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marcelo

web REQUEST: Choosing a Thumbnail

Idea

I do like the new layout with larger thumbnails, except for one thing: Evernote seems to choose as thumbnail the largest image within a note. But it is rather annoying, for it seldom coincides with the image which would enable me to recognize a note at once. Can I somehow force Evernote to use a specific image as thumbail?

Marcelo

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The largest smallest dimension?

Yeah. For example, if you have 3 images with the following dimensions:

75x100

100x400

200x300

The "smallest" dimensions are 75, 100, and 200, respectively. We're going to use the image with the largest of those "smallest" dimensions (i.e., 200).

There are probably better ways to describe that algorithm, but that's how we've been describing it internally.

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No.

Thank you for your prompt reply. Does it mean the only way to force an image to appear as thumbnail is to make sure that it is the heaviest one within the note?

Thanks

Marcelo

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Thank you for your prompt reply. Does it mean the only way to force an image to appear as thumbnail is to make sure that it is the heaviest one within the note?

You're welcome. I don't know how EN selects the thumbnail.

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I don't know how EN selects the thumbnail.

We select the image with the largest smallest dimension. There are some other rules, but that's the main one.

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We select the image with the largest smallest dimension. There are some other rules, but that's the main one.

The largest smallest dimension?

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The largest smallest dimension?

:)

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OK, got it. I think anything else would have too many words, and "largest smallest" probably works because it's short and easy to remember (and apparently self-contradictory). Cool.

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Yeah. For example, if you have 3 images with the following dimensions:

75x100

100x400

200x300

The "smallest" dimensions are 75, 100, and 200, respectively. We're going to use the image with the largest of those "smallest" dimensions (i.e., 200).

There are probably better ways to describe that algorithm, but that's how we've been describing it internally.

Thanks for the explanation. I guess if someone really wanted to promote a specific image, they could use a photo editor to re-size the photos. That's too much work for me.

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The largest smallest dimension?

There are probably better ways to describe that algorithm, but that's how we've been describing it internally.

You learn something every day. :)

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Yeah. For example, if you have 3 images with the following dimensions:

75x100

100x400

200x300

The "smallest" dimensions are 75, 100, and 200, respectively. We're going to use the image with the largest of those "smallest" dimensions (i.e., 200).

There are probably better ways to describe that algorithm, but that's how we've been describing it internally.

One way to express this in a more definitive way is the image with the largest width, assuming that your example you gave is in the order of width x height.

However, it is not clear that this is actually what you mean.

For example, what if we add an image that is 250x150?

Then the list would be:

75x100

100x400

200x300

250x150

Does that mean that EN would now select the last image (250x150) for the thumbnail?

Well, I'm going out of the business of making suggestions, but as one of the last, does it make sense to anyone at Evernote to choose the first image in the Note for the thumbnail?

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An alternative is the image with the largest number of pixels. This is a good predictor of importance of the image to the note's content.

e.g.

75x100=7500

100x400=40000

200x300=60000

250x150=37500

Largest -> 200x300=60000

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One way to express this in a more definitive way is the image with the largest width, assuming that your example you gave is in the order of width x height.

My list is ordered by increasing size of smallest dimension. We don't want to pick the image with the largest width, since that would result in us selecting things like graphical horizontal lines (e.g., 600x1) for some notes, which isn't very useful.

For example, what if we add an image that is 250x150?

Then the list would be:

75x100

100x400

200x300

250x150

Does that mean that EN would now select the last image (250x150) for the thumbnail?

No, we choose the image with the largest smallest dimension. To keep my list sorted by increasing size of smallest dimension, your new entry should be third:

75x100

100x400

150x250

200x300

So we're going to pick the last one again (200x300), because it's still the image with the "largest smallest" dimension.

does it make sense to anyone at Evernote to choose the first image in the Note for the thumbnail?

It does make sense sometimes, but it doesn't make sense a significant number of times too. Some part of the algorithm needs to factor in the dimensions and/or sizes of the images or else you end up with non-useful thumbnails (see 600x1 example above).

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An alternative is the image with the largest number of pixels. This is a good predictor of importance of the image to the note's content.

e.g.

75x100=7500

100x400=40000

200x300=60000

250x150=37500

Largest -> 200x300=60000

Yeah, that's probably another good algorithm (and note that in this specific case, that is the image we choose). I think we're reasonably happy with the algorithm we're using; they're all subject to false positives, unfortunately, but I think our algorithm ends up choosing a fairly representative image a lot of the time.

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Well, it does have the advantage of being easier to explain. Which usually results in a more likely to be correct implementation.

The best, and most likely, implementation of either algorithm would pick the first "largest" in the event of a tie.

My guess is that in most cases (>90%) either algorithm would pick the same image for the thumbnail.

Hmmm.

Not sure which algorithm is more likely to pick the squarer image. Squarer usually results in a more recognizable thumbnail. Probably a toss up.

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Well, it does have the advantage of being easier to explain. Which usually results in a more likely to be correct implementation.

Hmmm, bubble sort is easy to explain, and it's not hard to get a correct implementation of a bubble sort, but so what? Implementation is not usually the problem, it's choice of algorithm, and bubble sort is of course notoriously poor for anything but the most trivial uses.

The best, and most likely, implementation of either algorithm would pick the first "largest" in the event of a tie.

My guess is that in most cases (>90%) either algorithm would pick the same image for the thumbnail.

Hmmm.

Not sure which algorithm is more likely to pick the squarer image. Squarer usually results in a more recognizable thumbnail. Probably a toss up.

I think you're right -- there are probably fail cases in any algorithm that will be used to pick a thumbnail candidate out of a collection of images. I think that making a good guess is fine, but the best case for users would probably be to allow them to designate which image to use if the guess is not the one that they want.

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bubble sort
:lol:

Nah. This is a single pass scan. No sorting. Just compares.

And, bubble sort, can NOT be fully described in a single, non-compound, sentence.

----------

Ummm. Re-read your comment. Never mind my comment about single pass. You were using it as an general example, not a specific example. :?

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Right -- just trying to illustrate that things that are easy to describe may not be the best choice. :lol:

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Sometimes I have multiple images in a post, and evernote seems to pretty randomly choose which one to use as a thumbnail. Is there any way to pick which one it is? Sometimes the photo chosen is no help at all, so I would like to be able to change it, either by selecting which one or being able to determine what position to put the one I want in (i.e. first or last) so it gets picked.

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Can someone tell me why evernote doesn't have this ability yet? This seems incredibly near-sighted.

I read on someone else's post that evernote uses an algorithm to choose the thumbnail image depending on what the largest image is, it uses that one as the thumbnail.

I want the algorithm to conform to ME, not the other way around.

:)

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I don't know why but I'm sure it's much easier to have a standard system on the servers that does this rather than implement this feature across all the platforms EN lives on. You don't have to like it, but that's the way it is. (shrug)

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But it doesn't seem like that because I can go in and edit my notes to my heart's content. So if I can edit my notes as much as I'd like, I feel like that would be even more difficult to accompany than the ability to change the note's thumbnail. It seems silly that I can have all of this customization to my note, but NOT the thumbnail image. It would be much easier to have a standard system on the servers that doesn't let you edit your note at all. Less coding to be flexible with the whims of its users.

So since this is NOT the case, it seems strange that the ability to edit the thumbnail of the note is not available, while I can edit my note to any degree I wish (something arguably more complex to account for than changing a thumbnail).

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How do you assign a specific thumbnail to a note?

I have many images in many notes. When there is more than one image, EN does not always take the topmost (first) image as the note's thumbnail image. In addition, even if you "trick" EN to use a given image as the thumbnail by creating the note with only one image initially then adding others after the thumbnail has been generated, EN will sometimes reassign the thumbnail image to one of the subsequent images within the note.

This is frustrating when these thumbnails are instrumental in quickly identifying notes, but there seems to be no predictable way to control them.

Perhaps this should be a field in the note header area where you "Click to set thumbnail image" would work.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Steve & Angela

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