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Dave-in-Decatur

The Great Big Brand Refresh

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10 hours ago, rgschmidt said:

Hmm, that makes me think: if Evernote would really listen to it's customers then there would not be so many peoply "Whining" ?

Could be. In that regard, the notice about updates and reorganization of these forums is interesting:

Among other things, it indicates that the purpose of the reorganization is to "hone in on the user sentiment more accurately and expediently, and help to provide a better overall Evernote experience."

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3 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Among other things, it indicates that the purpose of the reorganization is to "hone in on the user sentiment more accurately and expediently, and help to provide a better overall Evernote experience."

And immediately locked down to prevent user sentiment on the post.

 

Evernote forum locked.png

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20 hours ago, jbenson2 said:

And immediately locked down to prevent user sentiment on the post.

 

Evernote forum locked.png

the thread is locked because its in the community announcements section and is an announcement, not the beginning of a discussion. as your post here shows, there is nothing preventing you from voicing your concerns elsewhere in the forums :)

 

(unless you were making a joke, in which case i apologize for being so literal - its my job!)

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I understand the at-best skeptical and at-worst irritated reaction to this self-proclaimed and entirely vague refreshing. However, I can also understand the thinking behind such a refreshing effort despite its lack of initial substance.

Consider the following two scenarios:

-An introduction of several user-requested features along with general performance improvements followed by a rebranding marketing campaign.

-An initial rebranding marketing campaign followed by the introduction of several user-requested features along with general performance improvements.

If I am Evernote, I would go with Option B over Option A every time. Or, better yet, Option C, where Evernote would have announced this refresh alongside a description of meaningful changes. I guess that would have been asking for too much. /s

Without a doubt, we should be highly skeptical of Evernote suddenly doing a 180 with regard to long-standing performance and functionality issues, but maybe this truly is the start of a change in priorities. The combination of this announced refresh, a few high-level executives leaving the company and the aforementioned glaring issues which, I would suspect, have impacted Evernote's bottom line give me at least some hope of them having finally seen the light. With that said, there remains the risk Evernote will instead make the choice to put fluff innovation first before core functionality, which will only alienate us moderate-to-heavy users even further. Just how important we are to Evernote compared to new and/or casual users remains to be seen, but we should find out soon enough.

I won't be holding my breath obviously, but I'm willing to give Evernote a bit of time to show us something. If they are truly serious about this rebranding effort, they should follow up with something of substance soon. If nothing comes of it, I think it's safe to say Evernote will never put reliability first.



 

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Mr. O'Neill confirmed sacking of 15 % staff right now. Exactly which changes will be implemented in Evernote soon and in 2019 I could not get out of his announcement. 

If Evernote for Windows, in particular the editor, gets the major facelift I will happily go Premium.

 

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On 8/16/2018 at 2:20 PM, chirmer said:

 

 

Unfortunately, there are no "angry" and "dubious" reaction emoticons provided in the forum software.

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On 9/19/2018 at 1:34 AM, noteaddict48 said:

If Evernote for Windows, in particular the editor, gets the major facelift I will happily go Premium.

If everyone paid for their use of the product, there might be enough money to fund the development for such changes.

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On 9/19/2018 at 4:34 AM, noteaddict48 said:

If Evernote for Windows, in particular the editor, gets the major facelift I will happily go Premium.

I absolutely understand this sentiment. I cheered when my work PC got swapped for a Mac. EN for Windows is a much, much poorer experience than its Mac counterpart. I sincerely hope the rebrand comes with an entire overhaul of that platform, myself.

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59 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

Unfortunately, there are no "angry" and "dubious" reaction emoticons provided in the forum software.

Your quote of me didn't actually include any text. Was there a certain part you didn't like? Which comment in particular were you replying to?

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16 hours ago, DTLow said:

If everyone paid for their use of the product, there might be enough money to fund the development for such changes.

In a way your thoughts seem perfectly logical. However I am puzzled to learn that the user experience for Mac users is a lot better. Why should that be? From my understanding Windows is still the predominant OS. As far as I can judge Evernote is excellent as far web clips are concerned but editing is just too awkward. I am also sure my monthly demands would never exceed 200 MB, if that. 

Nevertheless just for the sheer convenience I would gladly pay for Premium but understandly I do not feel inclined to fund developments without a convincing timeline. After all Evernote is not new on the market. 

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On 9/26/2018 at 5:45 AM, noteaddict48 said:

However I am puzzled to learn that the user experience for Mac users is a lot better. Why should that be? 

Apple slogan; 28AB3510-92F0-4A28-B9AE-2C57D1C70B1E.png.f2a5084e31562a41c51788a445b79fa7.png

 

Seriously, imho Mac is an easier platform to work on; both for users and developers

 

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10 minutes ago, noteaddict48 said:

In a way your thoughts seem perfectly logical. However I am puzzled to learn that the user experience for Mac users is a lot better. Why should that be? From my understanding Windows is still the predominant OS.

I've been asking myself the same question for years. Windows + 80% market share worldwide, MAC less than 15. In Europe, Mac is a funny joke, while the European market is larger than the US market. I don't understand the logic at all. 

Let's be clear, I'm not asking EN to leave Mac/Apple users behind at all. No, I ask that they respect the overwhelming majority as well as the minority.

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23 hours ago, noteaddict48 said:

In a way your thoughts seem perfectly logical. However I am puzzled to learn that the user experience for Mac users is a lot better. Why should that be? From my understanding Windows is still the predominant OS.

 

23 hours ago, David_C. said:

I've been asking myself the same question for years. Windows + 80% market share worldwide, MAC less than 15. In Europe, Mac is a funny joke, while the European market is larger than the US market. I don't understand the logic at all. 

Let's be clear, I'm not asking EN to leave Mac/Apple users behind at all. No, I ask that they respect the overwhelming majority as well as the minority.

This has always been one of my personal gripes with how Evernote develops their apps. Specifically, each platform has its own team that, essentially, does its own thing. This leads to wildly different experiences (and apps!) on different platforms. For example, the Windows client rolled out using the Chrome PDF viewer about a year ago. It's nowhere to be found in the Mac client (thank GOD). It's a terrible experience, cut off a bunch of abilities you could previously do (like drag the PDF out of Evernote and into something else). And it's Windows only.

You also have apps that look wildly different. IMO, the Mac client has a great design team. It looks nice, it looks like it belongs in macOS, there's pretty solid type hierarchy. And the Windows client... small text across the board, header text is small, the snippet view is unusable when you've got text-based PDFs/images in the note, etc.

This was the first thing I thought of when I read this brand refresh. A major aspect of things like this is to get the entire company going the same direction. And when it comes with a brand overhaul (like logo tweaks and such, not just a new slogan), it usually also means a streamlining of the software appearance. I'm desperately hoping that means Mac and Windows clients that look at all remotely like they're the same software.

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49 minutes ago, chirmer said:

 

This has always been one of my personal gripes with how Evernote develops their apps. Specifically, each platform has its own team that, essentially, does its own thing. This leads to wildly different experiences (and apps!) on different platforms. For example, the Windows client rolled out using the Chrome PDF viewer about a year ago. It's nowhere to be found in the Mac client (thank GOD). It's a terrible experience, cut off a bunch of abilities you could previously do (like drag the PDF out of Evernote and into something else). And it's Windows only.

You also have apps that look wildly different. IMO, the Mac client has a great design team. It looks nice, it looks like it belongs in macOS, there's pretty solid type hierarchy. And the Windows client... small text across the board, header text is small, the snippet view is unusable when you've got text-based PDFs/images in the note, etc.

This was the first thing I thought of when I read this brand refresh. A major aspect of things like this is to get the entire company going the same direction. And when it comes with a brand overhaul (like logo tweaks and such, not just a new slogan), it usually also means a streamlining of the software appearance. I'm desperately hoping that means Mac and Windows clients that look at all remotely like they're the same software.

Exactly, and there would be a lot to say about the "contempt" for Windows users, I give some examples:


- There was a mobile application, it was deleted. But before that, this mobile application didn't even allow manual note taking, nor did the stylus. I will be told that if it was deleted, it was because the Windows Mobile platform was dying. Where is the problem since Windows mobile applications can be deployed on both mobile and PC and Hybrid (portable touch screen devices). So if Windows Phone is dying, hybrids and PCs are not, far from it. I have two Pro Surfaces and Evernote is unusable without a keyboard or mouse, in other words, I forget Evernote on the Surface and only use it on a PC. An aberration when on the other hand, OneNote can be used in both classic and mobile versions, and both support handwriting and stylus.    


- To give the change, Evernote replaces this famous mobile application available in the Windows Store with... The desktop application encapsulated to be available on this famous store. However, this application downloadable on the Windows Store, which updates automatically, unlike its big sister downloadable on the Evernote site, is even more buggy than the classic version, less reactive, freezing as soon as it is requested a little too quickly and in addition has lost options along the way. A so-called modernized version (I still wonder why since it is impossible to use in touch) which is even less reliable than the traditional version. So yes, Evernote makes fun of Windows users when they are the vast majority of customers worldwide. Incomprehensible. Is Evernote paid by Apple to abandon Windows, it's frankly something to wonder about sometimes.

And there would be many other examples.

Even less understandable when you know that the direct competitor (OneNote) is very well developed by Microsoft for other platforms than its own, and even better since some new features sometimes arrive on iOS, MacOS or Android before they even appear on Windows. 
I have been using Evernote and OneNote extensively for years for totally different needs. When I see the lead Evernote had on many points, and the delay now on almost all points, I wonder how things are being handled. 

It makes no sense to seriously develop for the overwhelmingly mobile platform (Android) and not do it for the one on the desktop. I know that many people will contradict me, but I don't take notes on my phone, I take them with my Surfaces or my PC, on my mobile, I only consult them: a phone is more convenient to do my shopping than a PC or a Laptop, but to write, it is still quite limited.

 

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On 9/26/2018 at 2:49 PM, DTLow said:

Apple slogan; 28AB3510-92F0-4A28-B9AE-2C57D1C70B1E.png.f2a5084e31562a41c51788a445b79fa7.png

 

Seriously, imho Mac is an easier platform to work on; both for users and developers

 

Slogans are all very well and I have certainly had great respect for Apple, especially when under the leadership of Steve Jobs.

OT/ on

I keep myself somewhat informed on what goes on and to my own regret I found plenty of comments by users and articles in the press on the growing number of Mac users with complaints concerning the latest Mac models. I got myself interested in the latest 2018 Macbook Pro 15" only to discover that the standard hardware specification was hardly overwhelming and on top of that the more powerful cpu apparently had an overheating problem resulting in stepping down. So, Apple like the rest of the hardware bunch hastily had to supply a patch. The butterfly keyboard was another case, best not mentioned. /off

OK, programmers may indeed have a more complex job with Windows applications.

Valid point? No! Why?

 Because there is software on the market, not just recently,  levels up on Evernote for which users have the free choice of  Mac or Win version or both.  Lookalike, identical functions, apart from the inherent OS differences. Nice and easy for the user. 

Time for Evernote to catch up. 

BTW   Win 10 at this stage of development is a very stable and user friendly OS with excellent hardware support.  

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7 hours ago, noteaddict48 said:

OK, programmers may indeed have a more complex job with Windows applications.

Valid point? No! Why?

 Because there is software on the market, not just recently,  levels up on Evernote for which users have the free choice of  Mac or Win version or both.  Lookalike, identical functions, apart from the inherent OS differences. Nice and easy for the user. 

Time for Evernote to catch up. 

BTW   Win 10 at this stage of development is a very stable and user friendly OS with excellent hardware support.  

Yes and above all, if it were so difficult to develop for Windows, it would be necessary to explain why there is infinitely more softwares under Windows, or that games are massively developed for Windows and not for Mac.

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As a Mac user, the last thing I want is for my apps to look like a Windows app. Both OS have different design guidelines for their apps and generally I find Apple's clearer UI styles easier to see and use. In comparison, Windows apps are often ugly and complex.

Anyway, the Evernote icon that we are all meant to be excited about looks the same on both.

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10 minutes ago, Metrodon said:

As a Mac user, the last thing I want is for my apps to look like a Windows app. Both OS have different design guidelines for their apps and generally I find Apple's clearer UI styles easier to see and use. In comparison, Windows apps are often ugly and complex.

Anyway, the Evernote icon that we are all meant to be excited about looks the same on both.

That's not what we're asking at all, personally I find Mac awful, and in no way customizable. Everyone has their own tastes. What others and I are asking is that Evernote make the same development efforts for Windows as for Mac, and these efforts focus on quality and functionality, which is absolutely not the case at the moment. The feeling that Windows users can have is that Evernote develops for Windows because it can't do otherwise, and without any enthusiasm (and that's an understatement)

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7 hours ago, David_C. said:

Yes and above all, if it were so difficult to develop for Windows, it would be necessary to explain why there is infinitely more softwares under Windows, or that games are massively developed for Windows and not for Mac.

I"m a developer and I know the technical requirements for working on different platforms.
Here's a simple example; I currently use scripts to enhance my use of Evernote.  The Apple Mac platform supports an integrated Applescript environment; it's not available on other platforms.

As for making a living, I know which platforms have the majority of users; Windows and Android
Best income is from delivering apps on those platforms.

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6 hours ago, David_C. said:

Yes and above all, if it were so difficult to develop for Windows, it would be necessary to explain why there is infinitely more softwares under Windows, or that games are massively developed for Windows and not for Mac.

No explanation required. It's simple math. There are, by far, more Windows users out there than Mac users, and this has been the case for many years. Just one bit of 'evidence', first hit in a browser search: https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/15176766/apple-microsoft-windows-10-vs-mac-users-figures-stats

So more users means larger potential market means any difficulty of development is less of an issue. And since this disparity has existed for a long time, there's a fair amount of codebases that were initially developed on Windows that are large and complex, and converting that to work on Mac would be very costly (15+ years ago, the company that I worked for looked into this for the brand new Mac platform; initial estimate was that it would take at least a million dollars to produce even a basic, cut down version of our software, and that was a deal killer right there).

The gaming thing? As I understand it (not being a Mac developer), Mac's OpenGL (graphics API for a lot of games) support was pretty bad and not kept up to date, and maybe is even on its way out now (https://www.pcgamer.com/developers-fear-for-mac-gaming-as-apple-deprecates-opengl-support/). Yes, Apple does have their own new Metal system, so developers who want to get the new shiny have to learn that API now, and convert anything they've used before over to that (I don't know anything about Metal, so I have no feel for level-of-effort there; I'm still relatively new at OpenGL, and not an expert by any means).

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19 hours ago, noteaddict48 said:

Slogans are all very well and I have certainly had great respect for Apple, especially when under the leadership of Steve Jobs.

 

 

I've used Macs and Windows and have not found Macs to be better, in fact, Macs my family have owned have completed broken down; that never happened to me with a PC. If I did a lot of graphics work I would consider a Mac because the software seems to be better.

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9 hours ago, Etonreve said:

Macs my family have owned have completed broken down; that never happened to me with a PC.

I've heard PCs don't break down too.

I think the discussion related more to software OS than hardware.

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On 9/19/2018 at 4:34 AM, noteaddict48 said:

Mr. O'Neill confirmed sacking of 15 % staff right now. Exactly which changes will be implemented in Evernote soon and in 2019 I could not get out of his announcement. 

If Evernote for Windows, in particular the editor, gets the major facelift I will happily go Premium.

 

I like the facelift, perhaps you could expand on that?  What kind of changes are you looking for? Also, maybe posting something in feature request would get some traction and more people 

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