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mathew720

Why no dark mode for Windows ?

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All other 3 platforms received the update 

  • Why not Windows Users? 
  • is it a bit too unfair to windows users?

No timeline for windows 

  • Is there no plan at all? 

 

 

 

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Better or Worse, dark mode is a personal preference, I like the window implementaion better than dark mode in Mac 

Why so

1. It makes no change to me if it brighter around or not , boxy is just fine untill it work 

2. Amoled friendly so future proof #00000 , Hence also Battery friendly 

3. Less blue light, hence less circardian change ( making it night mode is not going to change it much )  

Why I preffer dark mode in Evernote 

1. Studys associating Blue light with health risks , because it affects circardian rhythm

 

Why I am sad that for what Evernote did ? 

Ethically wrong to put a group just because they are not vocal possibily 

Also not right to put a user group under health risk, while proving others with solution

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Understand first of all I am not an employee nor do I speak for Evernote. I am just speculating as to why there is no Dark Mode yet on Windows.

I think it is a bit overblown to say they are putting users at a health risk. That is a bit like me complaining that Evernote doesn't change the "Changed Date" for a note when I change tags, so when I sort by recent changes to see which notes I tagged with "Birthday Gifts" I didn't see a note for my nephew's gift because it had an older "changed date" - ergo Evernote hates children.

Dark mode has nothing to do with blue light. You want to use the "Night Light" settings in Windows. You can control the time, or let it go along with sunrise/sunset times in your location, and you can adjust the color temperature to your preferences. This is OS wide, so Evernote is affected.

image.thumb.png.470cb297bef4e972c1e6fe182d722e27.png

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18 hours ago, EdH said:

Windows just got real DarkMode support with 1809

For UWP (Windows Store) apps only. We're an old-style Win32 app (even the WinStore version of EN is still considered Win32).

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43 minutes ago, dconnet said:

For UWP (Windows Store) apps only. We're an old-style Win32 app (even the WinStore version of EN is still considered Win32).

Yup. I am not even sure if they plan to roll it out to all apps. The way Win32 apps work with displays is a mess. They still haven't figured out a graceful transition from regular to HDPI displays without the developer having to rework the app.

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Due to the fact that Evernote refuses to listen to its customer base, I am forced to cancel my subscription and I am looking for an alternative app. Any suggestions?  

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11 hours ago, trjuaugu said:

Due to the fact that Evernote refuses to listen to its customer base, I am forced to cancel my subscription and I am looking for an alternative app. Any suggestions?  

The OS has no Win32 support for Dark Mode, and it just got it with 1809 for UWP apps, and virtually no one has 1809 except insiders. What is Evernote supposed to do? Roll their own UI model because Microsoft won't?

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42 minutes ago, EdH said:

The OS has no Win32 support for Dark Mode, and it just got it with 1809 for UWP apps, and virtually no one has 1809 except insiders. What is Evernote supposed to do? Roll their own UI model because Microsoft won't?

Since EN is implemented above CF3, using web technology such as javascript, html5 and css, I would assume that they can indeed implement it rather easily. At this very moment I use OWL, a FireFox dark mode plugin and on Chrome you have Dark reader etc.

Have a look at Visual Studio Code https://code.visualstudio.com/, a very nice editor completely written in javascript above CF3, with nice dark themes. So, technically it is perfectly possible in this technology.

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Right, but it would be Evernote's flavor of how Darkmode should work, or Firefoxes, or whatever. They could definitely do that. I guess they have chosen, for now at least, to work with the OS makers to ensure good integration into device-wide darkmode so the user experience is consistent, so it works on macOS. iOS doesn't have it yet.. It may work on Android - I don't keep up with that.

And then when the OS does support it, they would have to spend time undoing all of their changes so it did work with the OS-wide setting.

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32 minutes ago, EdH said:

It may work on Android - I don't keep up with that.

It does. But it also causes the quick note that can be created from the pull-down notifications to have unreadable gray-on-white text.

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48 minutes ago, EdH said:

iOS doesn't have it yet

It does.  It's in the latest update.

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34 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

It does.  It's in the latest update.

Yes it does. Thanks. Wasn't aware of that.

As someone who grew up with DarkMode, I've yet to find a reason to jump onto this recent fad. image.thumb.png.9d06dd3f5f8b33ee9fb719cf8e947884.png

image.thumb.png.72b99edfd87dc656db3d15a67515fd66.pngimage.thumb.png.6f1a8362d4146ac01f5e85c0e0fb3c56.png

 

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35 minutes ago, EdH said:

I've yet to find a reason to jump onto this recent fad. 

Doesn't ring my bell either, but I activated it to see what the fuss was about.

Clever example using a sample from our resident author and dark mode proponent.  Do I win a prize for noticing 🙂.  Maybe a key to unlock more emojis?

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33 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Maybe a key to unlock more emojis?

How about no.

🤣🤣

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Ha-ha -- yes, my early computer experiences were with PC (or rather, Compaq Portable) Dark Mode (if you discount the PDP-8 paper tape, IBM punch cards and teletype; that was just college). We used Wordstar as our first programming editor for awhile, I wrote a Lotus 123 spreadsheet reader (hacked the Lotus 123 executable in debug.exe so that I didn't have to have the floppy disk inserted on launch). *sigh* Those were the days, I miss them so... like a hangnail...

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18 hours ago, s2sailor said:

Doesn't ring my bell either, but I activated it to see what the fuss was about.

Clever example using a sample from our resident author and dark mode proponent.  Do I win a prize for noticing 🙂.  Maybe a key to unlock more emojis?

I also grew up with dark mode, then switched to white screens for a big part of my professional life and switched back to dark mode a year ago. I prefer the dark theme because it is much easier on my eyes. I am a professional developer, so I am sitting in front of IDEs for some 8h/day.  It is much healthier for the eyes, less UV (less cataract) and less eye strain.  For me, the difference is spectacular.

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Well, I'm not going back to use Evernote until we have a dark mode.

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Is this so hard to add dark background option? If Evernote developers are really waiting for proper Windows 10 dark theme, then it's already here! Where is our dark theme for Evernote on Windows?????

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hmm.  I use "Ctrl+Alt+I".  

It toggles invert colors in Windows10.

to active it :  Settings > Accessibility > Magnifier > Enable Magnifier

I think its the only option for me until Evernote release dark mode for windows10.

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13 hours ago, vitaliistep said:

Is this so hard to add dark background option? If Evernote developers are really waiting for proper Windows 10 dark theme, then it's already here! Where is our dark theme for Evernote on Windows?????

The dark mode added in Windows 10 is only for UWP/PWA style apps. None of those APIs are available to Win32 apps, so as of right now, if Evernote does this, they will have to roll their own UI changes.

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This is a shame that dark theme was not introduced in Windows and is not even planed in the foreseeable future.

I am a software developer with some vision impairments and I am having a hard time working with white screens. The most professional application I am working with does support a dark theme or at least supports high-contrast mode. Even Windows enabled dark explorer, what I never believed that will happen. 

At least I can use Dark Reader in a browser to achieve some prosthesis of dark Evernote.

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If Windows 10  doesn't support dark mode, as purported by several Evernote replies to this topic, then how is it possible to configure the left panel as dark in the Windows client?
Tools > Options > General > User Interface > 'left panel theme dark'?

Perhaps Windows 10 only supports dark mode on the left vertical 1/5 of the screen?  Indeed, this is a Windows OS design limitation.

We're not getting honest answers from Evernote.  The honest answers are:

1. This isn't a priority for the development engineers, who have other 'cool' features to pursue regardless of what users are asking for.  (I have seen it 1000 times in SW development.)

2. We don't care because we don't need to.

3. See #1.

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7 hours ago, Karlbu said:

If Windows 10  doesn't support dark mode, as purported by several Evernote replies to this topic, then how is it possible to configure the left panel as dark in the Windows client?

Because Evernote developers added a "dark mode" panel, which has nothing to do with any Windows-supported dark mode? Otherwise it would just respond to Windows dark mode setting, right?

7 hours ago, Karlbu said:

1. This isn't a priority for the development engineers, who have other 'cool' features to pursue regardless of what users are asking for.  (I have seen it 1000 times in SW development.)

Well, obviously they're working on other stuff -- or more likely, per the CEO's blog post -- focusing attention on fixing bugs,  improving stability and consistency , etc., rather than adding new functionality. In other words, the developers have been things to work on that the company (not the developers) has deemed to be higher priority. Is this a surprise? 

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How has this not been addressed yet?  I see a lot of highly supported community feature requests that go many years with no attention, and very few significant updates to Evernote. 

I've been a paying user since that option was available (many years) and I have to say I'm really frustrated to see things ignored to the point that community members get so upset.  A lot of people are clearly feeling ignored, which I think is more important to address than any individual feature requests.   Evernote needs to wake up to this, and then eventually stat making changes that should take days, not years.

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Ok, so One note now got Black theme.... 

I have been paying Evernote customer since it became an option..

Don't care about excuses that Windows 10 only supports dark mode for UWP apps.....How hard is it to make background black and text white ?!

Will end subscription and use One note or even roll my own opensource alternative. Sorry but Evernote team is not listening to its customers.

 

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There is a strong demand for a dark mode. The software I use today is dark mode. Only Evernote is not used. It is very painful to use.

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This could be a work around, though it doesn't have all the same functionality as the local Windows Program/App.

In Chrome, Use the Menu > More Tools > Create Shortcut for when logged in to your web account (might need to quickly create the shortcut while the page is loading for https://www.evernote.com/Home.action instead of the generated link for the note at the top of the side column list).

Select Open as Window.

Shows up on your desktop and in the Apps Tab as Evernote Web.

Then add a dark mode reader for Chrome like Dark Reader.

Customize colors as desired.

**works on Google Docs also.**

If you want to try something different for a change, install f.lux and enable Darkroom Mode.

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I got hope that the next evernote version 6.18 would finally include dark theme for windows, waiting several months for this.

As its released now, I am seriously disappointed. After all other platforms already got dark theme, is the credo for windows still "it's ready, when it's ready?" Or can we expect some more details?

Evernote web client in combination with a dark theme extension is an alternative, but does not offer the same smooth user experience as the native windows client.

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4 hours ago, n5z said:

would finally include dark theme for windows

Most other platforms get dark theme support for free. Windows does not. (The Windows dark theme support you hear about is only available to UWP apps. That's not us.) The likelihood of the current Windows version supporting a true dark theme are about 0.1%.

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Thanks @dconnet for clarification,

just to understand your phrase correctly:

Quote

The likelihood of the current Windows version supporting a true dark theme are about 0.1%.

Do you mean the OS windows or the evernote windows version that is unlikely to have a dark theme support? What is still unclear to me: Does Evernote plan to implement a manual theme for windows and when is the expected release date? What does speak against an UWP Evernote release?  Its unfortunate that there is no step in the dark theme train for non UWP apps.

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I meant the Evernote windows version. I have zero insight into what Microsoft is doing!  (And the version we have in the store is not a UWP app - it's the exact same binary you get when you do a direct download and install.

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It is funny that we have been requesting Dark Mode in this thread for 5 to 6 years, and they finally made it, and they closed the thread. Leaving us Windows users to start a new thread for the same request. Do we have to wait for another 5 years or what?

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On 5/17/2019 at 12:57 AM, dconnet said:

Most other platforms get dark theme support for free. Windows does not. (The Windows dark theme support you hear about is only available to UWP apps. That's not us.) The likelihood of the current Windows version supporting a true dark theme are about 0.1%.

Not sure if this is a official reply from Evernote (because @dconnet is shown as staff) but I hope this is not. This reply is misleading and irresponsible from a company that have so many paid subscribers. 

I am a software developer so I understand what that UWP argument means. But what this reply implied was that Evernote would give us dark mode, only if it cost them nothing (as low cost as just adding a new parameter to the current editor API). Evernote is telling us that we don't have the dark mode because MS doesn't want to implement it. No, that's wrong. Evernote doesn't give us the Dark Mode because Evernote doesn't want to implement it. They just want to see if they can wait until MS implement the dark mode for Win32 Editor. 

It is very irresponsible reply, because after all, who get the money from paid subscribers, MS or Evernote? Then why blame MS on this?

The reply is misleading because, there are so many tools I am using on Windows with dark mode/theme. Just name a few that I use more often, VSCode and Notion (Electron based) both support custom theme very well. Tools as simple as Simple Note support dark mode as well. Old tool like Eclipse and notepad++, at least have dark theme editors (Eclipse is SWT based, NP++ should be Win32). And Visual Studio also with dark mode (should be Win32 too).  So, if it is a technical issue or a architectural design level problem that makes Evernote unable to give us Dark Mode in Windows version, just tell users the truth. Please do not blame another company for your laziness or incapability. 

Anyway, thanks for replying though, at least we knew that's VERY VERY unlikely we are going to have a Dark Mode in Windows. 

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5 minutes ago, faifaifai said:

So, if it is a technical issue or a architectural design level problem that makes Evernote unable to give us Dark Mode in Windows version, just tell users the truth.

My interpretation of the response is that it is a bandwidth / priority issue.

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6 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

My interpretation of the response is that it is a bandwidth / priority issue.

Yes that's what I have said we would only have Dark Mode "only if it cost Evernote nothing". That means this issue will never get the resource needed, and we will never get Dark Mode for Windows version. 

What I don't feel good here is that the reply is not honest about the current situation. If they are not going to give us Dark Mode, just say it. Don't mislead people with UWP/Win32 sh*t. 

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5 hours ago, faifaifai said:

What I don't feel good here is that the reply is not honest about the current situation

I think they gave a pretty honest answer.  The likelihood in the short term is low, but never?  Who knows?  They have never been one to give out roadmaps.

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On 5/27/2019 at 3:53 AM, s2sailor said:

My interpretation of the response is that it is a bandwidth / priority issue.

Precisely. My (very rough) estimate is that it would be a minimum of 6 months of effort. Almost everything in the UI is custom drawn. (Actually many of the custom drawn things are probably easier to update than some of the standard windows controls are!)

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2 hours ago, dconnet said:

My (very rough) estimate is that it would be a minimum of 6 months of effort.

Holey moley! Dunno if that's just development time or design + development + QA/testing + etc. time, but that's an impressive amount. One of my old managers used to say, "well, I take your estimate, multiply by 3 and add 2 units, and then pass it on to my boss, who probably does the same thing." That being said, I can't even imagine how long it would take to do the software that I work on (lots and lots of dialogs, toolbar sets, etc.); thankfully, nobody's asking us for dark mode...

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39 minutes ago, jefito said:

Dunno if that's just development time

That.

Edit: BTW, I should mention I played around with trying to expand our current theming to the list controls (standard windows controls) that we use for the note list. It was a complete failure at making it look right.

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Guest Aleksander

Hi, I've been using Evernote for a few months and I absolutely love it--in pair with TickTick, they're significantly boosting my productivity and helping me stay organized. However, I'm wondering when or if there's going to be a dark mode for either the Windows app or the Web version? The white is really harsh on my eyes and it makes it difficult to read after a while :( 

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1 hour ago, Guest Aleksander said:

Hi, I've been using Evernote for a few months and I absolutely love it--in pair with TickTick, they're significantly boosting my productivity and helping me stay organized. However, I'm wondering when or if there's going to be a dark mode for either the Windows app or the Web version? The white is really harsh on my eyes and it makes it difficult to read after a while :(

Merged your post with the main "Dark mode for Windows" topic. Please read replies from @dconnet above.

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On 5/16/2019 at 7:57 PM, dconnet said:

Most other platforms get dark theme support for free. Windows does not. (The Windows dark theme support you hear about is only available to UWP apps. That's not us.) The likelihood of the current Windows version supporting a true dark theme are about 0.1%.

But we are paying for Evernote, thus Evernote can pay to have the dark theme implemented. What's the big deal? I thought we are paying to keep the product in development and have new features offered to us.

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I would love to see a dark mode as well - what helps and is very eye friendly is a monitor with eye saving mode which had a more reddish color adjustment, helps a lot and I also have custom made glasses that are darker as normal reading glasses to further dim the radiation.

I also work with the windows 10 dark mode, love it

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Hi.

I'm a developer, designer and photographer. And I use evernote plus for many years to control tasks and content of my interest, beyound my courses. I have more than 1k of notes that I use every day. So it's a great tool for me, thanks for all the hard work done so far, although a lot of people are paying to use the program.

I am from the old school, started in 1989 when my screen was really black. I'm in 50's now, not anymore healthly like you young talent guys from Evernote Co. My eyes are not the same. And will need work for more 15 years, to then get some rest. So, my eyes will be worst in more 15 years. 

So, I use some other very useful programms daily, in my Windows 10 platform. They are very helpful in dark mode. Best for me would be if my evernote was in dark mode too.


Daily I use for work:

I use Sublime text for windows in dark mode (not a windows store app). 
I use Kindle for windows in dark mode (windows store app).
I use Chrome for windows in dark mode (not a windows store app).
I use Photoshop for windows in dark mode (not a windows store app).
I use Lightroom for windows in dark mode (not a windows store app).
I use Xodo PDF for windows in dark mode (windows store app).
I use Windows operating system and how many Windows apps possible in dark mode.
Ah, I use evernote for android in dark mode, this is so good.

And I use Evernote for windows... in white mode. For God Sake! Is this a uncle Bill problem?

Cheers

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xodo.jpg

kindle.jpg

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photoshop.jpg

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16 hours ago, rogerpec said:

And I use Evernote for windows... in white mode. For God Sake! Is this a uncle Bill problem?

Hi.  Please see the comments in this thread.  We're told Windows won't support it...  :(

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6 hours ago, gazumped said:

Hi.  Please see the comments in this thread.  We're told Windows won't support it...  :(

More specifically, Windows dark mode doesn't support the old Win32 style apps, which is what 99% of apps on Windows are. It only supports the UWP, PWA style apps. Evernote could roll their own, but instead of it being a single Dark Mode experience for users, users would have to manually configure each Win32 app, and Evernote (and other dev's) would have to come up with a UI to modify, and support multiple DPI modes, video drivers, etc. It gets to be a mess. I can be done of course, but Windows makes it really really difficult and tedious to do.

And I don't think all Store apps can be supported either. There is an Evernote in the store, but it is a Win32 app written with a wrapper so it can be downloaded from the store.

I'm not defending Evernote, or Windows. It is just a huge mess. Which is to be expected with an OS that has its roots in the mid-90's.

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2 hours ago, EdH said:

More specifically, Windows dark mode doesn't support the old Win32 style apps, which is what 99% of apps on Windows are

...including Evernote. Many apps are now 64-bit (we ship 32- and 64-bit versions of our software), but still use much the same Windows API as the 32-bitters. Speaking for my company, we won't be making any attempt to make UWP or any other versions, any time soon. Part of that is level-of-effort (large and oainful), demand for UWP apps (small to non-existent), and belief that backwards-compatibility to old Win32 style apps is not going away any time soon (pretty certain).

2 hours ago, EdH said:

I'm not defending Evernote, or Windows. It is just a huge mess. Which is to be expected with an OS that has its roots in the mid-90's.

Now I'm curious about the situation in Linux, with its roots in the 70's... but then again, so does MacOS.. :) 

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Win32 refers to both 32bit and 64bit apps. It is the API interface, not the bittedness.

The underlying platform of macOS does have its roots in the 70's, but the user interface was developed fresh when they started over with OS X and was designed to handle multiple DPI monitors of high and low res (which Windows still cannot handle without the DPI percentage adjustment hack) and their UI was designed to have better control so the OS could adjust apps colors right from the start. Hence system wide dark mode without apps having to be rewritten.

Windows has done the same rewrite by the way, but only for UWP/PWA style apps. Which no one is using. My understanding it is a virtual impossibility to do it for Win32. It would be as much work for developers to rewrite to support as it would to just redo their apps. Which will be never. We'll be dealing with Win32 APIs until well past 2050. IT departments will not rewrite apps to support dark mode. If you want dark mode, they will let you use the AS/400.

Ibm green screen tutorial

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I don't understand why some people in this thread appear fixated on Win32 v. UWP and seem to be missing the obvious clue that Dark mode has already been partially implemented... It already exists in some fashion in *PRESENTATION MODE* for a note (click the Moon icon). And from my tests, it works pretty darn well which is to be expected considering it's probably doing some really basic CSS styling since notes are already HTML-based anyway.

And heck, if they're concerned that some notes won't show up correctly in some globally applied Dark Mode, then they could just take a hint from the Firefox Dark Reader extension and allow you to turn it on/off at the Note level and have the system persist the specific note preferences.

And honestly, most Windows users concerned with dark mode are most likely already configuring apps at the individual level via themes for dark mode - Pycharm, Visual Studio, Notepad++, Sublime, etc. Who cares if one app's dark mode differs thematically from another app's dark mode. I'm not decorating my house for jebus sake.

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2 hours ago, cacotigon said:

I don't understand why some people in this thread appear fixated on Win32 v. UWP and seem to be missing the obvious clue that Dark mode has already been partially implemented... It already exists in some fashion in *PRESENTATION MODE* for a note (click the Moon icon). And from my tests, it works pretty darn well which is to be expected considering it's probably doing some really basic CSS styling since notes are already HTML-based anyway.

That's in the note, and not in the UI, which I think is where @dconnet was coming from, at least per the post above: 

You don't get UI dark mode support for free in Win32, so it then becomes a question of level-of-effort prioritization. Which doesn't seem likely at the moment...

 

 

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20 hours ago, jefito said:

That's in the note, and not in the UI, which I think is where @dconnet was coming from, at least per the post above: 

You don't get UI dark mode support for free in Win32, so it then becomes a question of level-of-effort prioritization. Which doesn't seem likely at the moment...

  

 

 

Ah, I hadn't realized they were referring to the UI itself. I can't speak for the majority of Evernote Dark-mode proponents (wouldn't mind seeing this in a poll though), but for myself, I'd be fine with the standard looking  interface as it is as long as the notes themselves had dark mode since that's where the majority of my attention is directed anyway.

Most of the people I know who use dark mode is because its less strain on the eyes, or in some cases because myodesopsia makes white backgrounds more distracting.

If Evernote were making the case that it wouldn't be thematically consistent having dark notes with standard looking GUI then why provide the option for dark mode on just the notebook-tree hierarchy in the first place...

 

 

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3 hours ago, cacotigon said:

If Evernote were making the case that it wouldn't be thematically consistent having dark notes with standard looking GUI then why provide the option for dark mode on just the notebook-tree hierarchy in the first place...

Can't say for sure, but the left panel is newer UI, I believe, and maybe they designed in dark mode up front.The Evernote dev folks would know a lot better, and it does appear that they've already done some kind of initial estimation, but beyond that I couldn't say.

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This would at least be an easy option that could be put into the WebUI.  I mean it would literally just be a different CSS to use to present the interface, which could be used as a catchall for unsupported specific applications.  I've never understood the reluctance to support an easy win.  I've found posts about dark-mode in the desktop client that date back to 2013.  You'd think that in 6 yrs it could be prioritized.

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It's been a while since my last reply, and seems there is an answer to the Windows dark mode here:

Evernote is building an unified editor for all 5 platforms, instead of maintaining them separately, meaning that if other platforms have dark mode, Windows will have it too. 

And the font and styling of the new editor is also simplified, so even it was not mentioned in the video, it is very likely it will have dark mode built-in. 

P.S.: Glad to see EN being more open to users and let us know what is going on with their development. People are willing to wait, just let us know that the team is actually working on it. 

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9 hours ago, faifaifai said:

meaning that if other platforms have dark mode, Windows will have it too. 

... or it could mean that if Windows can't handle Dark Mode,  the rest are 'unified' by losing it. 

Not saying that's going to happen,  but the Evernote Windows developers seemed pretty clear this was not something they could deliver.

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15 hours ago, saphetiger said:

This would at least be an easy option that could be put into the WebUI.  I mean it would literally just be a different CSS to use to present the interface, which could be used as a catchall for unsupported specific applications.  I've never understood the reluctance to support an easy win.  I've found posts about dark-mode in the desktop client that date back to 2013.  You'd think that in 6 yrs it could be prioritized.

We're talking about the native Windows application here. The UI is written in native Windows, not WebUI. Rewriting that UI would be a pain point, and not cheap, as alluded to by @dconnetabove. This would not be an "easy win". 

Note that the Windows application is probably not going away. In the post by Evernote CEO here, he says::

Quote

3. Following up on #2 above, we are NOT planning on eliminating Windows and Mac versions of Evernote with local stores, nor Android and iOS versions with local stores, etc.  Being able to use Evernote whether online or offline is a major feature/benefit and in a million years that's not going away.  Of course, having a local store would be even better if sync was fully robust.  Working on that.

If that means that the Windows native application stays, then dark mode remains a problem. If it means a complete replacement of the current native application with something that supports local stores, then yes, you'll probably get dark mode support. The danger there is if the full range of power user oriented facilities available in the current, then they risk using a lot of dedicated Evernote users who've invested a lot to make Evernote work for them. I doubt that they'd do that.

Also note that there was was -- unsurprisingly -- no mention of when such a thing would be delivered.

15 hours ago, saphetiger said:

I've found posts about dark-mode in the desktop client that date back to 2013.  You'd think that in 6 yrs it could be prioritized.

I've found posts (and participated in them) asking for other things since 2008/2009 (nested notebooks, improved search language, etc.). Prioritization is not a magic wand that makes things get done. Everything has a cost, and that cost must be balanced against other competing concerns: if we do X, then we can't do Y. One of my favorite takes on this is Minus 100 Points.

Don't get me wrong -- dark mode is a popular request, and an important usability/accessibility feature for some folks, and I do sympathize, but I'm also sympathetic to the plight of the developers.

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On 7/2/2019 at 8:18 PM, gazumped said:

... or it could mean that if Windows can't handle Dark Mode,  the rest are 'unified' by losing it. 

Not saying that's going to happen,  but the Evernote Windows developers seemed pretty clear this was not something they could deliver.

True that they didn't promise anything. However by unifying the editor into one single code base, they will free up more resources and be able to fine tune the editor according to user feedback. Before the editor was unified, when they needed to do a simple modification to the editor, the communication between 5 development teams and product managers must be exhausting, and keeping the user experience consistent across all 5 platforms was almost a impossible engineering goal (and why we have this thread here). 

At least now Evernote team is doing the first step right, so let's hope for the best. 

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EVERNOTE DEVS - ADD A DARK MODE AND MAKE EVERNOTE BEAUTIFUL AGAIN!

 

I loved Evernote, but its UI now looks very dated and looks ANTIQUE on Windows 10... Every other App I use now is "beautiful" in Windows 10...  And in dark mode (Office, my DAW, Chrome, you name it...)

 

I give up, I'm switching to Microsoft OneNote with a beautiful Dark Mode:

image.thumb.png.ad5bb8cb143ef52a5e97e4338f26d985.png

 

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Windows 10 One Note app now has dark mode... They also have a Import Evernote notes app so you can port easily.. looks like I'll be switching. Such a shame on Evernote to have "no timeline" for this feature. They probably don't user evernote themselves on Windows.. They are probably programming on their macs. 

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12 hours ago, psierak said:

Windows 10 One Note app now has dark mode... They also have a Import Evernote notes app so you can port easily.. looks like I'll be switching. Such a shame on Evernote to have "no timeline" for this feature. They probably don't user evernote themselves on Windows.. They are probably programming on their macs. 

Farewell, then. I'm sure your mind-reading skills will be missed.

OK, sorry for the counter-sarcasm. But none of us here, neither those who can manage in Evernote without dark mode nor those who can't, knows what Evernote's development priorities are. And of course Microsoft can gift its own note app with dark mode, while making it difficult for other apps to have it. 

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On 7/17/2019 at 3:30 PM, VredalertV said:

EVERNOTE DEVS - ADD A DARK MODE AND MAKE EVERNOTE BEAUTIFUL AGAIN!

 

I loved Evernote, but its UI now looks very dated and looks ANTIQUE on Windows 10... Every other App I use now is "beautiful" in Windows 10...  And in dark mode (Office, my DAW, Chrome, you name it...)

 

I give up, I'm switching to Microsoft OneNote with a beautiful Dark Mode:

image.thumb.png.ad5bb8cb143ef52a5e97e4338f26d985.png

 

 

I am with you buddy, start migrating from evernote to onenote too ! 😎

We have requested dark mode for windows since 7 years ago and look they just dont care about our feedback.

now microsoft launched DARK MODE on ONENOTE ! microsoft knows that dark mode is really important for us and most likely will beat EVERNOTE because for feature they underestimated or ignored (7 years and still counting proves obviously evernote team think dark mode is just not important)

Let's see how much user will started leaving like us and move to onenote just because of dark mode. When total users keep declining, then evernote will regret their decision.

 

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6 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I know it's a pain to actually read through the thread, but....

 

Requested since 2012, says something like minimum of 6 months of efforts and only available on UWP?

Lot of other note taking apps based on win32 has dark mode already such as simplenote, google keep, joplin, and many more, they knows it is important features and even google understands.

so basically mr.mathew720 means 7 years is not enough, Maybe 20 years later then evernote implements dark mode then it's already too late, people already using onenote at that time.

 

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7 hours ago, shojimeguro said:

Requested since 2012, says something like minimum of 6 months of efforts and only available on UWP?

Six months of effort is a huge cost in development time -- development resources are finite. And I can almost guarantee you that there are other items with higher priority in the list. So high cost and lower priority means it's less likely to be done sooner. Simple project management.

If dark mode is your critical feature, then you should probably seek elsewhere, unfortunately.

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I've seen this feature requested enough that it's priority should probably raised.  I haven't seen too many more important features delivered in the last few years of using Evernote., but admit that I use it less than I used to because it's bright on my screen.  

If alternative color schemes are really 6mo of effort, then there is obviously some engineering debt around how this is being done, and that  itself would warrant taking a look at it. 

I would be stunned  if this was actually a 6mo feature.   Bottom line, if reading and writing notes creates undue eyestrain, and therefore discouraging use of the app, what do the rest of the features matter? 

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28 minutes ago, saphetiger said:

I've seen this feature requested enough that it's priority should probably raised.  I haven't seen too many more important features delivered in the last few years of using Evernote., but admit that I use it less than I used to because it's bright on my screen.  

We users don't have a lot of insight into Evernote's issue list and their prioritization, but there's lots and lots of feature requests in this subforum (specific to Windows) and the general feature request subforum (which often apply to Evernote), We do know, or can infer, from the CEO's comments elsewhere that the Windows platform is roughly 12% of their user base, so that's a factor as well. Combined with that, they'currently engaged in large re-engineering effort across all of their clients; see the Behind the Scenes videos (https://discussion.evernote.com/forum/306-behind-the-scenes-series/) and any forum postings by the CEO @Ian Small. All of which impinge on development resources. It's not solely a matter of priority, it's always a matter of priority vs. cost.

44 minutes ago, saphetiger said:

If alternative color schemes are really 6mo of effort, then there is obviously some engineering debt around how this is being done, and that  itself would warrant taking a look at it. 

Sure there's technical debt associated with re-engineering classic Win32 API based UI for dark mode. Because it's not supported by the Microsoft APIs. See, e.g. https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/e36eb4c0-4370-4933-943d-b6fe22677e6c/dark-mode-apis?forum=windowssdk. There's no magic "Expecto Darkonus" spell, sad to say.

57 minutes ago, saphetiger said:

I would be stunned  if this was actually a 6mo feature.   Bottom line, if reading and writing notes creates undue eyestrain, and therefore discouraging use of the app, what do the rest of the features matter? 

The 6 month estimate comes from @dconnet in this very thread. Notice their user badge. I'll leave it to you to discuss with someone who's actually seen the code. For what it's worth, I value functionality, reliability and usability over dark mode, by a wide margin. Eyestrain isn't a problem for everyone (or me fortunately).  But all use cases are  different, and your mileage may vary.

Other platforms evidently get dark mode support "for free", so that's been added as feasible. For the Windows client, a different story. I think that if it were easy, they'd have already done it.

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11 hours ago, shojimeguro said:

Requested since 2012, says something like minimum of 6 months of efforts and only available on UWP?

Lot of other note taking apps based on win32 has dark mode already such as simplenote, google keep, joplin, and many more, they knows it is important features and even google understands....

Do those other apps have dark mode in their Windows Store versions only? For some reason, problems with the Windows Store version of Evernote get reported here fairly frequently, introduced by something Windows does to the app in putting it into the Store. I can understand why Evernote would not want to introduce a feature available only in the Windows Store version, without a lot of ground-up programming to get it into the regular app.

3 hours ago, saphetiger said:

.... Bottom line, if reading and writing notes creates undue eyestrain, and therefore discouraging use of the app, what do the rest of the features matter? 

This, I think, is the most important point, avoiding speculations (including mine) about what Evernote is capable of doing and why and when. For some people, the eyestrain issue is first and foremost, preventing work from getting done. So I hope that Evernote will indeed do this; but in the meantime, it may indeed be necessary for those for whom this is the primary issue to find other tools.

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22 hours ago, jefito said:

Six months of effort is a huge cost in development time -- development resources are finite. And I can almost guarantee you that there are other items with higher priority in the list. So high cost and lower priority means it's less likely to be done sooner. Simple project management.

If dark mode is your critical feature, then you should probably seek elsewhere, unfortunately.

Sure huge cost, but everybody knows evernote has much better profit than other small apps like simplenote, google keep, joplin, and many more so huge cost is most likely invalid reasons.

yes i am seeking onenote since microsoft seems to understand their users much better than evernote

21 hours ago, saphetiger said:

I've seen this feature requested enough that it's priority should probably raised.  I haven't seen too many more important features delivered in the last few years of using Evernote., but admit that I use it less than I used to because it's bright on my screen.  

If alternative color schemes are really 6mo of effort, then there is obviously some engineering debt around how this is being done, and that  itself would warrant taking a look at it. 

I would be stunned  if this was actually a 6mo feature.   Bottom line, if reading and writing notes creates undue eyestrain, and therefore discouraging use of the app, what do the rest of the features matter? 

Agreed, even big company such as google, microsoft, apple, and many more are implemented this feature because they know it is important.

such a shame big company such as evernote doesnt understand.

18 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Do those other apps have dark mode in their Windows Store versions only? For some reason, problems with the Windows Store version of Evernote get reported here fairly frequently, introduced by something Windows does to the app in putting it into the Store. I can understand why Evernote would not want to introduce a feature available only in the Windows Store version, without a lot of ground-up programming to get it into the regular app.

This, I think, is the most important point, avoiding speculations (including mine) about what Evernote is capable of doing and why and when. For some people, the eyestrain issue is first and foremost, preventing work from getting done. So I hope that Evernote will indeed do this; but in the meantime, it may indeed be necessary for those for whom this is the primary issue to find other tools.

i thought we are now talking about win32 right? then you mean simplenote, joplin, and many more are not win32 apps ?

they dont even need windows store version to get dark mode, they can implement it on win32 !

yes i glad you understand how eyestrain issue is important but evernote ignored it

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1 hour ago, shojimeguro said:

Sure huge cost, but everybody knows evernote has much better profit than other small apps like simplenote, google keep, joplin, and many more so huge cost is most likely invalid reasons.

I don't think that anyone knows any such thing. Numbers, please?

Here's a number for you: Consider 6 months of developer time to implement. If that developer's salary is, say $100K/year, and there's company 50% overhead for benefits, infrastructure, etc. per employee, then that's a cost of $150K to develop the feature, not including design, QA, etc. That's very much ballpark but should give a rough idea. Now consider that the Windows side of Evernote is 12% of their users, and that Evernote has other competing features that they want/need to be implemented as well, including other user feature requests. How does that stack up against the profit number that you''re going to provide?

1 hour ago, shojimeguro said:

yes i am seeking onenote since microsoft seems to understand their users much better than evernote

Good luck. I tried to import my Evernote note database into OneNote, using Microsoft's importer a year or so ago, and it didn't go well, in fact, it was a disaster. Beyond that, OneNote is a good product, no doubt, but Evernote fits my workflow much better. But if it works better  for you, then of course you should use it.

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4 hours ago, shojimeguro said:

Sure huge cost, but everybody knows evernote has much better profit than other small apps like simplenote, google keep, joplin, and many more so huge cost is most likely invalid reasons.

yes i am seeking onenote since microsoft seems to understand their users much better than evernote

Agreed, even big company such as google, microsoft, apple, and many more are implemented this feature because they know it is important.

such a shame big company such as evernote doesnt understand.

i thought we are now talking about win32 right? then you mean simplenote, joplin, and many more are not win32 apps ?

they dont even need windows store version to get dark mode, they can implement it on win32 !

yes i glad you understand how eyestrain issue is important but evernote ignored it

 

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I think it's fair to say that windows being 12% of their user base is a deceptive metric.  If one noticed dark mode is missing, then chances are one is not using it exclusively on windows.  This inconsistency in the ui seems pretty at odds with stated goals of a consistent user experience. 

In all the years I've used Evernote, the stability has been pretty good, though any stability issues I've had have been in the poor neglected windows client. 

So let's set the windows32, windows and other windows specific versions aside.  

Is it 6mo if effort for the web version?  That would be a viable work around.

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On 8/14/2019 at 4:05 AM, jefito said:

development resources are finite.

Even more so now, since (um...) a few of us have moved on... The Windows crew was thin before I left. (:waves: Hi @RMorgan!)

(other quotes pulled from other posts in order as I read)

> then there is obviously some engineering debt around how this is being done

The code base is only about 15 years old... "some" is putting it mildly...

> I would be stunned  if this was actually a 6mo feature

I wouldn't. I used to work in that code.

> "Expecto Darkonus" spell

(I love you...)

> I can understand why Evernote would not want to introduce a feature available only in the Windows Store version

Remember, the EN store version is literally the Win32 binary in special packaging. So no "Expecto Darkonus" there either...

> If that developer's salary is, say $100K/year,

Remember, EN is in Silly Valley. I think college grads get more than that...

 

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1 hour ago, saphetiger said:

I think it's fair to say that windows being 12% of their user base is a deceptive metric.    If one noticed dark mode is missing, then chances are one is not using it exclusively on windows. 

The 12% figure is from the CEO,- albeit indirectly. See his post at  https://discussion.evernote.com/topic/120075-behind-the-scenes-series-improving-search-in-evernote-web/?tab=comments#comment-538307, and related posts, which you can track down there. It's probably better to say that it's 12% of Evernote usage, rather than user base, since many folks are indeed on multiple platforms. Even so, the comment on exclusive use of Windows has no bearing on this discussion. We know that 'there are folks who want dark mode on Windows, and we know roughly the relative Windows usage, and we can guess -- ballpark again -- at a rough figure for implementation.

1 hour ago, saphetiger said:

This inconsistency in the ui seems pretty at odds with stated goals of a consistent user experience. 

Um, well, knowing that you have an inconsistency and wanting to remedy it is one thing. Committing a not insignificant amount of company resources to implement the required changes is quite another.

1 hour ago, saphetiger said:

Is it 6mo if effort for the web version?  That would be a viable work around.

Different discussion entirely, since it's a different team, and also depends on your particular use case. I couldn't use the web client for my day-to-day work, so not viable for me. YMMV, of course.

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1 hour ago, dcon said:

Even more so now, since (um...) a few of us have moved on... The Windows crew was thin before I left. (:waves: Hi @RMorgan!)

Nothing I'd know anything about, except for you having left, of course. 

1 hour ago, dcon said:

> then there is obviously some engineering debt around how this is being done

The code base is only about 15 years old... "some" is putting it mildly..

Tell me that the old timeline view (from ca. 2008 and before) is still in there!! How do I turn it on?? And wasn't there a C# phase there (or was it Manageg C++ or C++/CLI?). It's all such a blur. But some sympathy, yes -- the code base I work on is ~20 years old, and retains the original MFC Doc/View file names, though it's moved on much much farther than its original scope.

1 hour ago, dcon said:

> If that developer's salary is, say $100K/year,

Remember, EN is in Silly Valley. I think college grads get more than that...

Yeah, I was deliberately low-balling that whole estimate so that I couldn't be accused of over-estimating to prove a point. Even so, that's still a little high for the far off corner of the country where I live.

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4 hours ago, jefito said:

Um, well, knowing that you have an inconsistency and wanting to remedy it is one thing. Committing a not insignificant amount of company resources to implement the required changes is quite another. 

Consistent user experience across platforms has been a topic frequently embraced when talking about future EN development. 

 

4 hours ago, jefito said:

Different discussion entirely, since it's a different team, and also depends on your particular use case. I couldn't use the web client for my day-to-day work, so not viable for me. YMMV, of course.

This is a possible bang for buck win.  A catch all where if this is something that you care about you could have dark mode on your platform. 

The fundamental argument that the windows code base is old and therefore cumbersome to update only hints that it needs more attention, not that it warrants attention less. 

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1 hour ago, saphetiger said:

Consistent user experience across platforms has been a topic frequently embraced when talking about future EN development. 

Talked about, yes, and for a long time. But it's still a work in progress (see the Behind the Scenes video series). And again, the high cost thingy would tend to push it down the prioritization list, most likely.

1 hour ago, saphetiger said:

This is a possible bang for buck win.  A catch all where if this is something that you care about you could have dark mode on your platform. 

Do you really think that hordes of new paid users would come flooding in due to the addition of dark mode? Really?

1 hour ago, saphetiger said:

The fundamental argument that the windows code base is old and therefore cumbersome to update only hints that it needs more attention, not that it warrants attention less. 

The fundamental argument is that particular feature requires a lot of time (read money) to implement, regardless of the state of the rest of the code base. Neither you nor I can see behind the walls to say how they make their prioritizations. But it sounds to me -- based on available evidence -- that the answer's no, at least at this time, bcause it's not worth it, for whatever reason (and there are almost certainly other factors going on behind the scenes).

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1 hour ago, jefito said:

Do you really think that hordes of new paid users would come flooding in due to the addition of dark mode? Really?

No, but I do think not having this while competitors do could definitely convince people to go elsewhere.  I could also see free users not becoming paid subscribers for the same. 

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Just a little reminder, Evernote is now working on a unified editor across all 5 platforms, instead of maintaining them separately, meaning that if other platforms have dark mode, Windows will have it too (very likely). 

I totally understand the frustration and disappointment of Evernote not being improved much over the past few years. I did move away to competitor product, until I see Evernote releasing the Behind The Scene videos. The intention of these videos is clear, Evernote is trying to improve the product, but it takes time, and during this period, old versions will have the least improvement. Evernote is asking us to give them time. So far from the Behind The Scene videos, the future of Evernote seems pretty promising. I am convinced, so I came back. Maybe wait for a few months to see how it goes. 

But that doesn't mean it is for everyone. I am not here to convince people to stay, just to let people know this information. Making a switch and having to setup all the workflow from the ground up is always painful and expensive. So providing this little piece of information might help people when they have to make a decision. 

Hope this helps. 

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21 hours ago, jefito said:

And wasn't there a C# phase there

That was the previous store version. When I first joined (2013), there was a single contractor who worked on that. I think he was there about a year (fuzzy memory), then that version went into a holding pattern until the Win32 version was packaged for the store.

> Tell me that the old timeline view (from ca. 2008 and before) is still in there!!

Sorry, no (at least I don't think so - pretty sure it was out of the code before I began). Usually when a major feature is removed, it's really removed.

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2 hours ago, dcon said:

That was the previous store version. When I first joined (2013), there was a single contractor who worked on that. I think he was there about a year (fuzzy memory), then that version went into a holding pattern until the Win32 version was packaged for the store.

> Tell me that the old timeline view (from ca. 2008 and before) is still in there!!

Sorry, no (at least I don't think so - pretty sure it was out of the code before I began). Usually when a major feature is removed, it's really removed.

Ha -- all that was just kidding. I didn't like the timeline version when I first encountered Evernote, but when that was replaced and I checked it out again, I jumped on right away and have been an Evernoter ever since. I think that there actually was a .Net version (3.5??) that was the standard release (not store) but if I recall correctly, its performance wasn't great.=, and it went away in favor of straight Win32, which it's been ever since. Oh, Google to the rescue: https://gigaom.com/2010/01/22/evernote-3-5-for-windows-released/. I think that the original store version may have been the C# version you're referring to, and it was never all that useful to me. I checked it out, but it wasn't even close to what I need.

13 hours ago, faifaifai said:

Just a little reminder, Evernote is now working on a unified editor across all 5 platforms, instead of maintaining them separately, meaning that if other platforms have dark mode, Windows will have it too (very likely). 

Right. That's the "work in progress" bit that I referred to. The "when" part is not clear currently, its immanence plus the estimated effort to convert the Win32 version to support dark mode means that they're almost certainly not gonna do it for Win32; your comment "Evernote is trying to improve the product, but it takes time, and during this period, old versions will have the least improvement" pretty much nails it.

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On 8/16/2019 at 9:24 AM, jefito said:

 just kidding

:) i knew that!

On 8/16/2019 at 9:24 AM, jefito said:

think that there actually was a .Net version (3.5??)

Yes, I heard stories of that! As far I know, when that was abandoned, the original C++ code from before was brought back. (That also poisoned the lead dev to anything XAML related)

On 8/16/2019 at 9:24 AM, jefito said:

I think that the original store version may have been the C# version you're referring to

Yes, completely different from v3.5.

On 8/16/2019 at 9:24 AM, jefito said:

The "when" part is not clear currently,

Originally, it was supposed to be well before when I left. I literally LOLd at them (as my old boss can attest to!). He did (grudgingly) admit that I was right... I'm not running that preview/beta, so no idea where they are on it.

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Again @dcon (and sorry, can't stop thinking of the popular rodent control product line when I see the new moniker), thanks for the insights, your work on the Windows Evernote, and your participation on the forums both then and now. Hope that you find happiness in your new endeavor.

I haven't run the Windows preview/beta either, just following the current new web beta, and will try out the next phase Windows application so long as we can run it side-by-side with the old one (with separate databases) as promised.

If the lead developer you're talking about was @kvitekp, he was also a great forum resource. I know a fair bit about operating Evernote for Windows, but there's nothing so definitive as the information coming from someone familiar with the code/design. Anyways, cheers!

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