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Why not integrate a few things from SpringPad?

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While I have used both for some time now there are a few reasons I couldn't fully commit to Evernote. This mostly centered around the fact that function seemed to trump beauty and flow in the Evernote experience.  Don't get me wrong Evernote is a great app but the interface is most definitely pedestrian and uninspired...boring.  Now that Evernote has basically swallowed up most of us Springpad users, why not take the opportunity to absorb why we liked Springpad in the first place?  There is a central and very important aspect of our interactions in our environments every day...and that is the aspect of Beauty.  Color, texture, movement, light, dark, shape, depth etc all play into beauty.  And while beauty can be subjective, there are common aspects and truth in the subjectivity.  Why not add the flexible usage of color to Evernote, beyond the mind numbing and uninspiring GREEN and BROWN and shades of grey interface?  I think that the simple addition of user definable colorization of notebooks and or the UI will make for a more satisfying experience.

 

Springpad had something Evernote has seemed to have overlooked or just outright ignored; and that is a design/beauty aspect to the app. Call it a Feng Shui.

 

I for one would love to see some integration of what made SpringPad enjoyable to use into our Evernote experience. 

 

Just a thought!

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TOTALLY AGREE!! I just want to cry when I look at Evernote...main issue is I just want to see my NOTEBOOKS...not every bit of info I put in...notes...like fingers on a chalkboard to me...I saw a tutorial where the notebooks appeared on the 'home page'  -- any hints on how to do that?? Plus they were different colors...quick for me to see what I wanted to add too..

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While I have used both for some time now there are a few reasons I couldn't fully commit to Evernote. This mostly centered around the fact that function seemed to trump beauty and flow in the Evernote experience.  Don't get me wrong Evernote is a great app but the interface is most definitely pedestrian and uninspired...boring.  Now that Evernote has basically swallowed up most of us Springpad users, why not take the opportunity to absorb why we liked Springpad in the first place?  There is a central and very important aspect of our interactions in our environments every day...and that is the aspect of Beauty.  Color, texture, movement, light, dark, shape, depth etc all play into beauty.  And while beauty can be subjective, there are common aspects and truth in the subjectivity.  Why not add the flexible usage of color to Evernote, beyond the mind numbing and uninspiring GREEN and BROWN and shades of grey interface?  I think that the simple addition of user definable colorization of notebooks and or the UI will make for a more satisfying experience.

 

Springpad had something Evernote has seemed to have overlooked or just outright ignored; and that is a design/beauty aspect to the app. Call it a Feng Shui.

 

I for one would love to see some integration of what made SpringPad enjoyable to use into our Evernote experience. 

 

Just a thought!

 

 

Well...maybe b/c Evernote is not Springpad.  Look where they both are today.

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BNF: I don't think you can directly relate Springpad's rich features to its demise, you would need to know the ins & outs before you can pass judgement. And because you don't need the richness yourself does not mean others don't. In fact, the visual aspect is not just nice but is very useful for a number of activities, such as project management (in which EN plays an important role), being able to use colours is very important.

So yes, EN should use Springpad's demise to integrate some of its features because a lot of Springpadders are not happy to switch to EN - see the EN community page on Google+ here https://plus.google.com/communities/105472729219340551607. Incorporating some SP features would be probably bring in a lot more ex-Sp people.

Having said all that, no one outside EN knows what they will do, so we just have to see what happens.

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Look, I think that all feature requests ought to be considered on their merits, regardless of who makes them, but only as related to Evernote's vision for its products. Evernote has a pretty good case that they're going in the right direction with what it's been doing so far, so it's a pretty safe bet that that they'll stick to that. Conversely, I think that they'd be the first to say that they're not done yet, and that they can do better.

 

With respect to the Springpad situation, that's a bummer, and ought to be a reminder to us Evernote users that the same thing could happen to us (do your backups, people!). But if Evernote wanted to bring aboard (or bring back, as it seems that many Springpad refugees were previous Evernote users) the Springboard crowd, don't you think that it'd be good to know what were the things that Springpad had that kept users in the fold. Was it just some fancy UI chrome? "Beauty" as defined above, whatever else the term may mean? Would that draw Springpad users into Evernote? Or was it a more comprehensive workflow-related set of functionality?

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BNF: I don't think you can directly relate Springpad's rich features to its demise, you would need to know the ins & outs before you can pass judgement. And because you don't need the richness yourself does not mean others don't. In fact, the visual aspect is not just nice but is very useful for a number of activities, such as project management (in which EN plays an important role), being able to use colours is very important.

So yes, EN should use Springpad's demise to integrate some of its features because a lot of Springpadders are not happy to switch to EN - see the EN community page on Google+ here https://plus.google.com/communities/105472729219340551607. Incorporating some SP features would be probably bring in a lot more ex-Sp people.

Having said all that, no one outside EN knows what they will do, so we just have to see what happens.

The passing judgement thing goes both ways. It's unfortunate that your app has gone under. But my point is that maybe, just maybe, the path that Evernote has chosen was the more sustainable one. From my POV, it's tiring to hear all the Springpad users feeling "forced" into using EN (you're not) & coming onto this board & complaining that EN is not Springpad. It's kind of like moving to a foreign country & then complaining they don't speak your language or have your favorite foods. Even if EN decided to adopt some of the features of Springpad, it's not going to happen quickly b/c EN already has a long list of feature requests from their own users. I am sure you all are annoyed about the demise of your beloved app. But, as you are finding out, not only does an app have to be something people like & use, but also something that enough people will *pay* for so that it can stay in business & maybe the features that attracted you to Springpad don't fit that bill.

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BNF: FYI it is not my app that has gone under. I joined Evernote last year & have been an enthusiastic user ever since. In fact, I even defend EN on forums or in personal discussions if I feel that criticism levelled at it is incorrect or unfair. I do not complain about EN because I do not believe in complaining.

And yes, EN has chosen the more sustainable path than Sp, but that does not necessarily mean that the rich features of Sp led to its demise, or that the absence of them keeps EN in business. Unless you have seen the full Sp financial & business model details you cannot judge what killed them. I am not so sure that EN's situation is more rosy: I understand that they are still not profitable. I find that worrying, to say the least, considering that they have over 100 million members ! I know they are not all Premium members, but they must have a fair proportion.

I do feel that, in their own interest, EN should be open to business opportunities, and some particularly good ones often arise out of "one man's death is another man's gravy" situations, which is the case here. You might be perfectly happy with EN as it is, but "continuous improvement" (if you understand the concept), which includes taking comments & requests into consideration, is one of the ways forward & would delight current & potentially new memebers.

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BNF: I don't think you can directly relate Springpad's rich features to its demise, you would need to know the ins & outs before you can pass judgement. And because you don't need the richness yourself does not mean others don't. In fact, the visual aspect is not just nice but is very useful for a number of activities, such as project management (in which EN plays an important role), being able to use colours is very important.

So yes, EN should use Springpad's demise to integrate some of its features because a lot of Springpadders are not happy to switch to EN - see the EN community page on Google+ here https://plus.google.com/communities/105472729219340551607. Incorporating some SP features would be probably bring in a lot more ex-Sp people.

Having said all that, no one outside EN knows what they will do, so we just have to see what happens.

The passing judgement thing goes both ways. It's unfortunate that your app has gone under. But my point is that maybe, just maybe, the path that Evernote has chosen was the more sustainable one. From my POV, it's tiring to hear all the Springpad users feeling "forced" into using EN (you're not) & coming onto this board & complaining that EN is not Springpad. It's kind of like moving to a foreign country & then complaining they don't speak your language or have your favorite foods. Even if EN decided to adopt some of the features of Springpad, it's not going to happen quickly b/c EN already has a long list of feature requests from their own users. I am sure you all are annoyed about the demise of your beloved app. But, as you are finding out, not only does an app have to be something people like & use, but also something that enough people will *pay* for so that it can stay in business & maybe the features that attracted you to Springpad don't fit that bill.

 

 I think it is an opportunity for EN to incorporate, grow, and become a more well rounded app that could have a much broader appeal to those of us that like beautiful UI.Why not incorporate the Visual learner/user?  I have been an EN user for a year so Im not bashing just saying that when you get stuck or you think you have arrived and that no one else has any good ideas...i.e. SP....that you potentiality set yourself up to get left behind....you stagnate and die.  

 

Current notable Ex: Firefox has adopted what looks to be SP's Menu interface which is very easy and convenient to use.If you have the latest Firefox the menu is in the top right corner...a very nice addition!  Without regard to who actually developed or created it....they understand the beauty AND functionality of that interface. EN Would do well to create beauty, and even re-imagine a better UI for their users....Why not hedge your bets and move beyond "either or" and move into a "both and"?  Apple does this well and constantly challenges the Status quo in their own UI...alwasy making tweaks and creating visual appeal. Thats all Im saying.....I don't necessarily feel "stuck" using EN... I just miss the few things that worked better for a visual person like myself many other visual people/learners (who could/would become satisfied customers)  i.e. Menu pop, color...GUI. 

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I migrated from Springpad to EN many moons ago. If only Springpad had desktop apps to go with their visually stunning mobile and web interfaces and paid attention to non-US users, I would have stayed with them and happily paid for it. Whilst a visual feast - a feature that actually improved the user experience - they were monumentally US-centric which micturated off many international users. Barcode reader? Brilliant! But I'm in a UK bookstore and it's giving me US bookshop prices. Stoopid, stoopid, stoopid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to EN and am happy to pay for it in spite of its several, often infuriating foibles because it most fits (but doesn't completely satisfy) my needs as a user. However, "good enough" isn't always the best business plan to follow.

But EN certainly isn't "the winner" because of its interface. And who knows? An improved visual experience may bring even more paying customers to the EN fold.

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Evernote's simplicity and ability to allow anyone to use it their own way is one of the things that I believe has made it come out a winner in this space.

 

This is why the typical life cycle from a free Evernote user to premium is quite long. Its not like other platforms where the use case is given to you. This is due to each persons case for creating notes having so many variables. If Evernote were to define and segment users through design it may actually cause a less sustainable model for them and cut out many potential users.

 

Due to this simplicity users have been able to test out Evernote and find a use case that fits very well for them without being forced into specific use cases and I believe this has worked for them. By EN facilitating a great developer program it is now the user/developers turn to find these use cases and cater to specific users with specific use cases.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Evernote Power user & creator of IdeaPlaces: A new way to explore and use Evernote

 

iOS app discussion & beta: https://discussion.e...d-use-evernote/

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It's just good business sense to integrate the option to change background colors and note colors to gain more customers. I guess I'm going to be using evernote now that springpad is leaving me, but it is painful to give up my color coding for work/home projects. I used springpad and plan to use evernote to manage events/tasks for my work in higher eduction in addition to using it for personal notes. I know the color issue didn't just come up now with springpad users searching for an alternative. I have spent quite a bit of time searching for another app that is more visually pleasing (looked into trello), but think I'll be with evernote... but another visually pleasing app could easily pull me away. Of course there are other features I liked about springpad, but the color thing is a no-brainer. Missing springpad dearly.

 

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There have been a few Springpad users who have come to the forums asking for functionality that they were used to having be added to Evernote. Of course, there have also been a few who believe if Evernote add feature X from Springpad then they will immediately add millions of wonderful paying users.

I think it's important to remember that Evernote and Springpad have not existed in separate universes for the last few years. I'm sure that Evernote are only too aware of what one it's major competitors had to offer and if there were functional elements that they thought would be useful then these things are probably already on the roadmap.

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Radico, can you please repost this (below) as a regular link? I can't get it to open as it is currently posted.

Thanks! :)

IdeaPlaces: A new way to explore and use Evernote

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Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to EN and am happy to pay for it in spite of its several, often infuriating foibles because it most fits (but doesn't completely satisfy) my needs as a user. However, "good enough" isn't always the best business plan to follow.

"Good enough" is often a worthwhile approach in business, and in life. Waiting for perfection is often not viable -- you may never get perfection (if there were a perfect solution out there, do you think that SpringPad users would be here now?). A la Voltaire: "Perfect is the enemy of good" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good). That doesn't mean that Evernote ought not strive for improvement, but their development process doesn't allow them to wait for total perfection (whatever that is) before release.

 

And if something is "good enough", doesn't that mean that it works?

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Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to EN and am happy to pay for it in spite of its several, often infuriating foibles because it most fits (but doesn't completely satisfy) my needs as a user. However, "good enough" isn't always the best business plan to follow.

"Good enough" is often a worthwhile approach in business, and in life. Waiting for perfection is often not viable -- you may never get perfection (if there were a perfect solution out there, do you think that SpringPad users would be here now?). A la Voltaire: "Perfect is the enemy of good" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good). That doesn't mean that Evernote ought not strive for improvement, but their development process doesn't allow them to wait for total perfection (whatever that is) before release.

 

And if something is "good enough", doesn't that mean that it works?

 

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point, Jeff. 

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BNF: FYI it is not my app that has gone under. I joined Evernote last year & have been an enthusiastic user ever since. In fact, I even defend EN on forums or in personal discussions if I feel that criticism levelled at it is incorrect or unfair. I do not complain about EN because I do not believe in complaining.

And yes, EN has chosen the more sustainable path than Sp, but that does not necessarily mean that the rich features of Sp led to its demise, or that the absence of them keeps EN in business. Unless you have seen the full Sp financial & business model details you cannot judge what killed them. I am not so sure that EN's situation is more rosy: I understand that they are still not profitable. I find that worrying, to say the least, considering that they have over 100 million members ! I know they are not all Premium members, but they must have a fair proportion.

I do feel that, in their own interest, EN should be open to business opportunities, and some particularly good ones often arise out of "one man's death is another man's gravy" situations, which is the case here. You might be perfectly happy with EN as it is, but "continuous improvement" (if you understand the concept), which includes taking comments & requests into consideration, is one of the ways forward & would delight current & potentially new memebers.

 

 

It's true that no one knows exactly why Springpad went under except for those with inside information.  So why then, are there so many SP refugees who seem to think adding all the colors will make Evernote have a gazillion premium users? Or that EN has no "good business sense" because they don't?  Here are a few for starters...

 

Color, texture, movement, light, dark, shape, depth etc all play into beauty.  And while beauty can be subjective, there are common aspects and truth in the subjectivity.  Why not add the flexible usage of color to Evernote, beyond the mind numbing and uninspiring GREEN and BROWN and shades of grey interface?    I think that the simple addition of user definable colorization of notebooks and or the UI will make for a more satisfying experience.

 

It's just good business sense to integrate the option to change background colors and note colors to gain more customers.

But EN certainly isn't "the winner" because of its interface. And who knows? An improved visual experience may bring even more paying customers to the EN fold.

 

Evernote seems to have always been open to new business opportunities & and continually improving.  But EN is not SP.  It's unfortunate SP went under.  But the overwhelming sense that's coming from the SP refugees is that they are mad that EN is not SP & they seem to expect that it should become SP.  One obligation any company has to its users AND its employees is to make good business decisions so that the product stays afloat.  The long history of Evernote (from back when it was a Windows only payware app) seems to prove they are hip to this.  So getting upset b/c EN isn't SP and/or adding your favorite feature that you think will bring a gazillion pay users in by next Wednesday afternoon at 2:55 is not helpful.  And for me, there are a few things EN needs to address that are a heck of a lot more important (and would provide a "more satisfying experience") than adding colors.  For instance, the scaling issue when you start having a lot of notes.  Or the problem in the Windows client with shared notebooks.  Just to name two.

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BNF: FYI it is not my app that has gone under. I joined Evernote last year & have been an enthusiastic user ever since. In fact, I even defend EN on forums or in personal discussions if I feel that criticism levelled at it is incorrect or unfair. I do not complain about EN because I do not believe in complaining.

And yes, EN has chosen the more sustainable path than Sp, but that does not necessarily mean that the rich features of Sp led to its demise, or that the absence of them keeps EN in business. Unless you have seen the full Sp financial & business model details you cannot judge what killed them. I am not so sure that EN's situation is more rosy: I understand that they are still not profitable. I find that worrying, to say the least, considering that they have over 100 million members ! I know they are not all Premium members, but they must have a fair proportion.

I do feel that, in their own interest, EN should be open to business opportunities, and some particularly good ones often arise out of "one man's death is another man's gravy" situations, which is the case here. You might be perfectly happy with EN as it is, but "continuous improvement" (if you understand the concept), which includes taking comments & requests into consideration, is one of the ways forward & would delight current & potentially new memebers.

 

 

It's true that no one knows exactly why Springpad went under except for those with inside information.  So why then, are there so many SP refugees who seem to think adding all the colors will make Evernote have a gazillion premium users? Or that EN has no "good business sense" because they don't?  Here are a few for starters...

 

Color, texture, movement, light, dark, shape, depth etc all play into beauty.  And while beauty can be subjective, there are common aspects and truth in the subjectivity.  Why not add the flexible usage of color to Evernote, beyond the mind numbing and uninspiring GREEN and BROWN and shades of grey interface?

 

It's just good business sense to integrate the option to change background colors and note colors to gain more customers.

But EN certainly isn't "the winner" because of its interface. And who knows? An improved visual experience may bring even more paying customers to the EN fold.

 

Evernote seems to have always been open to new business opportunities & and continually improving.  But EN is not SP.  It's unfortunate SP went under.  But the overwhelming sense that's coming from the SP refugees is that they are mad that EN is not SP & they seem to expect that it should become SP.  One obligation any company has to it's users AND it's employees is to make good business decisions so that the product stays afloat.  The long history of Evernote (from back when it was a Windows only payware app) seems to prove they are hip to this.  So getting upset b/c EN isn't SP and/or adding your favorite feature that you think will bring a gazillion pay users in by next Wednesday afternoon at 2:55 is not helpful.  And for me, there are a few things EN needs to address that are a heck of a lot more important than adding colors.  For instance, the scaling issue when you start having a lot of notes.  Or the problem in the Windows client with shared notebooks.  Just to name two. 

 

 

Yup. Everyone has different needs and wants. Yours happens to be different to others. 

 

I don't know how you implied from my post that I thought that EN was going to get a gazillion new users in 3 days by adding a bit of colour. I guess you were just using hyperbole but it rather diluted your point in the end. Pity.

 

As I said, I'm happy with EN but would be slightly happier if they tweaked the UI a bit. And yes, I'd also be happier if they paid attention to a few usability features, especially for the IOS apps. Dunno about Windows. I've never used the Windows app. 

 

Opinions, eh?

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Please, please, PLEASE do not make Evernote look like Springpad! I found the interface, busy, cluttered and unappealing. (But if you could make note titles in iOS default to title case again, that would be nice!).

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Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to EN and am happy to pay for it in spite of its several, often infuriating foibles because it most fits (but doesn't completely satisfy) my needs as a user. However, "good enough" isn't always the best business plan to follow.

"Good enough" is often a worthwhile approach in business, and in life. Waiting for perfection is often not viable -- you may never get perfection (if there were a perfect solution out there, do you think that SpringPad users would be here now?). A la Voltaire: "Perfect is the enemy of good" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good). That doesn't mean that Evernote ought not strive for improvement, but their development process doesn't allow them to wait for total perfection (whatever that is) before release.

 

And if something is "good enough", doesn't that mean that it works?

 

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point, Jeff. 

 

It's not really clear that I did, unless I misinterpreted what you meant in the first place. But you're welcome anyways. :)

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Don't get me wrong, I'm committed to EN and am happy to pay for it in spite of its several, often infuriating foibles because it most fits (but doesn't completely satisfy) my needs as a user. However, "good enough" isn't always the best business plan to follow.

"Good enough" is often a worthwhile approach in business, and in life. Waiting for perfection is often not viable -- you may never get perfection (if there were a perfect solution out there, do you think that SpringPad users would be here now?). A la Voltaire: "Perfect is the enemy of good" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good). That doesn't mean that Evernote ought not strive for improvement, but their development process doesn't allow them to wait for total perfection (whatever that is) before release.

 

And if something is "good enough", doesn't that mean that it works?

 

 

Thanks for reinforcing my point, Jeff. 

 

It's not really clear that I did, unless I misinterpreted what you meant in the first place. But you're welcome anyways. :)

 

 

Well, I didn't say that I was seeking perfection, nor did I say EN should. I said that sometimes "good enough" isn't the best business practice and this is linguistically equivalent to what you wrote: ""Good enough" is often a worthwhile approach in business...".  I also implied that EN should seek to improve, a point on which you explicitly agreed. 

 

The issue was that EN shouldn't ignore any possible good points of Springpad just because Springpad bought the farm. A few ex-Springpadists suggested that a bit of colour wouldn't go amiss. I happen to agree with them. I also agree with BnF that other issues need to be addressed by EN. The only difference (as ever with discussions on the interwebs) is one of emphasis and related to each individual's user case.

 

And just because a user is a refugee from Springpad, it doesn't make their suggestion any less valid than an Evangelist's. 

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And just because a user is a refugee from Springpad, it doesn't make their suggestion any less valid than an Evangelist's.

I never said any such thing.

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And just because a user is a refugee from Springpad, it doesn't make their suggestion any less valid than an Evangelist's.

I never said any such thing. Fact of the matter is that an evangelist's suggestions are no more valid than those of any Evernote user.

 

It wasn't my intention to imply that you had. It was just how my thoughts progressed in the post.

 

My apologies, Jeff.

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OK, fair enough, Imagenomad -- no problem. We certainly agree on the point, and seemingly most of the rest, too. :)

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