(Archived) HELP: storing files in Evernote

[everester 0]

Hi,

 

So far I have a been storing a project-related documents (Word,Excel, etc) in a per project

sub-folders of MyDocuments folder. 

 

As I have been using Evernote to organize my notes for some time, I now want to extend its use beyond

the text notes and start storing files in it. 

 

But with the files I am facing a dilemma - should I need to store a duplicate of the file in the file system

(file tree), or simply I simply copy the file to the Evernote and let it live only there. 

 

Also, as I first would need to save the file to some folder anyway (and the obvious choice would be 

a project folder) and only after that I can copy (drag and drop via mouse) the file to Evernote. Then - should I delete the file from the file system to avoid the duplication and ambiguousness?

 

Is there a better way, to avoid saving the files into the intermediary location and save the the file straight to Evernote? 

 

Also, I noticed - that after the file is drag'n'droped to the note, it appears as icon + name + size + timestamp.

Funny thing is that the timestamp has not been updated since the addition of the file, even though 

the file has been opened / changed / saved many times. 

 

Thank you.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

But with the files I am facing a dilemma - should I need to store a duplicate of the file in the file system

(file tree), or simply I simply copy the file to the Evernote and let it live only there. 

 

I prefer the "not having all my eggs in one basket approach" so I keep copies on my hard drive (which gets backed up to Amazon via Jungle Disk) as well as in Evernote.

 

Also, I noticed - that after the file is drag'n'droped to the note, it appears as icon + name + size + timestamp.

Funny thing is that the timestamp has not been updated since the addition of the file, even though

the file has been opened / changed / saved many times.

 

Evernote does not sync file changes, say like Dropbox. If you change the file on your hard drive, the one in Evernote remains the same. 

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

If you want to change the file within Evernote, just double click on it. The Word/Excel/etc will be invoked (if it's not already) & the file opened.

[everester 0]

Thank you.

But what do you mean the Evernote does not sync files.

If i open the file with double click and save it will the changes be stored in evernote? So far it seems like evernote will not automatically pickup the changes. It does not even update the size of "embedded file" (what we can see in the note). That is really frustrating as i have lost a half an hour worth of changes on quite a big document ;-(

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Thank you.

But what do you mean the Evernote does not sync files.

If i open the file with double click and save it will the changes be stored in evernote? So far it seems like evernote will not automatically pickup the changes. It does not even update the size of "embedded file" (what we can see in the note). That is really frustrating as i have lost a half an hour worth of changes on quite a big document ;-(

When you put a file into an EN note, a copy of the file is added to the note. Unless you delete the original file from your hard drive, you now have two copies of the file. The one on your hard drive & the one in the EN note. If you change the one on your hard drive, EN does not sync those changes to the copy in the EN note. If you want the modified file in EN, you will need to "re-add" it to EN either in the original note or a new note.

OTOH, if you double click the file attachment in an EN note & change that file, the modified file will be sync'd to the EN servers. But the copy on your hard drive will remain unchanged, of course.

[everester 0]

Thank you.

But what do you mean the Evernote does not sync files.

If i open the file with double click and save it will the changes be stored in evernote? So far it seems like evernote will not automatically pickup the changes. It does not even update the size of "embedded file" (what we can see in the note). That is really frustrating as i have lost a half an hour worth of changes on quite a big document ;-(

When you put a file into an EN note, a copy of the file is added to the note. Unless you delete the original file from your hard drive, you now have two copies of the file. The one on your hard drive & the one in the EN note. If you change the one on your hard drive, EN does not sync those changes to the copy in the EN note. If you want the modified file in EN, you will need to "re-add" it to EN either in the original note or a new note.

OTOH, if you double click the file attachment in an EN note & change that file, the modified file will be sync'd to the EN servers. But the copy on your hard drive will remain unchanged, of course.

 

Thanks - double clicking on the file attachment seems to work! Great. 

But even after I opened the file (via double click), modified it and saved it - the EN has not updated the attachment attributes (still says it was created two days ago and the file size it is the same as at the time the file was added) ... puzzling ... 

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

FYI, in the past (~a year or two ago), I discovered "issues" with modifying the file in the Evernote note.  To be specific, I had an Excel file that I would regularly update.  But I noticed if I opened the Excel file by double clicking the attachment in the Evernote note & left the Excel file open for several hours, the current copy may not be updated to my note.  It did seem if I quickly opened the file, made my changes & saved/exited, things were ok.  But for the most part, I'd abandoned putting frequently edited files in Evernote for this reason.  Or files that I may leave open for long periods of time.  I've recently revisited this issue & find it still problematic.  I did "lose" an Excel attachment today that was there yesterday.  Fortunately, I was able to recover it from the attachments folder in my Evernote folder.  But at this point, I'd have to say I remain hesitant to store frequently modified attachments in EN.  Instead, I would rather modify the copy on my hard drive & then add that to Evernote.  But the copy on my hard drive is my "source of all truths" while the versions in EN are considered versioning files.  IE, the way the file was at a certain date/time. 

 

FYI: I've submitted my info about the "lost" Excel file to EN support for their information. 

[Spencey 3]

I too was finding I am still using Dropbox for saving MS files and PDFs when really I want to group them all together in EN with the webclips I have found EN soooo good at collating.  Frustrating there is no one step, 'right click/save as' approach to EN.......

[TechBarber 100]

 

But with the files I am facing a dilemma - should I need to store a duplicate of the file in the file system

(file tree), or simply I simply copy the file to the Evernote and let it live only there. 

 

I prefer the "not having all my eggs in one basket approach" so I keep copies on my hard drive (which gets backed up to Amazon via Jungle Disk) as well as in Evernote

 

Burgers, I'm not going to say I disagree - just that I have a different point of view. 

 

My theory - and this applies to more than just Evernote, is why complicate things by adding extra steps or layers of complexity? I have a few documents that I save in Evernote (e.g. my monthly budget), and it lives there and nowhere else. In two years of storing it there I've never had any trouble opening the file and it always updates just fine because I open the file within Evernote. It's also backed up on my work computer every night (at midnight) and at home via Time Machine, so if EN did go offline for a bit I still have my file. 

 

I can see your logic for storing the extra file and I'm certainly not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that for me, the fewer steps there are, the less chance of me ***** something up.

 

If I tried to keep a copy of a file on my computer as well as in EN, I'd have four versions of every file after two weeks.

 

...and they'd all be 6 days out of date. LOL 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

I'm somewhat different. I prefer to have everything outside of Evernote for lots of reasons (http://www.christopher-mayo.com/?p=127). It's not for everyone, and your mileage may vary, but it works for me. Time Machine, Backups, and backups of backups in three different physical locations ensure that nothing gets lost or damaged.

Sure, it isn't ideal, but until we get selective sync, it's the way it will have to be for me. In fact, even if we had selective sync, I'd probably still do everything exactly the same, but just put another copy of the PDFs into Evernote for convenience (in a separate notebook not to be downloaded for offline or desktop use). My searches would still turn up what I want to see, but instead of reaching into my external hard drive or Dropbox for the original files (on the occasions when I need them) I could look in Evernote. It would be more convenient, but it isn't something I am losing any sleep over right now.

[jbenson2 2,147]

This scalability problem is being mentioned more and more often on the forum.

 

The Evernote marketing theme needs an update.

Capture anything... Access anywhere... Find things fast... Not...
 

[GrumpyMonkey 4,319]

This scalability problem is being mentioned more and more often on the forum.

 

The Evernote marketing theme needs an update.

Capture anything... Access anywhere... Find things fast... Not...

Depending on their needs, users might have to adapt their workflows to the app that is, not the app we all want it to be, because these issues take time to work out properly. Of course, there will be users (like I used to be) who will dump everything willy nilly into Evernote and run their account into the ground (as I did), but hopefully, with a little foresight (something I lacked) many of the hurdles can be overcome.That's why we have the forums

If you textify things, it mitigates the problems. If you don't, and you want to look elsewhere, then there really aren't that many apps out there that can handle a lot of data either. I would say Evernote is one of the best available, and on the Mac the structure of the database enables you to use other apps for searching as well (you'll have more options available if you textify things). It's far from perfect, to be sure, but it is quite workable, and the developers are working on solutions.

[jbenson2 2,147]

Of course, there will be users (like I used to be) who will dump everything willy nilly into Evernote...

 

That is what I thought a "2nd brain" was supposed to do.

If Evernote is having problems with only 5 years under its belt, the 100-year goal will be quite a stretch.

[ursula 42]

 

Thank you.

But what do you mean the Evernote does not sync files.

If i open the file with double click and save it will the changes be stored in evernote? So far it seems like evernote will not automatically pickup the changes. It does not even update the size of "embedded file" (what we can see in the note). That is really frustrating as i have lost a half an hour worth of changes on quite a big document ;-(

When you put a file into an EN note, a copy of the file is added to the note. Unless you delete the original file from your hard drive, you now have two copies of the file. The one on your hard drive & the one in the EN note. If you change the one on your hard drive, EN does not sync those changes to the copy in the EN note. If you want the modified file in EN, you will need to "re-add" it to EN either in the original note or a new note.

OTOH, if you double click the file attachment in an EN note & change that file, the modified file will be sync'd to the EN servers. But the copy on your hard drive will remain unchanged, of course.

 

Though you can store any type of file in EN, not all types of file attachments will sync back to EN servers. I dumped a lot of OmniOutliner and Voodoopad files, as well as other types, into my database before realizing this. If an attachment has to be opened by Archiver Utility, changes will not be saved to the attachment. 

[George Goodman 10]

As Ursula mentioned, EN doesn't properly handle Mac OS X "packages."  They appear upon retrieval from EN to be zip archives and even when renamed with the appropriate extension (e.g., ".oo3" for OmniOutliner 3.x) they're no longer openable by the appropriate app.

 

I'd really like it if EN handled packages appropriately, as it means that there are some things I can store with notes (e.g., a PDF of my OmniOutliner notes from a meeting) and some things I can't (e.g., the actual .oo3 file with the notes).  Dropbox used to have this issue, but somewhere along the way they fixed it.

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

Burgers, I'm not going to say I disagree - just that I have a different point of view.

My theory - and this applies to more than just Evernote, is why complicate things by adding extra steps or layers of complexity? I have a few documents that I save in Evernote (e.g. my monthly budget), and it lives there and nowhere else. In two years of storing it there I've never had any trouble opening the file and it always updates just fine because I open the file within Evernote. It's also backed up on my work computer every night (at midnight) and at home via Time Machine, so if EN did go offline for a bit I still have my file.

I can see your logic for storing the extra file and I'm certainly not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying that for me, the fewer steps there are, the less chance of me ***** something up.

If I tried to keep a copy of a file on my computer as well as in EN, I'd have four versions of every file after two weeks.

...and they'd all be 6 days out of date. LOL

Admittedly, my workflow is a bit anal/OC. But I don't see it as overly complicated or complex. I'd guess saving to my hard drive & copying to an import folder probably adds about 5-7 seconds to each document. (I also preview the document before this step, to insure the scan was a good one. But again, this adds only seconds to each scan & IMO falls under the category of "insurance". Nothing worse than thinking you have a scan of an important document only to find out it didn't scan properly & you need it & it's already been shredded!) My hard drives get backed up each night to Jungle Disk (my cloud backup of choice for my hard drives). My workflow stems from ~2.5 decades of thinking I have a good backup only to find out the verified backup tape will not read when I need it (HP Colorado Trakker circa 1996) or the hardware is not compatible with new computer (back in the parallel/serial port days pre-USB) or the software to restore is not supported on the new OS or the CD is scratched, etc, etc, etc.. I've run the gamut from backing up my personal/home computer from the aforementioned Colorado Trakker to Zip drives to Jag drives to CD to DVD & finally to the recent ~seven years of USB hard drives & clouds. So as much as I love & use Evernote & have confidence in them as a company, I simply don't want to have Evernote be the only repository for important information. I have to admit that a lot of notes I make in Evernote or screen caps exist only in Evernote simply b/c it's easy to create/edit them in EN & I'd have to manually do an export or print-to-PDF or screen-cap-saved-to-file to get them out, since they were generated in Evernote. As an inherently lazy person, I do not do that. But I DO backup my Evernote database regularly, so I've got that going for me.

As far as files being out of date, since I've been using scanners, digital cameras, MP3 players & digitizing home movies for over 15 years, a large majority of what I keep (and consider important) does not change. IE scans of documents, photos, home movies, music, etc. I just want to be able to get a copy if/when I need it regardless if my home computer is turned on or not or if I'm home or not or if I can access Evernote or Jungle Disk is up or not. This was useful for me yesterday. I was doing some personal business at the bank & needed a document I did not anticipate needing. I had my iPad but Evernote on iOS for my main Evernote account is unusable b/c my main account is so large. Clever is often helpful but it has its own issues. So I used Logmein on my iPad to connect to my home computer where I was able to send myself an email & attach the hard drive copy of the document I needed. I could have done basically the same thing by using Logmein to use EN on my desktop & email the document from Evernote. But I like having the various options. Plus, I've occasionally run into situations where a file gets munged & you don't realize it until it's backed up.  Another reason I like having a couple of copies of important things.  This just happened to me a couple of days ago.  My Neatreceipts database got munged.  A few days later, when I tried to go to a particular tab, it kept giving me "out of memory" errors.  I restored from my most recent backup & same thing.  I ended up uninstalling NR, reinstalling it (so the database on the hard drive was new & in a different location on the hard drive) & then restoring from my backup & everything was fine.  I know one must draw the line somewhere.  But I figure disk is cheap.  So between having a copy in EN & a copy on my hard drive & knowing both of those get backed up & both have versioning, I figure I'm pretty well covered.  If I lose something in spite of all that, then I guess them's the breaks.

 

IMO, when it comes to important stuff, redundancy is good & a girl can never be too rich, too thin or have too many backups.

Another phrase I use regarding my backup system is that over the decades, each time I've lost data, my backup system has improved.

[Bob Loper 7]

I tend to only store documents in Evernote that will not change (receipts, documentation, ect.).  For any documents I'm actively working on, I use an organized folder structure that is synced with google drive.  

 

As far as keeping a redundant copy.  Redundancy isn't bad, but I don't keep a separate copy on my hard drive outside of Evernote, for a few reasons:

 

1) A copy is stored on my local machine in Evernote

2) It is also stored on the Evernote server

3) Evernote has backups of their server

 

So, whether or not i'm online, I have access to my info AND if either Evernote totally dies OR my machine totally dies, I'm covered either way.

 

You can also check out the following blog post:

http://michaelhyatt.com/is-your-data-safe-in-evernote.html

 

 

~Bob

[everester 0]

Thank you Bob 

 

I am really interested in how did you organized folder structure for your active documents,

as I tried a few different structured and each time failed - it seemed to work originally, but later 

I realised that the structure was either hard to use (had to keep working with a documents from a different folder),

or too flat (all documents in the same folder) to have any structure. 

 

Also how do you know when to make document inactive and thus move it to EN for a storage? 

 

 

 

 

I tend to only store documents in Evernote that will not change (receipts, documentation, ect.).  For any documents I'm actively working on, I use an organized folder structure that is synced with google drive.  

 

As far as keeping a redundant copy.  Redundancy isn't bad, but I don't keep a separate copy on my hard drive outside of Evernote, for a few reasons:

 

1) A copy is stored on my local machine in Evernote

2) It is also stored on the Evernote server

3) Evernote has backups of their server

 

So, whether or not i'm online, I have access to my info AND if either Evernote totally dies OR my machine totally dies, I'm covered either way.

 

You can also check out the following blog post:

http://michaelhyatt.com/is-your-data-safe-in-evernote.html

 

 

~Bob

[BurgersNFries 2,407]

3) Evernote has backups of their server

Yes, I'm sure Evernote has backups of their servers. But Evernote's server backups aren't going to help you much.  Those backups are only useful to Evernote staff. 

 

The only thing you (or any Evernote user) can rely upon from Evernote is note history, which is taken once about every eight hours.  And, AFAIK, if a note is deleted (moved to trash) & the trash emptied on the EN servers, the note is gone from you forever, unless you have a backup of your EN database on a computer/device.  So let's say your Evernote note gets deleted, trash emptied & then sync'd.  You cannot get this note back from the Evernote servers.  Or say you add a file to Evernote & no longer have a copy on your hard drive.  And the file gets accidentally deleted from the note before EN makes a note history version of the note...again, you can no longer get this file from Evernote, unless you have a backup somewhere on one of your computers/devices. 

 

So having the only copy of something important in Evernote & relying upon Evernote's own "backups" in the event the file gets removed from the note, is not very reliable, IMO.