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D-Nick

Creating a hierarchy of notebooks/folders/subsection

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I have been directed to move here (from the long thread about a feature request for a proper folders/notebooks/sections hierarchy) my request for someone to explain how to use the tag hierarchy to implement/simulate a nested hierarchy of folders, notebooks, sections, subsections, etc.  It is common in that thread for people to just says "tags can do this", but no-one seems to be able to offer an explanation of how to do it.

I am not necessarily asking people to put in time to explain it themselves - just point me to the instructions that explain how to do this.

 

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A clarification on syntax376970676_ScreenShot2018-12-26at15_05_40.png.2463583a003de7fd6f13f70710194de9.png.98b592212217bf31661e7b3d073247ce.png.e13727f28dd2ecb4c3eda440645e7fb2.png

Evernote supports two fields for organizing notes; Notebooks and Tags

Evernote supports

  • a two level hierarchy for Notebooks
  • an unlimited hierarchy for Tags on selected platforms (Mac, Windows, ...)

Folders can be simulated using the notebook/tag trees in the sidebar

The screenshot shows the tag tree in the sidebar of my Mac
The notebook tree is similar, but only two levels

>>I have no idea how to use that hierarchy of tags 

- In the sidebar, click on an similated folder element, for example Structure Level 5
- In the middle panel, you will see a list of all notes assigned th the simulated folder

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15 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

but no-one seems to be able to offer an explanation of how to do it.

You'll get more specific instructions if you identify your device/platforms.
You previously identified Evernote/Windows; which version?

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:

You'll get more specific instructions if you identify your device/platforms.
You previously identified Evernote/Windows; which version?

Windows 10, but I don't think that the principles I want to understand can be version-specific.  What I want to understand is how to use tags to create (or simulate) a hierarchy of folders or nested notebooks or sub-notebooks or sections or whatever you wish to call them, as you and others have been saying is possible. 

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2 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

Windows 10, but I don't think that the principles I want to understand can be version-specific.  What I want to understand is how to use tags to create (or semulate) a hierarchy of folders or nested notebooks or sub-notebooks or sections or whatever you wish to call them, as you and others have been saying is possible. 

I gave it a go in the other thread if you haven't seen it.

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48 minutes ago, D-Nick said:

What I want to understand is how to use tags to create (or semulate) a hierarchy of folders

I posted a screenshot above; I think it resembles a "hierarchy of folders".

>>Windows 10

And your Evernote version?

We've established the Op is using Evernote/Web with a Windows Chrome browser

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1 minute ago, DTLow said:

I posted a screenshot above; I think it resembles a "hierarchy of folders".

Yes. You have posted that at least twice.  I have no idea how to use that hierarchy of tags (even supposing it is possible in Windows - I am having no luck) to simulate folders that I can put notes in and browse.  I cannot see the connection between your hierarchy and !Thing, _Wotsit, .hoojah and tags:notebook.name.tag.thing that CSal posted.

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4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

>>Windows 10

And your Evernote version?

Not sure where to find that.  Just whatever the current one is, I guess.

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9 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

I gave it a go in the other thread if you haven't seen it.

Yeah, for which thanks.  Unfortunately, that doesn't work in Windows.

But I am confident I will find out how to create nested tags in Evernote from Windows.  I am more needing instructions on how to use those nested tags to simulate a hierarchy of folders or notebooks or whatever, with my notes in leaf nodes.

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1 minute ago, D-Nick said:

Yeah, for which thanks.  Unfortunately, that doesn't work in Windows.

But I am confident I will find out how to create nested tags in Evernote from Windows.  I am more needing instructions on how to use those nested tags to simulate a hierarchy of folders or notebooks or whatever, with my notes in leaf nodes.

 

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Thanks, @s2sailor.  I did see that in the other thread (I am now regretting following the direction to move this to a new thread, as we seem to be discussing it in both places).  That doesn't work for me here, but that's OK - I am sure I can figure that part of it out.  It's the principles of how to use nested tags to simulate a hierarchy of folders/notebooks that I want to do.

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3 hours ago, D-Nick said:

how to use the tag hierarchy to implement/simulate a nested hierarchy of folders, notebooks, sections, subsections, etc. 

I have made extensive use of tag hierarchies in my concept of pseudo Notebooks:

 

Here is a screen shot of my actual tag list in Evernote Mac.  Clicking on one of the tags will show all Notes with that tag.

Unfortunately, EN Mac does not have the same feature as EN Win to show all Notes that have either the Parent tag or any of its Child tags.

2019-02-06_14-19-45.png.209567365608f6345f8766607f8decde.png

Does this answer your question?

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2 minutes ago, JMichaelTX said:

I have made extensive use of tag hierarchies in my concept of pseudo Notebooks:

 

Here is a screen shot of my actual tag list in Evernote Mac.  Clicking on one of the tags will show all Notes with that tag.

Unfortunately, EN Mac does not have the same feature as EN Win to show all Notes that have either the Parent tag or any of its Child tags.

2019-02-06_14-19-45.png.209567365608f6345f8766607f8decde.png

Does this answer your question?

Ooh - that looks promising - thank you!  I shall read through your article at the weekend and see how it works as a hierarchy of folders of notes.  I note the peculiar names that these have - I assume the article will explain what the syntax is there, and why it is needed.
This is very much appreciated - thank you.
I can't look at it tonight, unfortunately - I have already lost two evenings this week into trying to work out how to make a sensible, simple folder hierarchy in Evernote, and am behind on my studies!

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3 hours ago, D-Nick said:

Windows 10, but I don't think that the principles I want to understand can be version-specific.  What I want to understand is how to use tags to create (or simulate) a hierarchy of folders or nested notebooks or sub-notebooks or sections or whatever you wish to call them, as you and others have been saying is possible. 

You are running Evernote/Web beta version, on a Windows device with a Chrome browser2108835092_ScreenShot2019-02-06at12_46_37.png.42285ad731b8a3dd8f6bbce7fe1f5449.png

First, switch out of the beta version so you can view your tags
See screenshot to the right

 

This is my view on Evernote/Web

388423710_ScreenShot2019-02-06at12_51_41.png.f7f46754540f86418efe42f17e1357df.png

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

I posted a screenshot above; I think it resembles a "hierarchy of folders".

>>Windows 10

And your Evernote version?

We've established the Op is using Evernote/Web with a Windows Chrome browser

The OP has now (re?)discovered there are two ways of accessing Evernote from Windows 10, and is following the advice to use the desktop client, 6.17.6.8292 (308292) Public (CE Build ce-62.1.7539).

The OP is also going to follow the concrete help from @JMichaelTX in his article about "pseudo-notebooks" to see if that gives instrructions for how to create/emulate a folder hierarchy of notes.

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2 hours ago, D-Nick said:

following the advice to use the desktop client

I find the desktop clients (Windows/Mac) to be the best full feature access to Evernote

I use the web client on occasion - it's good to have a backup.
I still recommend downgrading from the web beta version; it's not meant for the novice users.

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19 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I still recommend downgrading from the web beta version; it's not meant for the novice users.

Experienced users aren't so keen on it either, as it's missing some critical features, at least it was last time I looked.

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Just a word of caution in this very technical thread: The discussion about „use this client, avoid that platform“ means that every metastructure created client-specific will be worst case useless when opened with another client.

Good examples are the mobile versions as EN-Apps. They will not show the tag-superstructure, as if it did not exist.

From my point of view the fundamental structure of my Evernote „heap of information“ should be accessible from any client. Even if today I would work PC (or Mac) - only: Who tells it will still be like this a year ahead ? If I rely on a structure that is bound to a specific client, chances are that all of my work to structure and group will be for nothing sometime in the future.

Maybe it would be more flexible to project the desired hierarchy into a sort of numbering code that goes right into the header or top of the body of the note, and use the tags in a more general way of building a primary search instrument.

If it is placed in the header, the ability of EN to build a summary note with an index / table of content from and for a large number of notes would allow to produce an index to search, find and the jump via hyperlink to each note related to a searchable set of notes. The same note can show in x different summary notes, the links always lead to the same physical / logical note as container of the information.

From my understanding of the EN database concept, a deep rigid structure runs contrary to its basic design.

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2 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

From my understanding of the EN database concept, a deep rigid structure runs contrary to its basic design.

This is true, but it's not a block to users emulating a folder/subfolder organization using notebooks/tags.

>>Good examples are the mobile versions as EN-Apps. They will not show the tag-superstructure, as if it did not exist.

I use an iPad (IOS).  All tags are avaiilable, but no hierarchy; we see a flat tag list.

There is no issue with the Mac, Windows and Web platforms

>>Who tells it will still be like this a year ahead 

Cue   Que Sera, Sera

>>Maybe it would be more flexible to project the desired hierarchy into a sort of numbering code that goes right into the header 

I.e. The Note Title

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1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

Good examples are the mobile versions as EN-Apps. They will not show the tag-superstructure, as if it did not exist.

That's not true for the Android app. It exposes the tree structure, though not in quite the same way as, say, the Windows application, that is, in a single browsable tree. I don't think that you can do tag management on it, but what it does do that's nice is allow you to locate notes with particular sets of tags: you start by browsing to and selecting a tag, which filters the tag list down to tags that label notes that also have the the first tag, and so on. At any point you can then view notes that have that set of tags. Note that there's a similar bit of functionality in the Windows application.

I'll take it as a given that any Evernote application that doesn't expose tag nesting is starting off with one foot in a hole. I'd hope that the stated short-term focus (see the new CEO's blog post elsewhere) will bring parity to all of the applications to access all of Evernote's structure in some fashion, if not identically on all platforms.

1 hour ago, PinkElephant said:

From my understanding of the EN database concept, a deep rigid structure runs contrary to its basic design.

Not quite sure quite what that means, but in Evernote the rules are pretty simple:

  • A note belongs to exactly one notebook (notebooks contain notes, and only notes)
  • A notebook may belong to zero or one stacks (stacks contain notebooks, and only notebooks)
  • A stack must have one or more notebooks (no such thing as an empty stack)
  • A note may have zero or more tags (tags label notes, and only notes)
  • Tags may contain zero or more tags, but a tag at any level of nesting may not contain itself at any lower level of nesting (tag nesting is a tree, not a graph)

Beyond that, there's not much in the way of intrinsic meaning in the use of stacks, notebooks, and tags: users must construct stack, notebook, tag, and notes arrangements to suit their own needs, so this is a pretty flexible architecture. Because of tag nesting, it can be arbitrarily deep. That being said, if nested notebooks were added to the mix, that wouldn't make it necessarily rigid. It'd just be another dimension of structure available.

I guess maybe if you're saying that there's no rigid structure like CardboardBox / Notebook / Binder / Note / Page / <whatever> that'd be true, but in Evernote the number of architectural elements is small.

BTW, the rules above do illustrate why tag trees are not exactly analogous to familiar folder trees. One difference is that in file systems, you can have parallel folder structures, e.g.:

  • A1
    • /B 
      • /C
  • A2
    • /B 
      • /C

In Evernote's tag trees, you can't do that, since tag cannot exist in more than one place in the tag hierarchy. If that sort of structure is important to you, then you need to work around it.

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