Jump to content
rtablada

mac Tab/Indent Support

Recommended Posts

Tab and indentation support is something that is terribly missing in Evernote for Mac (including the beta). It shocks me that tabs can be pasted in, synced from other devices and all, but alas, there is no way to create proper tabs in Evernote for mac.

It wouldn't be such a problem except that when you go to reduce the indentation for a line, you have to delete tons of spaces. For me this is a big flaw that needs resolution soon.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

In the new Mac beta we support indenting (not exactly Tabs). It's under Format > Text > Increase Indent or Decrease Indent

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

What I would really like is to create quick tables using the tab button, for example:

Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday

AM Red Blue Orange Pink White

PM Yellow Red Blue Orange Pink

But where everything lines up, basically a quick table created using the tab button.

Thanks again for all your work, enjoying the new beta.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

dlu/jackolicious, thank you for your swift reply. I am a keyboard shortcut fiend so this will work great! But might I suggest adding a button on the format bar for those less eager to search for the function. Also, it would calm those who have been wanting this function for a while.

Share this post


Link to post

In the new Mac beta we support indenting (not exactly Tabs). It's under Format > Text > Increase Indent or Decrease Indent

A toolbar button for this function would be helpful.

Share this post


Link to post

In the new Mac beta we support indenting (not exactly Tabs). It's under Format > Text > Increase Indent or Decrease Indent

A toolbar button for this function would be helpful.
Hi. The Mac team seems (from my perspective) to be on a tear against toolbar icons and colors these days, so I don't expect we will see it anytime soon. You never know, though. Our campaign to get backward / forward buttons back was successful :)

The shortcut key (SHIFT + CMD + } to increase indent and SHIFT + CMD + { to decrease it) is useful. Please note, however, that this is not the same as a tab. In .html terms I think it is a "blockquote." For most users, this is irrelevant information, but for others, it may be useful to know.

Share this post


Link to post

Just as additional Info for GERMAN users:

 

Here the identation is mapped to "[" "]" instead of "{" "}", so its

 

Shift + cmd + alt + 5      indentation level down
Shift + cmd + alt + 6      indentation level up

 

Spent some time figuring it out!

Share this post


Link to post

I agree with rtablada and davidanasco.  Evernote for Mac desperately needs tabs that can be set to the same position on each line of text, so that information lines up in a tabular form.

 

Come on Evernote.....please make a great product even greater!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I just updated to latest evernote.  Indent is pretty useless as it doesn't line up with tabs.  Indent indents about 6 or 7 characters...for the love of the universe, why!?  it would be nice if tab size and indent size were configurable.  Its behavior like this that sends me back to google docs or osx notes or even textedit.  that is all. thank you for reading.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

Agreed, tab support is useless, it's essentially moving over 5 spaces, not a real tab.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

There are no tabs in HTML (tabs are just whitespace; http://www-sul.stanford.edu/tools/tutorials/html2.0/whitespace.html), and typefaces are not always monospaced, so therefore traditional text tabbing is by definition problematic in a program like Evernote (which basically uses HTML as its underlying format). For most general cases, using the indent feature is the way to go. In the case where a user needs to emulate straight mono-spaced text, such as source code, I can see where having configurable tab sizes in spaces might be useful, and some configurable back-translation to tabbed-format on clipboard copy operations could also be helpful

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

There are no tabs in HTML (tabs are just whitespace; http://www-sul.stanford.edu/tools/tutorials/html2.0/whitespace.html), and typefaces are not always monospaced, so therefore traditional text tabbing is by definition problematic in a program like Evernote (which basically uses HTML as its underlying format). For most general cases, using the indent feature is the way to go. In the case where a user needs to emulate straight mono-spaced text, such as source code, I can see where having configurable tab sizes in spaces might be useful, and some configurable back-translation to tabbed-format on clipboard copy operations could also be helpful

 

So Evernote's chosen implementation technology is used as an excuse for why we shouldn't use a perfectly reasonable and widely-used formatting feature.

 

Notable that Google Docs, also an HTML-based system, totally nails tabbing, and works exactly how you'd expect, including with variable-width fonts.

 

Come on Evernote, less ground-up rewrites of the user interface, and more fixes to basic note editing functionality!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

There are no tabs in HTML (tabs are just whitespace; http://www-sul.stanford.edu/tools/tutorials/html2.0/whitespace.html), and typefaces are not always monospaced, so therefore traditional text tabbing is by definition problematic in a program like Evernote (which basically uses HTML as its underlying format). For most general cases, using the indent feature is the way to go. In the case where a user needs to emulate straight mono-spaced text, such as source code, I can see where having configurable tab sizes in spaces might be useful, and some configurable back-translation to tabbed-format on clipboard copy operations could also be helpful

 

So Evernote's chosen implementation technology is used as an excuse for why we shouldn't use a perfectly reasonable and widely-used formatting feature.

Tabs *are* problematic in HTML because they are simple whitespace. Anyone using HTML as a format has to work around it, as Evernote does.

 

Notable that Google Docs, also an HTML-based system, totally nails tabbing, and works exactly how you'd expect, including with variable-width fonts.

I gave that a shot. In about 2 minutes, without trying hard at all, I saw some strange behaviors. For example:

* Start a new line

* Insert a tab

* The line indents: there is no tab character there, and moreover, the line will now not unindent.

*Sometimes*, a tab character gets inserted, *sometimes* the line indents (and you can unindent), and *sometimes* the line indents and you cannot unindent. I couldn't really determine any rhyme or reason for why it behaves differently on pretty much identical input. I don't know the underlying format, so I can't tell what's going on, but I wouldn't exactly call that "totally nailing" tabs, and not at all what I'd expect (I expect less erratic behavior, for one).

Share this post


Link to post

 

Notable that Google Docs, also an HTML-based system, totally nails tabbing, and works exactly how you'd expect, including with variable-width fonts.

I gave that a shot. In about 2 minutes, without trying hard at all, I saw some strange behaviors. For example:

* Start a new line

* Insert a tab

* The line indents: there is no tab character there, and moreover, the line will now not unindent.

*Sometimes*, a tab character gets inserted, *sometimes* the line indents (and you can unindent), and *sometimes* the line indents and you cannot unindent. I couldn't really determine any rhyme or reason for why it behaves differently on pretty much identical input. I don't know the underlying format, so I can't tell what's going on, but I wouldn't exactly call that "totally nailing" tabs, and not at all what I'd expect (I expect less erratic behavior, for one).

 

 

I could not reproduce this behavior.  

 

Google docs indent shifts the document or section margin in exactly the same width as the tab size.  The cursor indicates I've tabbed in, and if I backspace, it shifts back the full tab width, not spaces like Evernote.  Google docs works exactly as I expect a word processor should do. Is evernote a online note pad(competes with icloud notes) or a word processor(competing with google docs)?  It should take a stand.

 

I agree @NeilDurant, the underlying technology should not be rationale for user experience and functionality.  

 

Personally, I'm fine if the tab just inserts spaces, but at very least have that line up with the indent!

Share this post


Link to post

I could not reproduce this behavior.

Just reporting what I experienced. I went back and tried again (and tried to pay better attention). I think if you just stick to characters and tabs and spaces (and one font), you'll probably be OK. If you start mixing in indents, then things get a little weird, which is what happened to me previously

 

Google docs indent shifts the document or section margin in exactly the same width as the tab size.  The cursor indicates I've tabbed in, and if I backspace, it shifts back the full tab width, not spaces like Evernote.  Google docs works exactly as I expect a word processor should do. Is evernote a online note pad(competes with icloud notes) or a word processor(competing with google docs)?  It should take a stand.

Make a stand? At what? What is a word processor? There's no Platonic ideal that exists -- I think you have a spectrum of implementations.  In general, Google Docs is more capable an word processor than the Evernote editor, but less than, say, Microsoft Word. Evernote's editor can do some measure of rich text editing, which, say, Notepad++ cannot (NP++ is a programmer's editor; I'm not a Mac user, so I can't speak to iCloud notes). And so on. Could Evernote be better? You bet -- we all hope for improvement, and I've never said anything different. I hope that it does, actually -- I deal in plain text a fair amount; right now it's not ideal.

 

I agree @NeilDurant, the underlying technology should not be rationale for user experience and functionality.

In theory, and as a goal, sure, but practicalities are often a barrier. Underlying technologies can present barriers to expressing certain desired results, and overcoming obstacles lead to cost/benefit decisions. Nobody likes to hear excuses (and I'm not making excuses for Evernote, since I don't actually know what's going on behind their doors), but the reality is that companies make these sorts of decisions all the time, and for good reason: if I commit to delivering X, then I can't deliver Y and Z.

 

Personally, I'm fine if the tab just inserts spaces, but at very least have that line up with the indent!

You know what? That wouldn't work in general, and doesn't in Google Docs, even with a monospace font. The width of a space character in an arbitrary font (typeface/size/styling combination) most likely doesn't divide evenly into the size of a tab/indent stop. A simple example in the forum editor: the following is formatted using Courier New size 12. The first line just has numbers. The second line has spaces preceding; the "67890" line up nicely. The third line has a indent, and I see the "67890" lined up at a point between the '6' and the '7' of the line above.

1234567890

     67890

67890

Share this post


Link to post

@aktive0: guess you didn't actually read what I wrote, did you? Or do you need pictures to aid comprehension?

Share this post


Link to post

I read everything you wrote.  My entire intent in posting here(and trust me I have more important things to do), was to let evernote know that a customer(me) is unhappy with behavior that exists elsewhere(and it appears i'm not alone).  take it for what you will.  

 

I will use evernote for short notes.  For documents that need proper formatting, I will go elsewhere.  I don't care about why evernote can't do something.  can it do it or not.  can someone else do it or not.  

 

If someone else comes along that has a nice interface like evernote and proper formatting like google docs, I will move to them.    Or, evernote could just implement it properly.  whichever. ok, i'm off to bigger and better things, see ya!

Edited by Jackolicious
Language

Share this post


Link to post

I have to agree with the users here, I really don't want to here we can't do that due to xyz. I would like Evernote to figure out a solution to the issue if possible, Evernote controls their own eco system, you guys can write what you want and add tags just for everynote to get the behavior the user expects.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

As a Mac user with a non-US keyboard, is there any way of fixing the shortcuts for indentation, either by making them locale-sensitive, or by making them configurable?

 

To explain:

With a Swedish keyboard, alt-9 generates ] and shift-alt-9 generates }.

Align Right has the shortcut alt-cmd-} which on a Swedish keyboard would correspond to alt-cmd-alt-shift-9, and Increase Indent similarly has the shortcut shift-cmd-] which would require me to press shift-cmd-alt-9.

The predictable result, of course, is that the only thing I can achieve is to change alignment, which I use a lot less than indentation.

Share this post


Link to post

@aktive0: guess you didn't actually read what I wrote, did you? Or do you need pictures to aid comprehension?

 

Hi Jeff and others.

 

Dear Evernote staff - we, your addicted users do not want to hear any pulp explanations on why the way you are trying to reinvent what is already invented is better. 

 

We just want to have the TAB button functioning just the same way it does any other app since the beginning of computers, no matter if its Word, Google Docs, Mail, Outlook or whatever. TAB has been invented in its way and any application that cannot implement its normal behavior ist just buggy - not better, not innovative nor anything. This is just a bug that pisses off all its users.

 

And if you want your users to support your product, just show a bit of attention and FIX what does not work properly. Cut the *****, just fix the bug.

 

Regards

Dariusz

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not sure if it helps any Mac users, but if you add an Application (evernote) specific shortcut to the Keyboard preferences, you get the functionality you need.

 

CMD+] didn't work for me, not CMD+[

 

But when I added them to Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts > App Shortcuts, then...

Select Evernote as the Application.  Add the Menu Title as, 'Increase Level Indent;, and the shortcut as CMD+] or CMD+[ for the opposite.

 

This workaround works for me.  And for a lot of the other inadequacies in evernote.  I use it for adding TeX and other symbolic or formatting that is lacking in evernote.

 

Note I copied this from this user - not my own idea:

https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/37364-keyboard-shortcut-for-changing-font-type/?p=341655

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/18/2013 at 12:23 PM, aktive0 said:

I just updated to latest evernote.  Indent is pretty useless as it doesn't line up with tabs.  Indent indents about 6 or 7 characters...for the love of the universe, why!?  it would be nice if tab size and indent size were configurable.  Its behavior like this that sends me back to google docs or osx notes or even textedit.  that is all. thank you for reading.

Had to log in just to like this...

Share this post


Link to post

For SPANISH users in an English keyboard try...

  • Increase indentation level = Shift + Command + Option + ]
  • Decrease indentation level = Shift + Command + Option + [

Share this post


Link to post

This isn't quite the same issue, but another problem I've recently noticed with "tabs" is that they seem to disappear if I make other edits to the note. I had a long note, mostly text, with paragraph indents (just indented with a tab key, which I know in Evernote is just a few spaces). I opened an attached picture in Preview to compress it, and did so - and in the note, all of the tabs disappeared. Which, alas, makes the note a lot less readable than it was. What had been a dozen or so paragraphs became a big block of text.

I suppose the "fix" is to go back to separate all paragraphs with blank lines rather than indents, but ... that's not what I like doing. I'm writing notes, not a website.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...