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lpr

mac (Archived) WHY FOLDER ARCHITECTURE NOT MORE TRANSPARENT? + SHOW IN FINDER?

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love evernote, use it everyday. But the more I use it the more I need to trust that what I put in it is safe and easily accessible but at the moment the folder architecture where MY DATA is saved is very unfriendly, and seems like it is designed to be only accessed by the program and not by users...

It still is very unpractical that there is no "show in finder" option anywhere on evernote. I requested many times this essential option. I assume that all the data of one note is stored in one folder within evernote. The user-friendly thing would be to be able to right-click show in finder on a note to be taken to this folder, and to do the same on an image or any file added to the note to be taken to that very file. I CAN NOT STRESS ENOUGH HOW HELPFUL THAT WOULD BE .

For instance, in some notes, I have added many many photos that I often need to access in their original file format without having to copy them individually and pasting them into folders, for example to show them in a preview slideshow. Knowing where my original data is stored is so crucial... I am sure as developers you understand that.

The smart way to do it would be like the Itunes configuration where every song (note) is stored in a folder of that same name, in an album folder ( notebook) which in turn could be stored in a pile of notebooks (artist) folder, so that the architecture of the notes we SEE mirrors the folder architecture, instead of this intentionally obscure architecture.

So why defy all logic and user friendliness? There is always some agenda in obscure program architecture...

I would like to see evernote become it's best product possible because I really like it and can see myself using it for a very very long time, that being if I sense that the developers have my best interest at heart.

In hopes that these constructive criticism will be heard this time.

also, I still do not understand why we can not create a pile of notebooks within a pile of notebooks. That is very unpractical when things need to be ordered within subcategories

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hi lpr. welcome to the forums!

i don't know why evernote has structured things this way, but i think it is fairly common for applications to have their own logical (a matter of perspective, right?) organization. itunes has its own weirdness (depending on your settings), but it is not really analogous anyways, is it?

it never bothered me about the file structure, because i can find things with spotlight (if i want) or even export everything anytime.

but, i think the root of your concern is your intended use: i think you want evernote to perform like dropbox; namely, a kind of cloud locker where you put your files to share. this is a totally valid and understandable desire, but i think evernote is made more for storing things for you to remember than holding things for you to share.

of course, the two are not mutually exclusive (shared folders), but if it were a question of design choices favoring one or the other, i'd say they lean towards the former.

you have a good idea, and i think a lot of people wouldn't mind being able to navigate through their memories without firing up evernote. i suppose, if it didn't impact performance, why not?

as for folders, you can make folders inside of others (stacks). is this what you meant?

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For instance, in some notes, I have added many many photos that I often need to access in their original file format ...

You can right click and select Open With... any changes you make to the file will be saved and reflected in the note.

It has been noted about having where you files are located, I'm happy to bring it up with the team. The folder architecture though is optimized for the program to access it and not for humans, since we're not mainly for data and file storage.

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first of thanks for replying.

I understand that evernote is a different kind of program than dropbox. That is not at all the use I make of it. I work in the visual arts field. I do A LOT of research, both visual and textual. So I used evernote to organize that research so that I can later easily access it. I am basically using it to build my own big encyclopedia using each note as a entry or chapter...

Now, that being said. I am a firm believer that any computer user who really knows how to use a computer will always choose to have easy access to their actual files over no access ( and I am not talking about the external edit version of he file you referred to but the actual one). Searching in spotlight ? that is tedious if I am trying to access the files of images and do not know their file names, a lot slower than " show in finder" . Is it normal that I have easier access to the files of any website online with the web inspector than I have to my own evernote files?

Let's be honest here... I am not saying evernote is not a great product, It really is. But at the moment it functions like these programs that assumes users are computer retarded and that giving them access to their own files would be dangerous. It feels a bit patronizing. In 2012, complete access to folder architecture by HUMANS is so important.

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i don't think it is "retarded." it certainly is not patronizing. it is fairly standard for programs to set their programs up for ease of use within the program, and not for accessibility from outside of it. your email client probably does things this way. it seems fair to ask evernote to rework their program in the way you suggest, and certainly others would benefit from it. however, if it impacts evernote performance, i'd certainly be against it.

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@lpr: So I guess what I am hearing is that is not a good thing to store a user's data in a database (such as the MySQL database used in the Windows client), and it doesn't allow easy access to the contents? Sorry, I'm not buying it. Programs serve their own needs primarily, and provide direct access to internal structures as a secondary concern. Users are not assumed to be 'computer retarded'; however, users are assumed to have put their data into Evernote for some reason (there are many, including cross-device availability, search access, better organization, etc.), and if they wanted direct access to their content, then they'd use another program, or nothing at all (i.e., the file system).

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You are missing my point. Surely it is possible for the program to store all its data in databases, and serve whatever needs it has, while also allowing me to easily access it. I mentioned Itunes as an obvious example of that earlier. The idea is not to be limited. To have both the great features of evernote while also having the flexibility of the plain old files in folders.

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It sounds like you would like Evernote to function like Notational Velocity... each "note" is in a separate file in a folder. I am a "power user" who has been programming since 1978 and professionally since 1989, but I have never once wanted to open an Evernote note in another program. I certainly wouldn't expect Evernote to be able to handle edits done from another program with all the metadata it carries. Of course I don't consider myself the ultimate example user, I'm just sharing my experiences with it.

I guess different people have different expectations but with tens of millions of users I'm guessing they are going for speed and ease-of-use over power-user-hackery. Their choice of format is surely more for making it work rather than an assumption we are mentally deficient or because of some hidden agenda.

I'm just curious, do you have a Wordpress blog, lpr? If so it must drive you absolutely crazy to not be able to get to your articles. ;)

For what it's worth, the only thing worse sometimes than not having access is to have access. I used Aperture 2 to store photos and you can really mess up your entire library if you improperly manipulate the source files! I lost a couple hundred pictures before I figured it out.

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You are missing my point. Surely it is possible for the program to store all its data in databases, and serve whatever needs it has, while also allowing me to easily access it. I mentioned Itunes as an obvious example of that earlier. The idea is not to be limited. To have both the great features of evernote while also having the flexibility of the plain old files in folders.

i think i got your point. i agree it could. and, i even think your idea would be welcomed by other users.

but, as dlu already suggested, there is more to it, and program performance to consider.

my point was that their decision to structure the program this way is neither uncommon nor patronizing. if anything, evernote actually encourages user manipulation, especially through use of applescript and third party apps.

i guess ehat i am saying is that some companies are patronizing, but i don't think it is fair to throw evernote in with them.

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You are missing my point.

Actually, I'm not missing your point at all. I just disagree. I do have some experience in development, nearly 30 years now, so I'm not ill-informed.

Surely it is possible for the program to store all its data in databases, and serve whatever needs it has, while also allowing me to easily access it.

Many things are possible; not all choices are optimal (btw, when you say something like this, it makes me think that you don't know what a database is). A program can reasonably be expected to store its data in a way convenient to the operation and functionality of that program; making that data easily accessible in its source form and easily available to users of the program is a secondary priority for most programs, and apparently that's the case for Evernote, which needs to be able to provide fast searching and access of note data. If it can do that using the file system, then fine; if it can't, and needs to use some closed system like a database, then I don't care.

I mentioned Itunes as an obvious example of that earlier. The idea is not to be limited. To have both the great features of evernote while also having the flexibility of the plain old files in folders.

I mentioned the Windows client as an obvious example where the note data is not easily accessible to users, except through Evernote: it's all stored in a single MySQL database file, no externally visible files or folders. Most users don't care, as near as I can tell, so long as Evernote works well. I am not limited by this arrangement; if I were, then I wouldn't be using Evernote.

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Now, that being said. I am a firm believer that any computer user who really knows how to use a computer will always choose to have easy access to their actual files over no access ........

Let's be honest here... I am not saying evernote is not a great product, It really is. But at the moment it functions like these programs that assumes users are computer retarded and that giving them access to their own files would be dangerous. It feels a bit patronizing. In 2012, complete access to folder architecture by HUMANS is so important.

Actually, the reason I use computers and programs like Evernote is so that I don't have to mess about with the underlying mechanics. I could file papers in a filing cabinet and have personal access to each and every file. I could, on a computer, file every document, picture, web clipping in some sort of folder system. In fact, before Evernote, I used to do that. I certainly don't feel that Evernote is being patronizing. They are in fact, doing precisely the job I've delegated to them. And yes, I really know how to use computers. You're implication that only people who don't understand computers would be okay with not being able to access their data in the way you want is slightly patronizing.

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This is all quite interesting. Thank you for all your opinions. I certainly did not mean to insult anyone, I'm just saying it like I see it. I definitely agree that the main concern for the evernote team should be efficiency. And, it is quite possible that in your personal experience and use of the program you never find yourself wishing for the access I speak of. But I do. Very frequently, mostly to images, group of them. I think an interesting feature could also be a kind of preview-like founction where you could look at all the added images or videos of one note , one at a time instead as in the word document type layout.

But anyway, what I meant by patronizing is that the program does not let us decide for ourselves, does not give us the choice of how to access the data. I always like to have full access when it comes to important information . How many programs have you used in your lifetime that went out of business, out of fashion or that were replaced by better options? Do you really think you will be using evernote for the rest of your life? How likely is that based on your past experience? I could list dozens of programs I once thought were amazing and thought I'd be using for years, that is not the way technology works. Now, Isn' the actual file architecture not a convenient way to make sure people keep using evernote? I'm just saying....

I have never used Aperture, for good reasons I suspect, I use Capture One which is a really great program that understands that users want to keep control over their files, and want the program to be the interface, not the landlord ... If I wanted to start using Lightroom tomorrow nothing would stop me.

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