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JYeager

EN Going Out of Business?

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Rumor on the street is that I should be looking for an alternative to EN and that they are showing all signs of going under. I have been looking around and not finding a great option. I love the web clipper, image text search and cross platform use. What else does those? I mainly use EN to curate 1000's of recipes. 

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On 9/14/2018 at 6:41 AM, JYeager said:

Rumor on the street

It's a good idea to be cautious; follow up and check the facts.  
There is no evidence to support this rumour.

Some sources will point you to
- There have been personnel changes in Evernote; some at high level.
- Evernote recently completed a branding exercise.
- Evernote offers an introductory discount to new accounts.
None of this is concrete evidence of anything
 

>>I mainly use EN to curate 1000's of recipes. 

Your data continues to be safe;
- Uploaded to the Evernote servers
- Backed up
- Sync'd to your devices for easy access

You're also able to export your data at any time.
 I use the html format for my backups; my notes can be read in any web browser.

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On 9/14/2018 at 2:12 PM, ChrisTinaBruce said:

I hope not but reducing prices dramatically is a major red flag. 

Where have prices been reduced?  Can I renew at the cheaper price?

I think you're referring to Evernote offering a first year introductory offer to students and new accounts.  This is not a major red flag.

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On 9/14/2018 at 2:12 PM, ChrisTinaBruce said:

I hope not but reducing prices dramatically is a major red flag. 

The price drop for premium is NOT a permanent reduction. It’s a promotion that is done EVERY year. It just so happens that it followed quickly after the rebrand and so people are assuming that the company is going under because they rebranded and pricing is different.

In regards to the cheaper premium, it is ONLY available to those with Free or Basic accounts. It’s to get non or lower paying members to try out Premium.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, as it truly is what I believe in regards to the rumors is that the “tipster” is more than likely someone who no longer works at the company. As for the change in personnel, it happens all the time and more often than not we never hear about it.

If you are worried about access to your notes should the worst happen in the future, backup your files. Other note apps can import the ENEX file and most can also import the HTML option as well should you ever need to switch.

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1 hour ago, Sayre Ambrosio said:

.I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, as it truly is what I believe

So, you have no idea and no information then. ‘Beliefs’ are not facts, no matter how many times you repeat them.

To everyone else, Evernote is doing yet another round of funding and that’s not good news as far as Evernote Inc goes, but I wouldn’t worry about losing anything as if things get bad enough another company will buy it - which may be the best thing that’s ever happened.  

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If anything, it's the simultaneous departure of four top executives that looks like a cause for concern. Whether they didn't see any future for themselves at the company, or there's a shakeup because things didn't go according to strategy, I don't know and won't speculate.

However, at it's current price structure, and given the number of deeply entrenched long time paid users who have nowhere else to go,  I'd think the service should be able to survive for a long time. Unless they overspend or have financial obligations they can't meet. Again, I won't speculate since I don't know.

Evernote is easy to get info out of in somewhat usable format, so I wouldn't be super worried either way.

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On 9/14/2018 at 8:47 AM, Ron Bauerle said:

rumours of our demise have been greatly exaggerated

Good to hear the production level workers are still here; now get back to work ?
Is the company name still Evernote?  Just speculating about a company with no CTO, CFO, CPO, HR head; it might be more of a division.

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On 9/14/2018 at 5:47 PM, Ron Bauerle said:

rumours of our demise have been greatly exaggerated

:)

Good to hear from somebody who apparently joined the company  just a few months ago. 

Yes, four executives did leave inside a very short time, which in an establishment of say 100,00 employees would not necessarily make the media. Perhaps they knew there wasn't that much of a Christmas bonus coming, despite 200 million plus eager contributors. Who knows?

The mad thing is that  DottoTech and  Keep Productive boy (sorry, no insult intended) Francesco d'Alessio are doing their best to dig up some alternatives to good old Evernote. 

Evernote's problem is one of inadequate data protection (for professional, business applications hardly an incentive) , and for any other note-taking more of a hindrance. Storage is another thing. 

Got myself one of those Surface machines but guess which app has not made it into the digital pen era yet? Students all over the world are using such devices and yet Evernote, instead of supporting that sort of technology does what? A new elephant, ever so nice and dainty, that little button. Would look quite good on one those pens. Too bad Evernote decided to drop merchandising. 

What has Evernote got up the sleeve to keep the business going? The actual notetaking is more of a SABENA kind of experience. Storage limits with Evernote are  meagre, if not to say, inacceptable. 

I moved short of  20 GB into the cloud today with just thumb files left on my own harddrive. If a file fails to upload properly I am made aware which one it is because the system monitors all the time. 

Costs? Less than Evernote Premium, 5 TB space included, no limit in file numbers, I think 10 GB max per file. Device limits? yes, but I don't have 25 or so devices.

I still use Evernote, but strictly on the principle of first in, first out. 

I feel sorry for those who feel stuck . 

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3 hours ago, JohnLongney said:

The mad thing is that  DottoTech and  Keep Productive boy (sorry, no insult intended) Francesco d'Alessio are doing their best to dig up some alternatives to good old Evernote. 

I recognize DottaTech but not Keep Productive boy
I have no problem with honest thorough reviews; however many of the reviews only focus on the faults of one product vs strengths of the other

>>Evernote's problem is one of inadequate data protection (for professional, business applications hardly an incentive) , and for any other note-taking more of a hindrance.

Encryption?  I'd like to see end-to-end encryption so I don't have to go through hoops to encrypt my sensitive data.

>>The actual notetaking is more of a SABENA kind of experience...app has not made it into the digital pen era yet

I use the Evernote editor for basic notes; I recommend dedicated editors for serious work
- For note taking, I use Notability on my iPad.
There's no limit to the file formats that can be embedded in a note.

>>Storage limits with Evernote are  meagre, if not to say, inacceptable. 

Evernote has no storage limits.  There are monthly upload limits but I find them agequate with my paid account (10GB)

>>I feel sorry for those who feel stuck . 

No one should feel "stuck".  Evernote makes it easy to export data from an account.
We can advise users on the process for this.

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On 9/14/2018 at 11:21 AM, DTLow said:

Some sources will point you to
- There have been personnel changes in Evernote; some at high level.
- Evernote recently completed a branding exercise.
- Evernote offers an introductory discount to new accounts.
None of this is concrete evidence of anything
 

I would also add that there are rumors that Evernote has never been and is still not profitable, and that they are currently seeking new funding at a reduced valuation. Add all of these indicators up and it's understandable that some people are a bit concerned, but I wouldn't say that it's time to panic or make any rash decisions.

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14 minutes ago, Paul A. said:

I would also add that there are rumors that Evernote has never been and is still not profitable

The last official report was; Evernote is profitable, and is no longer relying on investor funding.
In the past, Evernote relied on investor funding for initial development and ongoing costs.

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6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

The last official report was Evernote is profitable, and is no longer relying on investor funding.
In the past, Evernote relied on investor funding

Yes, that was about 18 months ago, but there are indications that plans have changed, which Evernote themselves said could happen:

https://venturebeat.com/2017/02/13/never-say-never-evernote-says-it-has-no-plans-to-take-on-more-vc-money/

Another big tell that things are not going according to plan is that not only has Evernote still not gone public, but they have not even announced a timeline for going public. An IPO is, of course, the ultimate goal for investors which started investing in Evernote over ten years ago.

Anyway, I am hopeful that they are still investing in the product and that they will make good on the teasers back in February and March regarding adding more "voice" capabilities in 2018. Still a few months left to make good on that promise...

Speaking of promises, has Evernote made good on any of the CEO's predictions for 2018? Serious question, I don't follow Evernote developments on platforms that I don't use...

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On 9/14/2018 at 9:41 AM, JYeager said:

Rumor on the street is that I should be looking for an alternative to EN and that they are showing all signs of going under.

 

23 minutes ago, Paul A. said:

I would also add that there are rumors that Evernote has never been and is still not profitable, and that they are currently seeking new funding at a reduced valuation

.Rumors, shmumors. If you have sources, post links. Well, unless you're a Silicon Valley insider,, in which case post audio recordings, secret memos, etc.

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2 hours ago, Paul A. said:

but there are indications that plans have changed

Can you point to creditable sources for this?
You're right; I was relying on the quote from the CEO, and it's old news.

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On 9/14/2018 at 11:23 PM, User63 said:

Evernote is doing yet another round of funding and that’s not good news as far as Evernote Inc goes

I've seen no official report on funding, and why do you think this is bad news?
Evernote was created using investor funding.

>>I wouldn’t worry about losing anything 

There's no concern about losing data.  Evernote makes it easy to export our data.  I run weekly full backups using this feature.

 

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On 9/14/2018 at 9:41 AM, JYeager said:

that they are showing all signs of going under.

There have been rumors before and I am sure there will be more years to come. I just saw an article that was published in 2015 that was talking about Evernote's "death". 

image.png.0b2a7f21a9f12673826a6ce0e036c685.png

Like anything else on the internet, we may never know the motives of an article or a speculations. Just do your research about the facts and drive your conclusion. Like others say, be prepared with an exit strategy but don't rely on the rumors to make a move. Currently, Evernote is fully operational and functioning, I will continue to use it. I would recommend the same, use the export feature and do backups.

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18 hours ago, DTLow said:

>>I feel sorry for those who feel stuck . 

No one should feel "stuck".  Evernote makes it easy to export data from an account.

I don't feel stuck but we should acknowledge that it is difficult to change systems.  EN does make it easy to export data but the harder part is then moving this data over to another system and getting organization set back up.  I don't use many tags or notebooks so I would have an easier time than many but I do have a large database and I do see reports that importing into other systems can be problematic.  I also moderately use EN's encryption so I would have to back this out and do something else before the data is migrated.  I'm sure there are other gotchas depending on your specific database and what program you are trying to migrate into.

I'm not locked in but am entrenched.  I keep thinking I should reorganize so that a move in the future would be easier but I'm lazy and rolling the dice that a future move may not be needed.

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On 9/17/2018 at 1:04 PM, s2sailor said:

we should acknowledge that it is difficult to change systems   ...  importing into other systems can be problematic.

I can't speak to other systems; my exit will  be an html export on my Mac.   In fact, I  run  it weekly as part of my backups
I've had this exit strategy since I started using Evernote.

>>I also moderately use EN's encryption so I would have to back this out and do something else before the data is migrated. 

Good point; using the Evernote encryption feature is locking your data into Evernote.
I  prefer  the native encryption in attachments; PDFs, office/iwork  documents.
These  are functional inside or outside of Evernote.

 

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They have to make an improvement to the inking system on all platforms, that would be a great start.   I just hope that we hear an update or blog posts from the leaders soon.   But even with this news, I'm still sticking with Evernote.  This entire year there has been NOT ONE big update to the Windows client.   It is laggy and freezes for a short time.   But I still feel that Evernote is the best note taking app out there.  Onenote just annoys me and there are unnecessary steps to complete certain tasks.   Syncing can be a mess if you change notebooks in Onenote.   And Evernote obviously has the best integration with platforms and other apps.   I think people who are migrating from Evernote to Onenote will seriously regret it.    

 

Evernote just needs more polish.  Anyway I think we deserve to hear something from leadership about the future of Evernote in the next couple of months.   In my opinion, 2019 has to be a year of big improvements and new features.         

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On 9/14/2018 at 11:23 PM, User63 said:

So, you have no idea and no information then. ‘Beliefs’ are not facts, no matter how many times you repeat them.

To everyone else, Evernote is doing yet another round of funding and that’s not good news as far as Evernote Inc goes, but I wouldn’t worry about losing anything as if things get bad enough another company will buy it - which may be the best thing that’s ever happened.  

I originally stated it's what I believed. Never claimed to know the official facts. Definitely never stated that since I repeated it more than once, a belief had turned into a fact. It's just an opinion. EN isn't the first company to have a "tipster" vent to the press and cause alarm, and they won't be the last.

As for "everyone else", everyone is going to have their own opinion and beliefs (not facts) of what is going on. I have talked to people locally who are concerned and ones who aren't. What I do know as fact (and is also available as public information) is that it is possible to get your information out of Evernote in HTML, PDF, and ENEX formats. There are apps out there that will import it (some do an okay job of this and some do a wonderful job of this). I personally choose to support Evernote in multiple ways and will until it shudders its doors, should that happen. If they get bought out, I won't jump ship until I give the situation a chance. If they disappeared tomorrow, I would be extremely upset since it's become a large part of my workflows and how I navigate my days and information. However, as I mentioned in the original post that you pulled the quote from, I backup frequently and know that my information is safe in multiple places and available for import into another program if I need to do so.

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On 9/14/2018 at 9:17 PM, Ron Bauerle said:

rumours of our demise have been greatly exaggerated

:)

If that is the case, I humbly request EN company to publish a public notice in this regard. It would clear the air. If the company has already done, accept my apologies and provide me the link. 

Thanks in advance.

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22 hours ago, DTLow said:

Can you point to creditable sources for this?
You're right; I was relying on the quote from the CEO, and it's old news.

 

22 hours ago, jefito said:

 

.Rumors, shmumors. If you have sources, post links. Well, unless you're a Silicon Valley insider,, in which case post audio recordings, secret memos, etc.

There are a lot of articles and some tweets from silicon valley folks, but it seems everyone is using a TechCrunch article from two weeks ago as the primary source.

What's interesting to me (as someone who keeps abreast of silicon valley news and has an idea how this usually works) is that typically, news creates news. That is, once that TC article came out, everyone with Evernote and private equity contacts would be trying to sniff out additional details of the story, contacting the executives who have departed to try and get their perspective, and so on. Two weeks since that article, nothing else has been published. I'm guessing there are stories that are in-progress and yet to be published, but I would have expected independent confirmation by now.

However, I still think there's a good chance the story is true (or mostly true), as if it were not true Evernote could have publicly refuted it, or if they didn't want to do so publicly (because publicly refuting a negative story can attract negative attention), they could have planted a story with another publication which corrected the situation. That they haven't done so means that the Evernote press relations / marketing dept. is either asleep at the wheel or that there is a fire smoldering behind the smoke.

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57 minutes ago, Paul A. said:

However, I still think there's a good chance the story is true (or mostly true), as if it were not true Evernote could have publicly refuted it,

Evernote did confirm there are personnel changes, some at high levels; it's not clear on the significance of this news

Evernote did not coment on the fund raising report; again its not clear on the significance of this news.  Evernote was built on investor funding.

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2 hours ago, Paul A. said:

 

There are a lot of articles and some tweets from silicon valley folks, but it seems everyone is using a TechCrunch article from two weeks ago as the primary source.

What's interesting to me (as someone who keeps abreast of silicon valley news and has an idea how this usually works) is that typically, news creates news. That is, once that TC article came out, everyone with Evernote and private equity contacts would be trying to sniff out additional details of the story, contacting the executives who have departed to try and get their perspective, and so on. Two weeks since that article, nothing else has been published. I'm guessing there are stories that are in-progress and yet to be published, but I would have expected independent confirmation by now.

However, I still think there's a good chance the story is true (or mostly true), as if it were not true Evernote could have publicly refuted it, or if they didn't want to do so publicly (because publicly refuting a negative story can attract negative attention), they could have planted a story with another publication which corrected the situation. That they haven't done so means that the Evernote press relations / marketing dept. is either asleep at the wheel or that there is a fire smoldering behind the smoke.

So, to sum up: lots of articles and tweets, all derived from one article reporting executives' departures confirmed by the company; no further news; a guess that stories are in progress; ideas about what people "would be" doing or what one "would have expected," including that if "it" (what exactly now?) weren't true Evernote could have refuted it, or planted a corrective story. IOW, there must be something because no one has said there isn't nothing. Neither fact nor logic, just guessing about puffery. And therefore Evernote must be about to expire. Sheeeeesh.

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5 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

So, to sum up: lots of articles and tweets, all derived from one article reporting executives' departures confirmed by the company; no further news; a guess that stories are in progress; ideas about what people "would be" doing or what one "would have expected," including that if "it" (what exactly now?) weren't true Evernote could have refuted it, or planted a corrective story. IOW, there must be something because no one has said there isn't nothing. Neither fact nor logic, just guessing about puffery. And therefore Evernote must be about to expire. Sheeeeesh.

Never claimed they were about to expire. My only claim is that there is evidence they are struggling, and that it's worth keeping an eye on. In fact, the next major article just dropped today, with news of a 15% layoff. The CEO does claim in an internal email that they are "financially stable" and have grown this year, so that is comforting news.

 

7 hours ago, DTLow said:

Evernote did confirm there are personnel changes, some at high levels; it's not clear on the significance of this news

Evernote did not coment on the fund raising report; again its not clear on the significance of this news.  Evernote was built on investor funding.

More news dropped today:

https://techcrunch.com/2018/09/18/evernote-just-slashed-54-jobs-or-15-percent-of-its-workforce/

 

Public blog post going up tonight or tomorrow with the public spin on this news.

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2 hours ago, Paul A. said:

Public blog post going up tonight or tomorrow with the public spin on this news.

Here it is:  https://evernote.com/blog/2018-09-18-message-from-ceo/

Any scaling business is going to expand into functions that later prove to be inefficient or unnecessary as well as hire people that are unproductive. Trimming inefficiencies and poor performers is necessary for any organization in a competitive environment - only governments and monopolies can afford not to take these actions periodically.

"We will continue to invest in our product, design and engineering teams. Long-requested new features like templates and tasks will ship very soon, and we are accelerating investment in our technical infrastructure to enable us to ship more of what you want, faster."

By "tasks", if he means integrating task mgmt into EN, I'll be very excited. A number of the users on this forum, myself included, and who knows how many EN users overall, use EN for task management in addition to its use as an information archive. I used to use a dedicated task mgr, but it always seemed inefficient to use a task mgr that is separate from the app where the info resides. Hacking EN to use as a task mgr requires additional overhead and complexity that a lot of people won't bother with (but worth it to some of us). If they integrate task mgmt into EN, that would be awesome!

Far from being concerned, like the 1-post user who started this thread, I'm excited. 

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From O'Neil's blog post I want to focus on this:

"And what matters most to us is what you, our customers, need."

 

Dear... Everybody,

 

This month I decided to renew my premium and I am ok with it. I feel like I owe this to EN. But personally I do not feel the company is focusing on what matters to me, the customer. 

Spaces, the first biggest addition to EN is business only.

Many multiple unstable releases in many platforms (although I have to admit EN on Android works way faster than iOS).

No encryption. How is this possible in 2018 and 3 years after the new CEO tool over?

It still feels a raw unpolished product.

But what about you guys? Do you feel they listen to you? Are you happy from the progress so far? Because if that's their main goal, something is off.

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4 hours ago, Giallou said:

But what about you guys? ...Are you happy from the progress so far?

I pay Evernote to service my data; sync to all  my devices, search feature, ...
I'm happy with the progress so far.

Evernote provides a free editor for use in creating/editing/accessing notes.
I use the editor for basic notes; it's definitely not a tool or format I use for serious work.
I'm happy with the  progress so far; and happy that Evernote allows me to  use my choice of editors and formats.

I use Evernote on a Mac and iPad; the apps have a scripting layer allowing me to automate processes.
I'm happy with the progress so far.

>>No encryption.
I have to use my own encryption processes to protect my sensitive data.
I'm not happy with progress so far.

>>Do you feel they listen to you?

I'm not clear on Evernote "listening to me". 
I  post feature requests and bug reports, but have no expectations.  I'm not party to the priorities for  Evernote's development work.

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If 15 % of the total workforce are thought to be of no use (getting the sack right now) then, according to my own experience, the remaining staff, respectively the Indians amongst them (Chiefs can be discounted) will be loaded with extra work. 

No one can tell me that the tasks ahead of Evernote can be done with fewer numbers. Are the 54 job cuts necessary to finish the year "without burning cash"?

In other words, would Evernote have ended the year in the red if staff had been kept? Depending on who is laid off, 15 % payroll + overheads, can be a significant amount. 

Not so long ago I remember an article in which the CEO emphasised that they were recruiting.

So, is Evernote on the point of a merger or a joint venture? 

Would that be one way of keeping business going without having to raise cash, would also warrant the Elephant's  "exquisite" redesign, etc. plus the resignation of 4 or 5? executives prior to the latest news (maybe with golden handshake)?

(Nobody needs to tell me how Evernote processes and stores data, even as a basic user I got the idea. I would like to stress to me the EN webclipper is state-of-the-art -Chrome primary browser, Firefox secondary, Edge just a compulsory app with Win 10). 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, noteaddict48 said:

If 15 % of the total workforce are thought to be of no use (getting the sack right now) then, according to my own experience, the remaining staff, respectively the Indians amongst them (Chiefs can be discounted) will be loaded with extra work. 

No one can tell me that the tasks ahead of Evernote can be done with fewer numbers. Are the 54 job cuts necessary to finish the year "without burning cash"?

In other words, would Evernote have ended the year in the red if staff had been kept? Depending on who is laid off, 15 % payroll + overheads, can be a significant amount. 

Not so long ago I remember an article in which the CEO emphasised that they were recruiting.

So, is Evernote on the point of a merger or a joint venture? 

Would that be one way of keeping business going without having to raise cash, would also warrant the Elephant's  "exquisite" redesign, etc. plus the resignation of 4 or 5? executives prior to the latest news (maybe with golden handshake)?

(Nobody needs to tell me how Evernote processes and stores data, even as a basic user I got the idea. I would like to stress to me the EN webclipper is state-of-the-art -Chrome primary browser, Firefox secondary, Edge just a compulsory app with Win 10). 

 

 

 

It has often been said that the best solution to Evernote’s financial woes would be to get bought by Google, who are still missing a decent user data management app. MS has OneNote, Apple has Notes (not half bad but only make sense if you are using Apple across the board), Google has Keep... which just doesn’t cut it.

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11 hours ago, tavor said:

By "tasks", if he means integrating task mgmt into EN, I'll be very excited.

I think a lot of users will be excited too. My concern will be that I hope they are not introducing something new while ignoring the fundamental issues many users have been experiencing such as disappearing notes and images or the editor problems.

Therefore, I would first want a solid foundation where all the core functions operating as they should, then tackle on the new additions such as task management. if they are addressing them all and adding the task management, then it is absolutely quadruple exciting! :) 

I hope that they are not just adding more features just to attract new customers or just for the sake of adding new features while ignoring the foundation of the product.

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5 hours ago, noteaddict48 said:

If 15 % of the total workforce are thought to be of no use (getting the sack right now)

No one said that any person is "thought to be of no use"

My take is Evernote will be cancelling or recheduling various projects.  These projects will no longer require staffing

>>No one can tell me that the tasks ahead of Evernote can be done with fewer numbers.

I'm not party to the "tasks ahead"
I think minimal staff are required for day-to-day processing of our data.

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Now if they introduce actual built-in task management I will be so excited. BUT it has to be on all platforms!  They better not dare introduced some awesome task management feature that's only available on Windows. I use my mobile device more than my computer and a lot of companies out there still don't get this.  

Since Evernote switched to Google for their cloud services, I have seen improvements with syncing and speed.  Tables introduction in Windows app was a good update, but I would still like to see that in the Android app.

My big areas of disappointment are:

Web clipping is unpredictable and there is no built-in screenshot option. Really no changes for quite some time for inking.  And the Windows app has too much lag and freezes every now and then.   Also more formatting options in the Android app. 

I still feel that Evernote is the best note taking app out there.  One note and all the other note taking apps have not given me really any good reason to switch.   

 

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26 minutes ago, Ricky said:

there is no built-in screenshot option

Just WRT this: in the Windows program (at least the version I'm using), Win key + PrintScreen brings up screenshot cross-hairs, with which you can select a screen area that is then copied into a note as an image.

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2 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Just WRT this: in the Windows program (at least the version I'm using), Win key + PrintScreen brings up screenshot cross-hairs, with which you can select a screen area that is then copied into a note as an image.

Sorry I was referring to the Android app. It's really very minor anyway but it would be nice to have screenshot feature built into the app in case the web clipping produces poor results.

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7 hours ago, DTLow said:

No one said that any person is "thought to be of no use"

My take is Evernote will be cancelling or recheduling various projects.  These projects will no longer require staffing

>>No one can tell me that the tasks ahead of Evernote can be done with fewer numbers.

I'm not party to the "tasks ahead"
I think minimal staff are required for day-to-day processing of our data.

Well going by your probably much better insight into Evernote's projects, cancellation or rescheduling can only mean that money became tight. 

According to the CEO we can expect focusing on us, the customers. Going by what customers want in the way of bug-free releases and improvements I would expect plenty of tasks ahead for some time. 

I gathered from reading in the forum that customer support issues were not always dealt with in a satisfactory and timely manner.  I have no idea what day-to-day processing means as far as Evernote is concerned. However I should imagine that with so many subscribers finance&accounting plus customer support plus IT certainly require a reasonable number of personnel. 

Most of us have some idea in what way vastly bug-free releases can be produced. Perhaps Evernote will surprise us all. 

Stability and an improved editor and I will go Premium. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Ricky said:

Now if they introduce actual built-in task management I will be so excited.

A completely different topic; you should start a new discussion on Task Management: using the current set of features and new features required.

I successfully use Evernote to manage my tasks and would be interested in hearing from other users.

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17 hours ago, TK0047 said:

Therefore, I would first want a solid foundation where all the core functions operating ashope that they are not just adding more features just to attract new customers or just for the sake of adding new features while ignoring the foundation of the product.

I really don’t see that in the cards at all.  Surely it can’t be much more than keeping the lights on currently.

I’ve been using Evernote for a decade now.  About the same time I’ve been IT at a software development company.

We’re half the company size, but also with customer hosting around the world.  We’ve built massively huge complex software that runs some of the worlds largest utility companies.  I’ve never understood why it takes Evernote so many people to turn out so few lines of code.

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On 9/18/2018 at 10:38 AM, Paul A. said:

There are a lot of articles and some tweets from silicon valley folks, but it seems everyone is using a TechCrunch article from two weeks ago as the primary source.

Just to cycle back -- I've been quite busy at my work -- I'll give you props for this being more than I intuited. 

I've been through the layoff/spiral thing before, once where it wasn't fatal, the other where it eventually was. So hard to tell, really. It's be a shame if Evernote went under; despite all the glitches etc. (I've seen a lot of them, I'm a 10 year user) I've never seen another piece of software that matches my workflow -- such as it is -- as well, at least for what it does for me.

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13 hours ago, cwb said:

  I’ve never understood why it takes Evernote so many people to turn out so few lines of code.

That's exactly the reason that I'm optimistic about this restructuring and slimming down of the company: there was still far too much overhead from the golden years with unlimited resources;  I'm glad that they finally realize that they should spend their resources to development of the actual product. They really need more engineers and less managers, they made the right decision.

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7 minutes ago, Evernote_Returnee said:

In addition to the built-in export

My solution is simply the export; running weekly in a full html export as part of my backups.
I have a fully functional set of notes on my Mac.

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I agree there are challenges and many unanswered questions at this time, yet I continue to be optimistic about the future of Evernote despite the recent news. Today, I choose to focus on the final words of the CEO’s post this week:

There is a lot to come from Evernote in the next couple of months and even more in 2019. And I’m grateful for your support along the way. - Chris O’Neill

 

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Interesting discussion, facts are that only a very small amount of people will have a really good idea of what is happening now and even they won't know what is coming.

I heard an interview with Chris O'Neill recently where he quoted they spend 60% of revenue on R&D. I guess this isn't unusual in a growing software as a service company trying to hit that critical mass number to guarantee long term success. 

Seems to me though, that with well over 200 million users and being profitable even with R&D spend that high, that should things get rocky Evernote could easily reduce that spend and focus on maintaining the product with a slower feature development cycle and maintain a nice bottom line. 

It might not get them to 1 billion users, but a strong 300 million user product should be able to do quite well one would think. The product is pretty darn good now!

I hope they don't pursue a boom or bust strategy and end up imploding. Either way I wouldn't think they are going anywhere soon.

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On 9/23/2018 at 9:27 PM, Michael Goulding said:

I heard an interview with Chris O'Neill recently where he quoted they spend 60% of revenue on R&D. I guess this isn't unusual in a growing software as a service company trying to hit that critical mass number to guarantee long term success. 

It is HIGHLY unusual for a company 10 years old like Evernote. If I was a prospective investor looking at a 10 year old company's Income Statement and saw that they were spending 60% of Revenue on R&D and still barely making any profit then I'd consider the business terminal. If Chris O'Neill said that then it is even more evidence that he should not be a CEO. He already failed at Google Glass and is pretty clearly failing now. The most damning evidence of that is not financial though ... it is the overwhelming proportion of long term one eyed customers on these forums who have finally started to open their other eye to the reality of Evernote's ignorance, arrogance and incompetence. It's highly amusing watching these Evernote stalwarts trying to remain positive when there is so little to be positive about. I must admit though, if I'd sunk my life into living in the Evernote forums I'd be suffering a little confirmation bias also.

I have been a Premium Evernote customer since the early days and absolutely loathe the habitual spin that pervades all levels of it's management. It's cultural. Case in point is the latest Brand Fresh - take a look at Chris O'Neill's tweets pumping up a big announcement and then the palatable let down in the replies when everyone realised they had essentially changed the icon colors and curvature of Mad's trunk.

I have given up hoping Evernote will get it's act together. I WANT THE BUSINESS TO FAIL but only sufficiently that a great company like Atlassian buys it so that all of us long term customers, and the many good employees still at Evernote, finally get what we have patiently waited for and deserve - A well run company that lets it's products do the talking.

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2 hours ago, Stuart G said:

and is pretty clearly failing now.

How is that clear?   Evernote is a company with a positive cash flow and over 200 million user accounts.

Or are you just posting more FUD

Its completely your choice to use the service or not.
I don't understand why you chose to use Evernote, then post boohoo posts.
If it's not working for you, don't use it.

And before you respond about my eyes (one eyed), I am an Evernote fan.
I consider it smart to not use services unless I'm a fan.

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13 minutes ago, Stuart G said:

I have been a Premium Evernote customer since the early days and absolutely loathe the habitual spin that pervades all levels of it's management. It's cultural. Case in point is the latest Brand Fresh - take a look at Chris O'Neill's tweets pumping up a big announcement and then the palatable let down in the replies when everyone realised they had essentially changed the icon colors and curvature of Mad's trunk.

Agreed. This seemed like a total waste of time, effort and expense. I don't know that any of the regular users of this forum were impressed. In fact, I'd guess most were let down, as most of the regular posters have a list of improvements they'd like to see in the product, and I'd venture to say that not a single person had "change the icon color" or "change the elephant trunk's curvature" in their top 10 or even top 100 list of desired changes.

Similarly for emojis, this has been met with much scorn and derision by longtime forum members. In the Windows subforum, the emojis are now a running joke.

 So I guess I'm not sure why you think the longtime forum users are blind to the missteps and diversions at Evernote.

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@DTLow

Try and understand the implications of the 15 % staff redundancy right now. If projects had to be postponed or simply given up then some high-ranking manager(s) had failed miserably. Because one needs to have a substantial amount of spare money in the piggy bank to balance out that sort of cash gone down the drain.

One of those totally useless, money-wasting projects, was the logo redesign. Looking at the quick launch bar  right now I cannot but say that the new Evernote icon is a graphic designer's disaster. 

You keep repeating cash flow and the number of user accounts. Net cash proceeds in excess of running costs including investments plus accruals as allowed by the Tax Office make a financially sound company. The number of payers count and their revenue.  

The next 12 - 15 months will decide on Evernote's financial viability because an awful lot of users are now tired of not seeing genuine advancements. 

Evernote may satisfy your personal workflow, but please do not expect other users to have the same degree of satisfaction .

Just on example: on Android I had to upscale to 150 % view to be able to read. Trouble was however that 2/3 of the notes took an age to open. Deinstalled.

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12 hours ago, JohnLongney said:

Try and understand the implications of the 15 % staff redundancy right now

I've heard there's a staff reduction in progress.  
No, I don't understand the implications; I'm not party to the development priorities at Evernote.
At my level, I'm just a user of the product/service.
Just guessing, there will be project cancellations/rescheduling.

>>Evernote may satisfy your personal workflow, ...

Yes, it does.  If not, I would be using a different product/service.

>>Net cash proceeds in excess of running costs including investments plus accruals as allowed by the Tax Office make a financially sound company.

Thanks for clearing that up.  I don't have inside information, just the cash flow statement.

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@DTLow, thanks for your reply. Please allow me to hit the ball back over the net to you on some of those serves. :)

6 hours ago, DTLow said:

How is that clear?   Evernote is a company with a positive cash flow and over 200 million user accounts.

How much information do you need? All the direct reports of the CEO have been booted out, 15% of the workforce is being laid off, they are indicating more capital raising (when the last capital raising was meant to be the last) and it's said to be down round (ie. the business is valued less than the last capital raising) and most of all, there is an undeniably large and increasing volume of negativity here, in the tech media, social media, YouTube etc reflecting the current user base's disappointment ... and if you can't keep the current users happy how on earth do you expect to make new users stick let alone pay.

Also, I don't for one moment think the figures of 200+ million users mean anything. Active paying users are all that matters in terms of financial viability. One only need do a little math on their current paid subscription rates to realise that not many are paying and/or the business is seriously mismanaged. I suspect it is both.

6 hours ago, DTLow said:

I don't understand why you chose to use Evernote, then post boohoo posts.
 If it's not working for you, don't use it.

So you never give feedback or complain when a service you are paying for does not work for you? You just quietly tolerate it or quietly leave. OK. Good for you. It's a free world. I'm pretty certain Evernote are thankful their unhappy customers don't just leave or the business would be dead overnight. Personally, I think it more helpful to be honest and hope that the management, on balance, listens and takes action. After many years without improvement (to see how farcical the situation has become refer my post at 

Anyway, as I said, my personal preference is that Evernote gets acquired. I think Atlassian would be great suitor, and if that happens Chris O'Neill would be shown the door in a flash (he should have left now anyway given that he hired and managed all the high level execs that left recently) and I am pretty certain we would see the spin disappear, the product development ramp up, a real testing methodology introduced and most of all, the crappy code cleaned up that underlies the constant stream of inexcusable bugs ... and I wouldn't have to migrate to and learn a new system. Perfect.

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13 minutes ago, Stuart G said:

So you never give feedback

I give feedback all the time.  
- I participate in the beta testing program, submit bug reports, ....
- I post feature requests and upvote requests that I consider to be of benefit.

>>Personally, I think it more helpful to be honest

It's like the kids in the back seat on a long trip; Are we there yet, Are we there yet, Are we there yet
They're not being helpful

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2 hours ago, DTLow said:

It's like the kids in the back seat on a long trip; Are we there yet, Are we there yet, Are we there yet
They're not being helpful

I honestly cannot understand what you are saying or how you can conclude that based on what I have said in this post, or other posts for that matter. What is clear is that you have conveniently ignored the points I have made. 

Anyway, good on you for doing all that free work for Evernote. I am glad you have the time. They would be really screwed if they couldn't get such free labour. I personally expect to get a product of a decent level of quality when I am paying for it, and if I am spending all my time working for a company then I prefer to be on the payroll. I certainly know I am worth more than $0/hr.

Thanks for the contribution. It was fun. 

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8 hours ago, tavor said:

 So I guess I'm not sure why you think the longtime forum users are blind to the missteps and diversions at Evernote.

I think they are less so now but my general experience in these forums is that they are overpowered by one eyed Evernote zealots who can see no wrong in anything Evernote does. Normal users get drowned out with an overwhelming bias from them that destroys any ability to have a factual and meritorious discussion. Some just plain lie, some are just plain wrong, and many quickly revert to playing the man and not the ball (plenty of evidence in this thread alone), seemingly because they take personal offence at the suggestion that some people don't see "their Evernote baby" as being as beautiful as they see it. Not all the "Gurus" fall into this category but many do. Unfortunately too many of them act like the number of posts they make is an indication of their knowledge and importance.

While not the cause of the current issues at Evernote, I don't think the bias of these zealots is really helping the company. It dissuades normal users from contributing and prevents a more representative picture of the real customer issues/satisfaction from surfacing. 

Anyway, there is a noticeable change of late where I think we are seeing a more honest dialog that it's not all beer and skittles with Evernote, the company and the product. That's a good thing but I think it's too late for the company. Hopefully not the product. As I said, I'd prefer to see the company acquired, the current management just ripped straight out and replaced and the product live on where it is part of larger ecosphere. If you know a little about Atlassian you'd see how it's almost made to order.

Thanks for your reply @tavor. 

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9 hours ago, Stuart G said:

It is HIGHLY unusual for a company 10 years old like Evernote. If I was a prospective investor looking at a 10 year old company's Income Statement and saw that they were spending 60% of Revenue on R&D and still barely making any profit then I'd consider the business terminal.

Ever heard of Tesla? 15 years old and still not profitable...

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1 minute ago, eric99 said:

Ever heard of Tesla? 15 years old and still not profitable...

I couldn't agree more @eric99. Profitability alone is no measure of success. Many companies are not profitable for many years while they scale up. Amazon is another classic example. However, if you re-read my comment you will see that I have said that there would be a real issue if a 10 year old company was still "spending 60% of Revenue on R&D and still barely making any profit".

Telsa's FY2017 income statement states Revenue of $11.7B and R&D costs of $1.4B. In other words, they spend 12% of their Revenue on R&D. That's a long way from 60%.

If a company is spending 60% of their Revenue on R&D 10 years into their business then they are still trying to figure out what their business actually is ... and that's going to be a real downer for most investors (unless they like gambling).

If you can find a 10 year old successful company that is still spending 60% on R&D I'd love to hear about it.

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8 hours ago, Stuart G said:

I personally expect to get a product of a decent level of quality when I am paying for it

Users do not pay for the Evernote editor app.  Users do not pay for the  upgrades.
Evernote provides the software at no charge.

I use the editor for basic notes, and use external dedicated editors when I need quality such as word processing.

>>So you never give feedback .....They would be really screwed if they couldn't get such free labour.

A put down by accusing me of not providing feedback; then a put down down because I provide  feedback.

>>I certainly know I am worth more than $0/hr.

For the quality and tone of your posts, it seems to be an approriate value.

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If anyone would like to hear the words of Chris O'Neill directly, the podcast interview I referenced was on "The Productivityist" published 8th August. The business talk starts at around the 29 minute mark with discussion about development of AI, task management etc. I find it interesting he mentions that number one priority is product reliability and acknowledges 'they aren't there yet'. At 36 minutes he talks about spend "over half, close to 60% or 70% on R&D'.

Here's a link from PocketCasts: https://pca.st/1cWW

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

Users do not pay for the Evernote editor app.  Users do not pay for the  upgrades.
Evernote provides the software at no charge.

???? Funny thing is Evernote have been deducting my credit card for years and you are telling me that it is free. Let me check .. https://evernote.com/compare-plans.  Nope, it certainly looks like they are still charging their customers. I'm not sure how they would have a business if they didn't.

Seriously, @DTLow why write something like this that you know is just plain incorrect and won't fool anyone. I am genuinely curious.

1 hour ago, DTLow said:

>>I certainly know I am worth more than $0/hr.

For the quality and tone of your posts, it seems to be an approriate value.

Lol. Really, that's your best!?  ... I'll take that as an admission that you are out of any constructive contribution. TIP: Focus on the ball. You never win in life playing the man. 

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2 hours ago, Stuart G said:

???? Funny thing is Evernote have been deducting my credit card for years and you are telling me that it is free. Let me check .. https://evernote.com/compare-plans.  Nope, it certainly looks like they are still charging their customers. I'm not sure how they would have a business if they didn't.

 Seriously, @DTLow why write something like this that you know is just plain incorrect and won't fool anyone. I am genuinely curious.

I also have a paid account with Evernote.  

Regardless, the editor software continues to be FREE for all users.

>>constructive contribution

I will continue to contribute the facts; I'm not into the FUD, Boohoo stuff.

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1 hour ago, Michael Goulding said:

If anyone would like to hear the words of Chris O'Neill directly, the podcast interview I referenced was on "The Productivityist" published 8th August. The business talk starts at around the 29 minute mark with discussion about development of AI, task management etc. I find it interesting he mentions that number one priority is product reliability and acknowledges 'they aren't there yet'. At 36 minutes he talks about spend "over half, close to 60% or 70% on R&D'.

Here's a link from PocketCasts: https://pca.st/1cWW

Thanks very much for providing the link. To clarify, Chris O'Neill refers to R&D spending being 60 - 70% of the "budget" not "revenue". They are not the same thing. In fact, the term "budget" is pretty nebulous and could be defined in any manner self serving since it is not an accounting term like revenue, which has a clear accounting definition. For all we know, Chris may have meant they are spending "60 -70% of their software budget on R&D" or"60 - 70% of their operating costs on R&D"  or "60 - 70% of their beer budget on R&D" etc. It sounds like a large figure but it really doesn't mean anything.

I am so glad he didn't really say he was spending 60-70% of their revenue on R&D. That would have been really bad.

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1 hour ago, Stuart G said:

Thanks very much for providing the link. To clarify, Chris O'Neill refers to R&D spending being 60 - 70% of the "budget" not "revenue". They are not the same thing. In fact, the term "budget" is pretty nebulous and could be defined in any manner self serving since it is not an accounting term like revenue, which has a clear accounting definition. For all we know, Chris may have meant they are spending "60 -70% of their software budget on R&D" or"60 - 70% of their operating costs on R&D"  or "60 - 70% of their beer budget on R&D" etc. It sounds like a large figure but it really doesn't mean anything.

I am so glad he didn't really say he was spending 60-70% of their revenue on R&D. That would have been really bad.

60% in R&D is not too much to fix all the bugs in the Windows client, to FINALLY bring handwriting on Windows touch devices, a dark theme and notebook encryption ?

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2 hours ago, Stuart G said:

Funny thing is Evernote have been deducting my credit card for years and you are telling me that it is free. Let me check .. https://evernote.com/compare-plans.  Nope, it certainly looks like they are still charging their customers. I'm not sure how they would have a business if they didn't.

Ok, come on now. Evernote still has a free version available at the link you mentioned; this is an easily verifiable fact. It's been around for as long as I've used Evernote (10+ years), and yes, it's constrained in some respects, but it's still useful, and again, it is free, as in free beer. 

Now feel free to get back to debating Evernote's imminent -- or not -- demise, pins dancing on the heads of angels, how much Chris O'Neill spends on socks, and other very important matters above my pay grade, knowledge domain and level of interest...

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6 hours ago, DTLow said:

Users do not pay for the Evernote editor app. 

You make this distinction often, but Evernote the product consists of the app and their service.  Yes,  there is a free version, and one could say we are paying for the enhanced service benefits but we do get both, it is a package deal.  Those of us that pay "are" paying for the app development, the free users certainly are not.  To try and separate out the editor from the service is a little disingenuous, and whether intended or not, comes across as a justification for their substandard editor.

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56 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

it is a package deal. ...To try and separate out the editor from the service is a little disingenuous, and whether intended or not, comes across as a justification for their substandard editor.

Yes; We have to use the editor to create/view a note.

No; For note content, it's possible to never use the Evernote editor.
       My "serious" work is done using external editors, mostly Word/Pages.  
       I also have many pdf files and images.

       This is my justification for ignoring the editor deficiencies; I use whatever tool works best.

Lighting a candle instead of cursing the darkness

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4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

No; For note content, it's possible to never use the Evernote editor.
 

Do you honestly think that anyone is using EN w/o using the editor?  Whether for serious work or not, everyone uses the editor to some degree.  To try and separate the editor from the service when discussing Evernote the product seems a bit dishonest to me.  The point I was trying to make is that Premium (and Plus) users are paying for the editor development, so yes, for them it is a package deal.

I was going to apologize for hijacking the thread but this is probably a better discussion than talking about EN going out of business ?.

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On 9/26/2018 at 12:01 PM, s2sailor said:

Do you honestly think that anyone is using EN w/o using the editor?

I use the Evernote editor for basic notes; it's working well for me.
If the editor isn't working for you; use a different editor - there are plenty to chose from.
As an employee producing a report; I would not use the Evernote editor. The product would be unacceptable.  I do store the report in Evernote.

This doesn't change the fact; the software is free, Paid or Basic account.
edit; I also use Evernote's Scannable app (IOS).  It's also free. ?

>>Those of us that pay "are" paying for the app development, the free users certainly are not. 

In the initial years, development was funded by investor money.  There are rumours Evernote is seeking additional investor funding.

edit: The additional funding comment was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the TechCrunch article
There is no confirmation.  Anyways, I have no problem with development funded by investors

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13 minutes ago, CalS said:

images.jpg.564cfcefc5700d16276ad41f7bd63107.jpg

There's a theory that the English laugh three times at a joke.  Once when it's told, once when it's explained, once when they understand.
I laughed at @EdH's post.  Maybe @jefito can explain this one too.
 

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

This doesn't change the fact; the software is free, Paid or Basic account.

 

Sigh ... I think the horse is still twitching, but I'll leave it be.

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6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

There's a theory that the English laugh three times at a joke.  Once when it's told, once when it's explained, once when they understand.
I laughed at @EdH's post.  Maybe @jefito can explain this one too.
 

My sense of Walter Sobchak's reaction to your postings re the EN editor.  ;)

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14 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Maybe @jefito can explain this one too.
 

Take a break from the forum and go check out the Big Lebowski ... it is a classic in my book.

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10 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Take a break from the forum and go check out the Big Lebowski ... it is a classic in my book.

Oh yeah!

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7 hours ago, jefito said:

Ok, come on now. Evernote still has a free version available at the link you mentioned; this is an easily verifiable fact. It's been around for as long as I've used Evernote (10+ years), and yes, it's constrained in some respects, but it's still useful, and again, it is free, as in free beer. 

Now feel free to get back to debating Evernote's imminent -- or not -- demise, pins dancing on the heads of angels, how much Chris O'Neill spends on socks, and other very important matters above my pay grade, knowledge domain and level of interest...

Of course it has a free version and it equally has paid versions. My comment was as a user who has been paying for years and that I expect to get a quality product in return. I don't think I do. You may think differently. That's ok. @DTLow then responded stating that the product is free, presumable to imply that I should be thankful because I get it for free. Well I don't, because  I am paying and if I am paying I am going to express my views just as any customer would when they are paying. It's really not a hard point to grasp. Perhaps read the thread before feeling the need to lob in with comments next time.

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9 hours ago, David_C. said:

60% in R&D is not too much to fix all the bugs in the Windows client, to FINALLY bring handwriting on Windows touch devices, a dark theme and notebook encryption ?

I hear you. That's the real problem isn't it. They have mismanaged the business for so long, and failed to meet the expectations of users that the "product debt" is so large now that they are going to have to dig deep. I guess that's why they need to raise more capital as a down round.

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23 hours ago, s2sailor said:

I was going to apologize for hijacking the thread but this is probably a better discussion than talking about EN going out of business ?.

Definitely better

I also liked @Jefito's comment in an above post

 Now feel free to get back to debating Evernote's imminent -- or not -- demise, pins dancing on the heads of angels, how much Chris O'Neill spends on socks, and other very important matters above my pay grade, knowledge domain and level of interest...

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