living without tags

[peterlemer 13]

A while back a lady posted a clear description about how she didn't need to use tags to conduct a well-engineered Evernote database.

I thought that I'd bookmarked or copied it but sadly can't find it now.

Does anyone have a link to this?

cheers

 

pete

[PinkElephant 8,094]

In the Forum ?

However, I use tags and think they are essential ...

[peterlemer 13]

Hi PinkElephant. I don't see how I could have seen it anywhere else but this forum.

I use tags a lot, but my database engineering mind is reviewing every component of my structures and that one has been lurking at the back of my mind

pete

[PinkElephant 8,094]

Tried a search of the forum. Not very successful, I‘m afraid: Too much discussion going on about to tag or not to tag to find a single posting like that.

Sorry ...

[gazumped 11,661]

Hi.  That would be this lady I assume - https://evernote.com/blog/stacey-harmon-michael-hyatt-wrong-organizing-evernote-tags/

[DTLow 5,736]

19 hours ago, peterlemer said:

A while back a lady posted a clear description about how she didn't need to use tags to conduct a well-engineered Evernote database.

I don't know the reference, but is this regarding tags in general, or Evernote's Tag feature.
Some users avoid Evernote's Tag feature, and add keywords to their notes,
others substitute using Evernote's Notebook feature.
To paraphase Shakespeare; a tag by another name, still ...

Then there's the hardcore users who eschew tags of any form,
and rely only on text search; certainly not "well-engineered"

[gazumped 11,661]

Just to be contrary I used a strictly title-based category system* (with a little help from notebooks and stacks) until I found Filterize which - at it's simplest level - works really well with tags.  I'm gradually moving to a system that still relies heavily on titles,  but has some very convenient bells and whistles driven by tags.

My usual title format is date - type - source - subject - keywords,  which in the RW looks like this - "20181129 receipt - forbidden planet cardiff - pops - presents".  I created that title in Workflowy,  where it's filed under 'F' along with any other providers or contacts with that initial letter.  When I shop there again,  I'll update the details and copy it onto the PDF file.  Means I'm consistent in my keywords,  at least.

It also means I can find all my receipts by supplier / item / purchase / year / month / day - who needs tags?

Filterize drives my semi-GTD system,  as well as automating a number of my searches and -potentially**- one of my shared notebooks by automatically updating and amending 'menu' (table of contents) pages for new items,  and listing current content by date (it's a calendar),  location and event.  

* there were several reasons for this,  including: I had problems with remembering the exact tag name,  so usually wound up with several versions of the same word - bank / banker / banking for instance;  and I scanned files to a desktop folder and moved them (could be 40 at a time) into Evernote via an Import Folder - so no easy or practical way to attach tags,  other than by using the file name.

** as in:  'working on it'

[DTLow 5,736]

1 hour ago, gazumped said:

My usual title format is date - type - source - subject - keywords

I add [description] to the end of the title name.  The [] makes it easy to parse.

I also include the amount for receipts, and export to a spreadsheet for number crunching (buget and expense reports)

For example  "20181129 receipt - forbidden planet cardiff - pops - presents [Went to movies with family] $45.75

>>I had problems with remembering the exact tag name

Maybe you could store the tag names in Workflowy 😊  Sorry, I couldn't resist

I've seen this argument before.  I never type the full tagnames.  I start typing, and a filtered list appears; I select from the list.

 

 

[gazumped 11,661]

18 minutes ago, DTLow said:

 I never type the full tagnames.  I start typing, and a filtered list appears; I select from the list

Agreed - that works for me in many situations: but I used to be creating lots of notes very quickly,  and typos and quick thoughts quickly added up to more variations on some names.  It's better now than it was:  but I got into the 'title' camp,  and got used to it..  plus there's the 'transferring 40 files at a time' thing.  Annoying to put those in an 'imported files' notebook and then tag them out into general pop,  and if only some of my files are tagged and the rest are ID'd by their title,  searches get interesting...

[peterlemer 13]

22 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Tried a search of the forum. Not very successful, I‘m afraid: Too much discussion going on about to tag or not to tag to find a single posting like that.

Sorry ...

thanks, PinkElephant, I have my answer below

 

pete

[peterlemer 13]

8 hours ago, gazumped said:

Hi.  That would be this lady I assume - https://evernote.com/blog/stacey-harmon-michael-hyatt-wrong-organizing-evernote-tags/

gazumped, spot on! Many thanks. <settles down to read>

 

cheers

 

pete

[peterlemer 13]

5 hours ago, DTLow said:

I don't know the reference, but is this regarding tags in general, or Evernote's Tag feature.
Some users avoid Evernote's Tag feature, and add keywords to their notes,
others substitute using Evernote's Notebook feature.
To paraphase Shakespeare; a tag by another name, still ...

Then there's the hardcore users who eschew tags of any form,
and rely only on text search; certainly not "well-engineered"

thanks DTLow, I now have the link I wanted. --- pete

[peterlemer 13]

4 hours ago, gazumped said:

Just to be contrary I used a strictly title-based category system* (with a little help from notebooks and stacks) until I found Filterize which - at it's simplest level - works really well with tags.  I'm gradually moving to a system that still relies heavily on titles,  but has some very convenient bells and whistles driven by tags.

My usual title format is date - type - source - subject - keywords,  which in the RW looks like this - "20181129 receipt - forbidden planet cardiff - pops - presents".  I created that title in Workflowy,  where it's filed under 'F' along with any other providers or contacts with that initial letter.  When I shop there again,  I'll update the details and copy it onto the PDF file.  Means I'm consistent in my keywords,  at least.

It also means I can find all my receipts by supplier / item / purchase / year / month / day - who needs tags?

Filterize drives my semi-GTD system,  as well as automating a number of my searches and -potentially**- one of my shared notebooks by automatically updating and amending 'menu' (table of contents) pages for new items,  and listing current content by date (it's a calendar),  location and event.  

* there were several reasons for this,  including: I had problems with remembering the exact tag name,  so usually wound up with several versions of the same word - bank / banker / banking for instance;  and I scanned files to a desktop folder and moved them (could be 40 at a time) into Evernote via an Import Folder - so no easy or practical way to attach tags,  other than by using the file name.

** as in:  'working on it'

That looks like a very comprehensive system, thanks

In my case, I find it easy to find tags and my filesystem deems to work OK, though I'm still tweaking it.

It's just that I remember sometalking about not relying on tags I am curious to review that philosophy in case there's something useful in there for me

 

https://evernote.com/blog/stacey-harmon-michael-hyatt-wrong-organizing-evernote-tags/

 

cheers

 

pete

[PinkElephant 8,094]

I think it is best to start with a use case. Then view possible ways to serve it, not narrowing it too early. Test different approaches with small quantities of data. From my experience, EN will not start to behave funny when you throw massive amount of data at it. So when a small data structure works well, a large structure will still work.

THEN take a decision, and never stop to optimize it.

For me, an approach with appr. 40 notebooks and >150 Tags (nested with 1 level) showed itself to be a good, realistic structure to handle currently appr. 3.500 notes.

I am now working to get some GTD philosophy into the picture, so things may develop further. But the current structure leaves room to grow.

[DTLow 5,736]

4 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

For me, an approach with appr. 40 notebooks and >150 Tags (nested with 1 level) showed itself to be a good, realistic structure to handle currently appr. 3.500 notes.

12,000+ notes, 300+ tags

Basically 1 filing notebook, with 5-10 shared notebooks

My use is based on the notebook features; default, private/shared, offline, sync/local

[CalS 5,280]

3 hours ago, peterlemer said:

It's just that I remember sometalking about not relying on tags I am curious to review that philosophy in case there's something useful in there for me

Not sure I would agree with all the assumptions in the blog post.  Why it is easier to remember notebook names than it is tags for example.  But if one is okay with the assumptions it can work.

I have 5 notebooks of merit, and a couple clearing house notebooks (INBOX and Scans), 400 or so tags, and 42k+ notes.  The key to me is using as few tags as possible and have them be generic/easy to remember.  For example, in a paperless use case create a tag for each account using the business name, use 123.Main.Street for anything related to a residence, etc.  Not so hard to remember at that point.  Then use whatever notebooks and tags to control the search set.  For me the important thing is getting things out not where they are stored.  It's what I've always disliked about paper filing systems.  FWIW.

[peterlemer 13]

Thanks CalS - I differ in that I have 86 notebooks in 10 stacks.

Currently I have a tag 'Today' which is my first goto every day. ( I have TODAY as a shortcut)

All notes with 'today' tag go there.

In each note with a 'today' tag , I put a link to a note which contains narrative, notes and completed jobs

[CalS 5,280]

2 minutes ago, peterlemer said:

Thanks CalS - I differ in that I have 86 notebooks in 10 stacks.

Currently I have a tag 'Today' which is my first goto every day. ( I have TODAY as a shortcut)

All notes with 'today' tag go there.

In each note with a 'today' tag , I put a link to a note which contains narrative, notes and completed jobs

Your are welcome.  The nice thing about EN is that there are so many ways to use it, whatever suits your use case and way of thinking.  No "best" way for sure.

[DTLow 5,736]

52 minutes ago, peterlemer said:

Currently I have a tag 'Today' which is my first goto every day. ( I have TODAY as a shortcut)

All notes with 'today' tag go there.

 In each note with a 'today' tag , I put a link to a note which contains narrative, notes and completed jobs

Expanding the discussion of Notebooks and Tags, I use Dates.

This is via the Reminders feature, which provides Due-Date and Completion-Date/Status

Instead of a 'Today' tag, I have a 'Today' saved search shortcut   reminderTime:day -reminderTime:day+1

[peterlemer 13]

Thanks for that, DTLow, I have; really explored dates as part of my task structure other than to note when something has already happened.

I'm maybe a bit too loose 🙂

 

pete