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kdeemer

Beta Editor Feedback

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Frankly, I don't see what all of the fuss is about.  You don't seem to have addressed any of the issues that are important to me (and many others):
 
  • No ability to control line spacing
  • No ability to highlight pdf's
  • No ability to specify the order of merged notes
  • No ability to create an actual outline (I, a, 1. ii, etc.)
  • No ability to add a bookmark to a document
  • No way to export a note as a pdf.
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Yeah I am using Chrome, if I switch to Beta Editor it's fine to edit and make changes.. UNTIL I close Chrome then it doesn't work anymore.  Next time I open Chrome beta editor doesn't work, double click, right click no option to 'edit' anymore.  I have to change back to classic.  Not only that but it converts ALL my content to HTML, it's one long listing in a note.  I have to revert to Classic to make changes .  Don't understand 'beta' editor it WAS working fine.. beta CHANGES should not change overall behavior.. just ADD some new features, why re-invent the wheel?!?!

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2 hours ago, rjparker1 said:

why re-invent the wheel?!?!

Just to speak to that one point, it's my (partially informed) understanding that the path for Evernote is to try to unify the editor experience across all platforms, to the extent that the widely varying platforms will allow. That will require some wheel-reinventing. Once those reinvented wheels (and presumably some unchanged ones) are spinning well, new features, such as those that @kdeemer lists, may get added, and hopefully performance bugs on Chrome, etc., will be eliminated in the process. This is just what I glean from spending too much time on these forums. :) I don't have any inside info.

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As I understood past posts and Blog entries by Ian, 2019 will be the year of consolidating and building a strong backend. Once that is accomplished 2020 will be the year of new features. I hope aforementioned features will be included.

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. . . . that the path for Evernote is to try to unify the editor experience across all platforms

Yeah automobiles go through the same thing, but they don't ditch working engines and transmissions just to make way for some unified experience.  I am all for new features just don't BREAK existing methods.  I have been in too many betas, projects and coding to know that you don't abandon the existing usefulness of a product just to start over with new features you can still incorporate what is already working.  The idea for BETA is to ADD functionality not start over, then it wouldn't be evernote it would be a COMPLETELY new product.

 

So if that's how it's going to be then maybe it's time to move on to OneNote or Google Keep, because my functionality is being interrupted and breaking my way of doing things.  Yeah I know BETA is strictly voluntary but I don't expect to have to QA test and  be a reminder that this used to work and that used to work either... It should just work.. and add functionality in the process.

Apple, Microsoft, Google they all manage to keep the fires burning while they add new things to the empire, we don't burn down the old castle to make room for a new one, you build a new castle with basic foundation because you learn from the past.. you don't start completely over, that's just void of common sense.  It's also how things will get missed.

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54 minutes ago, rjparker1 said:

The idea for BETA is to ADD functionality not start over, then it wouldn't be evernote it would be a COMPLETELY new product.

?? No, The idea for BETA is to give users outside the building to test and evaluate a new product so as to help ensure that it's ready for release (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta). That's all. There are no rules as to what goes into the beta product; it can be minor tweaks all the way to a a complete rewrite.

54 minutes ago, rjparker1 said:

Apple, Microsoft, Google they all manage to keep the fires burning while they add new things to the empire,

No, that's not true at all. They break things all the time, entire subsystems get replaced or rearchitected under the hood and the end users never know the difference, unless something breaks or something was missed. Which happens.

54 minutes ago, rjparker1 said:

we don't burn down the old castle to make room for a new one, you build a new castle with basic foundation because you learn from the past.. you don't start completely over, that's just void of common sense.  It's also how things will get missed.

Yes, yes, "we" do all of these things sometimes, if need arises, and things getting missed is a definite possibility. It's well known that complete rewrites can be problematic (see e.g. https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/) but are sometimes necessary anyways, for any number of reasons (speed or efficiency reasons, requirements changes, availability of new technologies etc.)..You hope that things don't get missed (regressions) but they can, and you deal with them as they arise.

Nobody really likes this (well, starting with a clean sheet can be fun and exciting), but it's a reality of the software business.

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No, that's not true at all. They break things all the time, 

Break yes but remove previous feature NO they do NOT.  They keep current features add new ones still manage to keep it working but still add new functionality.. BETA is nature to break stuff but not render it useless.  Not supposed to work that way.

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unless something breaks or something was missed. Which happens.

Exactly but in this case there are WAY too many features missing to call this an 'oops'.. it seems like they started over to abandon the current version to start over, that's my point.

I have been a beta tester for Microsoft for YEARS NEVER had a product including Windows that was missing or completely gone that customers were actively using, they didn't just release an OS and say 'oh yeah we need to add file system permissions or we forgot to include powershell'.  The existing features are still there just maybe upgraded or perhaps moved or changed name but not gone.

The BETA editor in Evernote I have to enable it, then I can edit stuff, if I restart or close Chrome it no longer works.  Have to revert to 'classic' then re-enable editor.  Too many bugs to be useful and LOTS of things were working before BETA.  First of all BETA is the version just before release.. you have an ALPHA to start design phase.  BETA is supposed to be version to test features to ensure final product is smooth, then you have a pre-release and a 'GOLD' release as a final test.. this is like a pre-Alpha, that's how it feels.

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That's all. There are no rules as to what goes into the beta product; it can be minor tweaks all the way to a a complete rewrite.

You are kidding right?  OF COURSE there are rules that why in development world there are STANDARDS, that's why companies use API and code.. if you have no rules well then you are doing it wrong.  Not how ANY company (and I work for a development software company) works.  I have developers looking at me because they heard me laughing and they are like ???!?! What does he mean 'no rules'.. that's crazy.  You can't just make up stuff as you go, but then again that explains a lot for Evernote.  If that's how 'cowboys' do it Redood City, well you are off the grid.

Besides we are not talking about a new product we are talking about a new FEATURE in that product, I can simply hit edit.. and do what I need but BETA no so much..... you can't rewrite an edit function that worked before, that's bad development process.

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Nobody really likes this (well, starting with a clean sheet can be fun and exciting), but it's a reality of the software business.

Sounds like you are moving forward no matter what I say, I guess if you speak for everyone at Evernote then I have no more use for you then.  And it's NOT reality of the software business maybe you live in an alternate universe but in the REAL world not how it works.  It also seems like you have NO QA, TEST or even a customer test of software .. you just have 'here it is take it or leave it' approach. (leave us a comment!)  Awesome.

You should keep your day job because if you move to another company they will laugh you out of the room if you mention how you did things 'back there'... Incredibly non-sense way of doing things.  Evernote will lose customers.. then maybe management will go back and say 'where did we go wrong'...

Well jefito said 'it was fast and loose'.. and that's when the roof caved in.. ah well maybe we should learn from that.

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3 hours ago, rjparker1 said:
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No, that's not true at all. They break things all the time, 

Break yes but remove previous feature NO they do NOT. 

You mentioned Google in your original example. Google is notorious for removing features,  or even entire applications. I can't speak for Apple, but Microsoft, despite being semi-famous for being heroic in terms of providing backwards compatibility (even for wayward program behaviors), also removes and/or drastically alters features too. I'd point to the history of the Windows start menu for one example.

3 hours ago, rjparker1 said:
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That's all. There are no rules as to what goes into the beta product; it can be minor tweaks all the way to a a complete rewrite.

You are kidding right?  OF COURSE there are rules that why in development world there are STANDARDS, that's why companies use API and code.. if you have no rules well then you are doing it wrong.  Not how ANY company (and I work for a development software company) works.  I have developers looking at me because they heard me laughing and they are like ???!?! What does he mean 'no rules'.. that's crazy.  You can't just make up stuff as you go, but then again that explains a lot for Evernote.  If that's how 'cowboys' do it Redood City, well you are off the grid.

You made a flat statement about what BETA was ("The idea for BETA is to ADD functionality not start over"), and it was incorrect. There are no industry standards about what goes into a beta release; it's whatever form the company wants to present a product, new or old, merely tweaked or completely rebuilt. Betas are for the purpose of customer evaluation (from the Wiki article: "The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release and this is typically the first time that the software is available outside of the organization that developed it."). That's all beta is. 

Of course there are rules in software development: internal development standards, rules imposed by the application environment, business rules, you name it. But there is no rule whatsoever that says that a beta cannot be a completely rebuilt application. None whatsoever. You conflated two completely separate issues and drew an incorrect conclusion. Sorry to say, but if your devs are laughing when they look at you, maybe you've got some ketchup on your tie? :) 

"But then again that explains a lot for Evernote" : just to be clear, I don't work for Evernote, though I am a software developer. I'll ignore that last bit of your reply,  since it really doesn't apply to me, or software development reality as I know it. Cheers.

 

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Bug in PDF preview with the new editor enabled - in classic is shows the PDF link (no preview of course). In the Beta it refreshes this attached PDF preview continuously.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s75/sh/f782d080-352d-4c3f-8cdd-2d9659632509/a2e3a00368ca680c3bd932a979924688

On further examination this appears to be an issue of the UI trying to size larged attached PDFs. Small ones seem to work - mostly, though some 'glitch' back and forth between two very similar sizes. Large (2MB and 5MB in my examples) - are presumably being sized or their size is simply confusing the preview code. They seem to refresh endlessly.

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On 9/25/2019 at 4:35 PM, kdeemer said:
The line spacing issue has been vexing me for years now. When reaching out to Evernote support for help, I was told it was a known issue they were working  on back then. It has been a very long time to have been working on it and still now resolution. I'd be happy with just a line spacing option, so that I could switch off the extra line Evernote adds to any document I've created with Word and used the Enter key to go to the next line on. I would also like to see other colors of highlighter besides yellow.
Please, let me know if you find a solution to the line spacing issue. :)
 
  • No ability to control line spacing
  • No ability to highlight pdf's
  • No ability to specify the order of merged notes
  • No ability to create an actual outline (I, a, 1. ii, etc.)
  • No ability to add a bookmark to a document
  • No way to export a note as a pdf.

 

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OK it seems there are just too many open and unresolved items for Evernote, either the team is overworked or ambivalent.  Either way Microsoft OneNote seems to be what I need (sure this group doesn't care).

I have cancelled my Evernote which is a great product unfortunately has too many limitations that I am not willing to overcome, OneNote as a turns out has way more features (as of 2016 version) and I can choose where to store by file (online or offline) and don't have to deal with line space, PDF problems or beta issues with a polished product.  Argue or not I am a customer (and appears evernote has no quantification for this) and I should get what I want, that's EXACTLY why I am switching.

Not endorsing OneNote merely signaling my discontent with the current Evernote status.. maybe in a year or 10 I might entertain another switch but I am getting off this Titanic (over stating as it may be) if it's NOT working as planned it may as well be considered a FAILURE.  Period.  It should just work.  

I have used Evernote exclusively for almost 5 years and it's rather ridiculous it has to come to this.  I guess I should finally realize why Microsoft is so big.. they do what NEEDS to be done not make excuses (jefito), you really need to stop trying to assuage products that are not living up their potential.. I like to give the underdog the benefit of the doubt, but that endeavor fails me more than I can remember.  You think small you stay small . . . . .

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Well, um.... Thanks for letting us know. Especially since you think we don't care. If I knew some things you didn't care about, I'd be sure to keep you informed. :) Anyway, I hope OneNote works great for you. It does for a lot of people ... as does Evernote.

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