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Eric Van

windows Dear Evernote Letter

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Dear Evernote,

When I begin to write this letter, I know I'm going to leave you. I have been seriously looking back upon our relationship and getting very clear on what I need and desire out of a relationship.

The conclusion I have come to is that you STILL refuse to offer me a feature to create infinite sub-notebooks. We have talked about this for many years, and you insist that you can offer me tags to help, but you never know I can never ever create two sub-tags in different main tags using the same name. You told me every tag has an unique name, resulting in the inconvenience I have always been facing.

I clearly know that you feel so wronged, because you have already offered a so-called "stack" feature. Yet I have to admit that it looks like to offer me a chance to create sub-notebooks, while the fact is that I can only create one sub-notebook in a stack. When I try to create a sub-sub-notebook in the sub-notebook, I feel desperate, especially when I get to know that every notebook has an unique name, I realize how stupid I am.

This is not about whether you believe it's needed or not, it's all about that I need them.

Please forgive yourself, and me, for any 'mistakes' we made along the way... and remember that we both have grown immensely through being together... but the time has come to move on.

I wish you joy, I wish you happiness, I wish you heaven on earth. Please trust in yourself and the Universe enough to take some deep breaths, and start looking to find and create joy in your life. It is there... simply step out and claim it. But tonight I'll marry "Wiz", Dear Evernote.

Your love,

Eric

post-105911-0-02916200-1348988241_thumb. post-105911-0-31166400-1348988249_thumb. post-105911-0-73011000-1348988258_thumb.

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Dear Evernote,

When I begin to write this letter, I know I'm going to leave you. I have been seriously looking back upon our relationship and getting very clear on what I need and desire out of a relationship.

The conclusion I have come to is that you STILL refuse to offer me a function to create infinite sub-notebooks. We have talked about this for many years, and you insist that you can offer me tags to help, but you never know I can never ever create two sub-tags in different main tags within the same name. You told me every tag has an unique name, resulting in the inconvenience I have always been facing.

I clearly know that you feel so wronged, because you have already offer a so-called "stack" function. Yet I have to admit that it looks like to offer me to create sub-notebooks, while the fact is that I can only create one sub-notebook in a stack. When I try to create a sub-sub-notebook in the sub-notebook, I feel desperate, especially when I get to know that every notebook has an unique name, I realize how stupid I am.

This is not about whether you believe it's needed or not, it's all about that I need them.

Please forgive yourself, and me, for any 'mistakes' we made along the way... and remember that we both have grown immensely through being together... but the time has come to move on.

I wish you joy, I wish you happiness, I wish you heaven on earth. Please trust in yourself and the Universe enough to take some deep breaths, and start looking to find and create joy in your life. It is there... simply step out and claim it. But tonight I'll marry "Wiz", Dear Evernote.

Your love,

Eric

post-105911-0-02916200-1348988241_thumb. post-105911-0-31166400-1348988249_thumb. post-105911-0-73011000-1348988258_thumb.

I guess this is welcome to the forums, and goodbye as well. Too bad. This is quite funny.

Does "Wiz" = "Wiznotes"? Whatever you end up using, good luck with it, and I hope it works out for you. 50% of all note taking marriages end in divorce, so maybe we will see you around here again :)

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Well, errr... When a woman says she will leave, mostly she just wants the man to keep her around.

Actually, I'm here not asking whether Evernote Team will add these features or not; instead, I'm asking if there is a possibility to add them.

If it's a positive answer, I can wait, for I've been in love with this product for a long time. Yes or no, I just need an exact answer.

As everyone knows, the migration cost, no matter from Evernote to Wiznote or from Wiznote to Evernote, is too much for everyone that I can't bear, so I think I wouldn't try a second chance, not even once.

Thanks to Evernote Team. :-)

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Well, errr... When a woman says she will leave, mostly she just wants the man to keep her around.

Actually, I'm here not asking whether Evernote Team will add these features or not; instead, I'm asking if there is a possibility to add them.

If it's a positive answer, I can wait, for I've been in love with this product for a long time. Yes or no, I just need an exact answer.

As everyone knows, the migration cost, no matter from Evernote to Wiznote or from Wiznote to Evernote, is too much for everyone that I can't bear, so I think I wouldn't try a second chance, not even once.

Thanks to Evernote Team. :-)

They don't release roadmaps, and they generally stick by their guns. Then again, they reversed course on Skitch, so I guess you never know :)

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Well, errr... When a woman says she will leave, mostly she just wants the man to keep her around.

Actually, I'm here not asking whether Evernote Team will add these features or not; instead, I'm asking if there is a possibility to add them.

If it's a positive answer, I can wait, for I've been in love with this product for a long time. Yes or no, I just need an exact answer.

As everyone knows, the migration cost, no matter from Evernote to Wiznote or from Wiznote to Evernote, is too much for everyone that I can't bear, so I think I wouldn't try a second chance, not even once.

Thanks to Evernote Team. :-)

They don't release roadmaps, and they generally stick by their guns. Then again, they reversed course on Skitch, so I guess you never know :)

Wow, so I think I got you. How sad! To a company, we must ask ourselves, is a product developed for satisfying the users' need or the developers'? But thanks all the same, for helping me twice, especially I'm not an English-speaking user which may make the conversation difficult to understand.

Thank you very very much! Today is The Mid-autumn Festival in China, and I wish you a good luck!

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Well, errr... When a woman says she will leave, mostly she just wants the man to keep her around.

Actually, I'm here not asking whether Evernote Team will add these features or not; instead, I'm asking if there is a possibility to add them.

If it's a positive answer, I can wait, for I've been in love with this product for a long time. Yes or no, I just need an exact answer.

As everyone knows, the migration cost, no matter from Evernote to Wiznote or from Wiznote to Evernote, is too much for everyone that I can't bear, so I think I wouldn't try a second chance, not even once.

Thanks to Evernote Team. :-)

They don't release roadmaps, and they generally stick by their guns. Then again, they reversed course on Skitch, so I guess you never know :)

Wow, so I think I got you. How sad! But thanks all the same, for helping me twice, especially I'm not an English-speaking user which may make the conversation difficult to understand.

Thank you very very much! Today is The Mid-autumn Festival in China, and I wish you a good luck!

中秋节快乐!

The truth, of course, is that no one knows what will happen. Evernote staff may comment, but I doubt it, and I have not detected any hint that they plan to change anytime soon.

So, is there anything that can be done? I'm well-known around these forums for not using notebooks or tags (http://www.princeton.edu/~cmayo/evernote-organization.html), though I certainly see their value and often recommend others to use them for their needs. At the moment, Evernote's notebooks will not do what you want, but have you considered using note links to impose a hierarchy and order to your notes?

Basically, all you need to do is take the notes that would normally go into a notebook, select them, and drag them into a new note (I call these "index" notes). Note links will be created, and you can reorder, indent, etc. as much as you would like. Admittedly, it is not as pretty as a notebook hierarchy with icons, but it does the job, and it doesn't require a whole lot more effort. Perhaps this kind of a system would tide you over if/until Evernote changes their policy about notebooks.

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Year,

 

Why do they have to limit the hierachy level? It is not natural!

I do not remember how many times I wish this became true in the latest updates! Currently, I have to live with that paintful limitation of EN. I feel like handicapped.

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Why do they have to limit the hierachy level? It is not natural!

 

Natural? There's nothing especially natural about file cabinets with folders in them. Nor is there anything particularly "natural" about directory structures on computers. Many people have become accustomed to them. Some people like them. Some people find them frustrating and limiting. Some people find Evernote's organizational philosophy strange. Some people like it a lot. 

 

Microsoft's OneNote has made some strides in becoming more cross platform. You might find it worth a look. 

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Thank you for sharing your point of view!

 

I meant things are naturally hierachically structured like tree having many branches with many hierachy levels or directory, folder structures in our PC. If people like few levels of hierachy then they can limit themself to just 2, or 3 levels. But for me, I currently have hundreds of notes in many fields and many of them I have to put in the same notebook eventhough they are not related. That makes things become unstructured!!!

 

I tried OneNote but I prefer the simplicity of EN and I have to live with that limitation. It is just my opion!

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Why do they have to limit the hierachy level? It is not natural!

 

Natural? There's nothing especially natural about file cabinets with folders in them. Nor is there anything particularly "natural" about directory structures on computers. 

 

 

I would beg to differ.  Hierarchical organization is probably the oldest form of organization.  Ever hear of Parent-child?   How about Country-State-City?  How about governments, organizations, companies?  They all have hierarchical organizations.  I'd call all that pretty natural.

 

I wasn't there when it happened, but I suspect it was a natural instinct to store records in a hierarchical manner, starting at the top, and the further subdividing the records as needed.

 

IAC, I suspect that Trung meant "intuitive" rather than "natural".   Directories and sub-directories (Folders/Sub-Folders) have been around at least 30 years now, and they are something people who are organized fully understand and expect to find in most systems that organize data.

 

Tags, while I really like them and use them, are actually the least intuitive, as they are a relatively recent concept, and have not been used broadly until recent years.

 

Point is, both hierarchical organization (Folders/Sub-Folders) AND Tags are both useful, and actually serve different purposes.  Sub-Folders are primarily used to organize info, whereas Tags are used to find info across organizational structures.  Tags don't really help to organize your info, only to find it.

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Tsk tsk. Be good Eric. That's the sort of statement that might leave with no woman, or possibly a slap upside the head. Or both.

I suppose it's entirely possible you haven't seen the memo yet, but the suffragates won. Yes, shocking I know. Psst...we vote too!

We can be very loyal, but if not properly appreciated... ;)

Well, errr... When a woman says she will leave, mostly she just wants the man to keep her around.

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Tags, while I really like them and use them, are actually the least intuitive, as they are a relatively recent concept, and have not been used broadly until recent years.

This is just silliness. Tags are analogous to adjectives (sample definition: "a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it", where the 'noun' in Evernote's case is a note). Adjectives have been around for a very long time, and while not being a linguist, I'd guess that they're in most languages known today, certainly English, the Germanic and Romance languages. Adjectives are about as intuitive as things get, as we use them all the time; you used them in the sentence of yours that I quoted.
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Thank you for sharing your point of view!

 

I meant things are naturally hierachically structured like tree having many branches with many hierachy levels or directory, folder structures in our PC. If people like few levels of hierachy then they can limit themself to just 2, or 3 levels. But for me, I currently have hundreds of notes in many fields and many of them I have to put in the same notebook eventhough they are not related. That makes things become unstructured!!!

 

I tried OneNote but I prefer the simplicity of EN and I have to live with that limitation. It is just my opion!

What about rhizomes? Those are rather different than trees and are very much non-heirarchical (indeed they are horizontal, flat-ish) and just as natural! ;)

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Tags, while I really like them and use them, are actually the least intuitive, as they are a relatively recent concept, and have not been used broadly until recent years.

This is just silliness. Tags are analogous to adjectives (sample definition: "a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it", where the 'noun' in Evernote's case is a note). Adjectives have been around for a very long time, and while not being a linguist, I'd guess that they're in most languages known today, certainly English, the Germanic and Romance languages. Adjectives are about as intuitive as things get, as we use them all the time; you used them in the sentence of yours that I quoted.

 

 

I'm not sure where you get the idea that "Tags are analogous to adjectives".  After searching the Internet, all references I can find concerning Tags refers to them as "categories" or "keywords".  In fact, many of the uses cited for Evernote Tags in these forums are for categories, like "Politics".  Quite different from an adjective.  Many of the Evernote forum posters, like GrumpyMonkey, refer to Tags as "keywords".

 

Here's a quote from Microsoft:

 

 

What are tags?

Applies to Windows Vista

Tags are one of several properties that you can attach to your files to help you to find and organize them. In addition to tags, your files include other properties such as Date Modified, Author, and Rating. Tags are not a part of the actual contents of a file. Rather, tags provide information about files that you can use to more efficiently locate and organize them. Unlike other properties, which are usually predefined, tags can be anything you choose (such as "Invoices," "Vacation," or "Personal Documents"), and once created and attached to a file, become one of the file's properties.

You can use tags and other properties to further refine the way you search and organize. So, the next time you need to locate a file, try searching by using tags you have applied to files, which can be easier than trying to remember the folder where the file is stored and the correct file name.

 

And some more quotes:

 

 

TaggedFrog is a free file organizer for Windows that allows a user to add and organize the documents, files, music, and bookmarks simply by tagging them with a keyword. Once all your important files are tagged, you don’t need to worry anymore about where they are located on the hard disk. To access the files later, simply enter the keyword and all files tagged with that keyword will be shown.

 

 

What are tags?

Tags are a way to organise lots of information. They are simply short descriptions for a subject. They are like keywords, or a label for a category.

Our website is filled with information. So we have categorised our material under tags to make it easier for you to find what you want.

 

As far as I can tell, tags were NOT widely used in the computer world until the Mac OS X started supporting file tags, followed by Microsoft Vista.  Even then, tags were not widely used.  So use of Tags in categorizing information is relatively new, as compared to use of Directory/Folder hierarchies, which go back more than 30 years.  This is further evidenced by the many, many users who have posted in these Evernote forums asking about why Evernote does NOT hierarchical NB/Folders, and the many questions posted about how to use Tags.

 

Finally, I don't want to engage in an off-topic debate, but you calling another poster's comments as "silliness" is unnecessary and inappropriate, and contributes NOTHING to the discussion.

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I'm not sure where you get the idea that "Tags are analogous to adjectives".  After searching the Internet, all references I can find concerning Tags refers to them as "categories" or "keywords".  In fact, many of the uses cited for Evernote Tags in these forums are for categories, like "Politics".  Quite different from an adjective.  Many of the Evernote forum posters, like GrumpyMonkey, refer to Tags as "keywords".

 

Why, I just referred to inside of my own little brain to figure that out; we all have that option after all. It's a conceptual thing, maybe you didn't get that. You do understand what 'analogous' means, right? Anyways, so how well do they match up with the definition for adjectives that I that quoted ("a word or phrase naming an attribute, added to or grammatically related to a noun to modify or describe it")? Pretty well, I'd say (with the addition that an Evernote note is analogous to a noun here). In Evernote, a tag is a bit of text that you attach to a note or notes describing some property of the note.

Call them what you will, 'tags', 'labels', 'categories', 'keywords': they all function in much the same way. And that can help to understand them better. They're not mystical things, they're just a way of applying terms to better describe the content of the note in a shorthand way. Of course, you can easily use nouns as tag names; linguistically, that can be a little blurry, but nouns are pretty familiar to most language users as well. In general, I think it's easier to think of them as adjectives.

The quotes you supplied actually match up reasonably well, too, btw.

 

As far as I can tell, tags were NOT widely used in the computer world until the Mac OS X started supporting file tags, followed by Microsoft Vista.  Even then, tags were not widely used.  So use of Tags in categorizing information is relatively new, as compared to use of Directory/Folder hierarchies, which go back more than 30 years.  This is further evidenced by the many, many users who have posted in these Evernote forums asking about why Evernote does NOT hierarchical NB/Folders, and the many questions posted about how to use Tags.

You've basically missed the point: tags in Evernote (and in other products, and also keywords, labels, categories, etc.) function in a similar way to that of our very familiar adjectives. It doesn't matter how some specific computer system uses something called "tags", or that because it's computer related, it's a relatively recent development. Think about how adjectives function, and think about how tags (or keywords or categories or labels) function, and remember that adjectives are actually pretty intuitive to many language users.

 

Finally, I don't want to engage in an off-topic debate, but you calling another poster's comments as "silliness" is unnecessary and inappropriate, and contributes NOTHING to the discussion.

Called that one as I see it. As for relevance: if tags are as misunderstood (or "least intuitive") as you seem to think, don't you think that it would be a good idea to help people conceptualize them better? After all, Evernote has tags already, but it doesn't have an arbitrarily-nestable storage structure. Of course if you're thinking that opining some more about hierarchicality as a more basic or natural form of organization than anything else is more topical and useful to current Evernote users-- even though Evernote doesn't really have that -- well, shine on.

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One would think that an Evernote Evangelist would try to set a better example for posters in this forum, and not be so sarcastic and not use pejorative labels of others posts.  But, those in power continue to disappoint.

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One might think that but they'd be wrong. I'm not here to set an example. In general, I'm here to try to help Evernote users who have actual issues with the software. and I think my record bears out that I do a lot of that. On the other hand, that doesn't disallow me from engaging in discussions of Evernote practice, philosophy, concepts etc.. Sarcasm is expressly allowed in these forums, by the way. And I'm sure that those in power will continue to muddle on. But speaking of topicality... nothing more to contribute, I take it? Adjectives, tags, remember?

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Tags don't really help to organize your info, only to find it.

 

 

Perhaps they don't help you organize your info. They do quite a good job organizing mine. 

 

I don't particularly care if people like or don't like hierarchal systems of organization. I don't. I find I spend far more time "organizing' and less time using information when trying to conform to what is to me an artificial structure. So, I picked the tool that lets me handle my information the way that works for me. I don't understand why people who really feel a need to use such structures keep trying to use a tool that doesn't let them work the way the want and, worse, keep getting indignant about it. Seems rather like buying a ball peen hammer then complaining it won't pull nails. 

 

Best of luck. 

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Tags don't really help to organize your info, only to find it.

 

 

Perhaps they don't help you organize your info. They do quite a good job organizing mine. 

 

I don't particularly care if people like or don't like hierarchal systems of organization. I don't. I find I spend far more time "organizing' and less time using information when trying to conform to what is to me an artificial structure. So, I picked the tool that lets me handle my information the way that works for me. I don't understand why people who really feel a need to use such structures keep trying to use a tool that doesn't let them work the way the want and, worse, keep getting indignant about it. Seems rather like buying a ball peen hammer then complaining it won't pull nails. 

 

Best of luck. 

 

 

I think you have completely misunderstood me.  I am all for each person using the tools available to them in they way they choose.

 

I also think we have a different definition of "organize".  From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:

 

 

to arrange or order things so that they can be found or used easily and quickly : to put things into a particular arrangement or order

 

To me, the operative words defining "organize" are "arrange" and "order".  An example would be a book, which is ordered in an arbitrary manner by chapters -- completely determined by the author.  IOW, organization translates into the order in which the information is displayed.

 

IME, Tags don't really allow you to ORDER your Notes.  You can search on Tags to quickly find your Notes, but you have only limited choices for the order in which to display the search results.

 

OTOH, hierarchical structures, like Folder/Sub-Folders, DO allow you to ORDER your Notes in the way you would like to display them.  I'm sure you've seen the collapsible TOC outlines online, like in PDF docs.  This is very useful for organizing certain types of information, like books, projects, etc.  Another great example is Procedures.  Procedures almost always must be followed in step-by-step order.

 

All that I am saying is that both hierarchical Notebooks and Tags are beneficial, and the user can choose which tool they need.

 

BTW, I am a huge fan of Tags.  Have you seen my thread: The Benefit of Using Tags

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Thanks for clarifying me.

I am using both hierachical structures and tags to organize notes. For me, I have a lots of notes, so I organize as following. Assuming that the notebooks are independent (such as math, biology, chemical), I use hierachical structures to organize notebooks. For each notebook (such as math->algebra, math->alalytic), I use tags. For me, there are two problems in current EN version

1. I cannot make more notebooks like math->algebra->numbertheory since EN limits the hierachy level.

2. If I use only tags, there are hundreds of tags for all my notes and tags are independent from notebooks. Everytime, I browse each notebook, I have to select tags from the same (global) tag collection to find my notes. It is frustrated.

 

Have you ever used Mendeley, I really love the way Mendeley organizes the research papers. Whenever you browse any hierachical group, the group-dependent tags appear for you to select. It is really fast! There is no limitation on the hierachical structure. Have any one faced this problem and could you share me a solution?

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Thanks for clarifying me.

I am using both hierachical structures and tags to organize notes. For me, I have a lots of notes, so I organize as following. Assuming that the notebooks are independent (such as math, biology, chemical), I use hierachical structures to organize notebooks. For each notebook (such as math->algebra, math->alalytic), I use tags. For me, there are two problems in current EN version

1. I cannot make more notebooks like math->algebra->numbertheory since EN limits the hierachy level.

2. If I use only tags, there are hundreds of tags for all my notes and tags are independent from notebooks. Everytime, I browse each notebook, I have to select tags from the same (global) tag collection to find my notes. It is frustrated.

 

Have you ever used Mendeley, I really love the way Mendeley organizes the research papers. Whenever you browse any hierachical group, the group-dependent tags appear for you to select. It is really fast! There is no limitation on the hierachical structure. Have any one faced this problem and could you share me a solution?

Organizing is not synonymous with the physical location of your content in a notebook. Organizing can also extend to the tagging of your content (in Evernote). This can organize your notes across notebooks.

 

For your #2 above, if you have a lot of tags, I'd suggest that you avoid the use of the tag tree in the left panel, and use the tag control that in the search control (it's the blue icon that's to the right of the search control above your note list). Pick a notebook, then click on the tag icon: the list that's presented is filtered to the tags in your notebook. Start typing to filter that tag list and select the one that you want. To pick subsequent tags, click on the text that says "Click to filter by tag..."

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A little more on this:

Some people seem to think that it's important to keep notes organized by notebook. That's fine, but as you know, the number of notebooks are limited, and you can often use tags to find your notes just as easily as notebooks (I often just use the search control in the toolbar, which lets you type in Evernote search queries, and using tags or notebooks are equally fast for me to type). For my purposes, I tend to use notebooks sparingly, and almost always for the following purposes:

* For sharing: you can only share a notebook if you want to share a collection of notes. Since I have several sets of notes that I want to share from my personal account to my work account (e.g., my collection of software development web articles), I use notebooks for this purpose

* For local notebooks, using the Windows or Mac desktop clients: if you have a set of notes that you don't want synced to the Evernote cloud, you can create a local notebook and store those notes there.

* For offline clients on mobile devices: if you have collections of notes that you want to ensure are always present on your mobile device, then you can designate a notebook on the device as an "offline" notebook, and notes in that notebook will stay synced to the device.

* You need a notebook as the target of some of the note import facilities (e.g. Import Folders on the Windows client); it's useful to have separate notebooks for this so that you can handle new notes and categorize them into their final destination notebook.

For the most part, I find little need to create notebooks (though I am not as minimalist as some folks, like Grumpy Monkey). Notebooks don't help me to find relevant notes any faster, which is sort of the point: if you can describe a note adequately, say, via tags, or note content, or special titles, or whatever, then you should be able to find it easily

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For the most part, I find little need to create notebooks (though I am not as minimalist as some folks, like Grumpy Monkey). Notebooks don't help me to find relevant notes any faster, which is sort of the point: if you can describe a note adequately, say, via tags, or note content, or special titles, or whatever, then you should be able to find it easily

I think this is an important point that is often not really understood by people new to Evernote & so they tend to react badly when they find out EN limits you to 250 notebooks and/or there are no sub notebooks or sub stacks.  I probably use more notebooks than you do.  But I've never run into the notebook ceiling, even when it was only 100.  And yet pretty much all my searches start at "all notebooks" & I rarely specify a notebook in my search.  Not that it never happens.  Just that about 75% of the time I do not limit my searches to a notebook.  I rely mostly upon keywords, descriptive titles, tags & sometimes created/modified dates.  The example I normally use is this one:

 

 

I chose keywords in titles over tags because title is more visible, regardless of the Evernote client you are using. I also didn't want to worry about the issue of tag maintenance, etc.

Me too. I think people new to Evernote have a tendency to over tag (I did) and not utilize the EN search engine. I have hundreds of documents in my EN & almost never tag them. But I'm diligent about using an accurate title. I always include the date of the bill/letter in YYYYMMDD format as well as the company or the name of the sender/recipient (if it's something I sent). So if I need to find the Cox cable bill from May of 2007, I'd simply do this search:

intitle:cox 200705*

and boom...out of thousands of notes, the one note I'm looking for pops up, no matter what notebook it was in. And no tags involved.

 

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A couple more points on the notion of organization and arrangement in Evernote:

The following -- courtesy of Merriam Webster -- is probably a more appropriate definitions of 'organize' with respect to Evernote (since we're discussing Evernote, after all):


"to form into a coherent unity or functioning whole"

 

In Evernote, both notebooks and tags (and stacks, to a secondary extent) can be used to organize your notes:

  • Notebooks 'partition' your notes by forming groups of notes such that each note belongs to exactly one notebook
  • Tags also group your notes, but differently: a tag can be applied to an arbitrary number of notes, and a note can have an arbitrary number of tags. Notes that have the same tag are related, regardless of what notebook they belong to.

Notebooks don't have any input into the arrangement of your Evernote notes, if by 'arrange' one means 'to put into a particular order':

In Evernote, sort order is a property of the note list, not notebooks: in any filtering of your note list, the order that notes appear (discounting the reminder list, if any), they will appear in the order that you set on the note list (e.g. created date, title, size, author, etc.). Whether the notes in your filter are chosen via notebook, or tag, or date range, or some mix of these or other criteria, the only thing that governs the order that you see them in is the sort order setting for the note list. Notebooks do not order your notes any more or less than tags do.

 

Organizational schemes in Evernote are really about grouping, with only a secondary emphasis on sorting. Each term in a search query -- whether you make it explicitly using the Evernote search language, or by via a UI action like picking a notebook or a tag -- denotes a set of notes; combining terms performs Boolean operations on those notes sets, also resulting in a set. That set of notes is then ordered by the note list setting. Each Evernote user should aim to create organization structures using groupings like notebooks, tags, special titles or note keywords, etc. so as to make functional groups that suit their their use case(s). Generally speaking, the aim in Evernote is to figure out "how do I find my stuff?", with a secondary emphasis on "how do I store my stuff?", and a tertiary emphasis (but perhaps gaining importance) on "how do I present my stuff?"

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Why do they have to limit the hierachy level? It is not natural!

 

Using computers is not natural, either. :)

 

Compared to the approach of many people here in the forums, I have quite a lot of notebooks, 45 to precise. There was a time when I was frustrated by the lack of hierarchy, too. With time, I did not only get used to it, but the need to keep a straight and and simple approach leaked over to other areas of my work. Now I find that I can get a much better overview with fewer levels, while still being able to filter by any criteria I need. 

 

Of course, this will not work for all notetaking needs, as there is information that is meant to be hierarchical, but I think in most cases hierarchy is just what we are used to because it became a habit at one point. 

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Why do they have to limit the hierachy level? It is not natural!

 

Using computers is not natural, either. :)

. . .

 but I think in most cases hierarchy is just what we are used to because it became a habit at one point. 

 

 

Some people might consider what we do out of habit to be "natural".  ;)

 

Actually, very few things we regularly do or expect are natural -- most of them are learned behavior.  Like brushing your teeth.  We all hated it and fought it as kids, but as adults we can't stand to go without it.

 

By your definition, Tags are also not natural.  But who cares?  That's not the point.

 

Both Tags and hierarchical storage have their benefits and drawbacks.  There is nothing wrong with users of Evernote wanting/requesting hierarchical storage (sub-notebooks).  Based on Evernote's response so far, it appears unlikely that Evernote will ever provide this.  But you never know.  After years of saying they wouldn't support any type of hierarchical organization, Evernote introduced "Stacks".

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One level more in notebooks would be very good. Example: at the university you have

 

- Summer term 2014

-- Biology14

-- Physik14

- Winter term 2014/15

-- Biology1415

-- Physik1415

 

So you have to handle all material in a subject with a lot of tags. This means: you have to click, click, click. (In version 4 it was okay - you had seen in the left sidebar only the tags of the notebook "Biology14". In version 5 you have a long, long, long list of all your tags ...)

 

Would be great to have

- Summer term 2014

-- Biology

--- Scripts

--- handwritten notes

--- blackboard pictures

and so on

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One level more in notebooks would be very good. Example: at the university you have

 

- Summer term 2014

-- Biology14

-- Physik14

- Winter term 2014/15

-- Biology1415

-- Physik1415

 

So you have to handle all material in a subject with a lot of tags. This means: you have to click, click, click. (In version 4 it was okay - you had seen in the left sidebar only the tags of the notebook "Biology14". In version 5 you have a long, long, long list of all your tags ...)

 

Would be great to have

- Summer term 2014

-- Biology

--- Scripts

--- handwritten notes

--- blackboard pictures

and so on

 

There are saved searches for intricate searches you don't want to type each time.

 

Or just have a stack for Biology with these notebooks:

 

- biology scripts

- biology handwritten notes

- biology blackboard pictures

 

Just have your current term in these stacks/notebooks & you don't need to identify them as summer term 2014.  When the term is over, tag them (with say "summer term 2014" & whatever else) & move them to a more general notebook. 

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So you have to handle all material in a subject with a lot of tags. This means: you have to click, click, click. (In version 4 it was okay - you had seen in the left sidebar only the tags of the notebook "Biology14". In version 5 you have a long, long, long list of all your tags ...)

The suggestion here is to use the search control above the note panel. Pick your notebook (e.g., "Biology14", I guess) in that search control -- if you use it often, it'll appear in the Favorites, otherwise, just start typing its name if it doesn't appear in the list, then click on the tag icon to the right side -- it'll be filtered to a list (not a tree, unfortunately) of the tags used by notes in that notebook. Continue picking tags by clicking on the "Click to filter by tag..." text, which should show you a list of tags used by notes that match the prior filter (notebook and tag, in this case).

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One level more in notebooks would be very good. Example: at the university you have

 

- Summer term 2014

-- Biology14

-- Physik14

- Winter term 2014/15

-- Biology1415

-- Physik1415

 

So you have to handle all material in a subject with a lot of tags. This means: you have to click, click, click. (In version 4 it was okay - you had seen in the left sidebar only the tags of the notebook "Biology14". In version 5 you have a long, long, long list of all your tags ...)

 

Would be great to have

- Summer term 2014

-- Biology

--- Scripts

--- handwritten notes

--- blackboard pictures

and so on

 

This is a great example of where having sub-Notebooks would be very helpful.

 

In the Left Panel, you could click on "Summer Term 2014" (for example) and see, as sub-Notebook", one Notebook for each class.

OTOH, if you tagged all Biology classes (from all semesters) with the tag "Biology", then you could see you notes for ALL Biology classes.

 

IMO, this is a great example of how sub-Notebooks and Tags COULD work together.

IMO, having a hierarchy of all classes for a given semester is a very NATURAL thing to do.

 

IF your response is to use Stacks, then we agree -- hierarchy is helpful.  In fact, I would actually suggest this from a practical POV.

Create a STACK for each semester.  Then create a NB within that Stack for each class.  Tag each Class with its discipline.

This lets you easily see all classes for a semester, as well as all classes for a discipline.

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