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windows A word of caution if exporting notes (ENEX option)

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This has been mentioned before, but I forgot about it. Due to the size of my Evernote account (30,000+ notes), I set up a secondary account to handle the scalability issues and move some of the less important and older stuff.

I began selecting the older notes and exporting them using the ENEX file format.

It does a fairly good job and maintains the Created Date, formatting, tags, etc.

But it does not maintain the tag hierarchy.
You will lose your Tag Nesting levels.
 

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This has been mentioned before, but I forgot about it. Due to the size of my Evernote account (30,000+ notes), I set up a secondary account to handle the scalability issues and move some of the less important and older stuff.

I began selecting the older notes and exporting them using the ENEX file format.

It does a fairly good job and maintains the Created Date, formatting, tags, etc.

But it does not maintain the tag hierarchy.

You will lose your Tag Nesting levels.

 

 

You will also lose your notebooks, right? This is good to remember, and another reason why (if you move your notes in and out of Evernote a lot) it might be a good reason to organize primarily by titles rather than tags and notebooks. 

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This has been mentioned before, but I forgot about it. Due to the size of my Evernote account (30,000+ notes), I set up a secondary account to handle the scalability issues and move some of the less important and older stuff.

I began selecting the older notes and exporting them using the ENEX file format.

It does a fairly good job and maintains the Created Date, formatting, tags, etc.

But it does not maintain the tag hierarchy.

You will lose your Tag Nesting levels.

 

 

You will also lose your notebooks, right? This is good to remember, and another reason why (if you move your notes in and out of Evernote a lot) it might be a good reason to organize primarily by titles rather than tags and notebooks. 

 

 

Yup, you're right . Everything is put into a new notebook named "Imported Notes". Fortunately for me, (and thanks to your suggestion) I use very few notebooks, so it is easy to select the notes and move them to the correct notebook. I only move 200 notes at a time, do a sync on both accounts - rinse and repeat. I've moved 4,600 notes so far. I hope to move an additional 8,000 more and then I will drop it back from Premium to Free.

 

I share the secondary account with my primary account. The  primary account is where I am see the tags appearing twice in the left panel. One as a standard tag and the other one as a child under a parent tag.This means they are not next to each other and makes it confusing.

 

When I started with Evernote, I thought I could store up to 100,000 notes. I had planned to keep all my notes in a single Evernote account "as my second brain". But I started seeing comments from power users in this forum who were running into scalability issues and I started looking for other cloud storage locations. The past 3 months (after upgrading to version 5) have been brutal on my primary account (slowness, 10+ minute syncs, Evernote not responding, Fatal Error, etc.). To avoid a catastrophe, I'm moving more notes over to the competition.

 

Support suggested I revert back to version 4.6, which I did and the program is running so much better now.

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This has been mentioned before, but I forgot about it. Due to the size of my Evernote account (30,000+ notes), I set up a secondary account to handle the scalability issues and move some of the less important and older stuff.

I began selecting the older notes and exporting them using the ENEX file format.

It does a fairly good job and maintains the Created Date, formatting, tags, etc.

But it does not maintain the tag hierarchy.

You will lose your Tag Nesting levels.

 

 

You will also lose your notebooks, right? This is good to remember, and another reason why (if you move your notes in and out of Evernote a lot) it might be a good reason to organize primarily by titles rather than tags and notebooks. 

 

 

GM, so what you are saying is that we really can't use the features Evernote has provided with confidence.  Notebooks and Tags are the two primary ways of organizing Notes.  And for years we've been told that Tags is the preferred method.

 

IMO, what you have suggested is a work-around, not a solution.  Evernote claims to be our "external brain" for our entire life, which obviously means having tens of thousands of Notes, if not well over 100,000.  So Evernote needs to seriously address the performance of their app when the user has large numbers of Notes.

 

 

Support suggested I revert back to version 4.6, which I did and the program is running so much better now.

 

 

Hmmm, seems like Evernote is providing less processing power in new releases.

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This has been mentioned before, but I forgot about it. Due to the size of my Evernote account (30,000+ notes), I set up a secondary account to handle the scalability issues and move some of the less important and older stuff.

I began selecting the older notes and exporting them using the ENEX file format.

It does a fairly good job and maintains the Created Date, formatting, tags, etc.

But it does not maintain the tag hierarchy.

You will lose your Tag Nesting levels.

 

 

You will also lose your notebooks, right? This is good to remember, and another reason why (if you move your notes in and out of Evernote a lot) it might be a good reason to organize primarily by titles rather than tags and notebooks. 

 

 

GM, so what you are saying is that we really can't use the features Evernote has provided with confidence.  Notebooks and Tags are the two primary ways of organizing Notes.  And for years we've been told that Tags is the preferred method.

 

IMO, what you have suggested is a work-around, not a solution.  Evernote claims to be our "external brain" for our entire life, which obviously means having tens of thousands of Notes, if not well over 100,000.  So Evernote needs to seriously address the performance of their app when the user has large numbers of Notes.

 

 

Support suggested I revert back to version 4.6, which I did and the program is running so much better now.

 

 

Hmmm, seems like Evernote is providing less processing power in new releases.

 

 

My suggestion if you are going to be working only in Evernote is to make use of all the resources available including tags and notebooks. If you are planning to work in multiple apps (I export my notes out of Evernote regularly for various reasons covered in other posts), then you need to be aware that the export feature has these limits. I agree that they ought to include better support for tags and notebooks in the export feature. However, at the moment, they don't, so I have suggested this strategy. It depends on what you are planning to do with the app, right?

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I export my notes out of Evernote regularly for various reasons covered in other posts . . .

 

 

This is telling.

 

The whole point of Evernote is to have ALL your notes in one place on all devices.  If it is not supporting that well, then there needs to be some changes.

 

Personally, I barely have time to keep Evernote updated with all my notes and research.  I certainly don't have time to be manually syncing with other apps.  I want and need Evernote to be my one "go to" place for all my info.

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I export my notes out of Evernote regularly for various reasons covered in other posts . . .

 

 

This is telling.

 

The whole point of Evernote is to have ALL your notes in one place on all devices.  If it is not supporting that well, then there needs to be some changes.

 

Personally, I barely have time to keep Evernote updated with all my notes and research.  I certainly don't have time to be manually syncing with other apps.  I want and need Evernote to be my one "go to" place for all my info.

 

 

Yes. It is tiring and not recommended to anyone. However, there are a couple things I need and I really cannot compromise on them:

 

(1) Selective sync. If Evernote insists on taking up 10% or more of my HD space to accommodate a gigabyte or so of data, then I just cannot put everything into it. In fact, I can only put a small fraction of my stuff into it right now, mostly things I have in shared notebooks for my classes and so forth. 

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=127

 

(2) I need better encryption (zero-knowledge, notebook level). 

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=1605

 

It's OK that Evernote doesn't have these two features. I am not at all expecting them to implement either one, though I have often requested both out of a selfish desire to have the app better meet my use case. Personally, I think both of these would also be welcomed by many other users, but I trust that Evernote staff have thoroughly researched the options and will implement only the things they think are best for the service. That's cool.

 

Local notebooks actually cover a lot of ground for #2, but as they are inaccessible everywhere else, it is kind of painful, and, in the end, I have too much stuff to stick into the app on my computer anyhow. I can upload 49 GB a year (theoretically), and I have many hundreds of gigabytes I'd like to stick into the service, but I'll never have local drives large enough to accommodate the app. Weirdly, the iPad with its tiny storage space is actually the easiest one for me to use because it allows for selective sync, LOL :)

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Grumpy,

 

After you exported some of your notes and deleted them from Evernote, did you:

 

1.) Sync, then empty your Evernote trash notebook and then resync

or

2.) Empty your Evernote trash notebook and then sync

or

3.) Sync, but leave the deleted notes in your trash

 

The reason I am asking is that with version 5, the sync process was taking 10 minutes or longer if I deleted 200 relatively small notes.

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Grumpy,

 

After you exported some of your notes and deleted them from Evernote, did you:

 

1.) Sync, then empty your Evernote trash notebook and then resync

or

2.) Empty your Evernote trash notebook and then sync

or

3.) Sync, but leave the deleted notes in your trash

 

The reason I am asking is that with version 5, the sync process was taking 10 minutes or longer if I deleted 200 relatively small notes.

 

Hi. Sorry, but I'm working with a Mac, so not very useful at this level of detail. Usually what I do is delete everything on the Web. I prefer to take care of it at the source. 

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Grumpy,

 

After you exported some of your notes and deleted them from Evernote, did you:

 

1.) Sync, then empty your Evernote trash notebook and then resync

or

2.) Empty your Evernote trash notebook and then sync

or

3.) Sync, but leave the deleted notes in your trash

 

The reason I am asking is that with version 5, the sync process was taking 10 minutes or longer if I deleted 200 relatively small notes.

 

Hi. Sorry, but I'm working with a Mac, so not very useful at this level of detail. Usually what I do is delete everything on the Web. I prefer to take care of it at the source. 

 

 

Working with the web - I never considered that.

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

 

 

Update: Well, I gave the web a try, but could not find any way to export the notes before deleting them.

And if I export via Windows, Evernote requires a sync before closing.

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Not sure why the notebook name isn't in ENEX, but its absence been discussed in the forums, and the addition of notebook names has been requested. A bit of a gotcha for those who try to export their entire note database as a backup solution. That's why some people don't recommend that, though I've written scripts to back up on a notebook-by-notebook basis, which will work.

That tag structure isn't encoded in the note makes some sense, since a note contains a list of the tag names used (http://dev.evernote.com/doc/reference/Types.html#Struct_Note), and that probably makes the re-import more bullet-proof (or just plain easier to code) if you restructure your tags between export and import (I do understand that the code could store the entire tag path names, and try to match against the target tag tree, but ENML is designed as the over-the-wire format, so keeping just the names is marginally more space efficient). There might be other reasons as well, but that's the first one that pops up when I think about it.

 

Edit: Both of these should be documented for ENEX export users, of course. It's not in this Knowledge Base article: http://evernote.com/contact/support/kb/#/article/23186097

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Grumpy,

 

After you exported some of your notes and deleted them from Evernote, did you:

 

1.) Sync, then empty your Evernote trash notebook and then resync

or

2.) Empty your Evernote trash notebook and then sync

or

3.) Sync, but leave the deleted notes in your trash

 

The reason I am asking is that with version 5, the sync process was taking 10 minutes or longer if I deleted 200 relatively small notes.

 

Hi. Sorry, but I'm working with a Mac, so not very useful at this level of detail. Usually what I do is delete everything on the Web. I prefer to take care of it at the source. 

 

 

Working with the web - I never considered that.

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

 

 

Update: Well, I gave the web a try, but could not find any way to export the notes before deleting them.

And if I export via Windows, Evernote requires a sync before closing.

 

 

Export only works with the desktop clients. Deleting, though, works on the web.

 

The syncing behavior can be tricky, but I always assumed that was a Mac problem. Sometimes, for example, I can't get my client to open up unless I am connected to the Internet. It simultaneously has me logged in and also wants me to log in (I get the splash screen / login page) -- I've reported it for a while (maybe a year?), but for some reason this bug seems to be a tough one to track down. With my stuff mirrored in another app, it hasn't been a big deal for me.

 

Anyhow, I think ideally the app wouldn't ever need to log into the server, so that would be a nice change to see. I think the login as a requirement is a relatively recent phenomenon with the Mac app; maybe that behavior has been transferred over with the new Windows update?

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@GrumpyMonkey... you wrote:  "Hi. Sorry, but I'm working with a Mac, so not very useful at this level of detail. Usually what I do is delete everything on the Web. I prefer to take care of it at the source."

 

 

Why do you consider the Web as "the source"?  I rarely even look at EN web location as I am not currently using it for access from away from my computer... I use EN to store info from internet sites, but then immediately force a sync and use it from my desktop (Windows).

 

BTW, is there a way to reinsert the Quote markers?  (i.e. get to the HTML code)?  I didn't want to quote the enter post including the stuff you quoted, but when I deleted the previous quote they went away.

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Again, I come back to Evernote's claim/plan to be our external brain for everything for our entire life.

 

Clearly, it is just a matter of time before many of us have more Notes than can be stored on the local hard drive for either Win or Mac.

 

So, IMO, we need the following for long term use of Evernote:

  1. Ability to select which Notes are stored locally, hopefully by either Notebook or Tag.
  2. Ability to use external hard drives (including NAS) for storage of some or all Notes
  3. Ability to export Notes with all metadata (including Notebook, Tags, Tag structure) included so that an import of same Notes would work like a simple Restore.
  4. Improved Sync processing on both local app and backend servers so that syncing a few Notes (< 100) works quickly even if we have large numbers (> 100K) of total Notes.
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@GrumpyMonkey... you wrote:  "Hi. Sorry, but I'm working with a Mac, so not very useful at this level of detail. Usually what I do is delete everything on the Web. I prefer to take care of it at the source."

 

 

Why do you consider the Web as "the source"?  I rarely even look at EN web location as I am not currently using it for access from away from my computer... I use EN to store info from internet sites, but then immediately force a sync and use it from my desktop (Windows).

 

BTW, is there a way to reinsert the Quote markers?  (i.e. get to the HTML code)?  I didn't want to quote the enter post including the stuff you quoted, but when I deleted the previous quote they went away.

 

 

Hi.

 

Your devices (mobile, computer, etc.) all sync with Evernote servers in order to have the same information everywhere. Everything goes through the Evernote servers so if you make a change there it will populate to every other computer. If you make a change on your local computer you'll have to process it there first before it goes up to the Evernote server, and then it will populate to everything else.

 

Sometimes, for a tag name change, a notebook change, or something else like that it can take many hours to process it on my computer (I have a bunch of notes). This makes it difficult (sometimes impossible) to keep working (besides draining my laptop battery). Of course, this also helps explain why I don't use as many tags or notebooks. It just depends on what your situation is.

 

I assume that Evernote's servers have more processing power than my laptop and that is why I do big changes there. Am I correct in doing this? Maybe not. But, it has worked for me pretty well so far.

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Your devices (mobile, computer, etc.) all sync with Evernote servers in order to have the same information everywhere. Everything goes through the Evernote servers so if you make a change there it will populate to every other computer. If you make a change on your local computer you'll have to process it there first before it goes up to the Evernote server, and then it will populate to everything else.

 

Sometimes, for a tag name change, a notebook change, or something else like that it can take many hours to process it on my computer (I have a bunch of notes). This makes it difficult (sometimes impossible) to keep working (besides draining my laptop battery). Of course, this also helps explain why I don't use as many tags or notebooks. It just depends on what your situation is.

 

I assume that Evernote's servers have more processing power than my laptop and that is why I do big changes there. Am I correct in doing this? Maybe not. But, it has worked for me pretty well so far.

 

 

GM, after you make the changes using the EN Web client, you still have to sync your EN Mac client.  Are you saying that the sync is faster when the changes are make via EN Web?

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Your devices (mobile, computer, etc.) all sync with Evernote servers in order to have the same information everywhere. Everything goes through the Evernote servers so if you make a change there it will populate to every other computer. If you make a change on your local computer you'll have to process it there first before it goes up to the Evernote server, and then it will populate to everything else.

 

Sometimes, for a tag name change, a notebook change, or something else like that it can take many hours to process it on my computer (I have a bunch of notes). This makes it difficult (sometimes impossible) to keep working (besides draining my laptop battery). Of course, this also helps explain why I don't use as many tags or notebooks. It just depends on what your situation is.

 

I assume that Evernote's servers have more processing power than my laptop and that is why I do big changes there. Am I correct in doing this? Maybe not. But, it has worked for me pretty well so far.

 

 

GM, after you make the changes using the EN Web client, you still have to sync your EN Mac client.  Are you saying that the sync is faster when the changes are make via EN Web?

 

 

I don't know about the sync, but the problem I have is with the processing of major changes. It "seems" to go faster, especially with deletion. Give it a try and see what you think. Of course, ideally, I'd be able to do it with a snap of my fingers on the Mac! We'll get there.

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@GrumpyMonkey... you wrote:  "Hi. Sorry, but I'm working with a Mac, so not very useful at this level of detail. Usually what I do is delete everything on the Web. I prefer to take care of it at the source."

 

 

Why do you consider the Web as "the source"?  I rarely even look at EN web location as I am not currently using it for access from away from my computer... I use EN to store info from internet sites, but then immediately force a sync and use it from my desktop (Windows).

 

BTW, is there a way to reinsert the Quote markers?  (i.e. get to the HTML code)?  I didn't want to quote the enter post including the stuff you quoted, but when I deleted the previous quote they went away.

 

 

Hi.

 

Your devices (mobile, computer, etc.) all sync with Evernote servers in order to have the same information everywhere. Everything goes through the Evernote servers so if you make a change there it will populate to every other computer. If you make a change on your local computer you'll have to process it there first before it goes up to the Evernote server, and then it will populate to everything else.

 

Sometimes, for a tag name change, a notebook change, or something else like that it can take many hours to process it on my computer (I have a bunch of notes). This makes it difficult (sometimes impossible) to keep working (besides draining my laptop battery). Of course, this also helps explain why I don't use as many tags or notebooks. It just depends on what your situation is.

 

I assume that Evernote's servers have more processing power than my laptop and that is why I do big changes there. Am I correct in doing this? Maybe not. But, it has worked for me pretty well so far.

 

makes sense... I don't put anything in a shared notebook that I wouldn't want the NSA or my next door neighbor or some spammer in Pakistan to see cause I don't trust the security of EN servers or any other servers that I can't secure myself.   Also I am not trying to access the EN data from another device so I'm pretty focused on what I do at my desk... trying to get rid of as much paper as possible.  I see where you are coming from however.    All this concern about scalability and performance and storage space (and security, of course) HAS to be addressed appropriately by the EN development team to stay viable in the market place.

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