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evernotehard

evernote current status - 2018

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evernote has gotten tons of bad press & noise over time such as on https://ergonotes.com/cintanotes-vs-evernote/

need some of these:

1. a changelog of the last 6 months to see that evernote has actively made the core features product better

2. a really really good review of evernote that shows what evernote does that nothing else does (also within the last 6 months)

3. use cases and examples of how users use it that uniquely only be done in evernote (within the last 6 months)

 

-

this is the 2nd check

this is after the 1st check,

  looks like evernote has possibly better search via 'syntax search' (will look into it)--

 

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On 4/7/2018 at 9:51 PM, evernotehard said:

evernote has gotten tons of bad press & noise over time

Evernote includes an editor that's fine for basic notes.
One thing to keep in mind is: This editor is not a replacement for a word processing app.
There are many complaints from users thinking the editor should do more.'

Another point of contention is that Evernote does not support a folder/subfolder filing methodology.
Notes have two attributes; Notebook and Tag
There are many complaints from users thinking that Notebooks should be a folder/subfolder replacement.

>>what evernote does that nothing else does

For me, Evernote is a digital filing cabinet; and does this better that any other service.
Each note is a container storing files of any format as attachments.
My notes contain word processing documents, spreadsheets, pdfs, images ....

More important than storage; Evernote allows me to retrieve documents when I need them.
There is an extensive search feature but I mostly rely on the tags.

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tested, seems a bit different from the past

download desktop version or use web?

any links to any significant differences?

if i were replying to posts, i'd search evernote and copy/paste w/e is relevant

 

---

'Each note is a container storing files of any format as attachments.
My notes contain word processing documents, spreadsheets, pdfs, images .... '

- hmm that does not appear to make much sense to use something only to store 'external-type content' or 'external attachement'

- im going to use notes just as notes, as containers for textual info (text-based info)

- and the key part is beign able to get near-instantly what is needed (onenote is limited in this, let's see how ever works out given extensive extensive extensive info)

- i guess others are using code editors -- and that takes care of the searching info problem, but i want the 'rich formatting text' taht's why,...

 

-

'but I mostly rely on the tags.' - had replied over at the tag post

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Not going to touch this one:  if you want to consider using Evernote,  the app starts out free,  so start using it with some test data.  If it works for you go with it.  If not,  find something else.  I can't do due diligence for anyone else.  Plus constantly searching for 'the best' of anything is largely a waste of time. 

All apps evolve to be pretty much the same as any other app in that class in due time.  I've changed to-do apps several times over the years,  always for a better feature somewhere else... only to find that my old app added that feature after a few months anyway.  Pick one.  Stick with it.  Get things done!

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9 hours ago, evernotehard said:

download desktop version or use web?

The Win/Mac client software has many more features than the web version.

>> -hmm that does not appear to make much sense to use something only to store 'external-type content' or 'external attachement'
- im going to use notes just as notes, as containers for textual info (text-based info)

It's your choice but imho you're limiting the benefits of using the service.

 

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3 hours ago, gazumped said:

Plus constantly searching for 'the best' of anything is largely a waste of time

Completely agree! You are not going to find the "perfect" solution or the best software. It just needs to work for you and you may have to tweak and adjust things to make it work for you. If you want it perfect for you, you might as well write your own app since they cannot make something that is perfect for everybody.

Of course, if the company starts to make really bad decisions, and it is not improving at all, you should always reconsider but that is a different aspect than searching the best software all the time. You should challenge to improve for the sake of improving, not just for looking for something that is the "best" and it is going to do things for you. App is never the answer, it is just a tool.

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Here's how I use Evernote, and why I like it. I've never used Cintanote or OneNote, so I can't make comparisons.

  • I have a Premium subscription to Evernote. US$70/year is less than $6/month, which seems well worthwhile, since it not only gets me premium features but supports Evernote's efforts to maintain and improve the software and service.
  • I create notes related to various research, writing, and personal projects. I create these notes on my desktop or laptop Windows computer, or on my Android phone. If I needed to, I could do so on a public computer, e.g., at a library (though I'd want to be sure my login got deleted afterward).
  • These notes can include ideas that I type, text scanned in from books and articles (using an app on my phone, or my scanner at home), Web pages clipped (shared on my phone) to notes, attached documents (PDF, DOCX RTF, etc.) and images, etc.
  • I can link from one note to another; and I can create links on my computer or phone that will open notes.
  • I can access and read or edit the notes anywhere I can take them. Attached items may need to rely on apps external to Evernote, especially on my phone. For instance, the following are common scenarios for me.
    • I read something at breakfast, scan some text from it into Evernote with my phone, and then later at my computer edit and refine the note.
    • I just get an idea wherever I may happen to be, create a note, and then edit it later.
    • I need to have some material with me when I go into a meeting, so I create and refine a note on my computer and/or phone, add attachments and links to other notes, and then have it on my phone in the meeting.
  • I can search for material in notes anywhere I can create and access them.
  • To repeat, I create notes. I do not attempt to create large, fully formatted documents, since that's not what (as I understand it) Evernote is designed for.
  • I occasionally get annoyed that even simple note-taking runs into formatting and editing issues (e.g., copy and paste problems in Android; undo issues in Windows). These issues have gotten worse over the last year or so as Evernote has been developing its editor across all platforms, while having to deal with updates to underlying structures and operating systems, such as HTML, Chromium, and Android. I haven't updated Evernote for Windows in quite awhile because of this. But overall, editing is OK (not great), and getting better.

On my computers, I use Evernote for Windows rather than the Web interface, for the following reasons.

  • The interface is much easier to use (for me).
  • I can open notes in separate windows.
  • I have access to all my Windows fonts.
  • I have control over options for editing and other matters.
  • It's free.
  • Probably some other reasons that are so second-nature to me that I don't even think of them.

I hope this is some help. But in the end I agree with @gazumped and @TK0047: it's free to try, so try it. Try it on more than one platform. See if it works well for you. If it becomes integral to your work and/or life, then IMHO you should subscribe at least at the Plus level. If it doesn't work for you, move on. It has always been true of advanced software that the only real way to find out how it works and whether it works well is to try it. But no software or system is going to be perfect for anyone, let alone for everyone. Give it a try!

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On 4/8/2018 at 12:01 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:
  • I have a Premium subscription to Evernote. US$70/year is less than $6/month, which seems well worthwhile, since it not only gets me premium features but supports Evernote's efforts to maintain and improve the software and service.
3

At $70, Evernote is the most expensive annual subscription I have. What with $20 here and there for other subscriptions it adds up.  Surely, maintaining the service without undue customer inconvenience and communicating with customers is part of "service." I use it for basically one thing: collecting and retrieving notes. Many of the changes are of no use to me.

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On 4/8/2018 at 9:48 AM, TK0047 said:

Completely agree! You are not going to find the "perfect" solution or the best software. It just needs to work for you and you may have to tweak and adjust things to make it work for you. If you want it perfect for you, you might as well write your own app since they cannot make something that is perfect for everybody.

Of course, if the company starts to make really bad decisions, and it is not improving at all, you should always reconsider but that is a different aspect than searching the best software all the time. You should challenge to improve for the sake of improving, not just for looking for something that is the "best" and it is going to do things for you. App is never the answer, it is just a tool.

The "best of" anything is obviously going to be relative to other services and dependent on the user's needs. What do you suggest, doing "worst" search?

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10 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

The "best of" anything is obviously going to be relative to other services and dependent on the user's needs. What do you suggest, doing "worst" search?

No, that is not my suggestion. The point I was making, if I keep looking for something "better" or the "best" at all times for everything in life, I may not get the value from what I have.

There will be apps that will come out, they might be better than Evernote, so as soon as I find that if I switch, I will have to switch again once there is another "best" app release later. It is kinda like a car purchase or lease, one year after I purchase it, there will be a better car/model released, but I am not going to get out of my current contract to get the new/better/best car right away. I will get the best usage out of what I have because it is working for me.

In short, there will be always something better out there (maybe in some features or in one aspect), seeking such all the time may blind you to what you really have.

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On 4/8/2018 at 1:04 AM, DTLow said:

Evernote includes an editor that's fine for basic notes.
One thing to keep in mind is: This editor is not a replacement for a word processing app.
There are many complaints from users thinking the editor should do more.'

Another point of contention is that Evernote does not support a folder/subfolder filing methodology.
Notes have two attributes; Notebook and Tag
There are many complaints from users thinking that Notebooks should be a folder/subfolder replacement.

>>what evernote does that nothing else does

For me, Evernote is a digital filing cabinet; and does this better that any other service.
Each note is a container storing files of any format as attachments.
My notes contain word processing documents, spreadsheets, pdfs, images ....

More important than storage; Evernote allows me to retrieve documents when I need them.
There is an extensive search feature but I mostly rely on the tags.

4

I've only used it to create basic notes, but people could be forgiven for being confused, what with the formatting options, and the ability to use it for presentations (Why?  Why not use Powerpoint or Google Slide?).

Evernote needs more notebooks. That is an obvious way people are accustomed to organize data and the company should accommodate customers.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TK0047 said:

No, that is not my suggestion. The point I was making, if I keep looking for something "better" or the "best" at all times for everything in life, I may not get the value from what I have.

There will be apps that will come out, they might be better than Evernote, so as soon as I find that if I switch, I will have to switch again once there is another "best" app release later. It is kinda like a car purchase or lease, one year after I purchase it, there will be a better car/model released, but I am not going to get out of my current contract to get the new/better/best car right away. I will get the best usage out of what I have because it is working for me.

In short, there will be always something better out there (maybe in some features or in one aspect), seeking such all the time may blind you to what you really have.

OK.

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9 hours ago, Etonreve said:

Evernote needs more notebooks. That is an obvious way people are accustomed to organize data and the company should accommodate customers.

My experience is the "way people are accustomed to organize data" is file folder/subfolder.
Evernote does not support this methodology; instead Notes have two attributes.

The first attribute is the Notebook element.
limitations:
- 250 notebooks for personal accounts
- one notebook per note
- no hierarchy, but notebooks can be grouped into stacks

The second attribute in notes is the Tags element.  I use these to organize my data.
limitations:
- 100,000 for personal accounts
- multiple tags per note
- unlimited hierarchy.

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On 2018-04-08 at 1:04 AM, DTLow said:

Evernote includes an editor that's fine for basic notes.
One thing to keep in mind is: This editor is not a replacement for a word processing app.
There are many complaints from users thinking the editor should do more.'

 

On 2018-04-08 at 12:01 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:
  • To repeat, I create notes. I do not attempt to create large, fully formatted documents, since that's not what (as I understand it) Evernote is designed for.
  •  

 

18 hours ago, Etonreve said:

I've only used it to create basic notes, but people could be forgiven for being confused, what with the formatting options, and the ability to use it for presentations (Why?  Why not use Powerpoint or Google Slide?).

 

This comes up over and over, and it's a bit dismissive of alternative viewpoints. 

I get that you guys are used to working within the box that Evernote limits you to, and I agree it is an awesome tool for creating a collection of random notes which is why I prefer it over other alternative approaches like OneNote, but the better formatting is being requested by people who want to use it in creating notes, not full blow documents or presentations (well, I'm sure there are those who would use these features for more, but that's not why many of us request them.)

I'm a visual thinker, so as part of my note taking process, I like a little colour, change of font, and formatting to be able to highlight and break down the content in the note.  So it would be of great use to me to be able to do some colour highlights, and easily apply consistent formatting (styles - because one click is better than 2,3,4, or more clicks).

If I'm trying to create a presentation or long form document or publication, I'll use the appropriate tool.  But I really really wish you guys would quit spouting the viewpoint that slightly improved formatting does not belong in a note taking tool because while you do not use it, there are many of us who would and it wouldn't be divergent from the intent of the platform.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, CraigZ said:

This comes up over and over, and it's a bit dismissive of alternative viewpoints. 

And here you are, being "dismissive of alternative viewpoints"

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9 minutes ago, DTLow said:

And here you are, being "dismissive of alternative viewpoints"

How helpful a response is this!?  It's just stated over and over again that "evernote is not a wordprocessor" in so many threads when people are asking for features that would help them with note taking;  it's not like such features would prevent someone from not using them.

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17 minutes ago, CraigZ said:

How helpful a response is this!? 

This is a discussion in the General Discussions forum.

There are many feature requests posted in the Feature Requests forums.
- To indicate your support for a request, use the voting buttons in the top left corner of the request discussion.
- You can also participate in the discussion of the feature request.

I'm not interested in "Boohoo, Evernote's so bad" posts;
I find the work-around solutions useful, and the "use cases and examples of how users use" asked for by the OP

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1 hour ago, CraigZ said:

This comes up over and over, and it's a bit dismissive of alternative viewpoints. 

I get that you guys are used to working within the box that Evernote limits you to, and I agree it is an awesome tool for creating a collection of random notes which is why I prefer it over other alternative approaches like OneNote, but the better formatting is being requested by people who want to use it in creating notes, not full blow documents or presentations (well, I'm sure there are those who would use these features for more, but that's not why many of us request them.)

I'm a visual thinker, so as part of my note taking process, I like a little colour, change of font, and formatting to be able to highlight and break down the content in the note.  So it would be of great use to me to be able to do some colour highlights, and easily apply consistent formatting (styles - because one click is better than 2,3,4, or more clicks).

If I'm trying to create a presentation or long form document or publication, I'll use the appropriate tool.  But I really really wish you guys would quit spouting the viewpoint that slightly improved formatting does not belong in a note taking tool because while you do not use it, there are many of us who would and it wouldn't be divergent from the intent of the platform.

Point taken, and sorry if it sounded dismissive. (Describing the way a program is designed to work as "the box that it limits you to" feels kind of dismissive too, actually.) I think I'd find some formatting improvements useful, especially regarding bullet points and numbered lists. Color and font change are there in the Windows program; I'd like to see them come to the Android app too. My real issue is with people who want to run their entire business on Evernote, or write a novel with it (I kid you not), or even create lengthy, highly formatted business documents. Better formatting would help some aspects of note-taking; I don't disagree with that. But alongside us inside-the-box types, there really are people who come here asking why their car can't fly (and do it for free).

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4 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Point taken, and sorry if it sounded dismissive. (Describing the way a program is designed to work as "the box that it limits you to" feels kind of dismissive too, actually.) I think I'd find some formatting improvements useful, especially regarding bullet points and numbered lists. Color and font change are there in the Windows program; I'd like to see them come to the Android app too. My real issue is with people who want to run their entire business on Evernote, or write a novel with it (I kid you not), or even create lengthy, highly formatted business documents. Better formatting would help some aspects of note-taking; I don't disagree with that. But alongside us inside-the-box types, there really are people who come here asking why their car can't fly (and do it for free).

Yeah, I suppose it was dismissive as well, but I intended to stay respectful of the intent of Evernote, it was all more out of a reaction to it being the standard reply to so many posts it gets a bit frustrating.  And yeah, new people will have new "unique" ideas, and yeah I'm sure people will try and use a tool for anything they possibly can, and that's probably equally tiring for you guys who have been on the tool (and forums) for a long time (especially when people don't search to see if an idea has been posted and discussed at length before)

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2 minutes ago, CraigZ said:

Yeah, I suppose it was dismissive as well, but I intended to stay respectful of the intent of Evernote, it was all more out of a reaction to it being the standard reply to so many posts it gets a bit frustrating.  And yeah, new people will have new "unique" ideas, and yeah I'm sure people will try and use a tool for anything they possibly can, and that's probably equally tiring for you guys who have been on the tool (and forums) for a long time (especially when people don't search to see if an idea has been posted and discussed at length before)

I think part of the problem is that Evernote is indeed quite good at what it does overall, so that it opens up people's imaginations. "Hey, I bet I could use this for...." That's completely a good thing, IMHO. But then if the brilliant use case doesn't quite work out people get disappointed or frustrated, and take it out on the program.

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4 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I think part of the problem is that Evernote is indeed quite good at what it does overall, so that it opens up people's imaginations. "Hey, I bet I could use this for...." That's completely a good thing, IMHO. But then if the brilliant use case doesn't quite work out people get disappointed or frustrated, and take it out on the program.

Well, I think it's great at what it does, and part of that is a really simplistic design (in a way), which makes it powerful but also very close but never quite there for a lot of people too (even if they are going beyond it's original intent, not unexpected if a tool is popular).  Most of my frustrations centre around what seem like polish and refinement to make note taking smoother, but it's easy to feel a bit entitled to a preferred application working a specific way.

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15 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

so that it opens up people's imaginations. "Hey, I bet I could use this for...."

This is a really good way of phrasing usage/possibilities for Evernote. For me, the more I use it, the more stuff I put in it, the more ideas I get and the more usage I get out of it. It evolves constantly which includes the way I create notes, the things I track in it, the tags I use.

Besides some technical problems and some bad decisions (IMHO - i.e. pdf viewer for Windows), I cannot complain much.

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With all the above in the last 10 posts or so, whatever the editor does, please make it do it repeatably, and have it look kinda the same across platforms.  :)

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On 4/13/2018 at 10:29 AM, CraigZ said:

 

 

 

This comes up over and over, and it's a bit dismissive of alternative viewpoints. 

I get that you guys are used to working within the box that Evernote limits you to, and I agree it is an awesome tool for creating a collection of random notes which is why I prefer it over other alternative approaches like OneNote, but the better formatting is being requested by people who want to use it in creating notes, not full blow documents or presentations (well, I'm sure there are those who would use these features for more, but that's not why many of us request them.)

I'm a visual thinker, so as part of my note taking process, I like a little colour, change of font, and formatting to be able to highlight and break down the content in the note.  So it would be of great use to me to be able to do some colour highlights, and easily apply consistent formatting (styles - because one click is better than 2,3,4, or more clicks).

If I'm trying to create a presentation or long form document or publication, I'll use the appropriate tool.  But I really really wish you guys would quit spouting the viewpoint that slightly improved formatting does not belong in a note taking tool because while you do not use it, there are many of us who would and it wouldn't be divergent from the intent of the platform.

 

 

If the basic function of the app is not working, the basis on which most people bought it, it's not "dismissive" to complain that a company is exploring new features at the expense of the core features. When it announced its subscription increase last year, Evernote said it was going to focus on the basics. Creating a feature that already is performed better by other programs does not make sense. I was speaking specifically about the Presentation feature, perhaps you're not familiar with it. 

My response was largely directed at the person who accused Evernote users of expecting TOO MUCH from the formatting. That's not me. I'm here to save and retrieve notes. 

You're dismissive in saying that we are happy with the status quo. I'm realistic. I would love Evernote to get out of the 250-notebook box. 

 

 

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On 4/13/2018 at 12:20 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

I think part of the problem is that Evernote is indeed quite good at what it does overall, so that it opens up people's imaginations. "Hey, I bet I could use this for...." That's completely a good thing, IMHO. But then if the brilliant use case doesn't quite work out people get disappointed or frustrated, and take it out on the program.

 I'm reluctant to try some of Evernote's new features because they disappear. I never knew how to integrate Skitch (sp?) and then it disappeared. I used Evernote Food, taking photos at restaurant dinners and family meals and making notes and that went away too. Why should I bother when all I really care about is being able to create and save notes and organize them? 

I would like more notebooks. 

 

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:09 PM, DTLow said:

My experience is the "way people are accustomed to organize data" is file folder/subfolder.
Evernote does not support this methodology; instead Notes have two attributes.

The first attribute is the Notebook element.
limitations:
- 250 notebooks for personal accounts
- one notebook per note
- no hierarchy, but notebooks can be grouped into stacks

The second attribute in notes is the Tags element.  I use these to organize my data.
limitations:
- 100,000 for personal accounts
- multiple tags per note
- unlimited hierarchy.

Evernote needs to change its methodology. Notebooks are what most people are familiar with and what they want. There are times when it is not possible to create tags or there is no time to type them. Not everyone wants to look up the search syntax for searching tags. If notes are added to a notebook they can be found with ease. Tags are fine, but they should not be critical to retrieving one's notes. 

Smart companies respond to customer demand. Not creating more notebook capacity is a design flaw. If you ask people whether they'd rather have 5,000 or even 500 notebooks instead of 100,000 tags, they'd take the notebooks. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Etonreve said:

Evernote needs to change its methodology. Notebooks are what most people are familiar with and what they want. 

As I pointed out, notes have two attributes: Notebook and Tags.
I don't see that Evernote has to change its methodology; we may use either attribute.

Yes, increasing the limit on Notebooks has been requested.
Also, adding a hierarchy similar to Tags.
 

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1 hour ago, Etonreve said:

I never knew how to integrate Skitch (sp?) and then it disappeared.

Skitch as a separately named product disappeared, but it lives on, at least in the Windows client, when you right-click on an image in an Evernote note, and select one of the "Annotate" options.

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1 hour ago, Etonreve said:

Evernote needs to change its methodology.

Evernote is changing its methodology. See the recent emphasis on Spaces, which appear currently in the Business edition, but are promised to arrive in the personal edition(s) at some as yet unspecified time in the future.

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1 hour ago, DTLow said:

As I pointed out, notes have two attributes: Notebook and Tags.
I don't see that Evernote has to change its methodology.

Yes, increasing the limit on Notebooks has been requested.
Also, adding a hierarchy similar to Tags.
 

I know it's been requested many times and that it is possible. 

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29 minutes ago, jefito said:

Skitch as a separately named product disappeared, but it lives on, at least in the Windows client, when you right-click on an image in an Evernote note, and select one of the "Annotate" options.

 Skitch was an example. I'm not interested in committing time to new features that are going to disappear or not be supported on all platforms. 

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30 minutes ago, jefito said:

Evernote is changing its methodology. See the recent emphasis on Spaces, which appear currently in the Business edition, but are promised to arrive in the personal edition(s) at some as yet unspecified time in the future.

I don't care about Spaces. That's a prime example of a feature for which I have no need that has been given precedence over a feature I do need, more notebooks. 

Does Evernote ever poll customers about the features they actually want? The only survey I remember receiving was on different price and service plans. 

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10 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

 Skitch was an example. I'm not interested in committing time to new features that are going to disappear or not be supported on all platforms. 

If you don't want to use The Annotation Tool Formerly Known as Skitch, or it doesn't make your life easier, then that's your call. But please don't use incorrect statements for your examples. Skitch did not disappear.

13 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

I don't care about Spaces. That's a prime example of a feature for which I have no need that has been given precedence over a feature I do need, more notebooks. 

You may get more notebooks. You may even get nested notebooks. (We have hints on these, but no commitments). And you'll likely get Spaces. You may actually find that Spaces help you, once they're available. Of course they may disappear, so better be wary...

14 minutes ago, Etonreve said:

Does Evernote ever poll customers about the features they actually want? The only survey I remember receiving was on different price and service plans.

There may have been feature-specific polls, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. They do get plenty of feedback on desired from the forums, from Twitter, and from other sources. They don't necessarily operate solely by poll or popularity; that's just one factor. Where I work, we don't use polls to guide our product direction; it's always a mix of direct customer feedback and requests and our own vision of what's important.

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2 hours ago, Etonreve said:

If you ask people whether they'd rather have 5,000 or even 500 notebooks instead of 100,000 tags, they'd take the notebooks. 

I would not, being a people I thought I could vote.  I can get by with 10 notebooks and 500 tags.  So 250 and 100,000 seems to cover it.  But should EN decide to add more notebooks, fine by me.  :D

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1 hour ago, Etonreve said:

I don't care about Spaces. That's a prime example of a feature for which I have no need

I see Spaces as a supercharged Stack.  You will still be able to use Stacks to organize your notebooks.

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3 hours ago, Etonreve said:

Does Evernote ever poll customers about the features they actually want? The only survey I remember receiving was on different price and service plans.

Not a poll, but in the post announcing that no new Plus subscriptions will be offered, Evernote's rep stated, "In the three years since it was introduced, Plus has proven to be less popular than we thought it would be. This tells us that we need to find a better solution to meet your needs. We believe gathering customer feedback will help determine what those needs are." He didn't say exactly how this feedback would be gathered, and of course this only refers to subscription plans. But maybe posting there would be worthwhile.

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One of my I.T. professors, in discussing developing software, was a big proponent of getting feedforward. He said that feedback was too late.

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On 4/8/2018 at 6:04 AM, DTLow said:

Evernote includes an editor that's fine for basic notes.

No it's not. If you use Evernote for document storage then you probably won't notice, but the editor is actually really buggy. I'd prefer they fix it before adding any new formatting tools.

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I assume there is a difference of opinion here on what a basic note is. I've written almost 500 articles entirely in the EN editor and haven't had a problem unless the app itself goes into its frequent Not Responding state. I've never noticed the editor as buggy.

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7 minutes ago, dbvirago said:

I assume there is a difference of opinion here on what a basic note is. I've written almost 500 articles entirely in the EN editor and haven't had a problem unless the app itself goes into its frequent Not Responding state. I've never noticed the editor as buggy.

Of course there is -- my work usage has a lot of bullet lists with checkboxes and items that are links to our bug database, and it's been a long-standing struggle to keep up with the current state of problems with creating and cutting/pasting these things around. It can be an adventure, though at this point I can usually find a way that works... until the next update hits...

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On 2018-04-17 at 2:07 PM, dixonbruce said:

No it's not. If you use Evernote for document storage then you probably won't notice, but the editor is actually really buggy.

 

On 2018-04-17 at 2:27 PM, dbvirago said:

I assume there is a difference of opinion here on what a basic note is.

Definition of note - a brief record of points or ideas written down as an aid to memory, a short informal letter or written message

I agree "the editor is actually really buggy".  It's also limited in features.
My point is: the editor works for basic notes. For other work, I use other editors.
     edit: this is a comment on the features delivered by the Evernote editor

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1 hour ago, dbvirago said:

feedforward

Time to Feedforwarddownload.png.5dd55d30a604b5430c181ee73a61d193.png

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1 hour ago, dbvirago said:

I assume there is a difference of opinion here on what a basic note is. I've written almost 500 articles entirely in the EN editor and haven't had a problem unless the app itself goes into its frequent Not Responding state. I've never noticed the editor as buggy.

 

46 minutes ago, DTLow said:

 

Definition of note - a brief record of points or ideas written down as an aid to memory, a short informal letter or written message

I don't disagree with "the editor is actually really buggy".  It's also limited in features.
My point is: the editor works for basic notes. For other work, I use other editors.

@DTLow's definition of a note is pretty similar to how I use Evernote. But I do disagree with the idea that the editor is "really buggy." It depends, of course,  on what version you're using. Good ol' 6.5.4 works fine for me. "Buggy" is not the same as "lacking some desirable features." I wish 6.5.4 could do one or two more things than it does; but what it does it mostly does right.

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2 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

But I do disagree with the idea that the editor is "really buggy."

All this debate is making a simple thing sound really complicated.  Like @DTLow I use Evernote as far as I can take it,  but when I start to run into the limits of things like styles,  or graphics,  or pagination,  or calculation,  or relational links I'll copy and paste my Evernote content into another app and go on from there. 

As far as my colleagues and customers are concerned,  being late to a deadline or failing to deliver a quality product is not excusable because "Evernote wouldn't do that" or "I'm waiting on a feature that should be available soon".  If something doesn't work in one package,  you go out and use (or find) something that does.

Something like using a hammer for lots of things but still having a screwdriver set handy for appropriate situations.

Sure it would be nice if Evernote did everything really well,  but I want to see the showstopper bugs getting high priority.  Freezing / syncing / reliable updates are showstoppers.  IMHO Having to find a bullet list app or something to indent numbers is an inconvenience,  not a stopper.

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13 hours ago, DTLow said:

 

Definition of note - a brief record of points or ideas written down as an aid to memory, a short informal letter or written message

I agree "the editor is actually really buggy".  It's also limited in features.
My point is: the editor works for basic notes. For other work, I use other editors.

I think we can agree that lists should work. And tables. And copy and paste. I understand that you maybe don't use these features, but what''s your point here? If they are in the note editor, they should work. Why should I have to attach a word document to put a list or a table? Why on earth are you defending this? ???

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3 hours ago, dixonbruce said:

I understand that you maybe don't use these features

You're mistaken; these features and more have always been on the list of requirements for myself and the users I support. We produce reports and documentation on a regular basis; it's part of our jobs.

>> what''s your point here? 

This is how I get the job done.
Please share with us any alternate solutions, you use.

 

 

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31 minutes ago, DTLow said:

You're mistaken; these features and more have always been on the list of requirements for myself and the workers I support. We produce reports and documentation on a regular basis; it's part of our jobs.

Then I don't understand. Why do you say the editor is 'fine for basic use' if it isn't? 

31 minutes ago, DTLow said:

Evernote includes an editor that's fine for basic notes.
One thing to keep in mind is: This editor is not a replacement for a word processing app.
There are many complaints from users thinking the editor should do more.'

I don't know if anyone is asking for a complex word-processing app. Just that the included tools, you know, actually work. I guess that would be asking too much.

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17 minutes ago, dixonbruce said:

I guess that would be asking too much.

We can ask for features to be fixed and for features to be added.

I'm not letting deficiencies or bugs stop me from doing the job.

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Ok. So you agree that there is a problem with the editor, and that in fact it isn't 'fine for basic notes'.

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On 4/18/2018 at 6:39 AM, dixonbruce said:

Ok. So you agree that there is a problem with the editor, and that in fact it isn't 'fine for basic notes'.

I agree there are deficiencies and bugs with the Evernote editor.
I do not use it for work beyond basic notes.

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So basic notes in your case don't include lists or tables. And you don't copy and paste. Thanks for clearing that up.

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On 2018-04-18 at 6:46 AM, dixonbruce said:

So basic notes in your case don't include lists or tables. And you don't copy and paste.

There's no create table feature on my iPad.  There is a table feature on my Mac, but it's limited and has issues.
There is a basic list feature (bullets, #s)
Copy/Paste works, but formatting is often messed up in the underlying html code

>>Why should I have to attach a word document to put a list or a table?

As I pointed out, there is no create table feature on Evernote/IOS.  Word/Pages is one solution.

Beyond that,  it's your choice which editor/format to use for your work.
If the Evernote editor/format is working for you; its all good.
It often doesn't work for my needs so I use other editors/formats.  Any format files can be attached to a note.  Evernote works well with pdf files, image files, and office/iwork documents.

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On 4/17/2018 at 1:08 PM, CalS said:

I would not, being a people I thought I could vote.  I can get by with 10 notebooks and 500 tags.  So 250 and 100,000 seems to cover it.  But should EN decide to add more notebooks, fine by me.  :D

Not sure where this "poll" data  is coming from but would be nice to really find out instead of just assuming. I am ok with limited number of notebooks for sure. 

To me, like the "folder" structures in OS, notebooks are the old fashion way of organizing things. It is not how your brain works. Your brain categorizes things and they belong to more than 1 category by nature. Book Organized Mind by Daniel j. Levitin is a great book to read about how brain categories things,I highly recommend the book by the way.

Therefore, tagging is how your brain works naturally. Things belong to multiple categories which a tagging system allows you to do. And Evernote is your extended brain so it should be in line with its natural, instinctive and evolutionary methods of organizing things (for me at least) and do it better. 

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19 minutes ago, TK0047 said:

To me, like the "folder" structures in OS, notebooks are the old fashion way of organizing things. It is not how your brain works.

+1 

People conflate how their brain works with limitations that exist in paper and older digital filing systems.

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30 minutes ago, tavor said:

People conflate how their brain works with limitations that exist in paper and older digital filing systems.

That's true enough, but people who have long experience with such systems can, in a real sense, be said to have altered their brains to be comfortable with those systems. That familiarity is pretty powerful too.

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33 minutes ago, jefito said:

That's true enough, but people who have long experience with such systems can, in a real sense, be said to have altered their brains to be comfortable with those systems. That familiarity is pretty powerful too.

Good and valid point for sure.

Fax machines were familiar too at one point. :) I am not saying people should or must do it this way, but we all at some point need to try different methods or test our methods against others to see if they are still valid and applicable.

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6 hours ago, TK0047 said:

To me, like the "folder" structures in OS, notebooks are the old fashion way of organizing things.

Folders/Subfolders is old school, replaced by database technology, a more efficient method of organization.

Evernote provides two organization attributes for notes; Notebook and Tag.  
Both are note metadata; fields in the Note record, although each have different featuresets.

I'll follow up on your references; how the brain work is an interesting topic.
It may not be relevent to my use of Evernote. My requirement is to store my data, and retrieve it as required.

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12 minutes ago, DTLow said:

I'll follow up on your references; how the brain work is an interesting topic.

I would also recommend BrainChains by Theo Compernolle.

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Thanks, @TK0047. That's interesting info, and (instinctively, at least) seems right to me. I'm sure it's how my brain works. OTOH, as @jefito says, I've also trained it to think in terms of folders and hierarchical directories with one-to-one filing, to the extent that relying on tags alone feels scary and unfamiliar to it. I think I need to take some time and really create a tagging system for myself and try it out. I can't imagine not using notebooks; but I also recall the number of times I've had trouble figuring out in which notebook a note should reside. Thinking of folders as mere handy repositories and tags as the means of access to multi-relevance notes will probably help me make better use of Evernote. This thread has evolved into some interesting and useful conversation!

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41 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

Thanks, @TK0047. That's interesting info, and (instinctively, at least) seems right to me. I'm sure it's how my brain works. OTOH, as @jefito says, I've also trained it to think in terms of folders and hierarchical directories with one-to-one filing, to the extent that relying on tags alone feels scary and unfamiliar to it. I think I need to take some time and really create a tagging system for myself and try it out. I can't imagine not using notebooks; but I also recall the number of times I've had trouble figuring out in which notebook a note should reside. Thinking of folders as mere handy repositories and tags as the means of access to multi-relevance notes will probably help me make better use of Evernote. This thread has evolved into some interesting and useful conversation!

Something to consider - think of notebooks not as traditional subject matter folders, but as access categories:

  • synchronized notebook
  • local notebook
  • offline notebook
  • shared notebooks as necessary
  • if consolidating task mgmt in EN as opposed to using a separate task mgmt app, maybe a ToDo sync'ed notebook

And then use tags for subject matter categorizations. In this type of system, which notebook a note goes to is determined by how (or who) it's going to be accessed. And you no longer have to decide between exclusive 'subject' categories for a note.

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On 4/17/2018 at 3:54 PM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

.But maybe posting there would be worthwhile.

Thank you, but I'd rather that Evernote approached its customers with questions. E.g.,

Do you prefer notebooks or tags?

Would you like more notebooks?

Would prefer that Evernote roll out a buggy rebuild of its Chrome Web Clipper or would you happily wait until most of the problems are ironed out in beta?

 

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On 17.4.2018 at 7:08 PM, CalS said:

I would not, being a people I thought I could vote.  I can get by with 10 notebooks and 500 tags.  So 250 and 100,000 seems to cover it.  But should EN decide to add more notebooks, fine by me.  :D

I‘m using notebooks only to share a group of notes with others. Currently I‘ve 8 notebooks and about 240 Tags and 4.000 notes.

No other use case for notebooks for me, organizing notes is done via Tags.

this is how I use notebooks, others may use them different, sure and absolutely OK :-)

Just to say: the ‚number of notebook‘ feature discussion is waste of time for ME - annotating PDFs is much more important for ME. Different users, different priorities. EN does the job for many people I‘d say and that drivers ENs revenue.

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12 hours ago, stocky2605 said:

Just to say: the ‚number of notebook‘ feature discussion is waste of time for ME - annotating PDFs is much more important for ME. Different users, different priorities. 

Amen. 

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19 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

This thread has evolved into some interesting and useful conversation!

Agreed. I like it when the discussions are not just complaints, there are solutions, ideas and debates instead.

8 hours ago, stocky2605 said:

Just to say: the ‚number of notebook‘ feature discussion is waste of time for ME - annotating PDFs is much more important for ME. Different users, different priorities

Number of notebook has never been an issue for me either. I want the old PDF viewer back (for the Windows app) more than anything else. Top priority for me.

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19 hours ago, Etonreve said:

Thank you, but I'd rather that Evernote approached its customers with questions. E.g.,

Do you prefer notebooks or tags?

Would you like more notebooks?

Would prefer that Evernote roll out a buggy rebuild of its Chrome Web Clipper or would you happily wait until most of the problems are ironed out in beta?

That would definitely be an improvement. Of course, there are the feature-request feedback forums here, and they're some help. But it would be even better if EN would post questions like these in those forums. Though I bet they wouldn't ask that last one. :D

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20 hours ago, tavor said:

Something to consider - think of notebooks not as traditional subject matter folders, but as access categories:

  • synchronized notebook
  • local notebook
  • offline notebook
  • shared notebooks as necessary
  • if consolidating task mgmt in EN as opposed to using a separate task mgmt app, maybe a ToDo sync'ed notebook

And then use tags for subject matter categorizations. In this type of system, which notebook a note goes to is determined by how (or who) it's going to be accessed. And you no longer have to decide between exclusive 'subject' categories for a note.

 

9 hours ago, stocky2605 said:

I‘m using notebooks only to share a group of notes with others. Currently I‘ve 8 notebooks and about 240 Tags and 4.000 notes.

No other use case for notebooks for me, organizing notes is done via Tags.

this is how I use notebooks, others may use them different, sure and absolutely OK :-)

Just to say: the ‚number of notebook‘ feature discussion is waste of time for ME - annotating PDFs is much more important for ME. Different users, different priorities. EN does the job for many people I‘d say and that drivers ENs revenue.

One thing this thread is helping to bring out (at this point) is the flexibility that is built into Evernote's structure, allowing people to make use of its features in ways that serve them best. I appreciate these suggestions.

For my use, though, since it's just me and my odd little research projects (and personal or household needs), sharing doesn't come up. I also don't need local/offline notebooks very much, since one thing I do need is to be able to capture ideas or written material with my phone "in the field" (a library, a café, the breakfast table...) and then work on it later on my desktop or laptop; or start an idea at my desktop, and work with it on my phone when I'm out and about. So I suspect I'll always want to use notebooks for subject or project-related categorization, but develop a better tag system for the not-insignificant number of notes that are useful in more than one such category.

For all its problems, especially with its editors, Evernote does make it possible for us to organize our materials in these varying, customized ways. Just not in hierarchical notebooks ... but that lack is precisely what will "force" me to make more adroit use of tagging.

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40 minutes ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

So I suspect I'll always want to use notebooks for subject or project-related categorization, but develop a better tag system for the not-insignificant number of notes that are useful in more than one such category.

Seems like using two different organizational structures to organize your notes could get frustrating. But if you can make it work, more power to you.

You're probably already aware of this, but just in case, tags can be organized hierarchically as "pseudo-notebooks".

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21 hours ago, Etonreve said:

Thank you, but I'd rather that Evernote approached its customers with questions. E.g.,

Do you prefer notebooks or tags?

Would you like more notebooks?

Would prefer that Evernote roll out a buggy rebuild of its Chrome Web Clipper or would you happily wait until most of the problems are ironed out in beta?

 

Uh, ok, sure, I'll take a swing...

Do you prefer notebooks or tags? Yes.

Would you like more notebooks? Yes. [A magic elephant tusk appears; you give it a rub, and repeat your wish, and a genie appears, and says "Your wish is granted. You now have unlimited notebooks, and as a bonus, we're throwing in unlimited stacks. Unfortunately, there's no way to organize them into arbitrary trees. And you're out of wishes. Be careful what you wish for."]

Would prefer that Evernote roll out a buggy rebuild of its Chrome Web Clipper or would you happily wait until most of the problems are ironed out in beta? So when did you stop beating your dog, anyways?

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3 hours ago, Dave-in-Decatur said:

do need is to be able to capture ideas or written material with my phone "in the field" (a library, a café, the breakfast table...) and then work on it later on my desktop or laptop; or start an idea at my desktop, and work with it on my phone when I'm out and about.

A way to address this is to have an Inbox notebook, kind of a clearing house, a place to put notes which can be addressed when back at the desktop.  Then you can detail and tag as need be,. 

Also, you can create another notebook to ensure quick offline access to certain notes.  I named mine Quick, catchy, eh? 

Inbox for me is typically empty and Quick rarely has more than 10 notes, typically a revolving set depending upon what is going on.  Everything else of merit is pretty much in one notebook (I also have Joke and Receipt notebooks, which could be in the main notebook but the separation helps with searches).  Tag and text is how I find things.  FWIW.

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On 2018-04-20 at 9:09 AM, Dave-in-Decatur said:

notes that are useful in more than one such category.

 

On 2018-04-19 at 12:54 PM, tavor said:
  • synchronized notebook
  • local notebook
  • offline notebook
  • shared notebooks as necessary
  • if consolidating task mgmt in EN as opposed to using a separate task mgmt app, maybe a ToDo sync'ed notebook

I consider every note a candidate for multiple categories; so I use tags

I also use notebooks for the sync'd/local, private/shared, offline feature (minimal).
Also default inbox notebook(s).

I use Evernote for task management.  Again, any note may be actionable so an !Actionable tag is a better solution for me.

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On 4/20/2018 at 3:45 PM, CalS said:

A way to address this is to have an Inbox notebook, kind of a clearing house, a place to put notes which can be addressed when back at the desktop.  Then you can detail and tag as need be,. 

Also, you can create another notebook to ensure quick offline access to certain notes.  I named mine Quick, catchy, eh? 

Inbox for me is typically empty and Quick rarely has more than 10 notes, typically a revolving set depending upon what is going on.  Everything else of merit is pretty much in one notebook (I also have Joke and Receipt notebooks, which could be in the main notebook but the separation helps with searches).  Tag and text is how I find things.  FWIW.

Yes, I call mine "Scrapbook." I created it when I first started using EN, but I soon found that my established work habits (note gray beard; not going to change much) had me making new notebooks as well.

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There's always hope...  ;)

download.jpg.a41e3ce2d5473ee25d987a06fe635a00.jpg

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47 minutes ago, CalS said:

There's always hope...  ;)

download.jpg.a41e3ce2d5473ee25d987a06fe635a00.jpg

Nobody expects the Spaniel Inquisition...

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30 minutes ago, jefito said:

Nobody expects the Spaniel Inquisition...

Gag!  

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