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REQUEST: Increase limit on number of notebooks

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250 notebooks is not enough, I am finding myself having to delete notebooks and as a premium member the limit should be more

like 500 or limitless

Regards

Rob

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Personally, I find 250 to be 247 more than enough for my needs :)

But, I am sure there are all sorts of organizational schemes and use cases that would benefit from more than 250. I am guessing that the limit is an arbitrary one, much like the other ones (100,000 notes, 50MB note size, and so forth). As the service grows and develops, I wouldn't be surprised to see these limits increased or removed.

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In my opinion, Evernote works far better with fewer notebooks.

Along with well structured titles and specific tags.

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250 notebooks is not enough, I am finding myself having to delete notebooks and as a premium member the limit should be more

like 500 or limitless

Regards

Rob

I'd be interested in hearing about your note to notebook ratio and how that settles out. This is an honest question--I have about 16 different notebooks and a little over 700 notes--I couldn't imagine having that many notebooks. Do you have a pretty large number of notes? Does the infrastructure support lots of different automated note creation?

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Notebooks can be shared, but tags cannot, so I can imagine a situation in which someone had to share notebooks with 250 or more people (a teacher or someone with a small business).

Otherwise, if we are talking about organizing within an account (not an issue of sharing), even if it might not be ideal for someone's system, tags can usually replace notebooks (in my experience).

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As a recent convert to tags I'd like share a view. "Is there much difference?" . When I previously tried putting things in Notebooks and replicating my hard drive or my filing cabinet (for scans) I felt secure that I was tucking something away in an electronic draw or manilla folder as if it was some kind of physical thing that is compiled together and put next to other data in a similar category. But in actual fact, this electronic data created is going to be spread all over several hard drives in another part of the world. What correlates electronic data with other data is the assignment of an electronic attribute. In this respect, you are not actually 'putting' a note in a notebook (as if it was some physical placeholder), you are assigning an electronic notebook attribute to the file. This is really no different to assigning a tag in my view. But tags have an advantage. You can assign more than one which is great since you can very easily categorise data multiple ways. I can categorise all my receipts for example and at the same time tag a particular project on top of some of them. I can then be flexible about grouping data when I need it on the fly.

In fact EN made it easy for those of us who had the 'notebook' fetish by replicating the 'look' and feel of previous notebooks structures in the lower part of the left pane. There you can have the same hierarchy with tags that is familiar to us using notebooks.

So for me I see notebooks and tags as really being the same thing (file attributes) but with more restrictions on how you use notebooks. I'm sold on tags.

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As a recent convert to tags I'd like share a view. "Is there much difference?"

...

So for me I see notebooks and tags as really being the same thing (file attributes) but with more restrictions on how you use notebooks. I'm sold on tags.

But they're really not the same thing: notebooks partition your notes into separate collections (a note belongs to exactly one notebook), while tags just label notes (a note can have multiple tags). Notebooks are also the base units for certain operations (local notebooks, offline notebooks, shared notebooks) and these work regardless of tags.

So while notebooks and tags are similar, they're not identical, and it's good to know how they differ. I tend to use notebooks sparingly, but I do maintain more than one.

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OOPS SORRY LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE DONE USING EVERNOTE! YOU'VE REACHED YOUR NOTEBOOK LIMIT!

WTF

I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS AND I AM FREAKING OUT !

I'm so angry right now. That is unacceptable!!!!! I have been a premium user for years now, I use Evernote for everything! I have my life in it literally. I never even go near one tenth of my monthly limit but now all of a sudden today Evernote gives me an error saying that I have too many notebooks???? What am I supposed to do about this? Delete them? Everything I have is organized perfectly, and I need all these notebooks. I created them for a reason. Why should I even have a notebook limit? How does it make any kind of sense? Data limit I can understand but notebook limit? WWHHHYYY? Seriously.

Evernote has been bragging about the more you use it the more you will want to use it since day one, and how it becomes your second brain. Well I guess my second brain is seriously limited. What am I supposed to do now? I have no desire to start using tags instead of notebooks as their support suggested.

I'm sure I should be using a nicer "tone" right now but I after having invested and trusted so much information into a program using the paying version, this little surprise really feels like a slap in the face.

PLEASE FIX THIS!

SOON!

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OOPS SORRY LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE DONE USING EVERNOTE! YOU'VE REACHED YOUR NOTEBOOK LIMIT!

WTF

I JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THIS AND I AM FREAKING OUT !

I'm so angry right now. That is unacceptable!!!!! I have been a premium user for years now, I use Evernote for everything! I have my life in it literally. I never even go near one tenth of my monthly limit but now all of a sudden today Evernote gives me an error saying that I have too many notebooks???? What am I supposed to do about this? Delete them? Everything I have is organized perfectly, and I need all these notebooks. I created them for a reason. Why should I even have a notebook limit? How does it make any kind of sense? Data limit I can understand but notebook limit? WWHHHYYY? Seriously.

Evernote has been bragging about the more you use it the more you will want to use it since day one, and how it becomes your second brain. Well I guess my second brain is seriously limited. What am I supposed to do now? I have no desire to start using tags instead of notebooks as their support suggested.

I'm sure I should be using a nicer "tone" right now but I after having invested and trusted so much information into a program using the paying version, this little surprise really feels like a slap in the face.

PLEASE FIX THIS!

SOON!

Hi. Welcome to the forums!

I agree that it would be nice if we had no limits, but that isn't the case, and it has not been the case for a long time. The notebook limit (along with other ones) is nothing new.

https://support.evernote.com/link/portal/16051/16058/Article/614/How-many-notes-notebooks-and-tags-can-a-single-account-accommodate

Personally, I usually only have one or two notebooks at any given time, and generally don't use tags (http://www.princeton.edu/~cmayo/evernote-organization.html), but both are powerful tools that are designed to be used in conjunction with one another. That's just how the app works, so I'd recommend adapting yourself to the app that is, rather than to the app you want it to be.

Feature requests are great, of course, and I make them on a daily basis (any developers reading this can probably fill in the blanks here: v------- l--- v--w), but just because developers choose not to implement our ideas it doesn't mean the app is broken. It's just a difference of opinion. Maybe, if you could share your organizational system with us and make your case for more notebooks it might help to persuade the developers (they read the forums) :)

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ALSO

What I would really like The Evernote Team to understand is that not everybody uses their program the same way. One person might only need 3 notebooks with 10000 notes . That's fine. I really do not care how people organize their notes. I personally NEED the subdivisions of notes, notebooks AND piles of notes. I even asked in the past that you allow us to create BOXES of piles. WHY? BECAUSE I NEED TO BE ABLE TO ORGANIZE THE NOTES IN A WAY I CAN EASILY SEE THAT ARCHITECTURE OF FILING. I have no interest in tags. It does nothing for me. I would have a never ending list of tags with no way of filing those tags, no levels of organization, no architecture. So it's really not helpful to read the tag users experiences because that does not fit my personal needs.

Seriously .

FIX THIS

If this is something you're absolutely convinced you need, then Evernote is not the right product for you. Your time will be better spent looking for a product that works for you rather than ragging on one that doesn't & may never implement what you need.

But really, I think if you calmed down & read some of the tags vs notebooks threads, you'd see you really can get by with 250 notebooks or less.

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See, here's what I am hearing from Evernote since day one:

We want you to use the app to put ALL THE STUFF YOU WANT TO REMEMBER in it.

We want you to use our app FOR A LONG TIME.

The more people will have in it, the more likely they will be to stick to it because they will have invested so much important data in to. Basically, they will NEED it.

And that's exactly what I have done. Two years , thousands of hours of research filed in this app.

And I did this because I was under the impression, from listening to Phil Libin that this was an app that was dedicated to follow its users through many years, if not life.

So now , that Evernote is indeed crucial to my life because I have invested all this time and data in it, NOW it lets me down and tell me I can not keep on using it?

I seriously think I have a reason to be pissed here. Also this limit might be written somewhere but it surely is not advertised a lot. I never heard of it and I'v been keeping a very close eye on Evernote BECAUSE I have so much invested in it.

When you encourage users to commit so much into your app you have a responsibility towards them.

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See, here's what I am hearing from Evernote since day one:

We want you to use the app to put ALL THE STUFF YOU WANT TO REMEMBER in it.

We want you to use our app FOR A LONG TIME.

The more people will have in it, the more likely they will be to stick to it because they will have invested so much important data in to. Basically, they will NEED it.

And that's exactly what I have done. Two years , thousands of hours of research filed in this app.

And I did this because I was under the impression, from listening to Phil Libin that this was an app that was dedicated to follow its users through many years, if not life.

So now , that Evernote is indeed crucial to my life because I have invested all this time and data in it, NOW it lets me down and tell me I can not keep on using it?

I seriously think I have a reason to be pissed here. Also this limit might be written somewhere but it surely is not advertised a lot. I never heard of it and I'v been keeping a very close eye on Evernote BECAUSE I have so much invested in it.

When you encourage users to commit so much into your app you have a responsibility towards them.

There's nothing that says you can't continue to keep adding stuff to Evernote for years to come. Evernote emphasizes using tags rather than relying upon so many notebooks or even subnotebooks (which don't exist in EN.) Like I said, if you read some of the tag vs notebooks threads and calm down a bit, I think you'll see you can very easily reduce the number of notebooks you have & with no loss of functionality. I've been using EN since 2008 & have over 52,000 notes. There's not a day that goes by that I don't add notes & most days I add probably at list 15 or more. I've never reached the 250 limit. Yeah, everyone works differently. But I have to say, IMO, the tag thing is brilliant. But it does require thinking a bit differently than one has in the past.

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See, here's what I am hearing from Evernote since day one:

We want you to use the app to put ALL THE STUFF YOU WANT TO REMEMBER in it.

We want you to use our app FOR A LONG TIME.

The more people will have in it, the more likely they will be to stick to it because they will have invested so much important data in to. Basically, they will NEED it.

And that's exactly what I have done. Two years , thousands of hours of research filed in this app.

And I did this because I was under the impression, from listening to Phil Libin that this was an app that was dedicated to follow its users through many years, if not life.

So now , that Evernote is indeed crucial to my life because I have invested all this time and data in it, NOW it lets me down and tell me I can not keep on using it?

I seriously think I have a reason to be pissed here. Also this limit might be written somewhere but it surely is not advertised a lot. I never heard of it and I'v been keeping a very close eye on Evernote BECAUSE I have so much invested in it.

When you encourage users to commit so much into your app you have a responsibility towards them.

It's mentioned on the Evernote website, in this forum, and in the Evernote podcasts. Others have commented on the web about the limits as well. I agree that the Evernote service is not documented well at all, with much of it years out of date, if it even exists at all. All the more reason, then, to dig around for it before setting up a system.

You are angry, but I am not sure how we would determine if you have a right or not to it. That thorny issue might be beyond the scope of the problem :) You are here now, so the best we can do as users is figure out how to overcome your problem and state your case to try and convince developers to change the app.

And, as BNF said, the limited notebooks does not necessarily limit you, IF you adopt a system that takes advantage of what Evernote has to offer. I've been with Evernote 4 years, I have thousands of notes, and I've got 5 notebooks (most shared). My main default notebook holds 99% of the notes. At this rate, I won't reach 250 until I am dead and gone :)

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Well, as I said earlier, that's fine. We all use the app differently. That's my whole point. I only have 1700 notes but these notes deeply require more than 250 notebooks. It therefore is not surprising that you do not understand my frustration and fright if for you notebooks are not an essential feature of EN. But Please try to imagine, at the light of what I have said earlier regarding the amount of data and time I have trusted into EN, how this sudden impossibility to continue to create notebooks might be terrifying . What if in 3 years, after you have made EN a crucial tool for your work, it suddenly told you you could not create tags anymore hence no way to organize new data, hence transform EN into a dead but still indispensable thing for all you have put in it but with no possibility of adding to it and furthering your work in it. because as a researcher, new fields of information always keeps emerging. My life is not limited to 250 topics.

I am right now reading the Tag vs notebook threads in the hope to find a solution . Thank you for pointing me there. While I understand the advantages of metadata, I use it in FCPX, Capture One etc, There are also advantages to being able to physically sort your data. And that's what I truly need and loved so far with Evernote. I still find it hard to comprehend why such a restriction should even exist in the first place. My opinion is still that users should be able to choose how they want to sort their data.

On a sidenote. It looks to me, at least as far as I can tell that the restriction only applies to the server image of the program which I never, ever use. The error arrives when it tried to sync these additional notebooks to the server, because I am capable of creating them, just not syncing them. The notes in these additional notebooks get uploaded on the server but they go to the default notebook and the additional notebooks I create on the desktop client don't get created on the server , hence breaking the image symmetry .... I wonder how this works out because that means a specific note X is store at place A on my desktop and place B on the server image.

I would like to hear from EN on this, I have contacted the assistance and I really hope to hear something reassuring. It seems to make no sense to limit the number of notebooks when the data you can put in them is almost unlimited. Why?

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There are also advantages to being able to physically sort your data.

Since this data is all bits & bytes, there is no way to "physically" sort your data. However, sorting by notebooks is just as easily done with tags. Really.

But Please try to imagine, at the light of what I have said earlier regarding the amount of data and time I have trusted into EN, how this sudden impossibility to continue to create notebooks might be terrifying .

Sure. But at the same time, please try to see what others here are trying to convey to you. It's truly not the end of the world. I've yet to see a use case where tags didn't replicate notebooks, in the digital world.

It seems to make no sense to limit the number of notebooks when the data you can put in them is almost unlimited. Why?

I don't know. I do know EN has commented in the past that some restrictions are in play since they cover so many OS's. When you live on as many platforms as EN does, what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. They try to make their app work. Across all the platforms. And across all the various devices those platforms live on. I would guess that might be one of the things that attracted you to EN. But even if you only use it on one platform, that's still the niche that is Evernote & one of the (many) things that makes it great. Unless one is intimately involved with the issues encountered while doing such an undertaking, there's just simply no way to know.

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I can certainly imagine your scenario. As a researcher myself, and someone who has spent lots and lots of time fiddling around with organization / categorization of stuff, I can certainly see the appeal in notebooks.

Also, as I said, I am not a big fan of arbitrary limitations either. However, there is nothing to be surprised or frightened about. For many years now, people just like you have found a way to make it work for them.

I am on the minimalist side of things, but there is a huge range of possibilities. The more you share about your system, the better able experienced Evernote ninjas like BNF can help :)

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Well, as I said earlier, that's fine. We all use the app differently. That's my whole point. I only have 1700 notes but these notes deeply require more than 250 notebooks.

Only if you really don't believe that you can organize with tags. I think it's not as difficult as you may believe.

What if in 3 years, after you have made EN a crucial tool for your work, it suddenly told you you could not create tags anymore hence no way to organize new data, hence transform EN into a dead but still indispensable thing for all you have put in it but with no possibility of adding to it and furthering your work in it.

The 250 notebook limit is no sudden thing, and no secret; it actually was 100 not all that long ago. As it happens, the limit for numbers of tags is currently 10000, I think. I believe that the limitations are probably rooted in limitations of presentation in the UI, but that's just a guess.

because as a researcher, new fields of information always keeps emerging. My life is not limited to 250 topics.

Nor mine. Tags are perfect for topics. As a researcher you should know about keywords; that's just what tags are.

I am right now reading the Tag vs notebook threads in the hope to find a solution . Thank you for pointing me there. While I understand the advantages of metadata, I use it in FCPX, Capture One etc,

SImple:

Notebooks partition your set of notes: a note belongs to exactly one notebook.

Tags are labels that can be applied to any number of notes, while conversely, a note may have any number (may be limited, but it's a fair number) of tags. There's no reason that tags cannot partition your notes as notebooks do, but that seems kind of limiting, when you can get all kinds of good cross-classification using multiple tags.

There are also advantages to being able to physically sort your data. And that's what I truly need and loved so far with Evernote. I still find it hard to comprehend why such a restriction should even exist in the first place. My opinion is still that users should be able to choose how they want to sort their data.

Whatever "physically" sorting your data means, you can do it with tags about as easily.

I would like to hear from EN on this, I have contacted the assistance and I really hope to hear something reassuring. It seems to make no sense to limit the number of notebooks when the data you can put in them is almost unlimited. Why?

Good luck. As it goes, the limitation is just the way it is. It's fair game to request that the limit be raised, but if it's not, you'll need to rethink your strategy.

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there are many things that tags do not do as some users have mentioned above, you can not share a tag...

Also, it takes forever to apply metadata to each and every note to make sure it falls into the right place. I will need to add a separate entry of metadata for each filing level the note falls into and that to each note. Unless there is a way to do batch editing that I have not figure out. So not only will it take a lot of time in the future, I would also have to do it now to 1700 notes now just to replicate the architecture I already have right now with notebooks. With notebooks just just select the notebook you nee and add a new note, no need to enter any metadata for it to be organized.

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there are many things that tags do not do as some users have mentioned above, you can not share a tag...

That part is true. How many notebooks are you sharing?

I will need to add a separate entry of metadata for each filing level the note falls into and that to each note. Unless there is a way to do batch editing that I have not figure out. So not only will it take a lot of time in the future, I would also have to do it now to 1700 notes now just to replicate the architecture I already have right now with notebooks. With notebooks just just select the notebook you nee and add a new note, no need to enter any metadata for it to be organized.

Please provide a specific example b/c I don't really see what you're saying. Let's say you are adding your insurance renewal for Car A & you scan it in as a PDF. You might have a notebook for Car A & that's where you'd add this PDF note, in your example. Instead, what I do is I have a notebooks "Auto info". All info for all cars (insurance, tags, maintenance, etc) goes into that notebook. Tags do the differentiation. So I add my note to the "Auto info" notebook & simply tag it "Car A". Boom, yer done. There is nothing in the note itself I would do differently if I had a separate "Car A" notebook.

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Thank you or your input.

I will wait and see what Evernote says.

While you have opened my mind to considering tags I still think It would make a lot more sense to let people choose how they want to organize their notes. I'm definitely not looking forward to re-organizing all my notes one by one. I'm considering starting a second paying account for future notes.

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Thank you or your input.

I will wait and see what Evernote says.

While you have opened my mind to considering tags I still think It would make a lot more sense to let people choose how they want to organize their notes. I'm definitely not looking forward to re-organizing all my notes one by one. I'm considering starting a second paying account for future notes.

First, it's doubtful you'll get a response from EN that appeases you. IF (IF!) they were considering increasing the limit, they don't publish this info. Additionally, if they increased it, it would most likely be an increase & not an unlimited thing. When I first started using EN, the limit was 100 notebooks. They did increase that to 250 about three years ago.

Second, it's not as time consuming as you make it out to be. Like I said, if you have a notebook named "Car A", just create a notebook "Cars", Then create a tag "Car A", Select all the notes in your "Car A" notebook & apply the "Car A" tag & then move them to the "Cars" notebook. Really, it's not that bad.

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there are many things that tags do not do as some users have mentioned above, you can not share a tag...

That part is true. How many notebooks are you sharing?

I will need to add a separate entry of metadata for each filing level the note falls into and that to each note. Unless there is a way to do batch editing that I have not figure out. So not only will it take a lot of time in the future, I would also have to do it now to 1700 notes now just to replicate the architecture I already have right now with notebooks. With notebooks just just select the notebook you nee and add a new note, no need to enter any metadata for it to be organized.

Please provide a specific example b/c I don't really see what you're saying. Let's say you are adding your insurance renewal for Car A & you scan it in as a PDF. You might have a notebook for Car A & that's where you'd add this PDF note, in your example. Instead, what I do is I have a notebooks "Auto info". All info for all cars (insurance, tags, maintenance, etc) goes into that notebook. Tags do the differentiation. So I add my note to the "Auto info" notebook & simply tag it "Car A". Boom, yer done. There is nothing in the note itself I would do differently if I had a separate "Car A" notebook.

Sure but then to access the information on Car A you need first to select your Auto info notebook then go in a separate field to go and select your Car A tag to view all the notes related to said car. While this might work if you only have a few tags or few notebooks it becomes very annoying when you have hundreds.

What I need is to be able to easily see only the information I want to see while being able to choose from a "menu" of fields.

for example.

I use Piles of notebooks for General fields of Interest like Music, Contemporary Art, Cinema . The notebooks for say Articles on Cinema, Film Directors, DP. Then individual notes for each entry. I would not want to have to select in one field a notebook Cinema and then go in a different Field and look for the tag Articles on cinema...

Now if I were to use tags, I would want to ONLY use tags because it is important for me to be able to browse by opening and closing the content of my classifications . I do not want to have to navigate between notebooks and tags, I want all my organization in one place. And to properly file one Article I have to create the note then Tag it once Articles on Cinema and then Cinema which is two steps more than I originally had to do.

So it goes back to not being able to share tags and me having to enter multiple entries of metadata for 1700+ notes.

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Here's what I received...

Thank you for providing this feedback on Evernote.

Unfortunately, we cannot comment on the plans the developers have for changes to Evernote, such as allowing more notebooks than 250. We really appreciate you taking the time to send us your feedback. Your comments and suggestions will help us to enhance Evernote and serve you better.

We will be sure to pass on the information you've provided to the product development team for discussion.

Thank you

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Thank you or your input.

I will wait and see what Evernote says.

While you have opened my mind to considering tags I still think It would make a lot more sense to let people choose how they want to organize their notes. I'm definitely not looking forward to re-organizing all my notes one by one. I'm considering starting a second paying account for future notes.

First, it's doubtful you'll get a response from EN that appeases you. IF (IF!) they were considering increasing the limit, they don't publish this info. Additionally, if they increased it, it would most likely be an increase & not an unlimited thing. When I first started using EN, the limit was 100 notebooks. They did increase that to 250 about three years ago.

Second, it's not as time consuming as you make it out to be. Like I said, if you have a notebook named "Car A", just create a notebook "Cars", Then create a tag "Car A", Select all the notes in your "Car A" notebook & apply the "Car A" tag & then move them to the "Cars" notebook. Really, it's not that bad.

Mind you, Your Method COULD work for me if the tags available were specific to the selected notebook. For instance, if I selected Notebook A and the tag section updated to reveal only tags that are present in notebook A that could kind of work. But if I have to search in a long list of tags that mostly have nothing to do with notebook A to find the one I want , well that just doesn't work.

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Sure but then to access the information on Car A you need first to select your Auto info notebook then go in a separate field to go and select your Car A tag to view all the notes related to said car.

Actually, no. First, you don't have to specify a notebook. Second, I changed my "global search in EN" hotkey (in options) to F5. So I press F5 & then enter this into the search box:

tag:"Car A"

Boom, yer done.

What I need is to be able to easily see only the information I want to see while being able to choose from a "menu" of fields.

for example.

I use Piles of notebooks for General fields of Interest like Music, Contemporary Art, Cinema . The notebooks for say Articles on Cinema, Film Directors, DP. Then individual notes for each entry. I would not want to have to select in one field a notebook Cinema and then go in a different Field and look for the tag Articles on cinema...

Now if I were to use tags, I would want to ONLY use tags because it is important for me to be able to browse by opening and closing the content of my classifications . I do not want to have to navigate between notebooks and tags, I want all my organization in one place. And to properly file one Article I have to create the note then Tag it once Articles on Cinema and then Cinema which is two steps more than I originally had to do.

So it goes back to not being able to share tags and me having to enter multiple entries of metadata for 1700+ notes.

Like I said, please provide a specific example. B/C there is really no difference in a note itself if it's in a notebook called "Car A" or a notebook called "Cars" & tagged "Car A".

So it goes back to not being able to share tags and me having to enter multiple entries of metadata for 1700+ notes.

And like I said...

you can not share a tag...

That part is true. How many notebooks are you sharing?

and me having to enter multiple entries of metadata for 1700+ notes.

Again, please provide examples why...simply replacing a notebook with a tag name is as easy as selecting all the notes in a particular notebook & applying that tag. NBD. There is nothing different about the notes you have to change except the batch tagging & moving to a more generic/broad notebook.

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Mind you, Your Method COULD work for me if the tags available were specific to the selected notebook. For instance, if I selected Notebook A and the tag section updated to reveal only tags that are present in notebook A that could kind of work. But if I have to search in a long list of tags that mostly have nothing to do with notebook A to find the one I want , well that just doesn't work.

Tick the "hide tags" option in the left pane. (Windows client. Can't say if this works in the Mac client. I don't remember if you specified which client you're using. But I'm tired & not going through all the posts to see.)

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Mind you, Your Method COULD work for me if the tags available were specific to the selected notebook. For instance, if I selected Notebook A and the tag section updated to reveal only tags that are present in notebook A that could kind of work. But if I have to search in a long list of tags that mostly have nothing to do with notebook A to find the one I want , well that just doesn't work.

Tick the "hide tags" option in the left pane. (Windows client. Can't say if this works in the Mac client. I don't remember if you specified which client you're using. But I'm tired & not going through all the posts to see.)

First, I just found how to batch edit notes so thank you for pointing this out to me.

Second, I understand what you are saying about the notebook cars and the tag car A but I need to navigate from Cars to House to Many other Notebooks . It will become really annoying if I need to be picking a notebook then going to a list of hundreds of tags elsewhere to find the right tag. I'm on a mac btw. the tags do not appear under their respective notebook, they live in their own field with all the other tags of all the other notebooks. That's why i said then it's better for me to have only one notebook and only use tags so this way I can recreate the folder architecture I had with folders.

Finally, on a mac, sure I can hide the tags all together but how does that help me? Is there an option to make the tags update to only the ones present in the selected notebook? Because my point about your notebook + tags method is that it's too messy for me to have to first pick a notebook then browse through many many tags. So if I could pick say Notebook Cinema and the tags would update to only the ones existing in Notebook Cinema then I could easily pick a tag and browse through my notes. but If I have to looks through hundreds of tags , or open and close folders of tags; that gets me nowhere.

I think we must be using our Evernote differently. I use it to file stuff in but also to browse fields of interest. I do not always know what I am looking for, I browse in it like in a big book. So I need to be able to access a chapter and then a subchapter and browser all the notes in said subchapter. I almost never do searches since I can access a note in 3 clicks with my notebooks "folder" structure .

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ALSO,

Just noticed something tags do not do: on IOS tags do not respect their hierarchy . But notebooks do. Meaning I can see piles of notebooks and their respective notebooks grouped. But the tags appear all on the same lever even if in the desktop application I have created "folders" of tags.

That's really bad for me because it means if I were to use tags which seems to be the only alternative to this stupid limit I would have no way to see my notes in an organized manner on Ipad or iPhone....

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I recommend tailoring your workflow to the strengths and weaknesses of the clients you use the most. Evernote is different on different devices. Here are some specific examples:

In my case, I use the iPad, so I think my minimalist method (see link earlier in thread) works well. If I were on Windows, though, with all of those sorting features, vertical list view, etc., then I'd probably use a lot more tags.

And, because the desktop versions do not yet have selective syncing, I have stripped out all attachments in order to fit within the constraints of the Macbook Air's limited storage.

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I am posting these new findings after doing some tests.

The results are troubling and The Evernote team really needs to address this.

When you have more than 250, everytime you will try to sync a new note it will give you the error and then it will look like it went away and it's now syncing BUT HERE'S THE CATCH! If you go and look on a different device, like your Ipad or the web client, The note itself will have been uploaded but it will be created in your default notebook , NOT in the notebook where you created it on your desktop. So what this is doing is breaking the symmetry you once had on all your devices. Now Notes will be at different places. NOW here's what's even scarier . If you make any changes in that note on that other device, it will sync and then move your note into the default folder on the desktop app. SO that means it is disorganizing your notes ! You will be looking for said note and it will have disappeared and moved to your default folder.

What This means is that what once was this beautiful symmetry on all your devices is now all screwed up by the inconsistencies introduced by this 250 limit.

Another thing that makes no sense what so ever is that Once a notebook is created you can not change it's sync options. So there is no easy way to manage tis 250 synced notebooks limit by toggling them on or offline.

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Furthermore since it does not warn you nor let you monitor how many notebooks you currently have, when you create a new one it defaults to synced notebook even if you are over your limit . It would make a lot more sense if once the limit reached it could only create local notebooks. At least it would prevent us from messing up all our notes by the previously described scenario.

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I am posting these new findings after doing some tests.

The results are troubling and The Evernote team really needs to address this.

When you have more than 250, everytime you will try to sync a new note it will give you the error and then it will look like it went away and it's now syncing BUT HERE'S THE CATCH! If you go and look on a different device, like your Ipad or the web client, The note itself will have been uploaded but it will be created in your default notebook , NOT in the notebook where you created it on your desktop. So what this is doing is breaking the symmetry you once had on all your devices. Now Notes will be at different places. NOW here's what's even scarier . If you make any changes in that note on that other device, it will sync and then move your note into the default folder on the desktop app. SO that means it is disorganizing your notes ! You will be looking for said note and it will have disappeared and moved to your default folder.

What This means is that what once was this beautiful symmetry on all your devices is now all screwed up by the inconsistencies introduced by this 250 limit.

Another thing that makes no sense what so ever is that Once a notebook is created you can not change it's sync options. So there is no easy way to manage tis 250 synced notebooks limit by toggling them on or offline.

Yes, you're going to have to eliminate some notebooks. So if you have a notebook named "car a", just tag all those notes with "car a", move them to another, existing notebook like your default notebook & delete the "car a" notebook.

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Actually, I'd suggest this. Create Tag:Cars, Tag:Car A, etc. Then apply the appropriate tags(in Windows this can be all at once) and dump then all of them into a common container, archive. Delete the notebooks.

Now the segregation desired can be achieved by clicking on a tag instead of a notebook. It will look the same in the listing.

This does not apply to shared or local notebooks. I resisted this for a while, but really don't see any difference now.

Regards,

Gary

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Actually, I'd suggest this. Create Tag:Cars, Tag:Car A, etc. Then apply the appropriate tags(in Windows this can be all at once) and dump then all of them into a common container, archive. Delete the notebooks.

Now the segregation desired can be achieved by clicking on a tag instead of a notebook. It will look the same in the listing.

I don't see any salient difference between what you proposed and what BnF proposed.

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@jefito "I don't see any salient difference between what you proposed and what BnF proposed."

Neither do I. Was hoping that 2 slightly different descriptions, with a bit more detail, would be useful.

Probably should have left out "Actually, I'd suggest this.".

Sorry,

Gary

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@Gary: no biggie, no need for apologies -- sometimes I miss things, and I wanted to make sure -- the general procedure was what I was on the verge of describing myself, but then I read your and BnF's accounts.

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Seriously.

Evernote has been bragging about the more you use it the more you will want to use it since day one, and how it becomes your second brain. Well I guess my second brain is seriously limited. What am I supposed to do now? I have no desire to start using tags instead of notebooks as their support suggested.

...

I am also a confirmed notebook vs tag user. I have tried many times to make tags work as a primary organizational feature but the stuff I keep in EN works better in notebooks. I have bumped into the 250 nb limit a few times and have several strategies. I'm not sure they will work for you but here are a few.

1. When a project (I am an architect) reaches completion I archive the notebook(s) for that project to a folder on DropBox. In that way if I eventually find out I need it I just restore it from that folder wherever I am.

2. I break many projects into a stack of several notebooks. I keep an eye on those and look for opportunities to combine notebooks as the project evolves.

3. Finally I look through my folders once in a while and look for those that have 1 or 2 notes in them and I look for ways to shift those notes somewhere else. I also look for folders that I really never look at. Those I either archive, combine elsewhere or delete.

While I hit the 250 limit once in a while I think I want EN to keep the limit because it pushes me to keep my database a little better organized and in control.

Hugh

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All info for all cars (insurance, tags, maintenance, etc) goes into that notebook. Tags do the differentiation. So I add my note to the "Auto info" notebook & simply tag it "Car A". Boom, yer done. There is nothing in the note itself I would do differently if I had a separate "Car A" notebook.

Not to beat this mercilessly beaten dead horse but... your workflow adds a second step to the process of creating a note that I do not have in a multi stack/notebook system. Mine is, I add my note to the correct notebook and Boom, yer done.

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your workflow adds a second step to the process of creating a note that I do not have in a multi stack/notebook system. Mine is, I add my note to the correct notebook and Boom, yer done.

That's not correct... You can add new notes to a selected Tag as well with a single step, it's just not a default behaviour in Windows.

In windows you can change registry setting "SetNewNoteTags" from 0 to 1.

In iOS you can add notes directly to tags or notebooks, it's a default behaviour to begin with.

I almost always add new notes to the inbox Notebook and organise them later, so I personally prefer the default Windows behaviour.

To change it:

Quit Evernote completely by right-clicking the elephant icon in your system tray and choosing Quit.

Launch the Windows Registry Editor by clicking Start, Run and typing regedit.

Expand the HKEY_CURRENT_USER folder and browse to Software\Evernote\Evernote.

Change "SetNewNoteTags" from 0 to 1.

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your workflow adds a second step to the process of creating a note that I do not have in a multi stack/notebook system. Mine is, I add my note to the correct notebook and Boom, yer done.

That's not correct... You can add new notes to a selected Tag as well with a single step, it's just not a default behaviour in Windows.

On windows you can change registry setting "SetNewNoteTags" from 0 to 1.

On ios you can add notes directly to tags or notebooks, it's a default behaviour to begin with.

I almost always add new notes to the inbox Notebook and organise them later, so I personally prefer the default Windows behaviour.

To change it:

Quit Evernote completely by right-clicking the elephant icon in your system tray and choosing Quit.

Launch the Windows Registry Editor by clicking Start, Run and typing regedit.

Expand the HKEY_CURRENT_USER folder and browse to Software\Evernote\Evernote.

Change "SetNewNoteTags" from 0 to 1.

Nice to know, but oddly obscure. If EN is convinced that tags are the way to go, why isn't this the default setting. I think I will stick with the current setting.

The best thing working in favor of us Notebookers is the web clipper guessing (amazingly well) what notebook to put your clipped page or article into based on the topic of the clipped piece. That makes my workflow almost painless.

Hugh

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If EN is convinced that tags are the way to go, why isn't this the default setting.

This is a straw man argument kind of.

Whether EN is convinced that Tags are the way to go or not is irrelevant in the case of this particular feature/setting.

"new note" kind of implies that you're creating a new note from scratch, clean, without any content. Tags are content. You can add some tags if you want, or not. But it makes sense to create a NEW note without Tags initially by default. You can't go wrong with that, that's why it's default.

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The best thing working in favor of us Notebookers is the web clipper guessing (amazingly well) what notebook to put your clipped page or article into based on the topic of the clipped piece. That makes my workflow almost painless.

The best thing about Tags is that each note can have multiple Tags. I usually tag notes with at least 2 tags, sometimes up to 12 tags. Can't do that with notebooks. That makes a workflow based on only notebooks kinda painful in my view.

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The best thing about Tags is that each note can have multiple Tags. I usually tag notes with at least 2 tags, sometimes up to 12 tags. Can't do that with notebooks. That makes a workflow based on only notebooks kinda painful in my view.

I think that that's really my main motivation for preferring tags (or GMail labels, or Outlook categories) to Notebooks (or folders). Notebooks are not useless, but for most of my needs, tags are more flexible and powerful organizing tools.

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The best thing about Tags is that each note can have multiple Tags. I usually tag notes with at least 2 tags, sometimes up to 12 tags. Can't do that with notebooks. That makes a workflow based on only notebooks kinda painful in my view.

Agreed... i use tags that way. I think what the notebook/tag discussion really comes down to is that initial creation of notes. My EN use is typically 20 - 30 images, diagrams or articles that I come across on the web or in emails in the course of a day. I like the speed and ease of just saving that item to the appropriate notebook without having to add tags at that time. When I have some free time I will go through these notes and add tags if they will help. I may not get time for two weeks and wading through so many notes is difficult. Most of my notes can not be searched because they are images with little or no text. This is why I find dropping them in the right notebook initially helps me find them whenever I need them. It just comes down to my perception of the easiest and fastest way to get notes into my database.

So I am a big fan of tags but as a supplement to my notebook organization. I don't need huge changes to EN and nothing should impact those who use tags as their primary organizer. I have given up hope that EN will extend it's notebook hierarchy beyond a stack and one level. All I want is a collapsible list of notebooks on my iPad like the one I have on my mac.

Hugh

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So I am a big fan of tags but as a supplement to my notebook organization. I don't need huge changes to EN and nothing should impact those who use tags as their primary organizer. I have given up hope that EN will extend it's notebook hierarchy beyond a stack and one level. All I want is a collapsible list of notebooks on my iPad like the one I have on my mac.

I think that most of us agree that that would be a good thing, and overdue.

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So I am a big fan of tags but as a supplement to my notebook organization. I don't need huge changes to EN and nothing should impact those who use tags as their primary organizer. I have given up hope that EN will extend it's notebook hierarchy beyond a stack and one level. All I want is a collapsible list of notebooks on my iPad like the one I have on my mac.

I think that most of us agree that that would be a good thing, and overdue.

+1 on more hierarchies. As a developer, I want the structure to be something like

Techniques -> Web -> HTML

Techniques -> Web -> CSS

Techniques -> Mobile -> iOS

Techniques -> Mobile -> Android

Life -> Beer

So allowing a flexible number of hierarchies would be ideal for me.

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All info for all cars (insurance, tags, maintenance, etc) goes into that notebook. Tags do the differentiation. So I add my note to the "Auto info" notebook & simply tag it "Car A". Boom, yer done. There is nothing in the note itself I would do differently if I had a separate "Car A" notebook.

Not to beat this mercilessly beaten dead horse but... your workflow adds a second step to the process of creating a note that I do not have in a multi stack/notebook system. Mine is, I add my note to the correct notebook and Boom, yer done.

Thank you... I was beginning to think I was the only one...

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For all you fervent tag users, thanks again for all your tips.

My whole point was never to declare notebooks better than tags, but rather to point out that while one might fit the needs of one particular person, the other might be much better for another person's needs.... And that it would make a lot more sense if we were able to use both in an unlimited manner... Everyone would be happy.

Also, I have pointed this out already but it seems to have gone un-noticed so here I go again.

Tags offer ZERO "collapsable" / "folder structure" organization on IOS at the moment. So while I am able to use them more or less the same way as folders on OSX , not so for IOS devices.

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Playing devil's advocate... I'll repeat that... Playing devil's advocate... :-)

I wonder why there even SHOULD be a limit. I assume an integer field and just hope it isn't a single byte. :-) I could be wrong but I don't suppose it to have any impact on Evernote - servers or clients.

It seems to me that the main issue with >250 notebooks, or indeed >25 is usability. Somehow I might be approaching 25 - but I don't WANT as many as that. * And I certainly don't find the number I have particularly usable.

But give the OP enough rope... :-)

* And the reason for notebooks I don't want is mainly applications that insist on having their own - or at least default to that.

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Hi OP. I heard you loud and clear about tags in iOS. That is why I recommended tailoring your workflow / organization to the clients you use the most. I use neither tags nor notebooks at the moment because the effort does not produce sufficient rewards. When tags and notebooks become more full-featured in iOS, then I'll reconsider.

As for the number of notebooks, I think most would agree that unlimited would be great, but they'd also say that we don't have that, and might never have that, so you gotta work with what you got, and the tools we already have at our disposal (tags) are very powerful.

Given that an application like Evernote, which involves tens of millions of users all over the world, and is on every major platform, could not turn on a dime, even if it wanted to, your request will probably not be granted immediately. In the meantime, I suggest adapting yourself to the app that is, not the app you want it to be.

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@GM, I'm underwhelmed by the usefulness of tags as well. In fact I don't really know why I use them. Text (and maybe image and voice) analytics seems much the best way to go. Already I like the fact the Firefox Extension lets you add Evernote searches to normal web ones. I suspect much more could be done.

But I'm changing the topic here. So I won't. :-)

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+1 on more hierarchies. As a developer, I want the structure to be something like ...<snipped>

Er, I was actually just echoing hughjc's wish for the iOS clients to be able to display the notebook/stack list as it does on the Mac and other clients. As a developer, I couldn't care much less about hierarchies of notebooks, since tags are capable of doing nearly all of the organizing I need.

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@GM, I'm underwhelmed by the usefulness of tags as well. In fact I don't really know why I use them. Text (and maybe image and voice) analytics seems much the best way to go. Already I like the fact the Firefox Extension lets you add Evernote searches to normal web ones. I suspect much more could be done.

But I'm changing the topic here. So I won't. :-)

I think if I could easily access the tags right on the screen, instead of having them at least a tap away (more if you are changing or adding) then I'd be more likely to invest time and effort into tags.

If I could sort by tags (like on Windows), I'd use them more.

If I could do batch operations (select multiple notes at once to tag) then I'd use them more.

If I could see them displayed in list view (Windows) thenI'd use them more.

As it stands now, the iPad just doesn't access much of the potential in tags. It will get there someday, but just not yet.

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I agree it would be nice to see Tags in the body of a note at a glance right away.

Other than that you can do all the things you list, the only thing you can't do on iPad is sorting by Tags.

You can do batch operations (select multiple notes at once to tag) and see them displayed in list view.

8135027020_4ae6981840_b.jpg

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I agree it would be nice to see Tags in the body of a note at a glance right away.

Other than that you can do all the things you list, the only thing you can't do on iPad is sorting by Tags.

You can do batch operations (select multiple notes at once to tag) and see them displayed in list view.

http://discussion.ev...diphone/unread/

8135027020_4ae6981840_b.jpg

Yep. Just to be clear, this is not the app that Evernote develops, but a third-party integration by Shamrock Records. I'd like to see this kind of functionality in the Evernote app.

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Yep. Just to be clear, this is not the app that Evernote develops, but a third-party integration by Shamrock Records

Yeah, I thought it's pretty clear from the video that it's a third party app. :)

I'd like to see this kind of functionality in the Evernote app.

Sure, me too... But the functionality is already available in a third party app so you don't really have to wait.

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Yep. Just to be clear, this is not the app that Evernote develops, but a third-party integration by Shamrock Records

Yeah, I thought it's pretty clear from the video that it's a third party app. :)

I'd like to see this kind of functionality in the Evernote app.

Sure, me too... But the functionality is already available in a third party app so you don't really have to wait.

Unless you prefer not to use a third-party app.

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Sure, you can prefer not to use it, but that's not the same as not being able to, and I'm just glad that the functionality is available at all, regardless of whether it's official app or not.

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I think we have to view third-party apps as "disposable heroes" :-) or "situational". Makes the cost case a little worse, but not too bad. But at least it gets the function out there and represents a kind of "market research" for the official Evernote app.

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Unless you prefer not to use a third-party app.

I agree in that I now use several third party apps b/c it's annoying to have to use one app to do this & another app to do that.. Fastever, Fastever Snap, Egretlist, Clever. BUT...the EN iOS app is soooo darned slow (for me) that I only use the EN iOS app when I really, really have to. I even normally use Logmein from my iPhone to use EN from my home computer rather than use EN on my iPhone (which is still not Clever compatible, since it's on iOS 5.0). SO....For *me*, a crucial iOS improvement would be to make it work more expeditiously on iOS. IDK if my large database has any bearing on it, but I'm guessing it might. Stacks & image editing definitely take a backseat, IMO. Anyway, the third party apps are what allow me to continue to use EN on my iPhone & iPad.

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I think we have to view third-party apps as "disposable heroes" :-) or "situational". Makes the cost case a little worse, but not too bad. But at least it gets the function out there and represents a kind of "market research" for the official Evernote app.

Amen to that.

Let's hope that's what they are doing. That and reading these forums.

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I think we have to view third-party apps as "disposable heroes" :-) or "situational". Makes the cost case a little worse, but not too bad. But at least it gets the function out there and represents a kind of "market research" for the official Evernote app.

Amen to that.

Let's hope that's what they are doing. That and reading these forums.

Please do not double-post. I have deleted your post in this thread. Here is a link to the post you made in another thread on data loss.

As suggested there, please contact support. I would also recommend posting your ticket number here (or in the other thread) along with a report back on what Customer Support says. This will be a lot of help to users who might encounter similar issues again in the future.

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Going back to the thread topic, IMHO Any limit isn't good enough. While I don't care about Notebooks all that much, I could see myself running out of 100,000 Notes or 10,000 Tags in somewhat near future since I've added more than 10,000 notes over the period of just past 6 months. Hitting a limit wouldn't be very convenient at all.

I would really prefer a simply limitless account, no limit - one problem less.

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Going back to the thread topic, IMHO Any limit isn't good enough. While I don't care about Notebooks all that much, I could see myself running out of 100,000 Notes or 10,000 Tags in somewhat near future since I've added more than 10,000 notes over the period of just past 6 months. Hitting a limit wouldn't be very convenient at all.

I would really prefer a simply limitless account, no limit - one problem less.

One problem less for you, but potentially lots more for Evernote :)

Over the years they have increased the number and size of different things - I'm sure number of notes will also rise again, but whether it ever becomes limitless is I think a lot less likely.

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Yeah, but what's the point of the limit? I mean when you can have unlimited amount of accounts? And they get like... millions of new users all the time...

I can create additional account and share notes from old account with myself. Same amount of data for Evernote to deal with, except now it's just spread over different accounts. Doesn't make much sense to me.

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It's not just about space though. It's also about the data model, about how the clients interact with the service, how effective search is etc...

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True, but I'm still not convinced that there has to be a limit. :)

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While I appreciate your dedication at keeping the forum "clean", there was a reason why I wanted to add the information in this particular topic. Being as the reason I was moving notes around in the first place was to work with the limit of Evernote of 250, the troubles I encountered trying to do so ( hundreds of notes getting moved to the trash bin after syncing ) are a direct consequence . Furthermore, aside from warning other users of that possible bug, I want to make sure that whatever glitch in the EN system that I think has to do with syncing , doesn't go unnoticed.

I have never been able to get any kind of real help from all the service requests I have submitted, they always seem to suggest I reinstall EN, and I really do not think the problem is there. There is something really strange going on when synching occurs, notes get moved around, changes get lost etc. And I have already pointed out that the way EN handles versions with synching means that you cant even perform a personal backup since when you would try to restore your notebooks from your backup , EN would change all your notes to match the servers version ....

EN is a great program but right now, I'm starting to think it's almost better to use it completely offline and backup your own data because I really do not trust the way it handles versions between the server, your computer and any other device, and it doesn't let you select a Master, it just decides which version is the right one and changes all the others to match it. In theory this is great if it works but that not what I am experimenting . What's really annoying is that I never had any of those problems until I hit the 250 limit , then all sorts of errors started showing up so there is definitely something they have to fix there and I'm afraid they are too busy trying to design a family app to pay attention to this problem. I have asked countless times REAL and PRECISE information about how this works so I can avoid any errors and I always get very vague and useless answers....

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While I appreciate your dedication at keeping the forum "clean", there was a reason why I wanted to add the information in this particular topic. Being as the reason I was moving notes around in the first place was to work with the limit of Evernote of 250, the troubles I encountered trying to do so ( hundreds of notes getting moved to the trash bin after syncing ) are a direct consequence . Furthermore, aside from warning other users of that possible bug, I want to make sure that whatever glitch in the EN system that I think has to do with syncing , doesn't go unnoticed.

I have never been able to get any kind of real help from all the service requests I have submitted, they always seem to suggest I reinstall EN, and I really do not think the problem is there. There is something really strange going on when synching occurs, notes get moved around, changes get lost etc. And I have already pointed out that the way EN handles versions with synching means that you cant even perform a personal backup since when you would try to restore your notebooks from your backup , EN would change all your notes to match the servers version ....

EN is a great program but right now, I'm starting to think it's almost better to use it completely offline and backup your own data because I really do not trust the way it handles versions between the server, your computer and any other device, and it doesn't let you select a Master, it just decides which version is the right one and changes all the others to match it. In theory this is great if it works but that not what I am experimenting . What's really annoying is that I never had any of those problems until I hit the 250 limit , then all sorts of errors started showing up so there is definitely something they have to fix there and I'm afraid they are too busy trying to design a family app to pay attention to this problem. I have asked countless times REAL and PRECISE information about how this works so I can avoid any errors and I always get very vague and useless answers....

Lpr, with all due respect, several (very fluent in Evernote) users spent a lot of their free time trying to help you with your problem. You repeatedly overlooked or ignored their advice and chose to instead focus on what you can't do in EN rather than finding a solution to your problem. You seem to be continuing that "tradition" with EN support ("I have never been able to get any kind of real help from all the service requests I have submitted, they always seem to suggest I reinstall EN, and I really do not think the problem is there.") & seem to think you know more than the developers do. The biggest reason the devs want you to be using the most current version is to have a baseline - they know that your problem is not due to a bug that has subsequently been fixed. IME, most (all?) devs (regardless of the software) will first tell you to be sure you're using the most current version of their software. In fact, I received a reply from a trouble ticket for another app I'm trying to use (Diskaid) and the first things they say is to make sure I'm using current versions of my OS & their software.

Contrary to what you say here, you CAN restore from backups. ((I pointed this out to you in another thread two days ago along with DETAILED instructions on how to work around this). But sometimes, when someone has been dinking around trying to fix something, the way to restore notes may differ from one case to another. IOW, restoring from a backup will differ if nothing has been added since the backup vs a weeks worth of work done since the backup. This has always been the way of restores, in my 35+ years of being in IT.

Also contrary to what you say here, you have been given very detailed replies to your posts on the board.

However, you've posted your thoughts & opinions & that's fine. But repeatedly posting this (mis)information is not helpful to anyone.

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@May speculating: The point of the limit MIGHT be a 1-byte field (shame if so), scalability (quite possible), or just plain keeping people sane (good luck) :-) or any darned thing. A good question to ask.

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True, but I'm still not convinced that there has to be a limit. :)

If computing were mathematics, you would be essentially correct, however, computing is the art and practice of bounded mathematics.

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. Look at the USA election results a few days ago.

It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "Why it's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "It's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

I agree. I'd prefer to have everything unlimited, and I've asked for it in the past, but we do live in a world of limited resources: human, financial, bandwidth, etc. 250 seems like a small limit, especially if you have a bunch of shared notebooks. But, maybe that's what Evernote needs to do in order to best allocate their resources. As a user with one main notebook (a handful of shared ones for certain projects), nearly 10,000 notes, and no chance of hitting the limit in the next few centuries, I am not especially passionate about removing this limit :)

If you work within the parameters of the service, organize around Evernote's strengths, and make use of tags (yes, I know some people have a totally understandable aversion to them) then the limits are irrelevant to most use cases.

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. Look at the USA election results a few days ago.

It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "Why it's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

It doesn't have to be free, I actually wouldn't mind paying more. Any option is better than no option at all.

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. Look at the USA election results a few days ago.

It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "Why it's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

It doesn't have to be free, I actually wouldn't mind paying more

Good point. 500 notebooks for premium members might generate some more interest in premium membership :)

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Careful what you ask for. I do Performance for a living (which nails the question of WHICH Martin Packer I am). :-) You might find >250 (or >500) or (>1000) the whole thing performs horribly, is unnavigable, or any darned thing.

Let's just await someone from Evernote's viewpoint. Unless we think we've waited long enough. :-)

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. Look at the USA election results a few days ago.

It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "Why it's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

It doesn't have to be free, I actually wouldn't mind paying more

Good point. 500 notebooks for premium members might generate some more interest in premium membership :)

500 notebooks? I can't imagine using more than 10 myself...but yes...Evernote should look at it if that's what people are requesting.

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While I appreciate your dedication at keeping the forum "clean", there was a reason why I wanted to add the information in this particular topic. Being as the reason I was moving notes around in the first place was to work with the limit of Evernote of 250, the troubles I encountered trying to do so ( hundreds of notes getting moved to the trash bin after syncing ) are a direct consequence . Furthermore, aside from warning other users of that possible bug, I want to make sure that whatever glitch in the EN system that I think has to do with syncing , doesn't go unnoticed.

I have never been able to get any kind of real help from all the service requests I have submitted, they always seem to suggest I reinstall EN, and I really do not think the problem is there. There is something really strange going on when synching occurs, notes get moved around, changes get lost etc. And I have already pointed out that the way EN handles versions with synching means that you cant even perform a personal backup since when you would try to restore your notebooks from your backup , EN would change all your notes to match the servers version ....

EN is a great program but right now, I'm starting to think it's almost better to use it completely offline and backup your own data because I really do not trust the way it handles versions between the server, your computer and any other device, and it doesn't let you select a Master, it just decides which version is the right one and changes all the others to match it. In theory this is great if it works but that not what I am experimenting . What's really annoying is that I never had any of those problems until I hit the 250 limit , then all sorts of errors started showing up so there is definitely something they have to fix there and I'm afraid they are too busy trying to design a family app to pay attention to this problem. I have asked countless times REAL and PRECISE information about how this works so I can avoid any errors and I always get very vague and useless answers....

Lpr, with all due respect, several (very fluent in Evernote) users spent a lot of their free time trying to help you with your problem. You repeatedly overlooked or ignored their advice and chose to instead focus on what you can't do in EN rather than finding a solution to your problem. You seem to be continuing that "tradition" with EN support ("I have never been able to get any kind of real help from all the service requests I have submitted, they always seem to suggest I reinstall EN, and I really do not think the problem is there.") & seem to think you know more than the developers do. The biggest reason the devs want you to be using the most current version is to have a baseline - they know that your problem is not due to a bug that has subsequently been fixed. IME, most (all?) devs (regardless of the software) will first tell you to be sure you're using the most current version of their software. In fact, I received a reply from a trouble ticket for another app I'm trying to use (Diskaid) and the first things they say is to make sure I'm using current versions of my OS & their software.

Contrary to what you say here, you CAN restore from backups. ((I pointed this out to you in another thread two days ago along with DETAILED instructions on how to work around this). But sometimes, when someone has been dinking around trying to fix something, the way to restore notes may differ from one case to another. IOW, restoring from a backup will differ if nothing has been added since the backup vs a weeks worth of work done since the backup. This has always been the way of restores, in my 35+ years of being in IT.

Also contrary to what you say here, you have been given very detailed replies to your posts on the board.

However, you've posted your thoughts & opinions & that's fine. But repeatedly posting this (mis)information is not helpful to anyone.

Maybe you should meditate on what people write a bit longer before feeling compelled to answer them rushing to EN's rescue. If you had, you might have noticed that I was following your own advice by reorganizing my whole EN to use tags more instead of notebooks to work within EN's limitations. You might also have thought of the possibility, as it is indeed the case, that I already had installed the latest version of the software when the problem arose ( I always install updates the moment they come out ) and so , getting as the sole and repeated problem solving trick from EN to update my software a bit of a letdown. Finally, you might also have noticed that I often do praise EN. I really do think it is a great program and use it everyday. But when the safety of my data is at risk , I do not take this lightly and forgive me if I make a point of using these forums to express concerns , raise issues and warn other users of possible problems.

Respectfully, The Misinformer.

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Good point. 500 notebooks for premium members might generate some more interest in premium membership :)

Incremental, at best, in my opinion. And It's dead certain that Evernote already has the stats on customer notebook usage.

Look, if the 250 number was just arbitrary, and if changing it were as easy as just setting a number somewhere, without some significant impact on performance and/or storage, do you think that they wouldn't have done it by now?

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Good point. 500 notebooks for premium members might generate some more interest in premium membership :)

Incremental, at best, in my opinion. And It's dead certain that Evernote already has the stats on customer notebook usage.

Look, if the 250 number was just arbitrary, and if changing it were as easy as just setting a number somewhere, without some significant impact on performance and/or storage, do you think that they wouldn't have done it by now?

All the limits are arbitrary :)

But, of course, there is the question of why they imposed the limits. The developers probably would not do something like this unless they had a reason, otherwise, as you said, they would not have done it at all. It's fine to urge Evernote to increase the notebook limit, but it is worth asking if it is worth it, given the tools already available.

As users, I think it is best to ask ourselves what we want to do with notebooks, and if it turns out that tags will actually accomplish the same task (most cases), then I'd recommend just switching to tags, because Evernote is designed around them, and you'll be unlikely to hit the 10,000 tag limit anytime soon.

With the exception of sharing, I haven't seen a convincing case yet for someone to have hundreds of notebooks.

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. Look at the USA election results a few days ago.

It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "Why it's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

It doesn't have to be free, I actually wouldn't mind paying more. Any option is better than no option at all.

And that is exactly what I fear.

I have seen this happen to other software companies. They acquiesce to the users' demands for more software bloat, find it costs a boatload more money than they expected, raise the price, and end up pricing themselves out of the market and eventually go out of business.

Evernote had a good concept, but with all the bells and whistles they are adding... well as Yogi Berra would say, it feels like deja vu all over again.

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Look, if the 250 number was just arbitrary, and if changing it were as easy as just setting a number somewhere, without some significant impact on performance and/or storage, do you think that they wouldn't have done it by now?

Absolutely agree. I'm guessing there is some other, non-minor reason. But yet again, it's really not that big of a deal, IMO. I've yet to see a good argument where the 250 notebooks truly is a limiting factor.

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Maybe the original (apparently lower) was to make people think about whether notebooks were good organisational practice. And then someone persuaded Evernote to up the limit somehow, diluting the message.

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. Look at the USA election results a few days ago.

It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "Why it's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

It doesn't have to be free, I actually wouldn't mind paying more. Any option is better than no option at all.

And that is exactly what I fear.

I have seen this happen to other software companies. They acquiesce to the users' demands for more software bloat, find it costs a boatload more money than they expected, raise the price, and end up pricing themselves out of the market and eventually go out of business.

Evernote had a good concept, but with all the bells and whistles they are adding... well as Yogi Berra would say, it feels like deja vu all over again.

There are also successful companies that provide limitless amount of data, e.g. YouTube, yeah they're much bigger though.

But I'm not sure if there are any limits in similar apps like OneNote or SimpleNote even.

In my view a 100,000 Note Limit doesn't make much sense for a hundred year company when I can make 20,000 notes per year. The account might last me only 5 years this way instead of 100.

I also don't think that many people would actually take advantage of limitless amount of Notes so it's unlikely to cause feature bloat or huge issues for Evernote, but who knows.

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People always ask for no limits and no restrictions on their stuff. Look at the USA election results a few days ago.

It is human nature.

It is also human nature to forget about the unseen costs that must be borne by the young start-up companies.

Costs? "Why it's just electronic data bits floating around the cloud. That should be free to the consumer."

But is all this stuff free?

http://goo.gl/T3gkd

I think not.

It doesn't have to be free, I actually wouldn't mind paying more. Any option is better than no option at all.

And that is exactly what I fear.

I have seen this happen to other software companies. They acquiesce to the users' demands for more software bloat, find it costs a boatload more money than they expected, raise the price, and end up pricing themselves out of the market and eventually go out of business.

Evernote had a good concept, but with all the bells and whistles they are adding... well as Yogi Berra would say, it feels like deja vu all over again.

There are also successful companies that provide limitless amount of data, e.g. YouTube.

I'm not sure if there are any limits in similar apps like OneNote or SimpleNote even.

In my view a 100,000 Note Limit doesn't make much sense for a hundred year company when I can make 20,000 notes per year. The account might last me only 5 years this way instead of 100.

I also don't think that many people would actually take advantage of limitless amount of Notes so it's unlikely to cause feature bloat or huge issues for Evernote, but who knows.

I also see a problem with a 100 year company and a 100,000 note limit, but I do think making it unlimited would cause another headache when everyone sets up their emails to forward everything into Evernote -- I think 20,000 a year for emails alone is entirely conceivable. I imagine 200,000 or 300,000 notes impacts database performance considerably.

The size of the database also matters. At some point (actually, earlier this year for me) the database outstrips the ability for your home computer to hold it. Without offline/online notebooks, the entire system breaks down (as it did for me in August). Let's say they do plan to have offline/online notebooks (Phil Libin has called it inevitable). Then, we have people uploading a couple of gigabytes or more a month.

Add the massive databases together with the massive number of notes, and you get a disaster. Evernote cannot deliver on its promise. So, for the moment, we have a limit on the number of notes and a limit on the size of each note. They will increase these as they become capable of effectively handling the new amounts.

At least, that seems like a plausible theory to me. I have no actual knowledge of the matter :)

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I do think making it unlimited would cause another headache when everyone sets up their emails to forward everything into Evernote. I think 20,000 a year for emails alone is entirely conceivable

Btw I don't forward my emails to Evernote unless it's something important, otherwise there's no real reason to.

Lots of my Notes are pictures and videos that I personally take which is a lot more important for me to **remember** compared to random emails and it seems like a perfect use case for Evernote, yet it kinda doesn't really support it...

I mean when you want to actually get close to remembering everything, it's kind of not going to actually work well :)

New Evernote slogan "remeber everything... but not really... because there's a limit"

Or maybe "remeber everything... And then forget everything"

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I do think making it unlimited would cause another headache when everyone sets up their emails to forward everything into Evernote. I think 20,000 a year for emails alone is entirely conceivable

Btw I don't forward my emails to Evernote unless it's something important, otherwise there's no real reason to.

Lots of my Notes are pictures and videos that I personally take which is a lot more important for me to **remember** compared to random emails and it seems like a perfect use case for Evernote, yet it kinda doesn't really support it...

I mean when you want to actually get close to remembering everything, it's kind of not going to actually work well :)

New Evernote slogan "remeber everything... but not really... because there's a limit" lol

I've re-evaluated my system as well so that I only put noteworthy or notable stuff into my account ().

As for "remember everything," we know that is more aspirational than operational. Gordon Bell's account would probably occupy the entire Evernote server room, and there would be no room for the other 40 million of us :)

But, it is a goal that I find pretty inspiring -- an platform to help you remember everything, and one to make you smarter.

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As for "remember everything," we know that is more aspirational than operational.

I know, I was just kidding. I don't need to remember EVERYTHING either, but it'd be be nice to at least keep all of my important stuff in Evernote.

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I can hardly see the use of forwarding ALL my mail to EN. In any case, if people feel like putting tons of stuff in their EN and fill up their hard drive that's really their prerogative. As I pointed out before, everyone uses evernote differently. Some might have tens of thousands notes of only text which would amount to very light total data and others use it mainly for photos or videos. If EN is to be a 100 years company they should really take note that people will use their program for different things. Not all of us collect recipes and plan trips to India. I think EN will survive if it understands that what users really want is flexibility and the power to use the features they way they want it, not the way some market research guy thinks is the right way in order to attack the masses.

I was really enthusiastic about EN 5 when it came out and wrote really good things about it in here, but probably too soon, because I was tricked by it's friendly user interface. I really care a lot about design generally and I do think it's a good thing EN is putting energy into it but I'm really afraid of what's to come. Now that I have used it more, I find the new interface really poorly designed, it takes me a lot more time to find notes then before, things are more confusing and less clear and neat. It might look more appealing to the mass with the Map feature and the pop looking modern design but it's a trade down in terms of usability in my opinion. The main thing I would really like to see come back is the sidebar which is horrible in EN 5 and worked just fine in previous versions.

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I also see a problem with a 100 year company and a 100,000 note limit,

Me too. Here's what Heather posted last year.

We actually have had a few people hit 100,000 notes already. That's why we instituted our cap on how many emails you can send into your account per day ;)

At that point, you need to prune down your account because the entire thing becomes read-or-delete-only.

Personally, I've already created my (first?) "archive" account. I have "shared" it to my main account. At this point in time, the archive account only contains notes from my last EN 3.1 (Windows) backup & my last EN 3.5 (Windows) backup, since I failed to confirm my notes were all migrated correctly over to the newer versions. (When moving from 3.1 to 3.5 & from 3.5 to 4.x, there were some database changes, so the app had to actually create a new database on the hard drive & pull the notes in from the prior database.) So at this time, the archive account should really be dups of notes in my main account.

When I start getting nearer to the 100,000 limit (if it's still in play), I will start pruning my notes & exporting them to ENEX, then importing the ENEX file to the archive account. Since the Windows client & Clever both allow you to quickly/easily access notes shared to you, this is a bit more of a palatable option than it was previously. Of course, this won't work for those who have a lot of local/non-sync'd notes since you can only share notes/notebooks that live on the EN servers. But I also guess people who primarily use EN for non-sync'd notes are in the minority. (And I am not in that group either. My local/non-sync'd notes are only a small portion of my notes.)

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Yeah, personally I'm just going to max out my current account and then start a new one from scratch and also share my old account with myself. I also keep my Tags organised in a separate app (mind map) so Im not going to lose any organisational structure.

And also if they make it possible to search across both personal and shared notebooks on IOS - then im not going to lose anything at all, it's going to be pretty much exactly the same thing as limitless account. So it's another reason why the limitation is kind of pointless, I.e. in practice you can kinda cheat the system anyway.

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And also if they make it possible to search across both personal and shared notebooks on IOS - then im not going to lose anything at all, it's going to be pretty much exactly the same thing as limitless account. So it's another reason why the limitation is kind of pointless, I.e. in practice you can kinda cheat the system anyway.

Much like the tagging (rather than sub notebooks) system, I'm wondering if the initial EN dev team was just wicked smart with a multi-level plan. I don't know.

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I'm starting to wonder if the initial EN dev team was just wicked smart with a plan.

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I'm starting to wonder if the initial EN dev team was just wicked smart with a plan.��I don't know.

Do you mean the initial Russian developers, I.e. Stepan Pachikov and his team who used to develop some cool stuff for the very first tablet computer back in the late 80s early 90s?

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case since they were quite ahead of their time.

Yup. IIRC, they first did the image OCR thing? So maybe the grand plan was to have tags vs sub-things (b/c it would scale & cross platform better. And, IMO is really a better option once one starts thinking 'outside the box'). And if/when someone exceeds the X number of notes, by that time they'd have notebook sharing/searching in play. I just don't know. But it kind of makes sense, in a way. If there's a viable, limiting factor to the number of notes you can have in an account, then kind of "daisy chain" them together, if/when any user gets that many notes. Or maybe it's just my Friday afternoon ponderings gone astray. :lol:

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I just looked in my Evernotes & I guess Stepan Pachikov didn't do the image OCR'ing but rather the handwriting OCR'ing. Per my Evernote wrt the history of Evernote (the clip is dated 6/23/10 in my Evernote):

" The process involves multiple steps. You can use Evernote to clip out anything — headlines, text, pictures, handwritten notes, take voice notes, or save photos. You can add categories or put the clippings into notebooks. Then Evernote indexes the data and you can search on anything via keyword, tags, notebooks or other categories. The search results show you everything associated with certain topics.

The company is hitting its stride now, but it wasn’t easy. It was founded in 2005 by Stepan Pachikov, an Azerbiijan-born entrepreneur who founded a number of Russian software companies. He developed the necessary image recognition and processing technologies to make the service work quickly. The vision of creating a memory aid was always the same, but Libin joined in mid-2007 and helped the company do a major relaunch.

The free version launched in June, 2008. The number of users grew gradually and organically. There was no built-in sharing function in the software that would have made it inherently viral. The app was simply useful and users shared it with their friends.

The company expanded it to the iPhone, Mac, Windows PC, the web, and Android phones. About 60 percent of the audience is in the U.S. About 40 percent is overseas, with a large markte in Japan. Now the audience is 2.7 million users, with 7,000 added each day. The number of premium subscribers was 50,000 as of a couple of months ago. That was 1.8 percent of total users, and it was 6 percent of the active users (who used it in the last month).

Libin dove into details of one of the statistical groups, known as a cohort. He noted that 31,334 users signed up for the service in March, 2008. Of those, 50 percent stopped using it in the first month. Then the number of users dropped until about 11,000 of the 31,334 users became regular users coming back every month."

FWIW, the link (mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/03/26/freemium-summit-evernote-shares-the-insider-secrets-of-free-apps/) appears to now be dead & is a testament to using Evernote! :P

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"the genesis of Evernote is tied in with the Apple Newton - the innovative, but ultimately ahead of its time, Personal Digital Assistant (PDA) from Apple from the late 80's to 90's."

Kinda ironic that Evernote is the worst on iOS at the moment though...

Here is a quote from Phil Libin:

"After Stepan sold that company to SGI [in 1997] and spent a few years there, he and his core team of Russian and Russian-American R&D folks - researchers and technologists - started Evernote in 2005. They started it with this idea of giving everyone a better brain, giving everyone a perfect memory. And they spent a few years working on the technology. There wasn't really a product [at that time], but there was a whole bunch of really interesting back end tech around image recognition and things like that."

http://readwrite.com/2010/11/10/the_path_from_apple_newton_to_evernote

Would be nice if Evernote actually handled photos properly, I mean at this point you can't even import photos into Evernote and retain their native metadata like date and location (even though date could be added via filename renaming workaround).

Also facial recognition would make a hell of a lot of sense in Evernote as well IMHO. In my view it's even more important than text recognition, because, quite frankly, I rarely (if at all) find myself searching for text in images, even though it's a nice feature.

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As for the notebooks they aren't actually necessary at all but they are still usefull IMHO because each Note can have only a single Notebook which is actually an advantage in some cases, like, for example, when you want to organise the "essence" of things as either "this OR that".

So Notebooks like "inbox" and "processed" are still more convenient than Tags because each Note can only be either organised or unorganised, it can't be both and you don't need Tags for this. And it's easier to move Notes between Notebooks(a single step) than applying and removing Tags(2 steps).

Even though, yeah, you could do everything with just Tags, or apply a "processed" Tag to all organised Notes and use a saved search "-tag:processed" as your inbox. It's just not as straightforward, considering Evernote UI design.

In Clever you could do this easily though, since the menu panel is fully customisable, you could just pin this "inbox" saved search at the top of everything and hide notebooks completely.

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2 Notebooks would be enough for me, really. As long as I could share Tags and have offline Tags.

I think "Notebooks" is actually a poor name for this feature because it kinda misleads people into thinking that this is THE way they should organise Notes. Which isn't actually the case in Evernote.

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There's nothing misleading about the term "Notebook". It is what it is, a convenient way to partition your notes, just like with physical notebooks. But categorization is a different topic; tags let you categorize across your note collection, regardless of notebook.

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It's not misleading for you, but I bet it is misleading for new users.

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