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(Archived) Lion Support


ethank

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I have to agree with those who are showing a lack of sympathy for the disaffected Lion user ... after all, the current version of Lion isn't even a public beta: it's an early developer release, intended for use by those who write OS X software, and on machines that are reserved for development and testing. To use such software on a mission-critical machine is extremely foolish, and is contrary to the intent of Apple's dev program. And to expect third-party developers to drop everything in support of that foolhardiness is the height of irrational arrogance.

DevonNote: Works

Yojimbo: Works

Notebook: Works

Every other app I run: Works

Evernote: Crashes immediately upon loading.

Seems to me the arrogant one is the one who thinks all the problems will be solved when the OS goes gold.

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It's also a good time to check out some of the alternatives to Evernote. As a big Evernote fan, it pains me to say that. Given the importance of how this app is used, a stand-offish attitude by the developers may not be the best course of action.

You are kidding right?

How many other apps that you use have the CEO and top techie contributing on their public forums?

Honestly, one of the most foolish things I've read in a long time. Thanks for cheering me up.

When Lion is released to the public, then I am sure Evernote will support it. Until then I think Dave's rather unambiguous comments above are pretty much crystal.

Stand-offish! Brilliant, what a numpty.

So now the fanbois are resulting to name calling? No, one of the most foolish things I've read is your response. The things I've read in this thread are indeed stand-offish. To paraphrase "you were stupid to install a beta OS (because you have to test your apps or because you need to know what's coming next) Gee, sorry about your luck. We know the Evernote app for Mac crashes upon load and you can't get to your vital information using the app. No, we're not interested in helping you. You'll have to wait a few months to use the app again. Nevermind that premium subscription you paid for."

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Because as previously stated, if you're using Lion, Evernote crashes upon opening. In other words, the native app is useless and apparently will be until the OS comes out of Beta.

As I'm sure you know, using beta releases means there is no guarantee everything will be working the way it should be.

To paraphrase "you were stupid to install a beta OS (because you have to test your apps or because you need to know what's coming next) Gee, sorry about your luck. We know the Evernote app for Mac crashes upon load and you can't get to your vital information using the app. No, we're not interested in helping you. You'll have to wait a few months to use the app again. Nevermind that premium subscription you paid for."

Suggest you brush up on your "paraphrasing" & leave the drama at the door. Maybe if EN had as many employees as say, Google, they would have the time & resources to support beta OSs. Until then, they've taken a very reasonable approach.

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Because as previously stated, if you're using Lion, Evernote crashes upon opening. In other words, the native app is useless and apparently will be until the OS comes out of Beta.

As I'm sure you know, using beta releases means there is no guarantee everything will be working the way it should be.

To paraphrase "you were stupid to install a beta OS (because you have to test your apps or because you need to know what's coming next) Gee, sorry about your luck. We know the Evernote app for Mac crashes upon load and you can't get to your vital information using the app. No, we're not interested in helping you. You'll have to wait a few months to use the app again. Nevermind that premium subscription you paid for."

Suggest you brush up on your "paraphrasing" & leave the drama at the door.

Of course, I know what Beta means. I don't expect it to work perfectly. I DO however expect it to work to some degree. And I certainly expect the developers to care about loyal, enthusiastic and paying customers.

About the paraphrasing, "drama"... seriously? Ok then, tell me where I'm wrong. I don't want to attack this otherwise excellent application or its developers. I want to be able to use it as intended. Care about fixing the problem and I'll be a fan again. Otherwise, I need to find a new way to access my developer notes on the machine with the Beta OS on it without resorting to the slow and clunky web version.

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Nevermind that premium subscription you paid for."

As best as I can tell, a premium subscription gives you more features, more capacity and better support, but it doesn't promise that Evernote software designed for one operating system will work on future, unreleased versions. And I'll bet if you look at the fine print for Lion, you'll probably find that they don't promise that software designed for earlier versions of OS/X will work on Lion, either. In any case, file a support ticket -- it's what you're paying for.

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Nevermind that premium subscription you paid for."

As best as I can tell, a premium subscription gives you more features, more capacity and better support, but it doesn't promise that Evernote software designed for one operating system will work on future, unreleased versions. And I'll bet if you look at the fine print for Lion, you'll probably find that they don't promise that software designed for earlier versions of OS/X will work on Lion, either. In any case, file a support ticket -- it's what you're paying for.

Hiding behind legalese won't help you delight a customer, solving their problem will. I know what Evernote's obligations are, that's why you've never heard me ask for a refund. Again though, the message I'm hearing is "you've made your own bed, now sleep in it."

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. . . Because as previously stated, if you're using Lion, Evernote crashes upon opening. In other words, the native app is useless and apparently will be until the OS comes out of Beta.

cleesmith2,

Just curious, what is your imperative to upgrade to Lion, an OS still in Beta?

I assume you know that Evernote is not the only app that may not work with a new Beta OS, especially in the early Beta releases. That's one of the purposes of releasing Beta versions -- to identify, and then fix, incompatibilities with existing applications. But the OS fix may not come until the RTM version.

Basically using a Beta OS for real work is completely at the user's own risk. It is rarely worth the risk.

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Hiding behind legalese won't help you delight a customer, solving their problem will. I know what Evernote's obligations are, that's why you've never heard me ask for a refund. Again though, the message I'm hearing is "you've made your own bed, now sleep in it."

Seems a perfectly reasonable response. The recommendation is to uninstall the beta Lion, and wait until the official release, which was already suggested in the thread, as you already know. Or you can access your valuable notes via the web interface. Regardless, good luck with your quest for delight.

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. . . Because as previously stated, if you're using Lion, Evernote crashes upon opening. In other words, the native app is useless and apparently will be until the OS comes out of Beta.

cleesmith2,

Just curious, what is your imperative to upgrade to Lion, an OS still in Beta?

I assume you know that Evernote is not the only app that may not work with a new Beta OS, especially in the early Beta releases. That's one of the purposes of releasing Beta versions -- to identify, and then fix, incompatibilities with existing applications. But the OS fix may not come until the RTM version.

Basically using a Beta OS for real work is completely at the user's own risk. It is rarely worth the risk.

I've explained my imperative already in this thread. You assume correctly. I do indeed know the risks with a beta OS. Oddly enough, Evernote is the only app I'm having this kind of problem with. That suggests a problem that simply waiting for the OS to come out of Beta will not solve. This is a big reason I'm disappointed with the responses I'm reading here.

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Hiding behind legalese won't help you delight a customer, solving their problem will. I know what Evernote's obligations are, that's why you've never heard me ask for a refund. Again though, the message I'm hearing is "you've made your own bed, now sleep in it."

Seems a perfectly reasonable response. The recommendation is to uninstall the beta Lion, and wait until the official release, which was already suggested in the thread, as you already know. Or you can access your valuable notes via the web interface. Regardless, good luck with your quest for delight.

Now we've gone from stand-offish to just plain flippant.

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I have to agree with those who are showing a lack of sympathy for the disaffected Lion user ... after all, the current version of Lion isn't even a public beta: it's an early developer release, intended for use by those who write OS X software, and on machines that are reserved for development and testing. To use such software on a mission-critical machine is extremely foolish, and is contrary to the intent of Apple's dev program. And to expect third-party developers to drop everything in support of that foolhardiness is the height of irrational arrogance.

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  • Level 5*
It's also a good time to check out some of the alternatives to Evernote. As a big Evernote fan, it pains me to say that. Given the importance of how this app is used, a stand-offish attitude by the developers may not be the best course of action.

It's always a good time to check out alternatives to any software you use. But what does that have to do with Evernote's policy of not supporting unreleased operating systems?

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Seems to me the arrogant one is the one who thinks all the problems will be solved when the OS goes gold.

No one has stated that EN will magically work, once Lion goes gold. You seem to be very good at ignoring what's been clearly said & rework it to mean something that will support your being PO'd.

SO...once again, for the people in the back row...

We "officially" don't support beta OS's until they're released (and certainly not on the first day). In practice, we'll generally support it soon after it goes "Gold". It's too much of a timesink on engineering resources to try to keep up with all the changes in a beta OS before it's stable.

.

While we applaud people's willingness to help vendors like Apple do early testing on their products, we do not have the resources to test, fix, and support every pre-release and beta test version of each OS and web browser. We will make a lot of effort to make sure that Evernote works great on (or shortly after) the date that the OS/browser is actually released. But we do not support Evernote on unreleased alpha- or beta-testing platforms.

I really don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. But that's pretty explicit & if you don't get it now, you never will.

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Seems to me the arrogant one is the one who thinks all the problems will be solved when the OS goes gold.

No one has stated that EN will magically work, once Lion goes gold. You seem to be very good at ignoring what's been clearly said & rework it to mean something that will support your being PO'd.

SO...once again, for the people in the back row...

We "officially" don't support beta OS's until they're released (and certainly not on the first day). In practice, we'll generally support it soon after it goes "Gold". It's too much of a timesink on engineering resources to try to keep up with all the changes in a beta OS before it's stable.

.

While we applaud people's willingness to help vendors like Apple do early testing on their products, we do not have the resources to test, fix, and support every pre-release and beta test version of each OS and web browser. We will make a lot of effort to make sure that Evernote works great on (or shortly after) the date that the OS/browser is actually released. But we do not support Evernote on unreleased alpha- or beta-testing platforms.

I really don't know why this is so difficult for you to understand. But that's pretty explicit & if you don't get it now, you never will.

Dude, check your arrogance and condescending tone at the door. I get it. I just disagree with it. Evernote users should not have to wait ONE DAY after an OS is released for their app to work properly, but this is what has happened to Mac users in the past. I'm working hard to make sure my apps work on every new OS (with a lot fewer resources) before they come out. I find it disappointing that Evernote chooses to wait.

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I'm working hard to make sure my apps work on every new OS (with a lot fewer resources) before they come out.

That's great.

I find it disappointing that Evernote chooses to wait.

That's fine. Now, let's move on & stop with the histrionics.

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I find it disappointing that Evernote chooses to wait.

That's fine. Now, let's move on & stop with the histrionics.

Histrionics? With that language, it doesn't seem like you really want to stop and move on. Bottom line though, you still haven't solved the problem.

I store project notes and code snippets in Evernote for both Mac and PC projects. I have a laptop with the Lion OS on it for testing. As it stands now, I cannot access these notes and code snippets without being online, and when I AM online, it's painfully slow and cumbersome to access. I could develop on one machine and remote into the Lion machine, but that also requires being online and is even slower.

Is it too much to ask the developer to look into a problem they're going to have to look into anyway to satisfy their customers? If the answer is yes, it doesn't bode well for the future of that developer to keep their customers.

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Really? Still?

Dave has said that when Lion is released that Evernote will support it.

Out of x million users you are one of a tiny number who have decided to move to a currently unsupported OS - you chose to do this and so you have to live with the consequences.

I'm afraid that Evernote cannot be held responsible for your slow web connection either.

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Really? Still?

Dave has said that when Lion is released that Evernote will support it.

Out of x million users you are one of a tiny number who have decided to move to a currently unsupported OS - you chose to do this and so you have to live with the consequences.

I'm afraid that Evernote cannot be held responsible for your slow web connection either.

You make it sound like I have a choice. App developers, yes we are a small percentage of the Evernote community, commonly test and revise their code to work with upcoming OS versions. That's why we have access to the betas. To repeat, I'm not asking for a fully-functional Lion version of Evernote here, just one that doesn't crash on startup so my notes and code repository on my testing machine can be accessed. It's a mistake for them to suggest Evernote won't run on Lion at all until it is released.

Lastly, it's just silly to infer that I would hold Evernote responsible for my web connection.

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Now we've gone from stand-offish to just plain flippant.

You're right -- the last bit of my comment -- the 'quest for delight' part -- was unnecessary' and I apologize for that. The rest was prety straightforward, factual and sincere, including the part of wishing you good luck; in this case, in finding a solution. I'd prefer of course that Evernote work on Lion as-is; perhaps a subsequent update will make it so. Again, good luck.

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Thanks to everyone all for your comments here - we appreciate the vehemence with which you wish to have Evernote be supported on every operating system point release, but as Dave and I have both explained -

We simply cannot support operating systems (or browsers) that are not "Stable". We don't have the manpower for it. We prefer to spend our resources supporting the majority of our userbase, using stable, non-developer builds, and we start working on a compatible version of our product when the final version is available for developers.

In the meantime, you can always access your account via Evernote Web, at http://www.evernote.com .

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I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We've received some rage in the past about compatibility with unreleased operating systems and browsers, so will say it more directly for the record:

While we applaud people's willingness to help vendors like Apple do early testing on their products, we do not have the resources to test, fix, and support every pre-release and beta test version of each OS and web browser. We will make a lot of effort to make sure that Evernote works great on (or shortly after) the date that the OS/browser is actually released. But we do not support Evernote on unreleased alpha- or beta-testing platforms.

If you want to avoid hassles and conflicts on your own computer, I'd strongly recommend that you only upgrade to fully released software. I.e. software that doesn't have "developer" or "beta" in the version number on the About screen.

(I usually wait a week or two after that on my own computer to let early adopters catch any showstoppers for me...)

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Interesting: Dropbox also doesn't work, but if you open the application package and edit the BundleVersion to 2.0 it resolves the issue.

Wondering if there might be a similar workaround for Evenrote that doesn't require an update to the client.

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We "officially" don't support beta OS's until they're released (and certainly not on the first day). In practice, we'll generally support it soon after it goes "Gold". It's too much of a timesink on engineering resources to try to keep up with all the changes in a beta OS before it's stable.

So, like, since they just released what is presumably their "Gold" version to devs *today* to start getting apps ready for the summer release, I'd give us a little bit of time to work on it.

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Yeah same here.

Tried rebooting, redownloading eveything.

I'm an IB student, so I depend on evernote heavily for my extended essay stuff which I'm doing in the African crisis, and so I need to clip articles everyday.

I even tried to downgrade because only evernote didn't work, no such luck.

I'll use the web version anyway, but hit us up with something quick, no way I'm switching out from such a great product.

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  • Level 5

Same thing happened with the Firefox 4.0 beta.

Easy solution (when there is a substantial conflict):

Keep using the standard release until the hundreds of changes in the beta are resolved.

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I wish I could, there's no(current) way to downgrade from lion.

do you *really* update the whole system to an early release of a new version of the OS without using TimeMachine or SuperDuper! or other backup tools? :shock:

Gee, I am so scared even of minor upgrades, when 10.6 got the Mac App Store with 10.6.6, I stayed on 10.6.5 for a few days longer monitoring the forums and Twitter to see if anyone was reporting problems after the update. Only then, when I saw no traces of big snafus in the update, and after having done backups of all the machines, I did the update.

You really are adventurous! BTW, with the cheap USB drives you can find these days, there is no excuse to not do full backups. It's like an insurance, apparently useless until you really need it...

Ciao, Luca

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I know its not the best thing to do, but i i've upgraded my machine to Lion, of course i've backed up everything, with TimeMachine and old school - copy paste method (thanks to 1 terra HD). Anyways, Evernote doesnt open, i rely on lots of things in Evernote, and frequently i don't have internet connection so i can use web interface. I hope Evernote staff will look into upgrading Evernote to be fully compatible with Mac Os X Lion, common guys, it must be done anyways, why should we wait for few months more, may be there is a small workaround?

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I wish I could, there's no(current) way to downgrade from lion.

do you *really* update the whole system to an early release of a new version of the OS without using TimeMachine or SuperDuper! or other backup tools? :shock:

Gee, I am so scared even of minor upgrades, when 10.6 got the Mac App Store with 10.6.7, I stayed on 10.6.6 for a few days longer monitoring the forums and Twitter to see if anyone was reporting problems after the update. Only then, when I saw no traces of big snafus in the update, and after having done backups of all the machines, I did the update.

You really are adventurous! BTW, with the cheap USB drives you can find these days, there is no excuse to not do full backups. It's like an insurance, apparently useless until you really need it...

Ciao, Luca

Haha, yeah it was 2am and I'm dumb, so sue me xD

Anyway, partitioned my drive, installed snow leopard, backed up all my data onto phd(Time Machine (y)), used that to restore my apps and such on snow leopard, annd I'm good to go. Pain in the backside, but worth it.

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I know its not the best thing to do, but i i've upgraded my machine to Lion, of course i've backed up everything, with TimeMachine and old school - copy paste method (thanks to 1 terra HD). Anyways, Evernote doesnt open, i rely on lots of things in Evernote, and frequently i don't have internet connection so i can use web interface. I hope Evernote staff will look into upgrading Evernote to be fully compatible with Mac Os X Lion, common guys, it must be done anyways, why should we wait for few months more, may be there is a small workaround?

I cannot see any reason for Evernote to release multiple versions in the run up to Lion being released. There will be a number of changes that are made to Lion over which Evernote will have no control and which may repeatedly break the app.

If you really need applications to work then it's probably best not to upgrade to beta releases of an OS.

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It's also a good time to check out some of the alternatives to Evernote. As a big Evernote fan, it pains me to say that. Given the importance of how this app is used, a stand-offish attitude by the developers may not be the best course of action.

It's always a good time to check out alternatives to any software you use. But what does that have to do with Evernote's policy of not supporting unreleased operating systems?

Because as previously stated, if you're using Lion, Evernote crashes upon opening. In other words, the native app is useless and apparently will be until the OS comes out of Beta.

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Are we really to expect NO updates to Evernote for Lion prior to the Gold Master release or is that just "the company line"?
I don't want to be ambiguous about this. We've received some rage in the past about compatibility with unreleased operating systems and browsers, so will say it more directly for the record:

While we applaud people's willingness to help vendors like Apple do early testing on their products, we do not have the resources to test, fix, and support every pre-release and beta test version of each OS and web browser. We will make a lot of effort to make sure that Evernote works great on (or shortly after) the date that the OS/browser is actually released. But we do not support Evernote on unreleased alpha- or beta-testing platforms.

If Gold Master release means it's out of beta, then I think Dave was pretty clear.

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It may happen to work under Lion before Lion is finished and released, but we are not going to try to fix every bug in every unstable OS and browser long before they're released. If stability is important to you, wait for the OS release.

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Internal error details when i try to open Evernote on Mac OS X Lion, just FYI:

At the same time, i can click on Continue but then it say it will run in "inconsistent state", after i click Continue i have

frozen evernote app which doesn't show anything, just blank white rectangular background with app edges, can't see notes,

can't see any text, everything is white, no interface.

So here is the error:

Exception Name: NSInvalidArgumentException

Description: +[NSSourceListBackgroundColor activeColor]: unrecognized selector sent to class 0xa060a3a4

User Info: {

NSStackTraceKey = "0x71112d 0x911f403d 0x92f0606b 0x92e3da29 0x92e3d7f2 0xb00fc 0x94f61f1f 0x94f60a54 0x94f60df5 0x94f60df5 0x94f5ec2b 0x94f5e7a9 0x94f5b0a5 0x94ebeb21 0x94e8880d 0x955fc097 0x96f1d5bb 0x92ec3606 0x92ec49b7 0x92e04990 0x92e03e1c 0x92e03cc8 0x97304c4b 0x97304a13 0x97304882 0x94e90682 0x94e8feee 0x94e51dec 0x94e49f2f 0x298e 0x2";

}

0 CoreFoundation 0x92e91927 __raiseError + 231

1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x911f403d objc_exception_throw + 155

2 ExceptionHandling 0x00710f08 -[NSExceptionHandler _handleException:mask:] + 1422

3 ExceptionHandling 0x0071114d NSExceptionHandlerExceptionRaiser + 232

4 libobjc.A.dylib 0x911f403d objc_exception_throw + 155

5 CoreFoundation 0x92f0606b +[NSObject doesNotRecognizeSelector:] + 187

6 CoreFoundation 0x92e3da29 ___forwarding___ + 457

7 CoreFoundation 0x92e3d7f2 _CF_forwarding_prep_0 + 50

8 Evernote 0x000b00fc -[KNShelfSplitView drawRect:] + 3676

9 AppKit 0x94f61f1f -[NSView _drawRect:clip:] + 3691

10 AppKit 0x94f60a54 -[NSView _recursiveDisplayAllDirtyWithLockFocus:visRect:] + 1923

11 AppKit 0x94f60df5 -[NSView _recursiveDisplayAllDirtyWithLockFocus:visRect:] + 2852

12 AppKit 0x94f60df5 -[NSView _recursiveDisplayAllDirtyWithLockFocus:visRect:] + 2852

13 AppKit 0x94f5ec2b -[NSView _recursiveDisplayRectIfNeededIgnoringOpacity:isVisibleRect:rectIsVisibleRectForView:topView:] + 708

14 AppKit 0x94f5e7a9 -[NSThemeFrame _recursiveDisplayRectIfNeededIgnoringOpacity:isVisibleRect:rectIsVisibleRectForView:topView:] + 259

15 AppKit 0x94f5b0a5 -[NSView _displayRectIgnoringOpacity:isVisibleRect:rectIsVisibleRectForView:] + 3647

16 AppKit 0x94ebeb21 -[NSView displayIfNeeded] + 827

17 AppKit 0x94e8880d -[NSWindow displayIfNeeded] + 237

18 AppKit 0x955fc097 -[NSAnimationManager animationTimerFired:] + 2720

19 Foundation 0x96f1d5bb __NSFireTimer + 166

20 CoreFoundation 0x92ec3606 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_A_TIMER_CALLBACK_FUNCTION__ + 22

21 CoreFoundation 0x92ec49b7 __CFRunLoopDoTimer + 727

22 CoreFoundation 0x92e04990 __CFRunLoopRun + 1888

23 CoreFoundation 0x92e03e1c CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 332

24 CoreFoundation 0x92e03cc8 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 120

25 HIToolbox 0x97304c4b RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 318

26 HIToolbox 0x97304a13 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 381

27 HIToolbox 0x97304882 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 88

28 AppKit 0x94e90682 _DPSNextEvent + 678

29 AppKit 0x94e8feee -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 113

30 AppKit 0x94e51dec -[NSApplication run] + 897

31 AppKit 0x94e49f2f NSApplicationMain + 1047

32 Evernote 0x0000298e start + 54

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While we applaud people's willingness to help vendors like Apple do early testing on their products, we do not have the resources to test, fix, and support every pre-release and beta test version of each OS and web browser. We will make a lot of effort to make sure that Evernote works great on (or shortly after) the date that the OS/browser is actually released.

That makes sense. Please post here when you've removed Evernote from the Mac App Store, since that's a beta feature of Mac OS Lion and you don't support it.

(I kid, I kid!) :)

--- JRJ

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It's also a good time to check out some of the alternatives to Evernote. As a big Evernote fan, it pains me to say that. Given the importance of how this app is used, a stand-offish attitude by the developers may not be the best course of action.

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  • Level 5*
It's also a good time to check out some of the alternatives to Evernote. As a big Evernote fan, it pains me to say that. Given the importance of how this app is used, a stand-offish attitude by the developers may not be the best course of action.

You are kidding right?

How many other apps that you use have the CEO and top techie contributing on their public forums?

Honestly, one of the most foolish things I've read in a long time. Thanks for cheering me up.

When Lion is released to the public, then I am sure Evernote will support it. Until then I think Dave's rather unambiguous comments above are pretty much crystal.

Stand-offish! Brilliant, what a numpty.

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