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Firefox support for new web version updates

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Hello,

I'm a heavy Evernote user and a Premium subscriber. I'm also a Linux user in some of the computers I use, and I was surprised to see that newest updates on the web version are not compatible to Firefox (the newest Firefox!). I'm forced to use Chrome/Safari or use an older version if I insist on Firefox. I find it extremely disappointing to Firefox users and a nod to Linux users that a desktop solution for Linux - something that we are waiting for years - is being totally dismissed. I really hope is something temporary and I would like to hear if other users or Evernote employees can offer other - and more hopeful - information on this topic.

Thanks in advance.


 

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I, too, am disappointed not to be able to use the web client on Firefox. I've mostly used the Windows desktop client but read in another thread that the web client is now much improved, comparable to the Mac version and wanted to try it out. I refuse to install Chrome on my new laptop, already got rid of MS Edge.

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我也需要這個支援 firefox。
I also need this support firefox.

可以在已付費的使用者設定裡,提供直接跟你們回應需要跟問題的區域嗎?台灣繁體中文語系的問題,也需要另外有人可以支援。

Can you provide an area that directly responds to your needs and questions in the paid user settings? The problem of Taiwanese traditional Chinese language also requires someone else to support it.

 

myEvernote.png

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Are there any plans to ever create a Linux desktop client? Until that happens there is no way I will go back to paying for a subscription - I was a Premium member for a number of years.

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@AÓK I just checked on it and a Linux client is on our roadmap in the future. I can't provide any more details beyond that, but it's something we should get as part of other work we're doing. 

We've got some internal developers who are itching for a Linux client too.

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On 10/8/2018 at 9:52 PM, Scott T. said:

I wanted to give everybody here some information, rather than leave you all in the dark. The new web client does not support Firefox due to the note editor code utilizing WebKit, the rendering code used in most major browsers (Chrome, Safari, Opera,...). Firefox continues to use Gecko. The result is that a lot of the functionality built into our updated editor, which is used by the new web client and all our other clients, does not work well on Firefox. We're testing internally on Firefox, but the user experience is not up-to-par and we would not feel comfortable releasing it to our customers.

I can't provide any specific timeline on when we might have a version that would be compatible with Firefox. Our team that works on the shared editor is evaluating and prioritizing Firefox support, but that's as much as I can confirm.

Dear @Scott T.,

It's a bit off topic, but you've mentioned that Opera is using the webkit engine as Chrome and Safari. However these two browsers are supported, but Opera is not. Do you know anything about the reasons? And when it will be possible to use the new Evernote on this browser?

 

Thanks!

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@tkarika I spoke with our web team. They will have our QA team run through regression testing on Opera to validate functionality. Due to lower usage, I don't think we ever prioritized validating it as we started to roll out the new web client. Assuming they don't find any major issues, we'll hopefully open the new client to Opera users in the near future. I can't give an exact date, but if I hear back, I'll update the post.

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@Scott T. Thank you very much. I'm looking forward to hear anything about the release.

PS: It's a shame btw, how few users are using this great browser...

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On 10/22/2018 at 11:44 AM, Scott T. said:

@tkarika we'll hopefully open the new client to Opera users in the near future.

Great to hear this.

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On 10/8/2018 at 8:52 PM, Scott T. said:

I wanted to give everybody here some information, rather than leave you all in the dark. The new web client does not support Firefox due to the note editor code utilizing WebKit, the rendering code used in most major browsers (Chrome, Safari, Opera,...). Firefox continues to use Gecko. The result is that a lot of the functionality built into our updated editor, which is used by the new web client and all our other clients, does not work well on Firefox. We're testing internally on Firefox, but the user experience is not up-to-par and we would not feel comfortable releasing it to our customers.

I can't provide any specific timeline on when we might have a version that would be compatible with Firefox. Our team that works on the shared editor is evaluating and prioritizing Firefox support, but that's as much as I can confirm.

Thanks for letting us know. If you don't support my browser, I won't support you. I hope you understand. I'm sure us lowly Linux users, who have been waiting for an entire decade for a native desktop client, won't even be a blip in your quarterly income report. Shame though. Been using Evernote since release, despite the lack of a desktop client. I'm sad that you forced me to leave.

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@mkaito Sorry to hear that you want to leave. I hope that maybe you come back to check in on Evernote every once-in-a-while. We might have a solution in the near future to meet your needs.

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Excuse me. What are you talking about? I use Evernote Web on the latest (always) Firefox daily. I don't see any problems apart from duplicate note creation which is a known EvernoteforWeb-specific issue.

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That's really disappointing. I'm not Linux user, but I use FF on Windows work PC. As this is my working PC I don't want to install desktop EN on it (we still have no possibility for selectable sync) that means that I could not use EN at work.

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@Scott T., thanks for your information regarding the (lack of) Firefox new web client and the updates on a Linux Client. I hope that with all the changes that EN have faced in 2018, we Linux users could really have some hope. Regarding Firefox support for the new web client, are there any updates?

 

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@ever_coffee: I can't say too much, but there's definitely hope for Linux users sooner than later. For Firefox, I can't say for sure, but based on my knowledge of changes we're making, it's quite possible we'll get better support for Firefox. Again, can't give any specific timeline. I can only point to Ian's recent blog post with regards to priorities.

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@Scott T., thank you very much for your reply. I've read Ian's post, I totally agree with the priorities.

It's great to know there's hope for Linux and that it is a concern that'll be addressed soon. Let's move on, and long live EN!

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This is probably not recommended (maybe some things break, I haven't really tested it), but as a workaround I'm changing the browser's User Agent to Chrome with an addon (addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/user-agent-string-switcher/, but there are others. I like this one because I can change the User Agent only on specific sites that try to force me to use a different browsers).

This does nothing other than skip the website's compatibility check, so things may break, but after some light testing I've had no issues yet. I'm guessing the website is mostly compatible with Firefox, but the team hasn't had time to test it, so they're reticent to give us the go-ahead.

So yeah, I'll use the website on Firefox anyway. I know it might be risky, but I don't want to use Chrome, and I don't have (nor want) an Apple device, so Safari is out too.

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@Kaylebor: My understanding from the devs was that note display worked pretty well in Firefox, but note editing had some issues. I did just verify the developers will be revisiting support across all browsers with the updated changes they are working on.

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@Scott T.: Thanks for the answer Scott. I'll be careful while using the web version then, and try not to do much editing outside the app if possible.

Nice to hear things are moving forward.

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After many years of being a premium subscriber, waiting for a Linux client whilst using Evernote on Firefox, you have shut the door on me.  I will now look for an alternate solution, my main problem is that I now need a Windows PC to export the data.

Evernote's advantage was the web client made it cross platform, every platform, with this change you have to compete with OneNote on functionality and you will loose. The company is dying, abandon ship.

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I'm sorry to hear that Evernote is now behaving with WebKit as Microsoft with Internet Explorer, that is, it works with us and nothing else.

If you remember this, then most of us were enraged but we are going the same way.

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I've come here too due to the obnoxious message telling me to use Chrome or Safari.

I don't ******* want to use Chrome or Safari. Safari on Windows sucks and Firefox Quantum s a significantly more powerful browser than Chrome.

Why did you design your site to use a specific rendering engine? Why aren't you using Open Standards that work on all modern browsers, of which Firefox is one of them?

Please don't remove the old version of the site, which seems to work fine in Firefox.

Incidentally I didn't get this message using IE11 or Edge both of which don't support Webkit?

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I made an account just to post on this thread. It is absolutely crazy that this is still an issue seven months later. It's "in testing" and "a beta," I get it, but Firefox should have been being tested from day one so as to make it a complete non-issue. And if it wasn't, 30-60 days is usually how long it takes for new browser features to migrate from whoever did it first to all the other browsers. I'm now running an extension to pretend to be Chrome so that I can use a version of Evernote on the web that doesn't suck. I really like the new client, but I'm now running extra software in my browser just to make it accessible. And it seems totally fine, by the way! Maybe a little slower than in Chrome, but still way nicer than the old Web client. If you're that worried about it, just default to old version for Firefox and let us turn it on with a warning.

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With Firefox 66.0.2 (64-bit) on Linux Mint

I get:

"Sorry, we don't support your browser at this moment."

From the quote:

"The new web client does not support Firefox due to the note editor code utilizing WebKit, the rendering code used in most major browsers (Chrome, Safari, Opera,...). Firefox continues to use Gecko. The result is that a lot of the functionality built into our updated editor, which is used by the new web client and all our other clients, does not work well on Firefox."

Sounds like the code editor needs to not be WebKit specific?

I'm not switching from Firefox, so if its support gets dropped, I'll have to regretfully drop Evernote.

The ad for the Mozilla notes taking app got displayed a couple of seconds after I saw that message...

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/notes-by-firefox/

It's getting better.

 

 

 

Screenshot from 2019-05-08 21-03-53.png

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This is really not good enough. Especially from a big influential tech company such as Evernote.

The entire point of the web is to have a platform that works across all browsers that adhere to modern web standards (of which Firefox is one). We're supposed to have moved on from the days of IE6 when websites were only built for one browser.

The capability of the web is there. Support it, and support users on other browsers. I can't imagine what could possibly be important enough that you would restrict browser engine support to Webkit. I hope this changes very soon.

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Would be nice if Firefox would be supported. It is my preferred browser as well.

As workarounds you can install another browser (beside FF I use several more, depending on OS and my task), or use the old version of the web client.

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Yeah come on Evernote.

I appreciate a significant base of browsers are Webkit or Chromium based but even Microsoft have learnt they didn't help move the web forward by forcing IE6 standards on everyone.

Firefox remains a popular browser too. On anything other than Chromebooks, where Firefox for Linux is odd, I always use Firefox. Chrome is decent but Firefox is just sop much better.

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To reiterate what I said before, Firefox and Linux support are both on our product roadmap. I can't make any promises on dates for them, but we are currently actively testing support for these browsers/platforms as part of our current rearchitecture effort. We want to make sure they are production ready. We wouldn't want to finally launch Firefox support with the new client and have it be really buggy.

Also, we need to coordinate the launches with other efforts, such as merging of major code changes into our main line. Lots of moving pieces right now.

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Let me ask again. Am I the only one using Evernote on Firefox since ~2014 without any messages on incompatibility?

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1 hour ago, rimboma said:

Let me ask again. Am I the only one using Evernote on Firefox since ~2014 without any messages on incompatibility?

There are no error messages because Evernote defaults to the (very) old web interface when using Firefox. Open Evernote in Chrome and check out the difference: it's leagues better and we've been stuck waiting on it for 9+ months.

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On 6/25/2019 at 6:26 PM, open0source said:

There are no error messages because Evernote defaults to the (very) old web interface when using Firefox. Open Evernote in Chrome and check out the difference: it's leagues better and we've been stuck waiting on it for 9+ months. 

FUUUUU! :D How did I miss that?! I'm going to install Opera. It's based on Chromium intrails.

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On 10/8/2018 at 9:52 PM, Scott T. said:

I wanted to give everybody here some information, rather than leave you all in the dark. The new web client does not support Firefox due to the note editor code utilizing WebKit, the rendering code used in most major browsers (Chrome, Safari, Opera,...). Firefox continues to use Gecko. The result is that a lot of the functionality built into our updated editor, which is used by the new web client and all our other clients, does not work well on Firefox.

Just noticed it. Few important words of clarification, especially intended for general public not familiar with web technologies:

1. The part about Gecko may make it look like Gecko is some technological cruft that Firefox intends to rely on. Firefox is well in the process of replacing vital parts of under-the-hood components with Servo, a very modern and efficient system, under the Quantum project.

2. It was the Evernote's choice to rely on Google's WebKit, locking non-WebKit browsers (browsers not based on Chrome, essentially).

3. WebKit adoption is part of the "slow boiling the frog" process that hurts internet users in the long run. See the sources.

 

Sources:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/11/microsoft-begs-web-devs-not-to-make-webkit-the-new-ie6/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18617189

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9 hours ago, rimboma said:

FUUUUU! :D How did I miss that?! I'm going to install Opera. It's based on Chromium intrails.

As is Brave.

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On 6/27/2019 at 5:30 AM, rimboma said:

Just noticed it. Few important words of clarification, especially intended for general public not familiar with web technologies:

1. The part about Gecko may make it look like Gecko is some technological cruft that Firefox intends to rely on. Firefox is well in the process of replacing vital parts of under-the-hood components with Servo, a very modern and efficient system, under the Quantum project.

2. It was the Evernote's choice to rely on Google's WebKit, locking non-WebKit browsers (browsers not based on Chrome, essentially).

3. WebKit adoption is part of the "slow boiling the frog" process that hurts internet users in the long run. See the sources.

 

Sources:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/11/microsoft-begs-web-devs-not-to-make-webkit-the-new-ie6/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18617189

I found it irritating that the message seems to imply the problem is with Firefox, rather than Evernote choosing not to use widely adopted standards that already exist for web applications. I guess this just echos your #2 point.

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I've been an Evernote Premium user now for about 3 years, and this is my first post ever in these forums.

I have to say that I'm quite disappointed that Evernote did not use web-standards to construct their new web client, instead picking one line of web-browsers.

I am a Linux user and up until this change, I was using Firefox for Evernote. Now I'm forced to use Chrome. I'd rather not due to privacy reasons.

Also, as a Linux user I'd like a desktop client. I'm not sure why this is taking years to accomplish... especially now that the web-client is based on web-kit, meaning an Electron app should be easy to accomplish.

I'm now wondering if I should switch to Nextcloud. 

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First, I dislike using any Google product as much as anybody here. Google is living of taking other people’s data without asking, and making money from it. Same with Facebook, by the way. Sometimes it is hard to avoid products from these companies (just naming YouTube and WhatsApp), but often it is possible, which is the case with browsers. FF is my preferred solution on the PC, as it is Safari on my Mac and with iOS.

On the other hand, I understand EN that with restricted resources for R&D and QA, they throw their effort behind the solution with the most users first. If you look up market share, Chrom(ium) based browsers make up most of the total usage.

So I am asking that after they offered something to all these users, they should not forget about FF, and get the web client working here as well.

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6 hours ago, Andrew Newton said:

instead picking one line of web-browsers.

Which line of web browser are you saying Evernote picked?

I use both Mac and IOS Safari. 

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Currently EN supports browsers based on Chrome or the chromium engine. Up to my knowledge, Safari is among them. I do not see this as critical, because the known privacy politics from Apple will shield the browser data from being accessed by Google.

It does not shield Apple users from having Google installed as default search engine on their devices. A service for that Google is said to be paying several millions of bucks annually to Apple. Among the first things on a new device for me is to get rid of that setting ...

DuckDuckGo is a good alternative for all that do not want to search with Big-G, and have their search data exploited.

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Just want to reiterate the point that building the new editor on WebKit-exclusive functionality is a VERY BAD IDEA.

Mozilla is pretty much the last bastion against Google's complete dominance of the browser market. You are actively hurting the concept of an open internet by choosing not to adhere to web standards when building you product.

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I think the Firefox switch has finally been thrown! Just logged in today on Firefox 70.0b1 (Developer Edition) as well as 68.0.2 (stable), and it defaulted to the new interface. A little skeptical, I chose the "Switch to previous version of Evernote" option in the menu and sure enough, that old one is what I remember from last time. Thank you, Evernote team!! No issues on Firefox so far and I can ditch Chrome for yet one more site.

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On 10/17/2018 at 7:36 PM, Scott T. said:

@AÓK I just checked on it and a Linux client is on our roadmap in the future. I can't provide any more details beyond that, but it's something we should get as part of other work we're doing. 

We've got some internal developers who are itching for a Linux client too.

On this issue Scott, (I am new to this forum but an Evernote user since birth i think haha), is there a roadmap for improvements that will be made to Evernote that is visible to us users?

Regards

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@Casper001 We've been sharing Behind The Scenes videos of the re-architecture work we're going through now. They give insight into the direction we're going and the type of improvements we want to make. Beyond that, the CEO has a mantra of "under promise, over deliver". We don't want to promise any specific changes or timelines and then disappoint if we miss those. 

With that said, I think our users will be pretty excited for a lot of the changes that are already in the pipeline.

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