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Ryq G

Software designed for real people

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yI'm using Evernote on the mac.  Latest op system.  Latest versions.  I just even paid for an upgrade so I'm not using Evernote for free.  Sometimes things don't work as expected and I manage to figure them out.  I'm neither the dumbest nor smartest computer user.  I don't program.  But I've put together networks, designed web pages, replaced hard drives, upgraded memory, understand ASCII codes, and can throw together a half decent spreadsheet. 

Today I created a new notebook in Evernote.  It appeared on the top of the list and I wanted to move it to a stack.  I tried rightclicking, I looked at the menus in the application, I tried to drag and drop.  I can't figure it out.  This should be simple.  I try changing the views.  I must be some sort of an idiot. I can't be the only one who needs to do this. 

Question 1:

I'm going to stop and label this as Question 1:  How do I move the notebook into a stack?  I'm a bit frustrated as this should be intuitive. 

So

I click on Help. In Help, I search for the following:

  • Move Notebook into Stack
    • (One article is relevant: How to organize Notebooks into stacks.  Perhaps I forgot to click my heels together 3 times.)
  • Change stack for notebook
  • Move notebook
  • Organize notebooks
  • Put notebook into stack
  • Add stack to notebook

Absolutely Nothing.  I start to question if I've had a stroke and lost my vocabulary.  Well, I'm glad I just upgraded.  I can now get support by email.  How do I contact them?  I somehow find my way to a contact support button.  YEA!  I'm there.  Forms work so well for customers because the company knows how to set up options that meet every possible need. My options are:

  • Account Settings
  • Installation
  • Technical Issues

Those are the only problems all these users could have?  Wow.  What great software!  Seeing that I'm the only one having trouble knowing how to do something, I explore all of these options. Do not pass go and do not collect $200 because each one is a dead end

Back to Help.  This time I select Help and Learning...there are a few pages.  There are two ways of providing Help.  1) Organize it in a structured and comprehensive manner, and 2) Randomly display information that pertains to individuals by showing the answers to their particular questions.  The second one is filled with gaps and every answer is so specific to a particular person as to be worthless to others.  Guess which one is used.

I find another contact support at the bottom.  Do I have to click my heels together three times?  Take the pill recommended by the White Rabbit?

Guess where I am again?  It's like old home week.  The form with three options.  Let's try Technical:

Attachments, Installation or Notes....well none, but I'll try notes

Annotations, TAgs, or Tables

I go through ALL the menus.  Nothing.  Finally, I select Deactivate Account.

Guess what....a form again.

This time, it allows me to email my question.

Rhetorical Question 2:

  • WTF?
  • How can a company survive when does this?
  • Why have I not some survivalist group?
  • If a company sets up a support system like this, what does it think of its customers?
  • Is there a camera looking at me?  Is this one of those crazy TV shows where they make someone do all sorts of things and then we all laugh?
  • Was this designed by the same people who designed the tortures for Sisyphus and Tantalus?
  • Has the government declared that businesses should no longer meet customer needs?

I hope the software engineers and support team never decide to build cars.....let's see car too fast how do I slow it down.....or build medical devices......how do I adjust this to avoid diabetic coma?

I may have missed or been a bit inaccurate in describing each step above.  Hell, it's even possible I missed a bright red flashing "email us button."  But if I did so, others will have the same problem.  And during this I was trying to find an answer, not 100% focused on tracking every keystroke.   My sarcasm/attempts at wit may detract from the problem, but we are all entitled to something to help us manage frustration.  Why do some companies design software that is cryptic and non-intuitive?  And why is it they put up barriers for customers so they have no idea what the customer needs or wants?

I'm sure many loyalists will pick this apart keystroke by keystroke.  If it meets their needs it must be good for everyone.  They will find errors I've made.  And rather than admitting that everything has good and bad features (I have used Evernote and find it helps me keep things organized...and most of the time it does what is expected), they may treat this as if I just committed a horrible crime against them.  Instead of being willing to say we love it but it has it's flaws, I know the ad hominum attacks will soon begin.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ryq G said:

Question 1:  How do I move the notebook into a stack? 

The Notebook Stack functions are accessed using the Notebook Page5aa8ff147d180_ScreenShot2018-03-14at03_51_39.png.83c36c330e177445079f04b5bcba21b7.png

On my Mac, I click on the notebook icon to switch to the notebook page

I then right click on a notebook for the stack functions

 

I can also use View > Notebooks to switch to the notebook page

5aa8ffaa2cd51_ScreenShot2018-03-14at03_54_42.png.c593279bc7975aec463cf5079b2c78f5.png

 

I moved the discussion to the Mac forum

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On 3/14/2018 at 12:42 AM, Ryq G said:

I had to repost this.  My sentiments exactly. Whose logic is Evernote  designed for. I'm absolutely lost with "stacks" can be added to "stacks", notes can be added to notebooks. stacks can be added to notebooks, but notebooks can't be added to notebooks. I love the idea of an Evernote that would be simpler to us and that syncs from desktop to ipad to iphone. I spend more time trying to insert something or find something that I gain from the tool. Please help me off the ledge. I do not wish to go back to the evil MS Notebook.

 

yI'm using Evernote on the mac.  Latest op system.  Latest versions.  I just even paid for an upgrade so I'm not using Evernote for free.  Sometimes things don't work as expected and I manage to figure them out.  I'm neither the dumbest nor smartest computer user.  I don't program.  But I've put together networks, designed web pages, replaced hard drives, upgraded memory, understand ASCII codes, and can throw together a half decent spreadsheet. 

Today I created a new notebook in Evernote.  It appeared on the top of the list and I wanted to move it to a stack.  I tried rightclicking, I looked at the menus in the application, I tried to drag and drop.  I can't figure it out.  This should be simple.  I try changing the views.  I must be some sort of an idiot. I can't be the only one who needs to do this. 

Question 1:

I'm going to stop and label this as Question 1:  How do I move the notebook into a stack?  I'm a bit frustrated as this should be intuitive. 

So

I click on Help. In Help, I search for the following:

  • Move Notebook into Stack
    • (One article is relevant: How to organize Notebooks into stacks.  Perhaps I forgot to click my heels together 3 times.)
  • Change stack for notebook
  • Move notebook
  • Organize notebooks
  • Put notebook into stack
  • Add stack to notebook

Absolutely Nothing.  I start to question if I've had a stroke and lost my vocabulary.  Well, I'm glad I just upgraded.  I can now get support by email.  How do I contact them?  I somehow find my way to a contact support button.  YEA!  I'm there.  Forms work so well for customers because the company knows how to set up options that meet every possible need. My options are:

  • Account Settings
  • Installation
  • Technical Issues

Those are the only problems all these users could have?  Wow.  What great software!  Seeing that I'm the only one having trouble knowing how to do something, I explore all of these options. Do not pass go and do not collect $200 because each one is a dead end

Back to Help.  This time I select Help and Learning...there are a few pages.  There are two ways of providing Help.  1) Organize it in a structured and comprehensive manner, and 2) Randomly display information that pertains to individuals by showing the answers to their particular questions.  The second one is filled with gaps and every answer is so specific to a particular person as to be worthless to others.  Guess which one is used.

I find another contact support at the bottom.  Do I have to click my heels together three times?  Take the pill recommended by the White Rabbit?

Guess where I am again?  It's like old home week.  The form with three options.  Let's try Technical:

Attachments, Installation or Notes....well none, but I'll try notes

Annotations, TAgs, or Tables

I go through ALL the menus.  Nothing.  Finally, I select Deactivate Account.

Guess what....a form again.

This time, it allows me to email my question.

Rhetorical Question 2:

  • WTF?
  • How can a company survive when does this?
  • Why have I not some survivalist group?
  • If a company sets up a support system like this, what does it think of its customers?
  • Is there a camera looking at me?  Is this one of those crazy TV shows where they make someone do all sorts of things and then we all laugh?
  • Was this designed by the same people who designed the tortures for Sisyphus and Tantalus?
  • Has the government declared that businesses should no longer meet customer needs?

I hope the software engineers and support team never decide to build cars.....let's see car too fast how do I slow it down.....or build medical devices......how do I adjust this to avoid diabetic coma?

I may have missed or been a bit inaccurate in describing each step above.  Hell, it's even possible I missed a bright red flashing "email us button."  But if I did so, others will have the same problem.  And during this I was trying to find an answer, not 100% focused on tracking every keystroke.   My sarcasm/attempts at wit may detract from the problem, but we are all entitled to something to help us manage frustration.  Why do some companies design software that is cryptic and non-intuitive?  And why is it they put up barriers for customers so they have no idea what the customer needs or wants?

I'm sure many loyalists will pick this apart keystroke by keystroke.  If it meets their needs it must be good for everyone.  They will find errors I've made.  And rather than admitting that everything has good and bad features (I have used Evernote and find it helps me keep things organized...and most of the time it does what is expected), they may treat this as if I just committed a horrible crime against them.  Instead of being willing to say we love it but it has it's flaws, I know the ad hominum attacks will soon begin.

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, LifeonSmithLake said:

I'm absolutely lost with "stacks" can be added to "stacks", notes can be added to notebooks. stacks can be added to notebooks, but notebooks can't be added to notebooks. 

If it's too complicated, just stick with Notes.
Some of us like to organize our notes into categories.  I use Tags; other people use Notebooks.

Again, if it's too complicated, just stick with Notebooks.
Some of us like to organize our Notebooks; for example a Stack of Notebooks.
 

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I had basically made that decision. OneNote is so much more intuitive.  When I can make the time, I'll play with Evernote some more. Michael Hyatt raves of Evernote and I'm trying to love it too. Just can't get there. I've got 100s of notes and 15 notebooks started and each time I get back in to add or look for something it's like I've never been there.  And the webclipper is more finicky than a Jaguar. 

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I feel sorry for any small software company, especially if the company has a product similar to what the giants have or can add.  A small company has to produce something that is not just equivalent, but far superior to what the giants produce.  It also has to listen to the users and create a sense of loyalty.  Of course it can create a niche product where the revenue produced isn't even noticed by the big guys.

As much as I try to fight for the underdog, or do the right thing, the easiest path is to often to go to the big guys.  It's often easier, takes less time, and less expensive.  In battle, one can't easily assume that those who have been on your side will stay on your side.  The loyalty may be wide, but may not be very deep.

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1 minute ago, Ryq G said:

I feel sorry for any small software company, especially if the company has a product similar to what the giants have or can add.  A small company has to produce something that is not just equivalent, but far superior to what the giants produce.  It also has to listen to the users and create a sense of loyalty.  Of course it can create a niche product where the revenue produced isn't even noticed by the big guys.

As much as I try to fight for the underdog, or do the right thing, the easiest path is to often to go to the big guys.  It's often easier, takes less time, and less expensive.  In battle, one can't easily assume that those who have been on your side will stay on your side.  The loyalty may be wide, but may not be very deep.

Who's the 'small company' in this context?  Evernote have 200M+ users as against Office and 800M - but I have Office,  and I prefer Evernote;  so an office user isn't always an Evernote user...

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16 hours ago, DTLow said:

If it's too complicated, just stick with Notes.

I think this completely misses the point. The problem is that Evernote Mac's UX is terribly designed. You can't drag and drop notebooks/tags without diving into another screen. You can't click on a tag and simply search within it. You can delete a notebook (rarely performed action) from the context menu, yet you can't rename it or move it (common actions). And the list goes on...

For comparison, try Notion.so and you will see how well designed software functions. If Evernote doesn't start improving the user experience, they are going to lose out long term.

Edit: certain things are very well implemented in Evernote Mac (annotation, searching within notebooks, the new tables, etc.). My problem is that they don't seem to be putting in any effort to bring improvements from Evernote Windows into the Mac version. It's as if the teams are working in complete isolation.

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I agree with everything OP said. Great rant. I am also a paid user, and gave up long ago trying to contact support about anything. 

It's almost as if some companies don't want to hear from, or have any contact with, their customers. 

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2 hours ago, kd01 said:

It's almost as if some companies don't want to hear from, or have any contact with, their customers. 

Maybe they could create a User forum to discuss issues and post feature requests.

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1 hour ago, kd01 said:

It's almost as if some companies don't want to hear from, or have any contact with, their customers. 

That's been my experience with Evernote. The developers ignore most of the posts in the feedback forums.

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On 5/15/2018 at 1:08 PM, DTLow said:

Maybe they could create a User forum to discuss issues and post feature requests.

I'm guessing that's sarcasm directed at me. Not appreciated at all.

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