fewer notes though so maybe it takes longer to get going with more notes and size is less of an issue.

 

Yup, just double checked - 8 minutes -  timed with my stop watch. Long enough to load Evernote, go upstairs, brew a pot of coffee, make a sandwich and return to the "Not Responding" message.
 
I started using Evernote July 2009. I've done all of the normal dance routines with Evernote Support, even special stuff like purchase a 2nd premium account to handle half of my notes - I've been bumped up to a higher level of Support, but no joy. So my solution is to keep Evernote running 24 hours/day, continue to move notes to OneNote and OneDrive, and use Google Keep for my daily stuff. (and do daily backups of the Evernote .exb file)
 
That is why I posted my futile question to Justin Street whether Evernote actually tests the program for scalability with a large Evernote file. As expected, the answer sounded like crickets chirping.

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That is just sad beyond belief.

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EN should take your file jbenson, randomize the characters in the notes so there is no usable data for them, then give it to the development team and make the EXE able to handle it properly. You are just the first one there. More than just you will have this type of note count soon enough.

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54 seconds to load for me, without a not responding message.  This lag in load time appeared at the same time as the dramatic improvement in application performance appeared (clicking on All Notes became instantaneous versus a 7 second lag for example).  This was after my update to 5.5.2.4187.  I assume some sort of data loading or organization in the app memory had been instituted to enhance application run performance.  Fine by me since all lags in the app were gone.

 

If it is a front end load of some sort, the number of notes or using business could exacerbate the start up time.  Dangerous drawing too much of a straight line with my data points.  And if it is the case, not sure what we could do about it here, other than leave EN up most of the time.

 

JBenson, how does the app run for you after it is up and running.as per earlier 5. releases?

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JBenson, how does the app run for you after it is up and running.as per earlier 5. releases?

 

Evernote runs fine once it is up and running. Search is great. Editing is OK. 

 

But if I want to switch to my second account, it will take another 8 minutes to load.

And it will take 8 minutes to go back to the original account.

And if I clear my cache, it will take 8 minutes to reload.

 

The only reason I pay for two premium accounts is Evernote Support suggested it to me to speed up the program. So half my notes (mostly web captures) are in one account and half on the other account (mostly pdf scans).

 

I am not the first. Other power users have run into severe scalability issues with Evernote. They have described their frustrations with the program here on this forum.

 

My opinion as a long time Evernote user:

I believe Justin Street and other Evernote employees are forbidden from publicly commenting on internal Evernote testing using a large number of notes because they realize there is a problem...

and that conflicts with their "2nd brain" marketing slogan and philosophy.

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Mine takes about a minute to get going from a cold start, which is tolerable.

 

I think the entire DB structure needs to be changed. It just doesn't seem to scale well. 

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Jbenson,

 

Interesting.  Makes me wonder if following EdH's suggestion on asking EN to combine your data bases and see if it takes 16 minutes to open but everything runs fine once you are past that.  Also, per Ed, could whatever is being done on start up be ported into the DB?  Does seem that some design work is needed somewhere for larger DBs..

 

ADDENDUM

 

Couldn't help myself so I did another test.  I have an older PC I use for the betas, Win7 Home Premium, 2GB.  I only have synced notebooks on it, so 14,000 notes.  It took 10 seconds for startup the first time.  Funny thing, subsequent startups on the beta machine, even after a system reboot were, were immediate.  Main difference other than the PCs is 5.6.2.4351 on the beta tester and 5.5.2.4187 on my primary PC, Win 7 Professional, 8GB.  Primary PC takes about 55 seconds no matter what.  Don't know what to do with this, not exactly logical.

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csihilling, do you have different antivirus solutions on each machine? Check out https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/41552-windows-v5-discussion/?p=294861 for a possible explanation - it may be that the AV software is not working nicely with EN, which would be difficult to reproduce and fix because of the enormous number of solutions and configurations that could exist.

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Avast on both.

 

EDIT

 

And I am actually okay with the performance since I leave EN running I don't hit the starup lag that often.  The reason for the testing was to try and understand the "how come for why" of it all.  Inquiring minds and all that.

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Evernote first removed the notebook icons from the left panel and now from the notebook drop down list, I honestly don't get this.  They are intentionally removing from the UI ways to distinguish between notebook types.  Why?!?  They are different and users need to see that.  Aside from causing long term users to get cranky, this will create more confusion for new users. 

 

I've been wondering this for sometime.

I have no explanation other than "Form over Function" to win design awards.

It's sad.

 

Gary

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Evernote first removed the notebook icons from the left panel and now from the notebook drop down list, I honestly don't get this.  They are intentionally removing from the UI ways to distinguish between notebook types.  Why?!?  They are different and users need to see that.  Aside from causing long term users to get cranky, this will create more confusion for new users. 

 

I've been wondering this for sometime.

I have no explanation other than "Form over Function" to win design awards.

It's sad.

 

Gary

 

 

 

Gary, I agree with you completely.  I made this observation in Dec 2012:

Evernote Ver 5 Does NOT Adhere to "Form Follows Function"

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On the suggestions about AV, while that could impact it, it has zero effect on my machine. I've told my AV to ignore my Evernote database. I cannot tell it helped.

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Still no improvements for users with high DPI Displays. I downloaded the beta, hoping that i will finally be able to use Evernote on my ThinkPad X1 Carbon with 14" Screen 2560x1440 resolution. It is running Windows 8.1 with 200% scaling, which corresponds to 192dpi. evernote.exe declares itself "dpi Aware" to Windows 8.1 via its manifest, preventing Windows from scaling it externally. However, evernote isn't really dpi aware, it just scales text and window proportions. Toolbars and scrollbars remain unscaled and are just to small to be used. I would really appreciate a fix for this in a future release!

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Usability issue with Ctrl+F Find function noted elsewhere in the forums: https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/65453-clearing-find-dialog-box-upon-dismissal-ctrl-f/).

 

The Ctrl_F search control helpfully retains the previous search term, but unhelpfully leaves it unselected in the edit box, which means that you need to manually delete it if you want to do a new search. Suggestion is to auto-select the previous search term when presenting it in the search control, so that the user can:

  • switch to a new search term by typing text (a new option), or
  • search on the old term by pressing 'Enter', or
  • edit it by pressing a cursor movement key.

Thanks.

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I've reverted to 5.5.3. I have an official support ticket open on this. Here is why. 5.6 wouldn't launch without crashing. Here is what I did to try and get it working again:

 

  • Delete my .exb file and resync, trying to rebuild the database. Crashed. (I did this successfully in mid-July with EN 5.5 for other reasons, so my DB was pretty fresh - had to do with the bitlocker crashes I've been experiencing and one of the crashes corrupted my .exb file)
  • Delete my entire evernote folder located under user\appdata\local\evernote and launched Evernote. After getting about 350 notes, it crashed. Relaunching just gave immediate crashes.
  • Uninstalled 5.6 and reinstalled 5.5. Crashed.
I scanned my HD and it reported no problems with chkdsk, so don't think it is my PC.
 
It really makes me wonder if there is something wrong with my cloud data. I just don't understand why a fresh install of 5.5 wouldn't work, unless uninstalling 5.6 didn't remove everything or 5.6 or something else has corrupted some data in my cloud. I've seen no issues with the iOS clients (other than the new beta totally sucks and constantly hangs - but that is another issue.)
 
Here is what I finally did.
  • Had a PC that has Evernote 5.4.x on it but hadn't sync'd in over a month.
  • Launched 5.4 and let it sync for about an hour.
  • Upgraded to 5.5 on that machine
  • Launched it and let it sync again.
  • Closed Evernote on that PC.
  • Copied the entire 22GB \evernote folder and sub folders to a flash drive
  • Copied the 22GB folder back to my current machine
  • Launched Evernote 5.5 on my current machine.
So far, it is working, but it really disturbs me that a fresh install crashes after 250-400 notes.

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What got me started was troubleshooting why EN 5.6 refused to properly exit. It would hang on the exit sync every single time. This had been going on for about a week, maybe a bit less. Not sure if it started with 5.6 b1 or b2.

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