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ANSWERED Can't Take it Any Longer - Migrate Out of Evernote

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11 hours ago, CalS said:
3 minutes ago, CalS said:

Duh.

  

We were discussing, with me taking the side of "not a chance" whether or not tags could replace nested folders. Some people claim they can. I and others know they cannot. I gave an example of a LONG tag that would be required as one of many to emulate a nested folder system.

In response, you said:

"If this is an actual tag you are missing the point on tags in general, independent of the specifics of EN.  Tags work best in a relational model not a hierarchical model."

I then, in response, said:

"If only I had known..."

I was actually writing on why tags WON'T work, and then you stepped in and chided me trying to make it work.

Now, before we go any farther, do you dispute what I have said so far in this post? 

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3 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Some of us need a sign

89FA8985-4895-41C6-8724-63B794C85E1B.jpeg.c4eea249f3a789c02a40b5dd93615510.jpeg

Based upon the fact he was informing me of the same thing I was informing others of--in the very post he responded to--I don't think it would have done any good. 

And, that was one of the best episodes. When Leonard held that up it was a riot! 

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@TheMagicWombat

Got it the first time.  Did not chide for trying to use tags, more about trying to replicate a folder structure with tags.  Deep compound tags are not a functional solution in my use case or view.  Again, I think relationally  not hierarchically.  Adding multiple simple tags to a note and then searching/sorting works for me.  If you think hierarchically it can be hard to fathom.  No need to go any farther.  It isn't going to get any better.

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40 minutes ago, CalS said:

Again, I think relationally  not hierarchically.  Adding multiple simple tags to a note and then searching/sorting works for me.

My general approach as well, seems to work for me, and it probably why I kinda 'got' Evernote early on. Multiple simple tags, used in combinations, tend to keep my tag 'vocabulary' down to a reasonable size. I can haz adjectives!

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1 hour ago, TheMagicWombat said:

You may not like the fact that people who are trying to prevent future losses study disasters to minimize their impact in the future, but that is you. The rest of us study when things go horribly bad so that they are not quite as bad the next time around. 

An eloquent assumption; inaccurate, but eloquent.

Learning from our mistakes, taking loss prevention measures...all great, necessary, etc. However, I think you're missing the point (and you seem like a smart person, so I'd further suggest that you're doing it intentionally so you can continue trolling), which is bringing a tragedy like 9/11 into a note-taking app's forum discussion about folder hierarchies vs. tags, which is both absurb given this environment, and insensitive - especially in wording such as "ready for the building to get nuked and fall over" - to anyone closely tied to the event that may be searching through this forum for answers about the system they use for organizing their content.

As you continue your crusade to fit a square peg in a round hole, please take the examples and inconsiderate comments about world events elsewhere.

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4 horas atrás, jefito disse:

If OneNote works well for you, that's great. I tried the OneNote importer on my Windows database a couple of years ago, and it failed miserably: notes not added, loss of notebook structure, and so on. And I wasn't too keen on their organizational structure either. It seemed as though whoever developed the importer didn't understand how Evernote's architecture works. Maybe it's improved since then, but I couldn't use the results, that's for sure.

Yeah... I agree with you: they are completely different approach to how store notes. Evernote until now is more advanced in terms of searching and sync mechanism is way better than OneNote, but, I'm trying to end the pain to some minor annoying bugs that was never solved. For exemple, yesterday I tried to logon in my Evernote account and two way factor was unable to recognize the code I put using the Google Auth software. I request a code by SMS. No response. I tried to use the backup codes. Either no response. Today, almost 12 hours later I received the dammit SMS code. So, I guess some issues in the 'authentication servers' could be the reason to delay the logon  request and send the SMS to me. But, OneNote is not perfect: the sync times are way slow (a lot slow) compared to Evernote, and this is why I will give a last chance to version 7. 

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4 horas atrás, eafpres disse:

Hey Marc--could you describe how large your data are; i.e. roughly how many notes, how many have attachments, and how the migration has worked for you regarding preserving notebooks, tags, attachments, etc?  I'm really interested in your experience as most of the time it seems people around here consider OneNote a poor substitute. (Note to all--I'm not stating a fact or attempting to be critical, but that is my rough impression after reading here for years, so if you disagree and love OneNote I'd love to hear that, but please don't light me on fire for that remark!).

Hi buddy! 

I don't have a lot of notes, the total space consumed by Evernote database is around 3GB. The most of them are text notes, in a mix of SQL scripts, source code, etc. I got around 5, 6k of individual notes.  Some of them (a minor) contains videos, photos and PDF files.

I'm still trying OneNote, since it get a huge interface revamp, and now the free version relies 100% in the cloud: there is no  (just the cache) files in your disk, so I believe that this is the reason for the very slow sync speed compared to Evernote.

The tags are migrated as a annotation in your 'new' OneNote note. In the more recent migration tool the tags are not converted in a real tag in OneNote, but the note are "tagged" with a text mark in the note itself. Microsoft have been promised that the new OneNote version that will came in a near future will have tagging like Evernote, but I don't know when this will occur. 

But, the most absence in OneNote is the ability to sort Notebook notes. It's what's bothering me the most. The mobile (Android app) suffer from sync slowness in the same way as the Desktop does, I really don't know if this is because the hotel infrastructure that sucks (I'm away in a business travel) or the sync slowness are part of the product... In a few days I will give to you a most recent feedback, and sorry for my poor english... 😉

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@MarcSant The sync is truly one of the highlights with EN, both on the search and the storage / retrieval of notes.

When on a public WiFi I nearly always first test the network speed. From experience I know what speeds I need to use specific services on my devices. If it sucks (especially at hotels), they often have a closed network available that is much better - but you will have to buy access. When traveling professionally, your company will probably be happy to pick up the bill (and have a productive employee while traveling).

 

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2 horas atrás, PinkElephant disse:

@MarcSant The sync is truly one of the highlights with EN, both on the search and the storage / retrieval of notes.

When on a public WiFi I nearly always first test the network speed. From experience I know what speeds I need to use specific services on my devices. If it sucks (especially at hotels), they often have a closed network available that is much better - but you will have to buy access. When traveling professionally, your company will probably be happy to pick up the bill (and have a productive employee while traveling).

 

@PinkElephant The problem relies in the poor infra-structure as a whole outside the main cities. Here in Brazil even the company paying the bill the internet sucks. In my home I got 300Mbps fiber link that really helps a lot. But, I'm afraid that the root cause is not the internet link but the poor sync algorithm that Microsoft has take in place. In the old OneNote version the file that contains your notes are stored in your PC, and is up to you place this file in a shared Cloud folder or not. Today, is totally based on cloud. Tomorrow I'll be in home and I will dig more into this. If the results are worst than Evernote I will abort the switch to avoid the pain. My hope is the version 7.0 fix the most annoying bugs, like Web Clipp in Simplified format that simply doesn't work in Chrome. Let's see! 

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Goodbye Evernote. It was nice knowing you, when you were a friend, but now that you're just another big business ignoring customers, I'm gone. 

 

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(exported to Apple Notes. It took about half an hour as I had to do it one notebook at a time, but a far as I can see, I lost nothing I ever really use.)

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12 hours ago, friz said:

An eloquent assumption; inaccurate, but eloquent.

Learning from our mistakes, taking loss prevention measures...all great, necessary, etc. However, I think you're missing the point (and you seem like a smart person, so I'd further suggest that you're doing it intentionally so you can continue trolling), which is bringing a tragedy like 9/11 into a note-taking app's forum discussion about folder hierarchies vs. tags, which is both absurb given this environment, and insensitive - especially in wording such as "ready for the building to get nuked and fall over" - to anyone closely tied to the event that may be searching through this forum for answers about the system they use for organizing their content.

As you continue your crusade to fit a square peg in a round hole, please take the examples and inconsiderate comments about world events elsewhere.

Wow, you REALLY think you get to tell me what to do?

ROFLMAO!!!

You need your own HBO Stand-up special!

spacer.png

 

Fact: We were not discussing note-taking--we were discussing the need for disaster preparedness. 

Fact: You cannot discuss disaster preparedness without discussing disasters.

Fact: The more extreme the disaster and the better the recovery, the more relevant the event is to the conversation. 

Fact: The companies that were prepared for ANYTHING up to and including WWIII starting in NYC were probably the best examples (or very, very good) of disaster preparedness there are. 

Fact: These forums do support an ignore feature so you don't receive my posts.

Fact: You should probably consider using that feature. 

 

Edit: WTF??? This post pushed me to Level 3??? I a now certain their Tier awards are NOT merit based!

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1 hour ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Fact: We were not discussing note-taking--we were discussing the need for disaster preparedness. 

Fact: The rest of us are discussing the Evernote service and the backup of our note data 😊

There's also a discussion of note filing methodologies; folders vs notebook/tags

>>Wrong--once you are discussing the need to for a backup, unless you are discussing it ONLY in terms of voluntary migration ...

The topic title is "Migrate out of Evernote"  😊

I'm also interested in recovery if a note gets corrupted or deleted.

Also, access to my notes if Evernote is not accessible.

edit: This post pushed me to Level 3???
          Based on # of posts? You have over 100 (most in this discussion🙂)

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4 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Fact: The rest of us are discussing the Evernote service and the backup of our note data

Wrong--once you are discussing the need to for a backup, unless you are discussing it ONLY in terms of voluntary migration--you are discussing disaster preparedness. This is reinforced by the fact we were discussing what to do if the Evernote servers dropped--of which you were part of the conversation... But, I digress.

At least, that is what it is called in the business world with companies that employ more than themselves. 

And, again, I remind you, you do not speak for everybody. You only speak for yourself. Others might voice an assent, but it is up to them to say so after they have heard what you have said. 

Remember, if I was discussing disaster preparedness, which I was, everyone talking with me was also discussing disaster preparedness.

 

 

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:massiveyawnsmiley:

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:shrug:

I always use software on the basis that it's the best I can find for the moment,  and it works for me:  but I'm always aware that products get cancelled,  standards change and systems - and companies - fail.  Keeping local backups and an eye on the market isn't 'disaster preparation' - that's just common-sense business as usual. 

I've used Evernote on that basis for 10+ years because it fits my use case and I see no reason to get Chicken Little over its imperfections.  If I ever get concerned I'll switch - and probably I'll leave my little goodbye speech here,  because at this rate it looks like the discussion will still be going on...

I seem to be running out of popcorn again - back in a couple of pages...

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tenor.gif

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@MarcSant Don’t believe it is much better in Germany: When I take the train from my home to Hamburg, I will completely loose mobile coverage on at least 2 spots during the 40min-ride. Because the trains WiFi depends on an outside mobile net, it will be of no use then.

What helps is to have the mayor notebooks used for working on - first among them the Inbox - as local copies on the iPad. I can continue working like adding information, tagging and moving items to their target notebooks. Everything will sync seamlessly when I have mobile coverage again. I have never lost or got corrupted a note by EN - no small feat when you think about it.

It is just advisable to stop syncing when knowing or expecting that the internet connection will go on and off again intermittently.

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6 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

What helps is to have the mayor notebooks used for working on - first among them the Inbox - as local copies on the iPad. ... It is just advisable to stop syncing when knowing or expecting that the internet connection will go on and off again intermittently.

I was thinking local data is an easy solution; I have full data copies on my Mac and iPad

Evernote is a cloud service, but works well offline.  
If the network is spotty,  I turn off wifi when mobile   and sync on my home network.

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Yes, and taking the big 15“ machine along is o.k. when there is a serious job on hand.

But take this week: I travelled to a convention for 3 days, and to a workshop on one. Totally suited and equipped with my iPad 10.5, no need to carry any more. 

It would really be nice if there would be a toggle in the apps settings which loads the complete database to the iPad (or even iPhone). I load several notebook locally, but it is not the same. And with half a TB of flash memory, there would be enough to hold everything, and some.

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9 minutes ago, PinkElephant said:

It is just advisable to stop syncing when knowing or expecting that the internet connection will go on and off again intermittently.

Just keep the stuff you're working on in an offline notebook, and sync before leaving.

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15 hours ago, MarcSant said:

Hi buddy! 

I don't have a lot of notes, the total space consumed by Evernote database is around 3GB. The most of them are text notes, in a mix of SQL scripts, source code, etc. I got around 5, 6k of individual notes.  Some of them (a minor) contains videos, photos and PDF files.

I'm still trying OneNote, since it get a huge interface revamp, and now the free version relies 100% in the cloud: there is no  (just the cache) files in your disk, so I believe that this is the reason for the very slow sync speed compared to Evernote.

The tags are migrated as a annotation in your 'new' OneNote note. In the more recent migration tool the tags are not converted in a real tag in OneNote, but the note are "tagged" with a text mark in the note itself. Microsoft have been promised that the new OneNote version that will came in a near future will have tagging like Evernote, but I don't know when this will occur. 

But, the most absence in OneNote is the ability to sort Notebook notes. It's what's bothering me the most. The mobile (Android app) suffer from sync slowness in the same way as the Desktop does, I really don't know if this is because the hotel infrastructure that sucks (I'm away in a business travel) or the sync slowness are part of the product... In a few days I will give to you a most recent feedback, and sorry for my poor english... 😉

Thank you for this.  I'm on the other side of the spectrum--I have over 30,000 notes, and probably 1/3 have PDFs.  In my early use of Evernote I saved PDFs to my drive and used the feature that automatically imported things from selected folders.  However, eventually I gave way to just clipping them, since it is very efficient to do so, and now I would guess the majority of my PDFs only exist in Evernote.  My main database is about 20 GB on my local drive.  Sounds like moving to OneNote would not be a net plus for me.

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3 minutos atrás, eafpres disse:

My main database is about 20 GB on my local drive.  Sounds like moving to OneNote would not be a net plus for me.

Yep! you have a huge Evernote database, that is far beyond my usage. I'm home now, and testing OneNote sync, and I will end by agreeing with many people here that OneNote is not an real competitor to Evernote. Sync problems and need to Sync again are common, even in this "fresh" version. I will do some more testing for the next days. 

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19 minutes ago, jefito said:

Just keep the stuff you're working on in an offline notebook, and sync before leaving.

The issue is not syncing into the iPad, it is working meanwhile and then syncing back.

Because the mobile sync is always on, it can suffer from starting up and then being brought down when connection is lost. My solution is going to flight mode, and switch back when I know Mobil sync will be stable, or when I am on a WiFi.

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6 hours ago, gazumped said:

:shrug:

I always use software on the basis that it's the best I can find for the moment,  and it works for me:  but I'm always aware that products get cancelled,  standards change and systems - and companies - fail.  Keeping local backups and an eye on the market isn't 'disaster preparation' - that's just common-sense business as usual. 

 

Are you really trying to tell me that if those Evernote servers got hit by a NoKo nuke you would say, "No--these backups I have are only for a minor disk failure--or software migration--I cannot use them for this because it is a disaster!*"

Be honest--you make those backups without thinking of a LIMIT on them--you make them for ANY eventuality up to and including everything major that still leaves us with some form of government and economy. 

Common sense says to make backups and store them in a separate location from the main server because common sense acknowledges that the Black Swan does not pre-announce her arrival, nor does she come in only one size.

But, I'll make you a deal, if you swear you would not use those backups if there was a disaster and they could recover your data, I'll give you a pass. 

That's all you gotta do!

 

 

*I am assuming, of course, you have HTML, or some other generic form of backups.

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14 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Be honest--you make those backups without thinking of a LIMIT on them

I don't understand your point.

I will make use of my backups if I lose access to Evernote regardless of the cause
The most likely cause will be an internet blip; nothing is ruled out - NoKo nukes, ..., no LIMIT

>>if you swear you would not use those backups if there was a disaster....I'll give you a pass. 
I don't qualify for your pass.   Why do I want your pass?

>>The full sentence would be "Backing up your data is just common sense to prepare for any form of data loss--from one corrupted record up through and including WWIII.
Works for me, although WWWIII isn't usually part of my data backup planning

>>copy at home and a copy as work

The master copy of my data is on the Evernote servers;
I have full copies on my Mac and iPad

Evernote has backups at the server
I have personal backup copies (html) on my Mac, and iCloud.  
Also Mac Time Machine backups (enml)

>>in cases disaster strikes either one of those places. 
Damn those NoKo nukes  😦

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43 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I don't understand your point

I will make use of my backups if I lose access to Evernote

regardless of the cause

The most likely cause will be an internet blip; nothing is ruled out - NoKo nukes, ..., no LIMIT

You were trying to say you weren't making your backups for "disaster preparedness" but rather because it was "common sense". 

That is a little like saying you are not putting a bandage on the wound to staunch the bleeding but because it is "commonly accepted medical practice in this situation".

Common sense actions do not sit in a vacuum. They are a result of, response to, or preparedness for, an event. In short, "common sense" is an adjective--but not truly a noun except in rare circumstances when we actually ARE discussing "common sense" itself in vacuum. Other times, we simply shorten things down and use it like a noun, e.g. "That is just common sense" but in reality, the noun is understood--similar to the way:

"Go."

Is a complete sentence despite the apparent lack of a noun. The noun, we understand, is "you". Or possibly "I". Again, we discern the noun from context. If someone had just asked, "What will you do?" we know the subject is the speaker.

The full sentence would be "Backing up your data is just common sense to prepare for any form of data loss--from one corrupted record up through and including WWIII." Therefore, your backing up of data is to prepare for data loss for a variety of reason--and as by your own statement, some of those reasons are disasters.  

Good of you to prep for all possible reasons tho--I assume you do like I do and have a copy at home and a copy as work, in cases disaster strikes either one of those places. 

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14 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Be honest--you make those backups without thinking of a LIMIT on them

"I don't understand your point"

Me neither.  I sleep under a roof (mostly) because it's comfortable.  True there's an infinitesimally small chance I could get hit by space debris if I slept in the open (it's allegedly happened to one person so far - none-seriously - in the entire recorded history of mankind) - but that's not exactly my chief reason for cuddling up to my soft toys in bed.

Most of my daily actions are to preserve or improve my status quo in the event of events up to and including Alien Invasion and the Final Acropolis but I'm not expecting any of them any time soon.

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1 hour ago, gazumped said:

"I don't understand your point"

Me neither.  I sleep under a roof (mostly) because it's comfortable.  True there's an infinitesimally small chance I could get hit by space debris if I slept in the open (it's allegedly happened to one person so far - none-seriously - in the entire recorded history of mankind) - but that's not exactly my chief reason for cuddling up to my soft toys in bed.

Most of my daily actions are to preserve or improve my status quo in the event of events up to and including Alien Invasion and the Final Acropolis but I'm not expecting any of them any time soon.

You've already acknowledged your data is safe against Evernote's demise because you have your own back-ups.

Unless this was some new concept to you that you only became aware of the possibility of Evernote failing as a company because *I* informed you of it, your backups were made prepping for that and all other eventualities which you acknowledge are within the realm of realistically feasible problems.

Do tell, you roof, is it Saran Wrap? How about a thin piece of glass?

No?

Do you, like most people have a roof that you can walk on? Probably. 

We build our homes for the purpose of protecting us from all realistically probable harm--including rain, snow, lightning, the occasional tree branch, etc, etc... 

You have been reduced to actually arguing that you would NEVER even consider protecting your data against anything major, because it is unlikely to happen. You are actually arguing that you would never even consider insuring your assets from acts of god of terrorist attack. Well, you know who DOES consider such eventualities? Your insurance company that, in all likelihood, specifically excluded acts of god and terrorist attacks from your base insurance policy, and probably wanted an increased premium to do so!

Come on--this is what you have reduced yourself to--trying to come up with a specific very unlikely event and arguing that because you have never contemplated that event, you are not backing up your data for disaster preparedness. Well, whether you intend to do so or not, the act os properly backing up your data, and keeping copies in separate locations, is disaster preparedness.

When you make a copy of your data, do you take that copy and leave it sitting on top of the computer?

No?

You move it to a separate location? Don't want to have a fire consume your HD and your back-up media, do ya?

Psst... a fire is technically a disaster when it wasn't planned and it consumed something you didn't want it to consume. Might only be a small disaster if it is a small fire, but it is still a disaster.

So, you can continue to argue you are not doing disaster preparedness, but you are going to have to make yourself look more and more foolish--or dishonest--by arguing the long list of things you are specifically not protecting against.

Also, it is a good thing you are not putting up your roof to guard against meteorites--they come THROUGH roofs. Chunks of rock sturdy enough to survive entry into our atmosphere travelling 87m/sec* tend to do that. 

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/meteorite-uruguay-break-house-how-rare

 

 

*194.61 MPH -- And since you mentioned the Ann Hodges strike, you should already have known they travel fast enough to shred virtually any roof if they are much larger than a marble, since it went through her roof and THEN struck her.   Hint: If you decide to argue you don't put up drywall to stop .50 bullets, I will applaud that decision--they have a nasty habit going through several inches of wood. 

*

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4 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

your backups were made prepping for that and all other eventualities which you acknowledge are within the realm of realistically feasible problems.

Mostly my backup data realm is recovery when I stupidly delete note contents

For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action
I can't say the same for bullets or meteorites  😮

>>When Evernote goes belly up, in all likelihood, you will find out about it by a notice that you cannot connect to the Evernote database, and asking if you would like to work offline. 

Offline works for me.  Gives me time to export my data on my Mac

>>But you DO make them knowing they guard against other events, correct?

Correct

>>Based upon the fact that the majority of privately held companies give NO advance notice of closing up shop, what is it that makes you confident? 

Already answered above.  I have a full data copy on my Mac and can work offline for a simple export process

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25 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Mostly my backup plans realm is recovery when I stupidly delete note contents

For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action

1. But you DO make them knowing they guard against other events, correct?

2. Don't be so confident. Privately held companies have a nasty habit of not announcing they are going bankrupt because they are usually hoping that some planned "Hail Mary" play will save them. Look to the Montgomery Ward bankruptcy as a textbook (literally) example. Companies do NOT announce faltering fortunes because to do so speeds up the process (executives lose their paychecks sooner) and pretty much guarantees the company's death. Usually, as a company is winding down, management is stripping as much out of the company as possible while surreptitiously looking for employment elsewhere. If you look at how bankruptcies happen in the service and retail sectors, consumer rarely get any advance notice. 

In fact, that is why Sunday is the most ideal day for companies to file for Bankruptcy...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2002/08/why-do-companies-always-file-for-bankruptcy-on-sundays.html

Your confidence runs contrary to reality....

When Evernote goes belly up, in all likelihood, you will find out about it by a notice that you cannot connect to the Evernote database, and asking if you would like to work offline. 

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17 minutes ago, gazumped said:

Since we're trading links,  try this one - https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/lets-argue-semantics

Nice diversion attempt. The reality of this debate is I post the way things are, you try to find an exception to prove it doesn't apply to you (which is semantics on YOUR part), and then I steer us back to the way the rest of the world--and your own past-posts--view the subject. 

 

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Hey gaz, DTLow -- my advice to you is to give up. This is no-win territory. If your backup plans suffice for yourselves, then that should be the end of it. The Wombot doesn't actually care about anything except showing off, they just need you to respond so they can spew some more. Think flame and oxygen:: the latter feeds the former. You don't need their approval for what you do; your cred in these forums is in good stead as far as I'm concerned; the number of people you've helped to use Evernote better is a testament to that; but this is one person who isn't interested in being helped. Walking away doesn't mean you've lost anything meaningful; continuing will never win you anything. (Metaphoric) morale of the story (attributed to many): "Never mud-wrestle with a pig. You’ll both get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it!". 

Just my advice, your choice.

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1 hour ago, jefito said:

my advice to you is to give up. This is no-win territory.

But .... this is my recreation; better than TV.....more popcorn @gazumped

I agree it's no-win

I like the pig quote

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52 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

and then I steer us back to the way the rest of the world--and your own past-posts--view the subject

Yes, you are truly doing the lord's work here - thank you for everything. 🙄

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

But .... this is my recreation; better than TV.....more popcorn @gazumped

Oh, I understand the appeal, but geez, it's just that there's no challenge to it. You can be well-reasoned, snarky, toss their own specious quotes back at them, whatever; same result. I guess it's worn too thin for me. But rock on -- I'm not telling you what to do. And the Ignore button is my friend.

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4 hours ago, DTLow said:

Mostly my backup data realm is recovery when I stupidly delete note contents

For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action

Based upon the fact that the majority of privately held companies give NO advance notice of closing up shop, what is it that makes you confident? 

I mean, once it is apparent to Evernote that they are closing up shop, it is in their best interests to keep everyone else in the dark up to the moment they pull the plug. 

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3 hours ago, friz said:

Yes, you are truly doing the lord's work here - thank you for everything. 🙄

Not the lord's work--my work. When I say something, and someone else "corrects" me with incorrect information, there is no way I am allowing that to happen. 

If I make a mistake, and it does happen, you pile on all you want--that is the price for being wrong. but to correct me with incorrect information or statements? Nope, that won't slide by. 

Look all the trite insults I let slide by. I don't know any of you people, so, frankly, I care as little about your opinions of me as you do my opinions of you. But when when someone tries to correct me with mis-information? Nope, not going to happen.   

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5 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I have a full data copy on my Mac and can function in offline mode; it's a simple export process.

No. Your exact quote was, 

"For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action

Again, in direct response to your assertion you would have advance notice of Evernote's demise, I am asking you specifically:

Based upon the fact that the majority of privately held companies give NO advance notice of closing up shop, what is it that makes you confident? 

That is what I am asking. Nothing more, nothing less. No questions as to whether or not you think you will fine when they pull the plug--just, what is it that makes you think they will tell the world--or you specifically--that they are about to pull the plug. 

Now, if you want to say you mis-spoke, that is fine. Just do so. But if you did not, I would sure like to know what gives you such confidence. 

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25 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Not the lord's work--my work. When I say something, and someone else "corrects" me with incorrect information, there is no way I am allowing that to happen. 

If I make a mistake, and it does happen, you pile on all you want--that is the price for being wrong. but to correct me with incorrect information or statements? Nope, that won't slide by. 

Look all the trite insults I let slide by. I don't know any of you people, so, frankly, I care as little about your opinions of me as you do my opinions of you. But when when someone tries to correct me with mis-information? Nope, not going to happen.   

I'm sorry, but the first word in the second sentence of your second paragraph, should have been capitalized. Therefore everything you have said prior to that is suspect and I choose to disregard it. 

Next!

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28 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

I care as little about your opinions of me as you do my opinions of you.

Don't forget your opinions about Evernote - most of us don't care about those at this point, either.

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10 minutes ago, dbvirago said:

I'm sorry, but the first word in the second sentence of your second paragraph, should have been capitalized. Therefore everything you have said prior to that is suspect and I choose to disregard it. 

Next!

Such is your right!

And, it is probably totally in line with all of your other decisions--ignore what you don't like because you don't like HOW the message was delivered. Who would I be to expect you to change?

 

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At least this thread was correctly named, I can't take it any more - Migrate out of an endless, pointless, rambling diatribe over semantics with nothing of any interest in several pages. 

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9 minutes ago, friz said:

Don't forget your opinions about Evernote - most of us don't care about those at this point, either.

You act as if I have not already acknowledged that several times over.

Do tell, did you READ this thread before jumping into it? 

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1 minute ago, dbvirago said:

At least this thread was correctly named, I can't take it any more - Migrate out of an endless, pointless, rambling diatribe over semantics with nothing of any interest in several pages. 

An yet here you are, participating...

"The lad doth protest too much, methinks"

That is a paraphrase from Shakespeare. He is a famous English playwright. Here is some information on him:

https://www.britannica.com/biography/William-Shakespeare 

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26 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Such is your right!

And, it is probably totally in line with all of your other decisions--ignore what you don't like because you don't like HOW the message was delivered. Who would I be to expect you to change?

 

No, I ignore what I don't like because I don't like it. Take cauliflower for instance. I don't like it, so I ignore it. Doesn't matter how it is presented. Have seen where they make it look like mashed potatoes or cheese doodles? I just ignore it.

But then, I would think a person who can't capitalize correctly to understand the subtle nuances of cruciferous vegetables. 

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26 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

An yet here you are, participating...

"The lad doth protest too much, methinks"

That is a paraphrase from Shakespeare. He is a famous English playwright. Here is some information on him:

https://www.britannica.com/biography/William-Shakespeare 

Shakespeare was a hack. Only reason his work has stuck around so much is so that people given to pedantic sesquipedalian loquaciousness somebody to quote. Usually incorrectly.

He probably liked cauliflower.

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32 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

You act as if I have not already acknowledged that several times over.

Nevertheless, he persisted.

 

32 minutes ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Do tell, did you READ this thread before jumping into it? 

You mean all the way from back when it had at least some relevance? Yes. Those were good times.

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6 hours ago, dbvirago said:

No, I ignore what I don't like because I don't like it. Take cauliflower for instance. I don't like it, so I ignore it. Doesn't matter how it is presented. Have seen where they make it look like mashed potatoes or cheese doodles? I just ignore it.

But then, I would think a person who can't capitalize correctly to understand the subtle nuances of cruciferous vegetables. 

I leave you to your beliefs.

It is a free country, after all. 

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6 hours ago, friz said:

Nevertheless, he persisted.

 

You mean all the way from back when it had at least some relevance? Yes. Those were good times.

Why do you expect ME to walk away, when you just walked up?

Is that something that happens in real life a lot, and you have grown accustomed to it? 

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7 hours ago, dbvirago said:

Shakespeare was a hack. Only reason his work has stuck around so much is so that people given to pedantic sesquipedalian loquaciousness somebody to quote. Usually incorrectly.

He probably liked cauliflower.

Actually, in truth, Shakespeare said things very plainly for plays at the time. He used the common language of the common man for most of his metaphors. It is the drifting of the language over time that no makes his text seem haughty. Take for example, "Why, she's neither fish nor flesh; a man knows not where to have her." Of course the audience laughs when Flastaff says that, and then laughs harder when the hostess retorts: "Thou art an unjust man in saying so. Thou or any man knows where to have me, thou knave, thou."

I mean, what BETTER way to have Falstaff describe her as a cross between ***** (a woman who has ***** for money)  and ***** (a woman who does not charge for it but does it almost as often)? And he does it by taking the common (at that time) phrase "“neither fish, nor flesh, nor good red herring" and turning it into sexual innuendo!

No wonder the rabble loved Shakespeare's plays--he spoke THEIR language. 

Or, "melancholy as a moor ditch"? Is there anything MORE melancholy than a moor ditch? No, of course not. And the rabble loved the fact Shakespeare was bringing in toilet humor that they recognized!

And, of course, my personal favorite--Titus Andronicus--the main course at the dinner party? Oh my god! Roman generals, power struggles, and then unknowing cannibalism of one's own offspring! Shakespeare was Monty Python's Holy Grail, Benny Hill, and Hammer Horror Films all rolled in to one!

*Stupid Evernote obscenity filters!

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9 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Based upon the fact that the majority of privately held companies give NO advance notice of closing up shop, what is it that makes you confident? 

My confidence is based on the Evernote apps installed on our Mac/Windows machines;
and the full copy of data stored locally.

This software functions well in offline mode, and we set the schedule to cease using the product

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An advantage of keeping your own backup of Evernote is, when you move a note from one notebook to another, the note history doesn't come with it, and is therefore no longer available to you. Evernote will NOT restore this note history, even if you undo the move. But, if that note history was important, you could restore (or extract) from your backup of the local EN database.

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18 hours ago, John in Michigan USA said:

An advantage of keeping your own backup of Evernote is, when you move a note from one notebook to another, the note history doesn't comwith it, and is therefore no longer available to you. ...I haven't tried exporting a note, or saving it in enml, but I doubt either of those formats keep note history.

Importing a note from backups creates a new note with no history

Evernote's backups include Note Historyenex format113490232_ScreenShot2019-06-09at04_48_38.png.d7778c7c8e26c2f10f382a0628f590ba.png
- the history is not impacted by notebook changes
- the history can not be accessed if the note is deleted/expunged

My Mac runs Time Machine backups; enml format

I run daily incremental backups (my note history); html format
1791468239_ScreenShot2019-06-09at08_40_27.png.f87ee27729552c69a8211c3574ddd348.png

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23 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Shakespeare. He is a famous English playwright.

Shakespeare was once a composer of well known plays and literature.

These days, he's just decomposing

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17 hours ago, DTLow said:

My confidence is based on the Evernote apps installed on our Mac/Windows machines;
and the full copy of data stored locally.

This software functions well in offline mode, and we set the schedule to cease using the product

You are avoiding the question--again.

You said:

"For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action"

I have asked you TWICE before what is it that makes you confident you will have advance notice. BOTH times you have answered that you won't be affected if the servers drop.

I even gave you the opportunity last time to simply man up and admit you mis-spoke, and you have nothing to base your "confidence" on. 

You opted to not take it.

So, for the THIRD time--what is it that gives you, as per your own words, "advance notice"?

 

 

 

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On my Surface Pro 6 I can not edit any notes using the on-screen keyboard.

Yet the on-screen keyboard works with new Notes.

I have had the same problem with my Surface Pro 4 for the last 4 years.

It seems Evernote are not bothering to support non - keyboard devices for its Windows App. 

Goodbye Evernote, its been a good 7 years but now I am going to have to move on.

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13 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

BOTH times you have answered that you won't be affected if the servers drop.

I made no such claim; of course we're all impacted when the servers drop

The apps function in offline mode, but there is no data syncing, no server functions

>>So, for the THIRD time--what is it that gives you, as per your own words, "advance notice"?

The Evernote app is installed on my Mac; it will continue to function until I terminate it. Before "it's demise", I will take appropriate action.

Déjà vu - my ECCO Pro experience  RIP  I kept that going for years before I pulled the plug

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3 hours ago, DTLow said:

I made no such claim; of course we're all impacted when the servers drop

The apps function in offline mode, but there is no data syncing, no server functions

>>So, for the THIRD time--what is it that gives you, as per your own words, "advance notice"?

The Evernote app is installed on my Mac; it will continue to function until I terminate it. Before "it's demise", I will take appropriate action.

Déjà vu - my ECCO Pro experience  RIP

For the FOURTH time:

"For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action"

WHAT is it that makes you think you will have advance notice?

 

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Shall we see if we can get this thread locked? It's become incredibly dumb and repetitive.

As my old granny used to say "if you haven't got anything useful to say, then **** off away wit ya, ya useless $*** **** *****".

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On 6/9/2019 at 7:08 AM, DTLow said:

Importing a note from backups creates a new note with no history

Evernote's backups include Note Historyenex format
- the history is not impacted by notebook changes
- the history can not be accessed if the note is deleted/expunged

[ snip ]

Thank you for all that detail. My thoughts:

In EN for Windows, restoring the database files themselves (everything under C:\Users\<userid>\Evernote\Databases) does preserve note history, it restores the database to exactly where it was when the backup was made. Can restore to a temp location and tell EN client to use that location while you restore what is needed.

I looked quickly at the enex format spec and didn't see anything about history. Are you saying the enex format preserves note history? Good to know.

Also, I just re-ran a test that I haven't done since Jan 2017. Turns out EN for Windows does preserve note history after you move the note to a different notebook. Great news! I wonder when that changed? Will it change back? Anyways, thanks for pointing that out.

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55 minutes ago, John in Michigan USA said:

I looked quickly at the enex format spec and didn't see anything about history. Are you saying the enex format preserves note history? Good to know.

It does not. The ENML format (also used in .enex files) encodes a note, but note history is outside of your note database. Almost certainly, your note history consists of snapshots of changed notes (which are likely also preserved in also encoded in ENML. format, though it's possible they are encoded as diffs from the previous version). Since a note has a UID, a note and its snapshots can all be tied together

Quote

In EN for Windows, restoring the database files themselves (everything under C:\Users\<userid>\Evernote\Databases) does preserve note history, it restores the database to exactly where it was when the backup was made. Can restore to a temp location and tell EN client to use that location while you restore what is needed.

This is not note history, it's just a snapshot of the latest iteration your notes database. As far as I know, note history is stored in the Evernote servers, and I'd guess that that's where the snapshots are taken, too. It'd be a lot to need to synchronize notes and note histories;  simpler to just let the server do it when a note is synced, or periodically snapshot changed notes You need to go through the Evernote web site to get to old versions of your notes.

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6 hours ago, Metrodon said:

Shall we see if we can get this thread locked? It's become incredibly dumb and repetitive.

As my old granny used to say "if you haven't got anything useful to say, then **** off away wit ya, ya useless $*** **** *****".

Fact: If you are not enjoying a TV show, you can change the channel.

Fact: The majority of posts in here are dealing with the nuances of archiving, restoring, and moving Evernote records. 

Fact: A lot of people have commented on how entertaining this thread is to them.

Fact: Your granny had a sense of humor--you do not. 

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A troll who loves facts and can't help telling everyone else all of them all of the time, just what we all really wanted.

Shouldn't you be off researching some DR and nested folder thing so the rest of us can go back to some semblance of useful conversation?

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On 6/6/2019 at 6:35 PM, friz said:

Can we not shut this thread down at this point? Things have gone from pointless to obnoxious, and now it's reached tasteless, throwing 9/11 in as an example of airtight IT disaster recovery practices.

 

7 hours ago, Metrodon said:

Shall we see if we can get this thread locked? It's become incredibly dumb and repetitive.

As my old granny used to say "if you haven't got anything useful to say, then **** off away wit ya, ya useless $*** **** *****".

Probably best bet is to contact @Shane D. directly. Any user should be able to report specific posts as well; it's at the top right of each post.

Edit: Forum Code of Conduct, for reference...

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3 hours ago, John in Michigan USA said:

I looked quickly at the enex format spec and didn't see anything about history. Are you saying the enex format preserves note history? Good to know.

Note history is just a process of accessing incremental backups and retrieving all the records for a specific note.  This is not format specific; enex, enml, html works

enex is the format used for export/import
In addition to the note's enml code, it includes metadata and file attachments

enml is Evernote's format for note contents.  It's an html fork; basic html with some extra elements.
Here is an example
                   841194817_ScreenShot2019-06-10at07_28_45.png.6b0f149b416ddbc296d3ceeba027a82a.png420068587_ScreenShot2019-06-10at07_26_54.png.3b43630e0e7a2947b7a3e726204f8d2c.png

 

>>Can restore to a temp location and tell EN client to use that location while you restore what is needed.

Copying the raw database files is another form of backup
This is a snapshot of your notes at a specific time

When you're working with that temp location, and "restore what is needed", this will possibly require an export/import.
At this point, you will be creating new notes and losing access to note history

 

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42 minutes ago, Metrodon said:

A troll who loves facts and can't help telling everyone else all of them all of the time, just what we all really wanted.

Shouldn't you be off researching some DR and nested folder thing so the rest of us can go back to some semblance of useful conversation?

I never thought I would see the day when people openly argued that facts were a bad thing and hating them is a good thing....

Oh, BTW: You are free to engage in whatever conversation you wish. You have chosen to engage in this one. 

Worse, instead of engaging in the conversation in this thread about archiving, migrating, and porting, you have decided to jump into a side-conversation you claim to hate, and participate in it without adding anything constructive. 

 

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9 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

For the FOURTH time:

"For Evernote's demise, I'm confident we'll have advance notice and can take appropriate action"

WHAT is it that makes you think you will have advance notice?

 

I think if you ask him a fifth time, he will finally succumb to your superior debate skills and give you what you seek.

 

OTH, he may not give a $#!+

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2 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Fact: If you are not enjoying a TV show note-taking app, you can change the channel to a different one.

 

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Maybe we should move this thread now to the voting section, to vote having it closed ...

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Well, for the last 5 days I'm testing the process to import the Evernote notes into Microsoft OneNote. For those that are interested in discover the process, I will list the positive and negative points, that I discovered among this time:

Pros: 

  • The OneNote importer works only with the Evernote Win32 version: the Metro version is not supported. 
  • In case of Metro Version is not available you can export the notes and import them, as the same Way.
  • Notes format are almost the same as Evernote Original 

Cons:

  • OneNote Sync Mechanism are VERY slow compared to Evernote: even with an fast and reliable internet connection the sync process to just one Notebook could take a lot of time to sync to the device.
  • Sometimes OneNote just stop to try sync the note and you'll need to start over again, sometimes 2, 3 times depending on the Notebook size
  • There is no oficial tool that allow you to export notes from OneNote
  • There is no tag system like Evernote: Tags are on very preliminar version
  • You can't sort notes inside the notebook like you do in Evernote: you can just drag them to the position that you want to. If you use an outdated OneNote version, you can install a third-party tool that make this, but these outdated versions will not receive any improvement from Microsoft since they are treated as "depreciated" products. 
  • Mobile OneNote version has the same poor sync speed. 

So, I'm keeping the Evernote and not shifting anymore to OneNote, so, my hope is in Evernote 7.0 version

 

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6 hours ago, dbvirago said:

I think if you ask him a fifth time, he will finally succumb to your superior debate skills and give you what you seek.

 

OTH, he may not give a $#!+

OH! I am SHOCKED you have such a poor opinion of him! He made a statement, and I am certain he has a totally justifiable basis for his belief that Evernote will slice its own throat by ignoring the advice of its bankruptcy attorneys and will give us all advance warning it will file for Bankruptcy. 

Surely you don't believe he made that statement from the gut and without factual basis!

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6 hours ago, friz said:

If you are not enjoying a note-taking app, you can change to a different one.

True, but irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Unlike a television show, which is idle entertainment consumption, a records database* requires you to pretty much commit to it because time spent working on one precludes you form working on the other. Since entertainment is designed to fill empty time, you can watch multiple shows. However, with work, there are usually a limited amount of hours per week one can spend on such, and thus opting into one product often precludes you form working on another. Thus, it is valuable to investigate the competing products and learn what you can about them, and this includes back and forth debate by various users. 

I will grant you that said debate over the merits and failings of a product really upset the fanboys, but that is their problem. 

 

*Calling Evernote a "note taking app" is accurate, technically. However, it is a little like calling Word a "keystroke recorder". Evernote is more than you just jotting down your notes--it is also a way of recording and organizing a vast amount of information created by other people. Indeed, the vast majority of my records are not notes at all, since I did not write anything into them.

 

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3 hours ago, MarcSant said:

Well, for the last 5 days I'm testing the process to import the Evernote notes into Microsoft OneNote. For those that are interested in discover the process, I will list the positive and negative points, that I discovered among this time:

Pros: 

  • The OneNote importer works only with the Evernote Win32 version: the Metro version is not supported. 
  • In case of Metro Version is not available you can export the notes and import them, as the same Way.
  • Notes format are almost the same as Evernote Original 

Cons:

  • OneNote Sync Mechanism are VERY slow compared to Evernote: even with an fast and reliable internet connection the sync process to just one Notebook could take a lot of time to sync to the device.
  • Sometimes OneNote just stop to try sync the note and you'll need to start over again, sometimes 2, 3 times depending on the Notebook size
  • There is no oficial tool that allow you to export notes from OneNote
  • There is no tag system like Evernote: Tags are on very preliminar version
  • You can't sort notes inside the notebook like you do in Evernote: you can just drag them to the position that you want to. If you use an outdated OneNote version, you can install a third-party tool that make this, but these outdated versions will not receive any improvement from Microsoft since they are treated as "depreciated" products. 
  • Mobile OneNote version has the same poor sync speed. 

So, I'm keeping the Evernote and not shifting anymore to OneNote, so, my hope is in Evernote 7.0 version

 

OneNote is horrible!

I looked at it for 5 minutes and realized it was to Evernote what Notepad is to Word.

Having said that, Notion does have my interest. Its web clipper SUCKS compared to Evernote, but it does everything else as good, or better, than Evernote. Right now I am working on a massive home remodeling project, and thus don't have much desire to play with migrating over. And, the problem isn't that the migration is difficult--Notion makes it dirt simple. The problem is than Notion is to Evernote as Word is to Notepad--Notion does a lot of things and has a lot of options for how to set up and "type" each individual folder. That means I want to study it and think a bit before I pull the trigger.

By analogy, Notion will copy my floor-plan I currently have over to the new location, but it will also allow me to radically change the floor-plan to include sunken indoor swimming pools, elevators, automated kitchens, etc, etc... Truth be told, I might not need, or have use for, a lot of its features, but I'd like to dig a bit before I take the plunge.

However, having said that, the solution I will leaning towards is to use Evernote's web clipper to pull in web pages, and then import then over to Notion for hierarchical storage and retrieval.  

Should Notion get a good web clipper, or Evernote get nested folders, that equation changes. 

Oh, for how bad the Notion web clipper is--it sucks as hard as OneNote's. It is simply not usable. 

Yet.

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6 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

He made a statement, and I am certain he has a totally justifiable basis for his belief that Evernote will slice its own throat by ignoring the advice of its bankruptcy attorneys and will give us all advance warning it will file for Bankruptcy. 

I made no such statement, and have no belief or knowledge of Evernote, bankruptcy, and attorneys.  I suspect none of this is based on any facts

I am a user of the Evernote service; with apps on my Mac and iPad.  The Mac has a full copy of my data by default, and on my iPad I opted for a full set of offline notebooks

>>So, for the THIRD time--what is it that gives you, as per your own words, "advance notice"?
>>For the FOURTH time: ...WHAT is it that makes you think you will have advance notice?
>>For the FIFTH time, what is it that makes you think we will have advance notice???

Same answer - The apps function in offline mode, and will continue to provide access to our data

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4 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

OH! I am SHOCKED you have such a poor opinion of him! 

I am requesting the forum not respond to this latest bait.

I'm comfortable with my standing in the community and we don't need this discussion cluttered with more non-relevant posts.

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6 minutes ago, DTLow said:

and we don't this discussion cluttered with more non-relevant posts.

We don't need this discussion period.  If you stop engaging, as others have suggested, maybe it will die on the vine.

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3 hours ago, DTLow said:

I made no such statement, and have no belief or knowledge of Evernote, bankruptcy, and attorneys.  I suspect none of this is based on any facts

image.thumb.png.05ccec36c6036beb7a1faa0c33cc525c.png

For the FIFTH time, what is it that makes you think we will have advance notice???

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Hi All,

I do my best to limit any censoring of content, but unfortunately, this thread seems to have run off the rails from it's original topic quite a bit.

In this case, I'm going to lock the thread.

I'll leave it open to still be viewed as I am sure there is some good, relevant information here.

I'm not going to point any fingers, but please refrain from taking a thread off-topic, and keep any personal discussions in the direct messages.

I'd prefer to not have to take any restrictive actions.

Feel free to reach out to me directly if you have any other questions!

 

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