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peterfmartin

chrome (Archived) [Chrome] Reactions to new clipper (5.3), released April 17

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Here are mine:

Positive:

1. I appreciate the new clipper's smart filing. So far it has been helpful with a few clips. Evernote staff, are you willing to tell us anything about how the clipper generates likely tags? Is there any way we can teach the clipper how to smart file better?

2. Backspacing twice to remove a wrong tag is very helpful.

Negative:

1. Three visual drop-down tag options is less helpful than the five options the clipper used to give.

2. The alternating shading in the drop-down tag menu is confusing. Especially when there are two options showing, I think the gray shading of the first means I've selected it, so I hit Enter and get stuck with a wrong tag (just the first few letters of the tag I wanted). It would be more useful and visually coherent if the tag options did not alternate between the gray and white backgrounds.

3. In the old clipper, when the tag drop-down menu appeared, hitting either the up or down arrows would allow you to scroll through the list, starting at either the top or bottom. Now the down arrow no longer works, meaning a lot more scrolling to get the options at the bottom of the lists.

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Thanks for the feedback, we'll take this into consideration for the next release.

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I like the smart filing too. On the flip side, although I really do like the new "tag-to-closeable-button" interface, it makes it impossible to copy tags between clips. I guess this really is a feature request, but I'd like a way to pull up the tags from the most recent clip easily and add them to a new web clip. Currently, if I am doing a batch of documents related to the same notebook/project, I have to re-add the tags repeatedly for each of the clippings in the set.

-- roschler

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I like the smart filing too. On the flip side, although I really do like the new "tag-to-closeable-button" interface, it makes it impossible to copy tags between clips. I guess this really is a feature request, but I'd like a way to pull up the tags from the most recent clip easily and add them to a new web clip. Currently, if I am doing a batch of documents related to the same notebook/project, I have to re-add the tags repeatedly for each of the clippings in the set.

-- roschler

You might consider adding the Tags AFTER you have clipped.

It might be easier to assign a common set of Tags to the same set of Notes.

In EN Win, you can use the Assign Tags ... dialog (CTRL+ALT+T)

In EN Mac, you can copy the set of tags on one Note, and then paste into the other Notes.

The "Assign Tags" is really cool, I just wish they would add this to EN Mac.

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The smart tagging operation is pretty slow for me with Chrome, which is a new problem. For example, I typed "national institute health" as a tag and it took 5 to 7 seconds for the tag to appear after I was done typing. The functionality is great but with the current speed, it feels like running through a swimming pool. I'm running on an i5 quad core with 4 GB of memory. This happens even if I only have a few tabs open in Chrome. Before this version creating tags was fast and did not have this problem.

Note this is not a complaint about the new features. The new feature set is great. I'm just reporting this so your devs can (hopefully) find what is making it sluggish and rectify it in a later version.

-- roschler

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@roschler

Thx for the feedback. We haven't noticed the slowness you have so I'm curious and like to know some more details.

1) Is the slowness happening after you type a new tag in the tag field and the UI updates and turn it into a 'lozenge'?

2) If you turn off Smart Filing in the options page is the tagging then more responsive?

The process of generating Smart Filing suggestions should happen as you start up the clipper so adding additional tags manually should in theory not have anything to do with Smart Filing.

BTW what Chrome version and OS are you on?

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@jbignert

I am running on Windows XP SP 3, Chrome 17.0.963.79 m, and Evernote Clipper 5.3.

The delay happens while I am typing before the tag appears as regular text and then turns into a "lozenge" (thanks for that term, I've been wondering what to call it).

Turning off Smart Filing eliminates the delay.

UPDATE: That worked at first but now the delay happens even with Smart Filing off (I double-checked in the Options page). As I am typing tags it appears the Tag look-up feature is very sluggish.

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Had problems with clipper sign in until I removed the clipper and did a clean re-install.

Noticed that the notebook criteria (default/specific/remember) has been removed from options. What is the burned in setting in the new clipper?

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@roschler

Thanks for the clarifications. Two follow up questions:

1) How many notes do you have in your account?

2) How many tags do you have?

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@Owyn

We burned the different notebook options in favor for always 'Remember last used notebook'

We figured that actually covers all options that was there in pre 5.3 versions. Aim is to de-clutter the options page...

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We burned the different notebook options in favor for always 'Remember last used notebook'

We figured that actually covers all options that was there in pre 5.3 versions. Aim is to de-clutter the options page...

Please don't make changes like this that reduce options. A lot of us feel that we already have too few options.

With all due respect, I don't see how you could consider the previous set of options as being "cluttered".

And I certainly don't see how removing one option has any significant impact on"de-cluttering" the options page.

We don't need to visit the Options page often, so I don't see how having a number of choices is a problem.

With millions of users surely you must understand that there are going to be many different preferences that these users will have. Even if you only affect a small percentage, that translates into thousands of users.

Please error on the side of too many options rather than too few.

Thanks.

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@jbignert

It says 1622 next to the All Notes notebook item. I keep the Tags tree collapsed because the interface becomes unusable with it open. Whenver I expand the Tags tree the interface locks up for several minutes before the tree appears (just the Evernote Web interface tab, not Chrome itself). However I don't see a way to get a count of the number of distinct tags. Can you tell me? I know I have at least several hundred tags, perhaps significantly more.

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@roschler

By your description it sounds like we need to re-index your account. I've asked support to get that going and it should be completed by now. Can you check again and see if things goes faster. Both Chrome Clipper and Web Client should benefit from it.

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@roschler: By the sound of it, you use lots and lots of different tags. I understand why this could cause a performance problem. I have a fix in mind for our next version of the clipper. Hope it's not too bothersome in the meantime for you. Think you could clarify one thing for me? If you start typing into the "tags" field, is it sluggish to come up with the first result, and then it works fine afterward, or is it sluggish updating the list of possible matching tags after each keystroke? I hope that's a clear enough question. I ask because exactly what the fix is depends on whether we're being slow grabbing the initial tag list, or if we're being slow looking for matching tags to autocomplete.

Thanks.

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I ask because exactly what the fix is depends on whether we're being slow grabbing the initial tag list, or if we're being slow looking for matching tags to autocomplete.

Why don't you just make sure both work fast -- I'm sure out of 20M users both will occur.

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@tkaraszewski

It's pretty bad. If it weren't for the fact that Evernote & the clipper are indispensable to me, I'd be sitting it out until a fix was in place. As it is, I find myself clipping only what is absolutely necessary instead of recreational clippings too.

The perceived frequency of occurrence is about 90% having the sluggish responsiveness as I type tags, so it apparently it is something to do with the latest version and tag lookups as it builds the frequently used tag drop-down box. I say 90% because every now and then, in a transient manner that I have yet to find a pattern, it responds normally for the first few tags and then reverts back to being sluggish.

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@jbignert

Would be useful if the Web Client -> Settings included a Statistics section to report total:

- Notes

- Notebooks

- Tags

- Saved Searches

At this time only total notes are visible in any client.

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Just clipped from this forum and noticed:

- Had to sign in again even though web client was active in same browser instance. Checked Remember in sign in dialog to see if that will fix the symptom.

- Inappropriate tag suggested (again).

Testing from Linux/Chromium with options set to Smart Filing -> Tags only.

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Suggested tags seem to be appropriate now with the 5.3.1 update. Several clips from this morning looked fine. Still sluggish at times suggesting tags.

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More comments:

—In the last few days the clipper has had a far higher incidence of only letting me clip the whole page, and not letting me clip an article, than it did before.

—It has also had a harder time parsing what the article is on news pages than the old clipper. This is fixable, since I just use the arrows to change the selection, but it suggests a backward step in how the clipper is reading pages.

—Smart filing has been helpful enough that I haven't turned it off yet, but I wish it were faster. Right now, if I clip a page I don't want to assign tags to, I have to wait a few seconds to make sure the clipper isn't adding tags.

—Even though I've enabled smart filing only for tags (I have only one personal notebook and a few shared notebooks), one time the clipper suggested a notebook shared with me. It shouldn't have done this, since it should always use my default notebook.

—To the Evernote employees here, I'm still very interested to know (at least vaguely) how Evernote generates tag suggestions and whether/how we can teach it to suggest better. So far it has been pretty good, but not nearly perfect, at suggesting tags. I don't expect it to name all the tags I want to add to a clip, but I don't want it to suggest wrong tags, and I'd like to teach it what's wrong.

One response to a much earlier post on this conversation:

I'd like a way to pull up the tags from the most recent clip easily and add them to a new web clip. Currently, if I am doing a batch of documents related to the same notebook/project, I have to re-add the tags repeatedly for each of the clippings in the set.

This isn't perfect, but there's a workaround. If you copy text into the tag field, it creates tags. So if you are going to tag three or four notes in a row with the tags "Apple," "Boy," and "Car," just copy the text "apple, boy, car, " (that last comma is important, since it makes "car" a tag) and paste it into the tag field.

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My reaction to 5.3 on Chrome is that it doesn't work properly (using 18.0.1025.162 m). I get the full Evernote bubble when I click the extension icon but the only selection option that works now is URL - which makes Evernote a bit pointless.

I appreciate that things have to be updated and we all like to see products improve, I also understand that there are lots of things that can go wrong with so many variables involved, but please stop breaking the core functions. This is twice I've experienced problems and I was genuinely going to subscribe to the service and use it as my web research clipping tool of choice, but it's just not reliable enough.

"If it ain't broke, don't update it and break it" - I'd be happier if more tech companies had slogans like that pinned to their walls rather than pie in the sky twaddle like "break stuff, move fast". If people are relying on a product everyday breaking stuff ain't appreciated, although I do appreciate the great product you do have when it is working.

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None of the now 20 NYTimes.com articles I have clipped since yesterday have been clipped correctly. They have had several different errors, though. Some are like the article I shared in my last post on this topic. Here are other mistakes:

http://dl.dropbox.co...raq article.jpg

—In addition to visible problem, the clipping cut the first paragraph of the article and the last two, meaning it cut 30 percent of the article, even though those parts were selected.

dl.dropbox.com/u/10450950/Gillibrand%20article.jpg

—In addition to the added gap towards the top, the text should extend to the right side of the window, but each line has a line break that's not in the original code, and isn't usually there in clipped pages.

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I know this thread is about the Chrome clipper, but I'm curious if any of you have tried the new Firefox Web Clipper 5.1 Beta ?

I have not tried clipping the NYTimes, but all of the web sites I have clipped are turning out very good.

The FF Clearly clipper also works as well, if not better. It does a better job on these EN Forum posts.

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For most of the last two days, the tag drop-down menu hasn't appeared, forcing me to type all tags out completely. Right now it's working, but until about five minutes ago, it hadn't been working all day.

EDIT: Problem just came back. Here's an example: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10450950/Tags%20not%20working.jpg .

(JMichael: I'm glad to hear the Firefox clipper is good, but there are a lot of reasons I use Chrome nearly exclusively, and I wish the Chrome clipper could be brought up to the same standard.)

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The new version automatically selects the first notebook from alphabetically ordered list of notebooks which is wrong for me. Could it just remember the last one or could there be a possibility to configure the default notebook?

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Okay, uninstalled it and did a fresh install, and it appears to be working again - instantly wants to clip an article I previously could only save the URL of. Will feedback if it goes crazy again. It doesn't look to be a new version though, still 5.3.1.

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Hi all,

Just wanted to jump in and say thanx for the detailed feedback provided. We are iterating fast on improving on all the issues mentioned in this thread. Some specifics:

@Jari

You can turn off Smart Filing for notebooks if you want on the settings page. That way Web Clipper will remember your last selected notebook and serve that as a default.

@peterfmartin

Article detection algorithm has not changed substantially. We did put in a mechanism that prevents defaulting to article detection if the character count is below 300. Generally in our internal tests this has worked well. But we will keep evaluating it.

@OperEd

5.3.1 should be better than 5.3 in that respect.

All please post 'troublesome' URLs here so we can tune it to get better article detection and clip quality results.

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Just trying to convert over to Evernote and this is frustrating...

WinXP 64 bit, Chrome 18.0.1025.162 m, Evernote Clipper 5.3.1

-clipper does not use the tags I select so I have to set them again in EN. I turned off the auto tag feature

-clipper does not use the title I typed so I have to type it again in EN

-what is the Notes section at the bottom for? there is a comment field which works (once at least).

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Gotta say I am enjoying the auto-filing (mainly tags). There's a little delay before they pop up, but the few clippings I have made have been right on. Nice feature.

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@jefito

I like the Smart Filing feature too. The only tweak I'd like to see is an hourglass or something that gives a visual cue when the Smart Filing code has finished. Sometimes there are no suggestions and I find myself waiting for a notebook/tag suggestion to pop up that isn't forthcoming.

-- roschler

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Agree that a visual cue would be nice...

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While smart filing is loading, I see this. When it's done, I see this. That distinction doesn't appear for you two (and others)?

It does for me.

I usually edit note title when I clip. In most cases I find that the tags have been assigned (I smart file for tags only) by the time I have edited the title.

Now, if I could just figure out the assigning algorithm. It is something more than just the source url.

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@peterfmartin

Those visual cues only happen if Smart Filing comes up with a suggestion. As I said, if it does not make a suggestion then you won't see the green shading for either the notebook or the tags and you do not get a visual cue that tells you that you might as well start typing your own choices because Smart Filing has come up "empty-handed" and is done trying to guess.

-- roschler

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But it has to generate a suggestion for a notebook—unless you've enabled it only for tags. Even if the clipper generates no tag suggestion, I see that because the notebook field has changed its appearance. Have you disabled it for notebooks, or is your clipper working differently from mine?

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@peterfmartin,

I just checked my settings and it says "Tags and Notebooks". Perhaps the combination of note database and web pages you clip always leads to a suggestion where in my case it does not.

-- roschler

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Thanks all for feedback, we will add a Smart filing loading graphic / visual cue within short.

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It's hard to react to the new Clipper since it doesn't work. It doesn't acknowledge that I am already signed in to the web app. I'm not going to sign in to the same service twice, especially since you can't sign into the web clipper with Last Pass. So basically it's useless, significantly lessening the value of EN to me.

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Sorry, derekj, I'm not sure I understand. It's useless because you don't want to sign in to Evernote twice (on two different clients), or because of a bug that's making it inaccesible?

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For some reason, my Chrome plug-in will no longer allow me to "clip" -- in fact, clipping isn't even an option. When I open the clipper, my choices are "save article..." or "save...".

Any ideas?

Thanks

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@Melancon

We rewrote some of the UI strings. 'Save Article' does the same thing as 'Clip Article' does.

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Web Clipper for Chrome (5.3.1) seems to be working for me again, both at work on a Mac using Chrome 15.0.874.106 and at home (I don't know what version of Chrome I have, but it'll be the latest one).

I can clip articles, selections, full pages again.

Thanks for fixing the problem!

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I've been having an issue with repeatedly being asked to sign in when I try to clip an article. I don't recall signing in so much with previous versions. I clipped an article yesterday and had to sign in again this morning even though my computer has been on the entire time.

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More improvements for this issue are pending in Chrome Clipper 5.3.2 (currently in beta).

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Environment:

  • Windows 7 SP1 64bit
  • Chrome v18.0.1025.168 m
  • Web Clipper v5.3.2

Context:

  • All other Extensions DISABLED

3. In the old clipper, when the tag drop-down menu appeared, hitting either the up or down arrows would allow you to scroll through the list, starting at either the top or bottom. Now the down arrow no longer works, meaning a lot more scrolling to get the options at the bottom of the lists.

@peterfmartin

agreed. big time heartache.

The smart tagging operation is pretty slow for me with Chrome, which is a new problem. For example, I typed "national institute health" as a tag and it took 5 to 7 seconds for the tag to appear after I was done typing.

@roschler

same here.

1) How many notes do you have in your account?

2) How many tags do you have?

@jbignert

  • Notebooks: 26
  • Notes: 807
  • Tags: 1,245 (+/- 10)

We burned the different notebook options in favor for always 'Remember last used notebook'

We figured that actually covers all options that was there in pre 5.3 versions. Aim is to de-clutter the options page...

@jbignert

+1 to bring it back

Please error on the side of too many options rather than too few.

@JMichael

I'm definitely in league with you on this one though the kids at 37signals - progenitors of Ruby on Rails + less-is-more - would certainly argue the point.

By your description it sounds like we need to re-index your account. I've asked support to get that going and it should be completed by now. Can you check again and see if things goes faster. Both Chrome Clipper and Web Client should benefit from it.

@jbignert

would it be possible to request this be done for me as well, perhaps via support ticket?

also: is the Evernote for Windows client re-indexing behind the scenes locally? I seem to recall there used to be a 'heal thy db' command of some kind under one of the application menus but can't be sure.

@roschler: By the sound of it, you use lots and lots of different tags. I understand why this could cause a performance problem. I have a fix in mind for our next version of the clipper. Hope it's not too bothersome in the meantime for you. Think you could clarify one thing for me? If you start typing into the "tags" field, is it sluggish to come up with the first result, and then it works fine afterward, or is it sluggish updating the list of possible matching tags after each keystroke? I hope that's a clear enough question. I ask because exactly what the fix is depends on whether we're being slow grabbing the initial tag list, or if we're being slow looking for matching tags to autocomplete.

@tkaraszewski

can you spitball what constitutes 'lots and lots'?

for me, it was definitely sluggish *initially* as in when *first* gathering up a set of possible matches.

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It's hard to react to the new Clipper since it doesn't work. It doesn't acknowledge that I am already signed in to the web app. I'm not going to sign in to the same service twice, especially since you can't sign into the web clipper with Last Pass. So basically it's useless, significantly lessening the value of EN to me.

I was able to add a last pass site for:

chrome-extension://pioclpoplcdbaefihamjohnefbikjilc/

While I could not auto-fill my password, I was able to copy the password via the last pass context menu and avoid opening up my vault.

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I am having trouble installing the web clipper on my iPad. I have both google chrome and safari and it will not let me use/download the web clipper feature for either. Please Help! I need this app for school. One thing I was wondering was if my problems generated from the fact that I haven't synced my iPad with a Mac desktop yet? And if I do in fact need to sync it with a Mac desktop then I suppose I also must get Evernote on the desktop too??

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