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jbenson2

(Archived) Evernote Essentials E-Book from Trunk

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Just 84 PDF pages and the asking price is $25.00 ?

Holy cow - that is a lot of money

(even with the temporary discount)

Good luck - but frankly I would be surprised if there is a big market for an 84 page $25.00 E-Book

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Brett says he's selling more than he expected, but we certainly wouldn't mind someone else publishing their own book, to compete on pages, price, etc... (We have 6 different books about Evernote in Japan, and only one eBook in English...)

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Oooooh...I'm kind of tempted. He does offer a 30 day money back guarantee. Think I'll put this on my "think about it" list.

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Burgers, you should write your own. You've probably authored hundreds pages of material on these forums alone that you could categorize into topics of interest to EN newbies and power users. If you can sell it to 1% of the EN user base that's 30,000 copies. Sell it for $9.99 and you're doing pretty well.

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Oh, I'm definitely doing that when I hit 10,000 posts...

post-8171-1319060669_thumb.png

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Oh, I'm definitely doing that when I hit 10,000 posts...

What, three or four days from now?

~Jeff

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Burgers, you should write your own. You've probably authored hundreds pages of material on these forums alone that you could categorize into topics of interest to EN newbies and power users. If you can sell it to 1% of the EN user base that's 30,000 copies. Sell it for $9.99 and you're doing pretty well.

Hmmm...you may be right.

Oh, I'm definitely doing that when I hit 10,000 posts...

I guess Dave could throw in a free t-shirt to sweeten the pot. But you'd probably only have one choice - mens black/grey. OTOH I could throw in some burgers & fries.

Seriously though, it seems I'm always learning something new around here. So when Brett boasts about his Evernote prowess, I wonder how much of what's in his ebook that I would find helpful. I certainly don't mind paying for info that is very helpful to me. But if I bought it & only learned one or two things, I'd be disappointed.

Unless those one or two things were really, really, REALLY helpful!

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Reading this "ebook" now. (FF'd to page 30.)

"As you've probably already figured out, this will find all of the notes tagged with "Cumin waffles" (I have at least 30)."

:shock:

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Howdy! Guy-who-wrote-the-book-in-question, reporting for duty :(

I wrote something explaining my motivation behind the price here: http://journal.brettkelly.org/my-ebook- ... -rationale (spoiler: Lots of people find the price to be too high, but several thousand people have not).

Let me know if you have any feedback, I'd love to hear it as I'm in the process of preparing the first major upgrade.

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Howdy! Guy-who-wrote-the-book-in-question, reporting for duty :)

I wrote something explaining my motivation behind the price here: http://journal.brettkelly.org/my-ebook- ... -rationale (spoiler: Lots of people find the price to be too high, but several thousand people have not).

Let me know if you have any feedback, I'd love to hear it as I'm in the process of preparing the first major upgrade.

I'm just still reeling at the thought of someone having 30+ cumin waffle recipes... :(

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I'm just still reeling at the thought of someone having 30+ cumin waffle recipes... :D

Even 30 waffle recipes is about 29 more than I would ever use. :)

~Jeff

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While I don't have any issue with the author charging whatever he feels is right for his eBook ($25 seems fairly reasonable for a software title, especially one that's being updated regularly; I'll consider buying it after seeing the changes in the next rev), I do think Evernote itself should have better documentation.

For example, I think the whole notebooks vs. tags debate could partially be avoided if the documentation was clear about how these are to be used - i.e. that tags can be really thought of more like folders, rather than a simple metadata field as most people are familiar with from managing photos, etc, and that users shouldn't go crazy creating notebooks because there are no containers for them. Also, I think the mobile clients should have better documentation as well, in PDF format.

I was pleased to see that a new search syntax section was added to the Mac User Guide - this is a step in the right direction. However I had no idea that the PDF had been updated until I by chance re-downloaded it from the link from the forums.

Dave - do you think it would be possible to add an update to that thread whenever the documentation is revised that lets users know a new version is available, along with revision details? That would be valuable info for those of us who participate in these forums on a regular basis.

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For example, I think the whole notebooks vs. tags debate could partially be avoided if the documentation was clear about how these are to be used - i.e. that tags can be really thought of more like folders, rather than a simple metadata field as most people are familiar with from managing photos, etc, and that users shouldn't go crazy creating notebooks because there are no containers for them. Also, I think the mobile clients should have better documentation as well, in PDF format.

While better documentation is always welcome, I doubt that obviating the tags vs. folder debate would occur in this example; it's no good telling people that tags are like folders (i.e. containers) when they're really not (they're more like adjectives). Product documentation should mainly reflect the software and how it operates, rather than what the software isn't. Use cases and advice are good things, too, but adding concepts that don't exist in Evernote would seem to be more confusing than useful.

~Jeff

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For example, I think the whole notebooks vs. tags debate could partially be avoided if the documentation was clear about how these are to be used - i.e. that tags can be really thought of more like folders, rather than a simple metadata field as most people are familiar with from managing photos, etc, and that users shouldn't go crazy creating notebooks because there are no containers for them. Also, I think the mobile clients should have better documentation as well, in PDF format.

While better documentation is always welcome, I doubt that obviating the tags vs. folder debate would occur in this example; it's no good telling people that tags are like folders (i.e. containers) when they're really not (they're more like adjectives). Product documentation should mainly reflect the software and how it operates, rather than what the software isn't. Use cases and advice are good things, too, but adding concepts that don't exist in Evernote would seem to be more confusing than useful.

~Jeff

While you and I might agree on this point, it seems that the Evernote engineers don't. On all of the threads about this debate, the answer always comes back that there is no support for folders for notebooks, nor is there any indication that there will ever be such support. Tags are always cited as an alternative to achieve the same thing (though, I would take the side in the debate that says that they really don't - they're more descriptive as you state).

Thus, if this is the philosophy of the software designers, and they feel we really don't need folders, I think it should be clearly documented in the manual how tags can better achieve the goal of organizing notes. I've got runaway notebook syndrome and would desperately like folders to organize them. Since that feature is probably never forthcoming (apparently it's a major engineering challenge), I really wish I had received better guidance early on for the best ways to structure my data. Now that my wife is starting to use Evernote, I'm encouraging her to keep her notebooks to a minimum and let tags to the lifting.

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sterlingz wrote:

I've got runaway notebook syndrome and would desperately like folders to organize them.

I had the same issue when I started with Evernote.

After reading the posts on the problems users had with dozens of notebooks, I consolidated to high-level topics and put everything into just 7 notebooks.

Easy to remember Tags, Consistent Title Formatting, Search Grammar along with a few other tweaks make it so easy to find anything in my 7,500 notes. It has made a world of difference in using Evernote.

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Well it looks like hell has frozen over, and folders are coming in the 2.0 version for Mac (though to be fair, they're not called folders, they're called notebook "stacks")! So I was wrong, but this feature, like others before it, will need some further documentation :) Might have to wait until the 2.0 release to buy that eBook . . .

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Re: "folders" ... the next release of Evernote for the Mac (version 2.0 - see viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19967) allows you to organize your notebooks into "stacks" of books, which can be opened or closed, or used to filter your searches. So you can have one stack for "home" and one for "work", which can contain notebooks from each part of your life.

post-8171-131906068403_thumb.png

We'll be adding the same thing to other platforms ... the Mac schedule just let us do it there first.

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Well it looks like hell has frozen over, and folders are coming in the 2.0 version for Mac (though to be fair, they're not called folders, they're called notebook "stacks")! So I was wrong, but this feature, like others before it, will need some further documentation :) Might have to wait until the 2.0 release to buy that eBook . . .

Yeah, Dave has been mentioning notebook 'stacks' for some time, at least a month if I recall correctly; I figured it was just a matter of when they came out, and how they'd compare/contrast to our notions of how traditional folder operate. Lucky you -- you get them first (I'm a Windows client user). I'm looking forward to seeing how they pan out for folks, and of course gettign my mitts on them too.

~Jeff

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Status update: Not had the chance/inclination* to read this in the past ~10 days.

(I think the 30+ cumin waffle recipe thing was a shock to my system.)

BUT...I did use Calibre to convert it to mobi and put it on my Kindle. Mr. Fries is having knee surgery next week, so I suspect I will have the time & inclination* to get back to this.

* I read on the Kindle each evening. But when it's the end of the day, I'm not always wanting to read "tech" stuff. Not that it has any bearing on this topic, on this message board. :)

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How long do people expect to wait for an ebook once they paid? When someone buys an ebook online, and pays for it online such as by using PayPal, how long does the customer expect to have to wait for their ebook to get sent to them? Do they expect to get it that day? The next day? Within a week?

____________________________

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How long do people expect to wait for an ebook once they paid? When someone buys an ebook online, and pays for it online such as by using PayPal, how long does the customer expect to have to wait for their ebook to get sent to them? Do they expect to get it that day? The next day? Within a week?

Immediately (less than 5 minutes), as soon as the credit card or paypal approves the transaction. If it is longer I would not buy it.

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How long do people expect to wait for an ebook once they paid? When someone buys an ebook online, and pays for it online such as by using PayPal, how long does the customer expect to have to wait for their ebook to get sent to them? Do they expect to get it that day? The next day? Within a week?

In general? It depends. Delivery can range from immediate to a week or more from now, if it's a pre-order.

Or are you specifically talking about "Evernote Essentials"? In Evernote, I have a copy of the screen cap I took from when I purchased Evernote Essentials as well as the email confirming payment via Paypal funded with a credit card and the email giving me the link to download the ebook. All three have a time of 11/1/10 3:29 p.m. If you didn't get an email confirming payment, you should check your spam box. If you still don't have it, then it would appear the payment did not go through. Of course, you will not get the subsequent email with the download link if payment did not go through.

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How long do people expect to wait for an ebook once they paid? When someone buys an ebook online, and pays for it online such as by using PayPal, how long does the customer expect to have to wait for their ebook to get sent to them? Do they expect to get it that day? The next day? Within a week?

Hello (author of Evernote Essentials here - how ya doin'),

Once you pay via Paypal, you should receive your download link within a few minutes (I've seen it take as long as an hour, but this is rare). If not, my email address is on nerdgap.com/contact - shoot me a message and I'll get you squared away quick-like!

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I purchased the e-book last year when it was released.

Later we were told that the author was working on a new version which would be sent to all buyers.

What about this new version ?

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Brett Kelly,

As the author and seller of "Evernote Essentials" you promised that we would be getting updates:

And, because Evernote is constantly being developed and having new features added, I’ll be regularly updating this guide and all purchases include free updates for 6 full months

I purchased it from you in August 2010, but I have not received any updates. I just checked your web site and I don't see any updates there.

Meanwhile, Evernote has been completely rewritten for both the Windows and Mac platforms. Timely updates would have been very helpful.

If I don't receive a useful update in the next few weeks, I'll be requesting my money back.

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Brett Kelly,

I purchased it from you in August 2010, but I have not received any updates. I just checked your web site and I don't see any updates there.

Meanwhile, Evernote has been completely rewritten for both the Windows and Mac platforms. Timely updates would have been very helpful.

If I don't receive a useful update in the next few weeks, I'll be requesting my money back.

I extended the upgrade period to a year a couple of months ago. I'm hoping to have the new version out soon, probably in a couple of weeks.

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Is the new version of the eBook available yet?

I guess not. :?

No sense in buying a $25 e-book that's out of date. Would appreciate an ETA, as your previous post a month ago said you hope to have a new version out "in a couple weeks."

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Is the new version of the eBook available yet?

I guess not. :?

No sense in buying a $25 e-book that's out of date. Would appreciate an ETA, as your previous post a month ago said you hope to have a new version out "in a couple weeks."

You do know it's the weekend, right? Although there is a lot of EN presence here on the board (especially Dave), there's no guarantee EN staff is on the message board on any given day, especially weekends. Expecting a reply within 24 hours, especially on a weekend is unrealistic.

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You do know it's the weekend, right? Although there is a lot of EN presence here on the board (especially Dave), there's no guarantee EN staff is on the message board on any given day, especially weekends. Expecting a reply within 24 hours, especially on a weekend is unrealistic.

Not so much "expecting" a response as "hoping." I had some downtime this weekend and was considering reading the book if I got a quick reply from someone saying "yes - the one on his website is the updated version."

I wasn't sure if he was going to make a big deal about it being a "revised version" or just update the download file and keep it invisible to new buyers, while also pushing out the revised version to past customers.

I was also thinking since he HAS been hired by EN, that someone else might be in the know and could answer. Or just possibly, he had "email notifications" turned on to this thread, since it is about his book, and would've been notified of the post.

Anyway - it's not a big deal.

Don't take :? smileys too seriously. :shock:

8)

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Hi, author here.

Doing the best I can to get this thing out the door, but all of the new feature additions to the desktop clients = more work on the ebook before the update. Everybody who bought it will get the update, so don't worry. Your patience is appreciated!

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Thus, if this is the philosophy of the software designers, and they feel we really don't need folders, I think it should be clearly documented in the manual how tags can better achieve the goal of organizing notes. I've got runaway notebook syndrome and would desperately like folders to organize them. Since that feature is probably never forthcoming (apparently it's a major engineering challenge), I really wish I had received better guidance early on for the best ways to structure my data.

Well, I'm back again trying to find a way to make Evernote work for me. And that is the shame of this product ... what the HELL is it good for? No one seems to be able to give a cogent answer to that crucial question. The product is VERY clever ... but what to do with it? And that is where the question of documentation comes in. The product is poorly documented, perhaps on the belief that its use is so obvious that no explanation is necessary. I don't find it obvious at all. There are examples of how people have used it but they all net out to: "I use it to store my stuff." But I don't care about wine labels. If I want to know where I parked my car and took a picture of the parking space ... it is ON THE PHONE ... I don't have to lo access the web to get to it. I thought it was an interesting use to run outdoor flash restaurants. But I don't do that either. So what do I do? I store basic research and time management information.

And that is what brought me here today. I wanted to revisit how to set up folders and tags. I have a nice setup in OneNote but it lacks the cross platform and mobility features of Evernote. Evernote is a poor second to OneNote in terms of user interface, but I can live with that if I get the mobility lacking in OneNote while keeping the functionality I need. But can I GET that? Who knows? There is no documentation I can find. I'm here searching the forum to tap the collective wisdom. What do I find? Others as frustrated as I am. As the writer I quote (among others) says: why can't we at least have documentation that shows us how to use the functionality the developers put in and claim does what we require?

- I need nested levels of folders.

--- No you don't, you can do without them if you use tags.

- O.K. if I nest my tags that will work?

--- Well, not really, we don't pay any attention to tags in the structure except the lowest level.

- So please tell me HOW to use the functionality to do what I want my nested folders to do!

---

The developers, especially Dave, are very helpful. I think it is that they just don't see the problem. I suspect their use of the product is such that they can't grasp that I need structure to my data. Searching is only ONE way to access data. A simple physical example might help here. I arrange the books in my library by subject (really area then by subject). The reason I do that rather than by size or alpha by author or title (as some seem comfortable doing) is that when I think of a book title I'm MOST often not so much interested in THAT book as in a book which has that kind of information in it. And the information will be in a book "around" the book I was looking for. IOW, I discover information by browsing.

For the kind of data I put into Evernote this presents as my remembering that what I'm looking for is in a bank statement from BOA last year. How much easier for me to access folders nested like: Finance > Banks > BOA > 2010 than to search for "car" which gets me to repair bills and insurance policies for many years? It becomes hit and miss. I have to remember to have tagged the record correctly, remember the tag I used, or hope that I guess at a word in the document. That is just not how I think! I mean, I do sometimes, but it is not my default. I tend to organize on the front end, not the back.

So I, for one among many it seems, would LOVE more structure to the Evernote data: nested folders and nested tags with all levels being meaningful in a search. If this is too much difficulty, perhaps some real documentation to demonstrate HOW the features available can be used to accomplish the task? I ran across one post where someone laid out how folders and tags could be used to manage an inventory of paintings. That was helpful. We need more of that!

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For the kind of data I put into Evernote this presents as my remembering that what I'm looking for is in a bank statement from BOA last year. How much easier for me to access folders nested like: Finance > Banks > BOA > 2010 than to search for "car" which gets me to repair bills and insurance policies for many years? It becomes hit and miss. I have to remember to have tagged the record correctly, remember the tag I used, or hope that I guess at a word in the document. That is just not how I think! I mean, I do sometimes, but it is not my default. I tend to organize on the front end, not the back.

I agree on a couple things:

- the need for better documentation. I was hoping with the hiring of Mr. Essentials we would've seen an announcement that better documentation is in the works

- nesting or better organization of tags

Regarding your issue with folders - it strikes me as similar to the paradigm shift of moving from Outlook email to Gmail with labels instead of folders. I would suggest some googling on how to best take advantage of Gmail Labels. They act the same as tags and you might "see the light.". :)

As for your specific example, I tag my bank statements with "boa" and "statement". With the nice OCR (or even decent note titles on my part) I can easily find any bank statement I need without having to worry about sticking them in the right folder.

It takes some practice, but after using gmail labels for a while, I now love the flexibility of tags vs the rigidness and single-threaded nature of folders.

Good luck.

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For the kind of data I put into Evernote this presents as my remembering that what I'm looking for is in a bank statement from BOA last year. How much easier for me to access folders nested like: Finance > Banks > BOA > 2010 than to search for "car" which gets me to repair bills and insurance policies for many years? It becomes hit and miss. I have to remember to have tagged the record correctly, remember the tag I used, or hope that I guess at a word in the document. That is just not how I think! I mean, I do sometimes, but it is not my default. I tend to organize on the front end, not the back.

Regarding your issue with folders - it strikes me as similar to the paradigm shift of moving from Outlook email to Gmail with labels instead of folders. I would suggest some googling on how to best take advantage of Gmail Labels. They act the same as tags and you might "see the light.". :)

Thanks for the constructive reply. I use Gmail and I have no problem with labels. BUT there is tremendous power in the way Google has implemented them. I can have my "folders" (as they are displayed" nested to any level. I can click on the level and see the contents which were put there ... to any level. The implementation was done to make them ACT like folders ... and for all intents and purposes they ARE folders. (Well, you can't duplicate the items BUT you can make it LOOK as if they are duplicated.) If tags were implemented this way in Evernote we would have none of this on going griping ;-)

As for your specific example, I tag my bank statements with "boa" and "statement". With the nice OCR (or even decent note titles on my part) I can easily find any bank statement I need without having to worry about sticking them in the right folder. .

Yes, and I can find what I want ... eventually. But what I did not make clear, perhaps, is that if I don't know EXACTLY what I want it can be harder than necessary to find. If I remember that I had some work done on my car around the first of the year in 2007 and I need to find it from a bank statement, searching for "car" is not going to do it for me. The listing will be "Joe's Service" ... if I'm lucky. It might be listed as "XYZ Billing services" or some such because of the way credit cards are handled. The way to find it is to scan each statement for the first months of the year letting my own brain notice such things as "car service looking names" or "amounts in the $200+ range", etc. I suppose I can search for "BOA" and "2007", that will get me all of the bank statements for that year ... but it will also get me everything else for the year 2007 and everything else where the number 2007 appears. (Unless there is some clever tag syntax that is possible but not documented. ;-) Still thinking .... I suppose that tagging "BOA" and "Statement" then searching for "2007" as well might do it in this case. But that is the kind of question that brings me here. I'm trying to replicate how my files are now set up and I've not discovered a way to do it without folders yet.

It takes some practice, but after using gmail labels for a while, I now love the flexibility of tags vs the rigidness and single-threaded nature of folders.

I agree that it should not be one or the other. I love tags ... I just need folders. Tags AS IMPLEMENTED in Evernote are not as powerful as in Gmail.

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Yes, and I can find what I want ... eventually. But what I did not make clear, perhaps, is that if I don't know EXACTLY what I want it can be harder than necessary to find. If I remember that I had some work done on my car around the first of the year in 2007 and I need to find it from a bank statement, searching for "car" is not going to do it for me. The listing will be "Joe's Service" ... if I'm lucky. It might be listed as "XYZ Billing services" or some such because of the way credit cards are handled. The way to find it is to scan each statement for the first months of the year letting my own brain notice such things as "car service looking names" or "amounts in the $200+ range", etc. I suppose I can search for "BOA" and "2007", that will get me all of the bank statements for that year ... but it will also get me everything else for the year 2007 and everything else where the number 2007 appears. (Unless there is some clever tag syntax that is possible but not documented. ;-) Still thinking .... I suppose that tagging "BOA" and "Statement" then searching for "2007" as well might do it in this case. But that is the kind of question that brings me here. I'm trying to replicate how my files are now set up and I've not discovered a way to do it without folders yet.

.

Sure, if you don't know EXACTLY what you are looking for, it may take five minutes instead of two. Regarding the example you provided, sorry, but I don't see the significance of trying to find a charge for auto work on your credit card bill, other than to prove it was paid. And I don't know how that would be effectively executed using folders, either. I guess you'd have to store a copy of your bank statement in not only your bank statement file but also your car file & grocery file & whatever else you paid during that statement period.

Much more effective (and what I do) is scan the invoice/work order (I keep all invoices/work orders for all three of our cars in a single notebook) & tag with the exact car the work was for. I set the created date of the note to the date of the invoice. I usually set the note title to include a brief description such as Joe's Service - oil change. To find something done on my husband's car in the first part of 2007, it would literally take one minute b/c I'd select all notes tagged with his car & sort by created date. I'd either filter by created date or simply scroll to 2007.

If you need to prove you paid for it, then you know what date it was paid & can quickly find the credit card statement for that month/year.

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SamIAm - thanks for the reply regarding gmail. I did not think about their implementation of labels vs Evernote's tags. I agree that Evernote could improve in their handling of tags and hope they continue development in that area.

BurgersNFries - have you posted somewhere your notebook structure? I need to reorganize mine and like to see what others do for inspiration. You seem to be well organized and have obviously been usi g the system a lot more then I.

Thanks.

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Yes, and I can find what I want ... eventually. But what I did not make clear, perhaps, is that if I don't know EXACTLY what I want it can be harder than necessary to find. If I remember that I had some work done on my car around the first of the year in 2007 and I need to find it from a bank statement, searching for "car" is not going to do it for me. The listing will be "Joe's Service" ... if I'm lucky. It might be listed as "XYZ Billing services" or some such because of the way credit cards are handled. The way to find it is to scan each statement for the first months of the year letting my own brain notice such things as "car service looking names" or "amounts in the $200+ range", etc. I suppose I can search for "BOA" and "2007", that will get me all of the bank statements for that year ... but it will also get me everything else for the year 2007 and everything else where the number 2007 appears. (Unless there is some clever tag syntax that is possible but not documented. ;-) Still thinking .... I suppose that tagging "BOA" and "Statement" then searching for "2007" as well might do it in this case. But that is the kind of question that brings me here. I'm trying to replicate how my files are now set up and I've not discovered a way to do it without folders yet.

.

Sure, if you don't know EXACTLY what you are looking for, it may take five minutes instead of two. Regarding the example you provided, sorry, but I don't see the significance of trying to find a charge for auto work on your credit card bill, other than to prove it was paid.

When I said that questions would sometimes generate challenges along the lines of: "Why should you want to do that?" This is what I meant. Why is my motive questioned? I'm a USER and I want to access MY DATA in a way that I think proper for MY PURPOSE. Maybe YOU would not want that information. But so what? See what I mean?

And I don't know how that would be effectively executed using folders, either. I guess you'd have to store a copy of your bank statement in not only your bank statement file but also your car file & grocery file & whatever else you paid during that statement period.

As I pointed out in my example it would be there if I had it in the following folder structure:

- Finance

-- Banks

--- BOA

---- 2007

--- City Bank

---- 2007

-- Credit Cards

--- Visa

---- 2007

etc.

Which is EXACTLY the way I have statements stored on my computer. There are 12 statements there to review and my brain can figure out when I'm getting warmer or colder. ;-) Of course another benefit is that I can quickly determine if I have all of my statements. There should be 12 for each year, etc.

Much more effective (and what I do) is scan the invoice/work order (I keep all invoices/work orders for all three of our cars in a single notebook) & tag with the exact car the work was for. I set the created date of the note to the date of the invoice. I usually set the note title to include a brief description such as Joe's Service - oil change. To find something done on my husband's car in the first part of 2007, it would literally take one minute b/c I'd select all notes tagged with his car & sort by created date. I'd either filter by created date or simply scroll to 2007.

That is a constructive suggestion. I'll have to see how I can apply it. Of course, it does not address my bank statement question. I'm not going to put 200 tags on the bank statement because there are that many ways I might want to get to any line item on it.

If you need to prove you paid for it, then you know what date it was paid & can quickly find the credit card statement for that month/year.

That is true. There are many was to skin that cat. Of course, it STILL does not solve the general problem. It just puts me in the position of creating more and more convoluted examples to show what the problem is. I'm not sure what I can tell you except that I have found it useful, more than a few times, to get to a document by browsing. "Honey, where did we go on that cruise 4 years or so ago where we left from NYC (or was it Baltimore)? It was someplace warm, I remember, and we saw a magic act on the boat." Sure, there is always SOME way to get to the data. My first cut would be to look for credit card payments to a cruise line when I think we went. If I have it scanned (or remember I do) I might pull up something on the words "hotel" or "NCL" or "Travelocity" or ...

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SamIAm - thanks for the reply regarding gmail. I did not think about their implementation of labels vs Evernote's tags. I agree that Evernote could improve in their handling of tags and hope they continue development in that area.

Welcome, of course ;-)

BurgersNFries - have you posted somewhere your notebook structure? I need to reorganize mine and like to see what others do for inspiration. You seem to be well organized and have obviously been usi g the system a lot more then I.

Thanks.

That kind of thing is very instructive. I think B-n-F posted a longish description somewhere ... recently (or I saw it recently) It was quite good.

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As I pointed out in my example it would be there if I had it in the following folder structure:

- Finance

-- Banks

--- BOA

---- 2007

--- City Bank

---- 2007

-- Credit Cards

--- Visa

---- 2007

etc.

As I mentioned earlier, i like learning from others, so I'm offering up my thought process on your above structure as "food for thought." Maybe there are filing requirements that I'm missing.

I just started going paperless and scanning all my statements a little while ago, so I haven't had a lot of time to "test" my thinking. But this is what I was planning to do for MYSELF as it relates to your above scenario (Since I also have BofA, Citibank, credit cards, etc.

One STACK for Finance. Under this would be Notebooks for Bills, Statements, Tax Returns or whatever.

But within the Statements Notebook, I would put all of the notes that would've been in all of your folders you outlined above. Some would get a 'Citi' tag, some a 'BOA' tag, some a 'Visa' tag, some a 'M/C' tag. If I wanted easy filtering by year, I might also tag them all '2011' and then '2012' when it gets here.

So if I'm looking for a visa statement, I can easily click "Statements" folder and then drill down by selecting 'Visa' tag and maybe the year I care about.

From a filing standpoint it just seems so much more efficient to dump them all into Statements.

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When I said that questions would sometimes generate challenges along the lines of: "Why should you want to do that?" This is what I meant. Why is my motive questioned? I'm a USER and I want to access MY DATA in a way that I think proper for MY PURPOSE. Maybe YOU would not want that information. But so what? See what I mean?.

Well...WHY would you want to do that? If you are trying to solve a particular problem (IE, find how much you spent on car 1 in the past 10 years or find out when you had waca waca done to car 1), then there may be a more efficient method rather than starting with your credit card bill. Asking WHY isn't necessarily challenging what you want to do. Nor, contrary to what you're interpreting/posting, does it translate to "You are stupid for wanting to do that."

The example you posted:

If I remember that I had some work done on my car around the first of the year in 2007 and I need to find it from a bank statement, searching for "car" is not going to do it for me. The listing will be "Joe's Service" ... if I'm lucky. It might be listed as "XYZ Billing services" or some such because of the way credit cards are handled. The way to find it is to scan each statement for the first months of the year letting my own brain notice such things as "car service looking names" or "amounts in the $200+ range", etc. I suppose I can search for "BOA" and "2007", that will get me all of the bank statements for that year ... but it will also get me everything else for the year 2007 and everything else where the number 2007 appears. (Unless there is some clever tag syntax that is possible but not documented. ;-) Still thinking .... I suppose that tagging "BOA" and "Statement" then searching for "2007" as well might do it in this case. But that is the kind of question that brings me here. I'm trying to replicate how my files are now set up and I've not discovered a way to do it without folders yet.

...is a disorganized way to find something & not specific to Evernote. Back in the day when I kept all paper files, no way I'd start with my bank/credit card statement to find what work was done on a car in early 2007. I'd start with...the file specific to that vehicle. So... posting an alternative (and certainly more efficient) method would normally be considered helpful. Of course, you don't have to utilize these alternatives. But to put other users down b/c they offer them up is not helpful.

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As I pointed out in my example it would be there if I had it in the following folder structure:

- Finance

-- Banks

--- BOA

---- 2007

--- City Bank

---- 2007

-- Credit Cards

--- Visa

---- 2007

etc.

As I mentioned earlier, i like learning from others, so I'm offering up my thought process on your above structure as "food for thought." Maybe there are filing requirements that I'm missing.

Well, we might come up with some ideas. I'm not sure I have any particular filing requirements other than the desire to be able to find things when I want to access them.

I just started going paperless and scanning all my statements a little while ago, so I haven't had a lot of time to "test" my thinking. But this is what I was planning to do for MYSELF as it relates to your above scenario (Since I also have BofA, Citibank, credit cards, etc.

I'm fairly new to paperless as well. I've been scanning paper on and off for a couple of years but have been somewhat tangled with the software. I had problems with PaperPort and I migrated from one computer to another ... a couple of times ... each time I had to reorient myself. I first replicated my paper file structure. I realize that electronic is not paper so I accept that I might file in a different way when going paperless. That is not my problem. I realize that I'm in a transition phase and so my paper structure is more comfortable in the beginning.

One STACK for Finance. Under this would be Notebooks for Bills, Statements, Tax Returns or whatever.

But within the Statements Notebook, I would put all of the notes that would've been in all of your folders you outlined above. Some would get a 'Citi' tag, some a 'BOA' tag, some a 'Visa' tag, some a 'M/C' tag. If I wanted easy filtering by year, I might also tag them all '2011' and then '2012' when it gets here.

So if I'm looking for a visa statement, I can easily click "Statements" folder and then drill down by selecting 'Visa' tag and maybe the year I care about.

From a filing standpoint it just seems so much more efficient to dump them all into Statements.

I've always thought that you either pay up front or in the end. IOW, putting some thought into the structure of the files when I file makes finding the files when I want them easier. It could work that way. When I think of it I get a sense of foreboding. Realize that it is not just bank statements, but phone, cable, power, and a whole host of other things. So there would probably be more stacks to handle different kinds of things. So in essence we are imposing a certain kind of structure, but stop before it really becomes effective. Right now I have a large hierarchy covering much of my life. It is not complete and it is evolving as I discover new documents I want to scan and convert. This is all in the ScanSnap file manager so I can nest to my hearts content ... but can't tag at all. My first attempt when I realized that I had to work with a flat file structure it was suggested to me that I could replicate the structure with Evernote tags.

As I began to move things to Evernote I struggled with too many folders and not being able to find what I want with searching and having tags inconsistently applied. I had a couple of documents relating to a subject and they had similar but different tags. The result was that I could not find what I wanted. This has caused me to be very cautious since, as illustrated by that last, the problems don't present themselves until I am in a bind and need to find something and I wind up thrashing around with pegs and searches that turn up the wrong things.

With my files in ScanSnap I know all of my 2007 BOA statements are in one place. I can confine my search to that one place to look for things from that year and that bank, or multiple years of multiple banks. If I dump all of my banks for all of the years into one big pile, I MIGHT be able to find what I'm looking for ... but I'm afraid of the downside if I can't.

So for now, I'll stick with the file structure I have in my ScanSnap manager. As I think of things I'd really want to have more access to, I'll make one of those folders a shared folder with Evernote. If I can't find what I want by searching ... nothing lost, the files will be where they should be on my computer. After all, the only reason I am using Evernote is for cross platform access. If I don't need that access, I don't really need Evernote. It would be NICE if I had sufficient features in Evernote to make it my only data repository. But folders and tags aside, the total lack of security makes it a non starter for anything sensitive.

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As I began to move things to Evernote I struggled with too many folders and not being able to find what I want

This can happen with any organizational method, even paper. If you're going to be organized, you do need to impose some restrictions. IE, decide whether you will be filing your phone bill under C for cell phone, P for phone or V for Verizon. Otherwise, you're going to potentially end up with three files for one bill. Add in your utilities, car insurance, rent/mortgage, doctors, dentist, eye doc, etc. & now you've got a filing drawer nightmare, no matter whether you're using paper, paperless with nested notebooks/folders or Evernote.

With my files in ScanSnap I know all of my 2007 BOA statements are in one place. I can confine my search to that one place to look for things from that year and that bank, or multiple years of multiple banks. If I dump all of my banks for all of the years into one big pile, I MIGHT be able to find what I'm looking for ... but I'm afraid of the downside if I can't.

Simply change the title of each note to "BOA YYYYMMDD" or "YYYYMMDD BOA" where YYYYMMDD is the closing date. If you do this, you can put all bills for every year into a single notebook & yet find your Bank of America credit card bill for January 2007 in seconds by simply searching on boa 200701. If you want to find all the BOA bills for 2008, search on boa 2008 & sort by title. They will all line up in ascending or descending order. And that's not even utilizing tags or a special notebook.

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When I said that questions would sometimes generate challenges along the lines of: "Why should you want to do that?" This is what I meant. Why is my motive questioned? I'm a USER and I want to access MY DATA in a way that I think proper for MY PURPOSE. Maybe YOU would not want that information. But so what? See what I mean?.

Well...WHY would you want to do that?

Well there you go again!

If you are trying to solve a particular problem (IE, find how much you spent on car 1 in the past 10 years or find out when you had waca waca done to car 1), then there may be a more efficient method rather than starting with your credit card bill. Asking WHY isn't necessarily challenging what you want to do. Nor, contrary to what you're interpreting/posting, does it translate to "You are stupid for wanting to do that."

At the risk of irritating you (since you said you wanted to opt out of the convo.) the question of WHY I would want to do it is irrelevant. I don't know WHY I would want to do half the things I want to do with my paper files ... until it comes up. I want AT LEAST as much flexibility to do anything I can do with a paper system. I can't predict why I might want to do something or other, I only know from past experience the kind of things I have done in the past ... and looking for a particular line item in a bank or credit card statement is something I have done in the past. I would not take that approach if a simper one had yielded the information I wanted. What you are asking is basically: "Define all possible ways you would want to access your data and show me which ones would not be possible in Evernote." I clearly can't do that. I don't KNOW all possible ways I would want to access my data. That is life. I'm completely confident that you don't either ... and you are light years ahead of me in being paperless.

The example you posted:
If I remember that I had some work done on my car around the first of the year in 2007 and I need to find it from a bank statement, searching for "car" is not going to do it for me. The listing will be "Joe's Service" ... if I'm lucky. It might be listed as "XYZ Billing services" or some such because of the way credit cards are handled. The way to find it is to scan each statement for the first months of the year letting my own brain notice such things as "car service looking names" or "amounts in the $200+ range", etc. I suppose I can search for "BOA" and "2007", that will get me all of the bank statements for that year ... but it will also get me everything else for the year 2007 and everything else where the number 2007 appears. (Unless there is some clever tag syntax that is possible but not documented. ;-) Still thinking .... I suppose that tagging "BOA" and "Statement" then searching for "2007" as well might do it in this case. But that is the kind of question that brings me here. I'm trying to replicate how my files are now set up and I've not discovered a way to do it without folders yet.

...is a disorganized way to find something & not specific to Evernote.

Well, all ways of accessing data that have not been anticipated seem disorganized. If I wanted to access the data in a way I anticipated, it would seem brilliantly organized. In the best of all possible worlds I'd have documents like: "This is what you are looking for to answer all questions about the 2007 car repair." Would that it could be so.

Back in the day when I kept all paper files, no way I'd start with my bank/credit card statement to find what work was done on a car in early 2007.

I did not say that I STARTED with the bank statement. I simply provided an illustration of how I've needed to get to data from an odd angle in the past.

I'd start with...the file specific to that vehicle.

As would I. I'd look for repair work orders if that would answer the question.

So... posting an alternative (and certainly more efficient) method would normally be considered helpful. Of course, you don't have to utilize these alternatives. But to put other users down b/c they offer them up is not helpful.

I'm not putting anyone down for offering alternatives ... only for questioning why I would want to access my own data in my own way. That is just arrogant beyond all belief. In a perfect world every bit of information would be exactly where I expect it to be organized exactly the way I would like. But this is not a perfect world. I don't always have the BEST document to answer the question I have. I have, in the past, needed to resort to secondary or tertiary sources. If I can't find the receipt from the auto shop, then I look to credit cards, even emails to get me the information I need ... depending on what that information is. I also keep a notebook of what I'm up to and I can often find the information there. Sometimes I can ask my wife if she remembers ... my strategies are endless. Sometimes nothing at all works. That's life. The system I'm considering using depends on consistent tagging of documents and/or searching on OCRed text within the scan itself. Just yesterday I was searching for a proposal to do yard work. My tags were not what I thought of when I tried to file it. Also, there was no OCRable data available ... the guy is a mower jocky and scribbled in an incomprehensible hand. I eventually dug it out of my recycle bin. (A final line of defense for possible computer problems.) I scanned the thing a second time, and then translated the scribble and typed it right onto the scanned page with Adobe's typewriter function. Now it shows up in a search. Live and learn. I can't imagine why anyone would trust their data to a system in which they are not confident. My confidence in Evernote is low. I have revised my intended use downward. The only things that now go into Evernote are those that pass the screening question: "Do I NEED to access this on my iPhone or over the web?"

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As I began to move things to Evernote I struggled with too many folders and not being able to find what I want

This can happen with any organizational method, even paper. If you're going to be organized, you do need to impose some restrictions. IE, decide whether you will be filing your phone bill under C for cell phone, P for phone or V for Verizon. Otherwise, you're going to potentially end up with three files for one bill. Add in your utilities, car insurance, rent/mortgage, doctors, dentist, eye doc, etc. & now you've got a filing drawer nightmare, no matter whether you're using paper, paperless with nested notebooks/folders or Evernote.

Precisely so. The flip side is that as I reduce the number of folders then more stuff is mixed it. That would be helped with nested folders. That is exactly what I do with my paper files. I have my bank statements, by bank, by year, by bank. It is fairly easy to find what I want.

With my files in ScanSnap I know all of my 2007 BOA statements are in one place. I can confine my search to that one place to look for things from that year and that bank, or multiple years of multiple banks. If I dump all of my banks for all of the years into one big pile, I MIGHT be able to find what I'm looking for ... but I'm afraid of the downside if I can't.

Simply change the title of each note to "BOA YYYYMMDD" or "YYYYMMDD BOA" where YYYYMMDD is the closing date. If you do this, you can put all bills for every year into a single notebook & yet find your Bank of America credit card bill for January 2007 in seconds by simply searching on boa 200701. If you want to find all the BOA bills for 2008, search on boa 2008 & sort by title. They will all line up in ascending or descending order. And that's not even utilizing tags or a special notebook.

That seems a good first line of defense. I need to consider the effects on other parts of my system. Evernote gets its files from watching my ScanSnap directories and I have to investigate any effects to the ScanSnap manager.

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Is this book worth for a 1 year old EN user? Hi, I have used EN and its subsidary apps like Penultimate, Skitch etc, tried various things of EN across various platforms, even tried the "Tags Vs Notebooks", changed it and finally found what is comfortable for me, found certain upper limitations like Note size - max.num.of.notes, Notelinks, Third party apps from the trunk and almost every day, i kind of learn something new - use as email, journal, Research, photo management, OCR.. 

 

I then came across this book, but i found it to be very pricey. 29$, even for a newbie, inspite of life long updates for the product i think is expensive. Off course, the author has a right to keep the book at what ever price he wishes, but i want to know is there something really in there, that normal users like us don't know about?

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sterlingz wrote:

I've got runaway notebook syndrome and would desperately like folders to organize them.

I had the same issue when I started with Evernote.

After reading the posts on the problems users had with dozens of notebooks, I consolidated to high-level topics and put everything into just 7 notebooks.

Easy to remember Tags, Consistent Title Formatting, Search Grammar along with a few other tweaks make it so easy to find anything in my 7,500 notes. It has made a world of difference in using Evernote.

 

I started using with TAGS, before i was getting mad at finding information. ( 90% of my information pertain to a particular topic), so i switched to Notebooks , and i find it much easier now. :) .. I think the best part of Evernote is people can work around with the system for a while to find out what suits them best.

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