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mac (Archived) Evernote for Mac 3.0.7 Beta 1

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Hello People of Evernote Mac!

We have a very exciting first beta of 3.0.7. As always, let us know if you find any issues or have any feedback. Feedback on features/improvements in the Beta are preferred, but I won't shun you if you go a little off topic.

Big, New & Shiny

  • We've added in a Word and Character count into the note info popover. That line also gives you the note size.
  • We also have a shortcut to insert date and one to insert time. Cmd+Shift+D inserts date cmd+option+shift+D inserts time. You can also change the date format under Preferences under the new Formatting section. The date formats we are using are what you have under the Mac OS.
  • We also have a nice animation for the Favorites Bar when you drag & drop items to rearrange them.

Minor Improvements & fixes

  • Changing notebook from Note popup doesn't cause note to disappear
  • List of linked notebook in "Modifiable Linked Notebook" section is sorted alphabetically
  • Tags popover in Favorites Bar now reflects tag hierarchy
  • Quick checkbox creation bug fix within formatted text
  • Evernote no longer prompts you to sync when you aren't logged in
  • Login/Registration language/text fixes for Francais & Portugues
  • Inserting checkboxes, horizontal rules, date, and time does preserves formatting attributes

If you've opted into the Betas, you can go to Help >> Check for Updates

If you're not auto-updating, you can get the beta here: http://evernote.s3.a...note_224219.zip

Word & Character Count and Note Size:

Screen%20Shot%202012-02-07%20at%204.02.33%20PM.jpg

Format for Insert Date

Screen%20Shot%202012-02-07%20at%204.07.46%20PM.png

Edited by dlu
forgot about a bugfix
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I like the new beta so far. Small visual remark:

Even though the info-popover is more than big enough for the word "Standard" not to be shortened it is not to being shown in its full length. I don't really see a reason for this...

20120208-peyq2imsapewywph7q4c2bp4m2.jpg

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Very odd, is that German that you're in? I'll look into it

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I currently use EN 3.0.5. If I download the beta zip file, will it install a separate version of EN, or does it overwrite 3.0.5? Does it use the same database?

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I currently use EN 3.0.5. If I download the beta zip file, will it install a separate version of EN, or does it overwrite 3.0.5? Does it use the same database?

It'll be a separate version and use the same database. You won't need to down sync everything again. I recommend removing the old version (you can zip it up somewhere if you want to roll back). But if you have two copies it can cause some issues. The easiest is to actually just check "updated to prerelease" and upgrade that way

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I like the new beta so far. Small visual remark:

Even though the info-popover is more than big enough for the word "Standard" not to be shortened it is not to being shown in its full length. I don't really see a reason for this...

20120208-peyq2imsapewywph7q4c2bp4m2.jpg

I can confirm this behaviour. I have a notebook called "Wiki" - looks like this:

20120208-chg473dgkrdnrrhgdhjd3ukcpg.png

Edit: I realise, I have even shorter two letter titles for notebooks (PR for instance) and they, too, do not display any letters.

Edited by pgdahl

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Juli & pgdahl this is a confirmed bug. Thanks for helping out!

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Hello People of Evernote Mac!

We have a very exciting first beta of 3.0.7. As always, let us know if you find any issues or have any feedback. Feedback on features/improvements in the Beta are preferred, but I won't shun you if you go a little off topic.

  • Changing notebook from Note popup doesn't cause note to disappear

dlu,

This is better than causing the note to disappear, but there is still an unexpected behavior:

Changing the Notebook in Note header field changes the overall filter to the same Notebook.

I can't image why anyone would want the NB filter to change like this.

This makes it very difficult to go though a list of Notes and reassign each Note to a different NB.

Is there some reason you can't just make it behave like EN Win has for a very long time?

  • If the current NB filter is "All NB" then leave the filter unchanged.
  • The NB of the new Note is the users default NB.

BTW, all of this behavior applies whether the NB is changed from the Note Info Popup, or just on the Note header section.

Thanks.

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Hello People of Evernote Mac!

We have a very exciting first beta of 3.0.7. As always, let us know if you find any issues or have any feedback. Feedback on features/improvements in the Beta are preferred, but I won't shun you if you go a little off topic.

  • Changing notebook from Note popup doesn't cause note to disappear

dlu,

This is better than causing the note to disappear, but there is still an unexpected behavior:

Changing the Notebook in Note header field changes the overall filter to the same Notebook.

I can't image why anyone would want the NB filter to change like this.

This makes it very difficult to go though a list of Notes and reassign each Note to a different NB.

Is there some reason you can't just make it behave like EN Win has for a very long time?

  • If the current NB filter is "All NB" then leave the filter unchanged.
  • The NB of the new Note is the users default NB.

BTW, all of this behavior applies whether the NB is changed from the Note Info Popup, or just on the Note header section.

Thanks.

If I can resummarize

1. If the current selection is All Notebooks, when the user changes the notebook, leave the selection as All Notebooks

2. If the current selection is All Notebooks, and the user creates a new note, leave the selection as All Notebooks

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If I can resummarize

1. If the current selection is All Notebooks, when the user changes the notebook [on the Note], leave the selection as All Notebooks

2. If the current selection is All Notebooks, and the user creates a new note, leave the selection as All Notebooks

Yes, I believe that is correct.

I think this is more intuitive. I think most would find it surprising for the NB filter to change just because the NB on the Note was changed.

This way,

  1. the Note which is changed will NOT "disappear".
  2. All Notes will CONTINUE to show in the Note List, regardless of NB
  3. The User can work through many Notes, changing the NB as needed.
  4. If the User prefers to be IN a specific NB, then he/she can always set the NB filter to that NB
  5. It will be consistent with the EN Win behavior

Thanks for listening.

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HI

I have Version 3.0.6 (221382), downloaded from the mac app store. When I go to "Help" to Check for Updates the options is not there. How do you op in for Betas?

Also if I download 3.0.7 beta 1, and after I install it do I just delete 3.0.6 before or after I open 3.0.7? I hope I made since, Thanks for any help.

Gary

;)

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How do you op in for Betas?

Evernote > preferences > software update > (tick) update to beta versions when available

Then check for updates

No need to uninstall 3.0.6

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Hi,

I don't see an options under preferences. I have 4 tabs, General, Sync, Clippings, Shortcuts. and under each one of them, no where is a preferences > software update > (tick) update to beta versions when available .... Thanks so much for your help

Gary ;)

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I uninstalled the ver. from the app. and installed Version 3.0.7 Beta 1 (224219). So far no problems. Thanks again for everyones help.

Gary

:rolleyes:

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Sorry, I posted this elsewhere, then I discovered this topic (in the most obvious place, of course).

I am running the new version 3.07 beta 1 build 224219.

If EN is completely shut down, and not just hidden, I can not open it unless I have a WiFi connection.

Once it is open, I do not appear to need a WiFi connection to continue using it.

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the toolbar customization doesn't work correctly. i can select text-only views, but as soon as i press search, then it changes to icons and text. ideally, the search box would be visible (why isn't it?) and the display i choose wouldn't be changed.

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the toolbar customization doesn't work correctly. i can select text-only views, but as soon as i press search, then it changes to icons and text. ideally, the search box would be visible (why isn't it?) and the display i choose wouldn't be changed.

Sorry, I posted this elsewhere, then I discovered this topic (in the most obvious place, of course).

I am running the new version 3.07 beta 1 build 224219.

If EN is completely shut down, and not just hidden, I can not open it unless I have a WiFi connection.

Once it is open, I do not appear to need a WiFi connection to continue using it.

Thanks for finding these, will try to get them both fixed by the next beta

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I opened a ticket for this based on another user's post - the new iSight note button has gone from the toolbar and can't be added back as it isn't in the optional buttons available.

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I opened a ticket for this based on another user's post - the new iSight note button has gone from the toolbar and can't be added back as it isn't in the optional buttons available.

We moved it from the toolbar to inside of a single note. It wasn't getting much usage up there. If we were wrong about that, and if we've changed the flow too much for some users, I'm happy to revisit that decision.

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I opened a ticket for this based on another user's post - the new iSight note button has gone from the toolbar and can't be added back as it isn't in the optional buttons available.

We moved it from the toolbar to inside of a single note. It wasn't getting much usage up there. If we were wrong about that, and if we've changed the flow too much for some users, I'm happy to revisit that decision.

OK - actually it doesn't bother me personally, I don't think I've ever used it but.....

If you are in Snippet view and you create a new note then you don't have access to that button, so you have to double click to open the note and then it is there....seems like a lot of steps for something that was easily reachable before. It's not like you had a MS Office toolbar with a million buttons and were running out of space....

I'll update the other forummer.

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I opened a ticket for this based on another user's post - the new iSight note button has gone from the toolbar and can't be added back as it isn't in the optional buttons available.

We moved it from the toolbar to inside of a single note. It wasn't getting much usage up there. If we were wrong about that, and if we've changed the flow too much for some users, I'm happy to revisit that decision.

dlu, please don't start moving icons/functions to new locations unless there is a really compelling reason.

Microsoft Office seems to do this with every new version, and it confuses all of the veteran users.

Keep them logically grouped.

Personally, I don't use the iSight note much, so that particular change doesn't affect me much (at this time).

I'm more concerned with the approach in general.

Thanks.

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Can we get the Merging Notes order fixed? This works properly on windows and it's been brought up several times before. Please order notes on merge in the order they were selected, not date created (descending).

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I opened a ticket for this based on another user's post - the new iSight note button has gone from the toolbar and can't be added back as it isn't in the optional buttons available.

We moved it from the toolbar to inside of a single note. It wasn't getting much usage up there. If we were wrong about that, and if we've changed the flow too much for some users, I'm happy to revisit that decision.

dlu, please don't start moving icons/functions to new locations unless there is a really compelling reason.

Microsoft Office seems to do this with every new version, and it confuses all of the veteran users.

Keep them logically grouped.

Personally, I don't use the iSight note much, so that particular change doesn't affect me much (at this time).

I'm more concerned with the approach in general.

Thanks.

We do this type of thing sparingly. No plans to do it often

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Simple problem: it's not syncing anymore with this version.

Syncing has always worked, it's just not working with this new version. Anyone else having this problem?

post-84573-0-63208500-1328884905_thumb.p

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It was working for me last night. I frequently get an error telling me I cannot shut off my computer until Evernote is done syncing (seen this for the last couple versions), even though there is no more syncing to do, but I haven't had any problems with actual syncing. Are you sure you are connected to the Internet? I am on the iPad today, so I can't confirm that my OSX version is working correctly.

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... I frequently get an error telling me I cannot shut off my computer until Evernote is done syncing (seen this for the last couple versions), even though there is no more syncing to do

I've encountered this behavior too.

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I opened a ticket for this based on another user's post - the new iSight note button has gone from the toolbar and can't be added back as it isn't in the optional buttons available.

We moved it from the toolbar to inside of a single note. It wasn't getting much usage up there. If we were wrong about that, and if we've changed the flow too much for some users, I'm happy to revisit that decision.

dlu, after taking a 2nd look at this, I guess I don't understand the benefit or logic of removing the New Audio and New iSight from the available toolbar options.

I don't know how you know it "wasn't getting much usage up there", but removing it makes it even harder to use it.

Please error on the side of giving users more options, not less, and restore the Audio and iSight buttons as options for the toolbar.

Thanks.

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i am also skeptical about this usage argument as well. are there actual metrics out there that show usage data, or is this just a guess? and, more importantly, is any consideration being given to factors that are discouraging use of certain features?

in the case of the created field, the usage argument was brought up, but the search is currently broken on some platforms, and now on the mac platform, the field has been made more difficult to edit. i don't use it because: 1) the search is broken, 2) it is increasingly difficult to use, and 3) it is totally unavailable on the ipad.

i am also skeptical of the whole premise that lack of use means a feature is undesirable. i bet a lot of people never export their notes. i know i rarely do. but, if the export feature wasn't available, i wouldn't be using evernote at all. i would strongly suggest considering the following possibility:

maybe the availablity of a feature, even if people don't use it, leads to greater customer satisfaction. to use a concrete analogy, i don't use the tow package on my car, but i am glad that i have it, just in case. it is added value, with no apparent downside, in my opinion.

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If you are in Snippet view and you create a new note then you don't have access to that button, so you have to double click to open the note and then it is there...

No, being in edit mode is sufficient.

But a litte puzzled myself, though, about this move. I often make sound notes and usually just click the button on the toolbar. It is not a dealbreaker, but the other option was rather convenient. Also not sure I understand why it had to go - is there any programming benefits by not having to support these buttons? Or is it a strict "less is more"-policy to minimise chrome?

dlu, how about an option for a keyboard shortcut to create a new sound note or iSight note as an alternative?

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I see your point, and I'm not arguing that having zero options is the way to go. But the desktop clients already have a huge amount of features the average user doesn't ever see or use. And we still have more things to add in. I'm willing to go around and make simplifications and edit down our features/options as needed, rather than risk feature bloat. We're not always going to get it right and it's always going to be a balancing act, but that is what we're going for. It would definitely be easier to just have options everywhere, but we would sorta of lose flow, philosophy and general fit & trim so to speak

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But the desktop clients already have a huge amount of features the average user doesn't ever see or use.

While "huge" is a relative term, there are clearly a number of us that would disagree with you that EN has a "huge" number of options.

From my perspective, and comparing EN with other Mac apps, EN has a "minimal" number of options.

Providing user options has been discussed at length in other threads. Suffice it to say that, with good design of Options/Perferences layout, it is definitely possible to present quite a few options that are neither confusing nor make for a "cluttered" UI. With good design, layout, and defaults, options can be provided for those who need them without over-taxing or confusing those who do not.

Evernote has stated many times that you want to be the tool for not just millions of users, but billions.

People throughout the world are far too diverse for any one set of options to be the best for all.

You see great debate just within the very small number of users who post in these forums.

So, please, don't try to constrain and control us. You can't predict the workflow and use cases for all of us, which continues to evolve.

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But the desktop clients already have a huge amount of features the average user doesn't ever see or use.

While "huge" is a relative term, there are clearly a number of us that would disagree with you that EN has a "huge" number of options.

From my perspective, and comparing EN with other Mac apps, EN has a "minimal" number of options.

Providing user options has been discussed at length in other threads. Suffice it to say that, with good design of Options/Perferences layout, it is definitely possible to present quite a few options that are neither confusing nor make for a "cluttered" UI. With good design, layout, and defaults, options can be provided for those who need them without over-taxing or confusing those who do not.

Evernote has stated many times that you want to be the tool for not just millions of users, but billions.

People throughout the world are far too diverse for any one set of options to be the best for all.

You see great debate just within the very small number of users who post in these forums.

So, please, don't try to constrain and control us. You can't predict the workflow and use cases for all of us, which continues to evolve.

I'm unconvinced that having a myriad of options is the way to go. Sure we might need more later on, but I'm not looking to front-load that. Anyways, happy to keep tinkering around but just don't expect us to only add more. That inevitably would lead to bloat.

Also, billions of people use Google and that's just a little search box. Even subtract out the people who use the advanced features and I'm pretty sure that's a pretty big number of users. Sometimes simple scales

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dlu, how about an option for a keyboard shortcut to create a new sound note or iSight note as an alternative?

Keyboard shortcut might not be a bad idea, I'll see how much feedback we get on this. The thing about keyboard shortcuts is their lack of discover-ability for new users and non-power users

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If you are in Snippet view and you create a new note then you don't have access to that button, so you have to double click to open the note and then it is there...

No, being in edit mode is sufficient.

Sorry - you are correct. Didn't notice because the icon looks nothing like a camera...

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I'm unconvinced that having a myriad of options is the way to go. Sure we might need more later on, but I'm not looking to front-load that. Anyways, happy to keep tinkering around but just don't expect us to only add more.

That inevitably would lead to bloat.

Sorry, totally disagree that providing your users/customers with a reasonable set of options would "inevitably would lead to bloat".

Totally depends on the ability of your team to create a good design, layout, and defaults.

While no one wants "bloat" (meaning lots of features no one uses/needs), you guys seem too quick to throw this out as an excuse for not giving real consideration to providing a reasonable set of options.

No one has asked for "myriad of options". Again, this is an exaggeration that is often used to dismiss the request for a reasonable set of options.

Also, billions of people use Google and that's just a little search box. Even subtract out the people who use the advanced features and I'm pretty sure that's a pretty big number of users. Sometimes simple scales

Evernote and Google Search are apples and oranges. What is good design for one does not mean it is good design for the other.

Sorry dlu, but this feels like a real cop-out.

dlu, no one is asking for every possible option or feature. We understand bloat, and don't want it.

But what you guys seem to be missing is that there are large blocks of users who have a real need to configure Evernote to work in a way differently than other blocks of users.

We are trying to help you determine what is that "reasonable" set of options.

Frankly, I don't think you can do that if you constrain your requirements input to internal Evernote employees.

It's not about being smart. It's about understanding that different people have different needs.

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Sorry - you are correct. Didn't notice because the icon looks nothing like a camera...

It is an aperture

http://en.wikipedia....1.8_II_lens.jpg

And how many people do you think would recognize it as an aperture and associate it with the Mac iSight camera?

I've got 10 fingers, with plenty left over. ;)

I'm a big photography buff and I didn't recognize it.

Looks like a life ring to me.

Try doing a google on "camera icon" and look at images.

IMO, you'd be much better off picking one of these as a model.

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Evernote gets plenty of input from users, here in the forum and elsewhere. Just because their idea of what "reasonable" is doesn't match yours currently doesn't mean that they are constraining their discussions. Of course, they are going to do what they feel is best; they own the code, and it's their livelihood at stake. And I think that they do a good job engaging folks here (and dlu is a prime example). Apropos to this: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2012/02/listen-to-your-community-but-dont-let-them-tell-you-what-to-do.html. The philosophy is not original to Evernote, and I haven't heard anyone here actually espouse this, but it resonates.

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Evernote gets plenty of input from users, here in the forum and elsewhere. Just because their idea of what "reasonable" is doesn't match yours currently doesn't mean that they are constraining their discussions. Of course, they are going to do what they feel is best; they own the code, and it's their livelihood at stake. And I think that they do a good job engaging folks here (and dlu is a prime example). Apropos to this: http://www.codinghor...what-to-do.html. The philosophy is not original to Evernote, and I haven't heard anyone here actually espouse this, but it resonates.

That is fantastic. My only concern is that I can't find the good 10% ;)

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That is fantastic. My only concern is that I can't find the good 10% ;)

I know that 's because you see the good in *all* posters... :)

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@DLU

No one wants bloat (whatever that is)

-----------------------------

Let's assume that no one here wants Evernote to waste time creating features no one uses or packing the user interface with a lot of options that bewilder users with useless clutter. I think it is clear (at least to me) that some of these options are available in competing products and they are desired by several users on the forums, so someone is going to find them worth using.

Google is a great analogy

-----------------------------

Let's use your example of Google. A simple search box that attracted lots of users, not only because it was simple, but because it worked. This is a great analogy for Evernote.

Google is packed with options

-----------------------------

Google search succeeded (in part), because it grew up while staying trim. Google added advanced search sometime around the turn of the century. Most people probably didn't use it, but many of us did and still do rely on it. Later, they added more customization with preferences, specialized searches of books and scholarly articles, images, etc., etc. Most people probably do just use the search box, but there are also a lot of us who have radically altered our workflows thanks to these incredible services. I can't tell you how revolutionary Google books has been, for example.

The options are not revolutionary

-----------------------------

My point? The feature (search) is exactly the same as it was in the 90s. But, now it has a rich number of options that make it possible to search with just about any parameter you can think of (a slight exaggeration, but it is pretty cool that I can specify so many things). I urge you to re-consider what I would call very innoccuous requests. Most of them don't even require major changes (the frequent requests for encryption of this or that), but merely ask for a field to be editable, a pane to be hidden, font choices, or an existing feature to be applicable to another organizational tool (offline tags and shared tags).

The easy cases

-----------------------------

Or, if you want to tackle the easiest and most obvious use case, the "due date" option in its various manifestations. Why are we fiddling around with the interface when this crucial feature (i don't want it, but the demand is obvious) is still missing? There are some wild suggestions (mine to be able to minimize the Evernote window to less than 1/4 of the screen) and really basic ones that would make a huge difference to users. We argue a lot about these relatively minor changes, and I am not sure why, because you can bury them in the app and please a whole lot of geeks out there without offending new users.

My philosophy

-----------------------------

In short, we are digital hoarders who want to micro-manage our memories. keep the default experience simple, but don't smooth out the wrinkles on everyone's brains for aesthetic reasons. a policy to strip options away in order to avoid feature bloat is one that will drive away users, especially your core ones. Follow Google's example :)

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On bloat - I don't think under 30MB for what the client does is bloat. Maybe not the best metric but I still think that's "consumable" (mot-de-l'an) :-) * and it is too, by all the other metrics I can think of.

To my mind leveraging the (ENML) data stream within a reasonable footprint and with good usability is all I ask. All three of those - leveraging, footprint, and usability - are of course movable feasts. :-)

Martin

* Being on slow "broadband" I think download size IS a useful thing to keep reasonable.

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So I think we're all agreeing on philosophy, just disagreeing about some specifics that we have limited/moved/haven't added. So let's just keep talking about the specifics as they come up. Thanks everyone!

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So I think we're all agreeing on philosophy, just disagreeing about some specifics that we have limited/moved/haven't added. So let's just keep talking about the specifics as they come up. Thanks everyone!

Ummm.... I'm not sure we agree on philosophy :) I want many, many more options and a streamlined interface. I think it can be done, and I sure hope Evernote does it!

Specifics? How about that idea about giving us the option for a "complete" view that would display all of the metadata in the header of a note? You could call it a Hide/Show option, sort of like the other ones we have.

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I agree with GM.

dlu, for another great specific example, you may want to query jbenson2 about how he uses the EN Win options to show/hide various panels during his workflow to both streamline/simplify the UI while at the same time quickly and briefly showing a panel to accomplish a specific function (like Assign Tags).

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On-going Bug Report

Please review the EN Mac Search Bugs reported in Search is Broken, but on Which Platform?

  • Specifically the BEFORE date search has been broken on EN Mac since 2010
    • -created
    • -updated
    • UI Attributes for Created and Last Modified Before dates

    [*]This makes it impossible to do searches for things like:

    • Created on Today
    • Created on/before 12/31/2009 (so we can set an "Archive" tag)
    • Find Notes Created/Updated within a specific date range

Search is the 2nd half of the Evernote promise to remember all our memories and retrieve them when needed.

This is a major hole in the Search engine. Please fix it ASAP.

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On-going Bug Report

Please review the EN Mac Search Bugs reported in Search is Broken, but on Which Platform?

  • Specifically the BEFORE date search has been broken on EN Mac since 2010
    • -created
    • -updated
    • UI Attributes for Created and Last Modified Before dates

    [*]This makes it impossible to do searches for things like:

    • Created on Today
    • Created on/before 12/31/2009 (so we can set an "Archive" tag)
    • Find Notes Created/Updated within a specific date range

Search is the 2nd half of the Evernote promise to remember all our memories and retrieve them when needed.

This is a major hole in the Search engine. Please fix it ASAP.

Yep, that's been noted. Haven't I responded on that thread?

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Yep, that's been noted. Haven't I responded on that thread?

Yes, thanks -- looks like we cross posted. :-)

I'm not sure exactly what "noted" means. Just want to make sure you guys know (and hopefully agree) it is a major problem in getting to our memories.

I'm concerned since it was originally reported over two years ago.

But that was before your "shift". So now you have an opportunity to be a hero! :)

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Haha, I'm just the forum representative. The engineers doing the hardwork are the heroes.

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Minor Glitch in Changing Dates

First, thanks for making the date entry format be flexible.

I can just type "10/01/2011", for example, and the date is set correctly.

The Glitch:

When I type in just a date (Created or Updated), EN appends a time of the current time.

Seems like if I don't specify a time, the time should be set to "00:00".

Not a big deal as I rarely have a need for time when I am manually setting the date.

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Minor Glitch in Changing Dates

First, thanks for making the date entry format be flexible.

I can just type "10/01/2011", for example, and the date is set correctly.

The Glitch:

When I type in just a date (Created or Updated), EN appends a time of the current time.

Seems like if I don't specify a time, the time should be set to "00:00".

Not a big deal as I rarely have a need for time when I am manually setting the date.

That's actually not a glitch. We take the time that was previously there. So if you're created/updated date was January 20, 2012 10:40pm and you type in 10/01/2011 the new date/time will be October 1, 2011 10:40pm. We assume that if you enter a new date, you just want to change the date but not change the time. Same thing if you just type in a time. We change the time, but not the date.

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January 20, 2012 10:40pm

I'm just grateful that EN supports 24 hour time on its clients. Wasn't always the case.

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That's actually not a glitch. We take the time that was previously there. So if you're created/updated date was January 20, 2012 10:40pm and you type in 10/01/2011 the new date/time will be October 1, 2011 10:40pm. We assume that if you enter a new date, you just want to change the date but not change the time. Same thing if you just type in a time. We change the time, but not the date.

Do you think this is what most users would expect?

If I edit the date/time field, and just change the date leaving the time in place as is, then that would mean I want to retain the time.

If I clear the entire date/time field and enter just a date, then you have no basis for time other than start of day.

Every other app I have ever used works like this.

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Do you think this is what most users would expect?

If I edit the date/time field, and just change the date leaving the time in place as is, then that would mean I want to retain the time.

If I clear the entire date/time field and enter just a date, then you have no basis for time other than start of day.

Every other app I have ever used works like this.

The start of day is just another arbitrary point anyways. We usually default to it cuz it has nice zeros, but it isn't like anyone really enjoyed VCR's flashing 12:00AM all the time. We could also take the current time, but that seemed awkward with editing the updated date.

The current behavior is what we think is the most useful.

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The start of day is just another arbitrary point anyways. We usually default to it cuz it has nice zeros, but it isn't like anyone really enjoyed VCR's flashing 12:00AM all the time. We could also take the current time, but that seemed awkward with editing the updated date.

The current behavior is what we think is the most useful.

Were you traumatized as a child with flashing VCRs or what? :P This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've made that reference, which makes no sense whatsoever.

When you say "We usually default to it cuz it has nice zeros" that also doesn't make sense if you mean application developers.

When the user provides you with only date in a date/time field, it is pure logic that the time is set to start of day because you have no other information. If you will have an open mind an look at any other app or DB you will see that they all assume time of 00:00.

Frankly, I don't really care about this particular field, but it is your design logic that concerns me. You are assigning a time that has absolutely no meaning to the user. It is the User's data. Why to you feel compelled to override what the user has entered? If the user wants a specific time he/she will enter it.

dlu, there are much bigger fish to fry than the time on the Created date field. I don't want to take any more of your or my time discussing this minor issue. So just feel free to proceed as you see fit in regards to this issue without any further justification. I certainly didn't intend to take up as much time as I have.

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The start of day is just another arbitrary point anyways. We usually default to it cuz it has nice zeros, but it isn't like anyone really enjoyed VCR's flashing 12:00AM all the time. We could also take the current time, but that seemed awkward with editing the updated date.

The current behavior is what we think is the most useful.

Were you traumatized as a child with flashing VCRs or what? :P This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've made that reference, which makes no sense whatsoever.

Note to self: get new and better examples. Also explain them better.

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dlu, how about an option for a keyboard shortcut to create a new sound note or iSight note as an alternative?

Keyboard shortcut might not be a bad idea, I'll see how much feedback we get on this. The thing about keyboard shortcuts is their lack of discover-ability for new users and non-power users

I was only prompted to suggest this because the option to create a new audio or iSight note is available from the "File" menu - as (almost) the two only options without associated keywords. And since these are now the only way to create audio and iSight notes the way the removed shortcut buttons did, it seems obvious.

I am pretty sure having to click the options in a menu is already not very discover-able and - at least - not really worth it for power users either.

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dlu, how about an option for a keyboard shortcut to create a new sound note or iSight note as an alternative?

Keyboard shortcut might not be a bad idea, I'll see how much feedback we get on this. The thing about keyboard shortcuts is their lack of discover-ability for new users and non-power users

I am pretty sure having to click the options in a menu is already not very discover-able and - at least - not really worth it for power users either.

Good point

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Have you addressed the "Migrating Notes from Previous Version" problem on OSX Lion with this new version ???

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Have you addressed the "Migrating Notes from Previous Version" problem on OSX Lion with this new version ???

I see that you've posted in these two threads about the same issue.

It sounds like you should open a support ticket, I suspect the issue is somehow specific to your setup

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Have you addressed the "Migrating Notes from Previous Version" problem on OSX Lion with this new version ???

I see that you've posted in these two threads about the same issue.

http://discussion.ev...__1#entry125578

http://discussion.ev...__1#entry125522

It sounds like you should open a support ticket, I suspect the issue is somehow specific to your setup

Thanks dlu, have replied on the other topic. Support's suggestion was the same as the fix in the forum but EN keeps returning with the "migrating" message after every reboot. I'll open another support ticket and see if they can isolate this somehow.

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I'll chime in -- I do NOT like how changing the notebook of a note immediately jumps you into that new notebook view. I send all my new notes to an inbox and process them quickly, sending them to their correct notebooks. The jump after each edit really slows me down.

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I'll chime in -- I do NOT like how changing the notebook of a note immediately jumps you into that new notebook view. I send all my new notes to an inbox and process them quickly, sending them to their correct notebooks. The jump after each edit really slows me down.

I knew there would be someone who didn't like the change... sorry!

As an alternative, you can right click and use the "move to notebook" option as well as dragging one or more notes onto the notebook in the left panel.

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I'll chime in -- I do NOT like how changing the notebook of a note immediately jumps you into that new notebook view. I send all my new notes to an inbox and process them quickly, sending them to their correct notebooks. The jump after each edit really slows me down.

Since you brought it up, I might as well say my piece as well. I, too, am not a big fan of this new behaviour that sends me jumping from notebook to notebook. I find it both counter-intuitive and inconsequent:

I know no other programs with inboxes that behave like this - say, if we compare with a mail app, I archive or move a mail from my inbox to another folder, I stay in the inbox. And I realise that I can just do what dlu suggests, but... why am I not sent to the target notebook using those methods, then?

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Since you brought it up, I might as well say my piece as well. I, too, am not a big fan of this new behaviour that sends me jumping from notebook to notebook. I find it both counter-intuitive and inconsequent:

I know no other programs with inboxes that behave like this - say, if we compare with a mail app, I archive or move a mail from my inbox to another folder, I stay in the inbox. And I realise that I can just do what dlu suggests, but... why am I not sent to the target notebook using those methods, then?

The thought is that if you're on an individual note, having it disappear before your eyes is a little weird. Since you're acting within the note pane, we assume you're focus is there and that's the context you'd want to keep.

The other actions happen in the middle pane or between the middle pane and left pane, so we assume you want to keep that as context.

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I'll chime in -- I do NOT like how changing the notebook of a note immediately jumps you into that new notebook view. I send all my new notes to an inbox and process them quickly, sending them to their correct notebooks. The jump after each edit really slows me down.

I knew there would be someone who didn't like the change... sorry!

As an alternative, you can right click and use the "move to notebook" option as well as dragging one or more notes onto the notebook in the left panel.

As previously discussed with DLU on Feb 8, 2012, the best solution IMO is to make EN Mac behave like EN Win has for a very long time:

The problem arises because EN Mac changes the NB filter when the NB on the Note is changed. This should never happen.

Just so that everyone knows, here is the behavior of EN Win, and what I believe should be the behavior of EN Mac:

  • When User creates a NEW Note
    • IF current NB filter is "All Notebooks" THEN
      • Set Note NB to the users default NB
      • Do NOT change the NB filter

      [*]ELSE

      • Set Note NB to the current NB
      • Do NOT change the NB filter

      [*]There is NO change in the displayed list of Note, except to add the new Note.

  • When changing the NB on the Note
    • IF current NB filter is "All Notebooks" THEN
      • Do NOT change the NB filter
      • Continue to display the Note because NB filter is for "All Notebooks"

      [*]ELSE

      • Do NOT change the NB Filter
      • Note is removed from display because it does not match the NB filter
        (i.e., the Note is "moved" to another NB)

Please feel free to post your comments if you see any issues with this behavior.

If a change is to be made, we want a solution that will work best for most users.

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JMichael,

Is there any way you could do a short screencast of what it looks like on Windows? I can't picture it.

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JMichael,

Is there any way you could do a short screencast of what it looks like on Windows? I can't picture it.

I can see that would be helpful, but unfortunately I don't have the tools, or really the time, to do that well.

Perhaps if you could ask questions about what you don't understand, I can try to express it in other words, and/or maybe a screen shot or two.

Let me try this. It boils down to NEVER change the notebook filter when the user changes the notebook on the Note itself (using the dropdown). By doing this, it makes sure that:

  1. A new Note does NOT "disappear" when the Notebook is changed on the Note, and the Notebook filter is set to "All Notebooks"
  2. When you do have a notebook filter set, and you are reviewing a list of Notes in order to reassign them to a correct notebook, when you change notebook on the Note, the Note will disappear because it has been "moved" to a different notebook (like in the Outlook Inbox)

Does this help?

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The thought is that if you're on an individual note, having it disappear before your eyes is a little weird. Since you're acting within the note pane, we assume you're focus is there and that's the context you'd want to keep.

The other actions happen in the middle pane or between the middle pane and left pane, so we assume you want to keep that as context.

And - I assume - you're also assuming that I am working on the note in it's own window. That's the only situation in which the current behaviour makes any sense to me.

Edit: Or thinking about it. No, that doesn't make sense there either, since there's no reason for the note to disappear just because I change the notebook. I don't quite remember how it used to work since I hardly ever work with notes in their own windows.

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And - I assume - you're also assuming that I am working on the note in it's own window. That's the only situation in which the current behaviour makes any sense to me.

If the note is in it's own separate window, then it doesn't change the notebook you're in, in the mail evernote window

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JMichael,

Is there any way you could do a short screencast of what it looks like on Windows? I can't picture it.

I can see that would be helpful, but unfortunately I don't have the tools, or really the time, to do that well.

Perhaps if you could ask questions about what you don't understand, I can try to express it in other words, and/or maybe a screen shot or two.

Let me try this. It boils down to NEVER change the notebook filter when the user changes the notebook on the Note itself (using the dropdown). By doing this, it makes sure that:

  1. A new Note does NOT "disappear" when the Notebook is changed on the Note, and the Notebook filter is set to "All Notebooks"
  2. When you do have a notebook filter set, and you are reviewing a list of Notes in order to reassign them to a correct notebook, when you change notebook on the Note, the Note will disappear because it has been "moved" to a different notebook (like in the Outlook Inbox)

Does this help?

That does help and it makes sense. I agree.

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Can we get a fix to the bug that causes Evernote to crash whenever I open the context menu on OS X? Evernote is becoming increasingly unusable because I cannot open attachments. If I just select the attachment, and drag it to Preview, then sometimes the attachment opens, but making a change, and saving it does not apply the change to the attachment back in the note.

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It shouldn't be crashing, if you could open a support ticket, they'll ask for activity logs etc. That'll help us diagnose

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dlu, how about an option for a keyboard shortcut to create a new sound note or iSight note as an alternative?

Keyboard shortcut might not be a bad idea, I'll see how much feedback we get on this. The thing about keyboard shortcuts is their lack of discover-ability for new users and non-power users

I am pretty sure having to click the options in a menu is already not very discover-able and - at least - not really worth it for power users either.

Good point

Also, this topic, , made me realize that to record audio in Evernote in a new note, you need to use 4 mouse clicks on the latest Mac bet. Four! (Unless you don't mind the tedious mouse travel to File > New Audio Note).

1. Click the "Create new note" button (If you're clever, you can skip a click with ⌘N - but it's still a step.)

2. Click anywhere in the new note to activate the editing menu

3. Click the microphone icon

4. Click the Record button

I wonder, if this sacrifice of accessibility was taking into account when moving the icons from the main menu.

Also, to be completely obnoxious about it: The Windows client has keyboard shortcuts for creating audio and webcam notes :)

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Also, to be completely obnoxious about it: The Windows client has keyboard shortcuts for creating audio and webcam notes :)

That sentence causes some serious love/hate.

I also noticed that the other day, and was hoping it wouldn't get pointed out before I figured out what to do about it. Oh well, anyways I'm still at the drawing board

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Also, to be completely obnoxious about it: The Windows client has keyboard shortcuts for creating audio and webcam notes :)

That sentence causes some serious love/hate.

I also noticed that the other day, and was hoping it wouldn't get pointed out before I figured out what to do about it. Oh well, anyways I'm still at the drawing board

Ah, please take that remark with a grain of salt. I am not a proponent of the logic that says that because something is in the Windows version it should by all means also be in the Mac ditto. It was just an interesting discovery I made. The irony is, I made the discovery after discovering that I have no reason but to be very happy the Mac version is so much different than the Windows version.

See, I have never used Evernote on Windows, since I didn't start using Evernote until after I switched to Mac. But having another reason to boot up Windows, I thought it would be interesting to see what the Windows version looks like and downloaded the latest beta. And I have to say, I was absolutely gobsmacked to see how much clutter there is in the Windows interface. It is an overwhelmingly ugly mess of buttons, drop downs and links. And it quite simply looks like something I'd never use (and I wonder if this may in fact be the reason I never *did* use it in the first place...). Only happy to get back to the slick, clean Mac interface.

In other words: I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available. But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will wind up in the opposite ditch than the Windows version and become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

With that said: Keep up the good work!

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In other words: I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available.

Ah, therein lies the rub. When you say "the features we need the most" I suspect you mean I need the most". If each of us could have only the features we want, then each person would think the UI is not "cluttered". The challenge is to provide a tool that is functionally useful for a broad range of users (60M and counting) while not having a UI that is "cluttered".

But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will . . . become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

I apologize for the edit, but I wanted to make clear the point that you are making, which a number of us have also made: the danger of becoming "pretty but useless"

Another way of saying this a design principle that is well known and accepted by many, if not most: form follows function.

I submit we are a long way from "pretty but useless". However, I share your concerns that some of the recent changes tend to emphasize good looks over usefulness. And, there have been several features that have been removed that quite a few users would like to have restored.

It is in fact a difficult design challenge to provide a lot of functionality without appearing cluttered. But I believe the Mac team can meet this challenge.

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In other words: I appreciate the quest to minimise clutter and keeping the interface slick while leaving the features we need the most readily available.

Ah, therein lies the rub. When you say "the features we need the most" I suspect you mean I need the most". If each of us could have only the features we want, then each person would think the UI is not "cluttered". The challenge is to provide a tool that is functionally useful for a broad range of users (60M and counting) while not having a UI that is "cluttered".

I did write we. Don't suspect or assume anything, I write what I mean. I am annoyed that you insinuate that it would not occur to me that there are other Evernote Mac users to me with vastly different needs and preferences making it a very different task for the developers to please everyone. That said, I disagree with the notion that just because all my favourite features were where I wanted them, it would automatically be an uncluttered interface. I do not believe that is necessarily true.

But I feel the need to chime in when something useful are removed from the interface without - as it appears from this end - no really compelling reason (at least, one has not been disclosed). It makes me worry, Mac Evernote will . . . become pretty, but useless. That is why I have been giving this arguably minor issue this much attention and feedback.

I apologize for the edit, but I wanted to make clear the point that you are making, which a number of us have also made: the danger of becoming "pretty but useless"

Another way of saying this a design principle that is well known and accepted by many, if not most: form follows function.

Make your own points and let me worry about making my points clear. My apologies for not giving satisfaction this time around.

I submit we are a long way from "pretty but useless". However, I share your concerns that some of the recent changes tend to emphasize good looks over usefulness. And, there have been several features that have been removed that quite a few users would like to have restored.

It is in fact a difficult design challenge to provide a lot of functionality without appearing cluttered. But I believe the Mac team can meet this challenge.

I completely agree, and I have confidence in the Mac team as well. Was this another point you thought I didn't make clear enough?

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@pgdahl:

I was trying to agree with and support the main points of your post, but I obviously was not clear enough.

One point though: I don't know how you would know the features "we" need the most.

You certainly don't know the features I need the most. So, I don't know who the "we" is that you refer to.

Frankly, I rarely need the audio or snapshot features, so I am only concerned about the design approach in general.

However, I do see how the loss of these buttons would adversely impact those that do need them.

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I appreciate the votes of confidence.

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evernote on the mac has a lot of things going for it, in my opinion, and the developers have provided us with a great experience.

in the next release, i hope there will be some consideration given to customizing the interface for our unique situations. of course, a default view is expected and desired, but even just the ability to hide/show information (without a popup) would be a major step forward.

if we could scale the window from a tiny box in the corner to full screen, from showing nothing but the title and a few other fields to all of the metadata in the header, it would be a really impressive design (in my opinion) no matter what your workflow is like.

missing features, popups, a single unuform view, and removal of persistent settings (we have to click around now to see the metadata in each and every note) gets some of the look right but loses the functionality.

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Also, to be completely obnoxious about it: The Windows client has keyboard shortcuts for creating audio and webcam notes :)

That sentence causes some serious love/hate.

I also noticed that the other day, and was hoping it wouldn't get pointed out before I figured out what to do about it. Oh well, anyways I'm still at the drawing board

Oh. So you answered that question by removing the shortcuts from the Windows client? (I don't know when it happened, just discovered by chance in 4.6.1.) What is it that is so bad about these particular keyboard shortcuts they cannot be there?

I don't get it.

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Oh. So you answered that question by removing the shortcuts from the Windows client? (I don't know when it happened, just discovered by chance in 4.6.1.) What is it that is so bad about these particular keyboard shortcuts they cannot be there?

The current Windows beta (4.6.1.7705) has shortcuts for both of those:

New Audio Note: Ctrl+Shift+U

New Webcam Note: Ctrl+Shift+W

These are shown on the Favorites Bar's New Note dropdown.

I don't get it.

...

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Ah. My bad. That button is not very easily discoverable. It's not on the Favorites Bar, though. You had me staring for a while.

No reason to ... my remark about not getting it. The shortcuts are still inexplicably missing from the Mac version. I don't get it.

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