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Bradley Chambers

mac (Archived) View missing in 5.1.1

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Yeah. I, too, miss the old list view. Much more useful in my workflow. Plus, why the view selector menu is placed in such a way as to move and relocate inside each view is confusing. The view menu should be static.

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I really preferred the horizontal view, alot of my notes are full pages and I would like to see them full width.  I would prefer bringing back horizontal view over reminders. 

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Adding to the resounding chorus:  Please bring back horizontal view.  The heart and soul, or killer app, if you will, of Evernote is (was) easy, intuitive organization.  With the horizontal view, I got that.  With the vertical view, I don't.

 

Yes, I can sort by date or notebook or whatever in vertical view, but this requires extra clicks that get in the way of my workflow and distract my train of thought.  The nice, clean, compact screen of Evernote was another great feature, but now I have to stretch it out across my whole monitor to fit in the sidebar, vertical view, and enough note space to be useful.  Horizontal view is also much more visually appealing and intuitive; it showed notebook hierarchies and relationships.

 

Re: Reminders, I don't see why they couldn't be integrated into horizontal view.  Maybe put them into the toolbar or sidebar.  Also, IMHO Reminders aren't of much use without the ability to specify what it is they're reminding me of.  All I can see how to do is associate a Reminder with a Notebook, but no way to put add any additional information.

 

I realize consumers tend to be quick with wrath and slow with praise, so I'll also (ever)note that this is in general a great product.  Please restore it to its former glory!

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Please, Please, Please bring back the horizontal list view. I need a lot of space when I am writing long notes. With the horizontal list I can restrict the list to just a few items and have a BIG space for writing.

 

I also only visit this forum when I am having a problem and so I missed the request for input on the horizontal list. I won't be using reminders in Evernote - I have plenty of other options for reminders. But Evernote is my ONLY option for note taking.

 

I'm going back to version 5.0.7.

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I just wanted to add my voice to those who've already requested the return of horizontal list view.

 

I haven't previously had to use evernote in fullscreen mode and now even in full screen mode it some of the information in the list is being truncated and I only have two columns visible.  And it makes me feel all cramped when I'm writing the note in the space that's left, crushed up against the side of the screen.

 

Personally I think that my unwillingness to resize windows is in part due to how difficult it is to resize windows on the mac compared to Windows.  I rarely maximise app windows on my mac.

 

Great product though.  Keep up the good work. 

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Good grief, this is a long thread...

 

I don't have much new to add, but still want to make my thoughts known.  I liked the horizontal view and am sad/frustrated that it's gone.  It's more of a screen real estate thing for me.  I'm on a 13" MacBook Pro, and like to have as much screen space as possible for composing/viewing notes.  While it's not a horrible compromise to have to reduce the new vertical view to its smallest possible width, and I'll take it for a spin and see how I like it, I'd still like to have those horizontal inches back for note space instead of list space.

 

On a related note, I was just reading an EN blog post containing notebook usage tips, and the very first sentence opens with, "We don’t tell our users how to organize their notes in Evernote as everyone works differently."  I find it a little strange that letting users choose how to organize their notes is apparently a high priority, but when it comes to how the UI is laid out, we're not given that level of freedom.  Why not let users determine where all of the UI pieces fall?  Let me drag the note pane to the far left.  Let me drag the list from side to top (or bottom).  Let me make the sidebar a bottom bar.  How difficult would that be?  Just give me a mode that lets me drag and drop the pieces where I want them, and then lock them into place to prevent accidental changes.  I use other software that has that ability, and really appreciate the flexibility.  I'm sure that such an approach would make some UX people cringe, but there's a part of me that feels very strongly that some elements of interface layout really are best left to the user, not the developer, especially when a tool has so many possible views and panels and such.  Who knows how any user works the most efficiently with a tool better than the user?

 

What I loved about Evernote when I first found it was its openness and flexibility.  Over time, though, it feels like some of that flexibility has been removed as new features have been added.  As of this writing, I don't feel that I'll ever use the reminders feature, but the addition of that feature has made the UI layout less flexible.  Sure, my data is still my data, but it feels less and less like my tool is my tool.

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Plus, why the view selector menu is placed in such a way as to move and relocate inside each view is confusing. The view menu should be static.

 

I noticed that too, that also needs to be fixed.

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I love the comparative simplicity of the same issue on the Windows side. @MadKnickers writes in distraught about the vertical view and how to get the horizontal back and @mrossk replies nonchalantly "Ctrl-Shift-F5". And that's all there was to it.

(http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/29528-help-my-panel-layout-has-changed-how/)

Please let the option of switching on the Mac be as simple!

 

I remember when that happened on Windows. That's why when my Mac view changed to vertical the first thing I went looking for was how to toggle between the two.  

 

I don't use the Windows client anymore, but last time I checked that 'toggle' was still a hidden (not user discoverable) keystroke. That still feels odd that you can't get to it from the UI (unless I missed it). In fact I just checked the current keyboard shortcuts for Windows and it is NOT listed there.

http://evernote.com/contact/support/kb/#/article/23168552

 

Maybe they are trying to 'ween' us off the horizontal view? Does anyone know if the Windows client defaults to Horizontal or Vertical on a new install? I'm just curious. 

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It's not so much about the vertical view, but about losing the horizontal one in the process. I also think some people probably don't realize that it is quite customizable (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106).

 

It does not matter how customisable it is. Three words: Screen real estate. Even on my 1920*1080 screen, I now have to choose which information I want truncated. I can customise from here to Christmas without getting around that problem (that is, if I want to be able to read my notes too). There is no way to see all titles and all tags on the same time, for instance. Also, I now have no way of utilising the full width of the app to view my notes without opening a standalone window.

Edited by pgdahl

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I'm probably stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the main issue between user's who prefer vertical and that prefer horizontal is in how much screen real-estate those users devote to Evernote. In all the example screen shots I found of vertical list view - including the infamous poling post from Jackolicious - the screen shots always show Evernote filling up an entire large wide monitor:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s3/sh/1facc864-a1b9-4943-9336-a38ebbc0a34d/69057856bd9d9f872abda21b97de868a

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4?noteKey=fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4&noteGuid=02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2

 

User arguments for one view or the other also seem to reflect a user's preference for whether they 'full screen' the app or not:

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/20983-optimal-space-usage-in-list-view/?p=106423

 

If I ran Evernote at the full width of my monitor I would probably also conclude that the horizontal view wastes space. But I don't, I split my screen between Evernote and other apps like my code editor. I reference my notes while working.

 

At any rate, I'm not arguing for one or the other. I'm just pointing out that a particular user's way of using Evernote and sizing Evernote on their screen dictates which layout is more effective for them. The only logical conclusion (though probably not the favorite of the developers) is to support both. 

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I'm probably stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the main issue between user's who prefer vertical and that prefer horizontal is in how much screen real-estate those users devote to Evernote. In all the example screen shots I found of vertical list view - including the infamous poling post from Jackolicious - the screen shots always show Evernote filling up an entire large wide monitor:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s3/sh/1facc864-a1b9-4943-9336-a38ebbc0a34d/69057856bd9d9f872abda21b97de868a

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4?noteKey=fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4&noteGuid=02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2

 

User arguments for one view or the other also seem to reflect a user's preference for whether they 'full screen' the app or not:

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/20983-optimal-space-usage-in-list-view/?p=106423

 

If I ran Evernote at the full width of my monitor I would probably also conclude that the horizontal view wastes space. But I don't, I split my screen between Evernote and other apps like my code editor. I reference my notes while working.

 

At any rate, I'm not arguing for one or the other. I'm just pointing out that a particular user's way of using Evernote and sizing Evernote on their screen dictates which layout is more effective for them. The only logical conclusion (though probably not the favorite of the developers) is to support both. 

Here is an 11" MBA view.

http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=106

I often use the app on half my screen, but I have the Sidebar closed, and I don't need much screen real estate to write (I sometimes even pair up a bluetooth keyboard to my iPhone when I am writing). As you said, it depends on your use case / workflow.

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I'm probably stating the obvious, but it seems to me that the main issue between user's who prefer vertical and that prefer horizontal is in how much screen real-estate those users devote to Evernote. In all the example screen shots I found of vertical list view - including the infamous poling post from Jackolicious - the screen shots always show Evernote filling up an entire large wide monitor:

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s3/sh/1facc864-a1b9-4943-9336-a38ebbc0a34d/69057856bd9d9f872abda21b97de868a

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s2/sh/02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2/fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4?noteKey=fc8843b5aab0586e9164fee42533ada4¬eGuid=02fe1465-6575-4d38-a7f9-a1cf8dbb40a2

 

User arguments for one view or the other also seem to reflect a user's preference for whether they 'full screen' the app or not:

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/20983-optimal-space-usage-in-list-view/?p=106423

 

If I ran Evernote at the full width of my monitor I would probably also conclude that the horizontal view wastes space. But I don't, I split my screen between Evernote and other apps like my code editor. I reference my notes while working.

 

At any rate, I'm not arguing for one or the other. I'm just pointing out that a particular user's way of using Evernote and sizing Evernote on their screen dictates which layout is more effective for them. The only logical conclusion (though probably not the favorite of the developers) is to support both.

 

As I posted above, even when using Evernote in full screen on a fairly large monitor, the vertical list view is awkward for me. I have not updated my 13" Macbook and I am probably not going to.

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"Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! As GM said, we did post awhile ago asking about any Horizontal List View fans and were expecting a backlash when we made the decision to remove Horizontal List View as a view option. 


If you guys haven't heard yet, this morning we released a major new feature (#1 user request) of Reminders (http://blog.evernote...-ios-and-web-2/) and in doing so, had to make a difficult UI/design choice of taking Horizontal List View out in designing the appearance and function of Reminders.


We had many users requesting a Vertical List View and it fit in well with our overall new Reminders UI.


Would you guys have preferred to keep Horizontal List View over Reminders or vice versa? If so, why or why not?" 


 


The loss of real estate for those of us using Evernote for *gasp* NOTES (and not reminders and other bells and whistles) is huge. I've only been stuck in this mess for a day since I upgraded and I'm already considering dropping Evernote if horizontal view doesn't come back. It's a deal breaker for me: I can't write an entire sentence in a single line anymore and God forbid I need to see Date Created AND  Date Modified at the same time. 


 


I second the opinion that Reminders, while I'm sure it was much requested, should in no way interfere with Evernote's core product offering of note taking. That's Business 101 or Pete's sake. Use one of the 1000 other programs out there for your reminders!


 


I also second the comment that making major UI decisions based on a poll posted on a user forum (where most users only go when they have a problem), strikes me as naive. As someone who has worked on major e-comm sites for more than a dozen years, this is not how you make significant UI changes. And, btw, it's not an "upgrade" if you swap in one completely unrelated feature for a long-used and functioning core one. 


 


Seriously annoyed...


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Maybe they are trying to 'ween' us off the horizontal view? Does anyone know if the Windows client defaults to Horizontal or Vertical on a new install? I'm just curious.

 

Just did a little test and installed Evernote for Windows 4.6.6 via CrossOver (not recommendable, but sufficient for this test). It opens in snippet view, but the default list view is horizontal view.

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After using the vertical list view today while searching, it doesn't work well at all. I thought I might get used to it, just as I did with the search button being moved in the Evernote webclipper. However, it was really awful.

 

With the vertical view, it was much harder to see at a glance just which of those 12 notes was the one I needed.

 

Please bring back horizontal view! I'd much rather have the reminder button only available in vertical view than never have the horizontal view again.

 

What's the point of taking notes if you can't search or read them easily?

 

---Mary

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Another vote (plea) for horizontal view. I've used Evernote since 2008 and have been a premium user since it was available. Vertical list view is a ridiculous waste of screen space on my laptop. For all other reasons articulated in this thread, please bring it back.

 

I also have downgraded to 5.0.7 and will hold off on future upgrades until horizontal list view returns.

 

-Jeff

 

+1

 

Great timing, I also just received the monthly receipt for my Premium Group.  The EN way - pay more, get less.

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Can someone point me in the direction of how to downgrade back to 5.0.7 so I can get my horizontal view back???

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Maybe they are trying to 'ween' us off the horizontal view? Does anyone know if the Windows client defaults to Horizontal or Vertical on a new install? I'm just curious.

 

Just did a little test and installed Evernote for Windows 4.6.6 via CrossOver (not recommendable, but sufficient for this test). It opens in snippet view, but the default list view is horizontal view.

 

Thanks for taking the time to run that test, I was curious. I thought I remembered they defaulted to vertical for a while, but I could be wrong. I wonder if any view changes like this one are planned in the Windows version when they add reminders.

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I am so incredibly disappointed in the loss of the horizontal view I've reverted to 5.0.7. Thankfully, it seems doing so has not caused me to lose the additions I made since the "upgrade."

 

I fully agree with these posts above:  

 

This just killed usability for me. What is the point of having options to turn on all those columns if I can't fit them on the screen???

For years I've been using the horizontal view. I show created date, updated date, title, notebook, and tags. 

And, 

Yes, please give back the option for the horizontal list. I have billions of programs for reminders, but only ONE I use for my notes. I NEED the horizontal list. 

And, 

By the way, I fail to see how reminders have anything to do with the lists orientation. Care to elaborate on that?

 

Surely there are ways to preserve the horizontal view and simultaneously implement reminders. 

 

I never monitor these forums or make posts, but I have been so very frustrated with this major change in how my many, many hours of work in Evernote are now displayed I felt I had to voice my concern. Please return the horizontal view. Evernote should not, under any circumstances, unilaterally remove such an important UI feature. It's unconscionable, and highly discouraging. The other Evernote views are, for me, quite useless.  My thoughts about going Pro at some point took a giant leap backwards because of this experience. 

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Can someone point me in the direction of how to downgrade back to 5.0.7 so I can get my horizontal view back???

 

I found 5.0. here and installed it. Seems to have worked fine to go from 5.1x back to 5.0.7. But proceed at your own risk. 

 

mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

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Please, Please, Please bring back the horizontal list view. I need a lot of space when I am writing long notes. With the horizontal list I can restrict the list to just a few items and have a BIG space for writing.

 

I also only visit this forum when I am having a problem and so I missed the request for input on the horizontal list. I won't be using reminders in Evernote - I have plenty of other options for reminders. But Evernote is my ONLY option for note taking.

 

I'm going back to version 5.0.7.

+1

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Can someone point me in the direction of how to downgrade back to 5.0.7 so I can get my horizontal view back???

 

I found 5.0. here and installed it. Seems to have worked fine to go from 5.1x back to 5.0.7. But proceed at your own risk. 

 

mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

Downgrade working fine for me.

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Have been trying to make the vertical list mode work for me.

I absolutely hate it.

I was seriously thinking of looking for a new notes app.

Thank you whoever first posted re. upgrading to an earlier version, I will be trying that shortly.

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Well I am a paid premium customer and I complained and complained when v5 came out because it lost the customisable toolbar and wasted space with a sidebar which included options which were of no interest... anyway I stayed with 3.3.0 for MAC and still have all my features... from time to time I check the status of 5.x hoping its UI would improve as I would love to have the improved search it offers only to discover that they have now taken away the single best way of displaying data [if you have lots - in my case 7.5K notes] for reminders? reminders? well OK I guess this is Evernote business services driving things but it is hard not to think that Evernote are in processing of ditching their longterm users 

 

so for version 5 users please bring back horizontal view and for ver 3 holdouts like me please allow some configuration in future versions so we can use EN as we wish rather than how you imagine your business users will want to use it... but it isn't going to happen

 

I know EN is a very big product with a huge user base and also that it is their [the EN team] product but hubris will do for everyone eventually no matter how big and established - and please if you are a EN employer or 'evangelist' don't tell me I can customise v5 to my liking, I tried, I can't

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Are EN software designers working on this Horizontal/Vertical view issue??

 

Vertical view doesn't work for me and for lots of EN users.  :(

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Count me as a vote in favor of bringing horizontal view back. The vertical view customized to show the list data I require, interestingly, takes up too much horizontal space. If there was a way I could use the new vertical view and have an option to hide the preview pane, that would help. But even better if I could have the preview pane underneath the list, that would be the best. Oh, wait, that would be the previous horizontal view. Yeah, do that. Thanks!

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We try our best to accomodate all of our users and their needs, and we do read and listen to user feedback that is posted on the forums  :) 

 

What exactly about Horizontal List View do you find the most useful that can't be fulfilled in Vertical List View? I am curious to hear people's workflows, aside from johnmarshall4 of using created date, updated date, title, notebook and tags.

 

 

1. Count me in with all the people who were surprised that we have to read the Evernote blog to prevent you from doing something detrimental to how we use it. Reminders? I use my calendar for reminders.

 

2. I wish I had time to read all the comments in this thread. Many are interesting, but I really gotta keep working.

 

3. Here's my workflow negatively impacted by the UI change (I'm a web app developer):

  • I title my notes with project names (e.g. WP-77 - WP-77 - Add School Tab to Listing Detail)
  • Frequently, I have several notes for different aspects of the same project. I dislike having to scroll through a MASSIVELY long note to find a piece of code I entered as an example. (Often there's nothing unique enough about something I'm looking for, and search won't help me.)
  • I append project names with content of the note.
    • WP-77 - Add School Tab to Listing Detail     Main
    • WP-77 - Add School Tab to Listing Detail     Great Schools info
    • WP-77 - Add School Tab to Listing Detail     Code for mockups
    • etc.
  • I almost NEVER full-screen the window of ANY program. Work isn't that simple for me. I currently have 28 programs open. I often have windows of two or three programs visible at the same time.
  • In the Vertical List View, with the window size I prefer to use, my titles are useless. All I see are truncated titles, like these:
    • April 24, 2013 3:01 PM  WP-77 - Add School Tab t...
    • April 18, 2013 4:20 PM  WP-77 - Add School Tab t...
    • May 17, 2013 9:35 PM  WP-77 - Add School Tab t...
    • etc.

 

Please let us have the horizontal view back.

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Here is how to downgrade (upgrade) to a previous version:

1. Backup your database

2. Go here: http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

3. Download version 5.0.7 (latest version with horizontal view)

4. Profit.

 

To the EN team: please let me know when the horizontal view returns.  I will gladly upgrade then.

 

The reason I prefer the horizontal view is that I frequently work on a small laptop screen with multiple windows open.  My limited screen real estate makes this view much more useful and intuitive.  

 

I downloaded and installed the "older" version (5.0.7) as you suggested. Works great.

 

Even when someone's climb to the top of the pack is based on merit, they're still a target. Appreciate all the EN folks have done to give us a good product. I'll keep using this version until they're able to sort things out.

 

Downgrading failed!

 

I followed the steps mentioned by JesseE and I tried downgrading to version 5.07 & 5.06, but EN was not working.

 

Any Suggestions?

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Here is how to downgrade (upgrade) to a previous version:

1. Backup your database

2. Go here: http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

3. Download version 5.0.7 (latest version with horizontal view)

4. Profit.

 

To the EN team: please let me know when the horizontal view returns.  I will gladly upgrade then.

 

The reason I prefer the horizontal view is that I frequently work on a small laptop screen with multiple windows open.  My limited screen real estate makes this view much more useful and intuitive.  

 

I downloaded and installed the "older" version (5.0.7) as you suggested. Works great.

 

Even when someone's climb to the top of the pack is based on merit, they're still a target. Appreciate all the EN folks have done to give us a good product. I'll keep using this version until they're able to sort things out.

 

Downgrading failed!

 

I followed the steps mentioned by JesseE and I tried downgrading to version 5.07 & 5.06, but EN was not working.

 

Any Suggestions?

Worked fine for me.  But since you had problems, the following should be a total reset:

 

1.  Quit EN and drag the application to the Trash.

2.  Remove the Evernote folder at <your home folder>/Library/Application Support (to access your Library folder you'll need to hold down the Option key while selecting "Go" in the Finder menu.

3.  Empty the trash

4.  Install EN 5.07

5.  Start EN, enter your user info if requested.  All notes should download from the EN server.  Depending on how many notes you have and the speed of your connection this could take awhile.

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Version - 5.1.3 (401263)

 

The hide Note List command is missing! ....

This is causing a huge loss of screen space.

 

How do I revert back on the App Store?

 

-BG

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Here is how to downgrade (upgrade) to a previous version:

1. Backup your database

2. Go here: http://mac.filehorse.com/download-evernote/2755/old-versions/

3. Download version 5.0.7 (latest version with horizontal view)

4. Profit.

 

To the EN team: please let me know when the horizontal view returns.  I will gladly upgrade then.

 

The reason I prefer the horizontal view is that I frequently work on a small laptop screen with multiple windows open.  My limited screen real estate makes this view much more useful and intuitive.  

 

I downloaded and installed the "older" version (5.0.7) as you suggested. Works great.

 

Even when someone's climb to the top of the pack is based on merit, they're still a target. Appreciate all the EN folks have done to give us a good product. I'll keep using this version until they're able to sort things out.

 

Downgrading failed!

 

I followed the steps mentioned by JesseE and I tried downgrading to version 5.07 & 5.06, but EN was not working.

 

Any Suggestions?

Worked fine for me.  But since you had problems, the following should be a total reset:

 

1.  Quit EN and drag the application to the Trash.

2.  Remove the Evernote folder at <your home folder>/Library/Application Support (to access your Library folder you'll need to hold down the Option key while selecting "Go" in the Finder menu.

3.  Empty the trash

4.  Install EN 5.07

5.  Start EN, enter your user info if requested.  All notes should download from the EN server.  Depending on how many notes you have and the speed of your connection this could take awhile.

 

Working fine now.

 

I used AppCleaner to uninstall EN related files on my home folder http://www.freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/

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1) Bring back horizontal view

2) Option to HIDE/SHOW vertical view note list

 

 

 

update:

I canceled renewal of Premium, until horizontal view problem is fixed. 

I reviewed EN on Apple App Store with a 1-star. 

 

Putting my money and ratings  inline with my opinions. Please consider doing the same.

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Adding my voice to the chorus.

 

This update has killed the usability of evernote for me on my laptop screen. It really messes up my workflow.

 

For an application that can be used in so many unique and custom ways, it's really necessary to have a flexible UI.

 

At the very least, please let us HIDE THE NOTE PREVIEW so we can have a long list view of our notes.

 

I've been a premium member for quite a while and I might have to find another solution.

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Glad I saw this before upgrading although it sounds more like a down grade.

 

Having to monitor a user forum to make sure one votes to keep the vendor from removing key features is inefficient and unproductive of the first order. Evernote is supposed to make us more productive, not less.

 

This is second feature that's been removed recently, negatively impacting my productivity and previous affection for Evernote - the other being the ability to Hide Unassigned Tags in the side bar.

 

Add me to the lists of users who

- dearly love horizontal lists,

- don't need reminders very much or at all

- are considering canceling premium membership

- are unhappy and will consider switching to an alternative

- find the concept of having to monitor a forum to prevent feature destruction to be unproductive, maddening and inane

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Glad I saw this before upgrading although it sounds more like a down grade.

Having to monitor a user forum to make sure one votes to keep the vendor from removing key features is inefficient and unproductive of the first order. Evernote is supposed to make us more productive, not less.

This is second feature that's been removed recently, negatively impacting my productivity and previous affection for Evernote - the other being the ability to Hide Unassigned Tags in the side bar.

Add me to the lists of users who

- dearly love horizontal lists,

- don't need reminders very much or at all

- are considering canceling premium membership

- are unhappy and will consider switching to an alternative

- find the concept of having to monitor a forum to prevent feature destruction to be unproductive, maddening and inane

Hi. You don't have to monitor the user forums if you don't want to. However, the Evernote app developers are not mind readers, and they might make decisions that will adversely affect your workflow, so if the app (or a particular set of features) matters to you, I recommend speaking up about it. It's only a recommendation by me (not the Evernote staff), and you are free to ignore it.

In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

I watch the forum of another company that is critical for my workflow, and I have posted scathingly insightful (in my humble opinion!) reviews of their hobbled and ultimately infuriating service, but a year later, nothing more than a recommendation to re-upload about 100 GB of data again. Ultimately, the recommendation would be an ill-advised wild goose chase, because buried in the service description is a note that they have effectively hobbled the service, so no amount of uploading will fix that. It's too bad, but I still monitor the thread and the forum on occasion. It takes about 10 minutes of my year -- it's pretty dead there nowadays with new users who pop in when they stumble across the gaping (but hidden) hole in the feature, and those of us who have complained in the past and still have the thread set to alert us by email. Still, I think it's worth it for the opportunity to lodge my opinion/criticism. Their lack of knowledge about their own service and lack of attempts to communicate with users demonstrate (to my eyes, at least) their total disinterest in our opinions. Frankly, I'm not even sure why the forums are there.

Evernote (a quasi competitor to this particular company) is markedly better. Just look through this thread and you'll find the developers right here talking to you. At least the developers care enough to communicate and discuss features. If you choose not to take advantage of it, that is certainly your right, and I get it, but you'll miss an opportunity to influence the app in a way that might preserve or improve your workflow.

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In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

Most people are here because we are consumers of a tool, not fanboys of app celebrities.  We don't have time to constantly monitor and post on 50 program forums.  You are clearly quite devoted to Evernote, and quite an expert.  For the vast majority of Evernote users, however, we just want a useful tool, and we will be quick to find replacements if our tool is broken.  Don't blame the customer.

 

Incidentally, Microsoft just pulled a similar move in forcing an unwanted UI change on consumers, and they have since backtracked.  Lesson here?

 

Evernote developers: I appreciate all that you do and that you are only trying to make as good a product as possible.  You have overwhelmingly succeeded, but clearly you have made a mistake here.  Which is fine, we all make mistakes, the key is to learn from them.  Could we please get some feedback though on whether/when you plan to fix it?

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Glad I saw this before upgrading although it sounds more like a down grade.

Having to monitor a user forum to make sure one votes to keep the vendor from removing key features is inefficient and unproductive of the first order. Evernote is supposed to make us more productive, not less.

This is second feature that's been removed recently, negatively impacting my productivity and previous affection for Evernote - the other being the ability to Hide Unassigned Tags in the side bar.

Add me to the lists of users who

- dearly love horizontal lists,

- don't need reminders very much or at all

- are considering canceling premium membership

- are unhappy and will consider switching to an alternative

- find the concept of having to monitor a forum to prevent feature destruction to be unproductive, maddening and inane

Hi. You don't have to monitor the user forums if you don't want to. However, the Evernote app developers are not mind readers, and they might make decisions that will adversely affect your workflow, so if the app (or a particular set of features) matters to you, I recommend speaking up about it. It's only a recommendation by me (not the Evernote staff), and you are free to ignore it.

In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

I watch the forum of another company that is critical for my workflow, and I have posted scathingly insightful (in my humble opinion!) reviews of their hobbled and ultimately infuriating service, but a year later, nothing more than a recommendation to re-upload about 100 GB of data again. Ultimately, the recommendation would be an ill-advised wild goose chase, because buried in the service description is a note that they have effectively hobbled the service, so no amount of uploading will fix that. It's too bad, but I still monitor the thread and the forum on occasion. It takes about 10 minutes of my year -- it's pretty dead there nowadays with new users who pop in when they stumble across the gaping (but hidden) hole in the feature, and those of us who have complained in the past and still have the thread set to alert us by email. Still, I think it's worth it for the opportunity to lodge my opinion/criticism. Their lack of knowledge about their own service and lack of attempts to communicate with users demonstrate (to my eyes, at least) their total disinterest in our opinions. Frankly, I'm not even sure why the forums are there.

Evernote (a quasi competitor to this particular company) is markedly better. Just look through this thread and you'll find the developers right here talking to you. At least the developers care enough to communicate and discuss features. If you choose not to take advantage of it, that is certainly your right, and I get it, but you'll miss an opportunity to influence the app in a way that might preserve or improve your workflow.

so why didn't you tell them in advance that you wouldn't want to be put in the situation where you would need upload all that data again? I've seen you make this same argument a number of times now, and it makes no sense. The guy is giving a valuable contribution, and just because you don't agree with it, and expect us all to be mindreaders doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to voice it. Being a forum contributor doesn't earn you special rights to have your view listened to by the vendor any more than not contributing to a forum means the vendor can yoink  functionality straight out of your hands just because you didn't list all the features you like. It's just a stupid argument. With some products there aren't even forums that the vendor participates in, let alone pays attention to!! Some products are vast too... sorry i haven't got time for this, i'm just off to the apple forums to list all the features of OSX and say which ones I need and which ones I don't - I have to do this every week just in case. Better safe than sorry. 

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Why should I have to speak up and complain that you want to remove a feature to stop the process?  I pay for a feature that I would assume you would not in your right mind remove.  I don't need reminders.  I use "The Hit List" for that.  I pay good money to them and am pleased to inform you they don't remove features.  They have a clue about customer satisfaction.  Do what you will with reminders.  It means nothing to me.  Bring back horizontal list view!!!

 

Also, I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Evernote team began as an online document imaging company who essentially fell in a mud-puddle and came out with a gold watch.  So, aren't all of us note-takers, and anyone not using the product for that original intent, using the product in a non-standard way?  Just saying.

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it's basically like finding that the new Ford car you just bought had no steering wheel and instead has a joystick. When you ask the salesman what happened, the following interaction occurs

 

SALESMAN - "oh yea, we had to remove the steering wheel to make way for the new multimedia screen - it's really cool!"

YOU - "Riiiight... but I'm used to driving cars with steering wheels - i wanted, and paid for a steering wheel"

SALESMAN - "Everyone wants the new multimedia system, and there was only this way to fit it in!"

YOU - "Well I don't want it... I'm not even going to use it - and anyway, isn't the way you drive the car more important than watching films when you're meant to be driving?"

SALESMAN - "No of course not! This is progress!"

YOU - "Erm.... it isn't.... Who's idea was this?"

SALESMAN - "Sir, we had a poster up for a week in the corner of the showroom behind the large pot-plant, to tell people about the steering wheel removal - but no-one complained"

YOU - "Well I certainly would have complained had I seen it, but I don't tend to hang around here... well I want my old car back now please unless you give me a steering wheel"

OTHER CUSTOMERS - "YEA US TOO!"

RANDOM GUY - MIGHT BE THE CLEANER - "If you guys had just hung around the showroom every day, and asked the salespeople constantly, read all the sales brochures regularly for changes, written to ford every week.... maybe the steering wheel would never have been removed"

YOU AND THE OTHER CUSTOMERS IN DISBELIEF ".......    but surely you can't be.... that's ridiculous.... i mean, i don't even know where to start........ yea we've all kind of got lives to lead sorry"

SALESMAN - "Bye Bye!"

RANDOM GUY - "I love Fords"

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In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

Most people are here because we are consumers of a tool, not fanboys of app celebrities.  We don't have time to constantly monitor and post on 50 program forums.  You are clearly quite devoted to Evernote, and quite an expert.  For the vast majority of Evernote users, however, we just want a useful tool, and we will be quick to find replacements if our tool is broken.  Don't blame the customer.

 

Incidentally, Microsoft just pulled a similar move in forcing an unwanted UI change on consumers, and they have since backtracked.  Lesson here?

 

Evernote developers: I appreciate all that you do and that you are only trying to make as good a product as possible.  You have overwhelmingly succeeded, but clearly you have made a mistake here.  Which is fine, we all make mistakes, the key is to learn from them.  Could we please get some feedback though on whether/when you plan to fix it?

 

I don't think of myself as an Evernote fanboy. If anything, I'm actually a notetaking enthusiast, and I try to support developers who make great apps for that purpose. Testing betas, offering feedback, and encouraging them to do this or that seems like a small price to pay (a few minutes a year) to help out, and maybe even have the app fit better into my workflow. I try to help out Evernote third party developers as well with testing and so forth.

 

Obviously, Evernote is important in my workflow. However, there are many times when I turn to apps like nvALT (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=51) or VoodooPad (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=62) on the Mac as well. They serve very different purposes, and as much as I love Evernote, it simply cannot do some things like translate markdown into web pages or integrate with Scrivener (a word processing app). Sometimes developers incorporate my suggestions, sometimes they don't, and sometimes they even do the opposite of what I'd like to see. That's fine. I'm glad to say that they listen, and that is enough for me. In the case of Evernote, I don't have any more influence than any other user. 

 

I am not blaming the customer. I am suggesting a different way to interact with developers. It's up to you. My point from the beginning of this thread has been that the developers are out there, they want to hear what you think, and I encourage everyone to let them know. Not every company is like that, and when you find one, I think it is worth taking the time to provide your input. Keep the feedback coming in this thread, but please consider dropping by the forums again in the future to comment on some other things you'd like to see.

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In this case, in a rare move (that I suspect might not be repeated again) they floated an idea long before they had decided to implement it in a beta, and they solicited feedback. It wasn't a poll, but it was an opportunity. They listen, so it is worth it taking advantage of it.

Most people are here because we are consumers of a tool, not fanboys of app celebrities.  We don't have time to constantly monitor and post on 50 program forums.  You are clearly quite devoted to Evernote, and quite an expert.  For the vast majority of Evernote users, however, we just want a useful tool, and we will be quick to find replacements if our tool is broken.  Don't blame the customer.

 

Incidentally, Microsoft just pulled a similar move in forcing an unwanted UI change on consumers, and they have since backtracked.  Lesson here?

 

Evernote developers: I appreciate all that you do and that you are only trying to make as good a product as possible.  You have overwhelmingly succeeded, but clearly you have made a mistake here.  Which is fine, we all make mistakes, the key is to learn from them.  Could we please get some feedback though on whether/when you plan to fix it?

 

+1

 

I use at least 15 apps regularly.  The EN model which assumes I will visit the user forum for every app every couple of days to see if the developer is going to destroy the UI is nonsensical.  If you want my opinion on something, you have my email address.  Remember?  You send me invoices for my Premium Group with that email address every month.

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It's fantastic that you add new views, but *removing* something that has been available for years and is part of people's daily workflow makes no sense. 

 

Stop the pathetic excuses and solve the problem: bring the horizontal list view back. 

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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE bring back horizontal list view. For my primary use of Evernote (GTD, based on "The Secret Weapon" system), the new vertical only list view is MUCH less useful.

 

I am not advocating ditching the vertical view-- I understand it may work better for others. One of the great strengths/beauties of EN is that it can be used in so many completely different kinds of ways. Especially in a program like this, users should be able to choose options and customize to suit their way of working. "One size fits all" is bad UI design.

 

Re the issue above of "why didn't you speak up earlier when we posted about verical vs horizontal list view"-- (1) I suspect there are lots of users who really depend on EN but don't spend time hanging out on these forums. I look at the forums when I have something specific I need, not otherwise. So, posting on a forum only reaches a subset of users-- it's not a representative poll. (2) From what I've found looking back, nobody ever said "we're considering a non-optional switch from horizontal-only to vertical-only view; how would this affect you?"

 

So-- please give users the option of choosing between the layouts for list view.

Duh...!  Well said... Why would EN even think of taking away a view we've always had anyways?  Bad move EN. Give us back our SIMPLE horizontal view option. Give us options, dont take away our options.

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Please return the horizontal list view. It is ill-considered to remove functionality without at least an actual survey and warnings.

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Like everyone else, I need the horizontal list view. It should simply be one of the options. The change drives me crazy - now I can't even read the full note title in the list view. This seriously reduces the usability of Evernote on my Mac.

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Here are two things we are missing and it has been rampant in this thread...

  1. When was the last time a developer was allowed to make a decision of this magnitude?  These are the guys in the engine room shoveling coal.  Did they cause the Titanic to hit that iceberg?  No.  It was the idiot who worked for the company.  See, developers would actually listen to people.  EN the corporation had a new field to plow and decided they needed to make way.  I applaud the developers and all they do.  Find the moron who was after the new revenue stream and you've found the bad guy.
  2. Who in God's name ever made such a major change in usability with an unassuming poll?  EN phones home to do its thing.  It's cloud-based.  The folks at EN know exactly what their user-base is.  How many votes were actually cast, that EN then chose to use as a basis this pathetic, don't vote don't complain defense?  .05%?  Really.  Every other company on the globe asks you if it's ok to collect usage data to "improve" the product. Why isn't EN?  If EN did I'd bet you'd learn that there is an 80/20 rule happening here.  80% of users chose the horizontal view.  Of those, a fraction are in this thread generating 80% of the anger in the forum.

Furthermore, Microsoft doesn't want to get rid of the Metro interface because they need to grease the skids to get people to learn THEIR interface on THEIR portable devices.  They've already lost the portable war and are trying to come back from the dead.  That is their ULTERIOR motive.  That is why we are being bludgeoned with something we don't want.  That is why the entire PC industry is in a free-fall at a time they can least afford.  Don't be surprised if Windows Blue doesn't bring back the start button.

 

Does EN have an ULTERIOR motive for this change?  If they don't bring back the horizontal view, you can bet there is one, that we are the convenient and contrived patsy, and the motive will reveal itself in time.

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it's basically like finding that the new Ford car you just bought had no steering wheel and instead has a joystick. When you ask the salesman what happened, the following interaction occurs

 

SALESMAN - "oh yea, we had to remove the steering wheel to make way for the new multimedia screen - it's really cool!"

YOU - "Riiiight... but I'm used to driving cars with steering wheels - i wanted, and paid for a steering wheel"

SALESMAN - "Everyone wants the new multimedia system, and there was only this way to fit it in!"

YOU - "Well I don't want it... I'm not even going to use it - and anyway, isn't the way you drive the car more important than watching films when you're meant to be driving?"

SALESMAN - "No of course not! This is progress!"

YOU - "Erm.... it isn't.... Who's idea was this?"

SALESMAN - "Sir, we had a poster up for a week in the corner of the showroom behind the large pot-plant, to tell people about the steering wheel removal - but no-one complained"

YOU - "Well I certainly would have complained had I seen it, but I don't tend to hang around here... well I want my old car back now please unless you give me a steering wheel"

OTHER CUSTOMERS - "YEA US TOO!"

RANDOM GUY - MIGHT BE THE CLEANER - "If you guys had just hung around the showroom every day, and asked the salespeople constantly, read all the sales brochures regularly for changes, written to ford every week.... maybe the steering wheel would never have been removed"

YOU AND THE OTHER CUSTOMERS IN DISBELIEF ".......    but surely you can't be.... that's ridiculous.... i mean, i don't even know where to start........ yea we've all kind of got lives to lead sorry"

SALESMAN - "Bye Bye!"

RANDOM GUY - "I love Fords"

 

Well said Silvers.  You really hit the nail on the head!

 

Now, the question is, can Evernote see through their arrogance, admit a mistake, and take quick, corrective action.

 

This outcry is totally amazing.  It far exceeds the outcry for both Skitch 2 and EN Mac 5.  Wow!!!

 

Evernote, when are you going to realize that you do NOT always know best???  Sorry, but you are NOT the smartest person in the room.  :ph34r:

 

There is a very old adage, that has been proven again and again:  "The CUSTOMER is always right".  Wake up and smell the roses!! LOL

 

Want an example?  Look at GM and Ford, and all the other US auto makers in the late 1970s and 80s.  They refused to give the US people what we wanted, and so the Japanese and other foreign auto makers came in and stole the market.  Closer to home.  Look at Word Perfect in the mid 1980s.  Totally owned the word processor market.  Wouldn't/Couldn't adapt to the the graphical UI, and so completely lost the market to MS Word.

 

Let me close with this.  I say all of this not to bash Evernote, but to encourage you to be better.  I love your core product, but I do NOT love what you have done to it starting with EN Mac 5.  FYI, I'm still running EN Mac 3.3.0 on my primary system.  Come on Evernote, get over yourself!  :D

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it's basically like finding that the new Ford car you just bought had no steering wheel and instead has a joystick. When you ask the salesman what happened, the following interaction occurs

 

SALESMAN - "oh yea, we had to remove the steering wheel to make way for the new multimedia screen - it's really cool!"

YOU - "Riiiight... but I'm used to driving cars with steering wheels - i wanted, and paid for a steering wheel"

SALESMAN - "Everyone wants the new multimedia system, and there was only this way to fit it in!"

YOU - "Well I don't want it... I'm not even going to use it - and anyway, isn't the way you drive the car more important than watching films when you're meant to be driving?"

SALESMAN - "No of course not! This is progress!"

YOU - "Erm.... it isn't.... Who's idea was this?"

SALESMAN - "Sir, we had a poster up for a week in the corner of the showroom behind the large pot-plant, to tell people about the steering wheel removal - but no-one complained"

YOU - "Well I certainly would have complained had I seen it, but I don't tend to hang around here... well I want my old car back now please unless you give me a steering wheel"

OTHER CUSTOMERS - "YEA US TOO!"

RANDOM GUY - MIGHT BE THE CLEANER - "If you guys had just hung around the showroom every day, and asked the salespeople constantly, read all the sales brochures regularly for changes, written to ford every week.... maybe the steering wheel would never have been removed"

YOU AND THE OTHER CUSTOMERS IN DISBELIEF ".......    but surely you can't be.... that's ridiculous.... i mean, i don't even know where to start........ yea we've all kind of got lives to lead sorry"

SALESMAN - "Bye Bye!"

RANDOM GUY - "I love Fords"

This is so cool.  And so representative of the situation.  5 gold stars for you to put it in such an articulate and humorous way. :)

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PS if you take the "1 written complaint = 100 unsatisfied people who leave to your competitor without saying anything "adage - we're up to 25,000 unhappy clients - and that's if you only look at the number of comments in this thread let alone all the support emails you would have received on top of this.  Evernote you really need to take notice.  Or at least come into this thread and tell us you're fixing it so we can all go home and stop picketing for truth justice and the umm ... well you get the idea. :)

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Here are two things we are missing and it has been rampant in this thread...

  1. When was the last time a developer was allowed to make a decision of this magnitude?  These are the guys in the engine room shoveling coal.  Did they cause the Titanic to hit that iceberg?  No.  It was the idiot who worked for the company.  See, developers would actually listen to people.  EN the corporation had a new field to plow and decided they needed to make way.  I applaud the developers and all they do.  Find the moron who was after the new revenue stream and you've found the bad guy.
  2. Who in God's name ever made such a major change in usability with an unassuming poll?  EN phones home to do its thing.  It's cloud-based.  The folks at EN know exactly what their user-base is.  How many votes were actually cast, that EN then chose to use as a basis this pathetic, don't vote don't complain defense?  .05%?  Really.  Every other company on the globe asks you if it's ok to collect usage data to "improve" the product. Why isn't EN?  If EN did I'd bet you'd learn that there is an 80/20 rule happening here.  80% of users chose the horizontal view.  Of those, a fraction are in this thread generating 80% of the anger in the forum.

Furthermore, Microsoft doesn't want to get rid of the Metro interface because they need to grease the skids to get people to learn THEIR interface on THEIR portable devices.  They've already lost the portable war and are trying to come back from the dead.  That is their ULTERIOR motive.  That is why we are being bludgeoned with something we don't want.  That is why the entire PC industry is in a free-fall at a time they can least afford.  Don't be surprised if Windows Blue doesn't bring back the start button.

 

Does EN have an ULTERIOR motive for this change?  If they don't bring back the horizontal view, you can bet there is one, that we are the convenient and contrived patsy, and the motive will reveal itself in time.

 

I guess we don't know who signed off the change, it's unlikely to be a lone developer. It's been done for a reason, but the reason is misguided. I tend to think that Evernote are trying to differentiate themselves from other note-taking apps by adding new features, which will enable them to put the prices up later because hey, look at all these extra features? That's conjecture clearly, but I can't imagine any other reason extra functionality would take precedence over 'core' functionality in this way.... apart from genuine stupidity of course. Question is if someone created a feature request for say... an egg-timer in Evernote, and a hundred people +1ed it, would Evernote build that in? If that's where reminders come from, you need to understand the core vision of your product, and not let certain users guide the direction of it, whilst studiously ignoring complaints from the rest... doesn't make any sense. 

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+1  I review change notices before upgrading my software.  If removal of this view had been publicized with the upgrade, I would not have upgraded.  It has really disrupted my workflow for no benefit to me (I could care less about the Reminders feature...EN is not my calendar/messaging app)

 

Defeaturing a product and blaming it on a new feature, while excusing it with a "we did a poll on our forums" is mighty weak sauce.

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Please bring back the horizontal view.

After starting to use http://www.thesecretweapon.org i use the horizontal list view all the time to organize my notes.

On a smaller screen the horizontal list view works best to see the full heading, tags and date of a note.

 

Jonas

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For what its worth, and I won't belabour the point as it has been fully expressed by others:

  1. I too use(d) the horizontal list view exclusively as I use "The Secret Weapon" - i.e. Evernote for GTD
  2. I too read the changelog before "upgrading" and was surprised by the disappearance of a feature without any mention of it in the changelog
  3. Although I appreciate the potential usefulness of reminders (remains to be proven), I would certainly NOT have "upgraded" had I known what was coming down the pipe

As to not being able to reconcile the UI bits and pieces, you have at least 2 options that I can think of off the top of my head and I've only done a bit of Cocoa programming:

  1. Add the reminders as a section in the existing sidebar; or
  2. Add reminders in an inspector window for views where the reminder pane doesn't play well with others.

Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents.  I will try this thing for a little while longer before "downgrading" to v 5.1.0 but I sincerely hope the fix comes before that!

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Yup. I can't believe this is missing either. Just about fine on a large screen, but not so great on a laptop. 

 

So not happy with evernote right now. 

 

Even Microsoft realise that a vertical list only works where you want to display one or two fields of information. 

 

 

So there we go - Evernote - more inconsistent user interfaces than Microsoft !!!

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Well GrumpyMonkey, I wondered if you knew how much you were pissing off users of Evernote who posted here... I guess you do, and you enjoy it. 

 

http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38436-big-windows-update-coming-dont-trash-the-horizontal-view/

 

 

GrumpyMonkey, on 27 May 2013 -7:50, said:

The 5.1.1. Mac users are now being chastised for not being vocal enough in the past about their desires.So as a Windows user, let me go on the record:

Chastised by me  :)
If you are angry, that is your choice. I don't have any power over your emotional state, or anyone else's for that matter. I certainly don't want you or any other users to be upset, and I assure you that I am not experiencing any troll-like pleasure in your discomfort.

I was simply expressing my opinion about the opportunities that I think users should take advantage of with this forum. The developers are interested in hearing what users want to say, and I hope everyone will let them know.

I also encourage everyone to read the entire post you linked (http://discussion.evernote.com/topic/38436-big-windows-update-coming-dont-trash-the-horizontal-view/?p=207731) and come to their own conclusions about how reprehensible (or not) my suggestions are. Specifically, the post goes on to say, "And, you are doing what I think everyone ought to be doing -- voicing your opinion BEFORE Evernote (or any developer) commits to a course of action rather than afterwards, when you have to fight to get something you need back..." and then goes on to offer my own suggestion for improvement (which has so far not been adopted by the developers, but hope springs eternal) "At a glance I would like to see as much information about my account and my notes as possible. I understand that this might be overwhelming to some users, especially newer ones, or people with fewer notes, so persistent on/off toggles (as we used to have with OSX) would be fine..."

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I'd like to keep the feedback on this thread constructive and about the product. Multiple posts and personal attacks aren't helpful.

 

As always, thanks to everyone for posting. Your requests are all being heard.

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Grumpymonkey is not the enemy. My take on this forum is that GM
has been engaging in a balanced way with the user community. And GM's
perspective is what I think most of us would want: give the user choice to
set the display as he or she wants. GM - I appreciate your inputs. (And by
the way, this doesn't mean I don't want horizontal lists back).

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Grumpymonkey is not the enemy. My take on this forum is that GM

has been engaging in a balanced way with the user community. And GM's

perspective is what I think most of us would want: give the user choice to

set the display as he or she wants. GM - I appreciate your inputs. (And by

the way, this doesn't mean I don't want horizontal lists back).

 

Thanks for the kind words, and for restating the thrust of my comments. I couldn't have said it better ("give the user choice to set the display as he or she wants"). And, just for the record, I'd like the horizontal view back as well :)

 

I think there have been some really constructive posts, especially by people who have detailed their own use cases and workflows. It has given me more  insight into how others use the app, and I've even gotten some ideas for my own workflow from the discussions. Hopefully, it has also helped the developers get a better sense of how the app is being used in the wild. 

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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :) ' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.  

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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :)' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.  

 

Dude, that is one of the greatest things I've ever seen on a forum (among off-topic stuff). Thank you for being a great example of showing a lot of class. My hat is off to you and I hope I remember to do the same if I post something I regret some day.

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Since I started this GrumpyMonkey snark thing I want to apologize to GrumpyMonkey.  I deleted my post about GrumpyMonkey's 'chastising :)' a few minutes after posting it.  My post was snarky and off topic.  Unfortunately, GrumpyMonkey responded to it before my deletion....keeping it alive!   I don't know GrumpyMonkey.  He posts here a lot.  He obviously likes posting in the forum.  It is a service to the community, even if it can rub the wrong way.  His dedication to the forums is obvious.  

 

GrumpyMonkey, I'm sorry for making it personal.   What you do is cool.  Thank you.

No need for apologies! But, thank you :)

You're passionate about the topic, and you're here offering feedback. That's what's important, and I really appreciate it. My apologies to you and anyone else in the thread for derailing the conversation. That certainly wasn't my intention, and in the future I will be more careful to let the conversations take their course before I jump in with my (sometimes too strong) opinions. Cheers!

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My workflow is gone.  Without question, I need to have the horizontal list view restored.  As with other users, it is the only view I had used, leveraging it to prioritize, process and manage my work.

 

I have been a Premium member since 2008 or 2009 and had nearly dropped EN a few times over the years due to unwanted changes, stability challenges, security issues, differences across the platforms I use, etc.  However, I returned to EN as my primary work management system with a greater focus on the GTD methodology using the TSW process mentioned by other users.

 

I have invested a significant amount of time fitting EN for both my professional and personal task management system.  Additionally, I have encouraged members of my teams to take another look at EN in this capacity and begin review of the additional products and "Business" offerrings for adoption within our company.  I can say now that there may be too much risk and uncertainty in regards to how features are managed and users' issues are addressed.

 

Without the return of horizontal list view, complete with the tagging and date columns for sorting, and a greater commitment to resolving user issues, I will be moving away from EN permanently.

 

 

EN Team, please provide your position on restoring the horizontal list view and an estimated date of delivery, if applicable.  Thank you.

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EN Team, please provide your position on restoring the horizontal list view and an estimated date of delivery, if applicable.  Thank you.

See post #24 in this thread. An Evernote employee does given an explanation of why it was removed. Evernote, however, does not generally make their roadmap public.

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You would think Evernote understands that Reputation Management is a critical component of successful business management right? And gIven the extent of this problem and the number of people being vocal, don't you think it would be good idea to at least comment in YOUR OWN forums to let people know if this problem is being addressed? It's not like we need a 'roadmap' for your future growth plans - this is function issue, not a competitive edge issue - although if you continue to ignore it, it will certainly become your 'competitors' edge to exploit.

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@megsaint Fair comment that @Evernote gave an explanation. Body of opinion seems to be they should think again. In Hegelian dialectic terms we're just looking for "synthesis". :-) I would hope it would be found in greater customisability of the user experience.

(And I remain bemused by the notion that Reminders made some things impossible.)

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I would very very strongly support having the horizontal list view back. I have unfortuantely upgraded evernote on my laptop, which basically makes it unusable for me. I won't update it on any of my other computers until this has been restored (hopefully it will!)

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I want the horizontal list view back please. Like many others, I thought I had set something incorrectly by accident, then I thought it was a bug. I use 2 monitors, and like someone above the second one is a widescreen rotated 90 degrees, dedicated mostly to Evernote, with the list above, the sidebar, and the note at bottom. I am quite p**d that this view was stolen from me.

Evernote gets the trophy (previously Adobe) for the software company that most p**s off its customers by making sneaky UI changes.  Yeah, yeah - "We discussed it in the forum..."

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Can't believe this has gone. UX destroyed!

 

Please bring back.

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Hope the option back too, by the way, i must say i love Evernote 4.0 more,

Evernote 5 is slower than the old version on my iMac..

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As I mentioned, I actually prefer the new vertical view, but certainly didn't want to see people who preferred horizontal lose it.  Now I am curious how this is going to affect the Windows client?  It's crystal clear that reminders are here to stay and will probably be on the way with the next Windows client release.  Will the Windows client at that point also gain the vertical and lose the horizontal view?

 

I imagine there are a heck of a lot more Windows users so if the change on the Mac generated 14 pages (so far), it's going to be entertaining to see what happens when the Windows client gets the change.  Or is this fiasco causing them to rethink what they do with the Windows client before they release it?

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This is a busy thread.  I haven't read every post, but after seeing some of the discontent on the blog, I thought I would come in here and voice their concerns.  Looks like a LOT of other people beat me to it.  As someone who wanted vertical list view, I never thought it was an either/or option.  Ultimately, I think "user choice" is a good rule of thumb.  I even Skitched a little something below.  Would this work for people?

 

skitch.png

 

 

I guess you could always have another view "Expanded List View", maybe.  And in regards to Reminders.  Maybe just handle them like you do in the Expanded Card View.  Just have them way at the top past the Note List.

 

I realize there's a lot of upset people, and as a pseudo-developer, I get that this stuff is hard.  I would just remind everyone that Evernote (unlike any other company I've seen) actually engages with their users and actively develops based on feedback.  The speed at which these people iterate blows my mind.

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Evernote has done an amazing job as positioning itself as a ubiquitous information utility.  It is everywhere.  Like all good utilities, it has faded into the background and (like electricity and clean water) is just assumed to be there.

 

When you have a utility, you can only evolve it through a series of small background steps.  Ideally, enhancements should be an endless series of microinteractions that surprise and delight users (EN has actually been good at this).  This sort of opinionated change has a place in the product world, but is completely contrary to what a utility provider should be doing.

 

While I'm concerned about my loss of productivity in losing the horizontal view, I'm much more concerned about the direction of the service if this is the sort of change they company thought was going to be OK.

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Posted · Hidden by jefito, April 18, 2014 - No reason given
Hidden by jefito, April 18, 2014 - No reason given

Hi all forum readers (and Evernote):

 

Here is a thread from a ticket that I created when this upgrade first happened, before I discovered this forum. As you can see below, they appear to have made a commitment to bringing us full configurability. Now all we need is a date, or better yet, the real thing.....

 

Hello chrislumb,

Currently our development team is reviewing the possibility of bringing back the horizontal display or adding the ability for user to select a display view.
Either one will be available in a future release but unfortunately we don't have an estimated time for this.

We appreciate your patience and understanding.

Thank you.

Tania Iniguez
Evernote Support

 

chrislumb - Jun 01


Thanks for the 'canned' note. What are you going to do about this issue -
can you confirm when you will be bringing horizontal lists back again? Or
if you are not going to, can you confirm that too so I can get busy finding
another note taking app?

 

Thanks

Chris

Tania Iniguez - May 26


Thank you for providing this feedback on Evernote.
We really appreciate you taking the time to send us your feedback. Your comments and suggestions will help us to enhance Evernote and serve you better.
We will be sure to pass on the information you've provided to the product development team for discussion.

 

Thank you.

chrislumb - May 26


Hey guys, Your new screen formatting to show more real estate for lists and less for a current note is a bad idea.

 

This is not an improvement: I don't want my screen to be taken up by a long list of notes, most of which are not relevant to the task at hand.

How can I get my old version back? Or, when can you provide broader user configuration of screen layout?

Come on...let's get this back in shape again. Thanks Evernote team - your product is otherwise excellent.

 

Like us on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/evernote
Follow us on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/evernote
Check out our Blog: http://blog.evernote.com
Account Settings: https://www.evernote.com/User.action 
Discussion Boards: http://discussion.evernote.com/

Evernote Corporation, 305 Walnut Street, Redwood City, CA, 94063, USA

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5.1.4 update!  Back to Horizontal View!   (a.k.a. Top List View).

 

 

I guess I'll renew my Premium Membership now.

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THANK YOU!!!!

 

It's great that you guys were able to turn this around so quick - you must have swooped straight into action when it became clear the removal of the top list was an absolute show-stopper for so many of us.

 

Life is full of learning experiences right - if I could suggest one take-away from this whole storm in a tea-cup, it would be to let your customers know that you have swooped into action. I contacted chat support and they simply refused to tell me anything. They suggested I post here, and again, nothing official from EverNote. I checked the EverNote blog, also nothing. You had leapt into action, but we simply did not know you had, so we were still worrying that we needed to shout louder to be heard. A simple to the point blog post to the effect that a solution is in the works was all that would have been needed. At the very least you could have given your tech support people a quick one-line stock answer to that effect. I felt so sorry for the poor chat support agent who was prevented from helping me, either because she had been kept ignorant, or because she had been told to say nothing. As it was, both of us left the conversation with nothing to show for it but wasted time - I was no more mollified than when the chat started started (in fact I was more frustrated), and the agent seemed genuinely sorry that she was unable to be of any assistance at all.

 

Anyhow - thanks, and please consider being more communicative next time there is a boo boo. I never judge a company by whether or not they make mistakes, we ALL do that, I judge companies by how they respond to their mistakes, and how they learn from their mistakes.

 

Bart.

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Bravo! I haven't had a chance yet to explore fully but I look forward to being able to use reminders and to having my choice of horizontal or vertical list view. Thank you to the entire EN team for a speedy response to this issue. I had assumed that it would take many weeks at least for EN to restore horizontal views to 5.1. I am guessing that you guys have done some scrambling to deliver a solution to your users so quickly. This a terrific demonstration of how to listen and respond to user feedback. The real test of a performer (be it a team or an individual) is not whether mistakes are ever made, it's how mistakes are addressed and rectified when they are made. The EN team has passed that test with flying colors.

 

Although some of the feedback about the loss of horizontal list view in this forum has at times seemed strident, I hope the EN developers have been able to see that it is a testament to the value of EN that people really cared a lot when it was changed.

 

Thanks again for listening and responding so quickly.

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Thanks, guys! Was just about to spend a few hours backing up and rolling back to get my horizontal list view back, so the release's timing couldn't have been better. Way to turn around a solution. (Wish I'd known to stop worrying and that you were on the case, but done = good. Thanks tons.) 

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Thank you, much appreciated.

The addition of the reminders might come in handy and I like how you can just scroll down and they're not in the way when you're not looking at them.

Keep up the good work :)

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Gotta love how throughout all this Evernote didn't even bother responding at all in here.  Whats the point of these forums if they can't be bothered to get involved?  

 

Has anyone actually downloaded and installed the latest version?  Does it work?  I'd rather hear from someone first hand it's all good before upgrading again and downgrading again.

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Or you could do it like that.  Haha!  Nice work.

 

You did forget something though Jack:

 

 

In all seriousness, THIS is one of the reasons why I love this company so much.

 

Kudos to the team:

 

Built with love by:

Ruben Bakker

Gabe Campodonico

Phil Constantinou

Zeesha Currimbhoy

Justin Gareau

Jack Hirsch

Dirk Holtwick

Jason Jones

Phil Libin

Zdzisiek Losvik

Daniel Lu

Josh Mangum

Andrew McGeachie

Carlos Rocafort IV

Matt Sarnoff

Melissa Tsang

Brandon Volbright

Vineet Wadhwa

Mel Walker

Alec Winograd

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Gotta love how throughout all this Evernote didn't even bother responding at all in here.  Whats the point of these forums if they can't be bothered to get involved?  

 

Has anyone actually downloaded and installed the latest version?  Does it work?  I'd rather hear from someone first hand it's all good before upgrading again and downgrading again.

 

Ozmark,

That simply isn't the case.  Jack and others did respond.  You can always tell by the colored Evernote logo under their avatar.

I realize everyone has different expectations of what customer service should be, but as you'll see from my previous post....Evernote isn't made by thousands of people working in a vacuum.  There were no promises given one way or another, but it's obvious now that the team was busy doing work.

 

I have installed the latest version and I think they covered all the bases.  I'll share some screens. 

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Top%20List%20View.png

 

 

Can I just say how much I dig the new Skitch!  Just started playing with it today.  Anyway, I know it's a large screenshot, but there was a lot of ground to cover.

 

  • You can sort the list by clicking on any column.
  • Right click allows you to show and hide columns.  The only ones I'm not showing are Source URL and Author.
  • All of the Reminders are at the top and simply scroll away as you move through the list.
  • You can drag and resize the columns as you see fit.
  • As you increase or decrease the width of the date columns, the data adjusts accordingly.  Notice the difference.

All in all, I think this is pretty solid.  If there is anything I would add, it might be a separate column for Reminders.  So when you're deep in a list of notes, you could quickly see where you've set Reminders and what the dates are.  For notes without a date, simply place the clock icon.

 

But what do you all think? 

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Thanks for coming back with a screen shot and update!  Muchly appreciated.

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I'm amazed that they managed to resolve those really tricky UI issues with the horizontal view and reminders so quickly  :D

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presumably 5.1.4 is not yet released to free users...

 

It is, I've never seen them release the app to Premium customers first - you may have to wait for your App Store to catch up if that's where you are getting it from.

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If you want to switch from the appstore version to the direct download one, it is not difficult (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=135). Otherwise, you have to wait for Apple to finish the approval process. As far as I know (to expand on what Metrodon said) there has never been any distinction made between Free and Premium users -- we all get the same app at the same time.

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If you want to switch from the appstore version to the direct download one, it is not difficult (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=135). Otherwise, you have to wait for Apple to finish the approval process. As far as I know (to expand on what Metrodon said) there has never been any distinction made between Free and Premium users -- we all get the same app at the same time.

 

I highly recommend the direct download version.  I'm a big fan of the App Store, but Evernote is one of those critical power apps for me.  I really need it to have more access to the Mac backend for things like Watched Folders.

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Thank you, Evernote, for bringing back the horizontal view. I'm grateful you found a way to accomplish it and, hopefully, not lose any features or functionality you gained when you removed it.

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Thank you, Evernote, for bringing back the horizontal view. I'm grateful you found a way to accomplish it and, hopefully, not lose any features or functionality you gained when you removed it.

 

Hey Dan, if you see the screenshot I posted earlier, I don't think anything was lost in setting it up.  Looks pretty solid.  I was playing with it some last night, and I think the smart approach was to definitely have both views.  I can easily see the need for both.

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Thank you for bringing back the top list view. Outstanding demonstration of listening to the customer and responding. Cemented my commitment to the platform.

 

Well done.

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Thank you, Evernote folks!   :)

 

I feel great about having horizontal list view back, and I feel even better about how quickly this was resolved.  

 

I love and use Evernote every single day, on all my devices, and feel even better about that now.

 

Thank you again!

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