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Word Wonderer

Future of local notebooks?

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What has kept me from taking the offer of upgrading to Evernote Premium at 40% off is my concern about continued access to my local notebooks (and now it's almost too late). After hours of searching, I can only find out-of-date information about this (e.g. the plan to discontinue local notebooks announced in 2016 and reversed in 2017). However, the status of local notebooks is brought into question by the Jan 14, 2020, blog by Ian Small (2020 Update).  It included this:  "since late November, 100% of your note content is now synced and served from a completely new storage system in our cloud. . . . The re-engineered web client (in limited release), the new mobile clients (in first preview), and the (as yet unreleased) new clients for Windows, Mac, and (yes!) Linux, along with the ongoing re-architecture and data migration we’ve been doing in the cloud, will set up Evernote to be able to innovate and ship with quality at a pace we haven’t seen in a long time." Not a word about local notebooks in this blog entry. There's basic information about them via Help, but is that now, or will it soon, be out of date? Can I just remain with version 6.7.1 if I don't upgrade and be ok? Thanks.

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CEO has tweeted that the new clients will have local capabilities (of some kind - tweet wasn't overly specific). Some things will inevitably be different with the new clients, but I wouldn't worry too much about not having offline capabilities.

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On 1/31/2020 at 5:18 PM, Word Wonderer said:

Can I just remain with version 6.7.1 if I don't upgrade and be ok?

I'm currently running v7.14, and don't upgrade if I don't approve of a new version
I downgrade if I run into issues with a new version

The current version won't run forever, but I think it will be fine for the next year or so

>>the status of local notebooks is brought into question ...

afaik  The status of local notebooks is not "brought into question"    
            However, I've not seen the new beta version

I am curious as to your requirement for local notebooks
Evernote's strength is as a cloud service; with notes sync'd to the web server and devices
Local notebooks are an anomaly - they have valid uses, but  make sure you have data backups

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He is talking company politics, not giving an engineering lecture. Why should he talk about all the stuff they are going to KEEP when he talks about what they improved. I would not bother.

Maybe we get one day encrypted notebooks, which IMHO would be the better solution.

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The use case for me is security.  I view all work material as company confidential and it all goes into local notebooks.  If EN ever enables zero knowledge encrypted notebooks then my need for local notebooks goes away.

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Maybe we will, maybe we won't. The issue about iCloud being encrypted, but not end-to-end shows that even the largest companies under US jurisdiction are forced to install back doors.

My worry is not that a US court might care about what is in my account - but any back door means a breach of security that can be misused. And yes, this is something to worry about.

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31 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

even the largest companies under US jurisdiction are forced to install back doors.

Do you have a source for that?
I thought Apple demonstrated a "no back door" implementation even when faced with court orders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI–Apple_encryption_dispute)

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Apple announced a while back they would end-to-end-encrypt iCloud. But they never confirmed it !

Then Tim Cook said in a byline during an interview recently, that they skipped this, and went to a "standard" encryption (where Apple is holding the keys). Then there was a report that Apple is going to scan iCloud-Traffic for child porn (which is a GOOD thing, but how could they do it if end-to-end ...). And in the recent shooting by a Saudi at an airbase in Florida Apple was very publicly (including a tweet by the-one-and-only bigmouth White House inmate) asked to unlock the iPhone of that guy, and commented they can't - but that they already had provided authorities with a copy of the iCloud-Backup of that phone. We know that with an iCloud backup you can restore the content of an iPhone to let us say another iPhone. And "authorities" did not follow up on this, which means they probably got what they wanted. All this is public information, and at least here in Germany reported on reputable new services (real ones, not shady internet-only pages) like heise.de - they are the publishers of the german "Mac & I" magazine, among others.

Conclusion: Not all that is said is true - and not all that is true is told. Especially if as a US company you are forbidden by law to tell what you (have to) do. The US have a non disclosure law, so at the very moment a company is forced to serve the NSA/FBI/whatever security authority, they are forbidden to talk about it. 

Under European data protection laws iCloud is NOT regarded as compliant, and companies are warned against using it for sensitive data. This was not commented on by Apple, but they did not go and sue the government authorities for example here in Germany either, that released this warning.

This is the text of an analysis from the official German government IT security authority ("Bundesamt für Sicherheit in der Informationstechnik") , issued 2018-08-23 and renewed 2019-08-16 (google-translation, pretty accurate). The release is several pages long, goes pretty much in detail about MacOS and the related services and can be found here www.bsi.de :

SYS.2.4.A8 No use of iCloud for sensitive data [user] (S)

It SHOULD be prevented from syncing sensitive data between multiple devices via iCloud services. Instead, data SHOULD only be synchronized via self-operated services. Data worth protecting should NOT be saved in iCloud. Drafts, such as emails or documents, SHOULD NOT be automatically saved in iCloud.

As a contrast, Evernote IS compliant with European laws, and I use it for my micro business based on a signed and countersigned data processing agreement that is legally needed to use an IT service here for professional purposes. Apple does not sign these contracts with its users (those who tried simply did not get them) ... they make you to accept THEIR legal small print, one sided.

In general I think the Apple services are pretty safe for normal, law abiding citizens, and Apple cares. But if someone comes with a search warrant, there is a large barn door in the fortress wall, and Apple is holding the keys.

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11 hours ago, DTLow said:

I am curious as to your requirement for local notebooks

Stuff one doesn't want on the web I suppose....

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3 hours ago, CalS said:

Stuff one doesn't want on the web I suppose....

I'm not much of a web user, but it's a fallback when I have device problems
Access is restricted, and my sensitive material is encrypted

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3 hours ago, DTLow said:

I'm not much of a web user, but it's a fallback when I have device problems
Access is restricted, and my sensitive material is encrypted

I have some encrypted notes in synced notebooks, but not many.  I don't want to be decrypting stuff all the time on my desktop so I put the sensitive stuff into local notebooks - statements, tax stuff and the like.  I have 7,942 local notes at this point.  I don't need to see the stuff on the web or my mobile devices.  Backup is via Backupery nightly and once a week I 7-zip my 2 local notebooks to OneDrive.  FWIW.

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Good you mentioned the Backup - something not to forget if notes are kept off the server.

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On 2/14/2020 at 9:47 AM, PinkElephant said:

Under European data protection laws iCloud is NOT regarded as compliant, and companies are warned against using it for sensitive data.
......  As a contrast, Evernote IS compliant with European laws, and I use it for my micro business

Personally I have no concerns about using iCloud and Evernote for my personal data (sensitive stuff encrypted) - I'm satisfied with their encryption-at-rest (they hold the keys)
I don't have business data; which requires serious consideration

Just wondering how Evernote gets a pass since there's no end-to-end encryption;
or is this back to the usecase for local notebooks
or  >>Apple is going to scan iCloud-Traffic for child porn 

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End to end encryption is not necessary, and as we know features like server-based search or OCR would not work with end-to-end encrypted files. This is legal under the Pricacy-Shield-Agreement between the EU and the US. There are other US-based cloud services that comply, among them (!) Google with Google Drive and G-Suite. The access for government agencies with the necessary court orders is not a legal problem concerning the European privacy laws.

The problem with Apple is a lack of transparency and the missing will to sign the necessary agreements with their (business) users.

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