Throwing In The Towel

[RonW 8]

After trying very hard to make Evernote Business work for our business, we are giving up. There is just no way that we can manage our documents without the use of a folder hierarchy  We tried to make tags work, but they require too much discipline to use in a consistent manner. Plus most folks just don't find them to be as intuitive as nested folders.

 

So we are in the process of moving everything (again) to Google Drive. GD is not nearly as nice to use for searching and previewing documents, but at least it supports a folder hierarchy that everyone here clearly understands.

 

[ZZZ 135]

I understand your grief.  I tested EN Business once and gave up on it because of this.  I am about to test it again and see if I can find a scenario where we can make it work, which speaks to how well it does so many other things.  This should be their top development priority for the business product.

[RonW 8]

I am afraid that there will be no turning back for us. Moving our business documents from one system to another is just such a monumental task, i doubt we'll ever consider Evernote for business use again. Which really is a shame. The personal version works so incredibly well. It is just too bad that they were not able to come up with an equal product for business.

[ZZZ 135]

We tried to make tags work, but they require too much discipline to use in a consistent manner. Plus most folks just don't find them to be as intuitive as nested folders.

BTW, but I think the above sums up one of the huge issues with trying to use the *existing* tagging system for business.  Tags as they exist now

can work awesome for users, but for teams it's an entirely different issue for the above reason and many more.

 

I am afraid that there will be no turning back for us. Moving our business documents from one system to another is just such a monumental task, i doubt we'll ever consider Evernote for business use again. Which really is a shame. The personal version works so incredibly well. It is just too bad that they were not able to come up with an equal product for business.

That's a shame.  I'm testing it for a much more limited use scenario luckily.  Personally, I'd never attempt to use it for anything but very limited business document use anyhow like sharing documents for a few projects, or as a shared knowledge management solution, since it's really just a note system that allows attachments.  Even if it did allow a hierarchy it still seems to me like trying to use it for document management would become a nightmare pretty quickly.  Then again...as long as it would work for you.... .

 

Not sure what you're needs are exactly but you might want to check out Egnyte.  It's very reasonably priced and on most fronts does a hell of a lot more than GDrive with a hell of a lot more storage.  They also seem to develop quite rapidly.  It even integrates with Google docs.  Just mentioning it in case it helps.  It is more of a file management system though, nothing like EN.

[C6REW 416]

Hi Ron,

 

Fully understand that once you get a mind set, particularly when there are a number of people involved, it can be very hard to change.

 

I have commented on features many times so forgive me if I paste my normal response below in case you have been 'bored' by it before. But I think it explains fairly well the situation with features and changes that people often want with software. I guess it is too late for you now, but it may help as a thought process with whatever software you choose for this storing of data in the future.

 

Always an interesting debate when this comes up.

 

Requesting a feature is good, but don't let it stop you using the software!

 

The important issue is to look at software such as Evernote and decide if it solves your problem. It does seem as though you have already done that.

 

The next thing is to work out what the limitations are and find a work round for those limitations. You will find if you look outside the box (sometimes easier said than done of course) that 'tags' will probably solve your problem. But, because you have never worked that way before it can be hard to see it. I may be wrong, but nonetheless it is worth being open minded to yourself about what you want.

 

I have mentioned this before (must Evernote it, so I don't have to type it out next time). I used to sell quality control software back in the days of floppy discs. Two discs cost about £25k. A lot of money even by today's standard!

 

Customers would often ask for a feature in the software that was not there. A bit like asking for nested notebooks! My reply was always the same, yes we can put it to the team to see if it is an often requested feature at one of our monthly meetings. But if you want it now, the cost will be in excess of £250k to add it in! The reply was always one of shock. But of course if you use a team to write something NOW it costs a lot of money. It may be of use to others and may be added as some date. But remember, the percentages of potential users will need to be high to add a feature that will probably take 6 months plus of testing to make sure it works!

 

Or!!! 

 

'You could work within the limitations of the software!'

 

Hope that helps.

 

Best regards

 

 

Chris

[RonW 8]

Chris,

 

I think this goes a bit beyond the software not having a specific feature. This is more of a paradigm shift. Businesses have been using hierarchical storage structures for probably as long as there have been computers, and what Evernote is suggesting is that we completely abandon this proven and widely used method in favour of tags and search. We tried it, and found that it is just too much of a change. Personally, I have no problems with just using tags. But the reality is, my employees are just not there yet.

 

I think that Evernote has made a big mistake in not supporting shareable, hierarchical folders in the business edition of Evernote.

[C6REW 416]

Hi Ron,

 

I get it and really do understand that it can be just too difficult for people to have a 'mind set' change.

 

The fact that businesses have used hierarchical storage structures for as long as there are computers doesn't mean that those structures have to follow a specific design - in this case folders - as requested by what is, after all, a small number of users. Tags are of course just another form of folder, but some people just cannot or maybe don't want to see it. - Don't take that personally by the way, it is a generic statement!

 

Having been in business for 40 years and at senior level in some very large organisations I understand and see your problem with your employees. However, I have managed to find a simple way for my company to get over the very minor change that is needed and like all these things if you can get your head around it, you will wonder how you managed before!

 

As mentioned above, I would also like to see the feature of folders added and imagine that it will eventually arrive. But for me and my company it is not an important feature, but one I will be pleased to have.

 

Best regards

 

Chris

[dspapps 6]

Agree with OP.  What is worse for us is that on iPad client the notebooks aren't arranged into notebook stacks, just a long list.

[ZZZ 135]

Agree with OP.  What is worse for us is that on iPad client the notebooks aren't arranged into notebook stacks, just a long list.

 

People have been railing about iPad functionality forever but for some reason EN seems intent on totally destroying the EN experience on the iPad to make it look cute and different than every single other device/platform.  I ended up installed Clever HD on the iPad to get a usable iPad interface.  Not sure how/if it works with business notebooks.  https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clever-hd-for-evernote-another/id568312823?mt=8

[dlu 628]

After trying very hard to make Evernote Business work for our business, we are giving up. There is just no way that we can manage our documents without the use of a folder hierarchy  We tried to make tags work, but they require too much discipline to use in a consistent manner. Plus most folks just don't find them to be as intuitive as nested folders.

 

So we are in the process of moving everything (again) to Google Drive. GD is not nearly as nice to use for searching and previewing documents, but at least it supports a folder hierarchy that everyone here clearly understands.

 

Hi Ron,

 

I wanted to ask what types of issues people had with nested tags & search. Is it hard to find the tags themselves? Are there some properties of tags that differ too widely from folders?

 

Would love to understand this more fully. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to chat privately. Invitation to PM extends to other Evernote Business users as well.

 

thanks!

Daniel

[RonW 8]

Hello Daniel,

 

The number one issue that our employees had with tags is that they are not hierarchical. Anyone who uses a computer these days seems to have an intuitive understanding of folder structures and are accustomed to categorizing files in some sort of logical order. E.g., /2013/business documents/agreements/, or /2013/projects/project id/drawings/. If you try to rely on tags alone, you end up with an incredibly large, flat list of tags that are hard to find anything in.

 

Yes, you can use search, but search results typically include many unrelated documents that are then difficult to scan through to find the one you want. Where search really works well is for transactional documents. That is any kind of document that has a unique ID number. E.g, invoices, quotes, etc. But if there there is nothing particularly unique about a document, then search is not a very good tool. Instead, a hierarchical storage system seems to work best for these types of documents.

 

Tags are definitely a useful tool, but only if you can combine them with search and hierarchical storage.

 

We used the personal version of Evernote for parts of our business for the past year and found that it worked extremely well overall. Mainly because it gave you a full suite of document management tools - tags, hierarchical storage and excellent search. Releasing the business version without hierarchical storage so seriously crippled its functionality that we had to give up on it.

[ZZZ 135]

We used the personal version of Evernote for parts of our business for the past year and found that it worked extremely well overall. Mainly because it gave you a full suite of document management tools - tags, hierarchical storage and excellent search. Releasing the business version without hierarchical storage so seriously crippled its functionality that we had to give up on it.

 

I have an associate as well that actually uses a shared personal account for their team because it functions so much better than the business version.  Of course the problem with that approach is permissions etc., but at least it's usable.  If it was possible to have two personal accounts open simultaneously so that I could have my personal account and the shared personal account open at the same time, I might use it for one of our teams as well.

[ZZZ 135]

Are there some properties of tags that differ too widely from folders?

Hi Daniel,

 

You didn't ask me, but since we also tested and desperately wanted to use EN for business, but also gave up on it, I hope you don't mind if I answer.

 

1. Tags can't have permissions associated with them.

2. Ease of use is critical for business users.  It's easy for a user to select a folder, then create a note in it.  DONE, and the note is where it needs to be, if they want to optionally tag, great.  However a user cannot select a tag, and then create a note and have that tag automatically assigned to it.  So IF a business tries to use tags to create structure, the employee needs to remember, every single time, to create a note in the correct notebook, and then assign a tag to it.  NOT going to happen.

3. It's been a while since I tested it, but not being able to have nested tags in the business edition once again makes them next to unusable if the goal is to use them instead of folders.

 

In a nutshell, the business edition needs nested folders and nested tags. 

 

My next request is lower priority and I won't hold my breath because I doubt EN will see it as something that should drive development and I understand that, but being able to create ordered notebooks and notes would make it be able to function as an invaluable knowledge base tool for small businesses.  Here's a nice example of an ordered knowledge base, and being able to order content is now a standard feature of most knowledge bases (mindtouch, zendesk etc.).  This one has lots of nesting, but if EN could implement even one level that would be adequate I think.  http://odysseemobile.host4kb.com/

 

I actually think EN could be a surprisingly good/robust knowledge base solution, even though that's not what it's designed for.

[dspapps 6]

We are using it as a portable knowledge base.  It is populated online and then used in an offline environment.

 

We are trying to move from a traditional docuwiki solution to EN.

[dspapps 6]

Agree with OP.  What is worse for us is that on iPad client the notebooks aren't arranged into notebook stacks, just a long list.

 

People have been railing about iPad functionality forever but for some reason EN seems intent on totally destroying the EN experience on the iPad to make it look cute and different than every single other device/platform.  I ended up installed Clever HD on the iPad to get a usable iPad interface.  Not sure how/if it works with business notebooks.  https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clever-hd-for-evernote-another/id568312823?mt=8

 

For me the iPad client is a little bizarre and I can't see the design being retained for long.  It's not logical or usable.

 

If heavy emphasis is placed on an innovative design, there must be a pay-off in increased ease of use.

 

Clever HD appears to be more logically laid out and the failure of the stock client to deliver the basics in favour of an eclectic design is something that hopefully other EN client builders may capitalise on.

 

Edit - business notebooks appear in the 'Shared Notebooks' area.  Haven't investigated if it does sync, offline notebooks or business library quite yet.

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

 

Agree with OP.  What is worse for us is that on iPad client the notebooks aren't arranged into notebook stacks, just a long list.

 

People have been railing about iPad functionality forever but for some reason EN seems intent on totally destroying the EN experience on the iPad to make it look cute and different than every single other device/platform.  I ended up installed Clever HD on the iPad to get a usable iPad interface.  Not sure how/if it works with business notebooks.  https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clever-hd-for-evernote-another/id568312823?mt=8

 

For me the iPad client is a little bizarre and I can't see the design being retained for long.  It's not logical or usable.

 

If heavy emphasis is placed on an innovative design, there must be a pay-off in increased ease of use.

 

Clever HD appears to be more logically laid out and the failure of the stock client to deliver the basics in favour of an eclectic design is something that hopefully other EN client builders may capitalise on.

 

Edit - business notebooks appear in the 'Shared Notebooks' area.  Haven't investigated if it does sync, offline notebooks or business library quite yet.

 

Hi. What is bizarre, illogical, and un-usable about it? I'd be interested to hear the particulars, and I am sure the development team would like to know as well. In my experience, the interface is quite easy to use, and is a huge improvement on the old one.

 

There are issues that I have with how search works (no ability to modify saved searches once you start them, and no ability to edit them), the lack of sort options (no reverse sort is especially noticeable), no offline joined notebooks (except for business ones), and other such criticisms. However, these suggestions for improvement are tweaks to the current UI, and not fundamental changes to it.

[dspapps 6]

To give one example, I don't understand the logic in removing the concept of notebook stacks from the iPad client.  To me that is a bizarre decision.  I take time naming notebook stacks in a logical way to help the users.  There is no 'why' stated as to the purpose of removing notebook stacks.

 

Having a single alphabetical list of notebooks isn't a solution which scales well as more and more are added.

 

On your client I can see 12 notebooks with no clear idea on how they relate to each other, on Clever HD I can see 20 notebook stacks listed.  I am directed straight away to the topic of interest via notebook stack name, I don't need to know the notebook name immediately.

 

In my view, clients should have a similar look and feel across all devices wherever possible, or improve upon the standard client in a logical way, taking advantage of the unique capabilities of each device/platform.

 

The horizontal tab layout doesn't work for me and when I compare my navigation experience with Clever HD.

 

A suggestion for improvement would be to follow Clever HD's initiative and provide easier access to notebooks.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

To give one example, I don't understand the logic in removing the concept of notebook stacks from the iPad client.  To me that is a bizarre decision.  I take time naming notebook stacks in a logical way to help the users.  There is no 'why' stated as to the purpose of removing notebook stacks.

 

AFAIK, stacks were not removed from the iPad...rather they've never been rolled out yet. (They are/were on the iPhone client, though.)

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/23740-stacked-notebooks-dont-stay-stacked/

 

 

On your client I can see 12 notebooks with no clear idea on how they relate to each other, on Clever HD I can see 20 notebook stacks listed.

 

 

Evangelists are not Evernote employees or not affiliated with EN in any way except for being long time, knowledgeable users of Evernote.

 

 

In my view, clients should have a similar look and feel across all devices wherever possible, or improve upon the standard client in a logical way, taking advantage of the unique capabilities of each device/platform.

 

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38634-why-is-en-different-on-every-platform/

[dspapps 6]

OK, if they are on the roadmap, then that is good news.  Thanks for the info.

[dspapps 6]

Apologies - I reread my post and I used the word 'removed' wrongly.  I meant to indicate they were so far not available.

[kcRush 0]

:huh:   so sad

[redc 0]

Is there still no way to create a hierarchy of tags on the business edition?

 

Just upgraded to it but I guess it's more of a downgrade.

 

How come it can exist in the personal but not business edition?

 

Has anyone found a workaround?

[EdH 1,670]

Is there still no way to create a hierarchy of tags on the business edition?

 

Just upgraded to it but I guess it's more of a downgrade.

 

How come it can exist in the personal but not business edition?

 

Has anyone found a workaround?

 

No. Tags in the business edition are sorely lacking, even in version 4 where business and personal tags are separate.

[redc 0]

Not only is there no hierarchy for tags but there also appears no way for the business user to search by tags. 

We have about 1000 tags. 

We assigned each a prefix for easy searching.

 

For example, category: coffee. 

Tags would be: cof-mocha, cof-capuccino, etc. 

If we search by cof-m it will show the cof-mocha which we select but then no notes are visible.

 

So it appears the only way to use the tags is to click select it from the left panel. Well there are 1000 of them all arranged in a simple flat interface. So it's really inconvenient to do it this way, especially when you want to ctrl+select more than one tag at a time.

 

Does anyone have a good system for managing the tags?

Evernote, do you have a video on how to use tags with the business edition?

[jbenson2 2,147]

Not only is there no hierarchy for tags but there also appears no way for the business user to search by tags. 

We have about 1000 tags. 

We assigned each a prefix for easy searching.

 

For example, category: coffee. 

Tags would be: cof-mocha, cof-capuccino, etc. 

If we search by cof-m it will show the cof-mocha which we select but then no notes are visible.

 

So it appears the only way to use the tags is to click select it from the left panel. Well there are 1000 of them all arranged in a simple flat interface. So it's really inconvenient to do it this way, especially when you want to ctrl+select more than one tag at a time.

 

Does anyone have a good system for managing the tags?

Evernote, do you have a video on how to use tags with the business edition?

 

The tag prefix management works for my 1,400 tags.

 

Don't search for cof-m

Search for tag:cof-m*

[redc 0]

 

Not only is there no hierarchy for tags but there also appears no way for the business user to search by tags. 

We have about 1000 tags. 

We assigned each a prefix for easy searching.

 

For example, category: coffee. 

Tags would be: cof-mocha, cof-capuccino, etc. 

If we search by cof-m it will show the cof-mocha which we select but then no notes are visible.

 

So it appears the only way to use the tags is to click select it from the left panel. Well there are 1000 of them all arranged in a simple flat interface. So it's really inconvenient to do it this way, especially when you want to ctrl+select more than one tag at a time.

 

Does anyone have a good system for managing the tags?

Evernote, do you have a video on how to use tags with the business edition?

 

The tag prefix management works for my 1,400 tags.

 

Don't search for cof-m

Search for tag:cof-m*

 

Thanks, that does work.

 

Problem is that you have to actually type the complete name of the tag, i.e. it will not autocomplete it for you. So we have to remember each complete tag name and  not make any mistakes.

 

Is there any better system for managing these tags?

[jbenson2 2,147]

Thanks, that does work.

 

Problem is that you have to actually type the complete name of the tag, i.e. it will not autocomplete it for you. So we have to remember each complete tag name and  not make any mistakes.

 

It does auto-complete - use F3.

Type a couple characters and the list of possible tag choices gets dramatically smaller.

[redc 0]

 

Thanks, that does work.

 

Problem is that you have to actually type the complete name of the tag, i.e. it will not autocomplete it for you. So we have to remember each complete tag name and  not make any mistakes.

 

It does auto-complete - use F3.

Type a couple characters and the list of possible tag choices gets dramatically smaller.

 

Ah, what I meant is it does not narrow the choices down as you type.

 

If my prefix is cof-mocha, as I type tag:cof-mo it will show me 0 notes found while still showing the complete flat list of tags on the left. Only when I type the full tag name, tag:cof-mocha, will it show me the notes with that tag.

 

It's especially annoying when we have to filter by several tags. We have to type out each one completely accurate.

[agrinshtein 2]

I see that there is a new Evernote Business 2.0 -  I wonder if they have implemented this feature.

 

I just spent my entire morning trying to implement nested tagging to all of my businesses notes only to realize that there is no nested tagging.  What a massive bummer!  I am trying to get my entire business on boarded with Evernote, however, the personal and business accounts are not equal.

 

I wonder how "The Secret Weapon team" implements it.  They seem to be using it in their company there must be a way that they use it.

 

Anyone have any contacts with them?

[redc 0]

The tags searching functionality seems to be totally different depending on what you're using.

 

I had the regular Evernote and upgraded to Business.

Other people on the team simply downloaded the Business.

Then there's the web version.

All using Windows PCs. All different tag functionality. All terrible tag functionality.

 

Does Evernote have any support at all?

[Metrodon 2,184]

Yes, but this isn't it, this is basically a user forum. If you are using Business and you have issues then I would contact support, that's part of what you are paying for.

[agrinshtein 2]

@Metrodon - I contacted them and they told me tontact the forums!

[EdH 1,670]

@Metrodon - I contacted them and they told me tontact the forums!

 

You contacted support about a specific issue you are having and they told you to contact the forums? I really find that hard to believe. Very hard.

[agrinshtein 2]

I wish I had saved it.  I was quite surprised myself.

 

However, this was yesterday.  The lady told me that she didn't know of a workaround for nested tagging in evernote business and she suggested I go to the forums and ask there as maybe one of the advanced users had a workaround.

 

Needless to say I didn't give her high rankings in the poll which followed the chat.

[EdH 1,670]

I wish I had saved it.  I was quite surprised myself.

 

However, this was yesterday.  The lady told me that she didn't know of a workaround for nested tagging in evernote business and she suggested I go to the forums and ask there as maybe one of the advanced users had a workaround.

 

Needless to say I didn't give her high rankings in the poll which followed the chat.

 

Ok, that is a bit different. The product doesn't support nesting of tags in the business tags unfortunately, so she was probably telling you to go to the forums and see if there were clever workarounds or how others were dealing with it. It wasn't like there was a box you needed to check and she didn't know how to do it. She supported the product as much as it is supportable, which in this instance, it has no support for what you want. She at least gave you a possible alternative in the forums. It just doesn't exist.

Hope you didn't ding her too highly. The correct response for her could have been "Sorry, not supported." She went an extra step if you ask me.

[agrinshtein 2]

ok. Interesting.

 

How do we work around this problem?

 

I am really trying to get my business on Evernote and trying to implement a way where we can move projects forward using a GTD methodology but it seems that it just isn't able to manage it well.

 

Thoughts?

[EdH 1,670]

as far as I know, you don't. It is like working around the problem that you cannot draw bitmaps in Notepad on Windows. There is no workaround. It simply doesn't support it.

 

IMHO, they have a LOT of work to do on business tags, and now that folders are fixed, I hope that is where they are pouring their resources,

 

Just an FYI, nesting didn't exist on 4.x either, so EN5 didn't mess this one up.

[EdH 1,670]

BTW, I use GTD too. I just use it on the personal side and when I am done, I move business items to the business notebooks. It had nothing to do with nesting. It had to do with me not being able to handle two GTD setups, personal and professional. One setup, two where's (home, business.)

 

I will say this too. Tag nesting even on the personal side doesn't send a tingle up my leg. I like being able to group, but I do about 90% of my tag manipulation through searching. I am doing about 80% of what The Secret Weapon Manifesto says to do. The rest I modified to suit my own tastes.

[redc 0]

BTW, I use GTD too. I just use it on the personal side and when I am done, I move business items to the business notebooks. It had nothing to do with nesting. It had to do with me not being able to handle two GTD setups, personal and professional. One setup, two where's (home, business.)

 

I will say this too. Tag nesting even on the personal side doesn't send a tingle up my leg. I like being able to group, but I do about 90% of my tag manipulation through searching. I am doing about 80% of what The Secret Weapon Manifesto says to do. The rest I modified to suit my own tastes.

 

Problem is it doesn't even support search (at least not on the versions I've tried).

 

If I could simply search by tags, type the prefix and select from a dynamic narrowing list of tags. Then do that for another tag. I'd be okay with that.

 

Doesn't evernote have really long videos showing details rather than those lame promo clips on the website? I thought I saw those somewhere.

[redc 0]

I see that there is a new Evernote Business 2.0 -  I wonder if they have implemented this feature.

 

I just spent my entire morning trying to implement nested tagging to all of my businesses notes only to realize that there is no nested tagging.  What a massive bummer!  I am trying to get my entire business on boarded with Evernote, however, the personal and business accounts are not equal.

 

I wonder how "The Secret Weapon team" implements it.  They seem to be using it in their company there must be a way that they use it.

 

Anyone have any contacts with them?

Wouldn't we be updated to Business 2.0 automatically?

 

Is this the Secret Weapon you're referring to? http://www.thesecretweapon.org/

 

I got turned off cause their tagline is "no bs approach" and then you watch the first video and it's full of bs promotional stuff rather than nuts and bolts. They saw only use email + evernote.

 

Is evernote good for action items across a team, i.e. execution? Right now we are only using it for information storage. Using Trello for execution.

[EdH 1,670]

The Secret Weapon site is pretty good. It isn't the end all be all to GTD with Evernote, but it has some really great pointers and practices to get started.

 

And what do some of you mean by cannot search tags. When you type

 

tag:TagName

 

it doesn't find it for you?

[redc 0]

The Secret Weapon site is pretty good. It isn't the end all be all to GTD with Evernote, but it has some really great pointers and practices to get started.

 

And what do some of you mean by cannot search tags. When you type

 

tag:TagName

 

it doesn't find it for you?

 

Right, it doesn't work on my windows 4.6.7.8409 version.

[EdH 1,670]

 

The Secret Weapon site is pretty good. It isn't the end all be all to GTD with Evernote, but it has some really great pointers and practices to get started.

 

And what do some of you mean by cannot search tags. When you type

 

tag:TagName

 

it doesn't find it for you?

 

Right, it doesn't work on my windows 4.6.7.8409 version.

 

 

Then open a ticket. It works for me, so there could be a database corruption issue for you. I am using the same version as my primary too.

[Markroadmtb 0]

Yep, I just lost an afternoon of my life (that I will never get back again) trying to migrate my beautiful nested tags hierarchy from Evernote Personal to Business.

 

Cannot believe the significant differences between Personal and Business were not made clear before I handed over my credit card details.  Extremely disappointed!

 

Come on Evernote, you must be able to do better than this!

 

Initial thoughts are that I will go back to using Premium Personal for my business needs and have a second, free account for my private stuff.  If business associates want to get aboard the Evernote train, I will be suggesting they buy a Personal Premium ticket. At least then we will be able to share the folders in which we have common interest. Any reasons this wouldn't work?

[ZZZ 135]

Yep, I just lost an afternoon of my life (that I will never get back again) trying to migrate my beautiful nested tags hierarchy from Evernote Personal to Business.

 

Cannot believe the significant differences between Personal and Business were not made clear before I handed over my credit card details.  Extremely disappointed!

 

Come on Evernote, you must be able to do better than this!

 

Initial thoughts are that I will go back to using Premium Personal for my business needs and have a second, free account for my private stuff.  If business associates want to get aboard the Evernote train, I will be suggesting they buy a Personal Premium ticket. At least then we will be able to share the folders in which we have common interest. Any reasons this wouldn't work?

 

Not that I know if, in fact I know some people that have set up shared premium accounts for their teams specifically because of the horrible implementation of the business product (no notebook renaming across teams, no nested tags, no shared stacks and so on).  However I am not sure what you mean by "suggest they buy a personal premium".  If it's for a team you'd really just use one premium account and share the login.  Of course that has its own limitations, but at least you actually get a functional EN with nested tags, notebook renaming, and shared stacks.

 

And you are correct, EN should offer a trial for business so people can discover these issues before they pony up money.  It's entirely reasonable for users to assume that they won't be losing functionality with the business product.

[EdH 1,670]

Initial thoughts are that I will go back to using Premium Personal for my business needs and have a second, free account for my private stuff.  If business associates want to get aboard the Evernote train, I will be suggesting they buy a Personal Premium ticket. At least then we will be able to share the folders in which we have common interest. Any reasons this wouldn't work?

What you will miss out on is:

• pooled resources. We have 31 people on our account, and get 62GB a month of company upload quota, plus 2GB each of personal.
• Ability to create tags in other's notebooks. While you can create notes in shared premium notebooks, you have to create a "tag note" with all available tags for that notebook so others can tag in your notebook. Even if you have the "ABCD" tag in your account, if it isn't in that notebook, no one can tag it ABCD until you add a note with that tag first.
• Business library
• Central management - invites, rejections, billing (one bill, not 31 for us on expense reports),
• Central retention of deleted notes for easy restore or purge.

I think those are the biggest issues. If you can live without those, then go for the Premium model. For us, the tagging issue (my 2nd point) was huge. We did the premium model last year before ENB rolled out and it was a pain in the rumpus for us.

 

I absolutely agree with you on many of your points BTW. Tags in EnB are a not great, and EN5 for WIndows has pretty much wrecked it by commingling all personal and business tags into one big blob of unusability.

[Markroadmtb 0]

Thanks Browncoat.  We are not such a big operation that we can't live with those downsides you have listed.  I am back on premium!  Cheers.

[RossDunn 3]

I too am very disappointed the Evernote team deemed the Premium structure had to be turned on its head for the business version. Really? What is the bleed'n point in making any of us learn new systems when they are unnecessary? You have a system that works phenomenally well in Premium mode... just extend it and offer the same for business! 

 

#1 rule - if it ain't broke (in this case it rocks) don't fix it! Now I am feeling royally screwed having moved my files to business and I have to learn another gad damned interface with my limited time - to think I made the switch to make it easier for my staff.

 

PISSED off!

[ZZZ 135]

I had set up a business account about 8 months ago and set up a couple of test accounts with the intention of rolling it out to a fair number of users.  This was my second look at the business product.  After seeing what a disaster it was on several fronts, and just how clueless EN is about business needs, and realizing there was no way I could trust them to have a clue after they tried to merge business and personal notes in Windows v5, I changed directions.  I finally just got around to canceling the account.

 

1. After well over a year Admins still can't rename a notebook, and EN continues to make utterly useless and laughable changes to the business product without addressing HUGE issues like this.

2. Can't share stacks so employees can't see the context of the notebooks - laughable.

3. A completely broken tag system in V5 as reported by Ed for going on what, 3 months + now?

4. Before canceling I started to delete our notebooks.  After deleting a Notebook I go to "manage trash".  Hilariously, nothing is there!  Evidently that only works for deleted notes I guess.  I couldn't care less since I'm canceling but there's one more mission critical feature for business that doesn't work.  I mean, why would an admin expect to be able to go to trash to find a notebook that was deleted?!

5. Users can't be changed.  Let's suppose you have 20 users and need to delete 5 of them and add 5 in place.  Guess what?  The 5 you delete will run through the end of the month, and you're going to get charged for the 5 new users!  And they're going to do this to you every time you need to change a user.  Again, this is BIZ101, business routinely change users, and every piece of software I've ever used allows business to do that - except Evernote.

 

I'm sure there is a ton more I'm missing.

 

The most hilarious thing, and the real problem, is when you try to point out these huge issues, you get someone coming on the forum and explaining to you how not being able to rename a business notebook is a "feature", how that lets users give notebooks meaningful names, and how it could confuse employees is a notebooks name changed.  So it's an absolute waste of time reporting these issues because they are not being fixed in a timely manner and the people involved don't have clue about businesses.  Alternatively everyone is impotent and can't ever say anything (another case of having learned the wrong lesson), so no one will ever give you a clue if something is going to be fixed.  In the mean time i participate on other forums where companies interact with users and say stuff like "oh wow, you can't rename a notebook, that's huge, we'll fix that", so you at least have some clue they recognize the issue and will be fixing it.

 

This product is not ready for businesses in any way shape or form.  As a product for individuals it works very well.

[dspapps 6]

I feel your pain.  I started with a plan to roll out to 25-50 users.

 

Based on the reputation of Evernote I jumped in.  First alarm bell was no free trial....  I ignored that and paid up.

 

Then I realised the software was bad.  The number of bug fix releases is past daft.

 

Stuff like QA'd engineering and design has gone out the door.

 

Evernote are on the IPO train and it's not stopping anytime soon.  The level of denial is wonky.

 

There will be some professionals in the company that realise they have poisoned the product.

 

The CEO even had to apologise:    http://gigaom.com/2014/01/06/evernote-ceo-to-users-well-do-better/

 

All your points I agree with.

 

We gave up on Evernote as a result.