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Can't Take it Any Longer - Migrate Out of Evernote

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On 3/11/2019 at 6:43 PM, TheMagicWombat said:

why even have flat-layer notebooks?

Notebooks have an important function in Evernote;
to identify notes as

  • Private/Shared
  • Sync/Local
  • Offline
  • Default  Notebook

I currently use 11 notebooks in my installation; it varies with shared projects

>>... nested folders ... hierarchical storage ...152552875_ScreenShot2019-03-12at01_26_52.png.f2e3713f3bcb9000f0b8c23b1ad18f72.png

Folders are a legacy filing methodology used by some platforms; not used by Evernote
The OS on my Mac uses folders to store Evernote's files.

Folders can be simulated using the Tags feature, and the Tag Tree in the sidebar.  It includes hierarchy for nesting.

>>My information is not stored in a logical fashion, it cannot be stored in a logical fashion, and as a result, I actually hesitate to use Evernote.

You're free to use whatever service you choose.

I choose to use Evernote, I make sure my data is stored in a "logical fashion"

>>The owners are religious fanatics about nested folders being the Devil's work.  ...

I know nothing of the owner's religion and it has no impact on my Evernote use.

It's true that Evernote has no support for folders.
Instead, we have the use of two metadata fields Notebook/Tags and an extensive search feature.

See above for simulating folders using the tag tree in the sidebar.

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

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21 hours ago, Michael Singer said:

No, at least I don't know of any official forum. As far as I can see, at the moment there is only communication via Twitter.
https://twitter.com/NotionHQ

For information about development and what's coming up, go to the footer of their website, where you will find under "Products" the menu item "Whats new".
https://www.notion.so

You a notion employee?

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19 hours ago, PinkElephant said:

Sometimes I wonder whether I still do not have a critical mass of notes (2.700 at last count) 

41,000 plus notes, no performance issues.  Could be use case related, hardware, other software, who knows, but I just don't have the performance issues others do.  I have a lot of inertia, too many notes and work flows to want to consider alternatives.  I learned long ago that a search for perfection is just that, a search.  Should things go south for my use case in EN, I will do something.  But in the meantime, juice not worth the squeeze with all these alternatives.

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Personally I think we do not have a problem of too few opportunities, we have a problem of choice and trust into ourselves.

Any decision is at the same time a non-decision: If I choose Evernote, I un-choose Notion etc. and vice versa.

For me I try to take informed choices, take the decision, but then I stick to it. Every day there will be a new opportunity, a better offer, a new gadget, but it is the road to insanity to ask yourself the same question over and over again.

Or as the proverb says: Other mothers may have beautiful daughters as well ...

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About 4000 notes here with several hundred inclusive of PDF's or images, maybe 15% of all notes.

On a Windows 7 laptop - seldom any performance issues, most are due other processes on the PC.

On a Windows 10 desktop - as above.

On my two year old Android phone with its'  Snapdragon 820 and 4GB RAM - the only time I see a pause, and it is a pause of up to 5 seconds sometimes though not always that long but always a pause, is with one note that has a PNG image in it at the top of the note and when I add a comment below the image and tap on the "edit" button I get the pause.

The text formatting is a PITA at times but I've learned how to deal with it on the desktop where most of my large data inputs are made.

Works really well for me. Especially when I go offline into remote areas and I can still access ALL my technical docs.

 

 

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I have ~ 22000 notes, about 50% of them with one or more attachments. Performance problems on windows started about 2 years ago. Contact with support as well as following the forums did not resolve the issue permanently.

Reindexing the database makes it slightly better - for a few days. Not gonna reindex once a week.

Removing and reinstalling (and redownloading all the data) makes it much better -  for a week or 2. Not gonna reinstall twice a month.

Moving the db to ssd (as someone suggested in the forums) did not make a difference. Moving it back to hd because someone else said that was not a good idea to host it on ssd did not make a difference either.

Hardware is 3 years old, i7 with 4GHz and 8 GB RAM, harddisk has more than 50% free space, no problems with gaming (eg cities skylines which is a known to be huge ressource eater) and video rendering. 

It's frustrating. 

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17 minutes ago, chronistin said:

I have ~ 22000 notes, about 50% of them with one or more attachments. Performance problems on windows started about 2 years ago. Contact with support as well as following the forums did not resolve the issue permanently.

Reindexing the database makes it slightly better - for a few days. Not gonna reindex once a week.

Removing and reinstalling (and redownloading all the data) makes it much better -  for a week or 2. Not gonna reinstall twice a month.

Moving the db to ssd (as someone suggested in the forums) did not make a difference. Moving it back to hd because someone else said that was not a good idea to host it on ssd did not make a difference either.

Hardware is 3 years old, i7 with 4GHz and 8 GB RAM, harddisk has more than 50% free space, no problems with gaming (eg cities skylines which is a known to be huge ressource eater) and video rendering. 

It's frustrating. 

Pretty much my identical scenario, except I have 27,000 + notes, and many thousands have PDFs attached.  Several open tickets for "not responding" issue with the usual rebuild dB, change settings, etc.  Nothing worked.

I'm currently using 6.16.4.8094 (308094) Public (CE Build ce-58.1.6897) which is the best I've had in a year or more, and I have refused the last several updates, afraid to try them.  There are a few bugs in this version but it seems stable and doesn't hang as much as earlier "bad" versions.

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On 8/27/2018 at 9:27 PM, jefito said:

Hey, if people want to have a public Evernote swan song, then fine -- I have no problem with that (though I'll confess to being amused by the "gimme nested notebooks by next Tuesday or I'm cutting the cord!" type posts you see occasionally). If people legitimately want bugs and feature requests (which are entirely fair) to be noticed by someone who might actually do something about them or comment with some authority, and not get lost in any drama and side-commentary, then it's probably better to post them appropriately. *shrug*

Especially since Nested Notebooks have been a top request for over a decade now, and Evernote has told us where to go with that request. 

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43 minutes ago, chronistin said:

I have ~ 22000 notes, about 50% of them with one or more attachments. Performance problems on windows started about 2 years ago. Contact with support as well as following the forums did not resolve the issue permanently.

Reindexing the database makes it slightly better - for a few days. Not gonna reindex once a week.

Removing and reinstalling (and redownloading all the data) makes it much better -  for a week or 2. Not gonna reinstall twice a month.

Moving the db to ssd (as someone suggested in the forums) did not make a difference. Moving it back to hd because someone else said that was not a good idea to host it on ssd did not make a difference either.

Hardware is 3 years old, i7 with 4GHz and 8 GB RAM, harddisk has more than 50% free space, no problems with gaming (eg cities skylines which is a known to be huge ressource eater) and video rendering. 

It's frustrating. 

I can see how it would be.  Of my notes 21,451 contain PDFs.  Data base is 20 GB.  Hardware is 6+ years old, 2.6 GHz, 8 GB RAM Lenovo X230 with SSD used in a docking station.  Running Windows 10 Pro, 1809.  SSD solved any performance issues I had back when.  Feeling fortunate I suppose.  Don't know what the secret sauce is...

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13 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

The tags people don't get it, and they never will. They think their way is superior. 

*yawn* The so-called "tags" people get it just fine. The nested notebooks discussion has been well and truly hashed out over here already. The tags people, being possessed of a practical nature, don't care; they ask the question (as should we all): can I use this software as it is? If the answer is "yes", great, if not then the answer is "find something else". Nobody's saying anything about metaphysical superiority; rather, it's whether it works better than other available systems to me workflows. Oh, and by the way, none of this means that tags people might not see a use for nested notebooks; it's just a value judgement that Evernote works better than other solutions (which may also offer nested containers).

13 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

My information is not stored in a logical fashion, it cannot be stored in a logical fashion

Funny, mine is, using mostly tags. There's nothing at all illogical about using tags to categorize your data. It might not suit your purposes to do so, but that doesn't make it ipso facto illogical. It's just different, which you know already, but don't seem to be able to accept. It's like calling chocolate illogical. Or colors.

Quote

we want yadda yadda

I don't know who the "we" is that you refer to. "We" here are all Evernote users (or ex-users). I don't think that you speak for all of us.

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18 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

then why did Evernote permit the creation of more than a single collection box notebook?

Helps with searches.

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18 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

If tags are so great, why even have flat-later notebooks? If organizing data into various categories for storage wasn't important. then why did Evernote permit the creation of more than a single collection box notebook? My not just tag the Hell out of everything and skip the whole multiple flat-layer notebooks?

Notebooks are used to partition your note database into discrete sets of notes. Tags let you categorize across those partitions. I find notebooks useful for sharing a set of notes to a different account (I have two: one for work and one for personal) , for designating a set of notes as local-only (stored on my desktop only), or for designating a set of notes for offline use on a mobile device (i.e., always cached on the device). Amazingly enough, my narrow tag-focused brain is able to handle the distinction just fine.

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1 hour ago, CalS said:

I can see how it would be.  Of my notes 21,451 contain PDFs.  Data base is 20 GB.  Hardware is 6+ years old, 2.6 GHz, 8 GB RAM Lenovo X230 with SSD used in a docking station.  Running Windows 10 Pro, 1809.  SSD solved any performance issues I had back when.  Feeling fortunate I suppose.  Don't know what the secret sauce is...

I have been working towards getting a memory and SSD upgrade for my laptop; maybe soonish.  I hope it helps, but even if not, I want it for other reasons.  I'm actually pretty happy with the version I'm running; it's almost as if everyone needs to find their own sweet spot and just stay put, ignore the updates for as long as possible, etc.

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For me, notebooks are organizational: Import new content here, sync this into the cloud, but that not, share this content, make that group of information available offline etc.

Tags are logic: Relate this bit of information together with those X others, when search will not do it. Or show me that on searching for „open“ notes because when filing it I still regard it as „unfinished“ in some aspect etc. From a practical view Tags work like multidimensional folders („notebooks“). And surprise: Tags can be nested, whoever feels that world peace depends on this humble feature.

That is how it works for me. I even jump between organizing the same information for some time by tag, then by notebook, and later by tag again.

Example: As a habit, I collect a lot of information about possible or desired future travel. As long a I prepare for a trip, it is tagged (Travel_Spain) and not separated from other notes. Before I leave, I create a Notebook „Andalusia 2019“ and set it „offline“ for my i-devices. During the trip, additional information will go there. When I am back, I will tag everything „Andalusia2019“, move the tagged notes into an archive notebook and erase the travel notebook. As I said before: Notebooks are about organisation, tags are about logic.

If somebody can not find / define his personal way to organize and retrieve information in EN, there is a simple solution: Stop paying and leave.

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19 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

 

Evernote is everything I want--except for nested notebooks. To me, doing a Boolean/tag search to find my records every time I want to find them just doesn't work. My information is not stored in a logical fashion, it cannot be stored in a logical fashion, and as a result, I actually hesitate to use Evernote.

Curiously, this is exactly the reason I'm in favor of tags:  my data is not stored in a rigid logical fashion either, I just tag it for later queries.

I don't understand that your data is not stored in a logical fashion,  why do you need subfolders then?

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3 hours ago, chronistin said:

I have ~ 22000 notes, about 50% of them with one or more attachments. Performance problems on windows started about 2 years ago. Contact with support as well as following the forums did not resolve the issue permanently.

Reindexing the database makes it slightly better - for a few days. Not gonna reindex once a week.

Removing and reinstalling (and redownloading all the data) makes it much better -  for a week or 2. Not gonna reinstall twice a month.

Moving the db to ssd (as someone suggested in the forums) did not make a difference. Moving it back to hd because someone else said that was not a good idea to host it on ssd did not make a difference either.

Hardware is 3 years old, i7 with 4GHz and 8 GB RAM, harddisk has more than 50% free space, no problems with gaming (eg cities skylines which is a known to be huge ressource eater) and video rendering. 

It's frustrating. 

Wow!  I empathize.  I have an older, lower end laptop with around 17K notes and the SSD replacement about two years ago was the magic bullet for me.  I removed the HDD and replaced it with an SSD and reinstalled the OS, so everything is running on the SSD not just the database.  I've seen others have reported this problem as well and hope that EN can eventually get to the bottom of it and I keep my fingers crossed that my system continues to remain somewhat problem free.  I sacrifice a chicken every couple of weeks to be on the safe side.

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47 minutes ago, s2sailor said:

Wow!  I empathize.  I have an older, lower end laptop with around 17K notes and the SSD replacement about two years ago was the magic bullet for me.  I removed the HDD and replaced it with an SSD and reinstalled the OS, so everything is running on the SSD not just the database.  I've seen others have reported this problem as well and hope that EN can eventually get to the bottom of it and I keep my fingers crossed that my system continues to remain somewhat problem free.  I sacrifice a chicken every couple of weeks to be on the safe side.

As things are going, I'm willing to try the chicken sacrifice! 🤣

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20 hours ago, TheMagicWombat said:

Especially since Nested Notebooks have been a top request for over a decade now, and Evernote has told us where to go with that request. 

I haven't seen the response from Evernote; can you post a link.

The last response I heard from Evernote was when they implemented Stacks to assist with Notebook organization, but that only provides one level of hierarchy.  There is talk of an additioal level.

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3 hours ago, eafpres said:

I have been working towards getting a memory and SSD upgrade for my laptop; maybe soonish.  I hope it helps

Ditto.  I find everything is faster with an SSD on board, from booting to all apps. 

Never had a Mac, so I got my daughter's old Macbook Pro when she updated.  It was watch the paint dry slooooow.  Added 4 GB of memory and a 500 GB SSD for $100 and it is like a new machine, though the battery sucks.  Still like my PC better, old dog I suppose.  EN Windows does have some nice bits that EN Mac does not.  But I stray from the topic...

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13 hours ago, CalS said:

I find everything is faster with an SSD on board,

Now if I could only get an SSD for my brain...

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2 hours ago, jefito said:

Now if I could only get an SSD for my brain...

Yeah, available for second brain only. 

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Well, I've come very close a few times in the past. The last time was about a year ago when I took a serious look at Nimbus. Close but no cigar.

Prior to my renewal date in a couple of weeks, I will be downgrading to a free account. I've waited for premium to offer some value and it's just not there. Of my 12,000 notes, only 4 are over 25 mb and I hit about 2% of my monthly upload limit. The two device limit will be a slight aggravation, but as many have posted, there are a couple of workarounds.

Meanwhile, after looking a couple of times and leaving in confusion, I am working on going all in with Notion. The more I look the better it gets. It's cheaper than EN and does so much more. The design and database aspects are amazing. Currently, the only two stumbling blocks for me are no true inbox and you can't email into it. I have devised short term work-arounds, but unlike EN, they are rolling out improvements constantly, and I expect those to be complete soon.

I won't be leaving EN for a while - it will take me weeks, if not months to get Notion setup, but with its import capabilities, I could dump all my EN notes into it in one evening and have everything there in the same structure.

It's been a great 10 years, but it's time to move on. 

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1 hour ago, dbvirago said:

The design and database aspects are amazing. 

Could you add more details on your use for this.

I have spreadsheets/databases in my data, but they're conventional Excel/Numbers and SQLite objects.

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24 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Could you add more details on your use for this.

I have spreadsheets/databases in my data, but conventional Excel/Numbers and SQLite objects.

You can build tables with pretty much any type of field object, including links to other pages or tables. There is a relational database capability which I have seen but not used yet, for one to many type scenarios. You can embed other objects like Excel spreadsheets, but they are static views at this point. I think with the next release, they will be live and editable. 

I've only been on it for a few days and am still learning what it can do.

Right now I am building a to-do list table with text, multi-select, date, numeric and drop-down fields. I will then post a link to that on my main page with a view of only tasks due today and a limited set of fields. That same table, or any subset view of it can be turned into a calendar view with a couple of clicks. 

For Evernote folders that contain a bunch of screenshots, those will become a gallery view, similar to a snippet or card view, but the same page can contain other elements, i.e. tables, etc. 

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Well.... After 9 years, I have downgraded from Premium to Basic.

Had to delete 10 of my 10,000 notes. I won't be able to upload 1,000 times more stuff than I have in years.

I won't be able to look at my notes for those few hours a year I am offline (Until I complete the port to Notion)
I'll be able to buy that extra cup of coffee every day that people keep talking about

 

 

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13 minutes ago, dbvirago said:

downgraded from Premium to Basic. ... Had to delete 10 of my 10,000 notes.

Just wondering about the deleting of notes.

I always assumed my notes would live on if/when I downgraded.  

I know I won't be able to edit the oversize notes.

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You may be right - I made an assumption. The over-sized notes were big PDF manuals, that I never really needed in EN. I have a couple of days left. I'll put one back up there and we'll see. I'll keep you posted.

 

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On 4/2/2019 at 7:20 AM, dbvirago said:

I have devised short term work-arounds, but unlike EN

What are your workarounds?

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Downgrading brings back memories....what I remember from 2+ years ago is, downgrading won't destroy or prevent access to existing large notes, but it will prevent you from creating new ones over the size limit. It may let you edit, but it presumably won't let you save if the edited note is too large. So far, reasonable...but the limit can cause some very subtle problems!

For example, if you cut a large embedded object from a note, get distracted by a notification or something, then paste it in a different part of the note...and the note auto-saves in between the cut and the paste, it might not let you paste, as technically you are making the existing copy of the note, which is under the size limit, into an oversize note.

Or, if you use the EN app control to start a voice (or worse, video) recording...if you accidentally exceed the size that can be saved into a note, it will show you an error message (reasonable) but it will also send whatever you recorded into the bit bucket! Many people have encountered this...support assures is, there is no temp file of your recording. You'll have to re-record whatever it is. Without the size limit, this bug usually only happened when your device was slow, or if the user on a fast device doesn't wait 10-20 secs after stopping the recording for the file to attach itself and appear in the new note. Even on a fast device, if you try to make any other changes to the note before the recording fully saves, the save sometimes fails in which case your recording is lost. With the size limit, it must means there one more condition (size) that could trigger this bit bucket bug...and NO it hasn't been fixed to the best of my knowledge.

Another scenario had to do with pasting objects that are file-less images (ie. you copy an image into the buffer without first downloading it) into a note. Sometimes the paste operation would convert let's say a X MB .png into a 5x MG generic image object during a paste operation. I think that scenario was patched re certain image types, but I highly doubt all the various possible large, file-less paste objects where addressed systematically. This bug could still be lurking, waiting for you. It could cause your note to exceed the size limit inadvertently...or to exceed the upload limit inadvertently.

I haven't reproduced these scenarios in a while; but when I do anything mission critical, even with Premium, I assume they're still out there...waiting to strike!!!

Good luck and do keep us posted.

This makes me want to try Notion. Is there a referal a friend or similar program from them?

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On 4/2/2019 at 8:20 AM, dbvirago said:

Right now I am building a to-do list table with text, multi-select, date, numeric and drop-down fields. I will then post a link to that on my main page with a view of only tasks due today and a limited set of fields. That same table, or any subset view of it can be turned into a calendar view with a couple of clicks. 

I'm following through with a test case for receipts.
I need to store the receipts (scanned pdf) but also do number analysis in a spreadsheet.
I have a working model in Evernote, but it's a painful workflow.
I'll parallel this in Notion

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Just a general note on pc problems

I'd been living with a pc that seemed to be stuck on 100% disk usage most of time for ages.

I  googled it and tried the suggestions on a couple of sites about altering this and that but nothing seemed to work.

The other day out of desperation, I trawled through task scheduler and  and my start up folders and just chucked  a bunch of stuff out.

I could not believe the difference it made, it's been like having a new pc

To view the the 2 startup folders, hold down the windows key and press the "R" key to open the Run box, then type

shell:common startup

for one and 

shell:startup

for the other.

To view what's in your task scheduler , hold down the windows key and press the "R" key to open the Run box, then type

taskschd.msc

If your situation is anything like mine there'll be a load of stuff that you don't need. For example I don't need my printer software doing some task every few minutes, forever.

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OK, just went over the expiration date on my Evernote. The huge PDF file was still there and viewable, but I couldn't move it or even delete if from the Win client. Did so from the web. 

As far as workarounds. I have created a page called Inbox and that is where my web clipper goes. For email and scanned files, I still use EN as the inbox and then move files or screen capture emails into Notion. 

I briefly tested an embedded spreadsheet, but haven't spent much time with it. Spent the last few days moving to a new laptop, so Notion/EN has taken a back seat. 

Re 100% disk usage, I spent a lot of times chasing down suggested fixes for that. There are a ton. some are useful, some not - none cured the problem. The new machine and SSD seems to have taken care of it. Agree on task scheduler. Takes a lot of time to go through it, but it's amazing how much ***** there is in there. 

 

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On 4/14/2019 at 2:12 AM, John in Michigan USA said:

Downgrading brings back memories....what I remember from 2+ years ago is, downgrading won't destroy or prevent access to existing large notes, but it will prevent you from creating new ones over the size limit. It may let you edit, but it presumably won't let you save if the edited note is too large. So far, reasonable...but the limit can cause some very subtle problems!

For example, if you cut a large embedded object from a note, get distracted by a notification or something, then paste it in a different part of the note...and the note auto-saves in between the cut and the paste, it might not let you paste, as technically you are making the existing copy of the note, which is under the size limit, into an oversize note.

Or, if you use the EN app control to start a voice (or worse, video) recording...if you accidentally exceed the size that can be saved into a note, it will show you an error message (reasonable) but it will also send whatever you recorded into the bit bucket! Many people have encountered this...support assures is, there is no temp file of your recording. You'll have to re-record whatever it is. Without the size limit, this bug usually only happened when your device was slow, or if the user on a fast device doesn't wait 10-20 secs after stopping the recording for the file to attach itself and appear in the new note. Even on a fast device, if you try to make any other changes to the note before the recording fully saves, the save sometimes fails in which case your recording is lost. With the size limit, it must means there one more condition (size) that could trigger this bit bucket bug...and NO it hasn't been fixed to the best of my knowledge.

Another scenario had to do with pasting objects that are file-less images (ie. you copy an image into the buffer without first downloading it) into a note. Sometimes the paste operation would convert let's say a X MB .png into a 5x MG generic image object during a paste operation. I think that scenario was patched re certain image types, but I highly doubt all the various possible large, file-less paste objects where addressed systematically. This bug could still be lurking, waiting for you. It could cause your note to exceed the size limit inadvertently...or to exceed the upload limit inadvertently.

I haven't reproduced these scenarios in a while; but when I do anything mission critical, even with Premium, I assume they're still out there...waiting to strike!!!

Good luck and do keep us posted.

This makes me want to try Notion. Is there a referal a friend or similar program from them?

There is. This gets you a $10 credit and me a $5 credit. Their paid plan is $48 a year or $5 monthly. 

 

https://www.notion.so/?r=9af10571a5e74b5594e491b4178a3358

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I will add this. It has always been my intention when/if I downgraded to keep Evernote. The limits placed on the free plan are easily worked around. I could either use the web client on my laptop, or as I did, revoke access to my tablet, since 95% of my use is laptop and phone. I don't hit a tiny fraction of the monthly limit and the 25Mb per note limit is not an issue for me. 

In that way, it could be a backup to Notion or I could modify my use of EN into something else.

That being said, if they keep up the spam trying to get me to upgrade, I will drop it and never look back.

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