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windows (Archived) V5 Beta 2

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We have a policy at Evernote to trust our employees and Evernote Business is built around that premise. We encourage the use of Business Notebooks but don't force the point. People will use business notebooks because we make it a good/seamless experience to move content freely between personal and business contexts.

With all due respect, no you don't. You don't allow any movement. You copy the note and delete the original, and only on Windows and Mac. That destroys note links. I was told this was because EN wants a Chinese wall between the two sets of data, and I get that, and love that. And you cannot do this on any mobile platform or on the web interface.

This has nothing to do with trust. This has to do with employees inadvertently putting stuff in the wrong bin because in 5.x, you CANNOT tell the difference. You have to have the notebooks names memorized, and if they get it wrong, the the company loses data. And the tag issue is just absolute chaos.

 

Also, the UI of v5 for Windows is not final and we have some changes in the works regarding the separation of business/personal content. We definitely test our software and listen to our users. I mean... hello, my name is Jack and I work at Evernote. Glad you guys are enjoying the beta version of our new software :)

I am glad this is happening. However, there is no indication of this in this thread or in the thread specifically on the personal/business issues.

 

 

What a mess.  It is clear that the Evernote developers did not think through, and TEST, the behavior of Tags in a mixed Personal/Business environment.

Come on J :)

 

In a month and a half, yours is the first message I've seen from anyone at EN that has suggested that "Hmmm.. maybe the way it works in 5.x isn't optimal, and we have work to do." THat is appreciated. I never expected quick fixes or 100% agreement. But being non-communicative about it has been entirely too frustrating.

 

You do realize people on this thread love the product right? Often intensely. I've given up dozens of hours installing 5.x, testing and uninstalling going back to 4 because 5 doesn't work right. That is no small task with 16,000+ notes and a 13GB datbase. It is a 6hr process each 4.x reinstall, and we have KILLER bandwidth here. I've provided a TON of feedback, and my feedback is a fraction of what the other enthusiasts have provided. And other than quick-hit bugs, the feedback from EN on this has been sub-optimal at best.

 

Very frustrating.

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I can't tell you how much we appreciate all of the feedback here. We read every single post on this forum (often to the detriment of our own emotional well-being) and we share what we can. As many of you know, we don't discuss release schedules or internal plans, because we go through dozens of iterations before releasing even the smallest change and don't want to set expectations incorrectly. You should also know that this is more than a full-time job for us and we take it very seriously. We know that Evernote is not only our livelihood, but often the livelihood of our users. 

 

Let's keep the feedback constructive and free-flowing! We want to make this thing great for all of us.

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I can't tell you how much we appreciate all of the feedback here. We read every single post on this forum (often to the detriment of our own emotional well-being) and we share what we can. As many of you know, we don't discuss release schedules or internal plans, because we go through dozens of iterations before releasing even the smallest change and don't want to set expectations incorrectly. You should also know that this is more than a full-time job for us and we take it very seriously. We know that Evernote is not only our livelihood, but often the livelihood of our users. 

 

Let's keep the feedback constructive and free-flowing! We want to make this thing great for all of us.

Nice post Jack. Thanks for the hard work and for the betas. It's great that Evernote is collecting user feedback here!

OK. Let's have some concrete suggestions and stay away from vague assertions about the interest of developers in their work -- I think we can safely assume they are fanatical about working with one of the most popular apps in the world today, even if we don't always see eye to eye :)

As for the separation issue, I think it could "begin" to be addressed fairly simply (I know we always say this, but I mean it!) by starting with some colors and iconography. In the previous version, I found Windows really easy to use because the iconography was colored and distinct. You could tell at a glance what kind of notebook you were using.

This doesn't solve the problem (I've suggested many other longterm solutions), but it at least mitigates the chaos. It would be a start, and it is something that already exists. Just a thought (by the way, could someone post some screenshots, because I am away from my Windows machine until Friday?). Expanding this thinking to tags would help immensely. When all of the tags are the same color (as they are on the Mac -- see my screenshot here https://www.evernote.com/shard/s74/sh/6aecf667-c2b9-40ed-ac72-ad4eb30f52df/4d2b37dfb08d02a5650bae040bac5c36) it is less than ideal.

I know, this isn't the Mac forum, and because I don't have my Windows machine with me, I can't provide specific comments. Feel free to disregard this post, except for the message that I hope you will be careful with this, because some of these changes can have devastating effects.

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Let's keep the feedback constructive and free-flowing! We want to make this thing great for all of us.

I agree 100%. Free-flowing goes both ways though, and it is frustrating to give feedback, get a "thanks" with no indication of what that means. Then the next beta comes out, few/no changes in area X, testing and feedback repeated, "Thanks again!" is given.  :wacko:

 

Say, "Thanks, we aren't changing that" or "Thanks, that is being looked into, but don't expect it in the next rev" or something. 

 

It is hard to remain constructive and positive when you feel like you are being patted on the head.

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As for the separation issue, I think it could "begin" to be addressed fairly simply (I know we always say this, but I mean it!) by starting with some colors and iconography. In the previous version, I found Windows really easy to use because the iconography was colored and distinct. You could tell at a glance what kind of notebook you were using.

If this simply has not been added back to the new UI yet, I get it.

If it has been intentionally removed to improve the aesthetic, just wow...

Regards,

Gary

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Would be great if you could add a column in the list view that allows sorting by reminder date/time.

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Also, the UI of v5 for Windows is not final and we have some changes in the works regarding the separation of business/personal content. We definitely test our software and listen to our users. I mean... hello, my name is Jack and I work at Evernote. Glad you guys are enjoying the beta version of our new software :)

I take it as a given that we're using beta software, though some of the problems that I've pointed out have existed since before V5 came out, specifically the divergence of UI activities that affect the note list and search grammar capabilities -- this is a real break in a sort of contract that existed, at least in the Windows product, for some years beforehand: you can create a note filter and persist it as a saved search that behaves identically.

The problem that I'm having with shared tags is newer, but like the former issue, the problem that I'm having is that I have no sense of any underlying coherent philosophy regarding tags in a shared environment. The UI shows me the different instances of identically named tags in the tag tree, yet I can't search using those tags (individually or collectively) effectively without a lot of bother/guesswork. Trying to search using a shared tag leads directly into a failure mode. The normal question at that point, in my mind, is "why"? What's the basis for the behavior? Is it "just because" or by design? If it's by design, what's the reasoning behind it? I ca't figure it out yet, because it's pretty much inconsistent and broken in that scenario.

Give us a clue, tell us what the thinking is -- for most of the folks here, it's going to help them helping out other Evernote users to understand things here on the forum when they get hit with the same issues.

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Tags in a shared environment are somewhat broken now in that they don't behave consistently in search on the Windows client. We expect this to be resolved but not immediately.

 

I don't have a ton of time right now to expound right now but I do acknowledge that search needs help. 

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Tags in a shared environment are somewhat broken now in that they don't behave consistently in search on the Windows client. We expect this to be resolved but not immediately.

 

I don't have a ton of time right now to expound right now but I do acknowledge that search needs help.

OK, fair enough. I look forward to understanding what the solution is, and why it is. I'll stop banging the drum on this one (beating drums is something I do in treal life, so that's a big concession :)) Thanks, Jack.

Edit: I did find that using a wildcard (e.g. "tag:_Todo*") will work to capture any instance of identically named tags, so that's a workaround, for now.

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Using build 261559 which I believe is the latest beta.  When I try to use Ctrl-F8 to turn note editor on and off, the editor does not change until I click away from the note.  If I click Ctrl-F8 there is no response but if I click away to a separate note, the editor bar will appear.  

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Using build 261559 which I believe is the latest beta.  When I try to use Ctrl-F8 to turn note editor on and off, the editor does not change until I click away from the note.  If I click Ctrl-F8 there is no response but if I click away to a separate note, the editor bar will appear.  

 

Ctrl+F8 toggles the editing toolbar, not the editor window itself.  Also, my understanding from looking at the code, is that Ctrl+F8 is only active when AutoShowNoteToolbar is set to 0 in the registry (when that setting is 1, the toolbar autohides, so there's no need to manually control it).

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Using build 261559 which I believe is the latest beta.  When I try to use Ctrl-F8 to turn note editor on and off, the editor does not change until I click away from the note.  If I click Ctrl-F8 there is no response but if I click away to a separate note, the editor bar will appear.

 

Ctrl+F8 toggles the editing toolbar, not the editor window itself.  Also, my understanding from looking at the code, is that Ctrl+F8 is only active when AutoShowNoteToolbar is set to 0 in the registry (when that setting is 1, the toolbar autohides, so there's no need to manually control it).

Can confirm this. Ctrl + F8 is only active when AutoShowNoteToolbar is off (0)

I love this setting by the way. I had a problem with the way that it changed depending on the use, as it felt a little unintuitive to me, so as soon as I saw the setting I changed it.

Also, the latest beta thread is here:

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/41033-evernote-for-windows-v5-beta-3/

Scott

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Using build 261559 which I believe is the latest beta.  When I try to use Ctrl-F8 to turn note editor on and off, the editor does not change until I click away from the note.  If I click Ctrl-F8 there is no response but if I click away to a separate note, the editor bar will appear.  

 

Ctrl+F8 toggles the editing toolbar, not the editor window itself.  Also, my understanding from looking at the code, is that Ctrl+F8 is only active when AutoShowNoteToolbar is set to 0 in the registry (when that setting is 1, the toolbar autohides, so there's no need to manually control it).

 

 

I use this feature a lot and this behavior has changed for some reason.  Before, I pressed Ctrl-F8 and the editing toolbar immediately toggled on or off.  Now, I press Ctrl-F8 and nothing happens until I click away from the current note and then click back to it. 

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Using build 261559 which I believe is the latest beta.  When I try to use Ctrl-F8 to turn note editor on and off, the editor does not change until I click away from the note.  If I click Ctrl-F8 there is no response but if I click away to a separate note, the editor bar will appear.  

 

Ctrl+F8 toggles the editing toolbar, not the editor window itself.  Also, my understanding from looking at the code, is that Ctrl+F8 is only active when AutoShowNoteToolbar is set to 0 in the registry (when that setting is 1, the toolbar autohides, so there's no need to manually control it).

 

 

I use this feature a lot and this behavior has changed for some reason.  Before, I pressed Ctrl-F8 and the editing toolbar immediately toggled on or off.  Now, I press Ctrl-F8 and nothing happens until I click away from the current note and then click back to it. 

 

 

Yeah, the editing toolbar was changed to autohide by default based on where you're currently focused.  If you don't want that behavior, you need to exit Evernote completely (including the tray icon) and set AutoShowNoteToolbar to 0 in the registry. That will reinstate the previous behavior that you're describing.

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Using build 261559 which I believe is the latest beta.  When I try to use Ctrl-F8 to turn note editor on and off, the editor does not change until I click away from the note.  If I click Ctrl-F8 there is no response but if I click away to a separate note, the editor bar will appear.  

 

Ctrl+F8 toggles the editing toolbar, not the editor window itself.  Also, my understanding from looking at the code, is that Ctrl+F8 is only active when AutoShowNoteToolbar is set to 0 in the registry (when that setting is 1, the toolbar autohides, so there's no need to manually control it).

 

 

I use this feature a lot and this behavior has changed for some reason.  Before, I pressed Ctrl-F8 and the editing toolbar immediately toggled on or off.  Now, I press Ctrl-F8 and nothing happens until I click away from the current note and then click back to it. 

 

 

Yeah, the editing toolbar was changed to autohide by default based on where you're currently focused.  If you don't want that behavior, you need to exit Evernote completely (including the tray icon) and set AutoShowNoteToolbar to 0 in the registry. That will reinstate the previous behavior that you're describing.

 

 

Thanks, I'm getting it now.  With the new default, there is no way to hide the editing toolbar when you are in focused on the note?  I don't think that's a step forward but I guess it's personal preference.  Not ideal to have to go to the registry to change this setting.

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Thanks, I'm getting it now.  With the new default, there is no way to hide the editing toolbar when you are in focused on the note?  I don't think that's a step forward but I guess it's personal preference.  Not ideal to have to go to the registry to change this setting.

Well, changing it directly in the registry wont be the only option ;)

http://www.evernote.com/shard/s26/sh/e89b1445-a8f5-46a9-a6a7-d36ae631a0f5/4a489e434c3d10e5a3932156e4d62ee7

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Thanks, I'm getting it now.  With the new default, there is no way to hide the editing toolbar when you are in focused on the note?  I don't think that's a step forward but I guess it's personal preference.  Not ideal to have to go to the registry to change this setting.

Well, changing it directly in the registry wont be the only option ;)

http://www.evernote.com/shard/s26/sh/e89b1445-a8f5-46a9-a6a7-d36ae631a0f5/4a489e434c3d10e5a3932156e4d62ee7

 

 

That's great!  I never saw this before but it looks like something I would find useful.  I'll check it out.

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That's great!  I never saw this before but it looks like something I would find useful.  I'll check it out.

I am going through it and removing the v4 items that are not used anymore (no more favourites bar :( ) and adding the new ones that I think are useful in v5, expect this one to be there for sure. :)

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(no more favourites bar :( )

 

 

What? No Favorites Bar?

Some icons are critical to my minute-by-minute usage of Evernote.

I literally live off the Favorites Bar.

 

I'll scan the V5 Beta 3 forum post to see if it is missing there also.

 

I did not see any mention of the missing Favorite Bar, so I posted a question there.

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/41033-evernote-for-windows-v5-beta-3/?p=222290

Edited by jbenson2

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(no more favourites bar :( )

 

 

What? No Favorites Bar?

Some icons are critical to my minute-by-minute usage of Evernote.

I literally live off the Favorites Bar.

 

I'll scan the V5 Beta 3 forum post to see if it is missing there also.

 

I did not see any mention of the missing Favorite Bar, so I posted a question there.

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/41033-evernote-for-windows-v5-beta-3/?p=222290

 

 

Favorites bar is gone.  :(

 

Now you can stick some of the things the favorites bar held in the "shortcuts" section of the left panel, which scrolls out of view easily, so they aren't really shortcuts. Not sure what you call some of your favorite things that are not always available without scrolling.

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Just started playing with the latest release and wanted to toss in my initial impressions.

 

  • Updated visuals (colors, camel-case menu text, etc...) are improvements over beta 1.  Thanks for the change.
  • Fatter scrollbars are far more usable than the skinny ones.  Thanks for the change.
  • Reminders are working well for me.  Thanks for the change.
  • New keyboard shortcuts for quickly choosing notebooks and tags are great.  Thanks for the change.

 

Loving this update, which is nice because I was especially bitter after using beta 1.  On the right track now for my tastes; Thanks.

 

 

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Please folks -- post your impressions in the beta 3 topic (currently pinned to the top of the forum). If you're not using beta 3 already, you should hop on it, and then post in that topic.

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